Another one bites the dust

[BuckyIsAB****]

And another one gone and another one gone another one bites the dust

[KOdawg1]

Posting vague and cryptic shit should be a bannable offense.

If you have info, spill it.

[HailStateSZN19]

At least give a hint lol. I’m assuming it’s on offense... can you give position?

[Dawgology]

Posting vague and cryptic shit should be a bannable offense.

If you have info, spill it.

Exactly! Let me try:

Something has happened. With an athletic team at our university.

[HailStateSZN19]

C’mon Buck lol......

[msu15]

And another one gone and another one gone another one bites the dust

Is his number a single digit?

[Cowbell]

Is his number a single digit?

And rhyme with state

[ShotgunDawg]

https://media2.giphy.com/media/4PUjcUBXIzQYfI8iVa/giphy.gif
https://media.tenor.com/images/ef194fe362921c1d0dcf9b23d8a4ca69/tenor.gif
https://media3.giphy.com/media/l2ayD8u3gtpMm04GPC/giphy.gif

[Cowbell]

I just want to know if will is starting Saturday

[vindastra]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/iAYupOdWXQy5a4nVGk/200.gif

[confucius say]

Kylin is official

[Todd4State]

I just want to know if will is starting Saturday

I suspect Costello will start. I personally want Rogers to start.

[Homedawg]

Kylin is official

Considering he was told to clean out his locker 2 weeks ago and then didn't do what he needed to do shortly thereafter, well the writing was on the wall...

[Homedawg]

I suspect Costello will start. I personally want Rogers to start.

It's obvious that Costello is better in practice. Otherwise Rogers would have been the starter.... they just want to win games. They aren't playing guys they think are worse on purpose...

[parabrave]

Posting vague and cryptic shit should be a bannable offense.

If you have info, spill it.

I second the motion.

[HoopsDawg]

It's obvious that Costello is better in practice. Otherwise Rogers would have been the starter.... they just want to win games. They aren't playing guys they think are worse on purpose...

Costello is much better in practice. Our problem is scheme first, o-line 2nd, WR 3rd, and QB 4th.

[ShotgunDawg]

It's obvious that Costello is better in practice. Otherwise Rogers would have been the starter.... they just want to win games. They aren't playing guys they think are worse on purpose...

Which is odd that Costello is better in the practice when Will obviously goes through progressions much quicker.

Does Costello just freeze up in games?

[Hambone]

So this “another bites the dust”

Is it Kylin you are referring to? If so, then who was the first one, since this is “another one”

[Todd4State]

It's obvious that Costello is better in practice. Otherwise Rogers would have been the starter.... they just want to win games. They aren't playing guys they think are worse on purpose...

I don't doubt that. But the issue is also- well...one locks up in games and the other doesn't. At some point game performance has to come into play.

It's kind of like a choir that has a soloist that has unworldly talent but also has massive stage fright. Yeah- he may be better than everyone else and can perform better in practice when no one is there...but if he absolutely freaks out when the lights come on and the second best guy doesn't you have to go with the guy that can do the job better when the lights are on.

What I think will happen- I have no idea and we still have almost a full week of practice left so things can change so this is pure conjecture on my part- he will start Costello again. But I think he will plan on playing Rogers too. And just be like hey, whoever is running the team better is going to play. We're going to lose anyway no matter what. Might as well try to figure some things out.

And I also think in this instance Rogers being sick hurt him and us a little because it put him behind somewhat. We may have been able to start this process after Arkansas otherwise.

[Todd4State]

Which is odd that Costello is better in the practice when Will obviously goes through progressions much quicker.

Does Costello just freeze up in games?

I think that's what is happening. I don't think he's hurt. I think he is tentative. And I think he is scared of getting hurt. He had a really bad leg injury last year that ended his season last year. Which is why I think he is very reluctant to scramble. And who knows what else he is thinking about up in his head? I think he's just totally cluttered up there and MSU needs to send him to a sports psychologist. I would have done that after UK honestly.

[hp22]

[QUOTE=Todd4State;1280927]I think that's what is happening. I don't think he's hurt. I think he is tentative. /QUOTE]

I think the game is moving too fast. He dropped 3 snaps that hit him in the numbers. He was looking downfield before the ball got to him just as a receiver looks to run before catching it.

[FISHDAWG]

So this ?another bites the dust?

Is it Kylin you are referring to? If so, then who was the first one, since this is ?another one?

I agree he needs to spill it .... we already have a Bert Stare - we don't need another one

[ShotgunDawg]

https://dbukjj6eu5tsf.cloudfront.net/sidearm.sites/msstate.sidearmsports.com/images/2018/10/10/Mayden.jpg

[KOdawg1]

Mayden. Best of luck to him.

[Irondawg]

He’s a guy I would be curious to see play. Every camp people would talk about how good his arm was but he was never seriously ever talked about as an option under either regime.

Hope he finds a nice landing spot and does well but the qb room is going to be really green next year

[ShotgunDawg]

He’s a guy I would be curious to see play. Every camp people would talk about how good his arm was but he was never seriously ever talked about as an option under either regime.

Hope he finds a nice landing spot and does well but the qb room is going to be really green next year

He wasn't any good. It was easy to see.

We have people that cover that MSU that will always speak positively about a player and we have fans that will latch on to the slightest positive comment and hold on for dear life

[RezDog7]

Nick Pendley gone too.

[ShotgunDawg]

Nick Pendley gone too.

It is what it is. In the end, the quicker Leach can get his guys in here, the quicker we'll be good.

[bluelightstar]

It is what it is. In the end, the quicker Leach can get his guys in here, the quicker we'll be good.

Or the quicker this "needs his players" excuse can go away, and we see what we've got.

[Johnson85]

Nick Pendley gone too.

Surprised to see a RS freshman that will still have four years to play after this year give up. Is it that obvious already that he won't see playing time?

[ShotgunDawg]

Or the quicker this "needs his players" excuse can go away, and we see what we've got.

Very true. Either way, the quicker we can turn over this roster, the better

[ShotgunDawg]

We need a sticky thread at the top labeled " The Purge"

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

Reports that Pendley ?had? to leave.

[Medic601]

The way I look at it... we are going to lose some guys, some we hate to see go and some that can’t leave quick enough... especially with the new NCAA transfer rule this year. With that said, I feel like that will give Leach the chance to bring some guys in that are HIS guys to fill some holes we have. So I think some of this could be a diamond is disguise.

[RezDog7]

Surprised to see a RS freshman that will still have four years to play after this year give up. Is it that obvious already that he won't see playing time?

I'm no insider but I think he was recruited to run block, not pass block. I'm sure we will see more transfers like this. Hate to see it, but it's best for everyone involved. And like blue said, the sooner we can see if this experiment will work, the better.

[confucius say]

Gonna need several more to leave if we are going to be at 85 schollies for 2021. With 25 new guys coming in and nobody currently on the team losing eligibility, guys will have to leave

[Cowbell]

He wasn't any good. It was easy to see.

