I see a lot of you questioning Leach's decisions.....

[BogeyGolfer]

Leach has put a lot of guys in the NFL and has an extensive coaching tree. That doesn't happen by chance. He ain't Joe Moe, trust the process.....

[HoopsDawg]

I know I'm a broken record on this, but all of those guys on his coaching tree have adapted his Air Raid Offense. Leach is still running basically the same plays out of the same formations.

[BogeyGolfer]

This is due to the players learning the system, they are just now trying to grasp the basics. Look at the guys he has coached and recruited, they have been very successful in the NFL. Take a look at his coaching record. Trust the process...

[Todd4State]

Leach will be fine. This year sucks but these players have mostly sucked no matter who the coach was. I'm glad to see him purging some of them that don't fit.

[ShotgunDawg]

I know I'm a broken record on this, but all of those guys on his coaching tree have adapted his Air Raid Offense. Leach is still running basically the same plays out of the same formations.

I get your point, and he may have to adjust some things.

But offensive scheme is only about 30% of coaching a football team. Trust the process on the other 70%

[ShotgunDawg]

Is Leach’s coaching tree the best in college football because of his scheme or the way he runs a program?

In Swing your Sword, Leach says that his biggest regret isn’t a player that he’s cut but rather the ones he didn’t cut. Says 1-2 players can infect an entire team.

Trust him. He’s right. He’s a fine wine.

The money involved and the instinct gratification society has destroyed the ability for coaches to build the right way. Everything is a quick fix these days.

You can’t beat Bama with a quick fix. Not happening.
https://twitter.com/gil_brandt/status/1321542165760073728?s=21

[Lord McBuckethead]

I agree, I have no idea how bad it will get this year or next year, but I for one believe he will get it working.

[HoopsDawg]

I'm not going to trust Leach until he solves the 3-8.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

ESPN is going to tell us what is wrong with Leach during halftime of USA- Georgia Southern game.

[Mobile Bay]

I'm not going to trust Leach until he solves the 3-8.

He only solved that for 20 years, but whatever you say bub.

[ShotgunDawg]

ESPN is going to tell us what is wrong with Leach during halftime of USA- Georgia Southern game.

Did they really?

Why do they care so much about him. Is it political?

[ShotgunDawg]

He only solved that for 20 years, but whatever you say bub.

Exactly. It’s insanity.

[Cowbell]

I just want to see him make in game adjustments to get things rolling. I believe Leach is a great coach but he has not coached great the last three ball games.

[Joebob]

He only solved that for 20 years, but whatever you say bub.

I hope so, but that's not the impression I've gotten so far. The broadcast analysts on the Arky game said Washington's 3-8 was his Kryptonite. They didn't mention anyone else trying it. Then there's been the last three games, where he certainly didn't solve it. So until I see it happen, color me skeptical. He seems way too smart not to solve it, but again, I ain't seen it yet.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Did they really?

Why do they care so much about him. Is it political?

Yes. Prepare to be the most hated team by MSESPN

[ShotgunDawg]

Yes. Prepare to be the most hated team by MSESPN

There's no such thing as bad publicity. We'll gain fans through that as well

[StateDawg44]

I agree, I have no idea how bad it will get this year or next year, but I for one believe he will get it working.


For many people right now, this like saying a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while.

[Cowbell]

When a team regresses for three weeks in a row, fans are certainly fair to question the guy getting paid $5 mil. Calling for his job is foolish. But discussing concerns is fair. Don't get the two groups of people confused.

[ShotgunDawg]

When a team regresses for three weeks in a row, fans are certainly fair to question the guy getting paid $5 mil. Calling for his job is foolish. But discussing concerns is fair. Don't get the two groups of people confused.

Agree.

[thf24]

I just want to see him make in game adjustments to get things rolling. I believe Leach is a great coach but he has not coached great the last three ball games.

We can't realistically expect much in-game when the adjustments that need to be made right now are 5 OL blocking 3, QB making decisions faster, and WR's sitting down in the right spots. Tuning a machine isn't going to give you anything significant if it's barely running in the first place.

[DeltaChicagoDog]

When a team regresses for three weeks in a row, fans are certainly fair to question the guy getting paid $5 mil. Calling for his job is foolish. But discussing concerns is fair. Don't get the two groups of people confused.

