Saban "Your begging them to run the ball"

[YoungB]

this link skips directly to relevant 2:38 mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yp4rz5qh0E&feature=youtu.be&t=158


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yp4rz5qh0E&feature=youtu.be&t=158

[BeardoMSU]

Lol. Gotta win a certain way, or we don't win at all. Sounds intelligent, right?

[R2Dawg]

Lol. Gotta win a certain way, or we don't win at all. Sounds intelligent, right?

That appears to be what we have. Is it incompetence or arrogance?

[HoopsDawg]

Changed whole scheme for 1 game. Begging us to run the ball. Daring us to run the ball. For you guys that still think it's our receivers, KJ, Will, or O-linemen and just will not listen to me and others. Maybe you will listen to Saban. Nah, probably not.

[HoopsDawg]

That appears to be what we have. Is it incompetence or arrogance?

combo of arrogance, delusion, stubborness, and incompetence. I feel for all the older players. 2 years thrown a way b/c a guy was determined to run his RPO's and now this. I know this is heresy, but I'm sympathic to Kylin.

[Homedawg]

Changed whole scheme for 1 game. Begging us to run the ball. Daring us to run the ball. For you guys that still think it's our receivers, KJ, Will, or O-linemen and just will not listen to me and others. Maybe you will listen to Saban. Nah, probably not.

No they didn't... you can't change a scheme in a week.... they just changed how they called it. They didn't change the whole scheme. That's just ludicrous

[bluelightstar]

Saban was basically laughing at our offense in the run up to the game so I am not surprised

[HancockCountyDog]

No they didn't... you can't change a scheme in a week.... they just changed how they called it. They didn't change the whole scheme. That's just ludicrous

He clearly said they practiced some of this 3-8 in the fall and all but told us that they studied Washington?s film and the trans before Bama this year.

They clearly prepared for the offense by practicing the 3-8 a little bit in the fall, and then implanted the same defense that the other SEC teams implemented in a week;

It?s not that hard to call 5-6 variations of the 3-8;.

[state66]

We had 15 attempts for an average of 2.5 yards. Would you rather leach force the run and net 2-3 yards per play and then punt?

[The Federalist Engineer]

Lol. Gotta win a certain way, or we don't win at all. Sounds intelligent, right?

A key lack of talent in MSU fans is we don’t create great Memes, it’s a way to revel in the pain of losing while inflicting great pressure on the target. Clemson would have a library of Memes by now.

I am part of the problem in this area

I can only think about the Unfortunate General Mack. The War and Peace characterization. What. A. Dork.

[defiantdog]

He clearly said they practiced some of this 3-8 in the fall and all but told us that they studied Washington?s film and the trans before Bama this year.

They clearly prepared for the offense by practicing the 3-8 a little bit in the fall, and then implanted the same defense that the other SEC teams implemented in a week;

It?s not that hard to call 5-6 variations of the 3-8;.

Saban ran his typical hybrid 3-4..... Where he had zone on the strong side and man to man on the weak side. He rarely dropped 8..... But didnt blitz the LBs too much. When he did..... They always got to the qb one way or the other. But we telegraph our plays mainly because our guys don't understand the system yet. So it's easy for defenses to react. But we do have some players that still don't give maximum effort ..... Ridiculous.

[BeardoMSU]

We had 15 attempts for an average of 2.5 yards. Would you rather leach force the run and net 2-3 yards per play and then punt?

His called run plays aren't very creative...

[Coach34]

Changed whole scheme for 1 game. Begging us to run the ball. Daring us to run the ball. For you guys that still think it's our receivers, KJ, Will, or O-linemen and just will not listen to me and others. Maybe you will listen to Saban. Nah, probably not.

Yeahhhhh. Me and a few others been saying it. Until we run the ball some- this shit aint gonna work in the SEC

[Homedawg]

He clearly said they practiced some of this 3-8 in the fall and all but told us that they studied Washington?s film and the trans before Bama this year.

They clearly prepared for the offense by practicing the 3-8 a little bit in the fall, and then implanted the same defense that the other SEC teams implemented in a week;

It?s not that hard to call 5-6 variations of the 3-8;.

