This is what happens when

[Cowbell]

A whole sport evolves and you don't.

Note the other casualties such as Les Miles, Houston Nutt, Brett Bielema, Bobby Petrino, Bo Pelini, etc. etc. etc. What have you done for me lately!!
If you don't adjust in this day in age you will be toast. To start, Leach will have to add more play action and QB roll outs to ever make this work here.

[Charlie_Sheen420]

A whole sport evolves and you don't.

Note the other casualties such as Les Miles, Houston Nutt, Brett Bielema, Bobby Petrino, Bo Pelini, etc. etc. etc. What have you done for me lately!!
If you don't adjust in this day in age you will be toast. To start, Leach will have to add more play action and QB roll outs to ever make this work here.
He’s not going to...he’s not changing anything...square peg meet round hole

[defiantdog]

A whole sport evolves and you don't.

Note the other casualties such as Les Miles, Houston Nutt, Brett Bielema, Bobby Petrino, Bo Pelini, etc. etc. etc. What have you done for me lately!!
If you don't adjust in this day in age you will be toast. To start, Leach will have to add more play action and QB roll outs to ever make this work here.
He's not the solution

[Cowbell]

as I've been saying for 3 weeks now.

[KOdawg1]

Which is why next time we hire a coach, the main characteristic we should require behind discipline is adaptability. I don't want a coach married to a system. I want a coach that does whatever it takes to win.

[Cowbell]

Which is why next time we hire a coach, the main characteristic we should require behind discipline is adaptability. I don't want a coach married to a system. I want a coach that does whatever it takes to win.

Exactly.

[msu15]

Which is why next time we hire a coach, the main characteristic we should require behind discipline is adaptability. I don't want a coach married to a system. I want a coach that does whatever it takes to win.

Bingo, and I don't want him to call the plays offensively or defensively. Last time we had that Jackie was patrolling the sidelines and that worked out pretty well.

[Todd4State]

Bingo, and I don't want him to call the plays offensively or defensively. Last time we had that Jackie was patrolling the sidelines and that worked out pretty well.

Although the odd thing about Jackie was no matter who the OC was we still lined up in the I formation and ran the ball.

[msu15]

Although the odd thing about Jackie was no matter who the OC was we still lined up in the I formation and ran the ball.

True somewhat, ran a lot of option as well his first couple of years, and he also ran a lot of shotgun concepts with Fant, but I hear ya,

[Cowbell]

Although the odd thing about Jackie was no matter who the OC was we still lined up in the I formation and ran the ball.

Correct and those offenses adjusted to fit the talent.

[Todd4State]

True somewhat, ran a lot of option as well his first couple of years, and he also ran a lot of shotgun concepts with Fant, but I hear ya,

The option was only really with Watson Brown. And then the option kind of went out of style in the early 90's.

[Mobile Bay]

A whole sport evolves and you don't.

Note the other casualties such as Les Miles, Houston Nutt, Brett Bielema, Bobby Petrino, Bo Pelini, etc. etc. etc. What have you done for me lately!!
If you don't adjust in this day in age you will be toast. To start, Leach will have to add more play action and QB roll outs to ever make this work here.

No it isn't you Forrest Gump wanttobe. It's what happens when you take over a program full of entitles Sloppy Joe arrogant assholes. The rot must be cut out and the rest beat back into shape.

[HoopsDawg]

Joe Lee Leach.

[Cowbell]

No it isn't you Forrest Gump wanttobe. It's what happens when you take over a program full of entitles Sloppy Joe arrogant assholes. The rot must be cut out and the rest beat back into shape.
I have zero desire to be a shrimp boat captain... or a pirate :)

[ShotgunDawg]

He’s not going to...he’s not changing anything...square peg meet round hole

He's never struggled like this.

I bet he adjusts in the offseason

[defiantdog]

He's never struggled like this.

I bet he adjusts in the offseason
Does he create a 5th play to his 4 play playbook?

[Cowbell]

He's never struggled like this.

I bet he adjusts in the offseason

Gun - why do you keep making assumptions that have no merit of coming to be based on history. Do you just go off gut feel or emotion.

[HoopsDawg]

Gun - why do you keep making assumptions that have no merit of coming to be based on history. Do you just go off gut feel or emotion.

blind faith with maroon shades.

[Cowbell]

blind faith with maroon shades.

I really wish I could have that kind of faith right now... Hope is gone for me

[HancockCountyDog]

He's never struggled like this.

I bet he adjusts in the offseason

There has only been one team in his past that has run a 3-8 defense against him. Washington the last 6 years;

No other team has tried it until Kentucky, Upig, A&M and now Bama.