Great point.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

We can't realistically expect much in-game when the adjustments that need to be made right now are 5 OL blocking 3, QB making decisions faster, and WR's sitting down in the right spots. Tuning a machine isn't going to give you anything significant if it's barely running in the first place.

A lot of truth here. If 5 linemen can't figure out how to block 3, it doesn't matter about your QB, playcalling, etc. It's a numbers game. Five players have to be able to beat 3 players due to numbers. Now it could be talent, coaching, technique, effort, scheme, etc. as the reason that they can't right now. But 5 have to win against 3 or no system will work.

[messageboardsuperhero]

I'm not going to trust Leach until he solves the 3-8.

You are acting like this whole drop a bunch of guys into zone and just rush a few strategy is some silver bullet that Leach has never been able to solve. It is probably the best way to defend this offense because it limits the big plays, but the scheme can still work. Leach beat it all the time in the Pac12.

Take this game against Stanford in 2016. I think I counted about two plays in the entire video where Stanford rushed more than four. Everything else was rush 3-4 and drop 7-8 into coverage. They mixed some man and zone to try confusing the QB. WSU still put up 42 points against a team that finished 18th nationally and 2nd in the Pac12 in scoring defense. Stanford 2016 is better than any defense we have faced this year, and Leach shredded their drop 7-8.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ0RpmCYPXE

If we are still having these issues into next year, I?ll be right there on the adjustments need to be made train. But it?s a little ridiculous to judge this as a finished product, given the circumstances we are dealing with (no spring, weird fall practice schedule, etc). Give this offense a chance to succeed before deeming it a failure.

[Lord McBuckethead]

He only solved that for 20 years, but whatever you say bub.

3-8 with good athletes he hasn't. That is what he will face in literally every single conference game.

[Cowbell]

3-8 with good athletes he hasn't. That is what he will face in literally every single conference game.

Agreed

[Hot Rock]

I'm not going to trust Leach until he solves the 3-8.

The answer is simple to solve the 3-8 defense. The OL just has to block better, problem solved.

How hard is that going to be is the question. New players, or the ones you got actually learning. We had no spring and these guys are just now learning this system. We 4 game in, relax.

[Hot Rock]

My goodness folks.. NO offense will work if you can't block 3 with 5.

Yes, it's harder against better athletes but he can get better OL here too or the ones we have can learn. They aren't chopped liver, there is a lot of talent on that Oline room but they are being asked to do stuff they have not grasped as of yet.

Again, we are 4 weeks in... relax a littel

[HoopsDawg]

You are acting like this whole drop a bunch of guys into zone and just rush a few strategy is some silver bullet that Leach has never been able to solve. It is probably the best way to defend this offense because it limits the big plays, but the scheme can still work. Leach beat it all the time in the Pac12.

Take this game against Stanford in 2016. I think I counted about two plays in the entire video where Stanford rushed more than four. Everything else was rush 3-4 and drop 7-8 into coverage. They mixed some man and zone to try confusing the QB. WSU still put up 42 points against a team that finished 18th nationally and 2nd in the Pac12 in scoring defense. Stanford 2016 is better than any defense we have faced this year, and Leach shredded their drop 7-8.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ0RpmCYPXE

If we are still having these issues into next year, I?ll be right there on the adjustments need to be made train. But it?s a little ridiculous to judge this as a finished product, given the circumstances we are dealing with (no spring, weird fall practice schedule, etc). Give this offense a chance to succeed before deeming it a failure.

You said it yourself. Stanford is rushing 4 some. They are dropping 7 some. They are playing man some. That's not what teams are doing to us. They are dropping 8 nearly every play. They are playing zone every play. They are basically never blitzing.

It's true, other teams in the Pac 12 have tried the 3-8. But those teams couldn't get pressure with their 3. Also, their drops were too shallow either b/c they were dropping Dlinemen or their LB's didn't have the atheticism that the SEC teams have. It's not just the SEC dlinemen, its the LB's and extra DB's that these SEC teams have. And the SEC teams don't have to put in pass rush specialist so they can still stop the run with their Down 3 plus 1 LB.

This 3-8 scheme completely takes away all the mesh series of plays that Leach loves. It takes away all the deepr routes. Everthing has to be checked down underneath, and SEC players don't miss tackles like some of these soft Pac 12 defenses other than Washington.

