Merry Flipmas?

[Todd4State]

Let's look at how this has gone so far this year.

Makylan Pounders- 24/7 composite 3 star 0.8519 and 24/7 3 star 86

The crazy thing is he is already technically a bust for Ole Miss because they dropped him and I have no idea why you would try to flip a player you weren't 100% sure you were going to take. The Clarion-Ledger dropped the ball big time on what should be a cautionary tale for those who play games. Our staff will make sure that others are alerted however, and I can't imagine doing this to an in state player helps matters in state. Of course, when your head coach is actively looking for another job he probably doesn't care too much about the long term.


MSU replaced him with Canon Boone- 24/7 composite 3 star 0.8552 and 24/7 3 star 87


So, MSU replaced Pounders with a slightly higher rated and more versatile offensive lineman in Boone who can play center as well as guard. Win for MSU.


Brandon Buckhaulter- 24/7 composite 3 star 0.8743 and 24/7 3 star 88

At 6-3 220, He would have fit the same role as Spivey in Leach's offense. There were question marks about speed and effort however.

MSU replaced Buckhaulter with Antonio Harmon- 24/7 composite 4 star 0.9009 and 24/7 3 star 88

MSU ended up with a slightly taller and higher rated version of Buckhaulter and a player who is known for having a high work ethic. The bonus here is this one has to hurt for the Ole Miss bagman known as "The Driver" as he tries to steer anyone from his hometown....I mean comes into contact with away from MSU.

And then last but not least...

MJ Daniels- 24/7 composite 3 star 0.8872 and 24/7 4 star 92

This is the guy who played games this year and still wants to get attention. Per rumor he also put a big dent in the Ole Miss bag account to the point where they basically got over their skis and promised more than they could deliver so Daniels basically has them on credit. Hope he gets that cash!

MSU replaced him with Jalen Green a 24/7 composite 4 star 0.9762 and a 24/7 5 star 98

MSU gets a veteran P5 DB who can play FS or CB who was much higher rated. However, like a free agent signing vs. a prospect from the farm in baseball there is the argument of higher known value for 2 years in Green vs the potential 4 years with Daniels. However, given the history of Ole Miss's Flipmas elves and the apparent money issues with boosters, I'd say the odds of Daniels staying at Ole Miss is relatively low making the risk worth the reward.

Anyway, Tis the season to be jolly and laugh at Ole Miss... again.

[Cooterpoot]

Harmon is massively overrated and Green barely played last year. Green is a good get though but Im not willing to say he's better than MJ yet. He should be these next two years because he's got experience. MJ has a pretty high ceiling and has length. I expect nothing from Harmon but the same for Buckhalter. Boone over Pounders every day.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

I really doubt any of the 3 Flippers would have made it through one season of Leach

[bulldawg28]

Harmon is massively overrated and Green barely played last year. Green is a good get though but Im not willing to say he's better than MJ yet. He should be these next two years because he's got experience. MJ has a pretty high ceiling and has length. I expect nothing from Harmon but the same for Buckhalter. Boone over Pounders every day.

Green on college experience alone is better than a high school player walking in the door. It's a reason he's a 5* guy the talent is there.

[BeardoMSU]

'member Tee Shepard? Pepperidge Farm 'members.**

[msbulldog]

Let's look at how this has gone so far this year.

Makylan Pounders- 24/7 composite 3 star 0.8519 and 24/7 3 star 86

The crazy thing is he is already technically a bust for Ole Miss because they dropped him and I have no idea why you would try to flip a player you weren't 100% sure you were going to take. The Clarion-Ledger dropped the ball big time on what should be a cautionary tale for those who play games. Our staff will make sure that others are alerted however, and I can't imagine doing this to an in state player helps matters in state. Of course, when your head coach is actively looking for another job he probably doesn't care too much about the long term.


MSU replaced him with Canon Boone- 24/7 composite 3 star 0.8552 and 24/7 3 star 87


So, MSU replaced Pounders with a slightly higher rated and more versatile offensive lineman in Boone who can play center as well as guard. Win for MSU.


Brandon Buckhaulter- 24/7 composite 3 star 0.8743 and 24/7 3 star 88

At 6-3 220, He would have fit the same role as Spivey in Leach's offense. There were question marks about speed and effort however.

MSU replaced Buckhaulter with Antonio Harmon- 24/7 composite 4 star 0.9009 and 24/7 3 star 88

MSU ended up with a slightly taller and higher rated version of Buckhaulter and a player who is known for having a high work ethic. The bonus here is this one has to hurt for the Ole Miss bagman known as "The Driver" as he tries to steer anyone from his hometown....I mean comes into contact with away from MSU.