I?m going to have to see him beat it before I can agree ?he has never struggled like his?, because he absolutely has struggled like this against the 3-8;

[HoopsDawg]

There has only been one team in his past that has run a 3-8 defense against him. Washington the last 6 years;

No other team has tried it until Kentucky, Upig, A&M and now Bama.

I?m going to have to see him beat it before I can agree ?he has never struggled like his?, because he absolutely has struggled like this against the 3-8;

Last 7 years vs Washington.

[Irondawg]

I can’t believe no pac-12 team tried to copy Washington.

Agree it looks like a hot mess and I’m not sure why. Problem is I don’t think we could run the ball against this defense even if we tried. I think we have more offensive limitations than we realized

[Dawgcap]

Didn?t read a lot. I get the complaints but we have internal issues obviously. Now my personal thoughts are that Mississippi had coaching issues but discipline that?s Kiffin has capitalized on. Not much dissension.
Leach is encountering a backlash of discipline that he wasn?t able to flush out in the Spring. My thoughts are we had several who are so undisciplined that we are having attrition halfway through the season. To me it says we have had players that put their own agenda before the team. And I really think we still have a few half adding their way through the season for the free ride. I may be wrong but no way I?ll ever believe that the effort we see is by a totally bought in team.
Is it the system? Maybe. But deep down I believe we have several who absolutely don?t give a shit about wearing our colors. No way to win with a group that doesn?t give a shit. We have so many that busy ass but I think there are few that don?t share that belief.
Again is the system right? I don?t know but I do know nothing will work if you don?t have players that put team over self and I?m saying no staff will survive that attitude

[bluelightstar]

Are you seriously blaming discipline on our inability to score a point and taking 6 possessions to get a first down? Some people just refuse to blame a coach around here

[Dawgcap]

Yes I am. We lost 7 players 5 weeks into a season. I don?t blame discipline I blame a few that feel entitled that worry about themselves over team. You have your opinions I have mine. There are a few more. And I still see a few playing with a lack of effort maybe you don?t.
I?m as frustrated as you. Worst stretch I?ve ever seen but I think the housecleaning of players needs to continue

[Dawgcap]

I?m so guilty of supporting Moorhead to long but his inability to push players and hold them accountable is causing a lot of this. If it wasn?t tell me why we have mass attrition this late in the season

[bluelightstar]

I?m so guilty of supporting Moorhead to long but his inability to push players and hold them accountable is causing a lot of this. If it wasn?t tell me why we have mass attrition this late in the season

You should be able to bumble your way into a first down sooner than that. Coaches are laughing at our offensive scheme

[PendingTransaction]

Are you seriously blaming discipline on our inability to score a point and taking 6 possessions to get a first down? Some people just refuse to blame a coach around here

I think the coach has to always take the lion's share of the blame. It's really miraculous that this ultra rotten culture virus didn't seep into the defense side of the locker room????

[Dawgcap]

Maybe we had a rb who divided the other side of the ball and a transfer qb who wasn?t as popular as others. Maybe?

[Todd4State]

I think the coach has to always take the lion's share of the blame. It's really miraculous that this ultra rotten culture virus didn't seep into the defense side of the locker room????

The fact of the matter is some of these players have had three coaches. One was Dan Mullen who some consider our best coach ever, one was Joe Moorhead who many consider an offensive guru, and now Leach.

Eiland has had issues blocking people under all three coaches.
Osiris Mitchell has had the same issues under all three coaches.
Hill- I don't care what he says or how he wants to save face- was essentially kicked off the team.

Most of the rest except for Daurean Parker who has been OK are new guys. There is no upperclass leadership on the offensive side of the ball AT ALL. There is no Erroll Thompson or Kobe Jones. And the upperclass guys have been struggling with the same issues under different staffs. So maybe it isn't the coaches- who all have pretty good resume's. The odds that all three coaches are bad at what they do seems unlikely to me.

[PendingTransaction]

Maybe we had a rb who divided the other side of the ball and a transfer qb who wasn?t as popular as others. Maybe?

You mean the RB who had one of his most productive games in week 1 and was super excited about it improving his stock? But this same RB somehow soured a week later and created a offensive room so toxic that it left the offense incapable of scoring?

About a year ago, many said it was a rotten defense locker room.

[Dawgcap]

You mean the RB who had one of his most productive games in week 1 and was super excited about it improving his stock? But this same RB somehow soured a week later and created a offensive room so toxic that it left the offense incapable of scoring?

About a year ago, many said it was a rotten defense locker room.

Yep. This one. Just saying

[Cowbell]

Joe Lee Leach.


