The wheels are falling off....

[StarkVegasSteve]

The culture problem is more that when things go south and get tough, people quit. Everybody can be positive and go hard when things are going well. Struggles reveal character. I'm not sure anyone is blaming the offense's struggles solely on culture. That'd be foolish.

The offense, culture aside, sucks bc we don't have the personnel to run the air raid (or any offense really). We have a true freshman qb who may or may not be good in time, two true freshmen rb who don't make people miss or break tackles, average (at best) receivers, and slow footed OL who can't pass block without help.

The real question is whether it is possible to get the types of players here needed to execute this system efficiently enough to go 7-5,8-4. Maybe leach can do it, but he ain't got it now regardless of culture.

I think Marks and Johnson will be good. It's kind of hard to make people miss when we won't let them get to the corner and get going. Marks has the ability to have some playmaker type runs if he could ever get into open field. It's hard to get in open field when they're the checkdown option on passes and we're running draws in the run game with a line that can't block.

[dawgday166]

The culture problem is more that when things go south and get tough, people quit. Everybody can be positive and go hard when things are going well. Struggles reveal character. I'm not sure anyone is blaming the offense's struggles solely on culture. That'd be foolish.

The offense, culture aside, sucks bc we don't have the personnel to run the air raid (or any offense really). We have a true freshman qb who may or may not be good in time, two true freshmen rb who don't make people miss or break tackles, average (at best) receivers, and slow footed OL who can't pass block without help.

The real question is whether it is possible to get the types of players here needed to execute this system efficiently enough to go 7-5,8-4. Maybe leach can do it, but he ain't got it now regardless of culture.

Yep. About as bare an offensive cupboard as I've ever seen on almost any SEC team.

[DeltaChicagoDog]

Story I was told is that Errol & Murphy were loafing at practice & Arnett tore them a new one while calling them a few names. Murphy quit & Malik Heath called at Errol & put him in his place. Errol quit as well but came back

Not equating the two and dang sure didn't sniff college ball, but what you described, that's what we called practice, minus people quitting. But we were kids and most of us weren't raised or encouraged to have a voice when the adults talked. But if you're 22 or whatever and have a kid, I can see being less inclined to take sh*t off someone.

Still...Like HST said, "if you buy the ticket, take the ride." Quit when the season's over.

One thing is for sure, the guys who stick around will know who they can depend on when the chips are down and will believe in the colors they wear. A lot of these players have options and, if nothing else CML owes it to them (and fans who make $5m a year possible) to put a product on the field that will make the experience worth it. Expecting three full years or whatever to accomplish this...in 2020 SEC...looks like we'll find out the hard way if that's a grandiose/entitled expectation. It would help a lot if we looked competent in the meantime.

[msstate7]

Yep. About as bare an offensive cupboard as I've ever seen on almost any SEC team.

And yet, 632 yards and 44 points vs in game 1 before Arkansas handed out the book.

[Matt3467]

And yet, 632 yards and 44 points vs in game 1 before Arkansas handed out the book.

The worst thing State did this year was beat LSU.

[HancockCountyDog]

The worst thing State did this year was beat LSU.

People would rather we lose games than admit that Leach's system may have pretty big problem.

Its bizarre.

[Dawgfan77]

That was actually the most factual part from what I heard

Bro you need to sit this one out...

We have so many things going on right now. Just to name two. We have a coach that's stuck in the 90s way of thinking and discipline who would rather be at his home in the keys than recruit, hold camps or act like he gives a shit about players. So much more I could say about this
Two we have a micromanager as an AD who is also pushing a narrative right now and dividing the Ath dept as a whole.
Your story isn't true

[trojandawg]

All this Moorhead 'culture" excuse is just that - an excuse. A bogus one at that.

When the season started and we kicked the shit out of LSU - i didn't hear one person spouting this culture BS. It was the opposite, people praised the Leach Beach and how the team was so happy, focused and finally disciplined. Now that teams have watched Washington film, all of a sudden its culture, drugs, and laziness. So let me get this right, our team had a bad culture, were taking drugs and were lazy, yet worked hard enough during the summer to go into Baton Rouge in the first weekend of the year and kicked the shit out of the reigning National Champs - and then decided to stop trying because that is the culture Moorhead fostered? How does that make any sense?

That is the story we are telling?

As opposed to the story that the kids clearly worked hard enough to be ready to play in their first game, they played hard and ran into a DC that decided to blitz the air raid. After that, every team we have played has incorporated some version of the 3-8 and the offense has looked like dog shit. The defense has played as well or if not better than they did in the LSU game. So its just the offense that is infected with terrible, lazy, drug addicts?

