we have shitty WRs and we are trying to run the Air Raid

[tcdog70]

that boys is 90% of the problem. Our Ol has been bad, but looked improved. How many times will Osiris ***** out? real SEC receivers go get the ball. Our WRs can't get separation and when they have a ball hit their hands-they probably won't catch it. Name 1 Guy we have that is a SEC talent? Until we sign real SEC receivers we will sux in the Air Raid.

[msstate7]

WRs looked good week 1. Plenty of separation

[HoopsDawg]

that boys is 90% of the problem.

Nope

[Irondawg]

I don’t think it’s the full problem but it’s part of the problem for sure. The biggest problem is the defense is just taking away the main routes we try to run and daring us to run.

I’d love to see us put Spivey or Cumbest in the slot and then motion them out and make them essential a lead blocker on some running plays. We’ve got to find a way to get 5+ a carry and do it until they start coming out of it some.

Better receivers will help but we are simply playing 5 v 7-8 in coverage

[bluelightstar]

Our fans will call our student athletes shitty but fall over themselves to defend the game plans of our multimillionaire coaches

[HoopsDawg]

Our fans will call our student athletes shitty but fall over themselves to defend the game plans of our multimillionaire coaches

so true.

[ShotgunDawg]

We'll never have good WRs unless we have something to sell to them. That's what we're trying to do here and it's painful to watch even though I believe it's the right thing to do.

[MetEdDawg]

We don't necessarily have shitty WRs. We have shitty Air Raid WRs. We need the following things:

1) A QB who can anticipate the openings in the zones.

2) WRs that can read a defense and adjust to what's being given.

If you haven't watched high school football recently, WRs aren't being taught a ton. Talent wins. Throw ball catch ball. Man coverage with safeties over the top. And it's why Leach doesn't play young kids a lot. Because it takes time to learn the subtleties and variations within his offense. But teaching WRs to read defenses and find zones isn't happening in high school football. It's why we look lost. We've got WRs doing things they haven't done with QBs trying to read and throw zone 65 plays a game.

We have a steep learning gap right now and Leach will not sacrifice the future for the now. We need experience and we need guys that know how to do the job in this offense. It's not shocking they look lost. They are lost. No spring practice, limited summer ball, and some of our kids have learned 3 offenses in 4 years. Leach needs more than 5 games to make this into his own.

Eventually the players learn to beat the zone, force defenses to switch up what they do, then Leach takes advantage. It's gonna take time to get teams out of the zone. Practice and reps which we didn't get a ton of. But once our WRs and QB are on the same page, things will change.

[R2Dawg]

that boys is 90% of the problem. Our Ol has been bad, but looked improved. How many times will Osiris ***** out? real SEC receivers go get the ball. Our WRs can't get separation and when they have a ball hit their hands-they probably won't catch it. Name 1 Guy we have that is a SEC talent? Until we sign real SEC receivers we will sux in the Air Raid.

Those same WR set an SEC record; that ain't the problem. Thanks for playing. Not saying we have top WR talent, but it is good enough to compete and win some games. MSU has had worse most of our history but we won anyway. Air raid is the problem.

[Bothrops]

that boys is 90% of the problem. Our Ol has been bad, but looked improved. How many times will Osiris ***** out? real SEC receivers go get the ball. Our WRs can't get separation and when they have a ball hit their hands-they probably won't catch it. Name 1 Guy we have that is a SEC talent? Until we sign real SEC receivers we will sux in the Air Raid.

You missed. Was it worth it?

[tcdog70]

I guess I'm wrong--we must have great receivers according to you Guys. But to me-they quit on routes, can't catch and let DBs just snatch the ball out of their hands. They looked ok against LSU. But who hasn't? I might add that they have problems sitting down in zones and a lot of times end up side by side. Maybe spring ball would have helped. So if our receivers are ok, y'all are just blaming ML or what? Oh yeah, I'm waiting on the SEC talent--who is it?

