Moorhead, Pruitt, and Morris

[msu15]

Those were our three finalists in 2017. John Cohen is one hell of an AD.

[viverlibre]

haha, at least Pruitt can recruit!

[Irondawg]

The weird part is they ALL landed SEC gigs and all have not done terribly well.

Moorhead did put up about 500 yards of offense against Stanford tonight

[msstate7]

I thought Pruitt was turning the corner early this year. I was wrong. I was really wrong.

[msu15]

I thought Pruitt was turning the corner early this year. I was wrong. I was really wrong.

Me too brother. I still think we go 10-3/11-2 with him in 2018, but I think we'd still be a bad team this year.

[HoopsDawg]

We can't have Cohen choosing our next football coach. In fairness, I think Judge would have been a strong hire, but I don't have any evidence to back up that claim.

[msu15]

We can't have Cohen choosing our next football coach. In fairness, I think Judge would have been a strong hire, but I don't have any evidence to back up that claim.

The fact of Judge not being married to an offensive or defensive scheme won me over. I'm so tired of it

[maroonmania]

Basically, in Cohen's last search, it was going to be Joe Judge but circumstances turned it into Mike Leach. I'm wondering though, based on what we've seen so far, if most MSU fans would have rather taken their chances with Judge than with what we currently have with Leach? Most seemed to be glad we got Leach at the time because of Judge not having any HC experience and little to no college experience. Leach certainly had the more proven track record. Wondering how most feel now?

[msu15]

Basically, in Cohen's last search, it was going to be Joe Judge but circumstances turned it into Mike Leach. I'm wondering though, based on what we've seen so far, if most MSU fans would have rather taken their chances with Judge than with what we currently have with Leach? Most seemed to be glad we got Leach at the time because of Judge not having any HC experience and little to no college experience. Leach certainly had the more proven track record. Wondering how most feel now?
See my previous post. Though I'll still support the team and be at every game, I think hiring someone that's tied to a scheme really hamstrings you creatively and in recruiting.

[HoopsDawg]

Basically, in Cohen's last search, it was going to be Joe Judge but circumstances turned it into Mike Leach. I'm wondering though, based on what we've seen so far, if most MSU fans would have rather taken their chances with Judge than with what we currently have with Leach? Most seemed to be glad we got Leach at the time because of Judge not having any HC experience and little to no college experience. Leach certainly had the more proven track record. Wondering how most feel now?

Probably 70% of message board posters were against the Judge hire which made me like him even more. But I agree with msu15, not married to a system is a big selling point to me.

[Todd4State]

Basically, in Cohen's last search, it was going to be Joe Judge but circumstances turned it into Mike Leach. I'm wondering though, based on what we've seen so far, if most MSU fans would have rather taken their chances with Judge than with what we currently have with Leach? Most seemed to be glad we got Leach at the time because of Judge not having any HC experience and little to no college experience. Leach certainly had the more proven track record. Wondering how most feel now?

Judge hasn't exactly been awesome with the Giants. I honestly don't think he would have been much better. We're starting freshmen all over the offense and on defense we're starting a walk-on. The culture issues are bad and are just now starting to get fixed. Plus Judge would have to learn on the job.

The only way out of this is to develop the young players we have while adding talent to it and re-establishing a winning culture. It absolutely sucks now. But if we are patient hopefully we will have big gains in two years.

[Irondawg]

Coaches will always say they aren’t married to a system but you still have to pick one and you can’t be changing it very much every year.

[maroonmania]

See my previous post. Though I'll still support the team and be at every game, I think hiring someone that's tied to a scheme really hamstrings you creatively and in recruiting.

Well it definitely hamstrings you if the scheme isn't effective (like Croom's Gulf Coast offense - yuk). Leach's scheme has been mostly effective at TT and WSU, but it may be 2 or 3 years before we can really say whether it will work for us in the SEC.

[HoopsDawg]

Coaches will always say they aren’t married to a system but you still have to pick one and you can’t be changing it very much every year.

Leach is married to the Air Raid. Moorhead was in love with his RPO's.

[DownwardDawg]

Well, Judge might be available in a couple years.

[HoopsDawg]

Well it definitely hamstrings you if the scheme isn't effective (like Croom's Gulf Coast offense - yuk). Leach's scheme has been mostly effective at TT and WSU, but it may be 2 or 3 years before we can really say whether it will work for us in the SEC.

really bro? I'm shocked that anyone can still think this will work. You can't be one-dimensional in this conference. It is painfully obvious.