This is a BS post Gun - you have zero insight into our players and are just making stuff up that is harmful. More than likely, he didn't fit this scheme. Maybe he isn't good, but you have nothing to back that up with.

[Captain Falcon]

I'm sure these won't be the last transfers. Some of this was inevitable when we hired Leach, COVID just delayed the process for several guys.

[Medic601]

The way I feel... Mayden is a hell of a quarterback but not in our scheme. I hate he didn’t work out with the types of offense we ran Bc I think he will really put up some numbers but I don’t see it so much in the SEC. I see him more of a C-USA quarterback... I think he would light C-USA up. Hell, I bet Freeze could do some damage with him at Liberty also.

[Jack Lambert]

We have more 4 star qb's transfer out than a lot of school sign.

[Prentis]

Personally, I don't think Mayden got a chance to show his talents. He was a highly ranked qb coming from a spread offense in Texas where he put up very impressive numbers. There's no way he could have been worse than Costello stage frightened ass. How is it "easy to see" he's no good when he didn't even get a decent chance to actually show it? I hope he finds the right place and scheme for his talents.

[Cowbell]

Personally, I don't think Mayden got a chance to show his talents. He was a highly ranked qb coming from a spread offense in Texas where he put up very impressive numbers. There's no way he could have been worse than Costello stage frightened ass. How is it "easy to see" he's no good when he didn't even get a decent chance to actually show it? I hope he finds the right place and scheme for his talents.

I agree

[StateDawg44]

Personally, I don't think Mayden got a chance to show his talents. He was a highly ranked qb coming from a spread offense in Texas where he put up very impressive numbers. There's no way he could have been worse than Costello stage frightened ass. How is it "easy to see" he's no good when he didn't even get a decent chance to actually show it? I hope he finds the right place and scheme for his talents.

Clearly, his mechanics are off. Just doesn't have that twitch*****

[Irondawg]

Something must be up with Pendley as I thought he looked ok when forced into duty last year and honestly thought he had a good shot at being our C this year. That said he might be a guy that’s a much better run blocker or maybe something else was going on

ETA - sounds like after reading Paul’s stuff that Pendley didn’t have a choice

[ZedFedder]

Something must be up with Pendley as I thought he looked ok when forced into duty last year and honestly thought he had a good shot at being our C this year. That said he might be a guy that’s a much better run blocker or maybe something else was going on

ETA - sounds like after reading Paul’s stuff that Pendley didn’t have a choice

Was he not good enough or discipline related?

[ShotgunDawg]

Was he not good enough or discipline related?

Discipline

[ZedFedder]

Discipline

We will see how it all works in the end, but Leach is not playing. I guess this may be more of an indictment on Moorhead.

[RezDog7]

Sounds like there are more to come...very soon.

[ShotgunDawg]

We will see how it all works in the end, but Leach is not playing. I guess this may be more of an indictment on Moorhead.

True. Not sure this was Leach’s decision though

[ShotgunDawg]

Sounds like there are more to come...very soon.

There should be. We need space for better players. Just look through the roster and find any non FR that has a FR playing over them

[Bothrops]

Costello is much better in practice.

Then we must not be practicing right

[parabrave]

It is what it is. In the end, the quicker Leach can get his guys in here, the quicker we'll be good.

I thought that was Tommy Stevens.

[Brahmabull]

Some of you guys are amazing. Do you really think a college football coaching staff in the SEC watches all of their QBs in practice leading up to the season and during the season and then doesn't play the QB that they think gives them the best chance to win based on their performances in practice????? Mayden, Shrader, Rogers, Costello all got reps under the new staff. Based on those reps, the staff determined that Costello was 1, Rogers 2, and Mayden 3. IF Rogers were performing better in practice now, he would be the starter!!! IF Mayden had performed better in practice he would have played!!! SEC Coaches are in the business of winning football games. This isn't pee wee or junior high football were the coach's son gets the QB job or the kiss up parent's kid plays over the better player. ITS THE F_CKING SEC!!! Jeez!!

[NCDawg]

Which is odd that Costello is better in the practice when Will obviously goes through progressions much quicker.

Does Costello just freeze up in games?

I think if Costello has plenty of time to throw and doesn't have to be concerned with running, he can be pretty good. It is apparent though that he does not want to run.

[ShotgunDawg]

I think if Costello has plenty of time to throw and doesn't have to be concerned with running, he can be pretty good. It is apparent though that he does not want to run.

His lack of time to throw the ball though is a direct result of his slow progress through his reads. Also, he doesn't have quick enough feet to run.

[FISHDAWG]

Some of you guys are amazing. Do you really think a college football coaching staff in the SEC watches all of their QBs in practice leading up to the season and during the season and then doesn't play the QB that they think gives them the best chance to win based on their performances in practice????? Mayden, Shrader, Rogers, Costello all got reps under the new staff. Based on those reps, the staff determined that Costello was 1, Rogers 2, and Mayden 3. IF Rogers were performing better in practice now, he would be the starter!!! IF Mayden had performed better in practice he would have played!!! SEC Coaches are in the business of winning football games. This isn't pee wee or junior high football were the coach's son gets the QB job or the kiss up parent's kid plays over the better player. ITS THE F_CKING SEC!!! Jeez!!

and we are either going to start a PAC-12 QB or a Freshman ..... Schrader wasn't given much of a chance IMO and now two 4-star QB's are in the portal that had several SEC offers

https://twitter.com/mstatesports/status/1321092834569715713

[Homedawg]

Personally, I don't think Mayden got a chance to show his talents. He was a highly ranked qb coming from a spread offense in Texas where he put up very impressive numbers. There's no way he could have been worse than Costello stage frightened ass. How is it "easy to see" he's no good when he didn't even get a decent chance to actually show it? I hope he finds the right place and scheme for his talents.

He got to go to practice everyday. He had his shot. Wasn't a qb for this offense.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Then we must not be practicing right

+1, the point of practice is to get people ready for a GAME and evaluate how good the players will be in a GAME. We aren't simulating a game effectively if there's such a huge disconnect.

Same for the OL. I REFUSE to believe Arnett is throwing every blitz stunt and twist he can think of at these guys and they regularly pick it up in practice, only for them to all forget what the F to do vs a 4 man rush when the game comes on. 1 player gets the yips under pressure? Sure. Every interior OL having no idea what their assignments are? I can't believe they ever truly knew them. Yet in the scrimmages we heard the OL picked up everything Arnett threw at them. It makes no sense to me

[ShotgunDawg]

and we are either going to start a PAC-12 QB or a Freshman ..... Schrader wasn't given much of a chance IMO and now two 4-star QB's are in the portal that had several SEC offers

https://twitter.com/mstatesports/status/1321092834569715713

So you think the coaches aren't trying to win?

