Babe is the GOAT and non believers are foolin' themselves

[OLJWales]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezg9pWVYIOM

[OLJWales]

Has anyone ever separated themselves that far from their playin' peers?

[Saltydog]

And just think what the guy may have done if he hadn't smoked and drank all the time.

[dawgman]

Has anyone ever separated themselves that far from their playin' peers?

from a pure overall talent #24 was the greatest. he was a true 5 tool player.

[Coach34]

#24 never set a World Series record for scoreless innings pitched. Ruth was 94-46 on the mound

[The Federalist Engineer]

What would the Babe be in today?s game?

Probably a LHP cause today they would not have wrecked his arm with +300 innings pitched per season before he turned 21.

Had the modern Babe played College ball in the 2020s...then his pitching and effortless power would have been on display

Funny thing about 5 tool hitters... they don?t mean Ace and Cy Young Candidate as one of the tools

[OLJWales]

The Big Bambino , son of a saloon owner in Baltimore spent most years in schools for wayward boys in and out of trouble alll the time. His 29 2/3 scorless innings pitched in world series play stayed in tact until Whitey Ford broke that in 1962. Newspapers and a few video clips are all we have to go on regarding his gun out in right field.

What many have forgotten is how Ruth himself saved the game after the Blacksox Scandal. The game was teetering on the verge of collapse so the owners got together and decided to liven up the ball and "re-invent" the home run to bring extra excitement to the game. Tied or led the league in HR's 12 times, Led in RBI's 5 Times. 1921 is considered his best when one out of every 8 HR's hit that year in the American Leauge belonged to Ruth. 171 RBI's, 16 Triples , 44 doubles and topped it off with an .847 slugging average which no batter has EVAH come within .100 of doing. His lifetime slugging average is .690, .56 points bettern runner up Ted Williams. An 8 year run saw him lead the league in walks 7 of those years all the while having Lou Gehrig hitting behind him every single time proving again he was the most feared batter to ever step up to a plate. The man was simply a freak of nature, lightening reflexes, superb judgment and timing and excellent eye sight. No player ever came CLOSE to separating themselves from the field than The Babe. NOT. CLOSE. Edited to Add: Remember when watching those old clips too, that bat weighed 46 ounces.

[OLJWales]

What would the Babe be in today?s game?

Probably a LHP cause today they would not have wrecked his arm with +300 innings pitched per season before he turned 21.

Had the modern Babe played College ball in the 2020s...then his pitching and effortless power would have been on display

Funny thing about 5 tool hitters... they don?t mean Ace and Cy Young Candidate as one of the tools

I doubt that because during the dead ball era, ERA's were way low so it's not that surprising that a scorless innings pitched record stayed around that long, it's just that this one belonged to Ruth. no way Ruth's Lumber would have been benched for pitching.

[dawgman]

#24 never set a World Series record for scoreless innings pitched. Ruth was 94-46 on the mound

Ruth didn't miss 2yrs Appx 266 games due to military service. 24 also missed two years of possible playing in the majors due to having to play in the negro league. 24 also played in the wind tunnel a/k/a candlestick for 12 years.

consider the 2 yrs negro league and 2 more military, those 4 years cost him min of 100 homruns (25 per year) take into account the candlestick effect 12 yrs @ 3-5 homeruns and you add another 50 add these 150 to his total of 660 and you have an unreachable 810.


one of my favorite quotes from 24 was when asked about stolen bases and his total (paraphrased) he said sure he could have stolen many more but he did not steal bases for records but when the team needed them still he is a 2 time member of the 30/30 club.

who else has held a runner at 3rd on a 420 ft flyout?

[OLJWales]

Ruth didn't miss 2yrs Appx 266 games due to military service. 24 also missed two years of possible playing in the majors due to having to play in the negro league. 24 also played in the wind tunnel a/k/a candlestick for 12 years.

consider the 2 yrs negro league and 2 more military, those 4 years cost him min of 100 homruns (25 per year) take into account the candlestick effect 12 yrs @ 3-5 homeruns and you add another 50 add these 150 to his total of 660 and you have an unreachable 810.


one of my favorite quotes from 24 was when asked about stolen bases and his total (paraphrased) he said sure he could have stolen many more but he did not steal bases for records but when the team needed them still he is a 2 time member of the 30/30 club.

who else has held a runner at 3rd on a 420 ft flyout?