I guess its a whole lot easier to call a bunch of kids that have worked their ass off for multiple years, won plenty of games for us, lazy drug addicts without any real proof, but all you are doing is making excuses for a guy being paid 5 million dollars a year to win games. That's it - that is all you are doing and I think a lot of our fans need to look in the mirror and realize what they are saying and posting because its pretty damn disgusting.

agree with this. that first game we didn't have those issues. the issues started after they figured us out and everyone started getting frustrated and then leach takes it out on the boys for getting frustrated and voicing their opinions. the problem here is that the SEC figured Leach out real fast had success and Leach hasn't adapted the offense in any form to help his team be successful. players get naturally frustrated with that. They voice their opinions which they shouldn't since they are the players. we can do that as fans. but leach is already telling some of us off for criticizing him. That worked out great for the last guy right? i don't think he should be fired yet because he has a track record, but every school and conference is different and there are a lot of variables.

[R2Dawg]

And yet, 632 yards and 44 points vs in game 1 before Arkansas handed out the book.

Yep, people seem to forget this. Our no talent team was able to set SEC record. It can't be that bad.

Back to Errol, he has a lazy streak in him. He has gotten slower and heavier since he got here. This is why he will not make it at the next level. Really disappointing, he was a monster his freshman year.


Yep as others have said, this ain't just a Joe problem, Leach has his issues too. Yeah I know he gets a pass with all the excuses being offered up, but he has some major issues too. Both are true of our team - players, present and past coaches.

[R2Dawg]

He will get skull drug in his first two egg bowls. That will probably be the end of the experiment.

Yep and we'll be told in Starkville to kick rocks and pound sand or worse at the press conference.

[dawgday166]

And yet, 632 yards and 44 points vs in game 1 before Arkansas handed out the book.

We caught LSU cold coming off their Natty, they suck, they played man D, but they still got pressure quite a bit. I knew then our Oline might struggle against some teams this year. Our center was really struggling some that day a good bit.

Reads for 8 man zone for QB & WRs to be on same page are much more intricate than man. Need lots of practice. I'm just suggesting to hang tough and give it some time before we try to change Leach or what he's doing. This ain't his 1st rodeo.

As for leadership, he must have something going for him for all the coaches to follow him around and wanna coach for him. Spurrier Jr at a minimum could probably work anywhere in country he wants to.

[Cooterpoot]

People would rather we lose games than admit that Leach's system may have pretty big problem.

Its bizarre.

May have a problem and does have a problem are two different things. We'll find out next year and the year after.

[R2Dawg]

Let's see- Moorhead comes to us as an offensive guru at Penn State, struggles here and now his offense is good again at Oregon.

Leach is an offensive guru who did well at Wazzu and struggles here in year one.

Maybe it's not them.**

Maybe but lots of holes in your logic.

We were not terrible on O the past however many years until Joe and Leach so maybe it is them. We have never been this bad on O so is it MSU or coach?

Neither of those coaches have been HC in SEC either so that has some merit as well.

[R2Dawg]

and last time I checked he was still getting 5M year to try and win football games, meaning putting his players in the best position to win now not three years from now

Nailed it. If it takes that long then we are basically paying 15 mil a year to win 7 games in year 3. What a deal.

[FISHDAWG]

agree with this. that first game we didn't have those issues. the issues started after they figured us out and everyone started getting frustrated and then leach takes it out on the boys for getting frustrated and voicing their opinions. the problem here is that the SEC figured Leach out real fast had success and Leach hasn't adapted the offense in any form to help his team be successful. players get naturally frustrated with that. They voice their opinions which they shouldn't since they are the players. we can do that as fans. but leach is already telling some of us off for criticizing him. That worked out great for the last guy right? i don't think he should be fired yet because he has a track record, but every school and conference is different and there are a lot of variables.

I'm of the same opinion ... I think that the players saw how Leach was going to operate early on and we lost two defensive starters before the season even began (who blamed it on a stupid tweet that wasn't bad at all) ... I think we lost the true malcontents before the LSU game and we were all supportive of Leach at the time .... now I think this has morphed into a different kind of discontentment - one of frustration- by the players and fans as well. It's borne from frustration as they are taking 100% of the blame with little or no apparent blame going to their #1 leader the HC himself. If Leach doesn't adapt to SEC defenses he at least better adapt to SEC player ego somewhat - I'm not saying give them the keys to the car but he could soften somewhat .... I think this frustration is what got K Hill and some others ..... You just can't label this many as malcontent - there has to be a reason not named JoMo
I think Mullen understood this and this might be why he wore those stupid ass shoes sometimes ... point remains that after leaving the house / parents for the first time in their young lives the next logical place to look for leadership-insight-advice- or whatever - would naturally be their head coach and they seem to be running into a marine drill sergeant ...... and for all you hard asses about to wail away at me - this isn't boot camp

[Matt3467]

People would rather we lose games than admit that Leach's system may have pretty big problem.