Because to believe they wouldn't our best QB is believing that they aren't trying to win

[Brahmabull]

So now we are suggesting the Mike Leach doesn't know how to run practices to best teach "his" system???!!!!!!

Bottom line is Leach is going to run his system with what we have even if we don't really have the right pieces for his system. We are just going to have to accept that we are in for a couple of rough seasons until he gets the right pieces in to execute his system. Look at his previous stops and you will see the first couple of years are tough.

We have too much $$ invested. We are not making a change and Leach isn't going to change.

[FISHDAWG]

So you think the coaches aren't trying to win?

Because to believe they wouldn't our best QB is believing that they aren't trying to win

I'm simply stating an observation .... not a speculation

[bluelightstar]

So now we are suggesting the Mike Leach doesn't know how to run practices to best teach "his" system???!!!!!!

Bottom line is Leach is going to run his system with what we have even if we don't really have the right pieces for his system. We are just going to have to accept that we are in for a couple of rough seasons until he gets the right pieces in to execute his system. Look at his previous stops and you will see the first couple of years are tough.

We have too much $$ invested. We are not making a change and Leach isn't going to change.

Why do we think it?s okay for Mike Leach not to change? The best coaches adapt. Those that get stuck in their ways end up like Les Miles.

[Brahmabull]

Why do we think it?s okay for Mike Leach not to change? The best coaches adapt. Those that get stuck in their ways end up like Les Miles.

I didn't say it was ok, but we hired him knowing who he is. His record shows that he runs his system. He's not going to change. We knew that when we hired him, and if we didn't then that's not on Leach. It's on others.

Obliviously, what Leach believes makes him one of the best coaches is how he runs his system. Not running someone else's system. We paid for Leach. Now we are just going to have to wait for him to get his system and guys needed to run it in play.

[msu15]

Gonna need several more to leave if we are going to be at 85 schollies for 2021. With 25 new guys coming in and nobody currently on the team losing eligibility, guys will have to leave

We only have 83 scholarships for 2021.

[Cowbell]

Why do we think it?s okay for Mike Leach not to change? The best coaches adapt. Those that get stuck in their ways end up like Les Miles.

This is how I feel. No coach ever has been able to sustain success without adapting. Prime example is Saban. He made changes at the same school in the same conference AFTER winning multiple titles. And that's how he won another one soon after.
I honestly thought Leach would adapt and maybe he will, but so far indicators say that he won't.

[RezDog7]

This is how I feel. No coach ever has been able to sustain success without adapting. Prime example is Saban. He made changes at the same school in the same conference AFTER winning multiple titles. And that's how he won another one soon after.
I honestly thought Leach would adapt and maybe he will, but so far indicators say that he won't.

This all day. I don't give a damn if your system has worked in the past. If you're not adapting and getting better, you're getting worse.

[PendingTransaction]

My hope was that Leach would bring his system, BUT adjust it to compete in the SEC. There's a reason that we had seen the "pure" air raid in the SEC. While Leach is perhaps the foremost authority on the air raid, he's not the only coach that has a deep understanding of it. The SEC has and has had many great offensive minds over the past 20 years and no a single one thought that the classic air raid gave them a competitive advantage. So either Leach is the revolutionary coach of the SEC or all the other offensive minds saw disadvantages in the air raid.

[preachermatt83]

Costello is much better in practice. Our problem is scheme first, o-line 2nd, WR 3rd, and QB 4th.

Yea. It?s scheme. Bc this scheme has never worked before. Give me a break.

[Cowbell]

My hope was that Leach would bring his system, BUT adjust it to compete in the SEC. There's a reason that we had seen the "pure" air raid in the SEC. While Leach is perhaps the foremost authority on the air raid, he's not the only coach that has a deep understanding of it. The SEC has and has had many great offensive minds over the past 20 years and no a single one thought that the classic air raid gave them a competitive advantage. So either Leach is the revolutionary coach of the SEC or all the other offensive minds saw disadvantages in the air raid.

This was my hope as well. I honestly figured, for as smart as Leach is, he already had a plan on how to make it fit. Hopefully he does.

[Cowbell]

Yea. It?s scheme. Bc this scheme has never worked before. Give me a break.

You must not have been hanging out with C34 lately.

[HoopsDawg]

Yea. It?s scheme. Bc this scheme has never worked before. Give me a break.

Scheme works great against man coverage. Not so great vs a 3 man line and 8 men dropping into zone coverage. Especially with SEC athletes. Adapt or die.

[Brahmabull]

Saban's system or scheme is on the defensive side of the ball. He has not really adapted or changed much there. Still loves zone coverage in the backend.

[ShotgunDawg]

Scheme works great against man coverage. Not so great vs a 3 man line and 8 men dropping into zone coverage. Especially with SEC athletes. Adapt or die.

Except it's worked against D1 athletes for 20 years. You could make the SEC case if the scoring dropped from 35 points per game to 28. But to not be able to get in the endzone isn't scheme, it's execution.

[FISHDAWG]

Except it's worked against D1 athletes for 20 years. You could make the SEC case if the scoring dropped from 35 points per game to 28. But to not be able to get in the endzone isn't scheme, it's execution.

perfect execution will not work if you're trying a QB sneak from the 10 yard line .... it's scheme. I'm sure there's a reason Dabo, Saban, Urban Meyer and other great coaches don't use this in it's purest form.

[HoopsDawg]

Except it's worked against D1 athletes for 20 years. You could make the SEC case if the scoring dropped from 35 points per game to 28. But to not be able to get in the endzone isn't scheme, it's execution.

Joe Lee's scheme's worked great for a long time too. Number 1 in the country vs D1 athletes in fact. Adapt or die.

[HoopsDawg]

perfect execution will not work if you're trying a QB sneak from the 10 yard line .... it's scheme. I'm sure there's a reason Dabo, Saban, Urban Meyer and other great coaches don't use this in it's purest form.

To take this a step further, not even Mike Leach's disciples run the same Air Raid they learned under Leach. See Kliff Kingsbury, Art Briles, Dana Holgerson and many others.

You do not attack a 3-8 with Air Raid. As Lane Kiffin said, you run them out of it.

[Johnson85]

Why do we think it?s okay for Mike Leach not to change? The best coaches adapt. Those that get stuck in their ways end up like Les Miles.

It's not that it's ok to not change, it's just it's hard to change a successful system based on 3 games where players are not doing the basics.

The one thing that it appears we need to adjust on is OL blocking. We are consistently having 5 beat by 3. Maybe that's primarily a talent issue where our OL are just not recruited for nor suited for this type of blocking, but if that's the case, you don't just say "well this year is going to suck". You have to do something to compensate for the lack of talent besides waiting for new talent. But it's hard to know what needs to be adjusted overlal when the QB and WRs aren't on the same page.

[ShotgunDawg]

perfect execution will not work if you're trying a QB sneak from the 10 yard line .... it's scheme. I'm sure there's a reason Dabo, Saban, Urban Meyer and other great coaches don't use this in it's purest form.

