Welcome to the SEC Leach and staff

[KOdawg1]

They're finding out how cut throat this conference is. In the span of 24 hours, we've lost the #1 Juco LB in the country (who would've started for us next year), our top WR in Malik Nabers, and MJ Daniels to Ole Miss.

Pitiful and pathetic finish. They got absolutely worked. You can get these guys to commit months in advance, but if you can't close on them, it means absolutely nothing.

[Dawgface]

So do the coaches personally cough up the money to outbid our rivals? Or how does it work.....

[KOdawg1]

So do the coaches personally cough up the money to outbid our rivals? Or how does it work.....

Coaches don't deal with the money.

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

This isn?t on the coaches. It on ?our network?.

[msstate7]

This isn?t on the coaches. It on ?our network?.

It was on Mullen when it happened to him

[bluelightstar]

has leach ever been a good recruiter? Not sure why anyone thought it'd be different here

[Jack Lambert]

It was on Mullen when it happened to him

Mullen got hit every year and never learned.

[Jack Lambert]

We lost a 3 star to Ole Miss and a 4 star to LSU. If they want to pay money for that let them and move. For some reason those loses do not disturb me at all.

[Extendedcab]

It does not bother me either, we need to take the high road as best we can!

[KOdawg1]

We lost a 3 star to Ole Miss and a 4 star to LSU. If they want to pay money for that let them and move. For some reason those loses do not disturb me at all.

MJ Daniels is a 247sports 4 star and is a stud. It's a huge loss.

[bluelightstar]

MJ Daniels is a 247sports 4 star and is a stud. It's a huge loss.

Not to mention this looks like our worst class in years. Have to hope this is a 2011.

[Saltydog]

Good guys finish last......You've got to play the game in this league, you just do.........

[KOdawg1]

Good guys finish last......You've got to play the game in this league, you just do.........

This. But some would rather lose by being "clean" than win by playing the game.

[Jack Lambert]

MJ Daniels is a 247sports 4 star and is a stud. It's a huge loss.

I look at the composite. I don't care what one recruiting service say. Anyways so what. We lose guys to them every year and they lose to us. You should be use to the crap by now. I expect nothing less than the flipmas from Ole Miss every year. This why Ole Miss rather win the recruiting than the game. They know too many of you let it get under their skin. Their whole purpose of recruiting is to say they beat us.

[bulldawg28]

I look at the composite. I don't care what one recruiting service say. Anyways so what. We lose guys to them every year and they lose to us. You should be use to the crap by now. I expect nothing less than the flipmas from Ole Miss every year.

Yep, agreed.

[Maroonthirteen]

This isn?t on the coaches. It on ?our network?.

Yep. In the year of covid, "dead period", no official visits......it was up to telephone calls, tweets and DMs. Also, locals and "the network" stepping up to "show the love". All those things are simply things that State fans (vast majority) aren't interested in doing.


I remember as far back as the mid 80s. When those two brothers from West Point were a lock for State. THen Brewer showed up and signed them. Its been the same ever since.

[Dawgology]

This. But some would rather lose by being "clean" than win by playing the game.

MSU mindset. Lose on principles.

[confucius say]

MJ Daniels is a 247sports 4 star and is a stud. It's a huge loss.

And a composite 3 star. Meaning a 3 star by everybody else. Still a loss though, no doubt.

[confucius say]

Guys, this is an MSU issue. Not a leach issue. It happened with joe, dan, sly, JWS.
It is why developing and the ability to coach will always be more important here.

[msstatelp1]

Good guys finish last......You've got to play the game in this league, you just do.........

Well, playing the game hasn't done much for OM.

[Commercecomet24]

Guys, this is an MSU issue. Not a leach issue. It happened with joe, dan, sly, JWS.
It is why developing and the ability to coach will always be more important here.

This.

[Mobile Bay]

MSU mindset. Lose on principles.

It is better than winning with no principles.

[KOdawg1]

It is better than winning with no principles.

Nah, I'd rather win.

[confucius say]

This.

And I'll add, for those who are so beholden to recruiting stars, you'd think there would be a little more celebration on here about Robertson today.
If you love recruiting, he is by 1.5 points the highest rated recruit signed by any school in MS today, and he plays the most important position in football. Nary a word here today.

