Howland continues his path at Stands level- makes NIT

[Coach34]

https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1371260083586412544?s=20

[Coach34]

Stands makes NIT- remains only WK coach in modern history not to make the NCAA Tourney

[msstate7]

Glad we got picked. Hopefully we can win a game or 2

[R2Dawg]

We are good enough to make NIT, maybe we get a second win and make a small run.

[BeardoMSU]

OM on our side of the bracket, lol.

[R2Dawg]

OM on our side of the bracket, lol.

Great, like it.

[msstate7]

Kenpom has st Louis #47 and us at #77.

[HoopsDawg]

Kenpom has st Louis #47 and us at #77.

5 teams turned down bids allowing us to slide in.

[BeardoMSU]

5 teams turned down bids allowing us to slide in.

Good. We went from NIT Final 4 to a NCAA 5 seed the next year. Let's hope we do the same in 2022.

[Quaoarsking]

https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1371260083586412544?s=20

You lose a lot of your snarkiness credibility when you can't even embed a Tweet.

[OLJWales]

y'all have fun, LOL

[basedog]

I’m happy our guys are playing, rather play in NIT than be sitting home.

[Coach34]

5 teams turned down bids allowing us to slide in.

We are a 4 seed- 13 teams would have had to turn down bids for us "to slide in"

[Todd4State]

I’m happy our guys are playing, rather play in NIT than be sitting home.

Me too! Could be something for them to build on for next year. We were pretty young this year and once these players become juniors and sophomores they should be a lot better.

[msstate7]

We are a 4 seed- 13 teams would have had to turn down bids for us "to slide in"

There are 4 1s, 2s, 3s, and 4s

[msstate7]

Me too! Could be something for them to build on for next year. We were pretty young this year and once these players become juniors and sophomores they should be a lot better.

That's the hope. Seeing Stewart at 2nd pick of 2nd round in this mock kinda scares me

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/?year-mock=2021

[Coach34]

There are 4 1s, 2s, 3s, and 4s

There are 4 seeds each at 5, 6, 7, and 8 behind us was my point

[HoopsDawg]

There are 4 seeds each at 5, 6, 7, and 8 behind us was my point

Incorrect.

[msstate7]

There are 4 seeds each at 5, 6, 7, and 8 behind us was my point

There aren't. 16 teams made it and the lowest seed is a 4. Who cares though? We made it. In a normal NIT, we would've made it even if no one turned down a selection

[msstate7]

Incorrect.

Still though, in a normal year, 32 teams make it, so we easily qualify.

[Coach34]

My bad- 8 seeds behind us at 5-8. Point remains and we would have made the NIT regardless. Program remains at Stands-level which is what most of our fans care about at the end of the day. Hopefully we meet up with Stands in our bracket. That would be awesome.

[Bulldog1]

...

[Bulldog1]

I definitely don't think we can fire Howland, but I would not be upset if he retired after the season.

[Todd4State]

I definitely don't think we can fire Howland, but I would not be upset if he retired after the season.

Personally I think that would be a blow for MSU. I just don't trust Cohen with any hires at this point. We would probably bring in someone that wants to be the players friends and that won't work at MSU.

[Bulldog1]

Personally I think that would be a blow for MSU. I just don't trust Cohen with any hires at this point. We would probably bring in someone that wants to be the players friends and that won't work at MSU.

Howland's style is just not fun to watch, and you have to be able to shoot 3s to compete right now. I also want to see some different defense other than m2m... Mix in some zone, or some pressure here and there.

[HailStateSZN19]

Personally I think that would be a blow for MSU. I just don't trust Cohen with any hires at this point. We would probably bring in someone that wants to be the players friends and that won't work at MSU.

We can?t avoid making a move if it?s needed just because we?re afraid Cohen will screw it up. He ain?t going nowhere for a while & Howland has to make the NCAAT next season to get another season after next. We can?t just bring him back knowing we?re going to maintain mediocrity just because we don?t want Cohen making a hire.

[OLJWales]

I?m happy our guys are playing, rather play in NIT than be sitting home.

Why is that so difficult for others to understand?

[mparkerfd20]

My bad- 8 seeds behind us at 5-8. Point remains and we would have made the NIT regardless. Program remains at Stands-level which is what most of our fans care about at the end of the day. Hopefully we meet up with Stands in our bracket. That would be awesome.

Stop trying to be right when you are way wrong. Only 16 teams made it this year for the NIT. There are 0 5-8 seed teams this year. We are probably the weakest 4 seed.

[Todd4State]

Howland's style is just not fun to watch, and you have to be able to shoot 3s to compete right now. I also want to see some different defense other than m2m... Mix in some zone, or some pressure here and there.


We can?t avoid making a move if it?s needed just because we?re afraid Cohen will screw it up. He ain?t going nowhere for a while & Howland has to make the NCAAT next season to get another season after next. We can?t just bring him back knowing we?re going to maintain mediocrity just because we don?t want Cohen making a hire.