Its bizarre.

You, 7, 77, 28, Hoops, 34, and others are rabid anti leachers and have been for as long as I can remember. I'm sure you guys literally salivate at having more excuses by the day to throw the man with a proven track record under the bus. Ignore the fact he didn't have a spring, summer, and limited fall to install his offense; which btw is plenty different than first year coaches at other schools because his offense is drastically different and akin to bringing the triple option in without a practice. The obvious issues this team has had with players that want to be babied and allowed to run the show has been a huge problem. Anyone with a brain and any sympathy shouldn't want to fire a man 4 games into the season with the record Leach has under the circumstances he's given. I don't care if his salary is 5mil or 25mil no one knew the degree of difficulty this year and season would present. Leach will win here if given time to adequately install his system and bring in his players.

[R2Dawg]

I'm of the same opinion ... I think that the players saw how Leach was going to operate early on and we lost two defensive starters before the season even began (who blamed it on a stupid tweet that wasn't bad at all) ... I think we lost the true malcontents before the LSU game and we were all supportive of Leach at the time .... now I think this has morphed into a different kind of discontentment - one of frustration- by the players and fans as well. It's borne from frustration as they are taking 100% of the blame with little or no apparent blame going to their #1 leader the HC himself. If Leach doesn't adapt to SEC defenses he at least better adapt to SEC player ego somewhat - I'm not saying give them the keys to the car but he could soften somewhat .... I think this frustration is what got K Hill and some others ..... You just can't label this many as malcontent - there has to be a reason not named JoMo
I think Mullen understood this and this might be why he wore those stupid ass shoes sometimes ... point remains that after leaving the house / parents for the first time in their young lives the next logical place to look for leadership-insight-advice- or whatever - would naturally be their head coach and they seem to be running into a marine drill sergeant ...... and for all you hard asses about to wail away at me - this isn't boot camp

Yep, agree. The leader can hand out the tough talk but we the leader doesn't accept his own part of it, you have no credibility and you lose the organization or locker room. That is where we are, a real bad place to be because some change must happen at top with a different approach and attitude as well. Not saying fire him now, but he must show some adaptation. Adjust or go home - on both sides.

[msstate7]

We caught LSU cold coming off their Natty, they suck, they played man D, but they still got pressure quite a bit. I knew then our Oline might struggle against some teams this year. Our center was really struggling some that day a good bit.

Reads for 8 man zone for QB & WRs to be on same page are much more intricate than man. Need lots of practice. I'm just suggesting to hang tough and give it some time before we try to change Leach or what he's doing. This ain't his 1st rodeo.

As for leadership, he must have something going for him for all the coaches to follow him around and wanna coach for him. Spurrier Jr at a minimum could probably work anywhere in country he wants to.

We have no choice but to stick it out. I do think constantly attacking a 8 man zone defense with 5 receivers is gonna be tough though. If we can't run a team out of that, I think we will struggle to sustain drives

[Coach34]

All this Moorhead 'culture" excuse is just that - an excuse. A bogus one at that.

When the season started and we kicked the shit out of LSU - i didn't hear one person spouting this culture BS. It was the opposite, people praised the Leach Beach and how the team was so happy, focused and finally disciplined. Now that teams have watched Washington film, all of a sudden its culture, drugs, and laziness. So let me get this right, our team had a bad culture, were taking drugs and were lazy, yet worked hard enough during the summer to go into Baton Rouge in the first weekend of the year and kicked the shit out of the reigning National Champs - and then decided to stop trying because that is the culture Moorhead fostered? How does that make any sense?

That is the story we are telling?

As opposed to the story that the kids clearly worked hard enough to be ready to play in their first game, they played hard and ran into a DC that decided to blitz the air raid. After that, every team we have played has incorporated some version of the 3-8 and the offense has looked like dog shit. The defense has played as well or if not better than they did in the LSU game. So its just the offense that is infected with terrible, lazy, drug addicts?

I guess its a whole lot easier to call a bunch of kids that have worked their ass off for multiple years, won plenty of games for us, lazy drug addicts without any real proof, but all you are doing is making excuses for a guy being paid 5 million dollars a year to win games. That's it - that is all you are doing and I think a lot of our fans need to look in the mirror and realize what they are saying and posting because its pretty damn disgusting.