Yes, but scheme issues don't go from working to zero. The SEC competition should make a scheme that has worked for 20 year "less effective" rather than "ineffective"

Other conferences don't have players on peg legs.

[HoopsDawg]

Yes, but scheme issues don't go from working to zero. The SEC competition should make a scheme that has worked for 20 year "less effective" rather than "ineffective"

Other conferences don't have players on peg legs.

We will score a few points vs Vandy and Ole Miss. Then you can come on the board and tell everyone how great the scheme is and that we are turning the corner.

[RezDog7]

To take this a step further, not even Mike Leach's disciples run the same Air Raid they learned under Leach. See Kliff Kingsbury, Art Briles, Dana Holgerson and many others.

You do not attack a 3-8 with Air Raid. As Lane Kiffin said, you run them out of it.

It will be very interesting to see if there are any adjustments. If not, we will be hiring a new coach two years from now.

[HancockCountyDog]

Yes, but scheme issues don't go from working to zero. The SEC competition should make a scheme that has worked for 20 year "less effective" rather than "ineffective"

Other conferences don't have players on peg legs.

Oklahoma ran the triple option for years - until it simply didn't work anymore, the athletes were too good, and people knew how to beat it. So yeah schemes that have worked for 20 years, go from worked for years to ineffective.

Teams didn't adopt the 3-8 defense the way we have seen the last 3 weeks. Go back and watch 2018 Wazzu games on youtube, teams still attacked Wazzu and Leach ate them up. Also, the one on one tackling is a joke.

Can we still score against the 3-8, sure - we can occasionally still score. The problem is that teams know what we are running and they know what to do to stop it. We have to adapt. Every great coach does adapt. Hell Saban ran hurry up less than 3 seasons after saying the hurry up was a damn safety issue for players.

Now, maybe Leach is the one exception to the rule and he can bend the SEC to his will, I sure hope he is right and we are wrong.

[ShotgunDawg]

Oklahoma ran the triple option for years - until it simply didn't work anymore, the athletes were too good, and people knew how to beat it. So yeah schemes that have worked for 20 years, go from worked for years to ineffective.

Teams didn't adopt the 3-8 defense the way we have seen the last 3 weeks. Go back and watch 2018 Wazzu games on youtube, teams still attacked Wazzu and Leach ate them up. Also, the one on one tackling is a joke.

Can we still score against the 3-8, sure - we can occasionally still score. The problem is that teams know what we are running and they know what to do to stop it. We have to adapt. Every great coach does adapt. Hell Saban ran hurry up less than 3 seasons after saying the hurry up was a damn safety issue for players.

Now, maybe Leach is the one exception to the rule and he can bend the SEC to his will, I sure hope he is right and we are wrong.

We'll see.

I'm not saying your wrong and to reach our ceiling under Leach we will probably have to evolve and make adjustments, but I just refuse to believe at this point in time that the majority of our problem is scheme.

That explanation just doesn't make any sense when looking at Leach's track record. Oh, and the triple option has always worked and still works. Has nothing to do with Oklahoma moving on from it. Oklahoma likely moved on from the triple option due to the inability to recruit to it, not because it didn't work.

I just believe it's extremely faulty logic and a terrible bet to believe that Leach's offense all the sudden doesn't work anymore. In my mind, that just doesn't make a bit of sense

Good offenses don't stop working. The wishbone, triple option, I formation, etc would all work today if properly taught, but coaches much choose an offense that they can recruit to that also works.

[ShotgunDawg]

We will score a few points vs Vandy and Ole Miss. Then you can come on the board and tell everyone how great the scheme is and that we are turning the corner.

And I'm sure when we do start clicking on offense you'll tell that Leach made some obscure minor adjustment that accounts for the reason the offense started working

[HancockCountyDog]

Good offenses don't stop working. The wishbone, triple option, I formation, etc would all work today if properly taught, but coaches much choose an offense that they can recruit to that also works.

The problem is that the evidence we have says differently. Defenses are too well coached and players are too damn athletic for these offenses to work effectively long term. Now some coaches like Paul Johnson simply refused to make any changes, and he lost at Ga Tech to a coach like Cutcliffe who was your classic I formation coach. Cutcliffe adapted and changed his entire offense to fit an athletic QB.

I was surprised he adapted, but good for him.

Good coaching can't overcome a scheme that the other team has figured out. There have been plenty of good coaches that didn't stop being good coaches who offensive schemes were figured out. It happens - just ask Nebraska.

[ShotgunDawg]

The problem is that the evidence we have says differently. Defenses are too well coached and players are too damn athletic for these offenses to work effectively long term. Now some coaches like Paul Johnson simply refused to make any changes, and he lost at Ga Tech to a coach like Cutcliffe who was your classic I formation coach. Cutcliffe adapted and changed his entire offense to fit an athletic QB.

I was surprised he adapted, but good for him.

Good coaching can't overcome a scheme that the other team has figured out. There have been plenty of good coaches that didn't stop being good coaches who offensive schemes were figured out. It happens - just ask Nebraska.

I don't agree with this. Paul Johnson was really good at GT for a long time. Just struggled to recruit to that system.

Good schemes don't get figured out. Not sure there is an example of that.

[bulldawg28]

Unless Leach gets a Qb that can and will gain yards with their legs this offense is middle tier at best.

[Todd4State]

People keep mentioning Saban changing his offensive philosophy- and he's a defensive coach. And his defensive philosophy has changed about as much as Leach's offense has the past 20 years.

Maybe our fans will be happy with a CEO coach that will constantly change coordinators to "fit" our personnel. Doesn't seem very sustainable to me.

Or maybe we can find fans that realize that sometimes things take a year or two to adapt. Very unlikely.

[Cowbell]

Saban's system or scheme is on the defensive side of the ball. He has not really adapted or changed much there. Still loves zone coverage in the backend.
He completely changed his offense - even started recruiting different types of players to fit a more passing attack. He also had to adjust the type of defensive players he was recruiting to better defend the passing offenses.

[Cowbell]

Unless Leach gets a Qb that can and will gain yards with their legs this offense is middle tier at best.
This is correct. This is the reason the Arizona is having success right now with Kyle Murray who is an average passer.

[Turfdawg67]

I don't agree with this. Paul Johnson was really good at GT for a long time. Just struggled to recruit to that system.

Good schemes don't get figured out. Not sure there is an example of that.

Yep. Lots of teams would still run the wishbone and triple option if they could recruit the right players.***

[Cowbell]

And I'm sure when we do start clicking on offense you'll tell that Leach made some obscure minor adjustment that accounts for the reason the offense started working

He will have to make adjustments to consistently win.

[ShotgunDawg]

People keep mentioning Saban changing his offensive philosophy- and he's a defensive coach. And his defensive philosophy has changed about as much as Leach's offense has the past 20 years.