They dropped 8 some. But they didn't play a 3-8 anywhere remotely close to what other teams have done. They played bama defense. Lots of combo coverage. Even some man. While like any decent coach I'm sure they studied what other teams did. But they didn't copy cat them. Not even close.

[Homedawg]

Yeahhhhh. Me and a few others been saying it. Until we run the ball some- this shit aint gonna work in the SEC

I agree we need to be able to run the ball. No doubt. We just can't. Course we can't throw either. So there's that.

[Coach34]

We had 15 attempts for an average of 2.5 yards. Would you rather leach force the run and net 2-3 yards per play and then punt?

He needs to bring some creativity to the run game. Zone and draw doesnt cut it.

[Homedawg]

Saban ran his typical hybrid 3-4..... Where he had zone on the strong side and man to man on the weak side. He rarely dropped 8..... But didnt blitz the LBs too much. When he did..... They always got to the qb one way or the other. But we telegraph our plays mainly because our guys don't understand the system yet. So it's easy for defenses to react. But we do have some players that still don't give maximum effort ..... Ridiculous.

This guy was watching.

[maroonmania]

I agree we need to be able to run the ball. No doubt. We just can't. Course we can't throw either. So there's that.

Yep, we've averaged 1.7 yards/rush this season. If I was an opposing coach I would be begging us to run the ball as well.

[Coach34]

Zone by itself is no good without the QB being a threat to read it, a TE/Thumper to help on the edge or run Split zone, or an RPO attached to it
A draw doesnt really work very often against a team rushing 3

To put it in simple terms- our run game is Jr High/middle school level football.

[bluelightstar]

Zone by itself is no good without the QB being a threat to read it, a TE/Thumper to help on the edge or run Split zone, or an RPO attached to it
A draw doesnt really work very often against a team rushing 3

To put it in simple terms- our run game is Jr High/middle school level football.

Right - it seems like our entire run game is inside zone and draw. We did add a toss play, I guess. But it seems like a very easy to defend offense because the defense does not have to guess much and pays very little price for guessing wrong.

[HoopsDawg]

I agree we need to be able to run the ball. No doubt. We just can't. Course we can't throw either. So there's that.

Ok, Saban was lying then. I'm sure you are right. SMH.

[HoopsDawg]

Zone by itself is no good without the QB being a threat to read it, a TE/Thumper to help on the edge or run Split zone, or an RPO attached to it
A draw doesnt really work very often against a team rushing 3

To put it in simple terms- our run game is Jr High/middle school level football.

That's an insult to middle school football.

[Homedawg]

Ok, Saban was lying then. I'm sure you are right. SMH.

Lying?? Did yo watch it?? He never said they changed there scheme. Not once. But carry on dude.

[HoopsDawg]

Lying?? Did yo watch it?? He never said they changed there scheme. Not once. But carry on dude.

Ok buddy. Stick to baseball.

[Homedawg]

Ok buddy. Stick to baseball.

You find in that video where he said they changed their scheme. They didn't. They changed their philosophy for a game. But scheme no.

[Cowbell]

You find in that video where he said they changed their scheme. They didn't. They changed their philosophy for a game. But scheme no.

I agree with this. Heck they had 4 down a majority of the game.

[BeardoMSU]

Right - it seems like our entire run game is inside zone and draw.

Literally the only 2 run plays we've ran.

[Prediction? Pain.]

We had 15 attempts for an average of 2.5 yards. Would you rather leach force the run and net 2-3 yards per play and then punt?


His called run plays aren't very creative...


He needs to bring some creativity to the run game. Zone and draw doesnt cut it.

I don't disagree with anything any of y'all are saying. But let's remember that running successfully against Bama hasn't been our forte over the past decade. In 2011, we ran it 29 times for 12 yards. In 2012 -- We Believe! -- we ran it 21 times for 47 yards. In 2013, we ran it 29 times for 53 yards. In 2015, we ran in 42 times for 89 yards. In 2016, we ran it 35 times for 94 yards. And in 2018, we ran it 30 times for 44 yards. So averaging 2.5 yards a pop isn't that far from the norm. The difference is that if we have those kinds of rushing stats in any game before, we're effed most years. Now, under Leach, we're supposed to expect to have paltry rushing numbers -- though admittedly not quite this paltry -- overshadowed by massive passing yards. Well, that ain't happening. And it sucks.