That may be but I feel like with Howland we have a chance to have another good year next year with a more veteran team. Molinar, probably Stewart, Tolu, Post, and Javian Davis will all be juniors. And then Fountain, Deivon, and Montgomery will be sophomores. And Matthews could be better next year too. And then if he can keep this group mostly together for two years we could be even better.

So, short term let's see what Howland can do with this group. If he doesn't make the NCAA's with them next year then maybe we look at making a change but as it is he basically made the NIT with a group that was basically all freshmen and sophomores. To me that's not a bad job unless it's a team with like five McDonald's All Americans or something like that.



If he retires or we make a change we're probably going to try to bring in someone that "runs a more exciting brand of basketball" which typically for us "more exciting brand" means rebuild because we don't have the players to run a more exciting brand or the leadership to hold it together on the team like we do with baseball. So, I'd rather have a chance at a decent two year run rather than an almost guaranteed rebuild again.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

We can?t avoid making a move if it?s needed just because we?re afraid Cohen will screw it up. He ain?t going nowhere for a while & Howland has to make the NCAAT next season to get another season after next. We can?t just bring him back knowing we?re going to maintain mediocrity just because we don?t want Cohen making a hire.

Give it up. This kind of thinking is not accepted here. We should accept our mediocrity and move on. It is the best MSU can do. Smh

[msstate7]

Only 6 teams in the sec have made postseason play the last 3 times: Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, LSU, state, and tenn. If you go ncaa tourney only, that list goes down to Florida and tenn.

Making the ncaa tourney is hard. Expecting every year is just unrealistic.

ETA... covid is the only reason tenn's ncaa streak is still alive. They would've most likely made NIT though

[BiscuitEater]

We are a 4 seed- 13 teams would have had to turn down bids for us "to slide in"

Look again. There are 16 teams. 4 x 1's, 4 x 2's, 4 x 3's & 4 x 4'2. State is a 4 seed, from #13 - #16. So, we could have been "last one in."

And, your hatred for our former coach 'knows no bounds.'

[BrunswickDawg]

Only 6 teams in the sec have made postseason play the last 3 times: Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, LSU, state, and tenn. If you go ncaa tourney only, that list goes down to Florida and tenn.

Making the ncaa tourney is hard. Expecting every year is just unrealistic.

The one and done rule and the rise of Mid-majors has altered the landscape for making the tournament. So much so that Duke, Kentucky, Louisville, and Indiana are nowhere to be found. UCLA is in a play-in game. Programs that have dominated college basketball for decades can't make the dance.

[BiscuitEater]

My bad- 8 seeds behind us at 5-8. Point remains and we would have made the NIT regardless. Program remains at Stands-level which is what most of our fans care about at the end of the day. Hopefully we meet up with Stands in our bracket. That would be awesome.

Why is this SO hard for you to understand? There are only 16 teams! NO TEAMS ARE 5 - 8. LOWEST SEED IS A 4. MSU is a FOUR.


Serious question .. Did Stans 17 your wife, sister, girlfriend, you or mom?

[maroonmania]

I definitely don't think we can fire Howland, but I would not be upset if he retired after the season.

Someone has stated that he has made it known to the administration that he plans to retire after next year. Don't know whether that is true or not but makes sense. Year after next will likely be another transition year with new guys so it would make sense that next year would be Howland's last rodeo. He is no Spring chicken.

[msstate7]

Someone has stated that he has made it known to the administration that he plans to retire after next year. Don't know whether that is true or not but makes sense. Year after next will likely be another transition year with new guys so it would make sense that next year would be Howland's last rodeo. He is no Spring chicken.

Howland returning, getting us in ncaa, and retiring after would be just about a perfect situation for us. We'd then need to pony up some money for a good hire. We would be a much more attractive job with howland retiring rather than us running him off while getting postseason play.

[msudawg1200]

Louisville, Seton Hall, St. John's, Duke, and Xavier all said no thanks which allowed us to get in. We got the next to last seed as Saint Louis was the #2 overall seed. I don't really care, because I'm glad we are still playing. In a regular year with a 32 team NIT we'd probably have been a #6 seed. Many times you see a team with most guys coming back get into the NIT and parlay that into a NCAA birth the next year. Maybe, that's us.

[basedog]

Howland returning, getting us in ncaa, and retiring after would be just about a perfect situation for us. We'd then need to pony up some money for a good hire. We would be a much more attractive job with howland retiring rather than us running him off while getting postseason play.

It's just way things are now days, wait when we lose a Sec weekend baseball series, Lemonis will be ED's hot-seat*

[Coach34]

Look again. There are 16 teams. 4 x 1's, 4 x 2's, 4 x 3's & 4 x 4'2. State is a 4 seed, from #13 - #16. So, we could have been "last one in."

And, your hatred for our former coach 'knows no bounds.'

