Offensive Line single handedly..

[Bdawg]

Lost the game yesterday. I just had the chance to go back and watch the game this morning and that has to be one of the worst performances I have ever seen by that group. There is no way we can ever get anything going with the way this group is blocking. KJ gets very little blame from me today based on what that group put him through. They can't block one on one with a person head up on them. They can't help when no one is head up and look for a coming blitzer to pick up. Can't really run block worth a flip either. I saw our center on a run play have no one head up on and just take one step to the left and let a LB rush towards him, knock him down, and go make the tackle. Just absolutely God awful performance all the way around. They were the cause of KJ fumble and also contributed a little to the KJ pick(probably shouldn't have thrown it anyway). It was constant pressure all day, mixed in with some penalties, that just killed anything offensively. They cost us a deep shot for a TD when one of our receivers got behind the D, but pressure eliminated that chance. There is good reason we can't throw deep routes. We have no freaking time. Barely have enough time to throw a 10-15 yard out. Just absolutely atrocious. No offense will work with this garbage OL. I guess I see now why we are trying to recruit a lot for this position.

And all this talk of firing Leach is laughable. The man is trying to install his offense. Sure he could change it up for Shrader, but what is that accomplishing for next year. If you want fire someone, how bout the OL coach. But maybe it's not his fault. Heck we just let people run right by us untouched at times. Just horrible. Would like to hear other thought or if I'm wrong. Will discuss after church. Catch y'all in a little bit.

[Todd4State]

Maybe Hevesy can write them a letter telling them what they are doing wrong.**

[ShotgunDawg]

Lost the game yesterday. I just had the chance to go back and watch the game this morning and that has to be one of the worst performances I have ever seen by that group. There is no way we can ever get anything going with the way this group is blocking. KJ gets very little blame from me today based on what that group put him through. They can't block one on one with a person head up on them. They can't help when no one is head up and look for a coming blitzer to pick up. Can't really run block worth a flip either. I saw our center on a run play have no one head up on and just take one step to the left and let a LB rush towards him, knock him down, and go make the tackle. Just absolutely God awful performance all the way around. They were the cause of KJ fumble and also contributed a little to the KJ pick(probably shouldn't have thrown it anyway). It was constant pressure all day, mixed in with some penalties, that just killed anything offensively. They cost us a deep shot for a TD when one of our receivers got behind the D, but pressure eliminated that chance. There is good reason we can't throw deep routes. We have no freaking time. Barely have enough time to throw a 10-15 yard out. Just absolutely atrocious. No offense will work with this garbage OL. I guess I see now why we are trying to recruit a lot for this position.

And all this talk of firing Leach is laughable. The man is trying to install his offense. Sure he could change it up for Shrader, but what is that accomplishing for next year. If you want fire someone, how bout the OL coach. But maybe it's not his fault. Heck we just let people run right by us untouched at times. Just horrible. Would like to hear other thought or if I'm wrong. Will discuss after church. Catch y'all in a little bit.

Yeah. It's been the single worst unit on the field BY FAR.

I wonder if our centers are making bad protection calls?

[Cowbell]

Or maybe it's because of what they are being asked to do

[dawgday166]

Yep ... they've been very bad. I've seen all this too. We have no center right now. And 2 of other 4 are very young and confused. Eiland still can't move well either.

This cupboard is very bare. In fact it may be the worst I can remember at MSU. We have a little bit of young talent but it has a ways to go. Croom didn't inherit this bad of depth/talent/inexperience.

[HoopsDawg]

This cupboard is very bare. In fact it may be the worst I can remember at MSU. We have a little bit of young talent but it has a ways to go. Croom didn't inherit this bad of depth/talent/inexperience.

This is absurd. This same group of players set an ALL TIME SEC RECORD vs LSU and their foolish man to man defense. Croom had Will Prosser and Joey Sanders at WR with Kyle York at QB.

[HoopsDawg]

Or maybe it's because of what they are being asked to do

Ding, ding. Winner. At the very least it's a combination.

[Cooterpoot]

Well, we're recruiting nobodies on the OL and just lost our top JC OL recruit. So don't expect improvement soon. We're years away from winning anything if this offense even works.

[Mjoelner34]

I saw something happen several times that puzzled me. We were winning a block one on one then, after about 3 seconds, our guy would turn him loose and go double team on another block we were already winning. A lot of the pressures yesterday were because of this instead of us getting whipped.

Rogers did better against it because he seemed more decisive with the ball.