Willie had an amazing 20 year run. Could he have hit 16 triples in a year with Ruth's Speed? Could he have led the league in walks 7 years while having Lou Gehrig hitting behind every single time? How many times did Willie's HR total surpass and entire team's? One year his slugging % was .846 and no one has ever come within 100 points of that except Ruth himself when he followed up with an .847 the next year. History tells us his Arm in RF was DEADLY and gunned down base runners at 2nd base with regularity but eventually, it was common knowledge for base runners considering to stretch singles into doubles.. Word was out, take caution when challenging his arm. His life time slugging % is .690 and the # 2 guy on that list is runner up Ted Williams, .56% less. Visiting players would always take Ruth out on the town hoping for a hung over Ruth to not kill them the next day. As he would be rounding 3rd, he'd tip his hat to the visiting dugout shouting "Where we Going Tonight Boys?" Nope, there's a reason a candy bar was named after The All Time Sultan of SWAT!

[Matt3467]

Love the Babe. I do think he was the best to ever play the game. For conversational purposes though adding in the steroid guys there wasn't a better HR hitter than McGwire statistically speaking.

[OLJWales]

Love the Babe. I do think he was the best to ever play the game. For conversational purposes though adding in the steroid guys there wasn't a better HR hitter than McGwire statistically speaking.

Nope. Hell Nope. I've laid the facts out and they are indisputable. "Statistically Speaking" ????? forget that "Shift 8" button?

[dawgman]

how many games of stickball did Ruth play in the streets of NY on the morning of a game?

[OLJWales]

how many games of stickball did Ruth play in the streets of NY on the morning of a game?

Man I love watching those clips of Willie doing that. What a Great Man he was (still is too, no?) But Ruth takes a back seat to NO ONE regarding interactions with fans, kids, the whole Lot. None.

[dawgman]

except for a sprinkler head, Mickey Mantle would have had more impressive statistics even though his stats were not too shabby anyway

[dawgman]

Man I love watching those clips of Willie doing that. What a Great Man he was (still is too, no?) But Ruth takes a back seat to NO ONE regarding interactions with fans, kids, the whole Lot. None.

that was meant to hi-light the fact that he might have been winded slightly come game time

[OLJWales]

that was meant to hi-light the fact that he might have been winded slightly come game time

LMAO, Rep Given Sir, Well Played

[Rex54]

The three greatest hitters of all-time are: Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, & Barry Bonds. You can make credible arguments for each.

[preachermatt83]

Barry Bonds. Period

[Matt3467]

The three greatest hitters of all-time are: Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, & Barry Bonds. You can make credible arguments for each.

If we're talking just pure hitting then a lot more should be added to the list. Ty Cobb, Rose, and Ichiro immediately come to mind.

[Really Clark?]

If we're talking just pure hitting then a lot more should be added to the list. Ty Cobb, Rose, and Ichiro immediately come to mind.

I agree with Cobb but if any contemporary player you want to consider as a great pure hitter, it would have to be Tony Gwynn long before Rose and Ichiro. If you are talking a great pure hitter. Rose has more to do with his career hit record but a career average of .303 vs Gwynn .338 which is 18th all time. A great record and a great hitter but not one of the greatest of all time. Ichiro was great lead off but not a ?pure hitter? and Ricky Henderson was a better lead off man, much higher OBP and OBS and of course the SB?s.

Hank Aaron has to be considered in a Top 5-6 of all time as well. Lifetime .305 average (better than Bonds .298) with the HR?s to boot. Griffey, Jr. without the injuries probably has the stats to put him high on a list of great pure hitters but it didn?t happen for him.

Personally Ted Williams is the best pure hitter and would hit still today. His swing plays no matter the era. Not to mention he would have had 600-650 HR?s added to his total without serving for 3 years during WWII during his prime. Hit 36 HR the year before he left and 38 HR the year returned after those 3 years. Incredible pure hitter.

[OLJWales]

Barry Bonds. Period

Barry had the strongest wrists and forearms I've ever seen in a batter's box. The quickness he could use with them to generate that bat speed was uncanny.

[OLJWales]

If we're talking just pure hitting then a lot more should be added to the list. Ty Cobb, Rose, and Ichiro immediately come to mind.

How many times did either of these great folks get more HR's , Hiits, etc than an entire effin' team? Cobb's History should be adorned more. He and Ruth were in the middle of the big change in the game that was going on. Cobb had his "speed principles" of the game and Ruth had his Candy Bars. One of Cobb's Final games is documented where he changed to an orthodox grip and ripped 3 HR's in a single day. "I coulda done all that too had I wanted to" was his comment on that.