And then last but not least...

MJ Daniels- 24/7 composite 3 star 0.8872 and 24/7 4 star 92

This is the guy who played games this year and still wants to get attention. Per rumor he also put a big dent in the Ole Miss bag account to the point where they basically got over their skis and promised more than they could deliver so Daniels basically has them on credit. Hope he gets that cash!

MSU replaced him with Jalen Green a 24/7 composite 4 star 0.9762 and a 24/7 5 star 98

MSU gets a veteran P5 DB who can play FS or CB who was much higher rated. However, like a free agent signing vs. a prospect from the farm in baseball there is the argument of higher known value for 2 years in Green vs the potential 4 years with Daniels. However, given the history of Ole Miss's Flipmas elves and the apparent money issues with boosters, I'd say the odds of Daniels staying at Ole Miss is relatively low making the risk worth the reward.

Anyway, Tis the season to be jolly and laugh at Ole Miss... again.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Todd4State again.

[Ari Gold]

Harmon is massively overrated and Green barely played last year. Green is a good get though but Im not willing to say he's better than MJ yet. He should be these next two years because he's got experience. MJ has a pretty high ceiling and has length. I expect nothing from Harmon but the same for Buckhalter. Boone over Pounders every day.

The only thing MJ has over Green is he has 4 years left compared to Greens 2.
He will be impact player day 1 for us..
and minus all the bullshit that will follow MJ

[Cooterpoot]

Green on college experience alone is better than a high school player walking in the door. It's a reason he's a 5* guy the talent is there.

Oh, I agree. But long term, it's a wait and see.

[Cooterpoot]

The only thing MJ has over Green is he has 4 years left compared to Greens 2.
He will be impact player day 1 for us..
and minus all the bullshit that will follow MJ

Can't disagree. I like DBs with long arms. MJ has that. Green will be a huge upgrade. But he's got questions. I do think our defense is a better fit for him. He gives us flexibility.

[Bothrops]

I expect nothing from Harmon

Why?

[Dawgfan77]

Why?

Slow foot speed very raw WR. Will add mass. More of a TE prospect. Aubrey Bell is a decent comparison

[Bothrops]

Slow foot speed very raw WR. Will add mass. More of a TE prospect. Aubrey Bell is a decent comparison

Does he have a decent catch radius? Is he not physical at all?

[Jarius]

Harmon is basically Spivey with better hands. He can be a red zone target but I don’t expect a ton. Knox will be an all SEC guy if he reaches his potential and Polk is basically Osirus Mitchell with better upside.

[CaptainObvious]

Our fans are our worst enemies. Oh, I may criticize the players throughout a game when they screw up, but I never criticize the new guys who want to come in and play for MSU before they ever step on the field. Some of you can brag on Daniels all you want. But he was used by our arch rival to play games. I hope he has struggles at Mississippi. I saw him play a couple of times and he wasn?t special. Me thinks the hype may be a bit exaggerated.

[KOdawg1]

I've saved this thread for future use..

[vv83]

Harmon is basically Spivey with better hands. He can be a red zone target but I don?t expect a ton. Knox will be an all SEC guy if he reaches his potential and Polk is basically Osirus Mitchell with better upside.

I?ve heard so many times on this board how Spivey will be an all star when he gets it all together, but now Harmon who is ?Spivey with better hands? won?t be any good. Weird

[Jarius]

I?ve heard so many times on this board how Spivey will be an all star when he gets it all together, but now Harmon who is ?Spivey with better hands? won?t be any good. Weird

Ok. Everyone we signed is going to be an All American.I did not say Harmon was not going to be any good. We will be able to use Harmon in situations. He is a big body that can get position and be a possession guy and win battles in the red zone. He is not going to be the feature guy in this offense like Tulu or a Knox or Malik Heath or Payton or Walley has the potential to be because of their skill set.