This is the best post in the entire thread. All that needs to be said

[confucius say]

I think Marks and Johnson will be good. It's kind of hard to make people miss when we won't let them get to the corner and get going. Marks has the ability to have some playmaker type runs if he could ever get into open field. It's hard to get in open field when they're the checkdown option on passes and we're running draws in the run game with a line that can't block.

Oh I agree they will both be good.

[msstate7]

Articles like this concern me...

https://cbssportsradio.radio.com/articles/brian-jones-mike-leach-wont-work-in-the-se

Jimmy lake saying he never had to make an adjustment to stop leach bc leach wouldn't adjust worries me.

[confucius say]

This is the best post in the entire thread. All that needs to be said

Says the person who more than anyone railed on joe's culture and the smoke from weed billowing through the halls of the hotel the night before TN last year.

Again, leach sucking and inheriting a huge culture problem are both things that can be true.

[dawgday166]

We have no choice but to stick it out. I do think constantly attacking a 8 man zone defense with 5 receivers is gonna be tough though. If we can't run a team out of that, I think we will struggle to sustain drives

You might be right. My point is tho that I don't think we can really tell for sure one way or the other right now. Too much flux in program with weeding out and whatnot, plus youth/experience/lack of talent on offensive side of ball. I get frustrated too. I just prefer settling out the base concepts with the team and getting them good at what Leach does 1st, then adjusting from there.

I don't think we've got the team really familiar enough and experienced enough with what Leach does yet. A true Fr QB has to come to LOS and make an audible (quite a bit in Leach's offense) into the right play call for what he's seeing. And the WRs have to be on same page with him.

No one else's offense runs quite like that (except maybe LSU last year and Clemson quite often). Saban always has a game manager has he not. Saban has philosophy (still) to control what offense does pretty tightly. New coaches in SEC are also like that. Kirby is like that too. Leach's QBs are more than game managers. At some point tho he may have to adjust down the road.

As far as coaches raising hell with players, I imagine Saban still does it as bad as Arnett did the other day cause Saban is about as bad as it gets from that standpoint. He may have toned it down a little, but I figure he can still go on some pretty good tirades.

[bluelightstar]

Yep, agree. The leader can hand out the tough talk but we the leader doesn't accept his own part of it, you have no credibility and you lose the organization or locker room. That is where we are, a real bad place to be because some change must happen at top with a different approach and attitude as well. Not saying fire him now, but he must show some adaptation. Adjust or go home - on both sides.

Yes -- and when the "leader" demands accountability, but doesn't even work as hard/as many hours as Moorhead and Mullen, of course the players who saw those coaches will become "malcontents" when the offense doesn't work.

[dawgday166]

Articles like this concern me...

https://cbssportsradio.radio.com/articles/brian-jones-mike-leach-wont-work-in-the-se

Jimmy lake saying he never had to make an adjustment to stop leach bc leach wouldn't adjust worries me.

There are "anonymous" coaches in SEC said same thing about Mullen too. One probably was Kirby. What just happened there? Took a damn good while tho.

[dawgday166]

Says the person who more than anyone railed on joe's culture and the smoke from weed billowing through the halls of the hotel the night before TN last year.

Again, leach sucking and inheriting a huge culture problem are both things that can be true.

I tend to agree with C34 a good bit on football. Not so much this time around.

However, when he goes to a school and has a bad year it do seem to be talent related for some reason. When they're doing really well, it do tend to be offensive design/brilliance related. *****

Watch the blowback on this post *******

[msstate7]

There are "anonymous" coaches in SEC said same thing about Mullen too. One probably was Kirby. What just happened there? Took a damn good while tho.

Jimmy lake wasn't anonymous though. He flat out said it

[Cooterpoot]

Not a damn soul on this board knows how this will go the next couple years. You can have a opinion (guess what, we all question if it'll pan out) but you don't know. And by the way, we've lost at least 4 defensive players, so this isn't limited to offense. We're going to lose more on both sides. Next year won't see all the transfers but it'll be a struggle. Year three should see a jump (should). Does anyone like what John Cohen did here? Basically hitting the restart button? Hell no! But bitching about it everyday won't change a damn thing. The program has lacked direction since 2015.
I don't expect to win another game this year. That's a damn shame! We had better talent than a two win team- If we were in a similar scheme as Mullen's. But, the restart was hit, so here we are.
17 you John Cohen! 17 you! Even if it works out, we have to wait three damn years minimum, That's a shitty decision by a shitty AD.