[OLJWales]

And I will continue to bloviate my 58 year old horn by saying the only sports jersey gear I own is Yankee Pinstripes with only a #3 on the back. I'm too old to be having young men's names on the back of my clothing. And I'm a Met's Fan. I just got it to show Homage for the Greatest and Respect for The Game.

[OLJWales]

deltete

[Coach34]

Barry Bonds. Period

only with steroids. Pre-steroids- Bonds was just very good. it was a very noticeable difference. Put Babe Ruth on steroids and lets see what happens

[preachermatt83]

only with steroids. Pre-steroids- Bonds was just very good. it was a very noticeable difference. Put Babe Ruth on steroids and lets see what happens

I ain’t worried about steriods. I say let them all take them now. Baseball was more enjoyable then. Ruth would have taken them. When I look at Bonds career I can’t think of a single player top to bottom I’d rather have.

[Matt3467]

I agree with Cobb but if any contemporary player you want to consider as a great pure hitter, it would have to be Tony Gwynn long before Rose and Ichiro. If you are talking a great pure hitter. Rose has more to do with his career hit record but a career average of .303 vs Gwynn .338 which is 18th all time. A great record and a great hitter but not one of the greatest of all time. Ichiro was great lead off but not a ?pure hitter? and Ricky Henderson was a better lead off man, much higher OBP and OBS and of course the SB?s.

Hank Aaron has to be considered in a Top 5-6 of all time as well. Lifetime .305 average (better than Bonds .298) with the HR?s to boot. Griffey, Jr. without the injuries probably has the stats to put him high on a list of great pure hitters but it didn?t happen for him.

Personally Ted Williams is the best pure hitter and would hit still today. His swing plays no matter the era. Not to mention he would have had 600-650 HR?s added to his total without serving for 3 years during WWII during his prime. Hit 36 HR the year before he left and 38 HR the year returned after those 3 years. Incredible pure hitter.

Gwynn definitely was an outstanding talent! Ichiros stats are hurt by his latter years where he dropped off pretty quickly. Sadly we'll never know what could've been if he'd started his career off in MLB. A lot of people still talk about Will Clarks swing today.

[Matt3467]

only with steroids. Pre-steroids- Bonds was just very good. it was a very noticeable difference. Put Babe Ruth on steroids and lets see what happens

Bonds was virtually the same player pre-steroids than post minus the crazy HR power. Heck he was still hitting 30-40 HRs a year skinny as a twig.

[Matt3467]

I ain’t worried about steriods. I say let them all take them now. Baseball was more enjoyable then. Ruth would have taken them. When I look at Bonds career I can’t think of a single player top to bottom I’d rather have.

The 90's was the best decade ever imo for baseball. It was a blast to watch. On the other hand I don't think they should be legal in sports at all.

[Rex54]

I'm sure it's been measured before but what kind of numbers could Bonds have put up if he didn't play in the most pitcher friendly park in America. Had he been a Yankee rather than a Giant I'm sure he would've clipped 85 that season easy.

[Todd4State]

Babe Ruth was the greatest player of all time. Period. He was so far ahead of his time. If he was playing today be would probably be a dual position closer/DH maybe closer/RF/1B. There was no DH until 1973 and teams didn't use their bullpens like they do today. It was basically wild rookies and washed up former starters. No he didn't miss time because of the Negro Leagues or because of war but he was only a hitter for 16 years compared to like 22 for Mays, Bonds, and Aaron. Ted Williams played 19. So even if they matched Ruth it took them longer to do it no matter when they arrived in MLB. Ruth also played when rules were different. Back in the 1920's if you hit the foul pole it was a foul ball. Now it's a home run. Ballparks were bigger. Pitchers could throw balls that were doctored up and dirty. Ruth outhomered entire TEAMS. If he played today with today's training and technology I kid you not- I think he would hit 1000 home runs. Bill Jenkinson wrote a book called The Year Babe Ruth hit 104 home runs and it details how many Ruth would have hit in the 1990's baseball conditions. Oh yeah- Ruth probably would have been a HOF pitcher had he stuck with that.

I disagree about Ichiro not being a pure hitter having watched him in person in Seattle. He would probably have the hits record had he not spent the first 8 years in his career in Japan. He was one of the best I have ever seen. Ichiro could have been a power hitter if he wanted to. He and Rod Carew or Cobb might be the best at bunting for a hit of all time. Gwynn for sure was a pure hitter. George Brett was kind of like Ichiro. He could have hit for more power if he wanted to. If Albert Pujols had decided to not go pull crazy the last 12 years of his career he would be in the discussion as well. Pete Rose was a pure hitter and wasn't the best of all time but played longer than everyone else. Really Rose was probably the best utility of all time to be technical.