[maroonmania]

I really doubt any of the 3 Flippers would have made it through one season of Leach

This is the primary reason I'm glad we've got the guys we got. There is no point in us even signing players that need coddling or are looking for special treatment. They just absolutely won't last under Leach. Probably would have worked under Moorhead because he was an excellent coddler, but not Leach. SO, it really doesn't matter if we did better or worse on the talent scale with the flips and their replacements, what is the most important factor is that we likely got replacement guys MUCH more willing to fall in line with Leach's methods and become contributors. I have no doubt that Daniels and Buckhalter would have ended up in the portal even if we had signed them. We just don't need any more Fabian Lovetts or Jarrian Jones type players on our roster. THEY WON"T LAST. So their talent level doesn't really matter because we know they would not have stuck it out under Leach. One thing I've seen in Leach's coaching career is that he doesn't need the most talented guy to be successful, he really needs the most dedicated and the most coachable guy and he will do just fine. It was that way at TTU and WSU and it will be the same way here.

[Walkerhill]

Ok. Everyone we signed is going to be an All American.I did not say Harmon was not going to be any good. We will be able to use Harmon in situations. He is a big body that can get position and be a possession guy and win battles in the red zone. He is not going to be the feature guy in this offense like Tulu or a Knox or Malik Heath or Payton or Walley has the potential to be because of their skill set.

I think people are missing the point here. Ole Miss is all about perception. The point of flipmas is to publicly undermine State with a petty recruiting gambit and to undermine our recruiting with late hurdles. They are all about winning the press conference publicly and dirty, underhanded tricks privately.

The point of the poster I think is that unlike Dan or Joe this staff, through a combination of luck and planning, just went about their business with components that arguably equivalent, and from here we just has to see how it all shakes out.

I would say they could have closed better, but in general this staff is very professional and they will not be caught flat footed by SEC recruiting tactics a second time.

As an aside, it is crazy we always end up talking about the last minute commitments for months - these are the high drama kids who create or participate in these tug of war scenarios for attention. The players who made a commitment early and stuck by it are the ones worth talking about. But human nature, I guess.

[bulldawg28]

I think people are missing the point here. Ole Miss is all about perception. The point of flipmas is to publicly undermine State with a petty recruiting gambit and to undermine our recruiting with late hurdles. They are all about winning the press conference publicly and dirty, underhanded tricks privately.

The point of the poster I think is that unlike Dan or Joe this staff, through a combination of luck and planning, just went about their business with components that arguably equivalent, and from here we just has to see how it all shakes out.

I would say they could have closed better, but in general this staff is very professional and they will not be caught flat footed by SEC recruiting tactics a second time.

As an aside, it is crazy we always end up talking about the last minute commitments for months - these are the high drama kids who create or participate in these tug of war scenarios for attention. The players who made a commitment early and stuck by it are the ones worth talking about. But human nature, I guess.

Great post!

[msbulldog]

I think people are missing the point here. Ole Miss is all about perception. The point of flipmas is to publicly undermine State with a petty recruiting gambit and to undermine our recruiting with late hurdles. They are all about winning the press conference publicly and dirty, underhanded tricks privately.

The point of the poster I think is that unlike Dan or Joe this staff, through a combination of luck and planning, just went about their business with components that arguably equivalent, and from here we just has to see how it all shakes out.

I would say they could have closed better, but in general this staff is very professional and they will not be caught flat footed by SEC recruiting tactics a second time.

As an aside, it is crazy we always end up talking about the last minute commitments for months - these are the high drama kids who create or participate in these tug of war scenarios for attention. The players who made a commitment early and stuck by it are the ones worth talking about. But human nature, I guess.

Well, ole miss shit in their lunch kit with the Pounders deal high school coaches all over this state will remember that!

[BogeyGolfer]

Harmon is massively overrated and Green barely played last year. Green is a good get though but Im not willing to say he's better than MJ yet. He should be these next two years because he's got experience. MJ has a pretty high ceiling and has length. I expect nothing from Harmon but the same for Buckhalter. Boone over Pounders every day.

High School players can add weight and even grow by the time they finish their 4-5 years in college. Harmon will do fine, a big physical body is an absolute weapon no matter how the foot speed time outs. Bear Wilson was slow, but could run a decent route and get in position to make plays....We will see about Harmon....

[Cooterpoot]

High School players can add weight and even grow by the time they finish their 4-5 years in college. Harmon will do fine, a big physical body is an absolute weapon no matter how the foot speed time outs. Bear Wilson was slow, but could run a decent route and get in position to make plays....We will see about Harmon....

He was our 4th option at that spot and only got it because Johnson didn't have the grades. He's not an SEC WR. Had no P5 committable offers. Bear was 10 times the athlete.
Think we signed 3 or 4 guys that just aren't good enough and he's one. Hope he proves me wrong.

