After yesterday, I feel like I've figured us out.

[MetEdDawg]

If you go through the lineup we played yesterday, I think you begin to see why we are so up and down from play to play and series to series. This is kind of long.

First off, I want to say that I do think Mullen is trying to do to much and I do think some of the play calling has been questionable. But after yesterday, I'm attributing this season's losses to the amount of youth and inexperience we have.

QB: Dak is the guy, but he was NOT supposed to be the guy this year and mentally I don't think he was prepared to be the guy so early in the season. As we've gone on he's really taken over that role and has become our big playmaker. He's a sophomore replacing a senior in the middle of the season.

RB: Perkins has been great in the past, but you saw what J Rob can do as a true RB that Perk can't do. Between the tackles, lower the boom guy. He's a sophomore replacing a senior. Add Shump in there as a freshman.

WR: Bear, Fred Ross, Fred Brown, Jeremy Chappelle, Brandon Holloway. All pretty much new although Holloway has been here but never really used. It's very rare that true freshmen come in at WR and just blow people away, but it's also rare to have 4-5 guys playing WR that really have never logged minutes before this year. We are young here and it's why our running game can be hit or miss on the outside. Jameon and RoJo are still only juniors, but the rest are still learning. They are growing rapidly but they still have to learn the ropes.

OL is solid but still having to replace Malone (a sophomore) at RG with Beckwith (a junior) that's never played before. We are old and experienced on the OL and it's why I think it has been our most consistent unit this year. Gabe is the ONLY senior I really am scared about replacing on this entire roster.

DL: Chris Jones, AJ Jefferson, Preston Smith, Ryan Brown, Quay Evans. All either first year starters or first year seeing starter minutes. Chris and Jefferson both freshmen, Brown a sophomore. Add Eulls, Autry, Virges, and PJ Jones and we have a great mix of young talent and experience. That being said, Autry is EASILY replaced next year and for the most part could be replaced this year.

LB: We played crazy young here yesterday. Benny Brown filled in very nicely for Skinner, Richie logged good minutes. That's two freshmen, add Benardrick (who is still only a sophomore), and Desmond Harris sitting the bench. We are very young but the talent here is through the roof. Matt Wells comes back too.

DBs: I mean where do we even start here. Calhoun, Love, Hughes before he got hurt, Market, Cleveland, Evans, Jiles, Cox, Redmond, Coman. NOT A SENIOR AMONG THESE GUYS and only two juniors!! None of these guys played meaningful minutes last year except maybe Love. This unit is so young but I think there is a lot of potential here.

I did all of this to show this number: 20. That's the number of freshmen and sophomore we had playing for us yesterday on the road against Johnny Manziel and the #15 team in the nation. Let that sink in. We are relying on 20 guys that have really never played meaningful college minutes, never started, hell, never been in college before. To me this is why we are so up and down every game because we have so much learning youth on this team.

One week it's offense, one week it's defense, one week it's special teams, sometimes it's one specific unit. I think Dan could do better as a coach, but crap guys, if you look at the total minutes logged by our players, we might be the youngest football team in the SEC in terms of freshmen and sophomores getting minutes. I think this is why execution has been a problem at times and why we aren't seeing a lot of big plays.

I'm feeling really confident about the future. We lose 6 seniors and I think 5 of them are replaceable right now. But we've hung around with some really good teams for portions of games and we have done it on the backs of a lot of freshman and sophomores, and juniors getting their first meaningful minutes of their career. I know the staff can do better, but for a young team like we are, we do some things really really well and going forward you have to feel good.

I don't think TAMU is any better coached than we are. But when you have a Manziel, he covers up a lot of mistakes. We had them 3rd and long multiple times. They don't tackle well, they don't run it well outside of Manziel. I really don't think we are as poorly coached as people think we are, I just think youth has led to a lot of mental mistakes and lack of execution.

Sorry for the long post, but I had to get all this out.

[Political Hack]

Good points.

I'm not that worries about Gane though. Clayborn is better than Gabe was a freshman and should fill in nicely with Malone next season. Beckwith will give us some good depth options, along with a few others.

[EngineerDawg]

You lost me at young. I am tired of hiring the combination of young, inexperience, and Mullen in a sentence. It's year 5 and we were better as a whole when Mullen was improvising with crooms hand-me-downs.