I don’t know wtf I was looking at last night. Anyway- pointing out facts about Stands is not hatred. It’s simply informing to spread knowledge

[Bulldog1]

Someone has stated that he has made it known to the administration that he plans to retire after next year. Don't know whether that is true or not but makes sense. Year after next will likely be another transition year with new guys so it would make sense that next year would be Howland's last rodeo. He is no Spring chicken.

I hope that is the case. Howland will not have a team as talented as 2019 again...

[Coach34]

Next season hinges on Stewart returning. If he bolts- that will be a big blow.

[Bulldog1]

Saw where Stewart is ranked #32 in latest nba mock draft. Still need to find a good 3 pt shooter even if he comes back.

Analytics say we were the 3rd worst offense in sec play this season.

[msstate7]

Saw where Stewart is ranked #32 in latest nba mock draft. Still need to find a good 3 pt shooter even if he comes back.

Analytics say we were the 3rd worst offense in sec play this season.

I'd say most of that is TOs and FT shooting. I expect both to get better with another year of experience. Losing Stewart would be a huge blow though

[Commercecomet24]

I?m happy our guys are playing, rather play in NIT than be sitting home.

Absolutely. Always better to be playing than watching.

[Bulldog1]

I'd say most of that is TOs and FT shooting. I expect both to get better with another year of experience. Losing Stewart would be a huge blow though

Yes, we ranked #314 in offensive t.o. % and #327 in ft %. That is ridiculous.

[PGHBulldogBG]

Howland should get 1 more year to see what happens, but he can?t afford any of the following: No bad non conference losses and at least 11-7 most likely 12-6 in SEC play. Then make the NCAA tournament and win the first round. As long as he does those 3 things, he will be good to come back the next year and then he will be re evaluated based on what is returning. Yes, I understand that is Stansbury level, but doing this prior to retirement would help us hire a quality coach

[msstate7]

Howland should get 1 more year to see what happens, but he can?t afford any of the following: No bad non conference losses and at least 11-7 most likely 12-6 in SEC play. Then make the NCAA tournament and win the first round. As long as he does those 3 things, he will be good to come back the next year and then he will be re evaluated based on what is returning. Yes, I understand that is Stansbury level, but doing this prior to retirement would help us hire a quality coach

So if we made the tourney and we lost 1st round, you'd fire him? That's ridiculous. Expecting tourney next season is fair though.

[OLJWales]

We shoulda hired Kermit.

[R2Dawg]

We can?t avoid making a move if it?s needed just because we?re afraid Cohen will screw it up. He ain?t going nowhere for a while & Howland has to make the NCAAT next season to get another season after next. We can?t just bring him back knowing we?re going to maintain mediocrity just because we don?t want Cohen making a hire.

I would have thought different before JC hired Moorhead and NMP but now, I don't want him to hire another coach. Jury still out on ML. He could be 1-4 or 2-4 at best. Batting .500 is good in baseball so I guess JC thinks he is leading the pack in AD performance.

You don't have to look far to see it can get a lot worse - remember after Stans left? At least we are relevant instead of doormat. I don't want to nuke MBB again or football or baseball or any sport MSU is doing well in - WBB.

[BrunswickDawg]

We shoulda hired Kermit.

Kermit wouldn't have us in any better position. He's 26-28 in SEC play over 3 seasons now. His top 4 scorers this year are all upperclassmen and still only went 16-11 (10-8).
Don't get me wrong, I like Kermit and we should have hired him over Rick Ray - but Kermit ain't gonna move the needle on where the program is currently.

[basedog]

Kermit wouldn't have us in any better position. He's 26-28 in SEC play over 3 seasons now. His top 4 scorers this year are all upperclassmen and still only went 16-11 (10-8).
Don't get me wrong, I like Kermit and we should have hired him over Rick Ray - but Kermit ain't gonna move the needle on where the program is currently.

Correct.

[OLJWales]

Kermit wouldn't have us in any better position. He's 26-28 in SEC play over 3 seasons now. His top 4 scorers this year are all upperclassmen and still only went 16-11 (10-8).
Don't get me wrong, I like Kermit and we should have hired him over Rick Ray - but Kermit ain't gonna move the needle on where the program is currently.

I disagree and I don't like admitting it. Howland's only advantage over Kermit is Crootin' Swag. Kermit is Light's Out Better on the Court. He proved it this year by doing better than Howland's Dogs with Less Talent Overall. And that SUCKS, but True. So Cohen had an option of Kermit / Ray? Great, now I'm pissed off all over again. That should be a fireable offense. No excuse for an AD to be allowed to Fornicate Up that bad and still keep a job.

[msstate7]

I disagree and I don't like admitting it. Howland's only advantage over Kermit is Crootin' Swag. Kermit is Light's Out Better on the Court. He proved it this year by doing better than Howland's Dogs with Less Talent Overall. And that SUCKS, but True.

They're both in the NIT and we got there replacing what 80% of our scoring from last year

[OLJWales]

They're both in the NIT and we got there replacing what 80% of our scoring from last year

Thanks for that 7, makes sense too. I just think Kermit's doing a much better job based on overall talent.