Leach's blueprint is the same as mullen (get your qb and develop around him with old veteran guys), we just don't realize it.

[Dawgology]

It is better than winning with no principles.

So you get to claim moral superiority every year in last place. What a loser mentality.

[Commercecomet24]

And I'll add, for those who are so beholden to recruiting stars, you'd think there would be a little more celebration on here about Robertson today.
If you love recruiting, he is by 1.5 points the highest rated recruit signed by any school in MS today, and he plays the most important position in football. Nary a word here today.

Leach's blueprint is the same as mullen (get your qb and develop around him with old veteran guys), we just don't realize it.

Great point.

[Dawgology]

And I'll add, for those who are so beholden to recruiting stars, you'd think there would be a little more celebration on here about Robertson today.
If you love recruiting, he is by 1.5 points the highest rated recruit signed by any school in MS today, and he plays the most important position in football. Nary a word here today.

Leach's blueprint is the same as mullen (get your qb and develop around him with old veteran guys), we just don't realize it.

Excellent! Maybe we will have a winning season in a few years then. Solid strategy.

[maroonmania]

Coaches don't deal with the money.

No, coaches don't deal with the money but they darn sure orchestrate and direct where resources go when needed. Money people rarely just go do things rogue and when they do its usually when you get yourself into trouble.

[maroonmania]

It is better than winning with no principles.

If you want principles I would just give up college football anyway. The recruiting rules are set up just like everything else in college football to keep the elite programs elite and to keep the losing programs losing. We have the glut of scholarships that allows the elite programs to sign up the bulk of all the real difference making talent and then the NCAA enforces rules subjectively to primarily hit lesser programs if they try to get out of their place. College football is not a good product right now but nobody will ever change it because its only the top 10 to 15 programs that the networks and money people care about anyway.

[thf24]

I'm not losing sleep over guys who play this OM game anymore. A glance at the numbers says they turn out to be meaningful contributors at any point in their careers about 30% of the time, and even those that do rarely live up to their recruiting projection.

The LSU flips hurt, no doubt, but there's no point in being surprised when a Louisiana kid picks LSU in the end... though it is particularly frustrating that they picked an obviously sinking ship in this case.

[maroonmania]

I'm not losing sleep over guys who play this OM game anymore. A glance at the numbers says they turn out to be meaningful contributors at any point in their careers about 30% of the time, and even those that do rarely live up to their recruiting projection.

The LSU flips hurt, no doubt, but there's no point in being surprised when an Louisiana kid picks LSU in the end... though it is particularly frustrating that they picked an obviously sinking ship in this case.

Probably would have helped if our ship had looked a little better this season.

[yjnkdawg]

They're finding out how cut throat this conference is. In the span of 24 hours, we've lost the #1 Juco LB in the country (who would've started for us next year), our top WR in Malik Nabers, and MJ Daniels to Ole Miss.

Pitiful and pathetic finish. They got absolutely worked. You can get these guys to commit months in advance, but if you can't close on them, it means absolutely nothing.

If LSU really want a LA recruit, then they normally get him. There are a few exceptions, but not many. And we all know how OM and The Network play the recruiting game.

[yjnkdawg]

Probably would have helped if our ship had looked a little better this season.


I'm not sure that would have mattered concerning those two flips and the situations surrounding the reasons for flipping.

[maroonmania]

If LSU really want a LA recruit, then they normally get him. There are a few exceptions, but not many. And we all know how OM and The Network play the recruiting game.

Given OM was basically able to poach TWO players off our current roster during the summer (even though they weren't allowed to keep them) then I guess it should be no surprise that they would take away a few recruits who hadn't even signed with us yet.

[bulldawg28]

Hit the portal and get everything you need

[Dogbone]

Hit the portal and get everything you need

This

[yjnkdawg]

No, coaches don't deal with the money but they darn sure orchestrate and direct where resources go when needed. Money people rarely just go do things rogue and when they do its usually when you get yourself into trouble.



Not necessarily true. The HC does have some say in where the legitimate resources may go, and may suggest some players they really want (to the money people), but the orchestration and who is actually paid is all done from off campus.

[R2Dawg]

Good guys finish last......You've got to play the game in this league, you just do.........

Well Leach has to get his guys in here, you know those 1-2 star guys to be successful here. Sarcasm for those that don't see it.