[sonof34]

He only solved that for 20 years, but whatever you say bub.

The last three games tell a different story

ETA: The PAC-12 hasn?t been worth a damn in years so whatever he did against Stanford has a very low probability working against an SEC team

[HoopsDawg]

The answer is simple to solve the 3-8 defense. The OL just has to block better, problem solved.

How hard is that going to be is the question. New players, or the ones you got actually learning. We had no spring and these guys are just now learning this system. We 4 game in, relax.

Block better? Haha, that sounds nice. Here's the reality: these defenses are forcing the QB to have to wait for receivers to get open because they have 8 guys covering 5. So that is allowing these elite athletes in the SEC, every team has at least one, to get pressure. Remember, due to the wide splits our OT's are one on one.

[DownwardDawg]

3-8 with good athletes he hasn't. That is what he will face in literally every single conference game.

I understand the frustration, but you guys that keep saying this sound like the politicians on tv. You have made up your mind that no matter how many times it gets posted, you will ignore the fact that it was ONLY Washington that shut this offense down, and the fact that the talent difference between WSU and Washington is like the difference between USM and Bama. Almost every team he faces ran the 3-8 or similar.
Bama and Georgia will probably always shut it down, but what's new??? They've always shut us down.

[thf24]

You said it yourself. Stanford is rushing 4 some. They are dropping 7 some. They are playing man some. That's not what teams are doing to us. They are dropping 8 nearly every play. They are playing zone every play. They are basically never blitzing.

It's true, other teams in the Pac 12 have tried the 3-8. But those teams couldn't get pressure with their 3. Also, their drops were too shallow either b/c they were dropping Dlinemen or their LB's didn't have the atheticism that the SEC teams have. It's not just the SEC dlinemen, its the LB's and extra DB's that these SEC teams have. And the SEC teams don't have to put in pass rush specialist so they can still stop the run with their Down 3 plus 1 LB.

This 3-8 scheme completely takes away all the mesh series of plays that Leach loves. It takes away all the deepr routes. Everthing has to be checked down underneath, and SEC players don't miss tackles like some of these soft Pac 12 defenses other than Washington.

It doesn't take SEC talent to get pressure with 3 if multiple OL aren't even touching anyone half the time. Until the OL are executing correctly, you can't conclude it doesn't work in the SEC. Same for the coverage.

[ShotgunDawg]

It doesn't take SEC talent to get pressure with 3 if multiple OL aren't even touching anyone half the time. Until the OL are executing correctly, you can't conclude it doesn't work in the SEC. Same for the coverage.

Isn’t this obvious?

Amazing how many can’t understand this

[HoopsDawg]

Isn’t this obvious?

Amazing how many can’t understand this

There are a couple of things that are obvious:

1. We haven't done jack 3 straight games on offense
2. If a defense is going to rush 3 and drop 8, you run them out of it. You don't pass your way out of it. Your run your way out of it. And that is painfully obvious to the posters on here with football knowledge and to all of Mike Leach's disciples.

[thf24]

There are a couple of things that are obvious:

1. We haven't done jack 3 straight games on offense
2. If a defense is going to rush 3 and drop 8, you run them out of it. You don't pass your way out of it. Your run your way out of it. And that is painfully obvious to the posters on here with football knowledge and to all of Mike Leach's disciples.

Our OL hasn't executed any better blocking for the run than the pass. Maybe it's as simple, at this point, as lining them up closer together and letting them do what they're used to; maybe it's not. Either way, it's amazing how it's so much more clear to the wealth of football knowledge we have on this board than the guy who's been doing it for 30 years with a lot of success.

[StateDawg44]

Isn’t this obvious?

Amazing how many can’t understand this

It's not hard to understand.

What is hard to understand is why there have been no real adjustments made.

And I don't mean run the ball more or anything like that. Specifically on not addressing the unblocked opponents running into a sack basically untouched.

Granted, turnovers have murdered us too. Maybe more than the OL. But OL very likely could've helped prevent some of those. Not all though.