[BrunswickDawg]

I disagree and I don't like admitting it. Howland's only advantage over Kermit is Crootin' Swag. Kermit is Light's Out Better on the Court. He proved it this year by doing better than Howland's Dogs with Less Talent Overall. And that SUCKS, but True. So Cohen had an option of Kermit / Ray? Great, now I'm pissed off all over again. That should be a fireable offense. No excuse for an AD to be allowed to Fornicate Up that bad and still keep a job.

Stricklin hired Ray not Cohen.

About that talent - Here are the top 6 scorers for each team

Stewart (.94 4*) Molinar (.89 3*) T. Smith (not rated) Ado (.92 4*) D Smith (.98 4*) Johnson (.83 3*)
Shuler (.93 4*) Joiner(Not rated) White(.97 4*) Buffen (.88 3*) Rodriguiez (.89 3*) Murrell (.98 4*)

There is almost no difference in MSU and OM

[OLJWales]

Stricklin hired Ray not Cohen.

About that talent - Here are the top 6 scorers for each team

Stewart (.94 4*) Molinar (.89 3*) T. Smith (not rated) Ado (.92 4*) D Smith (.98 4*) Johnson (.83 3*)
Shuler (.93 4*) Joiner(Not rated) White(.97 4*) Buffen (.88 3*) Rodriguiez (.89 3*) Murrell (.98 4*)

There is almost no difference in MSU and OM

thanks for that. I was guessing I guess. FK Stricklin'; so how do the HS Resume's compare between us and the Shit up North? I'm thinking that our guys are about 1.375% higher in Star Power.

[BiscuitEater]

Anyway- pointing out facts about Stands is not hatred. It?s simply informing to spread knowledge


Well ATFQ ... Did Stans 17 your wife, sister, girlfriend, you or your mom? Your hatred is way beyond 'normal.'

[BiscuitEater]

We shoulda hired Kermit.

I lived through Kermit's dad. I don't want ANY part of Jr.

[Bulldog1]

Howland is an elite recruiter but an average floor coach... Just like someone else.

[thf24]

I disagree and I don't like admitting it. Howland's only advantage over Kermit is Crootin' Swag. Kermit is Light's Out Better on the Court. He proved it this year by doing better than Howland's Dogs with Less Talent Overall. And that SUCKS, but True. So Cohen had an option of Kermit / Ray? Great, now I'm pissed off all over again. That should be a fireable offense. No excuse for an AD to be allowed to Fornicate Up that bad and still keep a job.

I'd wait until a few more years to see what Kermit does with teams of only players he recruited.

Jimmies and Joes.

[OLJWales]

I'd wait until a few more years to see what Kermit does with teams of only players he recruited.

Jimmies and Joes.

Would Jerk to whippin' Confed ASS in the NIT, hopefully we'll get a chance to cross dat bridge

[Coach34]

Well ATFQ ... Did Stans 17 your wife, sister, girlfriend, you or your mom? Your hatred is way beyond 'normal.'

I literally have zero hatred of Stands. I hate our fans that try to make him something he isnt. Guys like you that get mad when I point out he is the 1st WK coach in modern history that couldnt get them in the NCAA Tourney within 5 years of taking the job. Making him their worst coach in modern history

[Quaoarsking]

I literally have zero hatred of Stands. I hate our fans that try to make him something he isnt. Guys like you that get mad when I point out he is the 1st WK coach in modern history that couldnt get them in the NCAA Tourney within 5 years of taking the job. Making him their worst coach in modern history

That's not how you judge coaches in 1-bid leagues. Making the tournament is a function of who happens to get hot one weekend. Much better to judge based on conference W/L, where Stansbury compares favorably.

[BiscuitEater]

I hate our fans that try to make him something he isnt.

Look in a mirror

Winningest MBB coach in school history.

Entire history of this board, I have NEVER, EVER started a single thread ABOUT Stansberry. What say you OP?

Think you are good for at least 5 -10 threads a BB season.

Who's obsessed?

[Coach34]

Look in a mirror

Winningest MBB coach in school history.

Ill take the guy that won an SEC Title plus made the Sweet 16 and a Final Four

[PGHBulldogBG]

So if we made the tourney and we lost 1st round, you'd fire him? That's ridiculous. Expecting tourney next season is fair though.

I didn?t say fire him, especially with Cohen as our AD. I said we would need to re evaluate. He has underachieved too much though with the talent he has been given, so his leash is short. Doing the things I mentioned should get him another 2 years if he wants to keep coaching. Not doing that I think we should just encourage retirement and roll the dice. I would try to look at a coach that has underachieved with the talent he has been dealt at a school for 4-5 years

[Rayburn8]

Stans should have been fired as soon as Sidney threw that punch and the senior captain was the one who left the team and not Sidney.

He like Jackie, was left around too long and lost control of the program and it needed a total reboot. We fire Stans sooner and we can get a good coach to try to continue the momentum.