[msu15]

Well it definitely hamstrings you if the scheme isn't effective (like Croom's Gulf Coast offense - yuk). Leach's scheme has been mostly effective at TT and WSU, but it may be 2 or 3 years before we can really say whether it will work for us in the SEC.

No doubt, and there's definitely a chance he gets it going here.

[HoopsDawg]

No doubt, and there's definitely a chance he gets it going here.

I truly believe there's no shot.

[maroonmania]

Judge hasn't exactly been awesome with the Giants. I honestly don't think he would have been much better. We're starting freshmen all over the offense and on defense we're starting a walk-on. The culture issues are bad and are just now starting to get fixed. Plus Judge would have to learn on the job.

The only way out of this is to develop the young players we have while adding talent to it and re-establishing a winning culture. It absolutely sucks now. But if we are patient hopefully we will have big gains in two years.

Yea, I'm not convinced that he would have been more successful in the long run. Since he likely would not have had as drastic of a change in offensive scheme it would have likely been an easier transition this year. Not sure how he would have been on player defections as opposed to Leach.

[Irondawg]

Leach is married to the Air Raid. Moorhead was in love with his RPO's.

True and most OC types are but if you hired Judge I don’t think he would bring in the air raid or the wishbone. He would probably have started with something like it’s running now and we would be having similar results as the NYG.

I’m not trying to cover from Leach but I’m not sure our talent could run any offense really well

[msu15]

I truly believe there's no shot.

You're definitely ahead in the electoral vote so far lol. I was in attendance and the last time I felt that way during a 3rd quarter offensively we had a 5'10 QB.

[msstate7]

I truly believe there's no shot.

I wouldn't say "no shot". Probably bout the same odds as a 4th and 20 vs the 85 bears**

[viverlibre]

I have not watched a Giants game, but on National Sports Radio Shows, most think Judge is doing a good job in first year (with what he has been handed).

[msstate7]

I have not watched a Giants game, but on National Sports Radio Shows, most think Judge is doing a good job in first year (with what he has been handed).

Daniel Jones is a TO machine. He's clearly a talented qb, but he beats his own team almost every game. I think jones will grow out of the TOs though, and they'll get Barkley back along with another top 5 pick.

[Todd4State]

Yea, I'm not convinced that he would have been more successful in the long run. Since he likely would not have had as drastic of a change in offensive scheme it would have likely been an easier transition this year. Not sure how he would have been on player defections as opposed to Leach.

He may have been fine- but there are so many unknowns with him. Even if we were to hire him as our coach- how is he at recruiting? I suspect he would have made Derek Dooley our OC based on the fact that he is currently on the Giants staff. He wasn't all world at Mizzou.

I know our fans want a quick turnaround but holy shit- it has been six games and Leach has a history of having two year transitions. The lack of patience just blows my mind. Especially when our record is pretty close to being 5-1 if we reduce our turnovers by 75%. We're throwing pick sixes and INT's in the end zone and that is literally the difference in every game except LSU and Alabama. And this is year one with almost all new people.

[maroonmania]

really bro? I'm shocked that anyone can still think this will work. You can't be one-dimensional in this conference. It is painfully obvious.

With our current talent deficit and youth, nothing would work well. Being honest with ourselves, we don't have much SEC talent on the offense right now regardless of system. And no, I don't think Leach will ever put up the video game numbers in the SEC that he did in the Big 12 and Pac 12 but I have not given up hope that he can still have an effective offense with his system in the SEC if he has players suited to the system that have actually been playing in the system for more than 2 months.

[msstate7]

With our current talent deficit and youth, nothing would work well. Being honest with ourselves, we don't have much SEC talent on the offense right now regardless of system. And no, I don't think Leach will ever put up the video game numbers in the SEC that he did in the Big 12 and Pac 12 but I have not given up hope that he can still have an effective offense with his system in the SEC if he has players suited to the system that have actually been playing in the system for more than 2 months.

