Oh How ED has changed......

[basedog]

Seems ED is happy about losing now days, I remember how winning a close game against say a lesser opponent and some of you same posters would criticize the "Coach". Now all of a sudden Leach is a COY candidate for some of you guys. I'm pulling for Msu and Leach, always have but I don't like losing and I have seen way more losing season than winning over my years.
Way too much phrase for playing hard while still losing. Aren't you suppose to play hard regardless? This is nothing new, I heard this back in the "old" days, you know like "can't wait till next year or we are Msu". LOL oh how ED has changed to a wanna be Genespage****

Hailstate

[msstate7]

Could you imagine if someone here tried to sell a moral victory losing to OM when Mullen or Moorhead were the coach? That poster would be torn apart. Now we have posters that will be walking into the office with their chest poked out, "you guys see us only lose by 7 to ole miss? We some BAs"

[ShotgunDawg]

Good post and good point.

I believe perspective and an understanding of the reality of our current situation is important when attempting to form a thoughtful opinion.

To each their own though. I certainly hate losing.

[basedog]

Could you imagine if someone here tried to sell a moral victory losing to OM when Mullen or Moorhead were the coach? That poster would be torn apart. Now we have posters that will be walking into the office with their chest poked out, "you guys see us only lose by 7 to ole miss? We some BAs"

Big +1

It amazes me the blame Mullen is still getting for his so called "recruiting bad guys" I don't recall Mullen having so many issues with players in the locker room. Now Morehead was just over his head as a HC.

On the positive Will Rogers didn't play like a Freshman, if he had a running attack he would be much better. Btw I think it's Gun who questions his arm strength, it's not that bad, his accuracy is good, I watch him in HS and saw this. He has good touch and he will get better. Not sure arm strength is all that important in Leach's short game passing, it's more about pin point passing.

[KOdawg1]

The longer time passes from last night, the more the shine of "great effort" wears off. The fact is, we blew the game against an inferior team. They had a historically bad defense, and we could only muster 24 points against it. Everyone is pumped about Rogers throwing for 440 yards. Yeah, that's great, but when that's your ONLY source of yards, it really doesn't matter. I still hate this offense. Everything has to go perfectly for it to be successful. If you have one negative play, the drive is pretty much over. If you have to get a quick score, you can't, because even though it's a passing offense, there are no explosive, big chunk plays to be had unless the defense goes to man, and why would they do that?

We've had two straight weeks of improvement, but even with the improvement, I don't think the offense is going to win against equal or better competition. You pretty much have to throw for 550 yards because we're not going to get any yards on the ground.

[basedog]

Good post and good point.

I believe perspective and an understanding of the reality of our current situation is important when attempting to form a thoughtful opinion.

To each their own though. I certainly hate losing.

Thanks Gun, not sure if it's a good post cause I hate losing regardless. Seen way to much and many young folks blame us old timers which is retarded. This team on passing and Will Rogers kinda reminds me of Dave Marler passing except he threw the ball more down the field but we still lost a lot. Same with Tony Shell.

I really like our DC, dude mixes it up with his personnel and isn't set with a certain so called style. He is young and to me his future is bright, we will be lucky to keep him over the long haul unless he loves Leach and StarkVegas.

[Dawgface]

Good post and good point.

I believe perspective and an understanding of the reality of our current situation is important when attempting to form a thoughtful opinion.

To each their own though. I certainly hate losing.

Exactly. Never want to lose the Egg. But the one's(including me) putting a positive on the loss is looking at this long term. Two weeks in a row that the offense has shown a pulse. I know....one was against a shitty OM defense. But don't forget how we looked against a shitty Vandy defense. What was it....something like 205 total yards?

Crappy season no doubt. But with all the players we have lost and the failure at qb with KJ, I'm happy to see some improvements now.

[ShotgunDawg]

Big +1

It amazes me the blame Mullen is still getting for his so called "recruiting bad guys" I don't recall Mullen having so many issues with players in the locker room. Now Morehead was just over his head as a HC.

On the positive Will Rogers didn't play like a Freshman, if he had a running attack he would be much better. Btw I think it's Gun who questions his arm strength, it's not that bad, his accuracy is good, I watch him in HS and saw this. He has good touch and he will get better. Not sure arm strength is all that important in Leach's short game passing, it's more about pin point passing.

Rogers arm strength isn't bad. It's just one area that, if improved, could really benefit our vertical passing game. It's fair to average for the SEC

[basedog]

The longer time passes from last night, the more the shine of "great effort" wears off. The fact is, we blew the game against an inferior team. They had a historically bad defense, and we could only muster 24 points against it. Everyone is pumped about Rogers throwing for 440 yards. Yeah, that's great, but when that's your ONLY source of yards, it really doesn't matter. I still hate this offense. Everything has to go perfectly for it to be successful. If you have one negative play, the drive is pretty much over. If you have to get a quick score, you can't, because even though it's a passing offense, there are no explosive, big chunk plays to be had unless the defense goes to man, and why would they do that?

We've had two straight weeks of improvement, but even with the improvement, I don't think the offense is going to win against equal or better competition. You pretty much have to throw for 550 yards because we're not going to get any yards on the ground.

Now this is good points! Rogers was good but we have not many big plays although Heath and especially Walley have potential. But prevent defenses will keep the big play in check most of the time.
Gotta find a running game to make the defense adjust in the Sec. OM defense played well against us, now that is sad! Imagine if Kiffin would have kicked FG's instead of gambling to our strength on 4th downs, defense.