[Matt3467]

The LSU game was smoke and mirrors. No one should be using that as a measuring stick of success. We all knew LSU wouldn't be the juggernaut they were a year ago but no one knew they'd be garbage and 2-3.

[msstate7]

The LSU game was smoke and mirrors. No one should be using that as a measuring stick of success. We all knew LSU wouldn't be the juggernaut they were a year ago but no one knew they'd be garbage and 2-3.

How bout vandy? We had 204 total yards vs them. Are they more talented than us? We haven't broke 300 yards of offense in a month. We haven't avg 4 yds/play in a month. In Moorhead's 26 games, he avg'd less than 4 yds/play in 2 games (Kentucky and Florida in 2018). Leach has done it 4 straight games

ETA... here's the 4 teams that have held us under 4 yds/play and their avg allowed per play:

Kentucky 5.04
aTm 5.56
Bama 5.41
Vandy 7.03

No one else avg'd less than 6.7 per play vs vandy

[FISHDAWG]

The LSU game was smoke and mirrors. No one should be using that as a measuring stick of success. We all knew LSU wouldn't be the juggernaut they were a year ago but no one knew they'd be garbage and 2-3.

I don't care who they lost ... they have out recruited us for decades - they may have a bad record this year but they do have better talent than us as always .... we just had a better game plan than they did which is incredibly surprising

[Matt3467]

How bout vandy? We had 204 total yards vs them. Are they more talented than us? We haven't broke 300 yards of offense in a month. We haven't avg 4 yds/play in a month. In Moorhead's 26 games, he avg'd less than 4 yds/play in 2 games (Kentucky and Florida in 2018). Leach has done it 4 straight games

I'll agree that our offensive production is trash. Heck it's downright boring to watch! Where we and most others on your side differ is that I believe that Leach does turn it around.

[HoopsDawg]

The LSU game was smoke and mirrors. No one should be using that as a measuring stick of success. We all knew LSU wouldn't be the juggernaut they were a year ago but no one knew they'd be garbage and 2-3.

Wasn't really smoke and mirrors. This offense is good against a man to man, blitzing team. We won't see that defense again until Leach is fired.

[HancockCountyDog]

I'll agree that our offensive production is trash. Heck it's downright boring to watch! Where we and most others on your side differ is that I believe that Leach does turn it around.

Here is what you are missing - I hope he turns it around as well. As far as believing he will, I'm not sure I believe that just yet, i want to believe but so far he has shown me very little. The 3-8 is a problem. It was a problem when we hired him and now that teams are using it against us, it is still a problem, but that is irrelevant to the point most of us are trying to make.

I want us to stop making up excuses for Leach. He is failing because his offense is failing. That's it. Now - you can blame bad fits with personnel - well that is on him. He is being paid to adjust. Same way Mullen took Relf and said I'm about to run this tough SOB about 25-30 times a game as opposed to trying to make him Chris Leak. Now - the problem with the argument that we don't have the personnel to be successful is that we actually were successful with this personnel against an SEC team - on the road. The only difference in that game and the other games we have played this season is one team blitzed and played man defense, the other teams have been playing a ton of 3-8. That is it. Hard to argue that LSU is less talented than Vandy, Arkansas and Kentucky on defense.

If you want to blame personnel - you have a hard time for explaining away the LSU game. In fact - its impossible. The difference is scheme, and that is not the players - its the coaches. That is what most of us that are critical of Leach understand - we do have players that can be competitive and score against SEC teams - we just have to adjust to a different defensive scheme that we are seeing and so far, we have not adjusted.

Instead of posters blaming the coaches, we have people on here claiming that our team is a bunch of lazy, spoiled, drug addicts. I think it is awful and pretty lazy by the posters. A lot of these kids have won multiple egg bowls, SEC games and done it the right way for a while. Now all of a sudden "they" are the problem.

Attitude reflects leadership. If our team has a poor attitude, there is a guy getting paid 5 million dollars who's job it is to lead this team.

[confucius say]

How bout vandy? We had 204 total yards vs them. Are they more talented than us? We haven't broke 300 yards of offense in a month. We haven't avg 4 yds/play in a month. In Moorhead's 26 games, he avg'd less than 4 yds/play in 2 games (Kentucky and Florida in 2018). Leach has done it 4 straight games

ETA... here's the 4 teams that have held us under 4 yds/play and their avg allowed per play:

Kentucky 5.04
aTm 5.56
Bama 5.41
Vandy 7.03

No one else avg'd less than 6.7 per play vs vandy

I think vandy kinda proves the point that it's not scheme and not sec defenses.