[StoneDawg]

Or maybe it's because of what they are being asked to do

Block?

[Bdawg]

Or maybe it's because of what they are being asked to do

Even so, blocking head up can't be that complicated.

[Bdawg]

This is absurd. This same group of players set an ALL TIME SEC RECORD vs LSU and their foolish man to man defense. Croom had Will Prosser and Joey Sanders at WR with Kyle York at QB.

Then how did we block more guys vs LSU and can't block 3 or 4 now? What has changed? The whiff on people head up. They let blitzing LBs run right by them when no one was on them to begin with(and still hit nobody).

[Todd4State]

Well, we're recruiting nobodies on the OL and just lost our top JC OL recruit. So don't expect improvement soon. We're years away from winning anything if this offense even works.

Then we need to hit the grad transfer portal if JUCO isn't an option. Cross, Smith, and Dollar Bill all have good upside and will get better. They're also all freshmen or sophomores. We just need to find two guards. But for the future we have the three most difficult spots to fill.

[Todd4State]

Then how did we block more guys vs LSU and can't block 3 or 4 now? What has changed? The whiff on people head up. They let blitzing LBs run right by them when no one was on them to begin with(and still hit nobody).

Not sure of the particulars but I have seen Marks whiff some in pass protection.

[Bdawg]

Well, we're recruiting nobodies on the OL and just lost our top JC OL recruit. So don't expect improvement soon. We're years away from winning anything if this offense even works.

I go back to the point that no offense will work without decent OL play, so they better start trying to find people and fix that first. Nobodies sure isn't going to work.

[ShotgunDawg]

Then how did we block more guys vs LSU and can't block 3 or 4 now? What has changed? The whiff on people head up. They let blitzing LBs run right by them when no one was on them to begin with(and still hit nobody).

It's mental. Just listened to Leach's press conference and says there is communication issues

[ShotgunDawg]

Well, we're recruiting nobodies on the OL and just lost our top JC OL recruit. So don't expect improvement soon. We're years away from winning anything if this offense even works.

We're 4 games into a new system.

Relax.

[Bdawg]

Not sure of the particulars but I have seen Marks whiff some in pass protection.

Yes but our RBs are in a pass route waaaay more than stay in to protect.

[dawgday166]

This is absurd. This same group of players set an ALL TIME SEC RECORD vs LSU and their foolish man to man defense. Croom had Will Prosser and Joey Sanders at WR with Kyle York at QB.

Croom inherited Jerious Norwood and David Stewart. Also had Omar Conner & Tee Milons. Not saying what Croom inherited was great but Norword and Stewart were NFL players, and were at the time Croom inherited them. Stewart was a Sr. Norwood was a Jr.

Name one NFL offensive player we have on our roster right now. Maybe Cross or Dolla Bill but they awfully inexperienced and young right now.

[Todd4State]

Yes but our RBs are in a pass route waaaay more than stay in to protect.

Agree. It was one play that I had in mind that stood out for some reason. The entire line is much more of an issue.

[dawgday166]

Well, we're recruiting nobodies on the OL and just lost our top JC OL recruit. So don't expect improvement soon. We're years away from winning anything if this offense even works.

Cross was 5*. Dolla Bill 4*. Eiland was 3* and honestly I thought he moved slow in HS recruiting video.
For 4 games under Hev in 2017 tho he played pretty decent. Hasn't really done anything like that since tho. And Bama wanted both Cross & Dolla Bill if I recall correctly. But outside of them and on interior of line, nothing but 3* players. And depth is a huge issue too.

[HoopsDawg]

Then how did we block more guys vs LSU and can't block 3 or 4 now? What has changed? The whiff on people head up. They let blitzing LBs run right by them when no one was on them to begin with(and still hit nobody).

LSU blitzed us 34 times. Last 3 opponents have blitzed us 6 times total. Wow.

[DownwardDawg]

Block?

Lol. That's exactly what I was gonna type.
If they're being asked to do too much, then how about start with just blocking the guy that's in front of you.

[Bdawg]

LSU blitzed us 34 times. Last 3 opponents have blitzed us 6 times total. Wow.

Just astonishing. That just has to tell you it is totally mental right. Unreal how they can't get the job done.

[Cooterpoot]

Then we need to hit the grad transfer portal if JUCO isn't an option. Cross, Smith, and Dollar Bill all have good upside and will get better. They're also all freshmen or sophomores. We just need to find two guards. But for the future we have the three most difficult spots to fill.

You got one correct. Cross is it. Other two won't work out and have already lost starting spots to a DL and a guy that can't play RT.