[ShotgunDawg]

The longer time passes from last night, the more the shine of "great effort" wears off. The fact is, we blew the game against an inferior team. They had a historically bad defense, and we could only muster 24 points against it. Everyone is pumped about Rogers throwing for 440 yards. Yeah, that's great, but when that's your ONLY source of yards, it really doesn't matter. I still hate this offense. Everything has to go perfectly for it to be successful. If you have one negative play, the drive is pretty much over. If you have to get a quick score, you can't, because even though it's a passing offense, there are no explosive, big chunk plays to be had unless the defense goes to man, and why would they do that?

We've had two straight weeks of improvement, but even with the improvement, I don't think the offense is going to win against equal or better competition. You pretty much have to throw for 550 yards because we're not going to get any yards on the ground.

Fair points.

If you look at Leach's time at Wazzou, they ran better than the way we're currently running it. I don't think we've got the run blocking portion of this offense down yet.

[basedog]

Rogers arm strength isn't bad. It's just one are that, if improved, could really benefit our vertical passing game. It's fair to average for the SEC

Hard to throw downfield when defenses are in a tight 3-8. Rogers will get stronger, he has a young lean body, he is smart and accurate and looks to the part as a good QB.

[Dawgfan77]

Same folks finding good news on this board are the same people who wanted to give SloMo and Croom more time. Loser mentality creates losers

[Hambone]

Yes, we lost and it sucked.

HOWEVER, what do you think the outcome would have been if you took 35 scholarship players away from Ole Miss last night? Included are these players Corral (Costello) Ealy (Hill) three of their starting 4 corners, one of their Olinemen two of their starting linebackers, oh and for good measure they had to play two or three walk on?

No, moral victories may not make a lot of you happy, but at least we played.

Florida State said F it and they had MORE PLAYERS than we did!

[msstate7]

Yes, we lost and it sucked.

HOWEVER, what do you think the outcome would have been if you took 35 scholarship players away from Ole Miss last night? Included are these players Corral (Costello) Ealy (Hill) three of their starting 4 corners, one of their Olinemen two of their starting linebackers, oh and for good measure they had to play two or three walk on?

No, moral victories may not make a lot of you happy, but at least we played.

Florida State said F it and they had MORE PLAYERS than we did!

Offense was pretty much full strength.

[Dawgface]

Same folks finding good news on this board are the same people who wanted to give SloMo and Croom more time. Loser mentality creates losers

Wrong on both.

[chef dixon]

Offense was pretty much full strength.

Except minus the original starting QB, all-sec RB and a couple of our wideouts. I'm not sure what y'all are expecting from a bunch of true freshman in a new system. Progress is all you can ask for.

[Dawgfan77]

Wrong on both.
Enjoy your moral victories

[ShotgunDawg]

Same folks finding good news on this board are the same people who wanted to give SloMo and Croom more time. Loser mentality creates losers

Not true. I called for Joe's firing after signing day 2019

The title was "JoMo has to go"

[ShotgunDawg]

Offense was pretty much full strength.

Unfair post. Offense lacks a good many weapons it started the year with.

We aren't where Leach had the offense at Wazzou but I'm more convinced now than ever than ever that he'll get there here and surpass it due to our recruiting

[ShotgunDawg]

Except minus the original starting QB, all-sec RB and a couple of our wideouts. I'm not sure what y'all are expecting from a bunch of true freshman in a new system. Progress is all you can ask for.

True

[BrunswickDawg]

Base, I think a lot of us wrote off the season from the start. Most of the predictions on here were for a losing season - which I don't recall happening before. LSU was fools gold, but with all the adversity this year those of us who tend to be optimists look for the good and signs of progress instead of beating dead horses. Doesn't make losing any easier, but like you have to do after a loss you put it behind you and start looking ahead.

[hp22]

Good post and good point.

I believe perspective and an understanding of the reality of our current situation is important when attempting to form a thoughtful opinion.

To each their own though. I certainly hate losing.

This. All day.

Next year is a different situation.

[basedog]

I read where we had only 47 scholarship players dressed out. Ok I can understand somewhat, but is all the fault with players leaving, dismissed and opting out? You got to lay some of the blame with Leach, he wants his own program so he doesn't like what he is seeing and those are gone. No way do I think all of even some of those guys are at fault. It's Leach who IS changing the so called "culture", but sometimes there needs to be some give and take to a certain degree. No way should some of you guys be blaming Mullen, he didn't have a probably with those players that he recruited and Leach has run off.
It's Leach's team and program now, let's hope he is correct and proves his style of Coaching will succeed at Msu.
In saying this, players have to step up and show leadership as well. No doubt the JoMo two year deal with what players he had was a huge disappointment. I also think JoMo's staff wasn't very good and I do think Leach has a better staff.
I'm just not sure about the let's tear everything down and start over, I would have rather seen more of adjustments to what players we Leach started out with. Don't get me wrong no doubt some needed "culling" but damn look at how many are missing now. 60 year old coaches don't seem to change unless you are Nick Saban.

[Cowbell]

Many feel better because we now have an offensive pulse. An offense with no pulse is what lowered the bar. This year - that's not on Moorhead or Mullen. The young players have gotten better for sure and that is the difference. But will they get enough better to make this offense electric? I think if you really understand this game, you have to realize that this off-season is Leachs most important offseason in his coaching history. Without changes to the way we attack defenses, this offense will always limit our players ability to win. The ship will sail as the pirate directs it. If you do not agree with this, don't bother arguing with me. Go back and really study our offense. Watch opposing teams linebackers and what they do each play....

