Our Athletic Dept as a Whole

[confucius say]

I've heard some whispers about the coach that resigned this week. Anybody know exactly what that was about?

Football issues are obvious.

A lot of fans, right or wrong, are not happy with women's basketball coach. I fear that fan support Will not being what it was with Vic.

All that to say, does Cohen survive this if leach doesn't get it turned around? Should he?

[StarkVegasSteve]

No he doesn't survive and no he shouldn't survive if Leach doesn't turn it around. Fair or not, AD's are defined by their hires in football and men's basketball. Find me a P5 AD that has survived more than one bad hire in those sports without some serious accumulated good will.

[Coach34]

Our women's basketball coach better win because she has already alienated some of her fanbase

[Liverpooldawg]

Cohen needs to go no matter what happens with Leach.

[Cooterpoot]

People getting their drawers in a wad over political stuff are stupid. She hasn't even coached a game. Leach rants about Trump. People need to grow the 17 up.
And the likelihood of us firing Cohen is far more slim than you might imagine. It's been over 40 years since we fired an AD, he was the damn coach. Do you think if our President didn't have the sack to fire Moorhead he's going to fire Cohen, who has more support? I'm not sure he does.

[confucius say]

Our women's basketball coach better win because she has already alienated some of her fanbase

Yea that's what I was referring to.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Cohen needs to go today because he is a bad AD.

[Todd4State]

Yea that's what I was referring to.

I don't care about our coaches political beliefs but it's typically poor form to make those known on a work related account.

[confucius say]

Leach hasn't said anything about trump that I'm aware since he's been our coach. The overwhelming majority of our fan base have no idea of his political leanings.

And I don't care who he or any other coach supports. But a lot of fans will

[runwildjerious]

Our women's basketball coach better win because she has already alienated some of her fanbase

If this is over anything political they need to grow up. Just like no one cares if Leach supports Trump, no one should care who she supports. It?s all about results. If we fire Leach it won?t be related to his politics, same with any other coach. A coach doesn?t lose their freedom of speech. People need to learn to listen to views outside their own bubble.

[Cooterpoot]

Leach hasn't said anything about trump that I'm aware since he's been our coach. The overwhelming majority of our fan base have no idea of his political leanings.

And I don't care who he or any other coach supports. But a lot of fans will

He came out with that whole "we aren't as free as we're used to be" shit after the election. Then people all over the internet talking about him being a Trump supporter and friend (it's on here). I'll say again, politics is silliness. Adults getting pissed about it is stupid. I don't give a rats ass who someone votes for.

[Liverpooldawg]

I don't care about Cohen's politics. He needs to go because he is a bad AD.

[bluelightstar]

People are seriously mad that McCray-Penson tweeted something about Biden? Don't think I remember people being "alienated" when Mullen was posting pictures from the 2016 RNC with MAGA hats.

In any event, no public university employee is getting fired because of who they support politically. That's actually what First Amendment retaliation is about...

[RocketDawg]

Our women's basketball coach better win because she has already alienated some of her fanbase

Yes she has. Taking Vic's place was a hard enough job, and she's apparently made it more difficult.

[RocketDawg]

I don't care about our coaches political beliefs but it's typically poor form to make those known on a work related account.

Correct - we should not know or care about the political leanings of Cohen, Leach, the women's basketball coach, or any of the others. They're the ones who make it an issue by opening their mouths.

[Cooterpoot]

Correct - we should not know or care about the political leanings of Cohen, Leach, the women's basketball coach, or any of the others. They're the ones who make it an issue by opening their mouths.

It shouldn't be an issue at all. Grown men getting their feelings hurt over it is pathetic.

[Homedawg]

I've heard some whispers about the coach that resigned this week. Anybody know exactly what that was about?

Football issues are obvious.

A lot of fans, right or wrong, are not happy with women's basketball coach. I fear that fan support Will not being what it was with Vic.

All that to say, does Cohen survive this if leach doesn't get it turned around? Should he?

The women's golf coach?? It happened 2 weeks ago.... who cares really.

[HoopsDawg]

I'm not as down on Cohen as some of yall, BUT can we list some of the positive things he has done since becoming AD? I can't think of many, but I'm sure there are some. I mean he did hire Lemonis and that looks to be a good hire, but Lemonis didn't meet any of the criteria he laid out for the search.

[Dawgology]

I don't care about our coaches political beliefs but it's typically poor form to make those known on a work related account.

Yeah but she has “principles”. That’s all that matters in a coach to some posters here.

[ShotgunDawg]

People getting their drawers in a wad over political stuff are stupid. She hasn't even coached a game. Leach rants about Trump. People need to grow the 17 up.
And the likelihood of us firing Cohen is far more slim than you might imagine. It's been over 40 years since we fired an AD, he was the damn coach. Do you think if our President didn't have the sack to fire Moorhead he's going to fire Cohen, who has more support? I'm not sure he does.

We fired Lonnie

[ShotgunDawg]

I don't think Cohen is bad at his job, but I do question how connected he is in the industry.

When you're a baseball coach, you swim with a different pool of people than you do in athletic administration.

When Stricklin and Byrne would coming up, how many people did they get to know at different institution in marketing, sales, coaching agents, etc? Now, did Cohen get to know those same people while coaching baseball? I doubt it.

Thus, and I could be wrong, it seems like we may have an AD that just isn't that connected with people to share ideas & help him do his job.

[confucius say]

The women's golf coach?? It happened 2 weeks ago.... who cares really.

Nobody would care that she left. But some may be interested in why she left.

[confucius say]

People are seriously mad that McCray-Penson tweeted something about Biden? Don't think I remember people being "alienated" when Mullen was posting pictures from the 2016 RNC with MAGA hats.