[R2Dawg]

If you want principles I would just give up college football anyway. The recruiting rules are set up just like everything else in college football to keep the elite programs elite and to keep the losing programs losing. We have the glut of scholarships that allows the elite programs to sign up the bulk of all the real difference making talent and then the NCAA enforces rules subjectively to primarily hit lesser programs if they try to get out of their place. College football is not a good product right now but nobody will ever change it because its only the top 10 to 15 programs that the networks and money people care about anyway.

Most true post in the thread. If we continue towards the bottom the next few years, I will be forced to find additional hobbies. I just want to compete now with the way the deck is stacked against us.

[Todd4State]

It seems to me like most of the guys that flipped were on the defensive side of the ball. We're going to have to straighten that up next year.

[yjnkdawg]

has leach ever been a good recruiter? Not sure why anyone thought it'd be different here


The reasons for those flips didn't have anything to do with whether CML is a good recruter or not. Our defense is better than the defenses where the two defensive flips went, and the offensive flip is a LA kid so if LSU really wanted him, everybody pretty much knew that they would get him.

[msstate7]

Robertson has to pan out. If he's the stud many of us think, it can offset some of the beating we took today.

[confucius say]

Robertson has to pan out. If he's the stud many of us think, it can offset some of the beating we took today.

It will offset all of it if he is the stud we think he is.

Also, beating? We came into today at 34 in 247 rankings. We are now 34. We lost nabers and Daniels and gained price and Harmon. An apparent wash according to recruiting rankings, which I guess is all we have to go off of right now.

We are letting kiffin and his "toxic" tweets affect our view of reality.

[R2Dawg]

Robertson has to pan out. If he's the stud many of us think, it can offset some of the beating we took today.

Maybe but I don't think that is the way to go to have a solid program. Put your entire program and O on one guy. As said in other threads, if he has a bad day you go down as a team. I prefer teams talented in the trenches, on D and talent spread across the board.

[msstate7]

It will offset all of it if he is the stud we think he is.

Also, beating? We came into today at 34 in 247 rankings. We are now 34. We lost nabers and Daniels and gained price and Harmon. An apparent wash according to recruiting rankings, which I guess is all we have to go off of right now.

We are letting kiffin and his "toxic" tweets affect our view of reality.

We lost 3 good players that we wanted bad to programs we play every year. Where would we be if we held on to those 3?

[confucius say]

We lost 3 good players that we wanted bad to programs we play every year. Where would we be if we held on to those 3?

Higher in the recruiting rankings for sure. And I certainly wish we held on to those three. But if we are harping on the losses, it makes sense to harp on the three additions we got today too (Boone, price, and Harmon).

[Dawgface]

Coaches don't deal with the money.

I should have put up ** after my post. My point is how is Leach or any coach suppose to close out the recruiting process? Slick talk only goes so far in today's recruiting.

[Mobile Bay]

So you get to claim moral superiority every year in last place. What a loser mentality.

You would fit right in in Oxford.

[DEDawg]

It will offset all of it if he is the stud we think he is.

Also, beating? We came into today at 34 in 247 rankings. We are now 34. We lost nabers and Daniels and gained price and Harmon. An apparent wash according to recruiting rankings, which I guess is all we have to go off of right now.

We are letting kiffin and his "toxic" tweets affect our view of reality.

Geez cope harder. We lose 2 4 stars and an immediate starter next year. Stop being complacent, it?s not a wash.

[Jarius]

Well, playing the game hasn't done much for OM.

It's done a good bit for every team in the SEC. Especially those that win. Just because Ole Miss is too stupid to run a football program with highly rated players doesn't mean that we would be. Every single team that wins at all in this league cheats their ass off. Paying players isn't even going to be against NCAA rules soon. This moral high ground bullshit our fans have is retarded.

[KOdawg1]

It's done a good bit for every team in the SEC. Especially those that win. Just because Ole Miss is too stupid to run a football program with highly rated players doesn't mean that we would be. Every single team that wins at all in this league cheats their ass off. Paying players isn't even going to be against NCAA rules soon. This moral high ground bullshit our fans have is retarded.

This. All. Day.