I mean, leach has dominated sucky defenses like vandy and ky (for 20 years with average offensive talent.

[confucius say]

Wasn't really smoke and mirrors. This offense is good against a man to man, blitzing team. We won't see that defense again until Leach is fired.

Bama played a lot of man and blitzed

[Percho]

Next year is a terrible schedule with Arky, Aub, and A&M on the road. At Auburn is a loss no matter what. Arkansas is likely a loss as is A&M....as well as LSU and Bama and possibly NC State.

You need to find another team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE&ab_channel=BadWolf

[defiantdog]

Can't everyone just admit that Leach is being continuously out coached in every game.

[Percho]

Amazing how many people don't get that coaches are to take what they have today and make the most of it. Last I checked we are still selling game tickets for this year and plan to next year. You don't get two exhibition years before it counts. When or lose, you are to be judged as a coach by how your unit performs based on what you were given to work with. Running so many players off that you can't field a team Is cost-prohibitive to the goal of winning.

Please post how, "he," is running them off?

What is, "he<" doing to make them want to leave?

What are the coaches and players doing at practice? What is the problem?

Please elaborate!

[Percho]

"The this won't work mantra is so overplayed by some of our fans. Get better players in and I guarantee you that any offense will work better- even in the SEC.


Even the great Dan Mullen lost some guys."
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __
Couple things Todd, I have seen many football seasons at Msu, seen many Coaches come and go, But I can tell you I hope in at least your Lifetime, "we" will see another Coach as good as Dan MUllen was for Msu. Regardless of anyone's take including mine, history says DM was the best or at least one of the very best we have ever had. 9 years is a lifetime now days for any Coach to stay at one place, money and pressure plus being in the Sec which fans are way more impatient than most places in the country with football.

Also, I hope Leach is "regrouping", yes it takes players but his play calling needs to be "retooled", time will tell in the next few years. Hard to catch up to the say top tier schools in the Sec.

Not sure finishing this year will help Leach or the fan base, it's one of my most disappointing seasons ever, mainly from all the post about how great Leach will be before the season. What a terrible adjustments regardless of the players on offense, no imagination, big surprise for me.

I believe Mullen is a very good coach. Nine years. Five of those nine years he was trying to leave after the Bama game and even though we won some of those games it was crap every year after the Bama game. And we looked like crap in some of those games. He would have been a great coach here if he had wanted to be here IMHO,

[HoopsDawg]

Bama played a lot of man and blitzed

no they didn't. saban even said in the postgame that he changed his philosphy against us and put in a different D against Leach in the preseason based on what Washington ran.

[HoopsDawg]

Can't everyone just admit that Leach is being continuously out coached in every game.

It's unreal. They can't admit it. There's no point arguing with people on the internet. I don't know why I do.

[Percho]

On the average, what % of the time should 5 SEC OL be able to block 3 SEC DL?


If a team is running 3- 8 and you have a QB like say, Fran Tarkenton who wants to throw the ball not run it, the QB should be able to have almost all the time in the world for receivers to get open, all over the place against 8 defenders.

Block 3 hold the ball and hit open receivers long, medium and short.

It is in the QB's mind and hand, to beat the 3-8, if 5 can block 3, 85% of te time.

[msstate7]

On the average, what % of the time should 5 SEC OL be able to block 3 SEC DL?


If a team is running 3- 8 and you have a QB like say, Fran Tarkenton who wants to throw the ball not run it, the QB should be able to have almost all the time in the world for receivers to get open, all over the place against 8 defenders.

Block 3 hold the ball and hit open receivers long, medium and short.

It is in the QB's mind and hand, to beat the 3-8, if 5 can block 3, 85% of te time.

But when the DEs split out really wide, it's really 1v1, 1v1, and 1vs3, right?

[KOdawg1]

But when the DEs split out really wide, it's really 1v1, 1v1, and 1vs3, right?

Yep. We negate our 5 v. 3 advantage with the wide splits.

[confucius say]

But when the DEs split out really wide, it's really 1v1, 1v1, and 1vs3, right?

No. Not if you have guards who can move their feet, head on a swivel, and are smart (I'm not saying our guards aren't smart, but they are slow and not alert; they are lost). Plus, cross is usually fine on an island even against a 9 tech.

[confucius say]

no they didn't. saban even said in the postgame that he changed his philosphy against us and put in a different D against Leach in the preseason based on what Washington ran.

