Leach could increase our running plays by 10%...

[HoopsDawg]

and we would still lead the country in passing play percentage by 4%.

We have faced the same defense 7 weeks in a row. We are dead last in the country in rushing yards per game. Dead freaking last against a 3 man front.

Are there people on this board that don't think Leach needs to adjust his scheme? Just trying to find some common ground here.

[ShotgunDawg]

At Washington State in 2018 the Minshew year, they had 5 100+ yard running games.

I'm not exactly sure why we aren't running it more & maybe more importantly, why we aren't having more success running it, but I think running it more is the goal

[DownwardDawg]

I think it's obvious to every state fan that we need to run the ball more. I just don't know if Leach will do it or not. I'm afraid that 3 years from now we'll be hiring another spread/run coach and we'll get to start all over again building what Mullen built. That's my fear.

[ShotgunDawg]

In 2018, Wazzou ran the ball 29% of the time while we currently run it 22% of the time.

Again, I'd have to think the 2018 Wazzou ratio is what we're shooting for, but I haven't a clue as to the variables that are currently preventing it

[ShotgunDawg]

I think it's obvious to every state fan that we need to run the ball more. I just don't know if Leach will do it or not. I'm afraid that 3 years from now we'll be hiring another spread/run coach and we'll get to start all over again building what Mullen built. That's my fear.

He's run the ball more in the past & he'll run it more here. I'm just not sure what variables are involved that are causing this.

[msstate7]

We avg 1.49 yds/carry. 1.49 haha

[ShotgunDawg]

We avg 1.49 yds/carry. 1.49 haha

Yeah clearly our effectiveness in running the ball isn't good.

Hopefully that is something we figure out in the Spring

[boot]

We aren?t rushing because we?re stuffed nearly every run or gain a measly 2 or 3 yards.. it?s not enough to make teams adjust to us like everybody is thinking they will.

[HoopsDawg]

He's run the ball more in the past & he'll run it more here. I'm just not sure what variables are involved that are causing this.

He's never seen the 3-8 exclusively every single game like he is this year. And he hasn't countered.

[msstate7]

We aren?t rushing because we?re stuffed nearly every run or gain a measly 2 or 3 yards.. it?s not enough to make teams adjust to us like everybody is thinking they will.

Well we need to figure out how bc the defense is giving us the run

[HoopsDawg]

Yeah clearly our effectiveness in running the ball isn't good.

Hopefully that is something we figure out in the Spring

Art Briles and Lincoln Riley have given Leach the formula. He just refuses to use it.

[parabrave]

Well we need to figure out how bc the defense is giving us the run

Except it's hard to run block when your splits are 5 yards and the run route takes you right by the DT not inside.

[boot]

Our line doesn?t get downfield when we run so there?s usually 3 or 4 LBs crashing down on our RB or their 3 man front blows up our line for a loss or no gain.

Hopefully this can be fixed in the spring.

[HoopsDawg]

Well we need to figure out how bc the defense is giving us the run

It's probably why I'm more pissed at Leach than I ever was with Moorhead. Moorehead should have never been hired to run an SEC program. There was nothing Moorhead could do.

Leach could be great, but for some reason, he won't adapt. Great coaches adapt.

[HoopsDawg]

Except it's hard to run block when your splits are 5 yards and the run route takes you right by the DT not inside.

It's been said traditional splits have not hurt the air raid passing game while helping the run game. So why won't Leach adjust? Hubris, stubbornness, i would like to know. I wish one of our beat reporters was skilled enough to get an answer.

[hp22]

This is my biggest concern with Leach.

The pass/run ratio needs a small adjustment imo.

[Heston]

We'll see what Leach does going forward. It cannot be overstated how bad our O-Line sucked this year - pass blocking and run blocking.

[ShotgunDawg]

He's never seen the 3-8 exclusively every single game like he is this year. And he hasn't countered.

Are you sure about that?

[Coach34]

He's never seen the 3-8 exclusively every single game like he is this year. And he hasn't countered.

That's all he is every going to see for the most part in this conference. You dont change what works.

And I hear people saying it's going to be better next year and all that. The windows to throw are going to be just as small next year as they were this year. DC's get the offseason to study ways of making the 3-8 even tougher. We had 479 yards yesterday of offense. That helped the OM D bring DOWN their average per game to 528.5 yards given up. We got 50 less yards than their average per game against a prevent D

[RezDog7]

He's never seen the 3-8 exclusively every single game like he is this year. And he hasn't countered.