Maybe our fans will be happy with a CEO coach that will constantly change coordinators to "fit" our personnel. Doesn't seem very sustainable to me.

Or maybe we can find fans that realize that sometimes things take a year or two to adapt. Very unlikely.

This!!!

[Extendedcab]

He completely changed his offense - even started recruiting different types of players to fit a more passing attack. He also had to adjust the type of defensive players he was recruiting to better defend the passing offenses.

Saban was quoted in a sports article this/last week saying that college football is changing and he does not like it. Saban likes a team with a dominating defense, that way his offense does not have to be perfect. This is the type of teams he has built in his HC tenure. Today, the change is to have high powered offenses that score tons of points and mediocre defenses. I "think" Leach is in the high powered offense mindset, assuming we can get it off of the ground, and out defense I think is better than average - not bad!

[Cowbell]

Saban was quoted in a sports article this/last week saying that college football is changing and he does not like it. Saban likes a team with a dominating defense, that way his offense does not have to be perfect. This is the type of teams he has built in his HC tenure. Today, the change is to have high powered offenses that score tons of points and mediocre defenses. I "think" Leach is in the high powered offense mindset, assuming we can get it off of the ground, and out defense I think is better than average - not bad!
Exactly my point. Saban makes subtle changes to his defense and always will.

[ShotgunDawg]

He will have to make adjustments to consistently win.

Ok.

[Dawgology]

All things being equal a “scheme” doesn’t win or lose a game. Coaching and athletes win games. As an offensive coach if I have good athletes and can coach them to where they know their assignments and execute I will win games regardless of scheme. Same thing goes for defense. When two equally well coached teams meet then the one with better athletes, better luck, or a combination of the two will win. It’s really that simple. Regardless of scheme or philosophy.

Right now we don’t have the athletes that can be execute their assignments so we are losing.

[Turfdawg67]

All things being equal a “scheme” doesn’t win or lose a game. Coaching and athletes win games. As an offensive coach if I have good athletes and can coach them to where they know their assignments and execute I will win games regardless of scheme. Same thing goes for defense. When two equally well coached teams meet then the one with better athletes, better luck, or a combination of the two will win. It’s really that simple. Regardless of scheme or philosophy.

Right now we don’t have the athletes that can be execute their assignments so we are losing.

What do you do when your starting and backup QBs throw 6 INTs?? Seriously... is that on Leach? KT? I mean CML can stress not to throw it to offending players, but there's so much he can do.

My biggest concern is that after 3 HORRENDOUS games, Leach is gonna trot KJ back out there. THAT is on the head coach!

[HoopsDawg]

All things being equal a “scheme” doesn’t win or lose a game. Coaching and athletes win games. As an offensive coach if I have good athletes and can coach them to where they know their assignments and execute I will win games regardless of scheme. Same thing goes for defense. When two equally well coached teams meet then the one with better athletes, better luck, or a combination of the two will win. It’s really that simple. Regardless of scheme or philosophy.

Right now we don’t have the athletes that can be execute their assignments so we are losing.

A lot you guys still don't get it. Don't worry, that puts you in the same boat as Mike Leach. And he's making 5 million a year.

Jackie used to say it best, coaches put players in position to win games. Then it's up to the players. Mike Leach is not putting our offense in position to be successful vs the 3-8. Period, end of story, no other narratives matter or are correct.

[BuckyIsAB****]

There is another one coming who has not been mentioned..also, you cannot hire mike leach then blatantly question mike leach. The 3-8 is not his death sentence if it was he would have been done in 98. He has found his trigger man, and once he finds his trigger man he wins.

I wil say this as well, we may not win a game but we will be in shape and we won?t have me guys on the team

[BuckyIsAB****]

This!!!

Saban changed from an odd front 2 gap scheme with big LBs to an even front quarters match scheme to match the offenses. He has adapted so has Kirby. You will see them in odd some he calls it his base defense but it?s not nearly as much as it was in 2007 -2010

[bluelightstar]

There is another one coming who has not been mentioned..also, you cannot hire mike leach then blatantly question mike leach. The 3-8 is not his death sentence if it was he would have been done in 98. He has found his trigger man, and once he finds his trigger man he wins.

I wil say this as well, we may not win a game but we will be in shape and we won?t have me guys on the team

You can question anyone who?s making $5 million a year to coach a game. By the way, we didn?t hire him just to have guys in shape and not have ?me guys on the team.? I will never understand this coach worship that some people engage in.

[ShotgunDawg]

Saban changed from an odd front 2 gap scheme with big LBs to an even front quarters match scheme to match the offenses. He has adapted so has Kirby. You will see them in odd some he calls it his base defense but it?s not nearly as much as it was in 2007 -2010

Defense has to react. Defenses will always have to adjust. Different sport on that side of the ball

[Cowbell]

All things being equal a ?scheme? doesn?t win or lose a game. Coaching and athletes win games. As an offensive coach if I have good athletes and can coach them to where they know their assignments and execute I will win games regardless of scheme. Same thing goes for defense. When two equally well coached teams meet then the one with better athletes, better luck, or a combination of the two will win. It?s really that simple. Regardless of scheme or philosophy.

Right now we don?t have the athletes that can be execute their assignments so we are losing.

Why are teams that never run a 3/8 defense, doing so against us????

[ShotgunDawg]

You can question anyone who?s making $5 million a year to coach a game. By the way, we didn?t hire him just to have guys in shape and not have ?me guys on the team.? I will never understand this coach worship that some people engage in.

No one is coach worshipping, but the previous coach left the team in shit shape and it's going to take a minute to get it fixed. Anyone with a brain can see that.

And with 20 years of successful head coaching, Leach deserves more than 4 games

[bluelightstar]

No one is coach worshipping, but the previous coach left the team in shit shape and it's going to take a minute to get it fixed. Anyone with a brain can see that.

And with 20 years of successful head coaching, Leach deserves more than 4 games

I don?t want Leach fired after 4 games either. But I just do not agree that it?s as simple as saying ?it worked for 20 years, no adjustments needed.? This is a different league with different coaches and more athletic players. Guess what, he?s never had a game in those 20 years without an offensive touchdown. Now he has.

[Mobile Bay]

I don?t want Leach fired after 4 games either. But I just do not agree that it?s as simple as saying ?it worked for 20 years, no adjustments needed.? This is a different league with different coaches and more athletic players. Guess what, he?s never had a game in those 20 years without an offensive touchdown. Now he has.

He is adjusting. Dumping poor players and locker room poison. Plus Schrader who just isn't a fit. I wish him all the best, he did all that could have been asked.

[Bothrops]

You have to have the right qb in the air raid to make it work. The right arm with natural born instincts and athletic ability. Until you have that, you will have to add variations to the scheme that are easy to execute, but it won't work as consistently as the correct quarterback, doing only air raid things.