Go watch the film. They did pattern match on third down some like Saban always does, but they played a lot of man. Remember that 21 yard run by marks? That was against man.

[msstate7]

No. Not if you have guards who can move their feet, head on a swivel, and are smart (I'm not saying our guards aren't smart, but they are slow and not alert; they are lost).

If you have a guard that moves that far to help, you'll see a lb blitz the next play

[HoopsDawg]

Go watch the film. They did pattern match on third down some like Saban always does, but they played a lot of man. Remember that 21 yard run by marks? That was against man.

If you think Bama ran anything similar against us that LSU did, I can't help you.

[bulldawg28]

If you have a guard that moves that far to help, you'll see a lb blitz the next play

Yep

[Coach34]

If you think Bama ran anything similar against us that LSU did, I can't help you.

Yeah- this is just ridiculous. Bama moved the D around and brought people from different places- but they backed up and covered for 3/4 of the game.

[Coach34]

I tend to agree with C34 a good bit on football. Not so much this time around.

However, when he goes to a school and has a bad year it do seem to be talent related for some reason. When they're doing really well, it do tend to be offensive design/brilliance related. *****

Watch the blowback on this post *******

Ive been back in coaching 5 years now. My last 3 offenses have set school records in various categories. I'm good. Thanks for your concern

[Coach34]

Wasn't really smoke and mirrors. This offense is good against a man to man, blitzing team. We won't see that defense again until Leach is fired.

This

[confucius say]

If you have a guard that moves that far to help, you'll see a lb blitz the next play

Do you think the guard is supposed to go outside the tackle to help? You're not asking him to move far to help, maybe 4-5 feet.
A guard with good feet can help against a wide DE who is forced back inside, chooses to come back inside, or who comes back inside on a twist. Not asking him to vacate his spot to go help a tackle block a wide DE 10 yards away.

When watching our OL, we have guys there they are just not able.

[confucius say]

If you think Bama ran anything similar against us that LSU did, I can't help you.

Who said anything about LSU? The 3-8 comparison is to ark, who played almost zero man. If you think Bama played 3-8 every play with cloud coverage or quarters the way ark did, I can't help you.

[Cooterpoot]

Arkansas and that 3-8 handled that great OM offense to the tune of 6 picks. KY should've beaten OM. Would have if not for missed kick. There's a lot of shitty ball in the SEC. Lotta weird shit too.

[Coach34]

Who said anything about LSU? The 3-8 comparison is to ark, who played almost zero man. If you think Bama played 3-8 every play with cloud coverage or quarters the way ark did, I can't help you.

No- but Bama backed up and covered with 7 while rushing 4 a whole lot. They confused us by rotating their front and rushing from different sides. They blitzed a few times- but they mostly just rushed from different sides and dropped different people to confuse us

[confucius say]

No- but Bama backed up and covered with 7 while rushing 4 a whole lot. They confused us by rotating their front and rushing from different sides. They blitzed a few times- but they mostly just rushed from different sides and dropped different people to confuse us

Yep. They also played a lot more man than ark.

This idea that the only thing stopping this offense is the 3-8 is a farce. Vandy is another example. They tried 3-8 early and we went up 14-0. They started bringing more pressure and we looked lost.

The only time we've looked worth a crap is when LSU had only 4 scholly corners chasing verticals all day in bump and run and could barely move by the third quarter. They blanked us the first quarter I believe.

[Coach34]

Yep. They also played a lot more man than ark.

This idea that the only thing stopping this offense is the 3-8 is a farce. Vandy is another example. They tried 3-8 early and we went up 14-0. They started bringing more pressure and we looked lost.

The only time we've looked worth a crap is when LSU had only 4 scholly corners chasing verticals all day in bump and run and could barely move by the third quarter. They blanked us the first quarter I believe.

But the common theme is that SEC teams are dropping 7-8 guys with no problem in stopping us. Until we can run the ball- the Air Raid will not work in the SEC. Thats the bottom line

[confucius say]

But the common theme is that SEC teams are dropping 7-8 guys with no problem in stopping us. Until we can run the ball- the Air Raid will not work in the SEC. Thats the bottom line

I've said that since day 1. That's the most disappointing thing to me. Adding the toss was a start. Need to add 2 more concepts

[Cowbell]

Says the person who more than anyone railed on joe's culture and the smoke from weed billowing through the halls of the hotel the night before TN last year.

Again, leach sucking and inheriting a huge culture problem are both things that can be true.

You can't fix a culture issue with a sucking head coach though...

