It?s time for GoTro to go

[preachermatt83]

I?ve never seen more regression in hitters. Rowdy, Hatcher, and virtually everyone else we have are much poorer hitters now than they were when they got here. It?s not possible for a top 10 program with the best facilities in college baseball to be this inept at the plate. He?s a scout. He?s not a freaking hitting coach.

[Rex54]

Ok

[msstate7]

3 things...
1. I'm certainly disappointed in our offense so far.
2. It is too early to say these hitters have regressed. Still lots of baseball to be played.
3. It wasn't too long ago that we all prayed Gautreau wouldn't leave.

ETA... and we showed a good sign last night imo with much more lift on the ball. Maybe we about to get going some.

ETA part 2... since when did I start defending the coaches? Haha

[BrunswickDawg]

3 things...
1. I'm certainly disappointed in our offense so far.
2. It is too early to say these hitters have regressed. Still lots of baseball to be played.
3. It wasn't too long ago that we all prayed Gautreau wouldn't leave.

ETA... and we showed a good sign last night imo with much more lift on the ball. Maybe we about to get going some.

ETA part 2... since when did I start defending the coaches? Haha

Because Gautreau has a track record of success. The majority of the quality baseball posters here said offense was going to be an issue this year - and it has been our weakest aspect.

[basedog]

Too early to say he needs to go! Hell maybe they aren't good enough hitters, it happens all the time.

[Thick]

I thought Lemonis is pretty involved with hitting too?

[Hambone]

I’ve never met a more negative preacher in my life!

Bet your sermons are a joy

[Todd4State]

Firing Gautreau would be a mistake. We're recruiting better hitters by the way- with more power.

[Homedawg]

Um no.

[preachermatt83]

Too soon?? He’s been here 4 years. This is Mississippi state. When have we been in the top half of the league hitting under GoTro? A track record of success??? Where???

[somebodyshotmypaw]

Too soon?? He’s been here 4 years. This is Mississippi state. When have we been in the top half of the league hitting under GoTro? A track record of success??? Where???

I will say it is too soon. I personally think it’s a mistake to fire him on April 2 during the middle of an SEC series. I think a change, if needed, should occur after the season. If you wait until the season is over, you will have the entire 2021 season to use in the evaluation of him. So yes, it’s too soon to make that decision now.

[Cowbell]

Too soon?? He?s been here 4 years. This is Mississippi state. When have we been in the top half of the league hitting under GoTro? A track record of success??? Where???
Do you remember the year we went to the college World Series? Oh wait... two years.

[Cowbell]

3 things...
1. I'm certainly disappointed in our offense so far.
2. It is too early to say these hitters have regressed. Still lots of baseball to be played.
3. It wasn't too long ago that we all prayed Gautreau wouldn't leave.

ETA... and we showed a good sign last night imo with much more lift on the ball. Maybe we about to get going some.

ETA part 2... since when did I start defending the coaches? Haha

Kentucky's tram ERA is lower than ours which tells me if we can win this series we are improving.

[Gutter Cobreh]

Too soon?? He’s been here 4 years. This is Mississippi state. When have we been in the top half of the league hitting under GoTro? A track record of success??? Where???

I'll tell you what's too soon... you starting another thread with the same topic 6 days ago apart! Why not just resurrect that one?

Do you recycle sermons that fast?

GoTro isn't going anywhere. Our players need to learn plate discipline and the hitting will improve. He can't tell them when and when not to swing.

[BeardoMSU]

I'll tell you what's too soon... you starting another thread with the same topic 6 days ago apart! Why not just resurrect that one?

Do you recycle sermons that fast?

GoTro isn't going anywhere. Our players need to learn plate discipline and the hitting will improve. He can't tell them when and when not to swing.

How dare you question an established baseball savant, lol.

[Really Clark?]

Too soon?? He’s been here 4 years. This is Mississippi state. When have we been in the top half of the league hitting under GoTro? A track record of success??? Where???

We had the highest avg in the league in 2019

[Rex54]

We had the highest avg in the league in 2019

"Some men you just can't reach."
- Captain

[MetEdDawg]

Too soon?? He’s been here 4 years. This is Mississippi state. When have we been in the top half of the league hitting under GoTro? A track record of success??? Where???

Well in 2019 we led the conference in batting average. So there's that.

[Homedawg]

I will say it is too soon. I personally think it’s a mistake to fire him on April 2 during the middle of an SEC series. I think a change, if needed, should occur after the season. If you wait until the season is over, you will have the entire 2021 season to use in the evaluation of him. So yes, it’s too soon to make that decision now.