[PGHBulldogBG]

Stans should have been fired as soon as Sidney threw that punch and the senior captain was the one who left the team and not Sidney.

He like Jackie, was left around too long and lost control of the program and it needed a total reboot. We fire Stans sooner and we can get a good coach to try to continue the momentum.

I could be losing track but I thought that was the main reason Stans was fired. Did he get another year after that? I thought he was done the year of Sidney and the reason for his firing was that and not necessarily his coaching results.

[BiscuitEater]

Ill take the guy that won an SEC Title plus made the Sweet 16 and a Final Four

Guess I would take the one that won the SEC title in 2004, and three SECT titles, won 458 games in 14 years, and actually had a winning SEC record, owning the SEC West, AND the Coach that Recruited the Players on those '91 SEC Championship, sweet 16 and Final Four teams from '90-'98.



Richard Williams Miss State 1987 1998 12 354 191 163 .540 202 89 113 .441
Rick Stansbury Campbellsville 1999 2012 14 458 293 165 .641 224 122 102 .545
Rick Ray Grand View 2012 2015 3 92 36 56 .391 50 12 38 .240
Ben Howland Weber State 2015 5+ 188 110 78 .585 104 49 55 .471

[confucius say]

I literally have zero hatred of Stands. I hate our fans that try to make him something he isnt. Guys like you that get mad when I point out he is the 1st WK coach in modern history that couldnt get them in the NCAA Tourney within 5 years of taking the job. Making him their worst coach in modern history

He's already their 4th winningest coach ever in less than 5 years. And played for the conference 3 years in a row now, losing all 3 in a one bid league. If you're using ncaa tourney appearances as the sole metric, howland is way way way worse at MSU than stans (Ben's been to one ncaa tourney in five seasons (20%) and stans did it six times in fourteen seasons (43%)).

But let's assume you're right that Ben has us at stans level - we ran off our coach and destroyed our program only to be at the same place we were 10 years later.

[Coach34]

Except that we aren’t being laughed at because of the rampant drug use and drama as we were 10 years ago. Not seeing the cases of Moultrie Knee these days or highlights of team fights on TV. That’s why Stands lost his job- not his coaching record

[OLJWales]

Except that we aren’t being laughed at because of the rampant drug use and drama as we were 10 years ago. Not seeing the cases of Moultrie Knee these days or highlights of team fights on TV. That’s why Stands lost his job- not his coaching record

Stands was one of the best crooters' to coach at MSU. But I think he put too much effort with certain croots. Like RSidney. Lost Control because some players were controlling HIM.

[BiscuitEater]

Entire history of this board, I have NEVER, EVER started a single thread ABOUT Stansberry. What say you OP?

Yo, how many Coach?

[confucius say]

Except that we aren’t being laughed at because of the rampant drug use and drama as we were 10 years ago. Not seeing the cases of Moultrie Knee these days or highlights of team fights on TV. That’s why Stands lost his job- not his coaching record

I'll take an ncaa tourney every other year on average and some drama over one tourney a decade and no drama.

Also, should we fire leach for the embarrassing brawl at the bowl game that was posted all over the internet and had talking heads like herbie condemning us?

[TrapGame]

I'll take an ncaa tourney every other year on average and some drama over one tourney a decade and no drama.

Also, should we fire leach for the embarrassing brawl at the bowl game that was posted all over the internet and had talking heads like herbie condemning us?

Totally different situations. The team was not infighting. We beat the shit out of a punk ass team that would not stop ****ing with us before the game even started. They got what they deserved.

And Herbstreit can eat my ass. He's a pompous prick.

[MadDawg]

We are a 4 seed- 13 teams would have had to turn down bids for us "to slide in"

Holy shit!!! LMAO!!!!!

[Coach34]

Yeah I had had too much cough medicine when I posted that

[confucius say]

Yeah I had had too much cough medicine when I posted that

On a serious note, hope the heart is better

[R2Dawg]

Guess I would take the one that won the SEC title in 2004, and three SECT titles, won 458 games in 14 years, and actually had a winning SEC record, owning the SEC West, AND the Coach that Recruited the Players on those '91 SEC Championship, sweet 16 and Final Four teams from '90-'98.



Richard Williams Miss State 1987 1998 12 354 191 163 .540 202 89 113 .441
Rick Stansbury Campbellsville 1999 2012 14 458 293 165 .641 224 122 102 .545
Rick Ray Grand View 2012 2015 3 92 36 56 .391 50 12 38 .240
Ben Howland Weber State 2015 5+ 188 110 78 .585 104 49 55 .471

Stans was a very good coach overall; his record speaks for itself. Williams did some good things but why didn't he win against a weaker Syracuse team? If Williams had played Xaxier that year we got bounced early, he would have lost too. Stans won a lot and we were like 3rd in SEC as far as programs for most of those years behind UK and UF. People forget how good we were. Remember Rick's Rowdies? The Hump was rockin.