[MetEdDawg]

Let's look at the juniors and seniors we had Mullen's 1st year. 6 of these 14 are seniors:

Tyson Lee, Anthony Dixon, Brandon McRae, Christian Ducre, Jamar Chaney, KJ Wright, Chris White, Zac Smith, Derek Sherrod, Pernell McPhee, Patrick Hanrahan, JC Brignone, Leon Berry.

Now let's look at this years juniors and seniors. 6 of these 23 are seniors:

Nickoe, Skinner, Siddoway, Russell, Perkins, Gabe, Autry, Wells, Virges, Preston Smith, Love, Lewis, PJ Jones, RoJo, Malcolm Johnson, Jay Hughes, Eulls, Day, Cox, Clausell, Beckwith.

How many of these guys share significant time with someone else? Russell, Perkins, RoJo, Autry, Virges, Love, Lewis, Eulls, Malcolm Johnson? All of these guys are replaceable right now except Lewis and Love. How many of those guys from Mullen's first year would you want taken off the field with what we had behind them? Maybe Zac Smith?? Everyone else from that first year was too important to take off the field.

We could never take those seniors off the field Mullen's first year because we had nothing behind them to replace them with. They were the best we had. Some of these juniors that make impacts for us are getting beat out for playing time by freshmen and sophomores with way more upside and play making ability.

To me that's the big difference. We didn't recruit well Mullen's first two years which is why we are in this predicament. Our juniors and seniors are losing playing time across the board because they aren't good enough. You can use that as an indictment on Mullen but the guy was a new head coach and was like 38 trying to rebuild the shit Croom left us in. Not really his fault. But he's recruited way better the past 3 years and you can see that on the field now because those guys are playing and taking minutes away from upperclassmen.

I'm sorry if you don't think it's a legit argument, but I think it is. We knew this was a transition year and this was one of the big reasons why. Schedule was bad but we really just don't have a lot of huge impact upperclassmen. Next year there's no excuse in my opinion because we return like 90% of our minutes played. I would bet there aren't many, if any, SEC teams returning that many minutes next year. It is a valid reason for our struggles. But there seems to be a lot of people who have already made their minds up on Mullen that can't look at situations objectively. Just get Hud and I don't care how. That's stupid.

Every program has ups and downs. We were going to have a down this year and people knew that going in. Now all of a sudden Mullen sucks, the whole staff sucks, the players suck, blah blah blah. It's a down year. Teams like ours have always had down years. If I truly felt next year would be a down year I would want Mullen gone. But it won't be. The pieces are in place for a big year. Once Mullen gets to 6 wins this year, next year won't look so bleak.

[MrKotter]

Its not just this year that has people pissed.

[blacklistedbully]

Things that have me pissed:

TR with only LP in the backfiled with him, and running it up the gut.
TR in and running the ball in cricial 3rd & short situations.
Devon Bell allowed to go game-after-game choking one kick after another.
A HC who not only fails repeatedly, but fails doing the same shit that hasn't worked time & again!!!!

[Political Hack]

those bowl seasons too much to bare?

[Will James]

Didn't Engie show we are pretty much no younger than everyone else in a post recently? I'm not buying the young bull shit and I'm not buying that Dak wasn't ready. It's his 3rd year on campus for crying out loud. Guess what? It's Johnny boy's 3rd year on campus too pal. We ****ed up by not going to the Dak Coast offense after the Russell debacle that was our offense against any team with a pulse last year culminating in the horrendous Northwestern showing. We had all spring and fall but we ****ed around because Dan is an amateur and now we are who we thought we were.

[Will James]

those bowl seasons too much to bare?

In the current environment even Croom could get us to bowl games

[maroonmania]

Let's look at the juniors and seniors we had Mullen's 1st year. 6 of these 14 are seniors:

Tyson Lee, Anthony Dixon, Brandon McRae, Christian Ducre, Jamar Chaney, KJ Wright, Chris White, Zac Smith, Derek Sherrod, Pernell McPhee, Patrick Hanrahan, JC Brignone, Leon Berry.

Now let's look at this years juniors and seniors. 6 of these 23 are seniors:

Nickoe, Skinner, Siddoway, Russell, Perkins, Gabe, Autry, Wells, Virges, Preston Smith, Love, Lewis, PJ Jones, RoJo, Malcolm Johnson, Jay Hughes, Eulls, Day, Cox, Clausell, Beckwith.