[thf24]

Our OL hasn't executed any better blocking for the run than the pass. Maybe it's as simple, at this point, as lining them up closer together and letting them do what they're used to; maybe it's not. Either way, it's amazing how it's so much more clear to the wealth of football knowledge we have on this board than the guy who's been doing it for 30 years with a lot of success.

eta: Look, no one's denying that modern day SEC talent and speed could very well present some unique challenges that will require Leach to adapt or fail in the long run. The issue right now though is that we are executing so poorly in so many facets, due to novelty, lack of normal preparation time, suboptimal skillsets, and every other bizarre challenge this calendar year has thrown at us, that we can't possibly know if or to what degree that's going to be true at this moment. Expecting Leach to start making effective adjustments before the scheme is running anywhere close to the way he intends is a huge reach at best.

[Cowbell]

We can't realistically expect much in-game when the adjustments that need to be made right now are 5 OL blocking 3, QB making decisions faster, and WR's sitting down in the right spots. Tuning a machine isn't going to give you anything significant if it's barely running in the first place.

I completely disagree.

[FISHDAWG]

Our OL hasn't executed any better blocking for the run than the pass. Maybe it's as simple, at this point, as lining them up closer together and letting them do what they're used to; maybe it's not. Either way, it's amazing how it's so much more clear to the wealth of football knowledge we have on this board than the guy who's been doing it for 30 years with a lot of success.

Maybe he should "coach" them up a little - he is a coach. Or maybe find ways to divert some of this pass rush ... with all of that experience I'm sure he should be able to come up with something other than waiting on next year and different players.... And it's 19 years - not 30

[FISHDAWG]

eta: Look, no one's denying that modern day SEC talent and speed could very well present some unique challenges that will require Leach to adapt or fail in the long run. The issue right now though is that we are executing so poorly in so many facets, due to novelty, lack of normal preparation time, suboptimal skillsets, and every other bizarre challenge this calendar year has thrown at us, that we can't possibly know if or to what degree that's going to be true at this moment. Expecting Leach to start making effective adjustments before the scheme is running anywhere close to the way he intends is a huge reach at best.

Do you think he should do nothing to try and win now?

[StateDawg44]

We can't realistically expect much in-game when the adjustments that need to be made right now are 5 OL blocking 3, QB making decisions faster, and WR's sitting down in the right spots. Tuning a machine isn't going to give you anything significant if it's barely running in the first place.


I completely disagree.



That's almost like saying establishing a run game doesn't open up the passing game.

I'm not saying we need to run more. I know it's not happening and that's fine.

I just don't understand how fixing even just one facet of the game wouldn't benefit a "machine". Sometimes all it takes is a little oil or a new spark plug.

[Todd4State]

I completely disagree.

The huge reach is our fans thinking it's as simple as just handing the ball off. If that was the case when we do run we would be getting 10 yard chunks every time and we aren't.

What we need to do is learn to execute the offense correctly. If our players learn how to do that we will be fine. Hell, if Costello would stop throwing interceptions we would be fine as it is.

[FISHDAWG]

The huge reach is our fans thinking it's as simple as just handing the ball off. If that was the case when we do run we would be getting 10 yard chunks every time and we aren't.

What we need to do is learn to execute the offense correctly. If our players learn how to do that we will be fine. Hell, if Costello would stop throwing interceptions we would be fine as it is.

all I've heard before the season is how simple his offense was and how he was successful with lesser talent - what's changed?

[Todd4State]

That's almost like saying establishing a run game doesn't open up the passing game.

I'm not saying we need to run more. I know it's not happening and that's fine.

I just don't understand how fixing even just one facet of the game wouldn't benefit a "machine". Sometimes all it takes is a little oil or a new spark plug.

It's the precision part that he is talking about. Our receivers are not precise and their spacing sucks. They half ass routes when the ball isn't thrown their way. Osiris is probably the worst wide receiver I have ever seen as far as blocking on screens. The offensive linemen have confusion on who to block when three are rushing. That shouldn't happen. They're literally not blocking people right in front of them. Eiland has the worst feet of any offensive lineman in the SEC I have ever seen. Costello has zero field awareness and doesn't know what to do. Complete head case. Other than Costello those timing and precision things take time to master.

[Todd4State]

all I've heard before the season is how simple his offense was and how he was successful with lesser talent - what's changed?

We haven't had the reps. It's not complex- it's literally a few plays. But the beauty is you rep it so much that the players master it and know every nuance of every play.