[basedog]

Stans was a very good coach overall; his record speaks for itself. Williams did some good things but why didn't he win against a weaker Syracuse team? If Williams had played Xaxier that year we got bounced early, he would have lost too. Stans won a lot and we were like 3rd in SEC as far as programs for most of those years behind UK and UF. People forget how good we were. Remember Rick's Rowdies? The Hump was rockin.

shannondog would have approved this message! RIP to one of the better Basketball donors, he loved Stans. I miss his friendship.

[confucius say]

shannondog would have approved this message! RIP to one of the better Basketball donors, he loved Stans. I miss his friendship.

Ahhh yea. Man that's sad. How did he pass?

[BeardoMSU]

These "Stans" threads remind me of the scene in The Godfather where Clemenza tells Michael "it's been 10 years since the last one [war]"..."but these things have to happen to get rid of the bad blood". It's literally the exact same thing year after year, lol....'cept unfortunately, it's not every 10 years, but every 10 minutes (at least it feels like it).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69IvMs--aKA&ab_channel=yahiamuhammad

[Coach34]

On a serious note, hope the heart is better

Thanks man. I've been very lucky healthwise in my life until 2021. Started BP meds, severe sleep apnea, and cataract surgery ahead this summer. If gray hair starts moving in I dont know wtf I'll do.

[Coach34]

Guess I would take the one that won the SEC title in 2004, and three SECT titles, won 458 games in 14 years, and actually had a winning SEC record, owning the SEC West, AND the Coach that Recruited the Players on those '91 SEC Championship, sweet 16 and Final Four teams from '90-'98.



Richard Williams Miss State 1987 1998 12 354 191 163 .540 202 89 113 .441
Rick Stansbury Campbellsville 1999 2012 14 458 293 165 .641 224 122 102 .545
Rick Ray Grand View 2012 2015 3 92 36 56 .391 50 12 38 .240
Ben Howland Weber State 2015 5+ 188 110 78 .585 104 49 55 .471

Wrong- Williams and John Brady recruited the guys for the 91 SEC championship team. Stands 1st season was 91 and that was a Sr laden team with Hartsfield, Burns, Merritt, Carter, Watts was a Jr I think. They made the NIT as Jr's and NCAA's as Sr's. Plus- people seem to always forget about Robert Kirby's recruiting also. Stands is a good recruiter but Kirby is too.

[TrapGame]

Thanks man. I've been very lucky healthwise in my life until 2021. Started BP meds, severe sleep apnea, and cataract surgery ahead this summer. If gray hair starts moving in I dont know wtf I'll do.

Cataracts are my jam bruh. PM me if you need a good surgeon.

[confucius say]

Thanks man. I've been very lucky healthwise in my life until 2021. Started BP meds, severe sleep apnea, and cataract surgery ahead this summer. If gray hair starts moving in I dont know wtf I'll do.

Well hang in there. Exercise and eat right my man.

[PGHBulldogBG]

Too bad we aren?t talking about some real ?coaches? we can hire like Pat Kelsey, Darian DeVries or Wes Miller. Instead, we are constantly talking about which ?recruiter? under achieves more

[HailStateSZN19]

Too bad we aren?t talking about some real ?coaches? we can hire like Pat Kelsey, Darian DeVries or Wes Miller. Instead, we are constantly talking about which ?recruiter? under achieves more

Tune in Saturday at 11:45 on TruTV and watch Wes Miller and UNCG give FSU all they want with 1 player on his team that would be a contributor for FSU. Dude is a hell of a coach. He?ll be gone after this off-season I?d bet. If not and Howland retires after next year, he?s gotta be #1 on the list. Would he take it? Idk but you take a swing.

[Reunion Dog]

Thanks for that 7, makes sense too. I just think Kermit's doing a much better job based on overall talent.

BS.. OM has a better coach.. and he WANTED to be a Bulldog again.. and be head coach just like his Dad was...

[Reunion Dog]

Guess I would take the one that won the SEC title in 2004, and three SECT titles, won 458 games in 14 years, and actually had a winning SEC record, owning the SEC West, AND the Coach that Recruited the Players on those '91 SEC Championship, sweet 16 and Final Four teams from '90-'98.



Richard Williams Miss State 1987 1998 12 354 191 163 .540 202 89 113 .441
Rick Stansbury Campbellsville 1999 2012 14 458 293 165 .641 224 122 102 .545
Rick Ray Grand View 2012 2015 3 92 36 56 .391 50 12 38 .240
Ben Howland Weber State 2015 5+ 188 110 78 .585 104 49 55 .471


shannondog would have approved this message! RIP to one of the better Basketball donors, he loved Stans. I miss his friendship.

Shady Brady & Julius Smith.. The Brother Always wore the Bowtie! Great guy...

[BiscuitEater]

BS.. OM has a better coach and be head coach just like his Dad was...