[Cowbell]

I read where we had only 47 scholarship players dressed out. Ok I can understand somewhat, but is all the fault with players leaving, dismissed and opting out? You got to lay some of the blame with Leach, he wants his own program so he doesn't like what he is seeing and those are gone. No way do I think all of even some of those guys are at fault. It's Leach who IS changing the so called "culture", but sometimes there needs to be some give and take to a certain degree. No way should some of you guys be blaming Mullen, he didn't have a probably with those players that he recruited and Leach has run off.
It's Leach's team and program now, let's hope he is correct and proves his style of Coaching will succeed at Msu.
In saying this, players have to step up and show leadership as well. No doubt the JoMo two year deal with what players he had was a huge disappointment. I also think JoMo's staff wasn't very good and I do think Leach has a better staff.
I'm just not sure about the let's tear everything down and start over, I would have rather seen more of adjustments to what players we Leach started out with. Don't get me wrong no doubt some needed "culling" but damn look at how many are missing now. 60 year old coaches don't seem to change unless you are Nick Saban.
Agreed. So far leach is no better than Moorhead in my opinion. With only looking at what we have seen while they have been here. I do believe we play harder though, no doubt.

[MetEdDawg]

Many feel better because we now have an offensive pulse. An offense with no pulse is what lowered the bar. This year - that's not on Moorhead or Mullen. The young players have gotten better for sure and that is the difference. But will they get enough better to make this offense electric? I think if you really understand this game, you have to realize that this off-season is Leachs most important offseason in his coaching history. Without changes to the way we attack defenses, this offense will always limit our players ability to win. The ship will sail as the pirate directs it. If you do not agree with this, don't bother arguing with me. Go back and really study our offense. Watch opposing teams linebackers and what they do each play....

Will made Ole Miss make a change and I'm hopeful it's something Leach accounts for going forward. His ability to run when things broke down or no one was open made Ole Miss take a guy away from their drop 8 and spy him on a couple different occasions last night. And that opened things up, especially when Will had to scramble and look downfield.

I'll be happier next year if I see Leach:

1) Allow the QB to run more when things break down. Not designed runs. But scramble runs. You can tell he's taught the QB to look downfield literally as long as physically possible. Last night Will dropped it down and extended drives because the defense allowed it. Have to take advantage of that going forward.

2) More creativity and thought put behind the run game. It's obvious the run game has been much of an afterthought. In the Big 12 and PAC 12, you can run that offense and gash up the middle as a change of pace. Can't do that in the SEC. Guys are too athletic. We will need to scheme the run game much more going forward.

I would also like our pass/run splits to be more 70/30 or 75/25. I don't think we can be successful at 83/17 which is the stat was displayed prior to the Georgia game.

[Cooterpoot]

Year one of a total rebuild nobody asked for. You take the positives you can find. Once Leach gets his guys here, then we'll see.

[FISHDAWG]

What I saw was freshmen everywhere... 2nd and 3rd deep . What I saw was improvement... What I saw was young guys playing their hearts out ... even though we got burned deep or a receiver lost the ball at the goal line I still saw a team that didn't quit . After the way this season started and the way it's progressing now then yeah - I'll stick my chest out and and accept what we have and not really give a damn what someone else thinks ... it took mos of the season but at least I'm feeling more encouraged than I have in a couple of years

[chef dixon]

We had a roster allergic to the forward pass. This was always a complete rebuild. No one wanted to look as bad as we did for 5 weeks but improvement with freshmen is encouraging. No one should have been shocked with 2-6 in the league. No cupcakes to practice on this year. And I hate to break it to y'all, but ole miss has had a chance to win every game this year except v Florida. As bad as their D is, they are top half of the league this year. Will Leach work here? It's way too early to make that call.

[bluelightstar]

Could you imagine if someone here tried to sell a moral victory losing to OM when Mullen or Moorhead were the coach? That poster would be torn apart. Now we have posters that will be walking into the office with their chest poked out, "you guys see us only lose by 7 to ole miss? We some BAs"

This. Well, Leach is the first coach since Croom on our side and Ogre on theirs to lose his first Egg Bowl. But at least our offense showed signs of life against a bottom 5 defense in the country.

I have not made my mind up about what will happen with this offense. I am fairly confident that it won?t work without some changes (more formations, morion, etc), but I have to believe Leach is smart enough to make some. I know Leach?s philosophy is execute a few plays perfectly but I don?t think it will work in the SEC to have an offense where the other team knows exactly what?s coming.

[Fader21]

Not true. I called for Joe's firing after signing day 2019

The title was "JoMo has to go"

Wasnt this when you were starting 75 threads a day? One of your threads was "Joe can fix this" too

I hate losing to Mississippi and still pissed. I think why some fans find it a little bit more tolerable is because it's not the last game of the season and there is still more MSU football if this was the last game with the same record there would be 15 threads calling for Leach's firing.

[basedog]

"Will Leach work here? It's way too early to make that call"

Yes to this But he needs to find a running game. I will say I was surprised the game was close, still only 24 points against maybe the worse defense in the Sec.

Btw, why did we change punters?

[ShotgunDawg]

What I saw was freshmen everywhere... 2nd and 3rd deep . What I saw was improvement... What I saw was young guys playing their hearts out ... even though we got burned deep or a receiver lost the ball at the goal line I still saw a team that didn't quit . After the way this season started and the way it's progressing now then yeah - I'll stick my chest out and and accept what we have and not really give a damn what someone else thinks ... it took mos of the season but at least I'm feeling more encouraged than I have in a couple of years

Our offense ain’t great yet but it’s already light years better than what we had with Joe

[ShotgunDawg]

"Will Leach work here? It's way too early to make that call"

Yes to this But he needs to find a running game. I will say I was surprised the game was close, still only 24 points against maybe the worse defense in the Sec.