In any event, no public university employee is getting fired because of who they support politically. That's actually what First Amendment retaliation is about...

I think she rubbed some people wrong when she was very supportive of BLM (the organization). Then the Biden tweet.

Then others were upset that she removed the tweet, or was required to do so.

[Cooterpoot]

Nobody would care that she left. But some may be interested in why she left.

Playing rock, paper, SCISSORS?

[ShotgunDawg]

I think she rubbed some people wrong when she was very supportive of BLM (the organization). Then the Biden tweet.

Then others were upset that she removed the tweet, or was required to do so.

I don't care really what your political opinions are, but have the awareness to not shit where you eat.

Awareness & contentiousness are two major signs of successful people & when someone shows an inability to read the room & have awareness, I question some things.

[msu15]

Man I miss the days when we argued about how many times Fitzgerald was actually calling his own number instead of running a read.

[Cooterpoot]

I wouldn't care if she was a lesbian that voted for Biden and was a Scientologist if she wins games.

[confucius say]

He came out with that whole "we aren't as free as we're used to be" shit after the election. Then people all over the internet talking about him being a Trump supporter and friend (it's on here). I'll say again, politics is silliness. Adults getting pissed about it is stupid. I don't give a rats ass who someone votes for.

He made that statement in response to whether he had any thoughts he'd like to express on the covid situation. In other words, first amendment protections. And he's right, you don't have the first am protections as a govt employee you had pre Garcetti and the Pickering balancing test. Because he is contractually obligated to speak at pressers, what he says during them is in his ordinary job duties and he may be fired for it. Govt employees don't have first amendment protection when speaking pursuant to their ordinary job duties. Remember, Leach is a lawyer by trade.

[confucius say]

Man I miss the days when we argued about how many times Fitzgerald was actually calling his own number instead of running a read.

And stans! 20 win seasons damn it!

[confucius say]

I wouldn't care if she was a lesbian that voted for Biden and was a Scientologist if she wins games.

Agree

[Cooterpoot]

He made that statement in response to whether he had any thoughts he'd like to express on the covid situation. In other words, first amendment protections. And he's right, you don't have the first am protections as a govt employee you had pre Garcetti and the Pickering balancing test. Because he is contractually obligated to speak at pressers, what he says during them is in his ordinary job duties and he may be fired for it. Govt employees don't have first amendment protection when speaking pursuant to their ordinary job duties. Remember, Leach is a lawyer by trade.

Doesn't matter what he meant. It's how it was perceived. See the twitter incident. Which is also stupid.

[Bothrops]

You have to understand that there will always be athletes and coaches that live in a different planetary orbit. I don't care. I want to win, the earth, hell, and galaxy aren't going to change, just win here.

[BeardoMSU]

Man I miss the days when we argued about how many times Fitzgerald was actually calling his own number instead of running a read.

https://i.gifer.com/FrJn.gif

[Lord McBuckethead]

If this is over anything political they need to grow up. Just like no one cares if Leach supports Trump, no one should care who she supports. It?s all about results. If we fire Leach it won?t be related to his politics, same with any other coach. A coach doesn?t lose their freedom of speech. People need to learn to listen to views outside their own bubble.

Freedom of Speech has nothing to do with this, and yes as a coach of a team with a fanbase and its need to make money....what you say has consequences. Now we can debate if those consequences of the woman's basketball coach or our football coach for that matter are on par with whatever they said or did that approached a political statement here or there, but you are damn wrong that they can say whatever they wish and there isn't consequences.

As representatives of our university, they know better, or they will pretty soon.

[Lord McBuckethead]

I think she rubbed some people wrong when she was very supportive of BLM (the organization). Then the Biden tweet.

Then others were upset that she removed the tweet, or was required to do so.

Good that she supports Biden. Can't wait to donate to his election defense fund again. *****message board explodes in anger *****

[Todd4State]

I don't think Cohen is bad at his job, but I do question how connected he is in the industry.

When you're a baseball coach, you swim with a different pool of people than you do in athletic administration.

When Stricklin and Byrne would coming up, how many people did they get to know at different institution in marketing, sales, coaching agents, etc? Now, did Cohen get to know those same people while coaching baseball? I doubt it.

Thus, and I could be wrong, it seems like we may have an AD that just isn't that connected with people to share ideas & help him do his job.

This is precisely Cohen's problem. He's simply not qualified. Would we hire Greg Byrne to be our baseball coach? It's almost the same difference when you think about it.

Look at even his most successful hire he made an ass out of himself proclaiming that we were going to hire a coach with Omaha experience. And that wasn't fair to Lemonis.

I think Leach will be fine long term mainly because of his historical track record. But people are always going to be upset because "we didn't have to rebuild"- which is happening largely in part because of another bad football hire he made.

[Todd4State]

Freedom of Speech has nothing to do with this, and yes as a coach of a team with a fanbase and its need to make money....what you say has consequences. Now we can debate if those consequences of the woman's basketball coach or our football coach for that matter are on par with whatever they said or did that approached a political statement here or there, but you are damn wrong that they can say whatever they wish and there isn't consequences.

As representatives of our university, they know better, or they will pretty soon.

MSU fails pretty bad at this historically. More specifically with football players during the Moorhead era.

[99jc]

I wouldn't care if she was a lesbian that voted for Biden and was a Scientologist if she wins games.

I wouldn't care if she was a lesbian that voted for Biden and was a Socialist if she wins games. That would be a more correct statement!

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Vic didn?t leave because of the opportunity at Texas. If Stricklin or Byrne or basically any qualified AD besides Cohen were still here, Vic would still be here.