You do realize a 3-8 doesn't mean that the defense flies out into the secondary at the snap of the ball right.

[Todd4State]

and we would still lead the country in passing play percentage by 4%.

We have faced the same defense 7 weeks in a row. We are dead last in the country in rushing yards per game. Dead freaking last against a 3 man front.

Are there people on this board that don't think Leach needs to adjust his scheme? Just trying to find some common ground here.

Exactly. And you want to run it more.

Here's a hint- it's still not going to work because we're still not going to be able to run the ball. It doesn't matter what kind of misdirection/counter/etc. play you want to run. If you can't block you can't block.

And no- Leach doesn't need to adjust his scheme. He needs to develop our players which he is doing now and has done everywhere else. And he needs to bring in talent to add to our core group which is playing very well for freshmen.

[Todd4State]

At Washington State in 2018 the Minshew year, they had 5 100+ yard running games.

I'm not exactly sure why we aren't running it more & maybe more importantly, why we aren't having more success running it, but I think running it more is the goal

Our offensive line and running backs need to develop. Our center is struggling snapping the ball. We get beat by good pass rushers despite teams only rushing three. They're getting better but like most of the rest of the team they're young. Cross is our best guy and he's a RS freshman. Smith, Dollar Bill, and Kam Jones are RS sophomores. Parker has been IMO probably our most consistent guy and he is a senior.

And then we're playing two freshmen RB's who I think are solid but they're not Leonard Fournette either. They aren't guys that are going to break too many long runs. At least not yet- if they ever will be.

I think as we develop we'll see the YPC get up to around 4 YPC.

[chef dixon]

I think part of it is our RBs aren't really that good this year.

[Todd4State]

You do realize a 3-8 doesn't mean that the defense flies out into the secondary at the snap of the ball right.

No he doesn't.

[bulldawg28]

I think part of it is our RBs aren't really that good this year.

Yep, I've wondered why Witherspoon doesn't get more playing time. #23 runs like a blind fullback.

[HoopsDawg]

That's all he is every going to see for the most part in this conference. You dont change what works.

And I hear people saying it's going to be better next year and all that. The windows to throw are going to be just as small next year as they were this year. DC's get the offseason to study ways of making the 3-8 even tougher. We had 479 yards yesterday of offense. That helped the OM D bring DOWN their average per game to 528.5 yards given up. We got 50 less yards than their average per game against a prevent D

True. And teams are already making small tweaks to the 3-8. OM played our RB man to man to take away the checkdown. A&M made a couple of tweaks as far as mixing up their 3 man rushes. Vandy switched some things up during the game. UGA was probably the most uncomfortable with the 3-8 dropping their LB's 10 yards deep at the snap. Once they finally adjusted and started jumping the underneath stuff, they shut us down the last 4 possessions.

Yep, 479 yards- 41 of those yards on the desperation hail mary to Spivey.

[HoopsDawg]

Exactly. And you want to run it more.

Here's a hint- it's still not going to work because we're still not going to be able to run the ball. It doesn't matter what kind of misdirection/counter/etc. play you want to run. If you can't block you can't block.

And no- Leach doesn't need to adjust his scheme. He needs to develop our players which he is doing now and has done everywhere else. And he needs to bring in talent to add to our core group which is playing very well for freshmen.

Todd, let the grown ups talk. Sit this one out.

[ShotgunDawg]

True. And teams are already making small tweaks to the 3-8. OM played our RB man to man to take away the checkdown. A&M made a couple of tweaks as far as mixing up their 3 man rushes. Vandy switched some things up during the game. UGA was probably the most uncomfortable with the 3-8 dropping their LB's 10 yards deep at the staff. Once they finally adjusted, they shut us down the last 4 possessions.

Yep, 479 yards- 41 of those yards on the desperation hail mary to Spivey.

Ole Miss had 2 weeks to get prepare as well.

Seems as if we did a bad job early yesterday of diagnosing what OM was doing. Once we did, we moved the ball easily, but those 3 missed possessions early likely cost us the game.

With all teams running a 3-8 vs us, there is only so much they can do. Soon Rogers & the WRs will have seen everything that's possible in that defense & will diagnose it quicker

[Todd4State]

Todd, let the grown ups talk. Sit this one out.