Btw, why did we change punters?

We could?ve easily had 40 points yesterday.

Tucker Day is hurt I believe

[basedog]

We could?ve easily had 40 points yesterday.

Tucker Day is hurt I believe

Not sure about 40 points but if so OM could have had more than 40, Kiffin's gambles could have cost him the game. Second guessing is fun thou. Imagine IF we had OM running game or IF OM had our defense?

[msstate7]

Our offense ain’t great yet but it’s already light years better than what we had with Joe

Using conference games only comparing last year and this year, we're down in total off, scoring off, and yds/play

[bluelightstar]

Using conference games only comparing last year and this year, we're down in total off, scoring off, and yds/play

Well the reply to that is going to be “we are playing freshmen”

[Dawgfan77]

Year one of a total rebuild nobody asked for. You take the positives you can find. Once Leach gets his guys here, then we'll see.
I'm sick of hearing his guys... Did Mullen have "his guys" in 09? What about in 10? Does Lane or Pittman have his guys?
What about Drink at Mizz?? Leach getting 5MM a year to win games. Good coaches take what they have and try and win. Leach would rather be in Key West

[ShotgunDawg]

Not sure about 40 points but if so OM could have had more than 40, Kiffin's gambles could have cost him the game. Second guessing is fun thou. Imagine IF we had OM running game or IF OM had our defense?

Williams fumble would've been 28 points, a FG on the final drive would've been 31, Leach going for a TD instead of FG on 2nd to final drive would've been 38, & then a FG on either of Cole Smith's bad snap drives in which we were driving.

True Ole Miss could've had 40, but our defense is short handed right now that I don't really care about that

[defiantdog]

Y'all bicker more than me and my ex wife. Point is..... We got better since getting embarrassed vs Kentucky. Our freshmen have grown up. And the team isn't playing like a bunch of individuals. We all predicted 4 wins..... Well..... We were 2 off. This team is gonna get better.

Moral victory though? No..... They played hard and kept it closer than I expected but a loss is a loss. But some of you want to kick Leach off faster than he got here.

[ShotgunDawg]

Y'all bicker more than me and my ex wife. Point is..... We got better since getting embarrassed vs Kentucky. Our freshmen have grown up. And the team isn't playing like a bunch of individuals. We all predicted 4 wins..... Well..... We were 2 off. This team is gonna get better.

Moral victory though? No..... They played hard and kept it closer than I expected but a loss is a loss. But some of you want to kick Leach off faster than he got here.

Defient, we have a very vocal, small minority that is negative right now.

The overwhelming majority of the fan base sees the progress.

We're better right now on offense than we have been 2017 & basically doing it with freshmen

[Cowbell]

Defient, we have a very vocal, small minority that is negative right now.

The overwhelming majority of the fan base sees the progress.

We're better right now on offense than we have been 2017 & basically doing it with freshmen

No we are not. Not today

[Liverpooldawg]

The longer time passes from last night, the more the shine of "great effort" wears off. The fact is, we blew the game against an inferior team. They had a historically bad defense, and we could only muster 24 points against it. Everyone is pumped about Rogers throwing for 440 yards. Yeah, that's great, but when that's your ONLY source of yards, it really doesn't matter. I still hate this offense. Everything has to go perfectly for it to be successful. If you have one negative play, the drive is pretty much over. If you have to get a quick score, you can't, because even though it's a passing offense, there are no explosive, big chunk plays to be had unless the defense goes to man, and why would they do that?

We've had two straight weeks of improvement, but even with the improvement, I don't think the offense is going to win against equal or better competition. You pretty much have to throw for 550 yards because we're not going to get any yards on the ground.
I don't know where you get that "inferior team" stuff. If you have been paying attention they have not been inferior to us, not even close. It took Vandy having five turnovers for us to beat them. Once people figured out the proper defense for us we have been really bad on offense. The last two games finally showed some signs of life. That with 49 and 43 scholarship players available. I don't like the air raid either. I thought we made absolutely the wrong hire for us and said so at the time. The fact is that we are stuck with him for at least two, probably three, more years. Since that is the case I want it to work. The last two games it has looked better. If you are expecting Leach to have a running game in order for you to be happy, you aren't going to be happy. This is what he does and he isn't going to change.

[Cooterpoot]

Not sure about 40 points but if so OM could have had more than 40, Kiffin's gambles could have cost him the game. Second guessing is fun thou. Imagine IF we had OM running game or IF OM had our defense?

I laugh at this shit. They could've scored 40 if he hadn't tried to score??? He was literally trying to score 40 and couldnt. Shit people.

[ShotgunDawg]

No we are not. Not today

Yes we are. We're a clearly better on offense currently, scheme and execution wise, than we have been since 2017. Our players aren't quite as mature yet as those guys, but the execution, passing game, & scheme are all light years better.

[DLGDawg]

Many feel better because we now have an offensive pulse. An offense with no pulse is what lowered the bar. This year - that's not on Moorhead or Mullen. The young players have gotten better for sure and that is the difference. But will they get enough better to make this offense electric? I think if you really understand this game, you have to realize that this off-season is Leachs most important offseason in his coaching history. Without changes to the way we attack defenses, this offense will always limit our players ability to win. The ship will sail as the pirate directs it. If you do not agree with this, don't bother arguing with me. Go back and really study our offense. Watch opposing teams linebackers and what they do each play....