[bluelightstar]

I don't disagree with anything any of y'all are saying. But let's remember that running successfully against Bama hasn't been our forte over the past decade. In 2011, we ran it 29 times for 12 yards. In 2012 -- We Believe! -- we ran it 21 times for 47 yards. In 2013, we ran it 29 times for 53 yards. In 2015, we ran in 42 times for 89 yards. In 2016, we ran it 35 times for 94 yards. And in 2018, we ran it 30 times for 44 yards. So averaging 2.5 yards a pop isn't that far from the norm. The difference is that if we have those kinds of rushing stats in any game before, we're effed most years. Now, under Leach, we're supposed to expect to have paltry rushing numbers -- though admittedly not quite this paltry -- overshadowed by massive passing yards. Well, that ain't happening. And it sucks.

Well, they were playing the run in those days. It’s ridiculous to have comparable rushing stats to those years when we were running into a light box

[FISHDAWG]

We had 15 attempts for an average of 2.5 yards. Would you rather leach force the run and net 2-3 yards per play and then punt?

that would eliminate the Pic-6's ... so yes I would

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Well, they were playing the run in those days. It?s ridiculous to have comparable rushing stats to those years when we were running into a light box

Well by the same token Mullen should have had passing success vs Bama, right? I mean if Mullen gets a pass for poor run stats vs bama because bama played the run, wheras Leach should have been able to run it because he faced a light box, then Mullen should have been able to pass it since all the defenders were up. Lets look at the same years as Prediction? Pain used but for passing:

2011: 150 yards on 30 attempts (4.0 per pass). 2012: 209 on 36 passes (5.8, with 1 int). 2013: 144 on 29 passes (5.0, 1 int). 2015: 305 on 45 (6.8, 1 int). 2016: 180 on 43 (4.2, 1 int). 2018 (so JoMo): 125 on 20 (6.3)

So all those years where Mullen had HIS guys that had spent years in HIS system, where he played a Bama team that stacked the box, and he couldn't pass. With Senior Dak (who next year had the best NFL rookie QB season ever) they still had a mediocre passing game and less than 400 total yards. I fail to see the basic difference between being passing team that can't pass or run on a light box vs being a run team that can't run on a stacked box or pass vs a single high safety. At least Leach in in his first year.

For the record, I don't think Leach will work and I do think he needs to add creativity to the run game. But fact of the matter is Mullen's O was almost always embarrassed. Shit often he had less than 200 total yards with 100% guys he recruited for his system.

No, the alarm bells going off should have NOTHING to do with the bama game. It should have to do with the 3 before it, the lack of effort on O, and the lack of adjustments from Leach

[msstate7]

Well by the same token Mullen should have had passing success vs Bama, right? I mean if Mullen gets a pass for poor run stats vs bama because bama played the run, wheras Leach should have been able to run it because he faced a light box, then Mullen should have been able to pass it since all the defenders were up. Lets look at the same years as Prediction? Pain used but for passing:

2011: 150 yards on 30 attempts (4.0 per pass). 2012: 209 on 36 passes (5.8, with 1 int). 2013: 144 on 29 passes (5.0, 1 int). 2015: 305 on 45 (6.8, 1 int). 2016: 180 on 43 (4.2, 1 int). 2018 (so JoMo): 125 on 20 (6.3)

So all those years where Mullen had HIS guys that had spent years in HIS system, where he played a Bama team that stacked the box, and he couldn't pass. With Senior Dak (who next year had the best NFL rookie QB season ever) they still had a mediocre passing game and less than 400 total yards. I fail to see the basic difference between being passing team that can't pass or run on a light box vs being a run team that can't run on a stacked box or pass vs a single high safety. At least Leach in in his first year.