Some of y'all need to wake up. Kids are getting paid. Everyone does it, including us. We just aren't as invested in it as others, which is why we get our brains beat in on days like today. Want to start moving forward instead of backwards as a football program?

Step 1: Fire Bracky Brett

Step 2: Get serious and start investing in recruiting like it's a sport. Because it is.

Step 3: Play the game in a smart way. Don't be like Ole Miss and jump all the way to #4 in one year. But play the game like everyone else does.

[msstate7]

OM was one of the luckiest plays in CFB history away from getting to Atlanta on the back of a huge cheating class

[StateDawg44]

It's done a good bit for every team in the SEC. Especially those that win. Just because Ole Miss is too stupid to run a football program with highly rated players doesn't mean that we would be. Every single team that wins at all in this league cheats their ass off. Paying players isn't even going to be against NCAA rules soon. This moral high ground bullshit our fans have is retarded.

And we think we are struggling on days like today NOW???

The rich will only get richer.

[Leroy Jenkins]

Louisiana WR's haven't been good to us recently: Whop, Guidry.

[DEDawg]

Louisiana WR's haven't been good to us recently: Whop, Guidry.

yeah there's a reason we can only get the ones that LSU doesn't offer

[hailstate88]

Well, playing the game hasn't done much for OM.

No it has not. And karma will catch up to them once again for sketchy recruiting activities

[KOdawg1]

No it has not. And karma will catch up to them once again for sketchy recruiting activities
It won't if they're smart about it this time.

[Jarius]

No it has not. And karma will catch up to them once again for sketchy recruiting activities

It is literally not even going to be against the rules to pay players in less than a year. This is what MSU fans tell themselves to make themselves feel better about losing players we want. Do you think we went to 10 straight bowl games and signed multiple top 25 classes without paying players? They have more people that give a shit about winning than we do. We aren’t morally superior. We just don’t want to win.

[confucius say]

Geez cope harder. We lose 2 4 stars and an immediate starter next year. Stop being complacent, it?s not a wash.

Losing Daniels sucks. But we are the only fan base that will call a composite 3 star who is ranked a 4 star by one service a four star when we lose him. It truly is a sight to see.

Also, why do you declare strong an immediate starter, bc our staff did not guarantee him that. I certainly would like to have him though

[ShotgunDawg]

Guys, this is an MSU issue. Not a leach issue. It happened with joe, dan, sly, JWS.
It is why developing and the ability to coach will always be more important here.

Correct. 100% an MSU issue

[Todd4State]

It is literally not even going to be against the rules to pay players in less than a year. This is what MSU fans tell themselves to make themselves feel better about losing players we want. Do you think we went to 10 straight bowl games and signed multiple top 25 classes without paying players? They have more people that give a shit about winning than we do. We aren’t morally superior. We just don’t want to win.

Yep.

[Todd4State]

This. All. Day.

Some of y'all need to wake up. Kids are getting paid. Everyone does it, including us. We just aren't as invested in it as others, which is why we get our brains beat in on days like today. Want to start moving forward instead of backwards as a football program?

Step 1: Fire Bracky Brett

Step 2: Get serious and start investing in recruiting like it's a sport. Because it is.

Step 3: Play the game in a smart way. Don't be like Ole Miss and jump all the way to #4 in one year. But play the game like everyone else does.

I agree. Thing is we don't even have to fire Bracky. Just re-assign him to do the other sports and hire lawyers to handle football.

I can't ever see us getting a top five class without cheating at a ridiculous level honestly no matter what.

[ShotgunDawg]

I agree. Thing is we don't even have to fire Bracky. Just re-assign him to do the other sports and hire lawyers to handle football.

I can't ever see us getting a top five class without cheating at a ridiculous level honestly no matter what.

You start by trying to get in the top 20. That's just only 2-3 more 4 stars a year

[Todd4State]

You start by trying to get in the top 20. That's just only 2-3 more 4 stars a year

I agree that's realistic for us. Part of our problem is we have players that aren't evaluated correctly.

Sawyer Robertson probably should be a five star and Albert Reese and Jacobi Moore should be four star guys.

And the recruiting web sites don't even pay attention to JUCO's. They just get a blanket three star rating even if you are Montez Sweat.

[Extendedcab]

I agree that's realistic for us. Part of our problem is we have players that aren't evaluated correctly.