Yes I am. We lost 7 players 5 weeks into a season. I don?t blame discipline I blame a few that feel entitled that worry about themselves over team. You have your opinions I have mine. There are a few more. And I still see a few playing with a lack of effort maybe you don?t.
I?m as frustrated as you. Worst stretch I?ve ever seen but I think the housecleaning of players needs to continue

The problem with this is only 2 of these have seen the field.

[Cowbell]

You guys can make excuses all day long but Leach is getting paid 5 mil a year to have this team ready to play to the best of their ability. You could make the same excuses plus a dozen more for the defensive side of the ball but you don't need to. This is not a team issue. It's an offensive scheme issue.

[Dawgface]

Does he create a 5th play to his 4 play playbook?

Wouldn't matter. Just would add additional sacks to the opponent's stats.

[ShotgunDawg]

I can’t believe no pac-12 team tried to copy Washington.


Of course they copied Washington. Don't believe no one else tried it

[R2Dawg]

Although the odd thing about Jackie was no matter who the OC was we still lined up in the I formation and ran the ball.

That is what most teams did then. We did change some though on O throwing more but we were more balanced. Never abandoned the run - our bread and butter.

[was21]

https://washingtonstate.forums.rivals.com/threads/i-have-to-wonder-will-leach-survive-this.21774/

Just for info....some interesting commentary

[Homedawg]

A whole sport evolves and you don't.

Note the other casualties such as Les Miles, Houston Nutt, Brett Bielema, Bobby Petrino, Bo Pelini, etc. etc. etc. What have you done for me lately!!
If you don't adjust in this day in age you will be toast. To start, Leach will have to add more play action and QB roll outs to ever make this work here.

How is play action gonna help when we can't run?

[Matt3467]

The fact of the matter is some of these players have had three coaches. One was Dan Mullen who some consider our best coach ever, one was Joe Moorhead who many consider an offensive guru, and now Leach.

Eiland has had issues blocking people under all three coaches.
Osiris Mitchell has had the same issues under all three coaches.
Hill- I don't care what he says or how he wants to save face- was essentially kicked off the team.

Most of the rest except for Daurean Parker who has been OK are new guys. There is no upperclass leadership on the offensive side of the ball AT ALL. There is no Erroll Thompson or Kobe Jones. And the upperclass guys have been struggling with the same issues under different staffs. So maybe it isn't the coaches- who all have pretty good resume's. The odds that all three coaches are bad at what they do seems unlikely to me.

Also Hill has always been a helmet tapper and china doll fragile.

[Matt3467]

Of course they copied Washington. Don't believe no one else tried it

Exactly. People on here acting like Washington was the only one that play 3-8 and Zone.

[maroonmania]

https://washingtonstate.forums.rivals.com/threads/i-have-to-wonder-will-leach-survive-this.21774/

Just for info....some interesting commentary

Amazing how people from a distant perspective can be so out of touch. First poster REALLY thinks we fired Moorhead because of 2 bowl losses? Has he ever heard of academic fraud and the probation that went with it? Did he see our offense that JoMo ran that wasted the #1 defense in the country? Now, the total decay in the culture of discipline and accountability in the program probably couldn't be seen from afar. But to think we fired a coach over 2 losses in essentially 2 exhibition bowl games is laughable.

[Todd4State]

Exactly. People on here acting like Washington was the only one that play 3-8 and Zone.

The only way Leach is going to beat it is to get some WR's that can take the top off and allow us to throw over it.

[maroonmania]

Gun - why do you keep making assumptions that have no merit of coming to be based on history. Do you just go off gut feel or emotion.

NOBODY on this board knows what adjustments Leach will or will not make to his offense strictly because his offense has NEVER been totally humiliated like this. You don't have to change things if what you are doing is generally working. Given nobody here is in Leach's brain, and given his offense has never been completely ineffective, then I feel very confident saying that nobody here knows whether he will or won't adjust things. Its one thing to have an issue with one team in the PAC 12 that was way more talented than you, its another for your system to become a laughing stock because everyone you play stuffs everything you try to do every week. I tend to believe that Leach has more pride in the product he puts on the field than just to sit and take this without trying to adjust something. Now, in saying that, it may have to be the offseason before we can do any significant adjustments because our players are just now learning the base Air Raid system for the first time.

[HancockCountyDog]

Of course they copied Washington. Don't believe no one else tried it

Name the game that the defense played the 3-8 80% or higher. Name it - i'll find it on youtube.