[tcdog70]

WRs looked good week 1. Plenty of separation

If we could convince everyone to play man to man. Looks like everyone gets separation against LSU.

[tcdog70]

You missed. Was it worth it?

Worth what? Is there a prize?

[msstate7]

If we could convince everyone to play man to man. Looks like everyone gets separation against LSU.

A good start to your plan would be run the ball effectively. Gonna be tough to get guys open when it's 8 vs 5.

[bluelightstar]

I guess I'm wrong--we must have great receivers according to you Guys. But to me-they quit on routes, can't catch and let DBs just snatch the ball out of their hands. They looked ok against LSU. But who hasn't? I might add that they have problems sitting down in zones and a lot of times end up side by side. Maybe spring ball would have helped. So if our receivers are ok, y'all are just blaming ML or what? Oh yeah, I'm waiting on the SEC talent--who is it?

Hmm, well, if I'm a coach with mediocre receivers but a line that was recruited to run block and talented running backs, do I choose to call plays that expose what our team is bad at or that emphasize what our team is good at? Can't get mad at a fish that can't climb a tree.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Shitty is a shitty way to say that these WR's and OL's were not recruited to play this system and don't fit it. How many teams in MS run the Air Raid? How many players on offense were recruited by air raid teams? Mullen and even Moorhead hid a lot of the issues by running the ball and the skill needed at these positions in this system demands much more.

[coachnorm]

We don't necessarily have shitty WRs. We have shitty Air Raid WRs. We need the following things:

1) A QB who can anticipate the openings in the zones.

2) WRs that can read a defense and adjust to what's being given.

If you haven't watched high school football recently, WRs aren't being taught a ton. Talent wins. Throw ball catch ball. Man coverage with safeties over the top. And it's why Leach doesn't play young kids a lot. Because it takes time to learn the subtleties and variations within his offense. But teaching WRs to read defenses and find zones isn't happening in high school football. It's why we look lost. We've got WRs doing things they haven't done with QBs trying to read and throw zone 65 plays a game.

We have a steep learning gap right now and Leach will not sacrifice the future for the now. We need experience and we need guys that know how to do the job in this offense. It's not shocking they look lost. They are lost. No spring practice, limited summer ball, and some of our kids have learned 3 offenses in 4 years. Leach needs more than 5 games to make this into his own.

Eventually the players learn to beat the zone, force defenses to switch up what they do, then Leach takes advantage. It's gonna take time to get teams out of the zone. Practice and reps which we didn't get a ton of. But once our WRs and QB are on the same page, things will change.

You are so correct with your first assessment about being a good receiver and being a good air raid receiver. The upcoming first round draft picks will be great receivers who will never need to execute air raid lateral reads on the defense. Elite receivers get position on defenders quickly to assure a one on one match up and the quarterback launches and the receiver wins. The quarterback gets an alignment read and determines the match up he believes in, the quarterback is not in progression read mode as often as match up mode in football these days. Think about Randy Moss doing air raid reads?????????????????????????

[Cowbell]

The title alone should get this thread locked. I hope I never understand the level of insecurity it takes to make an adult feel good about trashing college kids, many of whom are doing the best they can. If you are going to critique, learn to be respectful about it.

Also, some of you keep talking about better receivers. We need better effort from some and execution from most. But Leach's system has never needed top shelf talent at that position. It is not designed to need those kind of players. A guy like Crabtree is just a bonus that adds another weapon. So that can not be used for an excuse. Execution and experience can.

[coachnorm]

We don't necessarily have shitty WRs. We have shitty Air Raid WRs. We need the following things:

1) A QB who can anticipate the openings in the zones.

2) WRs that can read a defense and adjust to what's being given.

If you haven't watched high school football recently, WRs aren't being taught a ton. Talent wins. Throw ball catch ball. Man coverage with safeties over the top. And it's why Leach doesn't play young kids a lot. Because it takes time to learn the subtleties and variations within his offense. But teaching WRs to read defenses and find zones isn't happening in high school football. It's why we look lost. We've got WRs doing things they haven't done with QBs trying to read and throw zone 65 plays a game.