[Percho]

He completely changed his offense - even started recruiting different types of players to fit a more passing attack. He also had to adjust the type of defensive players he was recruiting to better defend the passing offenses.

How would the Leach system look with today's Alabama team? What defense would everybody be running against it?

[Todd4State]

You have to have the right qb in the air raid to make it work. The right arm with natural born instincts and athletic ability. Until you have that, you will have to add variations to the scheme that are easy to execute, but it won't work as consistently as the correct quarterback, doing only air raid things.

I think more than anything you need a QB that is going to make the right decisions to make it work. Leach has had some QB's that put up big numbers that weren't exactly Trevor Lawrence.

[Todd4State]

He is adjusting. Dumping poor players and locker room poison. Plus Schrader who just isn't a fit. I wish him all the best, he did all that could have been asked.

Exactly. I see some people that want him to add read option and stuff like that. He just needs guys that can do what he needs them to do.

[FISHDAWG]

People keep mentioning Saban changing his offensive philosophy- and he's a defensive coach. And his defensive philosophy has changed about as much as Leach's offense has the past 20 years.

Maybe our fans will be happy with a CEO coach that will constantly change coordinators to "fit" our personnel. Doesn't seem very sustainable to me.

Or maybe we can find fans that realize that sometimes things take a year or two to adapt. Very unlikely.

that's right Todd ... Blame the 17'n fans for this abortion that is unfolding in front of us

[Irondawg]

KJ was probably the best fit for typical defenses but who knew he would struggle so much against a zone. Schrader was your zone buster and I still think was the best qb for this year in the system based on how we have seen teams react.

Against normal defenses accuracy is the biggest trait in this offense. However against this 3-8 zone taking what the defense gives you means running the ball and if the qb is taking the ball for 5-10 yards a pop every play then dc can’t stay in that defense.

I honestly don’t think leach thought he would see every team change their defense so much when they play MSU. I also don’t think he thought KJ would have such a hard time against it

[maroonmania]

I didn't say it was ok, but we hired him knowing who he is. His record shows that he runs his system. He's not going to change. We knew that when we hired him, and if we didn't then that's not on Leach. It's on others.

Obliviously, what Leach believes makes him one of the best coaches is how he runs his system. Not running someone else's system. We paid for Leach. Now we are just going to have to wait for him to get his system and guys needed to run it in play.

Up to this point, why should he change? He has never HAD to change because his offense has always been successful both in the Big12 and PAC12. I mean maybe not so much in the Apple Cup but its easy to explain that away as a talent differential when the offense was still good the other 11 games in the PAC12. Now if he can't defeat the rush 3 drop 8 defense IN THE SEC when he gets a full spring practice and some more of his players in here then he will HAVE to adjust or he will be out of a job. I don't think Leach is a guy that takes failure well so I find it hard to believe he won't make some adjustments if it becomes obvious that we can't defeat the drop 8 scheme in the SEC with the way he is currently doing things.

[maroonmania]

We only have 83 scholarships for 2021.

the ghosts of Moorhead's lax culture continue to haunt us.

[Mobile Bay]

that's right Todd ... Blame the 17'n fans for this abortion that is unfolding in front of us

So what s your solution, fire Leach?

Just like Alabama should have fired Saban in 2007?

[maroonmania]

I don't agree with this. Paul Johnson was really good at GT for a long time. Just struggled to recruit to that system.

Good schemes don't get figured out. Not sure there is an example of that.

Yep, he was good enough to make the Orange Bowl and beat one of our best teams ever in that game.

[maroonmania]

Unless Leach wants a Qb that can and will gain yards with their legs this offense is middle tier at best.

FIFY

[Brahmabull]

All I am saying is we hired Mike Leach to be Mike Leach. Will he adapt and make subtle changes? Maybe. But everyone is going to have to be patient and wait for him to get the players (mainly OL) in to run his system. It really doesn't matter what subtle changes he makes right now because at the end of the day, we don't have the OL to do what he does.

Bitching about firing him is a waste of time. We are not firing him anytime soon. It's no different than GT hiring G. Collins and giving him time to turn the roster over from the roster built to run the option to a roster built to be balanced. We are going from a run oriented spread offense to the Air Raid. It's not going to happen in half a year. It's most likely not going to happen for a couple of years.

[maroonmania]

No one is coach worshipping, but the previous coach left the team in shit shape and it's going to take a minute to get it fixed. Anyone with a brain can see that.

And with 20 years of successful head coaching, Leach deserves more than 4 games

Especially when his track record has already shown that his first year or two at a new program has never been all that good. I would at least like to give him a full Spring practice to really ingrain his system with the players before we say he can never be successful here. I don't believe you can just take a brand new group of players and try to install a new system in a shortened Fall camp with a lot of players that don't even fit the system and expect for things to be smooth sailing. I do believe that having things go so well at LSU really blew the expectations of our fans way out of line. No, we shouldn't be as bad as we are on offense, but nobody should just throw out the baby with the bath water only 4 games into the Leach tenure with no Spring.

[FISHDAWG]

So what s your solution, fire Leach?

Just like Alabama should have fired Saban in 2007?

I haven't seen anyone in any thread on this board say Leach should be fired ... I have said as others have that he could make things easier on his current personnel by implementing more run, diversion, misdirection, closing down the line splits, and playing a better QB.... or anything else to slow down a hard charging DL that is just laying their ears back and coming as hard as they can without fear of having to protect an opening / gap against a running play .... the running game we currently have is not much more than a draw or delayed handoff with no lead back blocking and nothing has worked for the last 3 games ... sorry, but when it comes to scoring one touchdown against Arkansas, NO offensive points against Kentucky, and only ONE touchdown against aTm folks are going to get restless .

[Joebob]

Up to this point, why should he change? He has never HAD to change because his offense has always been successful both in the Big12 and PAC12. I mean maybe not so much in the Apple Cup but its easy to explain that away as a talent differential when the offense was still good the other 11 games in the PAC12. Now if he can't defeat the rush 3 drop 8 defense IN THE SEC when he gets a full spring practice and some more of his players in here then he will HAVE to adjust or he will be out of a job. I don't think Leach is a guy that takes failure well so I find it hard to believe he won't make some adjustments if it becomes obvious that we can't defeat the drop 8 scheme in the SEC with the way he is currently doing things.

But it's already obvious that this year's team cannot defeat the drop 8 scheme, so what's he waiting on? Is Leach just going to throw away this whole season because he doesn't have his guys yet? This is what worries me about him. I don't see the point in his stubborness.

[MrCoachKlein]

The only 'tweak' needed to beat the 3-8 zone is oline blocking the 3 with 5. The minute they do that Leach will run them out of it on the ground. The only team that he ever went against that could stop the run in a 3-8 once he got his OL guys in was Washington. Considering the talent gap it will probably be similar to us vs Bama and UGA once we get the OL figured out.