Maybe just maybe, you should see what he's done recruiting and hitting wise and go from there. We put more money in scholarships in pitching. As we should. Go tro as the op put it is a huge asset. But not shocked he doesn't know

[Homedawg]

Well in 2019 we led the conference in batting average. So there's that.

But but but you'd ruin a bad post....

[BeardoMSU]

We had the highest avg in the league in 2019

When you think the Earth is 6000 years old, every year equates to 1 Billion years to normal humans, so to him, 2019 was literally lifetimes ago. It's kinda like dog years vs human years. Don't blame him; it's not his fault**

[Todd4State]

I mean it's not like no one on this board was saying that offense wouldn't be an issue.

We have upperclassmen that are mostly contact oriented hitters who have a history of being streaky and most of our power hitters are basically freshmen.

There is no Mangum, Rooker, etc. to carry the offense.

And as I said we are also in the middle of transitioning how we build our team.

[BayouDawg]

I knew hitting would struggle this year but maybe not this bad.

But while we are piling on coaches who the hell coaches our fielding? That is who needs to be on the hot seat.

[trojandawg]

Too soon?? He?s been here 4 years. This is Mississippi state. When have we been in the top half of the league hitting under GoTro? A track record of success??? Where???

He?s been one of the best pieces MSU has added post Cohen. Our hitting under Cohen was always atrocious playing too much small ball. The one good thing Cann did was bring him in. Our hitting improved big time from what it was. It?s just a down year but we still hit better than we used to.

[Todd4State]

I knew hitting would struggle this year but maybe not this bad.

But while we are piling on coaches who the hell coaches our fielding? That is who needs to be on the hot seat.

Yeah. That's been a big issue lately and I have no idea why. And it's seniors that are having the issue. And those guys have played the outfield before. It's like no one communicates out there.

And it's like Rowdey is some sacred cow. He could be hitting below the Mendoza Line and dropping fly balls left and right and yet he is never ever pulled from the lineup.

[Coach34]

Rowdey is a career .300 hitter. He is a sacred cow for this team

[Rex54]

Rowdey currently has a higher OBP than Kamren James. Some of you people just like to post nonsense to see words by your name. Bench Rowdey? What a stupid ass thing to say.

[Cooterpoot]

We desperately need to get hitters on campus. Preferably guys from out of state.

[Really Clark?]

Good lord people, Rowdy is 8 for 18 in the last 5 games, all SEC opponents. Nobody in their right mind pulls someone hitting .444 with a HR and Double in his last 5 games and complain about our piss poor offense.

[Saltydog]

I’ve never met a more negative preacher in my life!

Bet your sermons are a joy

Fire and brimstone I?m sure....

[BrunswickDawg]

I knew hitting would struggle this year but maybe not this bad.

But while we are piling on coaches who the hell coaches our fielding? That is who needs to be on the hot seat.

Going into SEC play, our numbers on offense were better in almost every metric than last year - AVG, Hits, HR OPS, OBP, SB were up and Ks were down

[BayouDawg]

Going into SEC play, our numbers on offense were better in almost every metric than last year - AVG, Hits, HR OPS, OBP, SB were up and Ks were down

So weve been bad on offense the last 2 years?

[BrunswickDawg]

So weve been bad on offense the last 2 years?

To me it shows how some are blowing things out of proportion. As others have pointed out - over the past decade for some reason MSU has started out slow offensively and gotten better through SEC play. It looks that way again - Rowdey being a good example already since he struggled to bat .200 in OOC and is 8 for 18 in SEC games.

[basedog]

Winning > Batting Averages

[BayouDawg]

To me it shows how some are blowing things out of proportion. As others have pointed out - over the past decade for some reason MSU has started out slow offensively and gotten better through SEC play. It looks that way again - Rowdey being a good example already since he struggled to bat .200 in OOC and is 8 for 18 in SEC games.

I gotcha. Our fielding is the dumbfounding thing to me.

[Rex54]

To me it shows how some are blowing things out of proportion .

Too many shrill catladies with knee jerk opinions

[preachermatt83]

When you think the Earth is 6000 years old, every year equates to 1 Billion years to normal humans, so to him, 2019 was literally lifetimes ago. It's kinda like dog years vs human years. Don't blame him; it's not his fault**

Umm, I don’t think the earth is 6000 years old. Nice try though.

[ShotgunDawg]

Hitting is almost impossible to really coach, so I'm not going to blame the hitting coach much. Hitting coaches are hired to be fired. Be a pitching coach if you want a long career.

What I will criticize, however, is that we seem to either recruit a 1st round caliber hitters that will never sniff campus and the replace them with left handed bad hitters. It's lazy in many ways because 1st rounders are easy to spot. It takes time and patience to find the right fit.

In our evaluation process, we've got to get better and finding the 3rd-5th round HS position player that will end up in school and we can develop into a 1st rounder.