[Todd4State]

I ain’t worried about steriods. I say let them all take them now. Baseball was more enjoyable then. Ruth would have taken them. When I look at Bonds career I can’t think of a single player top to bottom I’d rather have.

Wait? They stopped?**

[Todd4State]

The 90's was the best decade ever imo for baseball. It was a blast to watch. On the other hand I don't think they should be legal in sports at all.

I agree about that. The difference to me is hitters had a better approach during that era. McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, and Griffey, Jr. could all use the whole field. Made them that much more dangerous.

I think the game now is better in some ways. More guys throwing 100+. Better technology. A little more speed here and there. More trash talking. But I would like to see even more aggressive baserunning and more tape measure home runs. You don't see that as much now as you did in the 90's.

[Rex54]

I agree about that. The difference to me is hitters had a better approach during that era. McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, and Griffey, Jr. could all use the whole field. Made them that much more dangerous.

I think the game now is better in some ways.

Major League Baseball has become almost as unwatchable as college basketball.

[starkvegasdawg]

only with steroids. Pre-steroids- Bonds was just very good. it was a very noticeable difference. Put Babe Ruth on steroids and lets see what happens

17 Barry Bonds.

[smootness]

The Big Bambino , son of a saloon owner in Baltimore spent most years in schools for wayward boys in and out of trouble alll the time. His 29 2/3 scorless innings pitched in world series play stayed in tact until Whitey Ford broke that in 1962. Newspapers and a few video clips are all we have to go on regarding his gun out in right field.

What many have forgotten is how Ruth himself saved the game after the Blacksox Scandal. The game was teetering on the verge of collapse so the owners got together and decided to liven up the ball and "re-invent" the home run to bring extra excitement to the game. Tied or led the league in HR's 12 times, Led in RBI's 5 Times. 1921 is considered his best when one out of every 8 HR's hit that year in the American Leauge belonged to Ruth. 171 RBI's, 16 Triples , 44 doubles and topped it off with an .847 slugging average which no batter has EVAH come within .100 of doing. His lifetime slugging average is .690, .56 points bettern runner up Ted Williams. An 8 year run saw him lead the league in walks 7 of those years all the while having Lou Gehrig hitting behind him every single time proving again he was the most feared batter to ever step up to a plate. The man was simply a freak of nature, lightening reflexes, superb judgment and timing and excellent eye sight. No player ever came CLOSE to separating themselves from the field than The Babe. NOT. CLOSE. Edited to Add: Remember when watching those old clips too, that bat weighed 46 ounces.

Well that isn't true.

[Rex54]

Hank Aaron has to be considered in a Top 5-6 of all time as well. Lifetime .305 average (better than Bonds .298) with the HR?s to boot.

Great accumulator but not the same top-end levels as these others. I'd put Aaron in the Stan Musial sphere, a level below Gehrig/Mantle range.

[Todd4State]

Major League Baseball has become almost as unwatchable as college basketball.

Not in person.

[OLJWales]

Babe Ruth was the greatest player of all time. Period. He was so far ahead of his time. If he was playing today be would probably be a dual position closer/DH maybe closer/RF/1B. There was no DH until 1973 and teams didn't use their bullpens like they do today. It was basically wild rookies and washed up former starters. No he didn't miss time because of the Negro Leagues or because of war but he was only a hitter for 16 years compared to like 22 for Mays, Bonds, and Aaron. Ted Williams played 19. So even if they matched Ruth it took them longer to do it no matter when they arrived in MLB. Ruth also played when rules were different. Back in the 1920's if you hit the foul pole it was a foul ball. Now it's a home run. Ballparks were bigger. Pitchers could throw balls that were doctored up and dirty. Ruth outhomered entire TEAMS. If he played today with today's training and technology I kid you not- I think he would hit 1000 home runs. Bill Jenkinson wrote a book called The Year Babe Ruth hit 104 home runs and it details how many Ruth would have hit in the 1990's baseball conditions. Oh yeah- Ruth probably would have been a HOF pitcher had he stuck with that.