Merry Christmas! Maybe you'll post better next year and say less stupid shit.

https://www.amazon.com/Football-Dummies-Howie-Long/dp/1119553008/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&hvadid=78340341795223&hvbmt=bb&hvdev=c&hvqmt=b&keywords=football+dummies&qid=1606681346&s=books&sr=1-1&tag=mh0b-20

[Todd4State]

Yep, I've wondered why Witherspoon doesn't get more playing time. #23 runs like a blind fullback.

I want to see more Witherspoon too.

[Cooterpoot]

and we would still lead the country in passing play percentage by 4%.

We have faced the same defense 7 weeks in a row. We are dead last in the country in rushing yards per game. Dead freaking last against a 3 man front.

Are there people on this board that don't think Leach needs to adjust his scheme? Just trying to find some common ground here.

I think he needs some OL, needs one to get healthy and one to kill it in the training room. Same with the RBs. Leach isn't running the full playbook yet. In the past, he's run it more. Got to find the players and have a full offseason. And yes, some tweaks would help too.

[HoopsDawg]

And yes, some tweaks would help too.

That's all I want. That's all any sane person should want.

[confucius say]

Well we need to figure out how bc the defense is giving us the run

Mississippi committed 7 to the run most of the day.
We are seeing a lot of 3 man fronts but there are 4 more guys within 6 yards of the line flying down hill when they read run. And they all are in zone with their eyes in the backfield. Nobody's back turns from the line in man. What should really be there is play action.

I do expect our OL to get better at combos and working to the next level though. And more mature backs. We will run it better in time.

[confucius say]

Ole Miss had 2 weeks to get prepare as well.

Seems as if we did a bad job early yesterday of diagnosing what OM was doing. Once we did, we moved the ball easily, but those 3 missed possessions early likely cost us the game.

With all teams running a 3-8 vs us, there is only so much they can do. Soon Rogers & the WRs will have seen everything that's possible in that defense & will diagnose it quicker

The 3 empty possessions in the third quarter too.
Of course, Cole rolling the ball back to will cost us a chance to keep 2 drives going. Will was carving them up and both of those snaps ended drives. Those 2 snaps and the fumble at the goal line were the difference. Didn't play clean enough.

[Irondawg]

To echo a lot of this is like to see us run more as well but more but when is the last time you saw a 10 yard run from a back - or heck even multiple 5 yard runs.

Whether it’s the blocking or the back or a combination right now we are way worse running then all than throwing the ball.

Really we need the qb to run more or some play action to manipulate the LB if the rb aren’t going to get it done. Or maybe the trick is to run deeper routes because seems teams have tons of defenders within 5 yards of the LOS which doesn’t leave a lot of running lanes

[Bass Chaser]

I thought our run/pass percentage would be similar to 2008 TT going into the year.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/texas-tech/2008.html

I was hoping we would see some toss sweeps yesterday too.

[Todd4State]

I thought our run/pass percentage would be similar to 2008 TT going into the year.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/texas-tech/2008.html

I was hoping we would see some toss sweeps yesterday too.

I think that average is more in line with what we can expect from Leach while he is here as we progress as a team.

[dawgday166]

I thought our run/pass percentage would be similar to 2008 TT going into the year.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/texas-tech/2008.html

I was hoping we would see some toss sweeps yesterday too.

Took Leach a while to build that. Didn't happen the 1st pandemic shortened year he walked into a TT locker room.

Took him 9 years at TT to get there which was close to Big 12 championship with Texas being top-tier CFB team then.

Talent pool around Southeast is greater for Leach at MSU. I believe he can achieve something similar quicker at MSU. He will make some tweaks as time goes on IMO. Gotta give him some time tho.

[SailingDawg]

Do we win that game with Kylin Hill?

[messageboardsuperhero]

Wouldn?t mind seeing a counter trap play with pulling guards and add some misdirection in the run game. The issue is that right now we basically just have two run plays- inside zone and RB draw. When the defense knows that the only threat of the run comes from those two plays, they can crash down and not really have to play gap responsibility. People can scream run the ball more all day, but even when we run it now, we are extremely inefficient at it.

Simply handing it off 6-8 times more per game will not solve the issue. We are what we are in that department for now. What Cooter said is pretty much dead on. We need to find more of the right kind of OL, get in an offseason with the ones we do have, and get more experienced/stronger at RB. I do think Leach?s system is sound and works. It is by no means broken, but a tweak here and there in the run game would make it better.