We did that with Westburg, Foscue, and Rooker but we've signed too many Blaze Jordan's, Austin Hendricks, James Woods types and missed out on the 3rd-5th rounder due to that.

Our evaluation process needs to be refined

[Coach34]

Shotgun nailed it on position players

[BeardoMSU]

Umm, I don’t think the earth is 6000 years old. Nice try though.

I was joking, Preach.

[maroonmania]

In our evaluation process, we've got to get better and finding the 3rd-5th round HS position player that will end up in school and we can develop into a 1st rounder.

We did that with Westburg, Foscue, and Rooker but we've signed too many Blaze Jordan's, Austin Hendricks, James Woods types and missed out on the 3rd-5th rounder due to that.

Our evaluation process needs to be refined

Yep, we need to be much better at understanding the mentality of the position players we recruit. If I remember correctly Blaze Jordan fell to the 3rd round but probably would have signed with a team if he had gone anywhere in the Top 5 rounds (or even 10 rounds if it was a normal draft). Those players don't even need to be thought of as real signees (assuming they are projected anywhere near the top end of the draft). We need to get some guys that are high quality position player recruits that aren't going to avoid coming to school unless they get true life changing bonus money normally only found in the first couple of rounds of the draft. We are successful doing it with pitchers so you would think we could do it with position players.

[Todd4State]

Hitting is almost impossible to really coach, so I'm not going to blame the hitting coach much. Hitting coaches are hired to be fired. Be a pitching coach if you want a long career.

What I will criticize, however, is that we seem to either recruit a 1st round caliber hitters that will never sniff campus and the replace them with left handed bad hitters. It's lazy in many ways because 1st rounders are easy to spot. It takes time and patience to find the right fit.

In our evaluation process, we've got to get better and finding the 3rd-5th round HS position player that will end up in school and we can develop into a 1st rounder.

We did that with Westburg, Foscue, and Rooker but we've signed too many Blaze Jordan's, Austin Hendricks, James Woods types and missed out on the 3rd-5th rounder due to that.

Our evaluation process needs to be refined

I wonder how much of that is because of scholarship money that we have tied up in certain other players.

Overall agree.

[preachermatt83]

I was joking, Preach.

Lol, 10/4 buddy. I thought we were about to have a very good debate.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

Hitting is almost impossible to really coach, so I'm not going to blame the hitting coach much. Hitting coaches are hired to be fired. Be a pitching coach if you want a long career.

What I will criticize, however, is that we seem to either recruit a 1st round caliber hitters that will never sniff campus and the replace them with left handed bad hitters. It's lazy in many ways because 1st rounders are easy to spot. It takes time and patience to find the right fit.

In our evaluation process, we've got to get better and finding the 3rd-5th round HS position player that will end up in school and we can develop into a 1st rounder.

We did that with Westburg, Foscue, and Rooker but we've signed too many Blaze Jordan's, Austin Hendricks, James Woods types and missed out on the 3rd-5th rounder due to that.

Our evaluation process needs to be refined

Yep. It?s not about signing the best players. It?s about signing the best players among the group that will actually choose the college route.

[Johnson85]

Rowdey is a career .300 hitter. He is a sacred cow for this team

Saying Rowdy is a .300 hitter undersells him. He'd be safe even if he was just a .300 hitter, but it seems he's a shitty batter through sometime around the start of April and then a good batter from then on. If that holds for this year, then benching him would be worse than benching a .300 hitter.

[Commercecomet24]

Hitting is almost impossible to really coach, so I'm not going to blame the hitting coach much. Hitting coaches are hired to be fired. Be a pitching coach if you want a long career.

What I will criticize, however, is that we seem to either recruit a 1st round caliber hitters that will never sniff campus and the replace them with left handed bad hitters. It's lazy in many ways because 1st rounders are easy to spot. It takes time and patience to find the right fit.

In our evaluation process, we've got to get better and finding the 3rd-5th round HS position player that will end up in school and we can develop into a 1st rounder.

We did that with Westburg, Foscue, and Rooker but we've signed too many Blaze Jordan's, Austin Hendricks, James Woods types and missed out on the 3rd-5th rounder due to that.

Our evaluation process needs to be refined

Very well said, agree completely.

[Really Clark?]

Saying Rowdy is a .300 hitter undersells him. He'd be safe even if he was just a .300 hitter, but it seems he's a shitty batter through sometime around the start of April and then a good batter from then on. If that holds for this year, then benching him would be worse than benching a .300 hitter.

I think with the track record, to me Rowdy seems to be the type that almost treats the first part of the season as spring training and once SEC play gets started he zero’s in and hits at a really high pace.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Hitting is almost impossible to really coach, so I'm not going to blame the hitting coach much. Hitting coaches are hired to be fired. Be a pitching coach if you want a long career.