We have a steep learning gap right now and Leach will not sacrifice the future for the now. We need experience and we need guys that know how to do the job in this offense. It's not shocking they look lost. They are lost. No spring practice, limited summer ball, and some of our kids have learned 3 offenses in 4 years. Leach needs more than 5 games to make this into his own.

Eventually the players learn to beat the zone, force defenses to switch up what they do, then Leach takes advantage. It's gonna take time to get teams out of the zone. Practice and reps which we didn't get a ton of. But once our WRs and QB are on the same page, things will change.

About high school receivers, they are being taught how to win match-up. The progression read game is giving way to the single component match up passing game coast to coast. Many high schools are hiring former NFL receivers to teach the tricks of the trade not well known by others Because of this quality, quarterbacks do not have to be that accurate because receivers know how to position and battle. In the single component match-up passing game, the defense struggles to get to the quarterback because of quick released passes. Defensive coordinators struggle in the match-up passing game because some receivers only need 18 inches of distance to win a match-up. A perfect DC call can end up not perfect?

[Irondawg]

To be fair I don’t think we can talk about how it takes years to learn Leach’s system and run it properly when we bashed Joe for also having a complicated passing game to requires the receiver to make reads and adjust their rate based on those reads.

[Dawgfan77]

The real reason this version of the AR doesn't work in the SEC are the following
1. the size and physicality of the SEC DL
2. The speed of the DL and LBs create pressure on the OL and forces the QB to make hurried throws to the short routes. The speed of the LBs take away those passes from being big gainers.
3. Wide splits allows DL to utilize spin moves as well as stunts and shifts without having to blitz from LB or safety's. When DL can get pressure on QB it's a free for all in the routes for corners and safety's
4. Secondary can play zone give up short routes and make tackles on underneath routes. Lack of a running threat allows all secondary to play off ball, no play action or threat of a run means no bite from corners or safety's.
Closing: it ain't about WRs as OP stated it's the fact there's to much speed on on the SEC defense that the ML Air Raid won't work.

[Cooterpoot]

Shitty WRs, shitty OL play, shitty QB play, and a one dimensional scheme.

[msugolf]

The real reason this version of the AR doesn't work in the SEC are the following
1. the size and physicality of the SEC DL
2. The speed of the DL and LBs create pressure on the OL and forces the QB to make hurried throws to the short routes. The speed of the LBs take away those passes from being big gainers.
3. Wide splits allows DL to utilize spin moves as well as stunts and shifts without having to blitz from LB or safety's. When DL can get pressure on QB it's a free for all in the routes for corners and safety's
4. Secondary can play zone give up short routes and make tackles on underneath routes. Lack of a running threat allows all secondary to play off ball, no play action or threat of a run means no bite from corners or safety's.
Closing: it ain't about WRs as OP stated it's the fact there's to much speed on on the SEC defense that the ML Air Raid won't work.

Basically the only way it'll be somewhat successful is if we have the best pass blocking OL in the conference, multiple high 4 and 5 star receivers that are willing to be patient in learning the scheme, and a smart, accurate QB. Which is basically the same excuses people said for Croom's WCO and Moorhead.

[Dawgfan77]

Basically the only way it'll be somewhat successful is if we have the best pass blocking OL in the conference, multiple high 4 and 5 star receivers that are willing to be patient in learning the scheme, and a smart, accurate QB. Which is basically the same excuses people said for Croom's WCO and Moorhead.

I wouldn't say that. I think at MSU we have to run a variation of the Mullen offense. We can get those types of athletes all day everyday. But the Air Raid in its current state is not going to work here or anywhere the SEC. and don't give me look at UK in 97 and 98.. SEC is a diff kind of monster theses days

[msugolf]

I wouldn't say that. I think at MSU we have to run a variation of the Mullen offense. We can get those types of athletes all day everyday. But the Air Raid in its current state is not going to work here or anywhere the SEC. and don't give me look at UK in 97 and 98.. SEC is a diff kind of monster theses days

No I agree with you. I was implying that its impossible for it to work since it would basically take the most talented roster in college football for it to work here. And in that case, almost any offense would work if you had Alabama talent.