[Dawgfan77]

He was our 4th option at that spot and only got it because Johnson didn't have the grades. He's not an SEC WR. Had no P5 committable offers. Bear was 10 times the athlete.
Think we signed 3 or 4 guys that just aren't good enough and he's one. Hope he proves me wrong.

I'm speculating here but
Hampton
Cavous (already left team)
Harmon
And one of the Juco OL

[Hambone]

Gabe has already left the team??

[maroonmania]

He was our 4th option at that spot and only got it because Johnson didn't have the grades. He's not an SEC WR. Had no P5 committable offers. Bear was 10 times the athlete.
Think we signed 3 or 4 guys that just aren't good enough and he's one. Hope he proves me wrong.

Boy, that is a pretty severe criticism of Harmon when you say a guy with 4.9 speed is 10 times the athlete. The thing that made Bear a good WR at the college level was his body size and ability to shield off defenders and go get the ball. He was certainly not the greatest athlete.

[BrunswickDawg]

Boy, that is a pretty severe criticism of Harmon when you say a guy with 4.9 speed is 10 times the athlete. The thing that made Bear a good WR at the college level was his body size and ability to shield off defenders and go get the ball. He was certainly not the greatest athlete.

IIRCC - Bear didn't even play football until his SR year in HS. So, he basically learned to play WR in the SEC. That takes a helluva athlete - regardless of his actual speed.

It makes me laugh at how differently our fans react to a 4* signee vs. our friends in Oxford - MSU: "he's really overrated, had no other 'committable' offers (even though 247 shows Texas, Oregon, OM and UGA)"; OM: "our 4*s are the greatest!!!!! They should really be 5* they are going to change the program!!!!"

[Ari Gold]

So some bitch because we don’t have 85 man roster, then bitch because they speculate that some of the signing class won’t pan out..
when has more than 3/4 of a signing class ever gotten significant playing time .?

Who would have thought Ben Beckwith a walk on would have been as good as he was. On the the flip side Joe Morrow a high 4 star had less than a stellar career.

If some of these guys get here and aren’t moving up the depth chart or just aren’t SEC caliber guys odds are they will move on elsewhere sooner than later..

[Ari Gold]

I'm speculating here but
Hampton
Cavous (already left team)
Harmon
And one of the Juco OL


Cavous Is still a wait and see what the deal is.
And if just 4 guys from the signing class don’t make an impact the 2021 will be the greatest signing class in the history of MSU football...

[Johnson85]

As an aside, it is crazy we always end up talking about the last minute commitments for months - these are the high drama kids who create or participate in these tug of war scenarios for attention. The players who made a commitment early and stuck by it are the ones worth talking about. But human nature, I guess.

There is very little correlation between who fans are worried about on signing day and who ends up being important. I don't remember anything about B. Mckinney, but we all knew who CJ johnson was. Knew who Snoop or whatever his name was but didn't know who Kendrick Market was except they were teammates.

There's certainly some correlation. We all knew who Chris Jones was. Knew who AJ was. Knew who MOncrief was. Dak was a big deal (to us) as a recruit. But there are players like KJ Wright? Jonathan Banks? Don't remember a lot of discussion of them. And on the flipside everybody knew who the deaf defensive back was that flamed out at Ole Miss. Knew who the undersized WR/DB that orchestrated a flip (can't even come up with his name now), tobias singleton, etc.

[Dawgfan77]

Cavous Is still a wait and see what the deal is.
And if just 4 guys from the signing class don’t make an impact the 2021 will be the greatest signing class in the history of MSU football...
Yeah from my understanding he won't be back. I won't get into specifics but most here can use deductive reasoning

[Cooterpoot]

Cavous Is still a wait and see what the deal is.
And if just 4 guys from the signing class don’t make an impact the 2021 will be the greatest signing class in the history of MSU football...

Correct

[Cooterpoot]

IIRCC - Bear didn't even play football until his SR year in HS. So, he basically learned to play WR in the SEC. That takes a helluva athlete - regardless of his actual speed.

It makes me laugh at how differently our fans react to a 4* signee vs. our friends in Oxford - MSU: "he's really overrated, had no other 'committable' offers (even though 247 shows Texas, Oregon, OM and UGA)"; OM: "our 4*s are the greatest!!!!! They should really be 5* they are going to change the program!!!!"

Not a single one of those schools had a spot for Harmon. Not one. That's fact, not fiction. OM is all about some fiction. I prefer reality. Harmon will have the chance to prove people wrong.