Yea, that's what I was AFRAID of! I was at MSU during his tenure. He was almost Rick Ray bad. Didn't even have a total winning record in his 7 year MSU career (50%)! Won 34.9 % of SEC games (42-82)


Kermit Davis Miss State 1971 1977 7 182 91 91 .500 126 44 82 .349

[PGHBulldogBG]

Kermit Davis Jr is miles ahead of Howland as an in game floor coach. Now recruiting is a different story. He can?t seem to get that going at Ole Miss, although I?m not sure Howland could do that their with their awful hoops tradition. I give him tons of credit though for taking over a train wreck team left by Kennedy and taking them to the NCAA in his first year after they were picked last in the SEC. Anyone who thought hiring Ray over Kermit Jr must?ve been dropped on their head as a kid

[msstate7]

Kermit Davis Jr is miles ahead of Howland as an in game floor coach. Now recruiting is a different story. He can?t seem to get that going at Ole Miss, although I?m not sure Howland could do that their with their awful hoops tradition. I give him tons of credit though for taking over a train wreck team left by Kennedy and taking them to the NCAA in his first year after they were picked last in the SEC. Anyone who thought hiring Ray over Kermit Jr must?ve been dropped on their head as a kid

Train wreck? AK had a bad year his last one for sure, but the prior 3 years, AK won 20 or more. AK left Kermit Davis, tyree, and shuler. Tyree made all sec, and Davis is in the nba, not d-league/g-league/whatever.

Do you guys even pay attention to basketball? OM is not some talent-less program. Shuler and white this season are a very good tandem. Rodriquez is a lock down defender. Now if they lose those 3 players this season, we'll see how Kermit can replace them. He still hasn't gotten a guard like tyree and shuler (gifted to him)... now, ruffin might be that guy.

[BiscuitEater]

You are correct. Rick was hired in May, 1990. He didn't do much recruiting for the 1991 team.

[BrunswickDawg]

Train wreck? AK had a bad year his last one for sure, but the prior 3 years, AK won 20 or more. AK left Kermit Davis, tyree, and shuler. Tyree made all sec, and Davis is in the nba, not d-league/g-league/whatever.

Do you guys even pay attention to basketball? OM is not some talent-less program. Shuler and white this season are a very good tandem. Rodriquez is a lock down defender. Now if they lose those 3 players this season, we'll see how Kermit can replace them. He still hasn't gotten a guard like tyree and shuler (gifted to him)... now, ruffin might be that guy.

If anything, Ole Miss shows how difficult it has become to make the NCAA since the 1 and done rule went into effect in '05 and the emergence of the mid-majors. OM won 19 or more 10 out of 12 years under Kennedy between '06 an '18. They made the dance 2 times. Similarly, we won 19 or more 7 times in the same time span (hard to believe) and made the tourney 3 times. Prior to '05ish, 19 -20 wins was almost a lock for any SEC to get in. Between '96 and '05, OM won 19 or more 6 times and made the tourney 5 while we matched them at 6 and 5.

And you are right - Kennedy did not leave the cupboard bare. He had young talent but Kennedy was a dead man walking that year and everyone knew it.

[Bulldog1]

I don't think any other coach that would come here could sign better players than Howland has done, but man his teams are so hard to watch offensively. If he is going to stay, he needs to at least hire a good x and o offensive assistant coach.

[Ari Gold]

Kermit Davis Jr is miles ahead of Howland as an in game floor coach. Now recruiting is a different story. He can?t seem to get that going at Ole Miss, although I?m not sure Howland could do that their with their awful hoops tradition. I give him tons of credit though for taking over a train wreck team left by Kennedy and taking them to the NCAA in his first year after they were picked last in the SEC. Anyone who thought hiring Ray over Kermit Jr must?ve been dropped on their head as a kid

Easy with the train wreck and their hoops tradition isn’t much worse than ours.. I’m not sure what happened to AK his last year it was bad , but that team Kermit got was very good.
Shuler, and a Sr in Stevens
With Tyree and a pro in Davis

Did they over achieve? Yeah a little
But then he comes back in year 2 and lays a turd. With Tyree / Shuler and his guys

Again with this the game has passed Ben , and his style of play sucks ... His offense is as good or better than Kermit’s .
I agree I wish he would switch up his defense more and he may have to next year with Ado gone because Smith is an average at best defender . We will have to get up and down the court better next year and I think we will and Tulo will be much better on offense without Ado at the 5 , but he will be greatly missed on the defensive end

Also if I remember correctly ever one bitching and moaning a few years ago when we prob lead the league in 3 point shot attempts.. people saying all we do is jack up 3s. this sucks

Again If Ben retires after the season or next season that’s fine.. Cohen just better be able to make the right hire.

And yes kermit would have been a better hire than RR , but Kermit Davis Probaly isn’t going to be the guy to get you to that next level.. is CBH ?? Maybe not here but his resume says yes. We gave Stands what 14 seasons he never did it.