[tcdog70]

The title alone should get this thread locked. I hope I never understand the level of insecurity it takes to make an adult feel good about trashing college kids, many of whom are doing the best they can. If you are going to critique, learn to be respectful about it.

Also, some of you keep talking about better receivers. We need better effort from some and execution from most. But Leach's system has never needed top shelf talent at that position. It is not designed to need those kind of players. A guy like Crabtree is just a bonus that adds another weapon. So that can not be used for an excuse. Execution and experience can.

DUDE-if you are a WRs that has his feeling hurt--then do something about it. Like quit letting dbs take the ball away from you. What would be your description of our wide outs. Leach has said they don't play hard and finish their routes (shitty) .too many times we have 2 wideouts in the same spot (shitty). if it is a 50-50 ball it might as well be 0-100 (shitty). We continue to run routes short of the first down (shitty). we don't have 1 go to guy-(shitty). I am still waiting for some one to give Me 1 SEC talent that we have ? Kylin Hill was our best receiver and a SEC talent--who else?

[Cowbell]

DUDE-if you are a WRs that has his feeling hurt--then do something about it. Like quit letting dbs take the ball away from you. What would be your description of our wide outs. Leach has said they don't play hard and finish their routes (shitty) .too many times we have 2 wideouts in the same spot (shitty). if it is a 50-50 ball it might as well be 0-100 (shitty). We continue to run routes short of the first down (shitty). we don't have 1 go to guy-(shitty). I am still waiting for some one to give Me 1 SEC talent that we have ? Kylin Hill was our best receiver and a SEC talent--who else?

I gave you my description of our wrs in the beginning of the second paragraph. It doesn't surprise me that reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

[tcdog70]

I gave you my description of our wrs in the beginning of the second paragraph. It doesn't surprise me that reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

that is a description--sounds like Joe Biden wrote it.

[R2Dawg]

Basically the only way it'll be somewhat successful is if we have the best pass blocking OL in the conference, multiple high 4 and 5 star receivers that are willing to be patient in learning the scheme, and a smart, accurate QB. Which is basically the same excuses people said for Croom's WCO and Moorhead.

Yep so basically it is never going to work.

Answer me another question, if Bama ran the air raid, how good would it be compared to what they do now?

Short answer is it would not be near as good as the O they run now with the same talent. Scheme and playcalling really matter, a lot.

[tcdog70]

LOOKS LIKE MIKE AGREES WITH ME-------------TARKVILLE ? You can count on one hand how many words Mississippi State coach Mike Leach needed when asked what his wide receivers must do to improve the effectiveness of its overwhelmed offense.

"They need to play hard," Leach said on Wednesday's SEC teleconference.

That's it? It's that simple?

"I think that would be a huge starting point, yeah," Leach added.


Leach's succinct thoughts on Mississippi State's wideouts came two days after he called that unit "below average" in its play during the first half of the season. He had more to say about that group Monday.

Leach said the wide receivers have talent and ability, but they have a hard time focusing for long periods of time. He feels they take too many plays off when they should be locked in for each and every one of them.

He said they are not always true to their assignments either.

"When we're trying to stretch the field, we'll have too many guys try to make judgments on whether the ball is coming to them," Leach said. "And if they don't think it's coming to them, they'll gear down on the route. Then that negatively impacts the other people out there running routes and the whole dimension of the play."

[Cooterpoot]

We've had the worst WRs in P5 for a few years. No one is surprised by that. They're not good. Never have been. But they're only a portion of the problem.

[msstate7]

Gotta love a new coach calling out players already.

[Todd4State]

Gotta love a new coach calling out players already.

They probably take it a lot less personally than our fans.