[PGHBulldogBG]

While Lemonis appears to be a good hire, there is no doubt that the search was a train wreck. I think Cohen fell into the trap that many of our fans did thinking we could get any coach we wanted in baseball. I just will never understand hiring a former baseball coach as AD.

[ShotgunDawg]

Vic didn?t leave because of the opportunity at Texas. If Stricklin or Byrne or basically any qualified AD besides Cohen were still here, Vic would still be here.

Then why did Vic leave?

[Homedawg]

Nobody would care that she left. But some may be interested in why she left.

I've heard a couple different things. None of which can be confirmed.... but you can rest assured if it's not her fault, you'll hear about it.

[Homedawg]

Vic didn?t leave because of the opportunity at Texas. If Stricklin or Byrne or basically any qualified AD besides Cohen were still here, Vic would still be here.

Just not true

[StarkVegasSteve]

Vic didn?t leave because of the opportunity at Texas. If Stricklin or Byrne or basically any qualified AD besides Cohen were still here, Vic would still be here.

There may be friction between him and Cohen but I can almost guarantee you that there's more to the story. Will we ever know the whole story? I don't know, but you know there has to be more to the story. I have a couple of theories, but they're just that. I have no evidence to support any of them other than a couple of very unsubstantiated rumors and guessing.

[trojandawg]

Yeah. Have to realize most of your fan base is pretty conservative. You are free to opinion and I don?t much care for what someone?s political belief is but if you push your political beliefs in public with an official account as your official capacity as a state employee and a coach that can have multiple ramifications. For one you lose support of your fan base but on the other hand if she doesn?t support certain trending political ideologies she loses her team. Fine line. If they win more people will not care as much. But looking at pro sports and lack of viewers from the BLM stuff there are a large group of fans that are lost regardless of winning.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Yeah. Have to realize most of your fan base is pretty conservative. You are free to opinion and I don?t much care for what someone?s political belief is but if you push your political beliefs in public with an official account as your official capacity as a state employee and a coach that can have multiple ramifications. For one you lose support of your fan base but on the other hand if she doesn?t support certain trending political ideologies she loses her team. Fine line. If they win more people will not care as much. But looking at pro sports and lack of viewers from the BLM stuff there are a large group of fans that are lost regardless of winning.

There's no doubt that this will lose her some of the unabashed fan support that Vic enjoyed. I mean that was going to happen anyways, but it's just happening at a faster clip than I thought it would. I agree that winning will solve a lot of problems, but there's a certain portion of the fan base that Vic tapped into that won't come back.

[Coach34]

I wouldn't care if she was a lesbian that voted for Biden and was a Scientologist if she wins games.

Agree. But not everybody sees things that way.

[Maverick]

There's a reason for the old saying that you don't talk about religion and politics. Most people could care less where the coach stands but that doesn't mean you put it out there and that is the problem. Just be a coach, end of story....

[msstate7]

I can't stand Biden, but I didn't get upset over her supporting him. Of course, I don't give a rip about women's basketball. I wouldn't care if leach supported Biden either... leach can do what he wants in his personal life if he solves a zone defenses

[FISHDAWG]

Freedom of Speech has nothing to do with this, and yes as a coach of a team with a fanbase and its need to make money....what you say has consequences. Now we can debate if those consequences of the woman's basketball coach or our football coach for that matter are on par with whatever they said or did that approached a political statement here or there, but you are damn wrong that they can say whatever they wish and there isn't consequences.

As representatives of our university, they know better, or they will pretty soon.

does this apply to ALL professors as well ?

[confucius say]

Doesn't matter what he meant. It's how it was perceived. See the twitter incident. Which is also stupid.

Sometimes maybe. But not here.

Reporter: do you have any thoughts on the covid protocols
Leach: oh yea. But it's best I keep that to myself, our freedoms aren't what they use to be.

To perceive that as a comment about Biden winning the election (or a pro trump comment), you'd have to believe leach meant now that Biden is elected my freedom to comment on smn is less. That Biden and/or the fed govt may retaliate against me or punish me if I express my thoughts. It was fine for me to say it last week when trump was president, but not now.

Anybody who interprets leach's comment that way should be called out, not excused. It was a shot at his employer, not Biden.

[Captain Falcon]

Nikki will be fine for the first few years. Vic left her a roster that is too good to fail in that sport. Her coaching will determine if we can get back to another Final Four and compete for a national title, but even if she's just an OK coach, our floor the next couple of years is like the Sweet 16 or worst case scenario the Round of 32. She's got at least two more years of Jessika Carter and at least three more years of Rickea Jackson and Aliyah Matharu, that program isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

As far as the fan interest thing goes... I mean maybe the political stuff didn't help things, but a lot of that will cool down once we are no longer in a highly polarizing election year. At the same time, I'm not sure the crowds that Vic's teams were drawing are sustainable permanently, and that's before you even factor in the effect that COVID will have on attendance for the foreseeable future. You're talking about a niche sport that is wildly popular with a chunk of our fanbase, but then another portion either doesn't care in the least or they actually resent some of the women's success because they think it hurts the men's program that they care more about. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people voice frustrations with small crowds for men's games and then there's always a tongue-in-cheek comment about "oh but don't worry, I'm sure it'll be full for the women's game on Sunday".