Sawyer Robertson probably should be a five star and Albert Reese and Jacobi Moore should be four star guys.

And the recruiting web sites don't even pay attention to JUCO's. They just get a blanket three star rating even if you are Montez Sweat.

What is the complaint if our recruits are initially under rated and yet they turn out to be 4/5 star talents? Is the overall program recruiting rating the issue? You want to be in the top 10?

[Cowbell]

This. All. Day.

Some of y'all need to wake up. Kids are getting paid. Everyone does it, including us. We just aren't as invested in it as others, which is why we get our brains beat in on days like today. Want to start moving forward instead of backwards as a football program?

Step 1: Fire Bracky Brett

Step 2: Get serious and start investing in recruiting like it's a sport. Because it is.

Step 3: Play the game in a smart way. Don't be like Ole Miss and jump all the way to #4 in one year. But play the game like everyone else does.

Homedawg is going to get his feelings hurt if you keep it up :)

[maroonmania]

My problem with it is not being able to sign players that we commit that are close in proximity. If we could just do that I would feel a ton better. We are obviously in the game enough to commit guys but not enough to sign them? Or is it that we just have some recruits that commit to us for no other reason than to raise the bids from other schools? Assuming Nabors never had a committable offer from LSU until the past few days and he has always wanted to play there being a LA kid, that is understandable, but losing Strong and Daniels not so much. But bottom line, I don't really get that upset about recruits who never say they are coming to MSU. For example, AJ Brown NEVER pledged anything to us, so I don't really harbor any ill will. CJ Johnson on the other hand I despise.

[Gypsy_RoadDawg]

LSU beating Florida and our loss to Auburn I believe were instrumental in losing Strong to LSU. The loss of Daniels was probably planned from the beginning.

[defiantdog]

LSU beating Florida and our loss to Auburn I believe were instrumental in losing Strong to LSU. The loss of Daniels was probably planned from the beginning.

One game doesn't lose a recruit. LSU may have sucked this year but an offer from LSU means more to these kids than an offer from MSU. Sorry..... It sucks but it's true.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

My problem with it is not being able to sign players that we commit that are close in proximity. If we could just do that I would feel a ton better. We are obviously in the game enough to commit guys but not enough to sign them? Or is it that we just have some recruits that commit to us for no other reason than to raise the bids from other schools? Assuming Nabors never had a committable offer from LSU until the past few days and he has always wanted to play there being a LA kid, that is understandable, but losing Strong and Daniels not so much. But bottom line, I don't really get that upset about recruits who never say they are coming to MSU. For example, AJ Brown NEVER pledged anything to us, so I don't really harbor any ill will. CJ Johnson on the other hand I despise.

We're a good back up plan. Kids get interest -but not commitable offers- from Bama/Auburn/LSU/etc, so they commit to us and flip of the big name misses their top guy and comes calling. Even pounders used us like this as he waited on an OM offer that never came.

I do think John Emory used us to get $$$ though. 1 trip to UGA and we went to them out of nowhere, then he flips to LSU and has a shiny new F150.

We will never, EVER, be able to get kids chasing $$$ or big name schools unless they arent good enough to have those options. OM is who we can beat more than we currently do because they dont have the big name and we can hypothetically play the game closer to their level, but we cant offer what LSU does.

[Captain Falcon]

There is no way on God's green earth that we are going to up and fire Bracky, and I've always had major doubts about whether he is as much of a problem for us as internet sites have made him out to be. Anyone with actual inside knowledge would probably tell you that he's done a lot more good than bad for MSU over the years.

That being said, I'm pretty sure he is in his 60's now so those of you who are begging for him to be gone will probably get your wish within the next 5-10 years if not sooner.

[CaptainObvious]

There is an NCAA enforcement officer monitoring this board. ****

[thf24]

There is no way on God's green earth that we are going to up and fire Bracky, and I've always had major doubts about whether he is as much of a problem for us as internet sites have made him out to be. Anyone with actual inside knowledge would probably tell you that he's done a lot more good than bad for MSU over the years.

That being said, I'm pretty sure he is in his 60's now so those of you who are begging for him to be gone will probably get your wish within the next 5-10 years if not sooner.