How many of these guys share significant time with someone else? Russell, Perkins, RoJo, Autry, Virges, Love, Lewis, Eulls, Malcolm Johnson? All of these guys are replaceable right now except Lewis and Love. How many of those guys from Mullen's first year would you want taken off the field with what we had behind them? Maybe Zac Smith?? Everyone else from that first year was too important to take off the field.

We could never take those seniors off the field Mullen's first year because we had nothing behind them to replace them with. They were the best we had. Some of these juniors that make impacts for us are getting beat out for playing time by freshmen and sophomores with way more upside and play making ability.

To me that's the big difference. We didn't recruit well Mullen's first two years which is why we are in this predicament. Our juniors and seniors are losing playing time across the board because they aren't good enough. You can use that as an indictment on Mullen but the guy was a new head coach and was like 38 trying to rebuild the shit Croom left us in. Not really his fault. But he's recruited way better the past 3 years and you can see that on the field now because those guys are playing and taking minutes away from upperclassmen.

I'm sorry if you don't think it's a legit argument, but I think it is. We knew this was a transition year and this was one of the big reasons why. Schedule was bad but we really just don't have a lot of huge impact upperclassmen. Next year there's no excuse in my opinion because we return like 90% of our minutes played. I would bet there aren't many, if any, SEC teams returning that many minutes next year. It is a valid reason for our struggles. But there seems to be a lot of people who have already made their minds up on Mullen that can't look at situations objectively. Just get Hud and I don't care how. That's stupid.

Every program has ups and downs. We were going to have a down this year and people knew that going in. Now all of a sudden Mullen sucks, the whole staff sucks, the players suck, blah blah blah. It's a down year. Teams like ours have always had down years. If I truly felt next year would be a down year I would want Mullen gone. But it won't be. The pieces are in place for a big year. Once Mullen gets to 6 wins this year, next year won't look so bleak.

Oh I think there is no doubt that Mullen is in trouble with a decent percentage of the fanbase now PREDOMINANTLY because of his shitty recruiting in 2010 and 2011. You just can't whiff 2 recruiting years in a row and compete in this league. He's figured some of the recruiting stuff out but its still a weakness for him. So yes we are young and have underclassmen supplanting upperclassmen which is an issue but we also complicate that with coaching blunders which magnifies the issue. I certainly think we will be better going forward but we HAVE to be because right now we are at the bottom of the league grouped in with KY, Ark, TN and us. Vandy and OM have now clearly separated from us at this point. Vandy has superior coaching to us and OM just has many more playmakers than we do. Also after yesterday you may can add FL to us cellar dwellers.

[Political Hack]

In the current environment even Croom could get us to bowl games

he coached in a weaker sec west and got to one, so I hope you're kidding.

[Will James]

he coached in a weaker sec west and got to one, so I hope you're kidding.

He also played LT scheduling. We get one decent OOC and Dan is looking at game film all winter rather than practicing.

[MetEdDawg]

It's just another way the Mullen haters try to rationalize getting rid of him. Just say Croom could do it and you devalue what Mullen has done.

We are in the cellar this year yes. But we expected to be there this year. When you expect 5-6 wins, don't be surprised that you aren't beating Top 15 teams. That's stupid to even imagine. Could we have won a few? Yeah maybe, but when you expect to get 5 or 6 wins you must expect us to not come through in clutch situations. If we get 6 wins this year, our only losses would be to ranked teams that finish with 9 or more wins. It's a tough SEC and it DEFINITELY isn't your Croom's SEC.

Mullen deserves to see this through. 2014 is the year he built towards. Everything that has been done up to this point was set up for a year like 2014. Favorable schedule, stadium expansion, the QB he wants will be the unchallenged starter. It is the year that everything is supposed to fall into place. Barring injury, there is ZERO excuse next year.

The momentum starts in these last 3 games and I'm really hoping Dan can prove everyone wrong. So many people on here think they know what's best and that Dan definitely can't do it. I really want Dan to go 6-6 and make everyone on here eat their words. I'm going to go down with this ship until Dan makes me jump off. I really think he's learning a lot and if he can get back to a bowl game, we will have some momentum going forward into recruiting and into our big 2014 season.