What I will criticize, however, is that we seem to either recruit a 1st round caliber hitters that will never sniff campus and the replace them with left handed bad hitters. It's lazy in many ways because 1st rounders are easy to spot. It takes time and patience to find the right fit.

In our evaluation process, we've got to get better and finding the 3rd-5th round HS position player that will end up in school and we can develop into a 1st rounder.

We did that with Westburg, Foscue, and Rooker but we've signed too many Blaze Jordan's, Austin Hendricks, James Woods types and missed out on the 3rd-5th rounder due to that.

Our evaluation process needs to be refined

Hi Shotgun...

(1) Could it be that some kids just out-grew their 13 year-old body and became 1st rounders. Like Riley Austin, he went from collegiate Pete Young 2.0 to a Forgetaboutit 1st Rounder.
(2) Could it also bet that nobody get's the big body boys. The 5-11, 190-lbs hitter seems to be norm in college baseball. There are bigger boys, but the typical is 5-11 to 5-10 player. Even the top-10 hitters in the SEC by average have the composite size of 6-0 199.
(3) Another issue that the bigger boys share is that they are upper classmen and they were statistically no-great as Underclassmen, like Rooker. Elko is the biggest in my top-10, he was not even a starter until his 3rd year
(4) The top-10 guys for HR in the SEC, the average player is 5-10 193, biggest kid is 6-2 220 from Alabama

A question: How come pitchers are giants in contrast. The SEC has 6-6 and 6-7 pitchers and the Peyton Plumee size of 6-3 220 is the norm. But Plumlee is a giant as a hitter. Growing up, the best pitcher is usually the best everything. Seems that there are lots of legit power 1B/3B and RF all pitching. Seems like college baseball is wasting lots of Thigpens and McCays. Guys like KC Hunt (6-3) should keep on hitting and get monster big.

[ShotgunDawg]

Hi Shotgun...

(1) Could it be that some kids just out-grew their 13 year-old body and became 1st rounders. Like Riley Austin, he went from collegiate Pete Young 2.0 to a Forgetaboutit 1st Rounder.
(2) Could it also bet that nobody get's the big body boys. The 5-11, 190-lbs hitter seems to be norm in college baseball. There are bigger boys, but the typical is 5-11 to 5-10 player. Even the top-10 hitters in the SEC by average have the composite size of 6-0 199.
(3) Another issue that the bigger boys share is that they are upper classmen and they were statistically no-great as Underclassmen, like Rooker. Elko is the biggest in my top-10, he was not even a starter until his 3rd year
(4) The top-10 guys for HR in the SEC, the average player is 5-10 193, biggest kid is 6-2 220 from Alabama

A question: How come pitchers are giants in contrast. The SEC has 6-6 and 6-7 pitchers and the Peyton Plumee size of 6-3 220 is the norm. But Plumlee is a giant as a hitter. Growing up, the best pitcher is usually the best everything. Seems that there are lots of legit power 1B/3B and RF all pitching. Seems like college baseball is wasting lots of Thigpens and McCays. Guys like KC Hunt (6-3) should keep on hitting and get monster big.

A lot to unpack here & I'll address everything point by point:

1. Yes, but we're paying these guys good money to evaluate body types. It's hard, but that's the game. If you can't evaluate young bodies & where they'll go in the future, then you're not cut out to be an SEC recruiter.

2. Shorter guys are often better hitters as they have shorter extremities & thus more compact swings on a typical basis which makes getting to velocity easier. There are more Hall of Fame hitters under 6'0" than above. The key to college baseball recruiting is finding non-profile good hitters. Meaning, if you play 1B in MLB, then you're expected to hit somewhere around .275 with 30 HRs & scouts will draft players that fit that mold high. Thus, if you want a guy to get to campus, then he needs to lag in one of those two measurements. He needs big power with less hit or less power with bigger hit. If you get both, then he's going to get drafted high. Best bet to take good hitter with little power as power usually comes last. Same thing for every position.

3. Yeah, it takes bigger guys longer. They have longer extremities & thus takes longer to get everything on time & get control of their body parts. Coordination takes longer for bigger guys. Same reason why OL are the hardest evaluate

4. Again, power is not a function of height. It's combination of strength, bat speed, & timing. Mickey Mantle was 5'11" 195. Most people don't realize that.

5. Pitchers aren't reactionary but rather get to set their on tempo within their delivery. Thus, taller guys can find their own pace & longer levers often create more leverage within the delivery for guys to throw hard & more strength from which to have durability. Also, since tall guys have so much trouble hitting due to long levers, they're often times forced to pitch since they can't hit.