The women will always have some level of support as long as they are winning 25-30 games a year, but the minute they become just OK again then you'll see a lot of the fan interest fade. Especially if a down year for the women happens to coincide with a big year for the men.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Nikki will be fine for the first few years. Vic left her a roster that is too good to fail in that sport. Her coaching will determine if we can get back to another Final Four and compete for a national title, but even if she's just an OK coach, our floor the next couple of years is like the Sweet 16 or worst case scenario the Round of 32. She's got at least two more years of Jessika Carter and at least three more years of Rickea Jackson and Aliyah Matharu, that program isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

As far as the fan interest thing goes... I mean maybe the political stuff didn't help things, but a lot of that will cool down once we are no longer in a highly polarizing election year. At the same time, I'm not sure the crowds that Vic's teams were drawing are sustainable permanently, and that's before you even factor in the effect that COVID will have on attendance for the foreseeable future. You're talking about a niche sport that is wildly popular with a chunk of our fanbase, but then another portion either doesn't care in the least or they actually resent some of the women's success because they think it hurts the men's program that they care more about. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people voice frustrations with small crowds for men's games and then there's always a tongue-in-cheek comment about "oh but don't worry, I'm sure it'll be full for the women's game on Sunday".

The women will always have some level of support as long as they are winning 25-30 games a year, but the minute they become just OK again then you'll see a lot of the fan interest fade. Especially if a down year for the women happens to coincide with a big year for the men.

I think that saying will haunt State fans for years to come.

[Maroonthirteen]

I'm honestly surprised if she was truly made to remove a tweet in support of Biden/Harris by the AD or University.

Because the University has been in full support of left political ideology for years.

[DeltaChicagoDog]

Vic didn?t leave because of the opportunity at Texas. If Stricklin or Byrne or basically any qualified AD besides Cohen were still here, Vic would still be here.

Well...we're waiting...

[Maroonthirteen]

There's a reason for the old saying that you don't talk about religion and politics. Most people could care less where the coach stands but that doesn't mean you put it out there and that is the problem. Just be a coach, end of story....

Those days are over. Athletes believe they have a platform. They will continue to use it in pro and college sports.

[Extendedcab]

Yeah but she has ?principles?. That?s all that matters in a coach to some posters here.

I think there is a misunderstanding in what previous posts implied regarding ethics. Ethics is not all that matters, however it is the primary criteria. In other words if a coach does not have ethics then they automatically do NOT qualify for the job. When a coach or coaches are found that do have ethics, then we grade them on how well they coach. It is pretty simple!

My question, regarding ethical coaches, is why would you want an unethical coach 1) representing your university and 2) having access to young impressionable kids? This is a recipe for disaster! Look at Freeze, hiring a call service for himself and reportedly for prospective student/athletics as well! Look at Penn State, the MSU baseball coach a couple of years ago, now I'm hearing our golf coach was fired for improprieties. This level of depravity was unheard of in generations pasts. Has anybody thought about the negative impact these coaches have on the students/athletics? What has happen to us as a people? The apostle Paul wrote, that men in the last days would become "incontinent", or without self-control, and "lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God". Those phrases accurately describe the self-centered mindset overrunning our nation. How disgraceful!

I love MSU just as much as anyone else, (I am a 82 graduate in electrical engineering, my wife went to MSU for 1 year, 3 of my 4 sons went to MSU - 2 graduated with degrees in physics), but is putting a W in the win column more important than hiring a moral person first and foremost and then a coach? Is there any such person left that would fill that role? I have ethics, but I am not a coach, even though I play one on TV :) or else I would apply!

There has to be a better way than imitating unethical institutions by hiring known unethical people.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I think there is a misunderstanding in what previous posts implied regarding ethics. Ethics is not all that matters, however it is the primary criteria. In other words if a coach does not have ethics then they automatically do NOT qualify for the job. When a coach or coaches are found that do have ethics, then we grade them on how well they coach. It is pretty simple!

My question, regarding ethical coaches, is why would you want an unethical coach 1) representing your university and 2) having access to young impressionable kids? This is a recipe for disaster! Look at Freeze, hiring a call service for himself and reportedly for prospective student/athletics as well! Look at Penn State, the MSU baseball coach a couple of years ago, now I'm hearing our golf coach was fired for improprieties. This level of depravity was unheard of in generations pasts. Has anybody thought about the negative impact these coaches have on the students/athletics? What has happen to us as a people? The apostle Paul wrote, that men in the last days would become "incontinent", or without self-control, and "lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God". Those phrases accurately describe the self-centered mindset overrunning our nation. How disgraceful!

I love MSU just as much as anyone else, (I am a 82 graduate in electrical engineering, my wife went to MSU for 1 year, 3 of my 4 sons went to MSU - 2 graduated with degrees in physics), but is putting a W in the win column more important than hiring a moral person first and foremost and then a coach? Is there any such person left that would fill that role? I have ethics, but I am not a coach, even though I play one on TV :) or else I would apply!

There has to be a better way than imitating unethical institutions by hiring known unethical people.

You want honesty.....YES. I don't care about what they do in their private lives. They want to sleep around, that's fine. As long as it doesn't affect their coaching ability I really don't care. That's what gott Cann fired. It affected his coaching ability. I'd much rather win than go 4-8 just to say we got a nice guy coaching us. If ethics mattered then Dan Mullen wouldn't have been our HC, Jackie Sherrill wouldn't have been our HC, Rick Stansbury would've been fired long before he "retired", Dak Prescott would've been kicked off the team before 14, and I could go on and on. If you want to stand on a moral high ground then you'll have to continually be happy with crappy coaches.

[BrunswickDawg]

I think there is a misunderstanding in what previous posts implied regarding ethics. Ethics is not all that matters, however it is the primary criteria. In other words if a coach does not have ethics then they automatically do NOT qualify for the job. When a coach or coaches are found that do have ethics, then we grade them on how well they coach. It is pretty simple!