We also have players that have never had success under any coach- but now Eiland's feet are magically better and Osiris can catch the ball consistently?

[Cowbell]

The huge reach is our fans thinking it's as simple as just handing the ball off. If that was the case when we do run we would be getting 10 yard chunks every time and we aren't.

What we need to do is learn to execute the offense correctly. If our players learn how to do that we will be fine. Hell, if Costello would stop throwing interceptions we would be fine as it is.

Todd, I respect you and your take. But the problem we have right now is DCs are making it look like chess out there to our oline. LBs are not committing run or pass until the ball is snapped and then they react. Our oline is confused on who is picking up the backers when they do stunt or play run. That then puts them a step behind when they have to commit to a Down lineman. People keep saying we can't block 3 with 5, including Leach, but the problem is sometimes they bring 6-7. Leach has got to adjust to simplify things for the OL. Sure they are whiffing plenty, but it's more because they are confused than anything. That's coaching.

[ShotgunDawg]

all I've heard before the season is how simple his offense was and how he was successful with lesser talent - what's changed?

We've got the wrong type of QB

[Cowbell]

We've got the wrong type of QB

Gun, he brought KJ in. If you are going to make excuses, atleast make it valid.

[FISHDAWG]

Gun, he brought KJ in. If you are going to make excuses, atleast make it valid.

No I think he's right on the wrong QB ... I will concede that if we had a spring training he would have already known this and maybe would have made a plan towards Rogers or even working in some type of sets for Schrader .... but there's not much of an excuse to just keep trotting KJ out there and just blaming the O-line. But I'm to the point of just shutting up until next year (more like next game) and seeing what benefit is realized after a spring training ... not sure I have enough patience tho to wait on recruiting

[SheltonChoked]

You said it yourself. Stanford is rushing 4 some. They are dropping 7 some. They are playing man some. That's not what teams are doing to us. They are dropping 8 nearly every play. They are playing zone every play. They are basically never blitzing.

It's true, other teams in the Pac 12 have tried the 3-8. But those teams couldn't get pressure with their 3. Also, their drops were too shallow either b/c they were dropping Dlinemen or their LB's didn't have the atheticism that the SEC teams have. It's not just the SEC dlinemen, its the LB's and extra DB's that these SEC teams have. And the SEC teams don't have to put in pass rush specialist so they can still stop the run with their Down 3 plus 1 LB.

This 3-8 scheme completely takes away all the mesh series of plays that Leach loves. It takes away all the deepr routes. Everthing has to be checked down underneath, and SEC players don't miss tackles like some of these soft Pac 12 defenses other than Washington.


The 8 man zone does not "take away the mesh play". if the 5 OL block the 3 DL, there is time for all 5 in the pattern to sit in the holes of the zone. So far, out WR have either not sat in the zone holes, or the QB has not has time due to an OL whiffing on a block. (Sharpe did it 2-3 times with a man HEAD UP on him, that's why we looked better with smith playing, he blocked the guy in front of him)

Read this link
https://www.cougcenter.com/2013/4/10/4120598/air-raid-playbook-the-mesh

Mesh vs zone
https://www.cougcenter.com/2013/4/10/4120598/air-raid-playbook-the-mesh


The mesh concept works so well because of the stress it puts on both man, and zone defensive coverages. Shallow crossing routes are extremely difficult to guard in man coverage, not only because of the typical speed mismatch of an inside receiver on a linebacker, but also because of the sheer chaos that exists that close to the line of scrimmage. Even referee positioning comes into play because of the cluttered mass of bodies.

Mesh_triangle_medium

Zone coverage is also tested with a triangular stress. We briefly covered how a defensive zone is vertically and horizontally stressed in the first post of this Air Raid series (LINK), and Chris Brown details much more about triangle stresses here.

[SheltonChoked]

all I've heard before the season is how simple his offense was and how he was successful with lesser talent - what's changed?

Besides our OL not blocking guys literally in front of them? Not much.