I disagree about Ichiro not being a pure hitter having watched him in person in Seattle. He would probably have the hits record had he not spent the first 8 years in his career in Japan. He was one of the best I have ever seen. Ichiro could have been a power hitter if he wanted to. He and Rod Carew or Cobb might be the best at bunting for a hit of all time. Gwynn for sure was a pure hitter. George Brett was kind of like Ichiro. He could have hit for more power if he wanted to. If Albert Pujols had decided to not go pull crazy the last 12 years of his career he would be in the discussion as well. Pete Rose was a pure hitter and wasn't the best of all time but played longer than everyone else. Really Rose was probably the best utility of all time to be technical.

I will attempt a rep, Damn Dude, thank you Todd

[OLJWales]

Bonds had the strongest wrists and forearms I've ever seen in a batter's box

[parabrave]

Not in person.

This all day long. Going to any game no matter what level it is is better than watching it on TV. I love going to the minor league game in Biloxi, jabbering with the opposing players, eating the food and experiencing ambience of the stands and field can't be beat. And oh if JR never got hurt he would have both HR records.

[Really Clark?]

Great accumulator but not the same top-end levels as these others. I'd put Aaron in the Stan Musial sphere, a level below Gehrig/Mantle range.

I have to disagree. And I know it?s peoples opinions but Hank is 3rd in hits all time and 1st in RBI?s to go along with his HR?s and he didn?t strikeout a ton either. I?m not saying he is ahead of Babe, Williams or Cobb but he has to be in the discussion of Top 6 pure hitters of all time.

[Rex54]

Not in person.

Well thank you captain obvious, maybe we rename you ToddWaterIsWet or ToddSkyIsBlue.

No the broader point is that strikeouts, walks, and the occasional home run are yawnfests. I like what they are doing experimenting in the minors with some "pro-action" policies.

[Todd4State]

Well thank you captain obvious, maybe we rename you ToddWaterIsWet or ToddSkyIsBlue.

No the broader point is that strikeouts, walks, and the occasional home run are yawnfests. I like what they are doing experimenting in the minors with some "pro-action" policies.

If they're really serious about improving the product and being proactive they need to start letting computers call the strike zone instead of letting the Angel Hernandez's of the world use MLB as their attention whore platform.

And then that needs to trickle down to SEC/CWS umpires ASAP after that.

Nothing is worse than losing in a championship setting because an umpire has his head up his ass- like the one that called the MSU/Louisville game in Omaha two years ago. Or losing a WS game in large part because of a blown call that would have been overturned with replay like the Cardinals in 1985.

[Rex54]

If they're really serious about improving the product and being proactive they need to start letting computers call the strike zone instead of letting the Angel Hernandez's of the world use MLB as their attention whore platform.

Agree. They also need to end the replay of "did the runner slightly come off the bag for a split second and therefore is out" replay. Replay should only be used in plays at 1st, did the fielder catch the ball or did it hit the ground, and scoring plays.

[OLJWales]

Well that isn't true.

Oh, so my book is a outdated? is that all you got?

[Liverpooldawg]

only with steroids. Pre-steroids- Bonds was just very good. it was a very noticeable difference. Put Babe Ruth on steroids and lets see what happens

Babe was on beer.

[Fred Garvin]

Umm, the Baby Ruth candy bar was named after Grover Cleveland's daughter, not Babe Ruth.

[AROB44]

Hell....I thought this was about Babe McCarthy.....the best basketball coach MSU ever had!!

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

It?s hard to compare eras. I think you have to compare players to their peers at the time. I think the runner up on HR the year The Babe hit 60 had 15! Incredible!

[shoeless joe]

Ted Williams is the greatest hitter that ever lived. The babe, Mays, Aaron are all at the top as well.

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

Ted Williams missing prime years to be a fighter pilot is amazing too

[Rex54]

Slight change in direction:

Randy Johnson is the greatest pitcher of all time.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Has anyone ever separated themselves that far from their playin' peers?

Tiger woods did.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Bonds had the strongest wrists and forearms I've ever seen in a batter's box

Other than Hank Aaron.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Slight change in direction:

Randy Johnson is the greatest pitcher of all time.

He may be. Cy Young pitched like 500 complete games.

[Lord McBuckethead]

except for a sprinkler head, Mickey Mantle would have had more impressive statistics even though his stats were not too shabby anyway

Mantle, Ruth, Williams, Mays and Cobb were All great. Hell, I will throw Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, Cobb, Arod, Ken G Jr, and Rose in there as well.
When you talk about the greatest player there are really only 3-4 players that make the conversation. The coolest thing is to talk about who are the 5-25 best players.