[msugolf]

LOOKS LIKE MIKE AGREES WITH ME-------------TARKVILLE ? You can count on one hand how many words Mississippi State coach Mike Leach needed when asked what his wide receivers must do to improve the effectiveness of its overwhelmed offense.

"They need to play hard," Leach said on Wednesday's SEC teleconference.

That's it? It's that simple?

"I think that would be a huge starting point, yeah," Leach added.


Leach's succinct thoughts on Mississippi State's wideouts came two days after he called that unit "below average" in its play during the first half of the season. He had more to say about that group Monday.

Leach said the wide receivers have talent and ability, but they have a hard time focusing for long periods of time. He feels they take too many plays off when they should be locked in for each and every one of them.

He said they are not always true to their assignments either.

"When we're trying to stretch the field, we'll have too many guys try to make judgments on whether the ball is coming to them," Leach said. "And if they don't think it's coming to them, they'll gear down on the route. Then that negatively impacts the other people out there running routes and the whole dimension of the play."

And what makes it even more depressing is I don't see it getting any better next year. Yeah we have 2 4stars committed in Knox and Nabers but they aren't the kind of talents that can come in next year and turn it around. So we better hope all this talk about more reps really pays off for our current crop.

[RiverCityDawg]

They probably take it a lot less personally than our fans.

Absolutely. Our fans are so soft when it comes to a coach calling out his players. Great coaches have been doing this for years. The crazy thing is Leach is always in the same breath saying "we have to do a better job coaching them", but that part is ignored.

[Cooterpoot]

Gotta love a new coach calling out players already.

Somebody needs to. We've been watching the same crap from the same guys for too long.

[msstate7]

Somebody needs to. We've been watching the same crap from the same guys for too long.

I just think coaching is just as much to blame

[R2Dawg]

Somebody needs to. We've been watching the same crap from the same guys for too long.

Yes but you do that at practice - like a long time ago instead of waiting after 5 games. You don't do it at a press conference. They will just shut it down.

[Cooterpoot]

Yes but you do that at practice - like a long time ago instead of waiting after 5 games. You don't do it at a press conference. They will just shut it down.

Well, there's a reason one wasn't starting. And they're told at practice. They've been called out before. As far as shutting it down, that's what they're being blasted for, they're quitters. And it's not all of them. It's only a couple. This program was pussified the last couple years and neglected a couple years before that.

[R2Dawg]

Well, there's a reason one wasn't starting. And they're told at practice. They've been called out before. As far as shutting it down, that's what they're being blasted for, they're quitters. And it's not all of them. It's only a couple. This program was pussified the last couple years and neglected a couple years before that.

I agree about state of the culture but cut out the cancer and don't let it spread if that is the case. Don't keep letting it go on week after week. After 5 weeks he blames WR engagement at a press conference? The press conference shouldn't be where that is handled. Not saying there isn't issues. Two wrongs ain't gonna fix anything but lead to more resentment and hence my comment more will shut it down. I've seen that play out too many times.

[msu15]

Gotta love a new coach calling out players already.

As he should be. I guess you've forgotten how much shit Mullen talked in his first spring and the summer media days.

[Todd4State]

I just think coaching is just as much to blame

Same shit from the same players across 2-3 different coaching staffs and it's all Leach's fault.**

[Todd4State]

As he should be. I guess you've forgotten how much shit Mullen talked in his first spring and the summer media days.

Dan got a complete pass from a lot of our fans for some reason. And I mean before 2014.

[msstate7]

Same shit from the same players across 2-3 different coaching staffs and it's all Leach's fault.**

Leach has known the def game plan the last 3 weeks. Sorry, I expect more than nothing

[HoopsDawg]

Dan got a complete pass from a lot of our fans for some reason. And I mean before 2014.

I don't understand this post at all. What are you talking about? Dan showed he could coach football from Game 1, Season 1.