[Political Hack]

we've got some dumbass fans. they care more about arguing and being right on a message board than they do about the well being of the program.

[Will James]

we've got some dumbass fans. they care more about arguing and being right on a message board than they do about the well being of the program.

YOU don't care about our well being because your model would have us 14th in the damn conference rather quickly. YOU are the dumbass fan for thinking we were in any way shape or form "toe to toe" yesterday. Good lord you are stupid, just a non-thinking drone.

[Goat Holder]

Great post. Very accurate.

[Jdawg]

If I had the time or energy I'd look up the youth on the OM football team that should have beat A&M and did beat LSU. I bet those numbers are comparative.

[ShotgunDawg]

Didn't Engie show we are pretty much no younger than everyone else in a post recently? I'm not buying the young bull shit and I'm not buying that Dak wasn't ready. It's his 3rd year on campus for crying out loud. Guess what? It's Johnny boy's 3rd year on campus too pal. We ****ed up by not going to the Dak Coast offense after the Russell debacle that was our offense against any team with a pulse last year culminating in the horrendous Northwestern showing. We had all spring and fall but we ****ed around because Dan is an amateur and now we are who we thought we were.

Dak was out for spring practice, and due to that, we went Tyler in the Spring and Fall. This team wasn't prepared for Dak to be their QB, and there wasn't enough hours to practice two offenses effectively during fall practice and after Tyler was hurt.

We are a very young team, MetEd wrote an enormous post proving that. I'm still on the fence though, but will be completely off of it if we beat ARK and OM. Will want him fired if we lose both or lose to Ark and get blown out by OM, but will be completely confused if we beat ARK and lose at the last minute to OM in a great game.

I'm just trying to keep the debates fair.

[ShotgunDawg]

If I had the time or energy I'd look up the youth on the OM football team that should have beat A&M and did beat LSU. I bet those numbers are comparative.

They were at home as well.

[Political Hack]

YOU don't care about our well being because your model would have us 14th in the damn conference rather quickly. YOU are the dumbass fan for thinking we were in any way shape or form "toe to toe" yesterday. Good lord you are stupid, just a non-thinking drone.

You really are the dumbest SOB on any MSU message board. We haven't been last in the sec since Dan arrived... but under your savior Croom, who ou actually defended as being just as good as Dan, had us on the doormat. You don't become Bama over night. and you don't become Bama in only five years at MSU. Suggesting that we should fire our coach over one down year is small minded without any regard for the sustainability of the program. You're seriously helpless. You're a microcosm of what's wrong with America's youth right now. "I want everything and I want it now and I don't want to have to work for and I don't want to encounter any adversity and refuse to work through it if I do." Grow. The. ****. Up.

[Will James]

one down year

I hope you don't work in stocks because you can't see the trends. You thought we went toe to toe yesterday. You've been clamoring for Russell all year. You are the dumb SOB.

Strawman alert** Find where I said Croom=Mullen asshat. I said Croom could make bowls now too. That shows you're wrong by twisting arguments. We are regressing against our competition and you are content to let it slide all the way to the bottom... with TR at QB no less!

[Political Hack]

In the current environment even Croom could get us to bowl games

You said Croom could do what CDM does. That's dumb as dirt. Stop wasting oxygen.

[Tbonewannabe]

he coacjhed in a weaker sec west and got to one, so I hope you're kidding.

Croom had to play a much better low end. Mullen has the automatic losses like bama. It really probably evens out.

[Political Hack]

Croom had to play a much better low end. Mullen has the automatic losses like bama. It really probably evens out.

Who? Arkansas?

The SEC West became the best division in college football after Saban compared losing to Croom against Pearl Harbor.

We were the crappiest team with Croom. now we actually win a few SEC games each year.

[Will James]

You said Croom could do what CDM does. That's dumb as dirt. Stop wasting oxygen.

If by "does" you mean make a bowl game then yes. That seems to be your measuring stick. You're a clown. Mullen is incompetent, you just want to fall back on "we have much bigger problems"

That's true but Dan ain't part of the solution. You don't want Hud "because the fix was in and its unfair and blah blah blah" I say good riddance. We saw what we had in Dan last year and so far this year. If we chose to not let a shit schedule force us to keep him and allow us to drop him and hire Hud I say BRILLIANT move by SS and the boys.