I agree about this offseason being one of Leach's biggest ever.
I believe that Leach is extremely intelligent.
Now, here's the kicker. Will he apply that intelligence into incorporating a run game with his scheme??

Ohhhh how I hope he does. IMO if Leach would truly work hard at coming up with an AIR-RUN RAID, he could create something special.

[basedog]

I laugh at this shit. They could've scored 40 if he hadn't tried to score??? He was literally trying to score 40 and couldnt. Shit people.

Kicking a couple of field goals change the game Cooter. Coming away from no points is a "downer" especially in a tight game. So laugh all you want cause Msu has a hard time scoring if you are paying close attention. Just saying and really not trying to bash you or others. I think Gun made the comment about Msu scoring 40.

My point was a knock at Kiffin for being a dumb ass and O was glad he played into our strength, defense.

[NCDawg]

Bottom line, we need better offensive linemen to enhance our running game and we definitely need better DB's. I knew when I saw Corral launch those long passes that they were going to be TD's. We also need to get stronger. Looked to me like Ealy carried our whole defense into the end zone.

[Maroonthirteen]

ED is mostly shotgun posting the talking points that he is fed from someone or what he is parroting from the Out of Bounds show. If someone post an alternate opinion, he is quick to chime in with the excuse du-jour. Then the thread evolves into arguments over the validity of the excuses.

It's obvious though that the MSU AD wants to get the message out of.... "patience." "Work In progress". Bo Bounds has said it for weeks now on every show in some form or fashion.

We seem to be in phase 2 of keep the fans on the bandwagon.

"Oh look at that, we almost won. Getting better."

[Cowbell]

Yes we are. We're a clearly better on offense currently, scheme and execution wise, than we have been since 2017. Our players aren't quite as mature yet as those guys, but the execution, passing game, & scheme are all light years better.

Based on what

[Cowbell]

I agree about this offseason being one of Leach's biggest ever.
I believe that Leach is extremely intelligent.
Now, here's the kicker. Will he apply that intelligence into incorporating a run game with his scheme??

Ohhhh how I hope he does. IMO if Leach would truly work hard at coming up with an AIR-RUN RAID, he could create something special.
This is what I believe. But I have my doubts he will

[ShotgunDawg]

Based on what

my eyes

The main production in our offense isn't the QB scrambling

[tcdog70]

The longer time passes from last night, the more the shine of "great effort" wears off. The fact is, we blew the game against an inferior team. They had a historically bad defense, and we could only muster 24 points against it. Everyone is pumped about Rogers throwing for 440 yards. Yeah, that's great, but when that's your ONLY source of yards, it really doesn't matter. I still hate this offense. Everything has to go perfectly for it to be successful. If you have one negative play, the drive is pretty much over. If you have to get a quick score, you can't, because even though it's a passing offense, there are no explosive, big chunk plays to be had unless the defense goes to man, and why would they do that?

We've had two straight weeks of improvement, but even with the improvement, I don't think the offense is going to win against equal or better competition. You pretty much have to throw for 550 yards because we're not going to get any yards on the ground.

Let?s look at why we didn?t score more.. 1st thing the fumble at the goal line. That?s 7 more points. In the 2nd half. We had 2 drives stopped on third down - not by the Rebs but our Center-two drives, that was a killer. Then on another drive we had the 15 yard chop block penalty. Then when we really needed Heath to make a play ?Will hits him in both hands and he fails to make the crucial catch. That was huge, I instead of the Hail Mary we would have tried a FG to tie. Ole Miss really didn?t stop Us we stopped Us.

[parabrave]

Now this is good points! Rogers was good but we have not many big plays although Heath and especially Walley have potential. But prevent defenses will keep the big play in check most of the time.
Gotta find a running game to make the defense adjust in the Sec. OM defense played well against us, now that is sad! Imagine if Kiffin would have kicked FG's instead of gambling to our strength on 4th downs, defense.

Walley and Heath saved Rogers last night. Most of his passes to Heath were 4 yards over his head. Now that could've been designed that way due to Maliks height but it got him hurt at the end of the game. Walley is just a stud. He has been that way since 10th grade. A good thing about Rogers that no one has mentioned is his escapability. He started having success when he rolled out. This brought the Lbs up and provided time for the receivers to get open. Big difference from Costello. But in the future if Leach doesn't incorporate a strong running attack this offense will not work. Everyone talks about how great it was back in the 90's well I don't remember Kentucky having many wining seasons then. And for everyone saying Mullen didn't leave any Recruits well he left us stocked, but it was for his type of offense. Moorhead was just a very bad head coach.

[HoopsDawg]

ED is mostly shotgun posting the talking points that he is fed from someone or what he is parroting from the Out of Bounds show. If someone post an alternate opinion, he is quick to chime in with the excuse du-jour. Then the thread evolves into arguments over the validity of the excuses.

It's obvious though that the MSU AD wants to get the message out of.... "patience." "Work In progress". Bo Bounds has said it for weeks now on every show in some form or fashion.

We seem to be in phase 2 of keep the fans on the bandwagon.

"Oh look at that, we almost won. Getting better."

I think you have solved it. Shotgun is a bot.

[NCDawg]

Let?s look at why we didn?t score more.. 1st thing the fumble at the goal line. That?s 7 more points. In the 2nd half. We had 2 drives stopped on third down - not by the Rebs but our Center-two drives, that was a killer. Then on another drive we had the 15 yard chop block penalty. Then when we really needed Heath to make a play ?Will hits him in both hands and he fails to make the crucial catch. That was huge, I instead of the Hail Mary we would have tried a FG to tie. Ole Miss really didn?t stop Us we stopped Us.