[HoopsDawg]

The 8 man zone does not "take away the mesh play". if the 5 OL block the 3 DL, there is time for all 5 in the pattern to sit in the holes of the zone. So far, out WR have either not sat in the zone holes, or the QB has not has time due to an OL whiffing on a block. (Sharpe did it 2-3 times with a man HEAD UP on him, that's why we looked better with smith playing, he blocked the guy in front of him)

Read this link
https://www.cougcenter.com/2013/4/10/4120598/air-raid-playbook-the-mesh

Mesh vs zone
https://www.cougcenter.com/2013/4/10/4120598/air-raid-playbook-the-mesh

The mesh can work well vs a zone. Not an 8 man zone though. Not the way these teams are playing it. Washington gave the blue print. Barry Odom perfected it even more in our game against Arkansas. UK copied it. A&M copied it with a couple of nice wrinkles.

[Homedawg]

The mesh can work well vs a zone. Not an 8 man zone though. Not the way these teams are playing it. Washington gave the blue print. Barry Odom perfected it even more in our game against Arkansas. UK copied it. A&M copied it with a couple of nice wrinkles.

Oh it can. But against ark our wr just kept running like they were against man most of the time. And against UK and even A&M the two meshing would squat 3 yards apart. smh. It's a play that should and does work against even an 8 man drop we just didn't do it well, needless to say.

[SheltonChoked]

The mesh can work well vs a zone. Not an 8 man zone though. Not the way these teams are playing it. Washington gave the blue print. Barry Odom perfected it even more in our game against Arkansas. UK copied it. A&M copied it with a couple of nice wrinkles.

Yeah Washington, Arkansas, and A&M are the only team ever to run a 8 man zone vs a leach coached team. In 20 years. I forgot*****

If you really think that you should stick to hoops.

[HoopsDawg]

Yeah Washington, Arkansas, and A&M are the only team ever to run a 8 man zone vs a leach coached team. In 20 years. I forgot*****

If you really think that you should stick to hoops.

I want Leach to succeed. I'm not pulling against him. What I am telling you, is that if Leach doesn't adapt, he will not succeed at MSU.

One defense is shutting us down whether you want to admit it or not. Teams wouldn't run this against Art Briles, Dana Holgerson, other guys on the Leach tree. They would run the hell out of the ball. Leach hasn't adjusted and teams have caught up.

So what can he do? Go to traditonal line splits. Use a Mobile QB (Will) to run it a little. Add in a couple of varities to the run game like he did with the toss. Can't just run the draw and inside zone. Need some diversity with the runs and the run blocking. Adapt or just keep doing the same thing and blaming execution. I promise you the result will be 2-8 or 3-7 at best.

And we aren't killing it on the recruiting trail with Olinemen. This is going to be a problem for his entire tenure unless he adjusts. I believe he will. I just haven't seen it yet.

[HoopsDawg]

Oh it can. But against ark our wr just kept running like they were against man most of the time. And against UK and even A&M the two meshing would squat 3 yards apart. smh. It's a play that should and does work against even an 8 man drop we just didn't do it well, needless to say.

I'm sure we can execute better. We will probably get better personnel especially at WR. Of cours we will never have the perfect personnel. Let me ask you a question, is there another coach in colllege football that would attack a 3-8, cover 2 rolling back to cover 3 zone, by throwing the ball 60 times other than Leach?

[SheltonChoked]

I want Leach to succeed. I'm not pulling against him. What I am telling you, is that if Leach doesn't adapt, he will not succeed at MSU.

One defense is shutting us down whether you want to admit it or not. Teams wouldn't run this against Art Briles, Dana Holgerson, other guys on the Leach tree. They would run the hell out of the ball. Leach hasn't adjusted and teams have caught up.

So what can he do? Go to traditonal line splits. Use a Mobile QB (Will) to run it a little. Add in a couple of varities to the run game like he did with the toss. Can't just run the draw and inside zone. Need some diversity with the runs and the run blocking. Adapt or just keep doing the same thing and blaming execution. I promise you the result will be 2-8 or 3-7 at best.

And we aren't killing it on the recruiting trail with Olinemen. This is going to be a problem for his entire tenure unless he adjusts. I believe he will. I just haven't seen it yet.

I think Leach will succeed at MSU. He has everywhere else, with less talent, since 1997.
And since 1997, teams have used a 3 man rush 8 man zone vs a leach air raid.

Leach has won 2/3rds of his games over 18 years as a power 5 head coach, This is not Croom or JOMO with 0 years as a head coach.