My question, regarding ethical coaches, is why would you want an unethical coach 1) representing your university and 2) having access to young impressionable kids? This is a recipe for disaster! Look at Freeze, hiring a call service for himself and reportedly for prospective student/athletics as well! Look at Penn State, the MSU baseball coach a couple of years ago, now I'm hearing our golf coach was fired for improprieties. This level of depravity was unheard of in generations pasts. Has anybody thought about the negative impact these coaches have on the students/athletics? What has happen to us as a people? The apostle Paul wrote, that men in the last days would become "incontinent", or without self-control, and "lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God". Those phrases accurately describe the self-centered mindset overrunning our nation. How disgraceful!

I love MSU just as much as anyone else, (I am a 82 graduate in electrical engineering, my wife went to MSU for 1 year, 3 of my 4 sons went to MSU - 2 graduated with degrees in physics), but is putting a W in the win column more important than hiring a moral person first and foremost and then a coach? Is there any such person left that would fill that role? I have ethics, but I am not a coach, even though I play one on TV :) or else I would apply!

There has to be a better way than imitating unethical institutions by hiring known unethical people.

Absolute BS. People have let their desires rule them since the beginning of time (or have you not read Genesis?). Coaches have committed all sorts of improprieties at universities since they first began athletic competition. Hell, the first Egg Bowl was delayed because Ole Miss believed that we hired professional ringers to play the game. Do you know why Babe McCarthy was fired? Why Richard Williams "retired"? MSU had a player shaving points in basketball in the early 60s. Ever heard of the Black Sox?

I'm not condoning any of it - but to act like there is some Golden Era of Principals and Ethics in sports is possibly the dumbest take I've ever read on a message board.

[Johnson85]

People are seriously mad that McCray-Penson tweeted something about Biden? Don't think I remember people being "alienated" when Mullen was posting pictures from the 2016 RNC with MAGA hats.

In any event, no public university employee is getting fired because of who they support politically. That's actually what First Amendment retaliation is about...

Is that all she did, was post something about Biden? Damn, I think Biden is pretty despicable, but I still don't have a problem with her supporting him. I'd have to have a problem with probably 25% of the country? I assumed she had posted something BLM related, which should also be fine, but there are at least a lot of looters, arsonists, and people engaging in violence while claiming the BLM mantle, so I can at least get people be bothered by anything that looks like support of that.

[Extendedcab]

Absolute BS. People have let their desires rule them since the beginning of time (or have you not read Genesis?). Coaches have committed all sorts of improprieties at universities since they first began athletic competition. Hell, the first Egg Bowl was delayed because Ole Miss believed that we hired professional ringers to play the game. Do you know why Babe McCarthy was fired? Why Richard Williams "retired"? MSU had a player shaving points in basketball in the early 60s. Ever heard of the Black Sox?

I'm not condoning any of it - but to act like there is some Golden Era of Principals and Ethics in sports is possibly the dumbest take I've ever read on a message board.

The only dumb stance is not realizing that morals in the country and around the world have eroded over time. Look at the activities we allow and celebrate today compared to times past. One example, look at pop music stars and the way they dress, predominately on stage, and the way they gyrate on stage like some uncontrollable animal. In days past, men wore suites or coats onstage and women wore apparel that did not degenerate them and make them look like some cheap whore.

People today are less ethical/moral as a whole, yes, ethics/morals were taught years ago - the bible was taught in schools - not anymore since around 1962. Look at the discussion we are having here about hiring Freeze, a person that is known to hire call girls not just for himself but for teenagers as well! There are people on this board are all for hiring him! Why, just because he wins football games? But at what cost to the young student athletics and to the reputation of the university? None of that seems to matter, just win baby, just win at all cost!

Go back to the beginning of this country and this type of behavior was unheard of "as a whole"- it was severely condemned and pushed into the fringes of society. Those that did practice this type of behavior were severely punished - public whippings, fines, even capital punishment for the more sever offenders.

So my statements were not that we as a people did not commit sins, we all do as fallen creation, but that as a whole unethical or unmoral behavior was done in secret and not publicly pronounced and celebrated like we do today. People used to be ashamed of their sins and wanted to cover it up as much as possible.

Also in the past if a person was unethical, his professional career was finished. Today, they get another job at a so called Christian institution; really? And now since he is winning there, people are wanting to hire him or recommend he be hired at other more prominent institutions!

[StarkVegasSteve]

The only dumb stance is not realizing that morals in the country and around the world have eroded over time. Look at the activities we allow and celebrate today compared to times past. One example, look at pop music stars and the way they dress, predominately on stage, and the way they gyrate on stage like some uncontrollable animal. In days past, men wore suites or coats onstage and women wore apparel that did not degenerate them and make them look like some cheap whore.

People today are less ethical/moral as a whole, yes, ethics/morals were taught years ago - the bible was taught in schools - not anymore since around 1962. Look at the discussion we are having here about hiring Freeze, a person that is known to hire call girls not just for himself but for teenagers as well! There are people on this board are all for hiring him! Why, just because he wins football games? But at what cost to the young student athletics and to the reputation of the university? None of that seems to matter, just win baby, just win at all cost!

Go back to the beginning of this country and this type of behavior was unheard of "as a whole"- it was severely condemned and pushed into the fringes of society. Those that did practice this type of behavior were severely punished - public whippings, fines, even capital punishment for the more sever offenders.

So my statements were not that we as a people did not commit sins, we all do as fallen creation, but that as a whole unethical or unmoral behavior was done in secret and not publicly pronounced and celebrated like we do today. People used to be ashamed of their sins and wanted to cover it up as much as possible.

Also in the past if a person was unethical, his professional career was finished. Today, they get another job at a so called Christian institution; really? And now since he is winning there, people are wanting to hire him or recommend he be hired at other more prominent institutions!