[Cooterpoot]

I agree about state of the culture but cut out the cancer and don't let it spread if that is the case. Don't keep letting it go on week after week. After 5 weeks he blames WR engagement at a press conference? The press conference shouldn't be where that is handled. Not saying there isn't issues. Two wrongs ain't gonna fix anything but lead to more resentment and hence my comment more will shut it down. I've seen that play out too many times.

Wait, you're pissed at a coach calling out players not doing what's required? But you'll get on here and call out a coach or player whenever you choose? Ok
But I've got news, this wasn't the first time he's called them out. He did it a couple weeks ago too. He didn't wait 5 weeks. I'm all for calling them out. Because he's getting called out too.
These kids are wanting to get paid. You think these guys aren't getting called out in the pros? Shit.
Players not doing their jobs get discarded just like coaches that don't do their job. Kids can transfer now if a coach leaves or they aren't happy. Go lazy it up somewhere else. One of them been here 4 years now. Coach won't get 4 years.

[Todd4State]

Leach has known the def game plan the last 3 weeks. Sorry, I expect more than nothing

Yeah- well I expect our offensive line to be able to functionally block people in front of them and our players to play hard.

[Todd4State]

I don't understand this post at all. What are you talking about? Dan showed he could coach football from Game 1, Season 1.

Which one? When he absolutely lit up Vanderbilt for 15 points or the time his ridiculous play calling cost us a key win over LSU?** What I'm talking about is his offense finishing 9th in the SEC in scoring and was actually worse than Joe Moorhead's in year one based off of PPG. Dan also had the luxury of playing Jackson State. Oh- and Dan managed to score 3 points on Alabama that year since that's apparently the bar now.

[Todd4State]

Wait, you're pissed at a coach calling out players not doing what's required? But you'll get on here and call out a coach or player whenever you choose? Ok
But I've got news, this wasn't the first time he's called them out. He did it a couple weeks ago too. He didn't wait 5 weeks. I'm all for calling them out. Because he's getting called out too.
These kids are wanting to get paid. You think these guys aren't getting called out in the pros? Shit.
Players not doing their jobs get discarded just like coaches that don't do their job. Kids can transfer now if a coach leaves or they aren't happy. Go lazy it up somewhere else. One of them been here 4 years now. Coach won't get 4 years.

And ironically a lot of these same "fans" would call Leach out for "not seeing what's wrong" had he not said anything. And therefore would have deemed it "acceptable to Leach".

It's like our fans think that coaching football is like being a magician or a wizard where you just draw up a cute little play and you can win with substandard players essentially by tricking the other team.

[Cooterpoot]

And ironically a lot of these same "fans" would call Leach out for "not seeing what's wrong" had he not said anything. And therefore would have deemed it "acceptable to Leach".

It's like our fans think that coaching football is like being a magician or a wizard where you just draw up a cute little play and you can win with substandard players essentially by tricking the other team.

And I'm fine with fans getting on Leach. There's no damn reason we should be this bad. We aren't a 1 or 2 win team. John Cohen screwed up our coach search and got desperate. He needed a name coach and he's hell bent on throwing the ball (which is fine) but he doesn't understand we've got to be balanced. Balance wins football games, not just running or throwing.

[Cowbell]

And ironically a lot of these same "fans" would call Leach out for "not seeing what's wrong" had he not said anything. And therefore would have deemed it "acceptable to Leach".

It's like our fans think that coaching football is like being a magician or a wizard where you just draw up a cute little play and you can win with substandard players essentially by tricking the other team.

There are certainly some fans that see it like this and have to be disregarded. And then there are some of us who see that Sam Pittman inherited a similar situation and his team has vastly improved. We are for Leach and believed in Leach early on, but now see some things that are alarming to us. The good news is Leach is a smart man and has plenty of time to make adjustments and get the players he needs.

[msstate7]

It's funny the about-face this board has taken on coaches blaming the players... freeze was a POS for saying we have to recruit better players, but leach is great for calling out players. I'll say this about freeze though... you give him your defensive game plan and a week to prepare, he wouldn't have 1 offensive score the last 3 weeks. BTW, that 1 off score was once the game was decided. We have zero offensive scores the last 3 weeks in a contested part of the game.