Newsflash: If your conspiracy IS true, the only way it works is if Mullen loses ALL of the games he's "supposed to". I actually like the OSU game now. Forces Mullen to step up against a superior and if he can't then good riddance. Thats the whole shit of your conspiracy. It's BASED ON Dan not being able to compete.

We get roasted by good teams, barely squeak by BG and UK and you say sign me up for another year. Unbelievable. So yeah, I'm more than happy Dan got exposed. It will hep our program tremendously.

[Political Hack]

he lost to Maine... how in hell are we even having this conversation? It wouldn't have mattered if we played in the MSU intrumural league, Croom would've lost his ass.

[Jdawg]

They were at home as well.

By your logic we would have lost at Kentucky and Bowling Green.

[Political Hack]

If by "does" you mean make a bowl game then yes. That seems to be your measuring stick. You're a clown. Mullen is incompetent, you just want to fall back on "we have much bigger problems"

That's true but Dan ain't part of the solution. You don't want Hud "because the fix was in and its unfair and blah blah blah" I say good riddance. We saw what we had in Dan last year and so far this year. If we chose to not let a shit schedule force us to keep him and allow us to drop him and hire Hud I say BRILLIANT move by SS and the boys.

Newsflash: If your conspiracy IS true, the only way it works is if Mullen loses ALL of the games he's "supposed to". I actually like the OSU game now. Forces Mullen to step up against a superior and if he can't then good riddance. Thats the whole shit of your conspiracy. It's BASED ON Dan not being able to compete.

We get roasted by good teams, barely squeak by BG and UK and you say sign me up for another year. Unbelievable. So yeah, I'm more than happy Dan got exposed. It will hep our program tremendously.

I'd love to have Hud, but all indications are that's not happening. I also think you dumbshit bastards announcing every flaw you can find on the internet are ****ing losers and I wish you were fans for another team. This dumbass "at Miss St we demand a great season every year" mentality is off base with reality. Carry on though...

[AROB44]

You really are the dumbest SOB on any MSU message board. We haven't been last in the sec since Dan arrived... but under your savior Croom, who ou actually defended as being just as good as Dan, had us on the doormat. You don't become Bama over night. and you don't become Bama in only five years at MSU. Suggesting that we should fire our coach over one down year is small minded without any regard for the sustainability of the program. You're seriously helpless. You're a microcosm of what's wrong with America's youth right now. "I want everything and I want it now and I don't want to have to work for and I don't want to encounter any adversity and refuse to work through it if I do." Grow. The. ****. Up.

Thank you for finally saying this.....so true.

[Will James]

This dumbass "at Miss St we demand a great season every year" mentality is off base with reality. Carry on though...

We demand to not REGRESS year after year. We demand to not get ROASTED in every big game. Our two camps are so far apart we can't even talk. You are the most extreme "All is Well" promoter here while actually bashing those who want to pursue a path to success.

[BoomBoom]

You really are the dumbest SOB on any MSU message board. We haven't been last in the sec since Dan arrived... but under your savior Croom, who ou actually defended as being just as good as Dan, had us on the doormat. You don't become Bama over night. and you don't become Bama in only five years at MSU. Suggesting that we should fire our coach over one down year is small minded without any regard for the sustainability of the program. You're seriously helpless. You're a microcosm of what's wrong with America's youth right now. "I want everything and I want it now and I don't want to have to work for and I don't want to encounter any adversity and refuse to work through it if I do." Grow. The. ****. Up.

It's not this year. It's that Dan has some very serious shortcomings as a HC that aren't just going to go away. We will continuously lose games that we should have won under Dan Mullen. He is a very below average HC and we can do much better.

[ShotgunDawg]

I would love to meet Will, Hack, Cadaver, Engie, Bluelight, etc. and have a cup of coffee so that I can better understand who I am arguing with.

[Political Hack]

It's not this year. It's that Dan has some very serious shortcomings as a HC that aren't just going to go away. We will continuously lose games that we should have won under Dan Mullen. He is a very below average HC and we can do much better.

who?

[dawgs]

You said Croom could do what CDM does. That's dumb as dirt. Stop wasting oxygen.