[StateDawg44]

The only 'tweak' needed to beat the 3-8 zone is oline blocking the 3 with 5. The minute they do that Leach will run them out of it on the ground. The only team that he ever went against that could stop the run in a 3-8 once he got his OL guys in was Washington. Considering the talent gap it will probably be similar to us vs Bama and UGA once we get the OL figured out.

So do you agree or disagree that most SEC defenses are on par or better than Washington's?

[MrCoachKlein]

Better: LSU (normally), Bama, Auburn, UGA, FL

The rest are on par or way worse. You're completely missing the point though.

Washington avg recruiting ranking ~19 - 801 points
Wazzu avg recruiting ranking ~69 - 556 points

MSU avg ~23 - 733 points. The only time we'll see a ~250 point talent differential is Bama (985) OSU (973) and UGA (960). Not that 247 rankings are the end all be all but it's a good gauge of talent differences.

My point being: Once the OL figures out how to beat 3 with 5 then the only teams that should be able to run the 3-8 and stop the run would be those 3 above plus Clemson or a few others.

[HoopsDawg]

Better: LSU (normally), Bama, Auburn, UGA, FL

The rest are on par or way worse. You're completely missing the point though.

Washington avg recruiting ranking ~19 - 801 points
Wazzu avg recruiting ranking ~69 - 556 points

MSU avg ~23 - 733 points. The only time we'll see a ~250 point talent differential is Bama (985) OSU (973) and UGA (960). Not that 247 rankings are the end all be all but it's a good gauge of talent differences.

My point being: Once the OL figures out how to beat 3 with 5 then the only teams that should be able to run the 3-8 and stop the run would be those 3 above plus Clemson or a few others.

It's not 5 vs 3 though. The wide splits that Leach still uses ensures 1 on 1 matchups with our tackles vs SEC DE's. And they don't have to account for the run so they can just pin their ears back.

The ball is supposed to come out in under 3 but no one is open in under 3 b/c they have blanketed our 5 receivers with 8 in coverage.

[BuckyIsAB****]

BUMP

[Cowbell]

BUMP
Bucky are any of the players going to speak out and back Leach through all this?

[msu15]

BUMP

Damn is there another one?

[BuckyIsAB****]

Bucky are any of the players going to speak out and back Leach through all this?

I doubt it but that ain?t their job

[Homedawg]

Damn is there another one?

CML basically said there would be more

[Irondawg]

It is their job to back to coach if they believe in him and the program. Like the guy said in Remember the Titans - sometimes you have to let a guy go

I’d feel better seeing some players take that side like we all felt better when some players were clearly mad at Jarrion

[Cowbell]

I doubt it but that ain?t their job

I usually agree with you, but not here. This football team obviously needs leadership.

[PendingTransaction]

It's not 5 vs 3 though. The wide splits that Leach still uses ensures 1 on 1 matchups with our tackles vs SEC DE's. And they don't have to account for the run so they can just pin their ears back.

The ball is supposed to come out in under 3 but no one is open in under 3 b/c they have blanketed our 5 receivers with 8 in coverage.

You understand the OL problem. A "hooking bull," DE in a wide 9 technique will win 9x out of 10. A hard outside step, then back inside... he gets home dang near every time. The OG two yards inside the tackle is in no mans land a cant help.

[MrCoachKlein]

It's not 5 vs 3 though. The wide splits that Leach still uses ensures 1 on 1 matchups with our tackles vs SEC DE's. And they don't have to account for the run so they can just pin their ears back.

The ball is supposed to come out in under 3 but no one is open in under 3 b/c they have blanketed our 5 receivers with 8 in coverage.

They normally do have to account for the run against a Leach offense or he'll hand it off up the middle for 10 yards a pop. They don't this year because we can't run block 3 with 5. The only team that was able to consistently get away with running a 3-8 and stopping Leach from running was Washington. And that was due to the giant talent gap that we will only experience here once a year vs Bama.

[Cowbell]

You understand the OL problem. A "hooking bull," DE in a wide 9 technique will win 9x out of 10. A hard outside step, then back inside... he gets home dang near every time. The OG two yards inside the tackle is in no mans land a cant help.

Yes yes yes!! You could start a thread on this. This is the problem. It's not our talent level. Add into that a stunting linebacker in that wide open gap (that now nobody can get to) and you have a recipe for consistent disaster. The only DC who didn't stop it was the one not willing to adapt. Leach will see a similar fate if he doesn't adapt.

[HoopsDawg]

They normally do have to account for the run against a Leach offense or he'll hand it off up the middle for 10 yards a pop. They don't this year because we can't run block 3 with 5. The only team that was able to consistently get away with running a 3-8 and stopping Leach from running was Washington. And that was due to the giant talent gap that we will only experience here once a year vs Bama.

Don't you think it's strange that a 3 year starter like Dareun Parker all the sudden can't run block. This is Eiland 3rd year to start. Sharp started multiple games last year. Posters on here say we struggle b/c our Oline guys were recruited mainly as run blockers not pass blockers. Now, all of the sudden they can't run block? Don't you think it might be our splits and scheme.

[ShotgunDawg]

Do we expect anymore players to bite the dust today?

[FISHDAWG]

Don't you think it's strange that a 3 year starter like Dareun Parker all the sudden can't run block. This is Eiland 3rd year to start. Sharp started multiple games last year. Posters on here say we struggle b/c our Oline guys were recruited mainly as run blockers not pass blockers. Now, all of the sudden they can't run block? Don't you think it might be our splits and scheme.

Maybe they just forgot how to run block** .... as a former left tackle I always thought it was easier to pass block than to run block but right now our run game is as bland as a jar of Gerber's creamed carrots .... yes, it's splits and scheme

[Cooterpoot]

Don't you think it's strange that a 3 year starter like Dareun Parker all the sudden can't run block. This is Eiland 3rd year to start. Sharp started multiple games last year. Posters on here say we struggle b/c our Oline guys were recruited mainly as run blockers not pass blockers. Now, all of the sudden they can't run block? Don't you think it might be our splits and scheme.

It's learning a new system and having a couple guys that are just too damn slow to block who they're being asked to block. Parker has been the best in the middle. Cross outside. Eiland has never been a good tackle. Sharp has always been limited. I saw these same guys struggle last year or two trying to block. There's a reason we're offering several OL.

[HancockCountyDog]

I watched last year's OL run for the following:

460 yards against UPig
240 yards against A&M
166 yards against AU
265 yards against UK
234 yards against bears
193 yards against Lville
220 yards against KSU
234 yards against USM

Tell me again why a team with mostly returning starters and adding a 5 star OL RS freshman, along with the returning starting RB should not be able to run the ball this year? Are we sure it is the players?