It was a tough catch, but I agree Heath should have caught it, and I'm sure Heath will agree that he should have caught it. He had both hands on the ball.

[basedog]

Walley and Heath saved Rogers last night. Most of his passes to Heath were 4 yards over his head. Now that could've been designed that way due to Maliks height but it got him hurt at the end of the game. Walley is just a stud. He has been that way since 10th grade. A good thing about Rogers that no one has mentioned is his escapability. He started having success when he rolled out. This brought the Lbs up and provided time for the receivers to get open. Big difference from Costello. But in the future if Leach doesn't incorporate a strong running attack this offense will not work. Everyone talks about how great it was back in the 90's well I don't remember Kentucky having many wining seasons then. And for everyone saying Mullen didn't leave any Recruits well he left us stocked, but it was for his type of offense. Moorhead was just a very bad head coach.

Yes to Heath and especially Walley, also Spivey looked good. Rogers in HS did roll out and pass some, 45-61 was good but there were some terrific catches.

[Todd4State]

Big +1

It amazes me the blame Mullen is still getting for his so called "recruiting bad guys" I don't recall Mullen having so many issues with players in the locker room. Now Morehead was just over his head as a HC.

On the positive Will Rogers didn't play like a Freshman, if he had a running attack he would be much better. Btw I think it's Gun who questions his arm strength, it's not that bad, his accuracy is good, I watch him in HS and saw this. He has good touch and he will get better. Not sure arm strength is all that important in Leach's short game passing, it's more about pin point passing.

Listen to Nick Fitzgerald's interview on a MSU podcast. It shed a lot of light into why the culture eroded. Basically the players respected Mullen because he would jump their ass and keep them in line. When Moorhead came in- and this is per Fitzgerald- players basically took advantage of his personality which was a lot more "let's be friends" than anything based on what he said.

I'm not saying that makes them "bad guys" as in a bad person but I do think it's probably hard to go from a coach being your friend environment to another hardass.

[Todd4State]

Seems ED is happy about losing now days, I remember how winning a close game against say a lesser opponent and some of you same posters would criticize the "Coach". Now all of a sudden Leach is a COY candidate for some of you guys. I'm pulling for Msu and Leach, always have but I don't like losing and I have seen way more losing season than winning over my years.
Way too much phrase for playing hard while still losing. Aren't you suppose to play hard regardless? This is nothing new, I heard this back in the "old" days, you know like "can't wait till next year or we are Msu". LOL oh how ED has changed to a wanna be Genespage****

Hailstate

Let's not act like Dan didn't have any "moral victories" in year one. LSU and Florida come to mind. And Florida was only close because Banks returned two pick sixes. We averaged 22 PPG that year and then 18 over the next two years. Right now we're at 18 for context. And Dan's "offense" was aided statistically by at least three pick sixes that year stat wise whereas we've only had one this year.

[HancockCountyDog]

I think you have solved it. Shotgun is a bot.

If you told me before the game that we score 24 points and punt the ball 6 times and turn it over once, I would assume everyone would be furious.

Just because our defense kept us in the game with their red zone defense;

Moorhead went to Oxford and ran the ball down their throats in 2018, and yet our current HC was determined to pass it all over the field;

We scored 24 points against a historically bad bear defense.

I get it, I don?t want to think we made a bad hire, and hopefully we keep playing well, we have two winnable games left;

[msstate7]

Let's not act like Dan didn't have any "moral victories" in year one. LSU and Florida come to mind. And Florida was only close because Banks returned two pick sixes. We averaged 22 PPG that year and then 18 over the next two years. Right now we're at 18 for context. And Dan's "offense" was aided statistically by at least three pick sixes that year stat wise whereas we've only had one this year.

Moral victory then vs now...

2009 LSU and 2020 Georgia are pretty even. The difference being we were like a yard from actually beating 2009 lsu.

2009 Florida and 2020 OM are not even. Florida was the defending champ, and brought the most popular CFB in the country to our house.

[Coach34]

Moral Victory?

We score 24 points- which has allowed OM to lower their per game average to under 40 PPG now at 38.8- which has allowed them to move up several spots to 117th in the country. Seeing you guys use the young excuse for us when their D is almost completely devoid of talent is head scratching.

We had 479 yards which was about 60 fewer than they were averaging giving up. That was lowered to 528.5- 125th in the country out of 127

We didnt even get close to meeting their per game averages-nothing moral victory about it. We didnt exceed anything

[Todd4State]

Moral victory then vs now...

2009 LSU and 2020 Georgia are pretty even. The difference being we were like a yard from actually beating 2009 lsu.

2009 Florida and 2020 OM are not even. Florida was the defending champ, and brought the most popular CFB in the country to our house.

I would say our win over LSU is about the same as Dan beating Ole Miss in 2009. Both LSU and Ole Miss were reading their press clippings from last year and we just beat both of them up.

Honestly, this year to me compares historically more to Emory Bellard's 1979 season. He beat Tennessee and Florida and then flamed out. Offense struggled all year. Had a team coming off of probation so it wasn't a great situation either. Bellard is known for the wishbone much like Leach is known for the Air Raid. Once Bellard got John Bond the next year his offense began to click.

[Todd4State]

Moral Victory?

We score 24 points- which has allowed OM to lower their per game average to under 40 PPG now at 38.8- which has allowed them to move up several spots to 117th in the country. Seeing you guys use the young excuse for us when their D is almost completely devoid of talent is head scratching.