So since you want to go the religion route on this one, why does Freeze not deserve a second chance? Why does one mistake cause someone to be cast out? Does the bible not say that all sin and fall short of the glory of God? You can't pick and choose what you want to condemn if you want to go that route. Hugh won't be hired here for a few reasons, but his past shouldn't be one of them. His name has been dragged through the mud and he seems to have changed his ways. Whether he has, I don't know. But he's a successful coach and an amazing play caller. I'd be willing to give him a chance if there was a chance in hell he'd actually come here.

[BeardoMSU]

I see we've reached the inevitable "Sunday School" portion of this thread**

https://i.imgur.com/HbQtD4a.gif

[Extendedcab]

So since you want to go the religion route on this one, why does Freeze not deserve a second chance? Why does one mistake cause someone to be cast out? Does the bible not say that all sin and fall short of the glory of God? You can't pick and choose what you want to condemn if you want to go that route. Hugh won't be hired here for a few reasons, but his past shouldn't be one of them. His name has been dragged through the mud and he seems to have changed his ways. Whether he has, I don't know. But he's a successful coach and an amazing play caller. I'd be willing to give him a chance if there was a chance in hell he'd actually come here.

Coaches get a second chance? What about the embezzler that gets caught and goes to prison. They socially paid the price of the crime. Would you hire that person to be your accountant or CFO? I don't think so.

Forgiveness is a different issue! I do forgive Freeze IF he has truly had a change of heart. However, the bible also teaches a concept of being disqualified in your job for past sins as well - see 1 Corinthians 9:27 - "I discipline my body like an athlete, training it to do what it should. Otherwise, I fear that after preaching to others I myself might be disqualified."

Freeze should be disqualified form being a coach, he should go do something else.

This is not talking about loosing your salvation, so don't go there!

[Extendedcab]

I see we've reached the inevitable "Sunday School" portion of this thread**

https://i.imgur.com/HbQtD4a.gif

If this is what the WORLD thinks of Christianity, then they have missed the mark, again! I think this scene is from a Benny Hinn, charismatic preacher, in one of his crusades. This is nothing like main stream Christian churches in America.

[R2Dawg]

Our women's basketball coach better win because she has already alienated some of her fanbase

What has she done? Have not seen anything.

[Matt3467]

I think there is a misunderstanding in what previous posts implied regarding ethics. Ethics is not all that matters, however it is the primary criteria. In other words if a coach does not have ethics then they automatically do NOT qualify for the job. When a coach or coaches are found that do have ethics, then we grade them on how well they coach. It is pretty simple!

My question, regarding ethical coaches, is why would you want an unethical coach 1) representing your university and 2) having access to young impressionable kids? This is a recipe for disaster! Look at Freeze, hiring a call service for himself and reportedly for prospective student/athletics as well! Look at Penn State, the MSU baseball coach a couple of years ago, now I'm hearing our golf coach was fired for improprieties. This level of depravity was unheard of in generations pasts. Has anybody thought about the negative impact these coaches have on the students/athletics? What has happen to us as a people? The apostle Paul wrote, that men in the last days would become "incontinent", or without self-control, and "lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God". Those phrases accurately describe the self-centered mindset overrunning our nation. How disgraceful!

I love MSU just as much as anyone else, (I am a 82 graduate in electrical engineering, my wife went to MSU for 1 year, 3 of my 4 sons went to MSU - 2 graduated with degrees in physics), but is putting a W in the win column more important than hiring a moral person first and foremost and then a coach? Is there any such person left that would fill that role? I have ethics, but I am not a coach, even though I play one on TV :) or else I would apply!

There has to be a better way than imitating unethical institutions by hiring known unethical people.

I wish the world over people thought like you but fact is that there will never be sports without corruption and there's next to no chance a consistent winner will be built in college football without some shortcuts. You replied the other day and said that you hoped I didn't lead my personal life that way and the answer is I don't. There's a difference though between my personal life and sports. I would also never entertain coaching because I know that unless I wanted to go far and win big on the big stage there would have to be some moral sacrifices somewhere. Just the way it is in sports.

[R2Dawg]

Man I miss the days when we argued about how many times Fitzgerald was actually calling his own number instead of running a read.

Hah, so true.

[Matt3467]

The only dumb stance is not realizing that morals in the country and around the world have eroded over time. Look at the activities we allow and celebrate today compared to times past. One example, look at pop music stars and the way they dress, predominately on stage, and the way they gyrate on stage like some uncontrollable animal. In days past, men wore suites or coats onstage and women wore apparel that did not degenerate them and make them look like some cheap whore.

People today are less ethical/moral as a whole, yes, ethics/morals were taught years ago - the bible was taught in schools - not anymore since around 1962. Look at the discussion we are having here about hiring Freeze, a person that is known to hire call girls not just for himself but for teenagers as well! There are people on this board are all for hiring him! Why, just because he wins football games? But at what cost to the young student athletics and to the reputation of the university? None of that seems to matter, just win baby, just win at all cost!

Go back to the beginning of this country and this type of behavior was unheard of "as a whole"- it was severely condemned and pushed into the fringes of society. Those that did practice this type of behavior were severely punished - public whippings, fines, even capital punishment for the more sever offenders.

So my statements were not that we as a people did not commit sins, we all do as fallen creation, but that as a whole unethical or unmoral behavior was done in secret and not publicly pronounced and celebrated like we do today. People used to be ashamed of their sins and wanted to cover it up as much as possible.

Also in the past if a person was unethical, his professional career was finished. Today, they get another job at a so called Christian institution; really? And now since he is winning there, people are wanting to hire him or recommend he be hired at other more prominent institutions!