[Percho]

https://www.footballxos.com/wide-line-splits-math-meets-physics/

[Cooterpoot]

I watched last year's OL run for the following:

460 yards against UPig
240 yards against A&M
166 yards against AU
265 yards against UK
234 yards against bears
193 yards against Lville
220 yards against KSU
234 yards against USM

Tell me again why a team with mostly returning starters and adding a 5 star OL RS freshman, along with the returning starting RB should not be able to run the ball this year? Are we sure it is the players?

We return two starters from last year's game one lineup- Eiland & Parker. Only reason others got time was injury and backup time.

[Offshore Dawg]

We return two starters from last year's game one lineup- Eiland & Parker. Only reason others got time was injury and backup time.

you might want to list the number of carries also.

[Mobile Bay]

We return two starters from last year's game one lineup- Eiland & Parker. Only reason others got time was injury and backup time.

I will tell you why our returning RB is not there.

I have one source, only one, but I trust him. He told me at lunch today that Hill told KJ that he was going to kill him.

[FISHDAWG]

I will tell you why our returning RB is not there.

I have one source, only one, but I trust him. He told me at lunch today that Hill told KJ that he was going to kill him.

who does Hill think he is .... a linebacker ? .... If true then this is left-over BS from the JoMo era and he needed to go

[RezDog7]

I will tell you why our returning RB is not there.

I have one source, only one, but I trust him. He told me at lunch today that Hill told KJ that he was going to kill him.

Dang, didn't know KH was playing defensive lineman in the drop 8 scheme.

[Cowbell]

I will tell you why our returning RB is not there.

I have one source, only one, but I trust him. He told me at lunch today that Hill told KJ that he was going to kill him.
This can't be true. He said he was the greatest QB in the country after the LSU game***

[Mobile Bay]

who does Hill think he is .... a linebacker ? .... If true then this is left-over BS from the JoMo era and he needed to go

That's almost exactly what I said to my guy. He is offensive Willie Gay

[Cowbell]

Why are our QBs always taking it on the chin... no pun intended

[FISHDAWG]

Why are our QBs always taking it on the chin... no pun intended

all Hill had to do was wait until we played Bama

[Hot Rock]

Yes yes yes!! You could start a thread on this. This is the problem. It's not our talent level. Add into that a stunting linebacker in that wide open gap (that now nobody can get to) and you have a recipe for consistent disaster. The only DC who didn't stop it was the one not willing to adapt. Leach will see a similar fate if he doesn't adapt.

What you don't seem to understand is just how poorly the line play has been and how poorly WR's have been running routes.

They are light years from what the finished product will be in a year or two. I heard Leach say one time that on any given play we would have two WR's running the play correctly. It is a simple concept offense but everyone has to be on the same page.

When just one Receiver runs the wrong route, it creates spacing problems for all the others. You never get it perfect but to believe what you have seen to date is the Leech offense is not close to the truth.

He also has said a lot of the issues with the line play is mental mistakes. That can be addressed with the players we have and you don't have to revamp the whole lineup.

Guys just relax a llttle, this is four weeks into a year when they didn't even have a spring. Leech will get things going better and it will be before the end of the year.

[Cowbell]

What you don't seem to understand is just how poorly the line play has been and how poorly WR's have been running routes.

They are light years from what the finished product will be in a year or two. I heard Leach say one time that on any given play we would have two WR's running the play correctly. It is a simple concept offense but everyone has to be on the same page.

When just one Receiver runs the wrong route, it creates spacing problems for all the others. You never get it perfect but to believe what you have seen to date is the Leech offense is not close to the truth.

He also has said a lot of the issues with the line play is mental mistakes. That can be addressed with the players we have and you don't have to revamp the whole lineup.

Guys just relax a llttle, this is four weeks into a year when they didn't even have a spring. Leech will get things going better and it will be before the end of the year.

I along with most others are plenty calm. We are discussing/debating etc respectfully - it's a message board.

I think everyone gets the oline play is poor. We are discussing why we think it is poor. Stay on topic.

Eta - I agree on route running / I actually brought this up after the last game.

[Hot Rock]

I along with most others are plenty calm. We are discussing/debating etc respectfully - it's a message board.

I think everyone gets the oline play is poor. We are discussing why we think it is poor. Stay on topic.

Eta - I agree on route running / I actually brought this up after the last game.

Stay on topic? Are you kidding? It's page 8 the topic has taken 10 twists by now.

I think it's wrong to think that Leach's fate is sealed if he won't adapt based on what we have seen this year. Leach has not ran his offense yet.

People mistake this offense as being easy to execute because it is easy to understand. It takes tons of reps to get the execution level high enough to be good. This team simply has not gotten those reps. I hope we will see progress before the end of the year but this year may get really ugly. I hope the fan base will support him and give him a chance for us to find out if it will work even if it takes 2 or 3 years because I think this guy is onto something that could take us all they way.

Why do I think that? Because we field some defensive studs and that is where championships are won. All we have needed is to score and his teams score.

[Todd4State]

It's amazing to me that our fans want our coaches to adjust but our players who can't do something minimally expected of them like being able to pass block is excused.

[Mobile Bay]

It's amazing to me that our fans want our coaches to adjust but our players who can't do something minimally expected of them like being able to pass block is excused.

Pass blocking is so complex it took me till third grade pee wee league to pick it up.

[msu15]

It's amazing to me that our fans want our coaches to adjust but our players who can't do something minimally expected of them like being able to pass block is excused.
Point the finger not the thumb****

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I will tell you why our returning RB is not there.

I have one source, only one, but I trust him. He told me at lunch today that Hill told KJ that he was going to kill him.

Rep given for actually 1) stating the extent of your sources, and 2) SAYING THE RUMOR! God I'm sick of vague BS and then going "No, I shouldn't tell..." when people ask for clarification. It's all meant to draw attention. You though are actually laying it out there and I commend you for it

[Cooterpoot]

I will tell you why our returning RB is not there.

I have one source, only one, but I trust him. He told me at lunch today that Hill told KJ that he was going to kill him.

Only part of it.

[ShotgunDawg]

I will tell you why our returning RB is not there.

I have one source, only one, but I trust him. He told me at lunch today that Hill told KJ that he was going to kill him.

Hill sounds like an awesome guy!

Also makes you realize why Leach may continue to give KJ chances.

[State82]

Rep given for actually 1) stating the extent of your sources, and 2) SAYING THE RUMOR! God I'm sick of vague BS and then going "No, I shouldn't tell..." when people ask for clarification. It's all meant to draw attention. You though are actually laying it out there and I commend you for it

This is exactly right. The cryptic bullshit on here sometimes is chicken shit. It's a 17ing sports message board. Get a life attention whores. It's commonplace around here.

[ZedFedder]

Basically if you have info but won’t tell it, why bother bringing it up? Because it’s to get attention.

[Cooterpoot]

Basically if you have info but won’t tell it, why bother bringing it up? Because it’s to get attention.

Or it's because we're generally dealing with kids and it's best to let all the facts come out, rather than run with rumors.

[Percho]

Facts?

Thy word is truth. Who is, thy?