We had 479 yards which was about 60 fewer than they were averaging giving up. That was lowered to 528.5- 125th in the country out of 127

We didnt even get close to meeting their per game averages-nothing moral victory about it. We didnt exceed anything

We also held their offense to 9 points less than their average too. With a walk-on filled secondary and freshmen against a team with a strong passing game on the road.

It's not like they stopped us. We had two bad snaps and a chop block that killed drives and a fumble in the end zone. The guy that they beat the most in our secondary was a guy that has barely played and has a bad knee.

Most of the time freshmen get better as their career goes on. Those bad snaps will get cleaned up and our guys will only get better going forward unless we have another worldwide pandemic.

[Percho]

Agreed. So far leach is no better than Moorhead in my opinion. With only looking at what we have seen while they have been here. I do believe we play harder though, no doubt.

You just said you believe we play harder. Does that not make him better, in that he can get them to play harder?

[NCDawg]

I would say our win over LSU is about the same as Dan beating Ole Miss in 2009. Both LSU and Ole Miss were reading their press clippings from last year and we just beat both of them up.

Honestly, this year to me compares historically more to Emory Bellard's 1979 season. He beat Tennessee and Florida and then flamed out. Offense struggled all year. Had a team coming off of probation so it wasn't a great situation either. Bellard is known for the wishbone much like Leach is known for the Air Raid. Once Bellard got John Bond the next year his offense began to click.

Sure hope Leach recruits better than Bellard. Lack of good recruiting was Bellard's downfall. Bellard had a good recruiting year his first year, when he got Bond and a bunch of other good recruits, then he had terrible years after that.

[CaptainObvious]

I'm sick of hearing his guys... Did Mullen have "his guys" in 09? What about in 10? Does Lane or Pittman have his guys?
What about Drink at Mizz?? Leach getting 5MM a year to win games. Good coaches take what they have and try and win. Leach would rather be in Key West

I would rather be in a key West too.

Mullen did not have his QB, but he went ahead and signed Russell because he was essentially the bell coach of the recruiting class. Ole Miss had committed to the running QB, the home state product, then Lane comes in and makes the other QB the center of his offense.
Pittman got a very good(not great but good) QB transfer and it made his offense much better with this 2 running backs.
Drink with got a surprise with his Freshman QB.

Leach flipped a 60% run team to a 90% pass team.

You have to see the issues that could cause.

[Todd4State]

Sure hope Leach recruits better than Bellard. Lack of good recruiting was Bellard's downfall. Bellard had a good recruiting year his first year, when he got Bond and a bunch of other good recruits, then he had terrible years after that.

You're correct and had he recruited better he would have continued to have success.

[BiscuitEater]

Seems ED is happy about losing

Not happy BUT do recognize improvement!

There IS a big difference!

[dawgday166]

A) Every time we lost to OM with Mullen we were THE much better team and he was shopping himself. Those cost us really exceptional seasons a couple of times. We went into those games as either favorite or, in 2014, huge favorite.
B) Moorhead had much more experienced and talented teams than OM both years. Last year OM was playing true FR everywhere and we weren't.

I'm not happy about the loss last night and thought we should've won. I do think we are getting closer to being on right track tho. Still not happy with loss but not hollering for Leach's head over it.

ETA: And every time we were blasting Mullen for blowing an exceptional season against OM, State7 was on here defending him like a mo'fo.

[Bdawg]

Walley and Heath saved Rogers last night. Most of his passes to Heath were 4 yards over his head. Now that could've been designed that way due to Maliks height but it got him hurt at the end of the game. Walley is just a stud. He has been that way since 10th grade. A good thing about Rogers that no one has mentioned is his escapability. He started having success when he rolled out. This brought the Lbs up and provided time for the receivers to get open. Big difference from Costello. But in the future if Leach doesn't incorporate a strong running attack this offense will not work. Everyone talks about how great it was back in the 90's well I don't remember Kentucky having many wining seasons then. And for everyone saying Mullen didn't leave any Recruits well he left us stocked, but it was for his type of offense. Moorhead was just a very bad head coach.

Sorry but Mullen left it stocked to win for one year. But his last few classes left holes in certain position groups we are still recovering from.

[Cowbell]

You just said you believe we play harder. Does that not make him better, in that he can get them to play harder?

Well so far that has been balanced out by an offense that is even worse to this point. I was just pointing out where leach had been better this far.

[Cowbell]

my eyes

The main production in our offense isn't the QB scrambling

Well maybe you should question your eyes. Because the facts say differently.
You said Lightyears ahead of our 2018 offense - we beat Auburn, A&M, Ole miss, and destroyed Arkansas.

[R2Dawg]

You just said you believe we play harder. Does that not make him better, in that he can get them to play harder?

Leach appears to have addressed the culture issue. I think most are talking about the on the field coaching piece. I agree, I don't see any improvement there. So maybe things are better, IDK. It sure doesn't feel like it though. His attitude bothers me, telling fanbase to find another team. Is he a lazy recruiter? IDK, guess we'll see.

[R2Dawg]

Well maybe you should question your eyes. Because the facts say differently.
You said Lightyears ahead of our 2018 offense - we beat Auburn, A&M, Ole miss, and destroyed Arkansas.

Some people see what they wanna see. I prefer to stick with the facts and reality. We all got opinions about what we think the future looks like even though no one knows for sure.

[chef dixon]

Well maybe you should question your eyes. Because the facts say differently.
You said Lightyears ahead of our 2018 offense - we beat Auburn, A&M, Ole miss, and destroyed Arkansas.