As a father raising a daughter I would dissuade her from attending the majority secular colleges (and several "christian" colleges too) and yes that includes State. I've seen the way education has gone and morals have gone out of the window. I don't like the way it is but sometimes the only way to deal with it is avoid it.

[PendingTransaction]

What has she done? Have not seen anything.

You won't believe it...she tweeted a picture of Biden and Harris! Just desecrated our University's great southern conservative values. It will probably result in her not being able to recruit any players from our fine Mississippi Academies.

[R2Dawg]

Yeah. Have to realize most of your fan base is pretty conservative. You are free to opinion and I don?t much care for what someone?s political belief is but if you push your political beliefs in public with an official account as your official capacity as a state employee and a coach that can have multiple ramifications. For one you lose support of your fan base but on the other hand if she doesn?t support certain trending political ideologies she loses her team. Fine line. If they win more people will not care as much. But looking at pro sports and lack of viewers from the BLM stuff there are a large group of fans that are lost regardless of winning.

A person would be best served to hold those beliefs less public no matter where you fall. Like MJ said years ago, Republicans buy sneakers too. Great one liner and true.

[R2Dawg]

So since you want to go the religion route on this one, why does Freeze not deserve a second chance? Why does one mistake cause someone to be cast out? Does the bible not say that all sin and fall short of the glory of God? You can't pick and choose what you want to condemn if you want to go that route. Hugh won't be hired here for a few reasons, but his past shouldn't be one of them. His name has been dragged through the mud and he seems to have changed his ways. Whether he has, I don't know. But he's a successful coach and an amazing play caller. I'd be willing to give him a chance if there was a chance in hell he'd actually come here.

Good point but here is the problem. People mix the two but separate issues. From a righteousness standpoint, yes we are all sinners and need the righteous blood of Christ to save us but just because that is true does not erase the consequences of our sin in this life. Murders in prison are saved and had their sin erased by Jesus' forgiveness all the time but they still have to serve their time. People can and do get second chances but that is very situational. Do you hire a guy that was guilty of stealing millions of $ to keep your books or too big a risk?

For Freeze, I'd probably give him a second chance at some point, hey he has that already at a Christian University so already done.

[Maroonthirteen]

Just desecrated our University's great southern conservative values. It will probably result in her not being able to recruit any players from our fine Mississippi Academies.

Regarding the fans pushing back on the basketball coach, I have a feeling this thread is making a mountain out of an ant hill.

Maybe there is a few folks at the Bogiechitto barber shop that complain thatMiss State has a liberal coach. However the folks that actually go to games have similar political views of the coach.

As for recruitment; the president to the ad to the ball coach will tow whatever political view to land players. Recruiting will be fine despite Bob from Bogiechitto.

[StarkVegasSteve]

You won't believe it...she tweeted a picture of Biden and Harris! Just desecrated our University's great southern conservative values. It will probably result in her not being able to recruit any players from our fine Mississippi Academies.

This is actually kind of humorous because right after Vic was hired there was a girl playing at Starkville Academy that some of the lifelong women's basketball fans wanted him to offer and instead he offered his daughter. Those people swore they'd never step foot in the Hump again until he was gone. Those same people were right back there when we were winning. Just more proof that winning solves everything.

For reference, his daughter was a two year starter on a team that played for 2 consecutive national championships, the other girl was a reserve that played at Central Arkansas. I think Vic made the right choice.

[AROB44]

The "wonderful" thing about message boards is that you can always find folks who will bitch about something relating to the University.....academics, athletics, president, coaches, players ... you name it ... there is always somebody..

[Mobile Bay]

Yes she has. Taking Vic's place was a hard enough job, and she's apparently made it more difficult.

I don't know. I doubt it's bothering the recruits and players. Might even help there. Who knows, the next Tiera McCowin might have had a Biden sign in the yard, or all over her Instagram.

[Captain Falcon]

I think that saying will haunt State fans for years to come.

In any other sport I would agree with you, but women's basketball is such a haves and have nots sport. Nikki may gradually end up failing, but I would be really shocked if it happens immediately. I guess it also depends on your definition of failure.

[Percho]

So since you want to go the religion route on this one, why does Freeze not deserve a second chance? Why does one mistake cause someone to be cast out? Does the bible not say that all sin and fall short of the glory of God? You can't pick and choose what you want to condemn if you want to go that route. Hugh won't be hired here for a few reasons, but his past shouldn't be one of them. His name has been dragged through the mud and he seems to have changed his ways. Whether he has, I don't know. But he's a successful coach and an amazing play caller. I'd be willing to give him a chance if there was a chance in hell he'd actually come here.

Second, chance? Read between the lines a bit on, Hey Hugh.

[was21]

The United States is now an almost secular country. Religion is an outlier. There are a lot of hypocrites. The way it's viewed is one's professional life and then there's the personal life...two sides viewed from different perspectives. Unfortunately, that's the way it is. If you're good at your job, and yet your personal life is a moral trainwreck it's not newsworthy.

[maroonmania]

Regarding the fans pushing back on the basketball coach, I have a feeling this thread is making a mountain out of an ant hill.

Maybe there is a few folks at the Bogiechitto barber shop that complain thatMiss State has a liberal coach. However the folks that actually go to games have similar political views of the coach.

As for recruitment; the president to the ad to the ball coach will tow whatever political view to land players. Recruiting will be fine despite Bob from Bogiechitto.

While I would certainly prefer our coaches kept their political views to themselves, it certainly doesn't bother me that our WBB coach is a Biden/Harris supporter. Maybe its profiling but given that 90%+ of all African-Americans support liberal democrat candidates, I pretty much assume it to be that way unless someone of color makes it clear to me that they aren't a liberal supporter. So why would it be a big deal to anyone? The real shocker would be if she was somehow a conservative Republican.