[HancockCountyDog]

Here is the Oregon State/Wazzu highlights from last year -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGcB1skEF9g

WSU - does great against rushing 4, the first play i see where they drop 8 and rush 3, Wazzu throws a pick;

Oregon State rushed 4 and 5 most of the game, and they couldn't tackle a RB out of the flats because they have no athletes. This is how teams defended WSU because DC's are stubborn. WHy do you think Pelini ran man coverage against us, despite the playbook on how to beat Leach was out there? Because they simply believe they know better.

You can watch pretty much any WSU highlight reel and they are scoring against 4 and 5 man rush.

[Cowbell]

How is play action gonna help when we can't run?

Well part of the reason we can't run is because LBs can instantly see a run play at the snap of the football and commit upfield. So disguising with play action would actually help out both.

[Mobile Bay]

Name the game that the defense played the 3-8 80% or higher. Name it - i'll find it on youtube.

Nobody did because it didn't work against WSU. It's not a magic bean.

[bulldawg28]

I think the coach has to always take the lion's share of the blame. It's really miraculous that this ultra rotten culture virus didn't seep into the defense side of the locker room????

It's crazy how It's lopsided isn't it?!

[bulldawg28]

The only way Leach is going to beat it is to get some WR's that can take the top off and allow us to throw over it.

You're not taking the top off SEC defenses when it's basically double covered in zone.

[Maroonthirteen]

https://washingtonstate.forums.rivals.com/threads/i-have-to-wonder-will-leach-survive-this.21774/

Just for info....some interesting commentary

The most interesting to me.... is the post about their 2018 season. Poster says not one team that they beat that year ended up in the top 25.

SEC will have 4-5 in top 25 every year.

[HancockCountyDog]

Nobody did because it didn't work against WSU. It's not a magic bean.

Are you serious?

Have you missed the last 7 apple cups? It worked to perfection while their DC laughed in Leach?s face about how easy his team was to prepare for.

[Todd4State]

NOBODY on this board knows what adjustments Leach will or will not make to his offense strictly because his offense has NEVER been totally humiliated like this. You don't have to change things if what you are doing is generally working. Given nobody here is in Leach's brain, and given his offense has never been completely ineffective, then I feel very confident saying that nobody here knows whether he will or won't adjust things. Its one thing to have an issue with one team in the PAC 12 that was way more talented than you, its another for your system to become a laughing stock because everyone you play stuffs everything you try to do every week. I tend to believe that Leach has more pride in the product he puts on the field than just to sit and take this without trying to adjust something. Now, in saying that, it may have to be the offseason before we can do any significant adjustments because our players are just now learning the base Air Raid system for the first time.

The thing is Leach has struggled at first when installing the system. So, because of that I don't think he will change much. As they pointed out last night- statistically we're about where Leach has always been in year one. And yes, LSU is an outlier but at Wazzu I'm sure he got to play a couple of cupcakes to pad some numbers so it probably balances out somewhat. What he'll do is try to bring in players that fit his system better- we're already seeing that in recruiting with the two JUCO offensive line recruits and we don't have a slot receiver on the team like Knox. Not having a slot receiver like that is a major issue because Williams and Payton are not exactly guys that are going to make people miss in space. Having a guy like that will help us when teams are dropping eight. Honestly we may need to try to find a traditional slot guy from the JUCO ranks- which we should be able to find pretty easily in MS JUCO- or look at possibly moving Lee Witherspoon to Slot WR to see if he fits there.

I could see Ducking maybe helping us out a lot next year because of his length.

[maroonmania]

The thing is Leach has struggled at first when installing the system. So, because of that I don't think he will change much. As they pointed out last night- statistically we're about where Leach has always been in year one. And yes, LSU is an outlier but at Wazzu I'm sure he got to play a couple of cupcakes to pad some numbers so it probably balances out somewhat. What he'll do is try to bring in players that fit his system better- we're already seeing that in recruiting with the two JUCO offensive line recruits and we don't have a slot receiver on the team like Knox. Not having a slot receiver like that is a major issue because Williams and Payton are not exactly guys that are going to make people miss in space. Having a guy like that will help us when teams are dropping eight. Honestly we may need to try to find a traditional slot guy from the JUCO ranks- which we should be able to find pretty easily in MS JUCO- or look at possibly moving Lee Witherspoon to Slot WR to see if he fits there.

I could see Ducking maybe helping us out a lot next year because of his length.

While Leach may have started a little slowly at his 2 previous stops, there has never been anything like this. We are talking a Leach coached offense scoring 7 points in the last 3 games played. Like I said, he has never has his offense be an embarrassment, but that is exactly what it is right now. And will add that's its not like Arkansas, Kentucky, and Alabama are all world class defenses.