[R2Dawg]

I think it's obvious to every state fan that we need to run the ball more. I just don't know if Leach will do it or not. I'm afraid that 3 years from now we'll be hiring another spread/run coach and we'll get to start all over again building what Mullen built. That's my fear.

Agree, my biggest fear too. We hired a guy that will force us into two major rebuilds to get back. First one is Leach running an odd system, next one will be to get us out of this system. That is a lot of bad years of football.

We'll be the joke of SEC football jokes again. Something JWS and Mullen both changed in their time.

[R2Dawg]

It's probably why I'm more pissed at Leach than I ever was with Moorhead. Moorehead should have never been hired to run an SEC program. There was nothing Moorhead could do.

Leach could be great, but for some reason, he won't adapt. Great coaches adapt.

Same here hoops. We look as dumb or dumber than LSU staying in man the whole game. We've been stupid every game not adapting any. No business or anything in life can succeed long term without adapting.

[Todd4State]

Agree, my biggest fear too. We hired a guy that will force us into two major rebuilds to get back. First one is Leach running an odd system, next one will be to get us out of this system. That is a lot of bad years of football.

We'll be the joke of SEC football jokes again. Something JWS and Mullen both changed in their time.

His system attracts good QB's and WR's. That's a good starting point for any head coach. Imagine what may have happened if Moorhead had guys like Rogers and Walley/Heath when he came on board.

[HancockCountyDog]

Are you sure about that?

Yes - we are sure about that; I can go game by game on youtube, snap by snap. He has never seen the 3-8 used almost exclusively the entire game except when he played Washington.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I'll be completely honest, we called some very solid run plays on Saturday and our backs just never hit the hole. I counted two or three times where Marks could've taken the 5-7 yards they were giving and he tried to bounce it. We should've had 60-70 yards rushing on Saturday

[HoopsDawg]

I'll be completely honest, we called some very solid run plays on Saturday and our backs just never hit the hole. I counted two or three times where Marks could've taken the 5-7 yards they were giving and he tried to bounce it. We should've had 60-70 yards rushing on Saturday

One things for sure, with our wide splits and scheme, we need a back that's going to take the ball and go immediately downhill.

[confucius say]

I'll be completely honest, we called some very solid run plays on Saturday and our backs just never hit the hole. I counted two or three times where Marks could've taken the 5-7 yards they were giving and he tried to bounce it. We should've had 60-70 yards rushing on Saturday

We ran for 57.
Lost 18 on coles snaps though

[StarkVegasSteve]

We ran for 57.
Lost 18 on coles snaps though

Ahh ok so we could've easily ran for 100+ had our backs hit the hole or Will taken off a couple of times he was wide open. I know there was one 1st down that he tried to force one and probably could've ran for 15-20 yards. He tucked it and ran two plays later and got 9 or 10 yards.

[Johnson85]

Yes - we are sure about that; I can go game by game on youtube, snap by snap. He has never seen the 3-8 used almost exclusively the entire game except when he played Washington.

I suspect not every DC in the Pac 12 for the past 6 years was a moron and that at least a few of them tried to copy Petersen's scheme but found it didn't work as well without the massive talent advantage.

I'm concerned about Leach's offense but the concern isn't that it will continue to look like it does this year. Leach isn't just going to retire a loser because he doesn't want to adjust. If we continue to suck after he has time and reps with the team, I expect that he will adjust.

It's much more likely that we find out that a huge part of the problem this year was not having enough time to get his system installed and the reps needed, and also that the speed and athleticism in the SEC means the required precision is just too high to run the traditional air raid with consistent success. And as a result, he'll taste just enough success that he doesn't have to adjust, but repeats something similar to Mullen's 2009-2013 run.

[trojandawg]

I suspect not every DC in the Pac 12 for the past 6 years was a moron and that at least a few of them tried to copy Petersen's scheme but found it didn't work as well without the massive talent advantage.

I'm concerned about Leach's offense but the concern isn't that it will continue to look like it does this year. Leach isn't just going to retire a loser because he doesn't want to adjust. If we continue to suck after he has time and reps with the team, I expect that he will adjust.

It's much more likely that we find out that a huge part of the problem this year was not having enough time to get his system installed and the reps needed, and also that the speed and athleticism in the SEC means the required precision is just too high to run the traditional air raid with consistent success. And as a result, he'll taste just enough success that he doesn't have to adjust, but repeats something similar to Mullen's 2009-2013 run.

I mean the pac 12 did hire Peter Sirmon after his debacle here