I think he's saying 6-6 records against 4 sun belt level teams, Kentucky, and whatever sec program is in meltdown mode isn't impressive. He overstated it saying croom could do it, but the point is that merely going to bowl games is not that impressive.

[Will James]

I think he's saying 6-6 records against 4 sun belt level teams, Kentucky, and whatever sec program is in meltdown mode isn't impressive. He overstated it saying croom could do it, but the point is that merely going to bowl games is not that impressive.

Hack knows that; he's just being, well, a hack.

[Tbonewannabe]

I'd love to have Hud, but all indications are that's not happening. I also think you dumbshit bastards announcing every flaw you can find on the internet are ****ing losers and I wish you were fans for another team. This dumbass "at Miss St we demand a great season every year" mentality is off base with reality. Carry on though...

I just demand coaches try to win a ****ing game for the entire 60 ****ing minutes. Yesterday we did that but there are more lay down games the last 2 years than the opposite. 300 batting average in baseball games is good, not in coaching effort. Do you really think we did everything possible to give our players the best chance to win against SC, OK. St., Bama last year, A&M last year, UM last year, Northwestern last year.

There is more evidence that Mullen has his head up his ass more times than not.

[cheewgumm]

Irony


we've got some dumbass fans. they care more about arguing and being right on a message board than they do about the well being of the program.

[Quaoarsking]

The SEC West is much stronger these days than in Croom's day. I highly doubt he'd make a bowl more than once every 5 years. Maybe twice if the schedule set up really well.

[cheewgumm]

I wonder from the pro Mullen crowd what their actual expectations are.

For instance next year... If we go 7-5 is that good , bad, acceptable, what?

Then the next year, how
Many do we need to win,


Does the point ever come where the coach has to win 8? If so, when?

All I hear is " we have always sucked so we should not expect to win more than 6 or 7( once we fix the schedule) and if we luck up and win 8 u should be happy."

When does that end ?

I point to the year we went to Atlanta and everyone says " the sec sucked that year". We'll we went to Atlanta and actually did compete with a big boy - Tennessee. He'll they won the national championship that year!!!!

Let's see how we compete with bama.


I'd love to have Hud, but all indications are that's not happening. I also think you dumbshit bastards announcing every flaw you can find on the internet are ****ing losers and I wish you were fans for another team. This dumbass "at Miss St we demand a great season every year" mentality is off base with reality. Carry on though...

[Tbonewannabe]

The SEC West is much stronger these days than in Croom's day. I highly doubt he'd make a bowl more than once every 5 years. Maybe twice if the schedule set up really well.

Have you really looked at the records? Most years look a lot like this year except we play 12 instead of 11. Croom's east games were typically against bowl teams or borderline bowl teams. The only difference was we didn't automatically have a national title contender. Is Bama a lot worse if they only win 10?

This is just a reason to keep Mullen since no coach in MSU history could win with this schedule.

[Tbonewannabe]

I wonder from the pro Mullen crowd what their actual expectations are.

For instance next year... If we go 7-5 is that good , bad, acceptable, what?

Then the next year, how
Many do we need to win,


Does the point ever come where the coach has to win 8? If so, when?

All I hear is " we have always sucked so we should not expect to win more than 6 or 7( once we fix the schedule) and if we luck up and win 8 u should be happy."

When does that end ?

I point to the year we went to Atlanta and everyone says " the sec sucked that year". We'll we went to Atlanta and actually did compete with a big boy - Tennessee. He'll they won the national championship that year!!!!

Let's see how we compete with bama.

I wonder if anyone has told James Franklin he has no real shot to ever compete in the SEC. Vandy is like us without the Jackie years of being the best in the West over a 4 year period.

[BoomBoom]

who?

you agree that DM is below average, but think we can't get an above average coach at MSU? or you think DM is above average and we can't get an excellent coach to come to MSU?

[BoomBoom]

I believe Hack said something along the lines of Mullen being a top 15 coach in the country

I think he could be, if not for his epic stubbornness and ego. It's like a player with 5* talent that just can't get his sh!t together, so he never amounts to anything. Mullen has the skills to be a top 15 coach, but his personality gets in the way. I guarantee you there's not a single person giving Dan advice or pointing out his mistakes, because Dan ran off or shouted down anyone who tried.