[msu15]

Regarding the fans pushing back on the basketball coach, I have a feeling this thread is making a mountain out of an ant hill.

Maybe there is a few folks at the Bogiechitto barber shop that complain thatMiss State has a liberal coach. However the folks that actually go to games have similar political views of the coach.

As for recruitment; the president to the ad to the ball coach will tow whatever political view to land players. Recruiting will be fine despite Bob from Bogiechitto.
Guaranteed that more people who go to the games have different political views than the coach.

[Quaoarsking]

I sure hope everyone #offended by Coach McCray's Tweet had the same reaction to this one:

755921807002046464

[Homedawg]

I sure hope everyone #offended by Coach McCray's Tweet had the same reaction to this one:

755921807002046464

There are a couple of issues w this and the one from our current women's coach. Our football coach was told to "chill" his posts on Twitter. So if he's told to "chill" then shouldn't what's good for the goose be good for the gander? Now, I'll say it's stupid he was told to chill out. Basically stupid. But can't ask him if not ask her. Yet, she was allowed to go w the BLM mantra forever....... double standard already if you ask me but I digress

[Quaoarsking]

There are a couple of issues w this and the one from our current women's coach. Our football coach was told to "chill" his posts on Twitter. So if he's told to "chill" then shouldn't what's good for the goose be good for the gander? Now, I'll say it's stupid he was told to chill out. Basically stupid. But can't ask him if not ask her. Yet, she was allowed to go w the BLM mantra forever....... double standard already if you ask me but I digress

As already established on this thread, McCray was apparently told to "chill" too. Her posts about Biden (really about Harris) are gone. Mullen, under a prior AD, is the one whose political posts were allowed to remain. Cohen appears to have a different stance than Stricklin on whether our coaches should be keeping politics out of their official Twitter accounts.

[Bothrops]

BLM movement has a lot of benevolent, well-intentioned people fooled, but there's no need to dwell on it now. Politics is like SEC recruiting, not a fair sport and it stinks.

[Matt3467]

As already established on this thread, McCray was apparently told to "chill" too. Her posts about Biden (really about Harris) are gone. Mullen, under a prior AD, is the one whose political posts were allowed to remain. Cohen appears to have a different stance than Stricklin on whether our coaches should be keeping politics out of their official Twitter accounts.

I don't think it would matter which administration was in charge today. The political landscape has changed drastically in the last 4 years. What was winked at then isn't anymore.

[ShotgunDawg]

BLM movement has a lot of benevolent, well-intentioned people fooled, but there's no need to dwell on it now. Politics is like SEC recruiting, not a fair sport and it stinks.

Activists need racism to get paid & win elections. If they didn't have it, they wouldn't get paid & couldn't win elections. Thus racism is in far great demand than it is in supply

[HancockCountyDog]

There are a couple of issues w this and the one from our current women's coach. Our football coach was told to "chill" his posts on Twitter. So if he's told to "chill" then shouldn't what's good for the goose be good for the gander? Now, I'll say it's stupid he was told to chill out. Basically stupid. But can't ask him if not ask her. Yet, she was allowed to go w the BLM mantra forever....... double standard already if you ask me but I digress

I would think that most people would understand the nuance in the situation of a football coach that is coaching a team of mostly young black men that marched in support of BLM, may not want to tweet out his clear support for a candidate or at least a bunch of his supporters have taken a position that BLM is not a good movement and that kneeling and Kaep are not things they like in this country.

Go ask any black football player if they support Kaep and what he did. I would think you would be looking at a 90% or higher support rate. Lets remember Trump has said some hateful things about yanking him off the field, forcing him to stand and whatnot.

Now lets be clear, this is not a post about who is right on this issue - its just the reality of the position on both sides. One of the things Leach has gotten right is muting his twitter personality. I've been very happy about that. I think the situations are clearly different and I could see this decision by someone in our AD's office to potentially be a problem. Hopefully not, but it is not a good look.

[Extendedcab]

I wish the world over people thought like you but fact is that there will never be sports without corruption and there's next to no chance a consistent winner will be built in college football without some shortcuts. You replied the other day and said that you hoped I didn't lead my personal life that way and the answer is I don't. There's a difference though between my personal life and sports. I would also never entertain coaching because I know that unless I wanted to go far and win big on the big stage there would have to be some moral sacrifices somewhere. Just the way it is in sports.

My comments are not against you, but don't you think your description of sports and what it takes to "get to the top" is a very SAD commentary on the state of sports in general? They have to cheat or they won't succeed? If it is that bad at the non-professional levels, how bad is it in the pro ranks? WOW!! Then why punish Lance Armstrong, Rafael Palmeiro or even the Houston Astros club for cheating if everybody else cheats - but maybe in different ways?

[Matt3467]

My comments are not against you, but don't you think your description of sports and what it takes to "get to the top" is a very SAD commentary on the state of sports in general? They have to cheat or they won't succeed? If it is that bad at the non-professional levels, how bad is it in the pro ranks? WOW!! Then why punish Lance Armstrong, Rafael Palmeiro or even the Houston Astros club for cheating if everybody else cheats - but maybe in different ways?

You're right that it is a sad commentary. Why watch sports in general then? Tbh though I barely watch any sports anymore. About the only thing I watch is MSU football and even then that's been declining. I didn't watch the Vandy game. There's several games the last few years I haven't watched only to refer to the boxscore at the end. There was a time I'd religiously set aside time and anything else to watch State play but I really just don't care like I used to.