[Matt3467]

Slight change in direction:

Randy Johnson is the greatest pitcher of all time.

He's certainly up there and may be. You've got guys like Koufax, Gibson, Clemens, Maddux, Martinez that are up there. Of course you can't forget about Ryan who may be the best to never win a Cy Young.

[Really Clark?]

He's certainly up there and may be. You've got guys like Koufax, Gibson, Clemens, Maddux, Martinez that are up there. Of course you can't forget about Ryan who may be the best to never win a Cy Young.

Walter Johnson is considered the consensus best of all time by most. Even adjusting with today?s metrics. Bob Feller, Tom Seaver, Left Grove, bunch of greats. Mariano Rivera has to up there even though he was a closer.

[smootness]

Oh, so my book is a outdated? is that all you got?

He doesn't even hold the record. Bonds does.

[Coach34]

Walter Johnson is considered the consensus best of all time by most. Even adjusting with today?s metrics. Bob Feller, Tom Seaver, Left Grove, bunch of greats. Mariano Rivera has to up there even though he was a closer.

Let's dont leave out Nolan Ryan. Had he played for some better teams in his career- he would have won 400 games.

[Really Clark?]

Let's dont leave out Nolan Ryan. Had he played for some better teams in his career- he would have won 400 games.

Well no but the poster I responded to had mentioned Ryan already. Kofax was already mentioned as well but wish he had pitched longer. To always be in this conversation with such a short career is pretty amazing.

[Todd4State]

Well no but the poster I responded to had mentioned Ryan already. Kofax was already mentioned as well but wish he had pitched longer. To always be in this conversation with such a short career is pretty amazing.

Koufax has the best stuff I have ever seen (on video). He retired at 30 and had he pitched another 10 years there is no telling what his numbers would have looked like. I highly doubt his arm would have help up though.

Really admire Koufax for standing up for his religious beliefs as well.

[Rex54]

Tiger woods did.

Team vs individual sports is different. The only comparable to Ruth in baseball is 2001-2004 Bonds as far as being so far above the league norm.

[Really Clark?]

Team vs individual sports is different. The only comparable to Ruth in baseball is 2001-2004 Bonds as far as being so far above the league norm.

Really? I mean from 2001-2004 Bonds lead the league in HR?s just once when he hit 73. Sosa hit 64 that same year with like 2-3 more guys over 50. Statistically with metrics he had some of the best seasons by those measurements but he wasn?t close to lapping the rest of field like Ruth did. If you go by WAR, both Ruth and Mays had better 5 year stretch?s than Bonds 2000-2004 years. If you are comparing with their contemporary peers, you have a strong case that Pedro Martinez in the late 90?s early 2000?s was actually a fair amount more dominate than other pitchers vs Bonds against other position players. Especially looking at his ERA+ numbers. Also, some of the other numbers like FIP lead many to believe that as great as he was, it should have been even better with a little better defense behind him.

[Rex54]

Really? I mean from 2001-2004 Bonds lead the league in HR?s just once when he hit 73. Sosa hit 64 that same year with like 2-3 more guys over 50. Statistically with metrics he had some of the best seasons by those measurements but he wasn?t close to lapping the rest of field like Ruth did. If you go by WAR, both Ruth and Mays had better 5 year stretch?s than Bonds 2000-2004 years. If you are comparing with their contemporary peers, you have a strong case that Pedro Martinez in the late 90?s early 2000?s was actually a fair amount more dominate than other pitchers vs Bonds against other position players. Especially looking at his ERA+ numbers. Also, some of the other numbers like FIP lead many to believe that as great as he was, it should have been even better with a little better defense behind him.

Don't forget how much Bonds was just put on 1st base - he was walked with the bases loaded! Sammy Sosa can't compare, not even close.

[Matt3467]

Walter Johnson is considered the consensus best of all time by most. Even adjusting with today?s metrics. Bob Feller, Tom Seaver, Left Grove, bunch of greats. Mariano Rivera has to up there even though he was a closer.

I'll add also that the guys like Walter Johnson didn't have the pitcher friendly strike zone a lot of these other ones did.

[tireddawg]

This is the kind of thread I come to ED for. One of the best...
Babe is the best all around ball player to ever play, way ahead of his time. You can't compare eras, you compare players against their peers, and the Babe was so far ahead of everyone else, just ridiculous.
Admittingly, I enjoyed the "steroid era", and watched alot of ball back then. Today's MLB doesn't interest me as much.