We had a good run blocking oline, solid dual QB, and the sec leading rusher from 2019, so yeah, I think some coaches could've been effective with those pieces. We went to an all air attack though with no ability to use those pieces

[Todd4State]

With our current talent deficit and youth, nothing would work well. Being honest with ourselves, we don't have much SEC talent on the offense right now regardless of system. And no, I don't think Leach will ever put up the video game numbers in the SEC that he did in the Big 12 and Pac 12 but I have not given up hope that he can still have an effective offense with his system in the SEC if he has players suited to the system that have actually been playing in the system for more than 2 months.

And for the Mississippi doesn't produce his kind of players folks- we have a four star QB and two four star out of state wide receivers committed.

[Todd4State]

We had a good run blocking oline, solid dual QB, and the sec leading rusher from 2019, so yeah, I think some coaches could've been effective with those pieces. We went to an all air attack though with no ability to use those pieces

We are starting a freshman and two sophomores on the o-line no matter what the scheme. And one of our seniors has been terrible for most of his career including this year at tackle. Hill is a head case.

[maroonmania]

We had a good run blocking oline, solid dual QB, and the sec leading rusher from 2019, so yeah, I think some coaches could've been effective with those pieces. We went to an all air attack though with no ability to use those pieces

I disagree. We supposedly had most all of those ingredients the past 2 years under JoMo and still sucked on offense with Fitz and with Stevens/Shrader. And, RIGHT NOW, we don't have the 2019 SEC leading rusher available and I'm not sure he would have stayed under any coach that demanded discipline. So I feel pretty confident that nothing would be working WELL at the moment, though I agree that if we hadn't gone to a totally foreign system to our players it likely would not be the total train wreck we have now. But, it was stated by many people who know Leach's history, that it takes 2 or 3 seasons for him to get up to full speed with his system at a new school. And we might take longer because we have NEVER been an effective passing school. But it would have at least helped had we gotten a Spring Practice.

[msstate7]

A team with no offensive weapons scored 44 and set a school record for passing yards in week 1. Funny how we have the weapons we need when facing man to man

[msu15]

A team with no offensive weapons scored 44 and set a school record for passing yards in week 1. Funny how we have the weapons we need when facing man to man

So you're saying that going 4 vs 8 beyond the line of scrimmage every snap isn't a recipe for success?

[Maroonthirteen]

Of those three guys, Moorehead was the best candidate. On paper, The Moorehead hire was the same as the Mullen hire. A successful OC from a successful P5 school.

Where Cohen is at fault is firing Moorehead after signing day. Most of the good candidates had already taken jobs. So no wonder his only two candidates were leach and a guy with no experience.

Once Cohen decided to keep Moorhead after the egg bowl, He should stayed committed to the decision. I realize the whole bowl
Prep and bowl game was an absolute shit show. But you have the whole
Off season to have a come to Jesus with Moorehead about discipline and conditioning etc.

But that's over and done. Maybe with the way Cohen had a quick trigger on Moorhead, Cohen shows Leach the door if this offense continues to be an absolute cluster f.

[Cooterpoot]

If you've got a good coach, you shouldn't have to go hit rock bottom to get better. You should see some progress. I can handle losing when I see progress. We never saw it with Moorhead and we haven't with Leach. But Leach is here for a few years, so I'm going to bitch about obvious stuff, but hope it gets better. We need it to get better. Next year will be bad though. FR aren't going to change it. Good thing is, all eyes are one Cohen now. He's toast if Leach fails.

[Cooterpoot]

Of those three guys, Moorehead was the best candidate. On paper, The Moorehead hire was the same as the Mullen hire. A successful OC from a successful P5 school.

Where Cohen is at fault is firing Moorehead after signing day. Most of the good candidates had already taken jobs. So no wonder his only two candidates were leach and a guy with no experience.

Once Cohen decided to keep Moorhead after the egg bowl, He should stayed committed to the decision. I realize the whole bowl
Prep and bowl game was an absolute shit show. But you have the whole
Off season to have a come to Jesus with Moorehead about discipline and conditioning etc.

But that's over and done. Maybe with the way Cohen had a quick trigger on Moorhead, Cohen shows Leach the door if this offense continues to be an absolute cluster f.

Moorhead was demoted as OC and was about to be fired at another stop when he left. He was nothing like Mullen. Cohen failed to do his research.

[R2Dawg]

The fact of Judge not being married to an offensive or defensive scheme won me over. I'm so tired of it

Yep, that is my biggest beef with Moorhead and Leach. My scheme and lose that is what is important. If you try something new and lose, fine but just doing the same thing, over and over is insanity.