We had one of the best defenses in modern CFB history. Ole miss and Arkansas were not nearly as good as they are this year and I wouldn't advise anyone to watch our Auburn and A&M tape for any clinic on offensive football. But you're right, it's not light years better this year. They are/were both really bad offenses but also entirely different systems so hard to compare. At least the last two weeks we are seeing improvement (with true freshman at that) which I'd say we never really saw over 2 years with Joe.

[Todd4State]

A) Every time we lost to OM with Mullen we were THE much better team and he was shopping himself. Those cost us really exceptional seasons a couple of times. We went into those games as either favorite or, in 2014, huge favorite.
B) Moorhead had much more experienced and talented teams than OM both years. Last year OM was playing true FR everywhere and we weren't.

I'm not happy about the loss last night and thought we should've won. I do think we are getting closer to being on right track tho. Still not happy with loss but not hollering for Leach's head over it.

ETA: And every time we were blasting Mullen for blowing an exceptional season against OM, State7 was on here defending him like a mo'fo.

I will never ever understand why MSU just didn't tell Mullen to go take the Maryland job if he was going to keep shopping himself around.

MSU was incredibly generous to him- I can't think of any other SEC school that would let a coach openly shop himself around like that while neglecting their rivalry game. And the sad thing is I'm 99% sure he doesn't give a shit about us.

[sandwolf]

A) Every time we lost to OM with Mullen we were THE much better team and he was shopping himself. Those cost us really exceptional seasons a couple of times. We went into those games as either favorite or, in 2014, huge favorite.

Very little of this is accurate.

In 2012, OM was favored.

In 2014, we were only a 2 point favorite. But I do agree that we should have won that game.

In 2015, they were favored and just flat out better than us....granted, they shouldn't have beaten us as bad as they did, but they they were the better team.

2017 is the only year that we had the much better team......but it's hard for me to hold that one against him, because if Fitz doesn't get injured we would've cruised.

[MrCoachKlein]

Now this is good points! Rogers was good but we have not many big plays although Heath and especially Walley have potential. But prevent defenses will keep the big play in check most of the time.
Gotta find a running game to make the defense adjust in the Sec. OM defense played well against us, now that is sad! Imagine if Kiffin would have kicked FG's instead of gambling to our strength on 4th downs, defense.

My dad and father in law are huge black bear fans. They watched the game with me and said while Kiffen does love analytics and going for it, they think a lot of the time it's because no one has faith in the kicker (same one that missed last year's PAT.) They said unless he's on the 10 or closer he's not going to make it.

[MrCoachKlein]

Same folks finding good news on this board are the same people who wanted to give SloMo and Croom more time. Loser mentality creates losers

That's a drastic over generalization. I haven't been posting very long, but I was in school for the Croom years. You could tell with Croom and MoVester that the program was falling apart. Leach is transitioning us to a completely new offence with about half of the max scholarship players in a year where he basically had no offseason. I'm 100% on board with Leach at least until the '22 season is over. I was ready for JoMo's head after he let Josh Allen wreck our whole offence against KY his first year and refused to help whichever OT was going against him. He proved right then that he either didn't know what he was doing or was in over his head. I also thought 1 year of Croom was more than enough to see he didn't fit. There was never a light at the end of the tunnel like this team has shown the past 2 weeks. I'm also willing to give Leach more slack considering he's done this at 2 different schools and both were awful during his 1st 2 transition years (with a complete offseason).

[BiscuitEater]

Most of his passes to Heath were 4 yards over his head.

Hell of a WR that can catch those passes thrown 12 Feet 'over their head!!'

[basedog]

As some or many have stated about The Pirate not adjusting his offense, imagine IF he would have made a few plays and used GS in a few situations this year to change things up and at least gives us a backup QB. Seems for whatever reason Leach just had no interest whatso ever in believing GS could help. It's who the Pirate is and it is his team, but damn....

[FISHDAWG]

As some or many have stated about The Pirate not adjusting his offense, imagine IF he would have made a few plays and used GS in a few situations this year to change things up and at least gives us a backup QB. Seems for whatever reason Leach just had no interest whatso ever in believing GS could help. It's who the Pirate is and it is his team, but damn....

please don't do me like that ... after the last couple of games I had finally gotten over not using and then losing GS and now you just brought me back in ... I feel like Al Pachino in Godfather part 3 where his cohorts would keep bringing him back in ... I take comfort in the fact that Will is getting some good playing time / experience and showing a lot of promise ..... but I'll always wonder what this season would have been like with GS against a 3-8

[basedog]

please don't do me like that ... after the last couple of games I had finally gotten over not using and then losing GS and now you just brought me back in ... I feel like Al Pachino in Godfather part 3 where his cohorts would keep bringing him back in ... I take comfort in the fact that Will is getting some good playing time / experience and showing a lot of promise ..... but I'll always wonder what this season would have been like with GS against a 3-8

Well at first I was thinking what has GS done to not get some playing time beside WR? Maybe he didn't work hard enough, not a team player but seems he went along with trying to be a receiver but not much playing time. I know now the Pirate ain't gonna have a QB like GS, am I mad about the situation, no but looking back we sure could have used him in certain situations. The Pirate has stated he doesn't like a two headed QB situation. GS if nothing else was a pretty tough Freshman QB, maybe he was immature but that may have changed. Will Rogers has stepped up, I hope he keeps improving and we win these last two games, but lord knows what do we do if he gets injured? Sho is a lot of missing players.

[parabrave]

Hell of a WR that can catch those passes thrown 12 Feet 'over their head!!'


Go watch his TD catch and also the catch he got hurt on. That was well 4 ft over his head.