Our approach to compliance is almost certainly above Bracky's head. He's just the scapegoat for our fanbase's frustration when it appears we're not playing the game on the same level as our competitors. Without explicit evidence, it's absurd to believe that a single person or office is responsible for keeping us out of the big leagues and has been doing so against the wishes of all the various interests involved for almost two decades.

[Percho]

If they came out and said, No more rules. Just buy who you want. Where would that leave MSU. I will tell you where I believe it would leave us. We would close down the program or you would have schools that buy and you would have the church league and we would be a part of the church league because we could not compete with the buyers.

[maroonmania]

Our approach to compliance is almost certainly above Bracky's head. He's just the scapegoat for our fanbase's frustration when it appears we're not playing the game on the same level as our competitors. Without explicit evidence, it's absurd to believe that a single person or office is responsible for keeping us out of the big leagues and has been doing so against the wishes of all the various interests involved for almost two decades.

No, our approach to compliance is here Mr. NCAA, these are all the violations we've committed, no need in you even having to investigate to find out. And we can also provide you this really nice hammer to hit us over the head with. Approach of most of the SEC (and definitely OM) is deny, deny, deny. If Mr. NCAA wants to find something on them then they have to investigate and prove it. And then even when they do investigate and find more Level 1 violations on them than any case in history (like the OM case), the punishment is not that bad and OM gets all the wins they cheated to get and, even though they had to back off on big time cheating for a couple of seasons, they are right back at the same games full force again now.

[ImissCityBagel]

First, Starkville needs more than a new Academy Sports to attract young athletes. This recruiting cycle isn't SEC caliber and I was crucified in the FB groups for criticizing Leach's flippant attitude and apathy toward the level of recruiting competition in the SEC. Mullen was not the best, but invested time in evaluating young athletes (and many are now NFL stars.) Dan coached in the SEC. He knew the game and knew we weren't going to flip kids in the SEC without massive cheating.

[Todd4State]

What is the complaint if our recruits are initially under rated and yet they turn out to be 4/5 star talents? Is the overall program recruiting rating the issue? You want to be in the top 10?

I'm certainly happy if our players that play end up playing like 4-5 star talents. I do think it hurts perception when those players are underrated and I don't think it's fair to MSU, the players, or the coaches when that happens. I'm not sure I understand your question about the overall program rating being the issue- but I'll just say my issue is with 24/7 sports not rating our players properly. I don't have a goal as a fan to see our program in the top 10. My goal is top 20-25.

The biggest thing I want to see us be better at as a program is balance at positions and I'm really happy that this class has achieved that for the most part IMO outside of DB. And the coaches are at least trying to fill those spots and I can at least respect that better than just not recruiting anyone and leaving a hole in the class.

[thf24]

No, our approach to compliance is here Mr. NCAA, these are all the violations we've committed, no need in you even having to investigate to find out. And we can also provide you this really nice hammer to hit us over the head with. Approach of most of the SEC (and definitely OM) is deny, deny, deny. If Mr. NCAA wants to find something on them then they have to investigate and prove it. And then even when they do investigate and find more Level 1 violations on them than any case in history (like the OM case), the punishment is not that bad and OM gets all the wins they cheated to get and, even though they had to back off on big time cheating for a couple of seasons, they are right back at the same games full force again now.

Never said anything to the contrary. I'm just saying it's a little silly to assume Bracky himself is responsible for devising and implementing that strategy, instead of just executing his office according to the will of the higher ups like every other subordinate in the program does.

[Offshore Dawg]

I agree. Thing is we don't even have to fire Bracky. Just re-assign him to do the other sports and hire lawyers to handle football.

I can't ever see us getting a top five class without cheating at a ridiculous level honestly no matter what.

Dawgs can't get off the bottom of the SEC,

[Dawgsfanalongtime77]

The pirate stayed the course and it seems to have paid off. Lots of things to be excited about in the future.

[Dogbone]

The pirate stayed the course and it seems to have paid off. Lots of things to be excited about in the future.

Hail State!!!!

[Jarius]

If they came out and said, No more rules. Just buy who you want. Where would that leave MSU. I will tell you where I believe it would leave us. We would close down the program or you would have schools that buy and you would have the church league and we would be a part of the church league because we could not compete with the buyers.

Well the ncaa has already come out and said we’re going to be able to pay players within the next 12-24 months, so I guess we better start up the church league.