And if our line is not blocking the front 3, You think the OL will magically be able to block 5 on a running play? Running the ball will not do shit either if we don't block.

Stick to hoops.

[LC Dawg]

As it's been stated on here a number of times it's not 5 blocking 3. Our tackles are going one-on-one with SEC defensive ends and they are consistently losing.
Mullen's offense often covered up the fact that we did not have top level SEC offensive tackles. I'm not sure we can recruit the tackles we need to consistently pass block SEC defensive ends one-on-one when the ends know we are throwing the ball. There aren't many of those type tackles available.
If Leach can make this happen without changing his offense then more power to him but it looks like he may have to change things up a little. Time will tell. We don't really have a choice but to sit back and see what happens.

[vindastra]

Todd, I respect you and your take. But the problem we have right now is DCs are making it look like chess out there to our oline. LBs are not committing run or pass until the ball is snapped and then they react. Our oline is confused on who is picking up the backers when they do stunt or play run. That then puts them a step behind when they have to commit to a Down lineman. People keep saying we can't block 3 with 5, including Leach, but the problem is sometimes they bring 6-7. Leach has got to adjust to simplify things for the OL. Sure they are whiffing plenty, but it's more because they are confused than anything. That's coaching.

Wouldn't Arnett do the same in our practices? All info points to KJ being awesome in practice.

[Hot Rock]

all I've heard before the season is how simple his offense was and how he was successful with lesser talent - what's changed?


Nothing changed, we just didn't understand one very important point.

The offense is simple to understand with only a few plays but it is not simple to execute.

In order for this offense to be successful they have all be on the same page and they simply are not. We did not understand how much missing spring meant, no summer workouts etc... On any given play, we may only have two WR's running the correct routes properly.

I hope to see progress in all aspects by the end of the year. Wins and losses mean little to me at this point but seeing improved execution levels will. Lord knows I hope the line gets better at what they are doing. Who knows, we still might win a few more.

[Todd4State]

Oh it can. But against ark our wr just kept running like they were against man most of the time. And against UK and even A&M the two meshing would squat 3 yards apart. smh. It's a play that should and does work against even an 8 man drop we just didn't do it well, needless to say.

THIS

[Todd4State]

Nothing changed, we just didn't understand one very important point.

The offense is simple to understand with only a few plays but it is not simple to execute.

In order for this offense to be successful they have all be on the same page and they simply are not. We did not understand how much missing spring meant, no summer workouts etc... On any given play, we may only have two WR's running the correct routes properly.

I hope to see progress in all aspects by the end of the year. Wins and losses mean little to me at this point but seeing improved execution levels will. Lord knows I hope the line gets better at what they are doing. Who knows, we still might win a few more.

And THIS

[Jarius]

3-8 with good athletes he hasn't. That is what he will face in literally every single conference game.

He has a 7-2 record against Texas A&M. He had a winning record against many teams with better defenses than the ones we have been getting embarrassed by.....this keeps getting repeated but it’s very wrong. The idea that Arkansas, Kentucky, and A&M are defensive fronts that are superior to ones that he has shredded before is just not true.

[HancockCountyDog]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ0RpmCYPXE

.

Did you actually watch that game? Stanford rushed 4 a ton in that game. They played a ton of man coverage.

You may be right about Leach, but that game showed nothing.

[HancockCountyDog]

I think Leach will succeed at MSU. He has everywhere else, with less talent, since 1997.
And since 1997, teams have used a 3 man rush 8 man zone vs a leach air raid.

Leach has won 2/3rds of his games over 18 years as a power 5 head coach, This is not Croom or JOMO with 0 years as a head coach.

And if our line is not blocking the front 3, You think the OL will magically be able to block 5 on a running play? Running the ball will not do shit either if we don't block.

Stick to hoops.

You are simply wrong about teams rushing 3 and dropping 8 against him for 20 years; it simply hasn?t happened;

Washington was the first team to run 80-90% of the game. Go back and watch any Wazzu or Tech game, teams did not strictly rush 3 and drop 8 all game. It simply didn?t happen;

I?ve watched at least a half dozen wazzu games in the last few weeks and I?m telling you, no one else has done this consistently; go show me a game other than Washington that Wazzu faced the 3-8 over 80% of the time.

Washington was the first team to be patient enough to really just dare Leach to run it and they had athletes to stop them if they did.