[HancockCountyDog]

I'm speculating here but
Hampton
Cavous (already left team)
Harmon
And one of the Juco OL

Is this accurate on the Cavazous or is this a typo? I didn't have big expectations, but I did expect him to make it to August. Can someone confirm, this doesn't sound right.

[HancockCountyDog]

Not a single one of those schools had a spot for Harmon. Not one. That's fact, not fiction. OM is all about some fiction. I prefer reality. Harmon will have the chance to prove people wrong.

I always thought Harmon would make an interesting TE prospect. Way too early to call him a boom or bust. I know he had genuine interest from about 30 schools over a year ago.

[Jarius]

Is this accurate on the Cavazous or is this a typo? I didn't have big expectations, but I did expect him to make it to August. Can someone confirm, this doesn't sound right.

He got homesick and left. He may come back but no one knows. As of now he isn’t with the team.

[HancockCountyDog]

He got homesick and left. He may come back but no one knows. As of now he isn’t with the team.

Hope he comes back - that sucks for us, we lose that scholarship if he doesn't come back. We get it back next year, but that is next year.

[Johnson85]

He got homesick and left. He may come back but no one knows. As of now he isn’t with the team.

The homesickness thing always gets me. People are obviously wired differently, but I still have trouble wrapping my mind around it.

When I got to Starkville, it was the greatest thing ever. It's not like most people in Mississippi are coming from these great towns or cities. I came from a relatively nice place for Mississippi. Had some advantages over Starkville and looks nicer, but it still generally was not and is not as good as Starkville. Even if you come from a nice place, it's not like your home town was going to have another, what, 4k other people your age going through the same experiences. I get missing family, but just surprising to me how many people actually go back home because of it considering how great college can be. Seems to happen disproportionately with athletes, which if it really does and it's not just more noticeable, that would I guess make some sense as 5am workouts may not seem like such a great replacement for family being near compared to making new friends shooting the shit and hanging out and drinking and chasing girls.

[maroonmania]

He got homesick and left. He may come back but no one knows. As of now he isn’t with the team.

I find that highly suspicious. Must be more to the story. The dude is actually from MS and can't even make it in Starkville until the drop/add date? That just doesn't sound right.

[Johnson85]

I find that highly suspicious. Must be more to the story. The dude is actually from MS and can't even make it in Starkville until the drop/add date? That just doesn't sound right.

I don't know. He's like 30 minutes from Memphis and an hour from Ole Miss. Starkville is more like 2 and a half hours I think. Seems ridiculous but I knew people that went back home to the community college that was 20 minutes away from home because they were homesick in Starkville being an hour or an hour and a half away from home. And people that left MSU and Ole Miss to do a 30 to 45 minute commute to DSU because they were homesick.

[maroonmania]

I don't know. He's like 30 minutes from Memphis and an hour from Ole Miss. Starkville is more like 2 and a half hours I think. Seems ridiculous but I knew people that went back home to the community college that was 20 minutes away from home because they were homesick in Starkville being an hour or an hour and a half away from home. And people that left MSU and Ole Miss to do a 30 to 45 minute commute to DSU because they were homesick.

If you can't make it 2.5 hours away from home where you can easily go home every weekend if you want, you might as well forget football and go home and get your education online or be a non-resident commuter student somewhere.

[Johnson85]

If you can't make it 2.5 hours away from home where you can easily go home every weekend if you want, you might as well forget football and go home and get your education online or be a non-resident commuter student somewhere.

No doubt. But I think a lot (most?) of those people end up giving a four year college another try and doing ok with it. Off hand, I can think of two people that left Ole Miss because of homesickness. One went back to ole miss after JUCO and was fine. One went to DSU and was probably not quite fine, but at least graduated. I'm sure there are a lot more people I know that have done something similar and I'm just not aware of it. In most Mississippi towns, it shouldn't take but a semester or two to realize that being at home while your friends are at college sucks just as bad or worse than being at college and being homesick.

[maroonmania]

No doubt. But I think a lot (most?) of those people end up giving a four year college another try and doing ok with it. Off hand, I can think of two people that left Ole Miss because of homesickness. One went back to ole miss after JUCO and was fine. One went to DSU and was probably not quite fine, but at least graduated. I'm sure there are a lot more people I know that have done something similar and I'm just not aware of it. In most Mississippi towns, it shouldn't take but a semester or two to realize that being at home while your friends are at college sucks just as bad or worse than being at college and being homesick.

Yea, and all of those things are fine for regular students but those are not really options if a guy really wants to play major college football.