[tcdog70]

Which one? When he absolutely lit up Vanderbilt for 15 points or the time his ridiculous play calling cost us a key win over LSU?** What I'm talking about is his offense finishing 9th in the SEC in scoring and was actually worse than Joe Moorhead's in year one based off of PPG. Dan also had the luxury of playing Jackson State. Oh- and Dan managed to score 3 points on Alabama that year since that's apparently the bar now.

Dan wore shorts and Lost to South Alabama--Dan quit on Us. 17 Dan

[tcdog70]

It's funny the about-face this board has taken on coaches blaming the players... freeze was a POS for saying we have to recruit better players, but leach is great for calling out players. I'll say this about freeze though... you give him your defensive game plan and a week to prepare, he wouldn't have 1 offensive score the last 3 weeks. BTW, that 1 off score was once the game was decided. We have zero offensive scores the last 3 weeks in a contested part of the game.

dammit--if your players aren't doing what they are supposed to do--call them on it. They are getting a free College Education--you expect them to play hard.

[Cowbell]

dammit--if your players aren't doing what they are supposed to do--call them on it. They are getting a free College Education--you expect them to play hard.
7 isn't saying not to call them out. He calls players out on this board all the time. But before you blame players, you might need to look competent as a coach first. If we look competitive the last few weeks, It would go over a lot easier.

Why would you not call a coach out - he's making 5 million - and was given less talent and experience than Arnette on the defensive side of the ball - you expect him to make us look competent.

[PGHBulldogBG]

Anyone comparing this coaching job to ******* in year 1 is ridiculous. That team was picked to win 2 games in 2009 (jackson state and mtsu). We were even 10 point underdogs at vandy. Mullen won 5 with Tyson Lee at QB. Unless there is some massive turnaround with the back half of our schedule like us winning 3 or 4 of the 5 games left, then it?s not even comparable.

[Todd4State]

And I'm fine with fans getting on Leach. There's no damn reason we should be this bad. We aren't a 1 or 2 win team. John Cohen screwed up our coach search and got desperate. He needed a name coach and he's hell bent on throwing the ball (which is fine) but he doesn't understand we've got to be balanced. Balance wins football games, not just running or throwing.

I don't have a problem with criticizing the coach- but I do think it needs to have reasonable merit. Like starting Costello no matter what. Saying that he shouldn't criticize players who haven't been hustling and doing what they are supposed to is not with merit.

As far as Cohen- he tried to get the guy "everyone" seemed to want in Napier. He didn't want to come. Judge got a NFL offer. That's not on Cohen.

[Todd4State]

There are certainly some fans that see it like this and have to be disregarded. And then there are some of us who see that Sam Pittman inherited a similar situation and his team has vastly improved. We are for Leach and believed in Leach early on, but now see some things that are alarming to us. The good news is Leach is a smart man and has plenty of time to make adjustments and get the players he needs.

That's part of my thing- he isn't going to have the players this year. So when these same players keep not performing we're going to "lose the fanbase" and not even give him an opportunity to bring in the players he needs to make his system work?

[Todd4State]

7 isn't saying not to call them out. He calls players out on this board all the time. But before you blame players, you might need to look competent as a coach first. If we look competitive the last few weeks, It would go over a lot easier.

Why would you not call a coach out - he's making 5 million - and was given less talent and experience than Arnette on the defensive side of the ball - you expect him to make us look competent.

Hmmm....looking competent for a 20 year span vs guys that haven't looked competent for four years? And what does his salary matter?

[tcdog70]

Hmmm....looking competent for a 20 year span vs guys that haven't looked competent for four years? And what does his salary matter?

You beat me to it. Leach has been competent a long time. I'll call him out next year after this 17ing year is over. Give Him a spring training and then see what happens.