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I've said that since day 1. That's the most disappointing thing to me. Adding the toss was a start. Need to add 2 more concepts

Concept 1) needs to be "OL blocks" because as long as the OL is the worst I've ever seen in Maroon, I doubt anything works. 2) imo should be a zone read. Allow the OT to pull for an extra blocker and eliminate the DE from the box numbers. It's easy to teach and understand. 3) should be an RPO right over top of the LBs. If they stay back give the handoff for 5. If they charge up pull it and hit the slot man running straight to the empty zone. If the Safeties begin to crash down play action them deep.

LB's in a 7-8 man zone pull double duty. RPO would break the 3-8. Maybe some 7 man drop half man cover 3 type thing would be the counter DCs make, BUT we'd be closer to being effective than we are now.

[Cowbell]

No- but Bama backed up and covered with 7 while rushing 4 a whole lot. They confused us by rotating their front and rushing from different sides. They blitzed a few times- but they mostly just rushed from different sides and dropped different people to confuse us

This. Any fan that thinks our offensive line talent is the problem, they don't know what they are watching. DCs are playing chess while Leach is playing checkers. Our guys don't know who to block when. That's coaching.

[KOdawg1]

This. Any fan that thinks our offensive line talent is the problem, they don't know what they are watching. DCs are playing chess while Leach is playing checkers. Our guys don't know who to block when. That's coaching.

I haven't been impressed with Mason Miller. Both his unit on the field and his recruiting. I don't think some of our assistants are SEC caliber assts

[FISHDAWG]

No. Not if you have guards who can move their feet, head on a swivel, and are smart (I'm not saying our guards aren't smart, but they are slow and not alert; they are lost). Plus, cross is usually fine on an island even against a 9 tech.

Guards also have a zone to protect even if there's no D-lineman in front of them in case of delayed LB blitz ... If we had a back in the backfield to block the potential LB / DT blitz then yes the guard can swing around and pick up the DE's rush .... people keep saying this OL is garbage but I think the talent there isn't as bad as some claim ... it's not as simple as the 5 blocking 3 thing - many times the OL are just being responsible for their zone. What makes it hard on the OL is the defense knows what's coming and pin their ears back and come hard - most of the times on a DL stunt because they know their back up protection will pick up any missed tackles

[Cowbell]

I haven't been impressed with Mason Miller. Both his unit on the field and his recruiting. I don't think some of our assistants are SEC caliber assts

Yeah there's a disconnect somewhere in here. This oline was much better last year. Under bad coaching then.

[dawgday166]

This. Any fan that thinks our offensive line talent is the problem, they don't know what they are watching. DCs are playing chess while Leach is playing checkers. Our guys don't know who to block when. That's coaching.

It's youth and inexperience. Go back and watch Mullen's 2016 team. 2017 they were pretty darn good.

[Cowbell]

It's youth and inexperience. Go back and watch Mullen's 2016 team. 2017 they were pretty darn good.

2016 oline was less talented and much better than this one

[HoopsDawg]

It's youth and inexperience. Go back and watch Mullen's 2016 team. 2017 they were pretty darn good.

Lot easier to block when the Dline can't pin their ears back on every play. Don't most people realize this?

[defiantdog]

Lot easier to block when the Dline can't pin their ears back on every play. Don't most people realize this?
3 DL pin their ears back each play, 2 LBs spy the RB in the backfield and disrupt the mesh routes, and drop 6 DBs in coverage.

We should run the ball every time we see two safeties high. But this OL has been coached to initiate contact and push holes for the RBs in the past. Now they're expected to create a pocket and 1v1 a blitzing DL each play.

It seems so simple to disrupt the defense by throwing in a few run plays where you pull a guard and run off tackle. I'm not saying to change your offensive game plan..... but at least keep the defense ****ing honest.

[parabrave]

Can't everyone just admit that Leach is being continuously out coached in every game.

It ain't that hard! Just like Moorhead wait till 10 seconds then change the defense.

[dawgday166]

2016 oline was less talented and much better than this one

You talking about the Oline that had 4 NFL Olinemen on it? We may have at best 2 on this one and that remains to be seen. And right now they very young.

[yjnkdawg]

But hasn't our fanbase always been that way? I know that people were calling for Jackie to be fired in '95 and '96 so we could hire Bobby Wallace. We had people on here wanting to fire Mullen and bring in Hud during the '13 season.

Now, the flip side of that is that we actually have been incredibly patient from the university side and have given our coaches time - Felker and Croom were both given 5 seasons; only JoMo was cut short (and I will ALWAYS think that was the right move).


JoeMo's coaching tenure here was cut short because of the culture and discipline issues.