If you want to get to the next level in college hoops your coach has to both recruit and develop guys for the NBA
Howland In 6 years . 3 nba guys drafted with Stewart and Molinar 2 in waiting which will make possibly 5 in 7 years .. and all were recruited here no transfers.
Before that I think it was maybe 6 over a 20 year span and all of these guys had limited at best careers and 2 were transfers
Zimmerman
Swat
Austin
Roberts
Tyrone Washington
And I guess Moultrie

[Bulldog1]

Easy with the train wreck and their hoops tradition isn’t much worse than ours.. I’m not sure what happened to AK his last year it was bad , but that team Kermit got was very good.
Shuler, and a Sr in Stevens
With Tyree and a pro in Davis

Did they over achieve? Yeah a little
But then he comes back in year 2 and lays a turd. With Tyree / Shuler and his guys

Again with this the game has passed Ben , and his style of play sucks ... His offense is as good or better than Kermit’s .
I agree I wish he would switch up his defense more and he may have to next year with Ado gone because Smith is an average at best defender . We will have to get up and down the court better next year and I think we will and Tulo will be much better on offense without Ado at the 5 , but he will be greatly missed on the defensive end

Also if I remember correctly ever one bitching and moaning a few years ago when we prob lead the league in 3 point shot attempts.. people saying all we do is jack up 3s. this sucks

Again If Ben retires after the season or next season that’s fine.. Cohen just better be able to make the right hire.

And yes kermit would have been a better hire than RR , but Kermit Davis Probaly isn’t going to be the guy to get you to that next level.. is CBH ?? Maybe not here but his resume says yes. We gave Stands what 14 seasons he never did it.

If you want to get to the next level in college hoops your coach has to both recruit and develop guys for the NBA
Howland In 6 years . 3 nba guys drafted with Stewart and Molinar 2 in waiting which will make possibly 5 in 7 years .. and all were recruited here no transfers.
Before that I think it was maybe 6 over a 20 year span and all of these guys had limited at best careers and 2 were transfers
Zimmerman
Swat
Austin
Roberts
Tyrone Washington
And I guess Moultrie

Agree. But right now I'm not sure who I want to replace him.

[HailStateSZN19]

Easy with the train wreck and their hoops tradition isn’t much worse than ours.. I’m not sure what happened to AK his last year it was bad , but that team Kermit got was very good.
Shuler, and a Sr in Stevens
With Tyree and a pro in Davis

Did they over achieve? Yeah a little
But then he comes back in year 2 and lays a turd. With Tyree / Shuler and his guys

Again with this the game has passed Ben , and his style of play sucks ... His offense is as good or better than Kermit’s .
I agree I wish he would switch up his defense more and he may have to next year with Ado gone because Smith is an average at best defender . We will have to get up and down the court better next year and I think we will and Tulo will be much better on offense without Ado at the 5 , but he will be greatly missed on the defensive end

Also if I remember correctly ever one bitching and moaning a few years ago when we prob lead the league in 3 point shot attempts.. people saying all we do is jack up 3s. this sucks

Again If Ben retires after the season or next season that’s fine.. Cohen just better be able to make the right hire.

And yes kermit would have been a better hire than RR , but Kermit Davis Probaly isn’t going to be the guy to get you to that next level.. is CBH ?? Maybe not here but his resume says yes. We gave Stands what 14 seasons he never did it.

If you want to get to the next level in college hoops your coach has to both recruit and develop guys for the NBA
Howland In 6 years . 3 nba guys drafted with Stewart and Molinar 2 in waiting which will make possibly 5 in 7 years .. and all were recruited here no transfers.
Before that I think it was maybe 6 over a 20 year span and all of these guys had limited at best careers and 2 were transfers
Zimmerman
Swat
Austin
Roberts
Tyrone Washington
And I guess Moultrie

I?d be shocked if Howland retired after this season. I think he gotta get to the NCAAT next season to get another year. But if he takes us to the NCAAT next season, I wouldn?t be shocked if he retired after next season. That?s just my thoughts. No inside info whatsoever.

[PGHBulldogBG]

Ill take the guy that won an SEC Title plus made the Sweet 16 and a Final Four

With less raw talent too. Williams was our last good basketball coach. I emphasize the word coach not recruiter

[msstate7]

With less raw talent too. Williams was our last good basketball coach. I emphasize the word coach not recruiter

He has the final 4 and sweet 16, so those obviously trump anything howland has done. With that said, Williams was 191-163 (.540) and 89-113 (.441) in sec. Howland is 113-81 (.582) and 51-57 (.472) in sec.

A "good basketball coach" didn't do much of anything here except when he had great talent. Now when Williams had 2 1st round picks with 1 a lottery, he made em count. Hopefully howland can get 2 1st round picks with 1 in the lottery.

[msstate7]

With less raw talent too. Williams was our last good basketball coach. I emphasize the word coach not recruiter

Huh? Stansbury never had a lottery pick much less a lottery pick with another 1st rounder

[confucius say]

With less raw talent too. Williams was our last good basketball coach. I emphasize the word coach not recruiter

Less talent? We've never had a team as talented as 96. Two first round draft picks, one of whom played in the nba 15 years, and an all sec guard in Wilson.