[msstate7]

You beat me to it. Leach has been competent a long time. I'll call him out next year after this 17ing year is over. Give Him a spring training and then see what happens.

Did the WRs getting called out have a spring training in this system?

[Cowbell]

Hmmm....looking competent for a 20 year span vs guys that haven't looked competent for four years? And what does his salary matter?
Todd - a first year head coach that inherited an arguably worse program and has arguably less talent made him look like a rookie at this (Pittman). His salary matters because we are paying him so we expect something in return. So far, 50% of this board could have coached just as well or better than he has on the offensive side of the ball.

[Dawgfan77]

Did the WRs getting called out have a spring training in this system?

I'm so tired of this excuse. Do you realize we have a 6 week fall practice to make up for missed 15 spring practices? You can't use that as an excuse. Mizz,OM,AR are doing just fine on offense.
So back to my post earlier. The SEC is a different kinda monster and the problem with the air raid is it won't work due to the size and speed of the defenses here. We could practice for 10 weeks and still continue to have issues

[Cowbell]

I'm so tired of this excuse. Do you realize we have a 6 week fall practice to make up for missed 15 spring practices? You can't use that as an excuse. Mizz,OM,AR are doing just fine on offense.
So back to my post earlier. The SEC is a different kinda monster and the problem with the air raid is it won't work due to the size and speed of the defenses here. We could practice for 10 weeks and still continue to have issues
I would rather have 6 weeks of fall practice than spring ball anyway

[HoopsDawg]

I'm so tired of this excuse. Do you realize we have a 6 week fall practice to make up for missed 15 spring practices? You can't use that as an excuse. Mizz,OM,AR are doing just fine on offense.
So back to my post earlier. The SEC is a different kinda monster and the problem with the air raid is it won't work due to the size and speed of the defenses here. We could practice for 10 weeks and still continue to have issues

You are correct. If Leach doesn't adjust, he will fail. It's as simple as that.

[tcdog70]

I would rather have 6 weeks of fall practice than spring ball anyway

great-what team do you Coach?

[tcdog70]

I'm so tired of this excuse. Do you realize we have a 6 week fall practice to make up for missed 15 spring practices? You can't use that as an excuse. Mizz,OM,AR are doing just fine on offense.
So back to my post earlier. The SEC is a different kinda monster and the problem with the air raid is it won't work due to the size and speed of the defenses here. We could practice for 10 weeks and still continue to have issues

based on 4 games? vs-20 years of it working everywhere--

[Cowbell]

based on 4 games? vs-20 years of it working everywhere--

Joe Moorhead had a successful offense everywhere he went as well

[HoopsDawg]

based on 4 games? vs-20 years of it working everywhere--

based on 7 straight games vs Washington, 4 straight games vs SEC teams with varying levels of talent, based on the adjustments that all of his former assistants have made, and based on common sense.

[Dawgfan77]

based on 4 games? vs-20 years of it working everywhere--

18 years in the Big 12 and PAC 12 doesn't equate to what he faces week in and week out in the SEC. so you can keep going back to the 20 years or whatever but fact remains. This two average defenses held is to 7 points offensively.

[HoopsDawg]

18 years in the Big 12 and PAC 12 doesn't equate to what he faces week in and week out in the SEC. so you can keep going back to the 20 years or whatever but fact remains. This two average defenses held is to 7 points offensively.

Yeah, I mean Mike Leach was the head coach at Texas Tech 20 years ago. He was there from 2000-2009. Most teams were still using a fullback.

[Dawgfan77]

Yeah, I mean Mike Leach was the head coach at Texas Tech 20 years ago. He was there from 2000-2009. Most teams were still using a fullback.

Exactly the Air Raid was great but the when he faced defenses with physical DL and Speed it's basically nullified anything he can do. The LB in the pac 12 are like strong safety's in the SEC. yes some AR principles can work but you have to be able to run the ball and the QB has to be a threat to run. We have less than 200 yds rushing as a team this year