Look, we all want this hire to work, but simply saying ?he has beaten the 3-8 for 20 years is simply untrue?

[HancockCountyDog]

Here are some of his better games:

2008 Texas vs Texas Tech

https://youtu.be/0PY4f4awkoc

Texas rushed at least 4 almost all game.

2003 A&M vs Texas Tech

https://youtu.be/VqrLHAZoZgI

A&M brought 5 a ton in this game, Leach killed them every time they did;

2003 Tech vs black bears

https://youtu.be/sjVzVYGJ59o

Highlights only, but every time Texh is scoring, bears are bringing 4;

2017 Washington State vs USC

https://youtu.be/GHqinKQqKjY

USC rushed 4 and 5 all game, and they paid the price.

I could post as many links to as many games as you need, I promise you Leach has not faced in the last 20 years the 3-8 as consistently as he has the last 3 games.

[Virgil Caine]

During Tech and Wazzu early years, did he have a four star, experienced pro style QB in year one? KJ looking worse than he did at Stanford is a big red flag for me. I sure hope this works out because the program is losing a lot of talent to switch systems and fit Leach?s quirks.

[Maverick91]

Yes. Prepare to be the most hated team by MSESPN

At least we are getting press.

[KB21]

During Tech and Wazzu early years, did he have a four star, experienced pro style QB in year one? KJ looking worse than he did at Stanford is a big red flag for me. I sure hope this works out because the program is losing a lot of talent to switch systems and fit Leach?s quirks.

KJ's issue is physical. It's not coaching. He had that shoulder issue last year that he chose to not have surgery to correct. I don't know exactly what the shoulder issue was, but the ball is simply not coming out of his hand well.

[Cowbell]

During Tech and Wazzu early years, did he have a four star, experienced pro style QB in year one? KJ looking worse than he did at Stanford is a big red flag for me. I sure hope this works out because the program is losing a lot of talent to switch systems and fit Leach?s quirks.
Huge red flag to me too as it shows that he is not used to these kind of defenses either. He played much better at Stanford. Leach did bring this guy in for a reason and so far it shows that Leach miscalculated somewhere.

[Cowbell]

KJ's issue is physical. It's not coaching. He had that shoulder issue last year that he chose to not have surgery to correct. I don't know exactly what the shoulder issue was, but the ball is simply not coming out of his hand well.

He is also making very poor decisions. He is mentally struggling out there.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

As it's been stated on here a number of times it's not 5 blocking 3. Our tackles are going one-on-one with SEC defensive ends and they are consistently losing.
Mullen's offense often covered up the fact that we did not have top level SEC offensive tackles. I'm not sure we can recruit the tackles we need to consistently pass block SEC defensive ends one-on-one when the ends know we are throwing the ball. There aren't many of those type tackles available.
If Leach can make this happen without changing his offense then more power to him but it looks like he may have to change things up a little. Time will tell. We don't really have a choice but to sit back and see what happens.

The splits may be a problem. However, you're stating it's 1-1 on the outside and 3-1 on the inside... yet almost half the pressures come from the inside. So clearly the problem isn't just with Eiland/Johnson or the splits being too wide to help the DE. It's some combo of coaching, scheme, and talent. We blow a ton of assignments so it's clear coaching is a big part of it. When the correct OL consistently gets hands on the correct defender, then we can find out more about talent or scheme. I will say the run blocking scheme has very little variety and that makes it easy for defenses to beat it.

The splits inside aren't wide anymore; Leach has already shown he's willing to adjust at least that much. If he's willing to do it on the interior, I'd think he's willing to do it for the tackles if he thought they needed the help.

[preachermatt83]

The 8 man zone does not "take away the mesh play". if the 5 OL block the 3 DL, there is time for all 5 in the pattern to sit in the holes of the zone. So far, out WR have either not sat in the zone holes, or the QB has not has time due to an OL whiffing on a block. (Sharpe did it 2-3 times with a man HEAD UP on him, that's why we looked better with smith playing, he blocked the guy in front of him)

Read this link
https://www.cougcenter.com/2013/4/10/4120598/air-raid-playbook-the-mesh

Mesh vs zone
https://www.cougcenter.com/2013/4/10/4120598/air-raid-playbook-the-mesh

Exactly!!!!!