For the record, I don't think Leach will work and I do think he needs to add creativity to the run game. But fact of the matter is Mullen's O was almost always embarrassed. Shit often he had less than 200 total yards with 100% guys he recruited for his system.

No, the alarm bells going off should have NOTHING to do with the bama game. It should have to do with the 3 before it, the lack of effort on O, and the lack of adjustments from Leach

I don't think mullen ever put up three games in a row of rushing totals like this...
Kentucky - 20
aTm - -2
Bama - 37

Wanna see an alarming trend?

Opp/Total yards/opponent def yds game allowed

LSU/ 632/ 478.6
Ark/ 400/ 423.4
Kentucky/ 295/ 355.3
aTm/ 217/ 375.8
Bama/ 200/ 389.2

We put up 36.2% of our total yards in week 1. We seem to be getting worse.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I don't think mullen ever put up three games in a row of rushing totals like this...
Kentucky - 20
aTm - -2
Bama - 37

Wanna see an alarming trend?

Opp/Total yards/opponent def yds game allowed

LSU/ 632/ 478.6
Ark/ 400/ 423.4
Kentucky/ 295/ 355.3
aTm/ 217/ 375.8
Bama/ 200/ 389.2

We put up 36.2% of our total yards in week 1. We seem to be getting worse.

I'm not defending Leach anymore, I just don't think a terrible offensive game Vs Bama should be held against him when the best coach in our history had multiple even worse games vs Bama well after he had his O socked with "his guys".

You point out the issues I do agree are actually alarming. The O is dogshit and it has been since LSU. I don't get why the Bama game seems to have been the tipping point for many- seems like that should come the week before or the week after, but not vs a team we've never been able to move the ball on in any system

[Cowbell]

I don't think mullen ever put up three games in a row of rushing totals like this...
Kentucky - 20
aTm - -2
Bama - 37

Wanna see an alarming trend?

Opp/Total yards/opponent def yds game allowed

LSU/ 632/ 478.6
Ark/ 400/ 423.4
Kentucky/ 295/ 355.3
aTm/ 217/ 375.8
Bama/ 200/ 389.2

We put up 36.2% of our total yards in week 1. We seem to be getting worse.

Don't bring facts here

[R2Dawg]

No one in their right mind can defend anything going on at this point. I'm sure Leach is telling Cohen, but wait till I get my players in here. Like Croom said we were just about to turn the corner (after 5 years) and I just need more time, it takes time to build anything. So build for 15 years for one year of success? Doesn't work that way.

[confucius say]

It'd help if we quit covering up inside wr with outside wr on running plays. Dead give away it's a run. Bama saw it and rolled their coverage down and added a guy to the box. Watch the drive that starts with about 11 minutes left in fourth quarter.

[R2Dawg]

It'd help if we quit covering up inside wr with outside wr on running plays. Dead give away it's a run. Bama saw it and rolled their coverage down and added a guy to the box. Watch the drive that starts with about 11 minutes left in fourth quarter.

The past 4 weeks it has been like the D knew our plays. They come up on the run, they jump our routes. They have figured out the 10 plays we run. Game over.

[bulldawg28]

The past 4 weeks it has been like the D knew our plays. They come up on the run, they jump our routes. They have figured out the 10 plays we run. Game over.

10? More like 5

[vv83]

Sounds like leach will never do it, but man this offense could work if he added the zone read and 3-5 QB runs. Will seems too small right now to take that beating but if we can get 20 pounds on him this offseason I think he?s athletic enough to do it. Moot point though with Leach I guess

[FISHDAWG]

Sounds like leach will never do it, but man this offense could work if he added the zone read and 3-5 QB runs. Will seems too small right now to take that beating but if we can get 20 pounds on him this offseason I think he?s athletic enough to do it. Moot point though with Leach I guess

That option currently resides in the transfer portal

[Wingnutdawg]

Yes...he is in the transfer portal, what ashamed!!!

[vv83]

That option currently resides in the transfer portal

No, if we?re really trying the SEC air raid (lol) let?s definitely roll with Will the better passer and just make him serviceable at the zone