[Todd4State]

You got one correct. Cross is it. Other two won't work out and have already lost starting spots to a DL and a guy that can't play RT.

Yeah but Smith might be starting at left guard now. And the fact that we're starting a DL at center says a lot about our recruiting.

[Coach34]

Leach has his OL guy coaching it. His group gave up the fewest sacks in the Pac12 in 2018 and 2019.

We have talent on the OL and guys that have been solid players in the SEC for the last couple of years.

The system is making these guys worse. Thats the bottom line. Just like in 2009- it was mazing how much better the OL was once we changed systems. The OL can only do so much

[Lance Harbor]

Yep. The line used to could keep the D-Line off balance a bit by running. Now they are asked to play defense the entire game and the D-Line gets to pin their ears back and get after it every play. I could see that being frustrating from the O-Line standpoint.


Or maybe it's because of what they are being asked to do

[ShotgunDawg]

Leach has his OL guy coaching it. His group gave up the fewest sacks in the Pac12 in 2018 and 2019.

We have talent on the OL and guys that have been solid players in the SEC for the last couple of years.

The system is making these guys worse. Thats the bottom line. Just like in 2009- it was mazing how much better the OL was once we changed systems. The OL can only do so much

So them only being in the system for 4 games and no Spring practice has nothing to do with it?

Leach himself said in the press conference that they’re having communication issues.

[Bdawg]

Leach has his OL guy coaching it. His group gave up the fewest sacks in the Pac12 in 2018 and 2019.

We have talent on the OL and guys that have been solid players in the SEC for the last couple of years.

The system is making these guys worse. Thats the bottom line. Just like in 2009- it was mazing how much better the OL was once we changed systems. The OL can only do so much

Seems like our run blocking sucks too. Nobody scraping or just getting to the second level(which should be easy with 3 DLmen). Like in my OP, our center, who was uncovered, took one step on a run play and got knocked on his ass by a LB who ended up making the tackle. No way your uncovered OLmen should get blown up by a LB.

[Todd4State]

Leach has his OL guy coaching it. His group gave up the fewest sacks in the Pac12 in 2018 and 2019.

We have talent on the OL and guys that have been solid players in the SEC for the last couple of years.

The system is making these guys worse. Thats the bottom line. Just like in 2009- it was mazing how much better the OL was once we changed systems. The OL can only do so much

Yeah. Heaven forbid we ask five guys to block three. Eiland has been terrible for four years. Kentucky 2017? He was absolutely abused. Cross, Dollar Bill and Cole Smith are all in their first year. Jackson split time between DT and OL and didn't start last year. So no- they haven't been solid players for years. Except for maybe Parker. Who no one outside of MSU knows who he is.

[Coach34]

Yeah. Heaven forbid we ask five guys to block three. Eiland has been terrible for four years. Kentucky 2017? He was absolutely abused. Cross, Dollar Bill and Cole Smith are all in their first year. Jackson split time between DT and OL and didn't start last year. So no- they haven't been solid players for years. Except for maybe Parker. Who no one outside of MSU knows who he is.

It's not that they are just blocking 3- its that the LB's have no play action to worry about. So when the LB's see a QB looking to hand off- they come downhill to make a tackle. They dont have to worry about RPO's or play-action against us. It's drop back or handoff. Simple to read

[Bdawg]

It's not that they are just blocking 3- its that the LB's have no play action to worry about. So when the LB's see a QB looking to hand off- they come downhill to make a tackle. They dont have to worry about RPO's or play-action against us. It's drop back or handoff. Simple to read

Then why are our free OLmen not scraping up and taking on the LBs? It's not like it's a loaded box.

[ShotgunDawg]

It's not that they are just blocking 3- its that the LB's have no play action to worry about. So when the LB's see a QB looking to hand off- they come downhill to make a tackle. They dont have to worry about RPO's or play-action against us. It's drop back or handoff. Simple to read

Agree with this

[Cooterpoot]

Yeah but Smith might be starting at left guard now. And the fact that we're starting a DL at center says a lot about our recruiting.

He's not good. Why do people think that players that can't touch the field at our competition are always great moves. We didn't really want him out of HS and he was a legacy.

[Todd4State]

He's not good. Why do people think that players that can't touch the field at our competition are always great moves. We didn't really want him out of HS and he was a legacy.

Then why did LSU give him a scholarship in the first place? Hevesy didn't want Saahdiq Charles and the guy from Clemson either. I remember Derek Sherrod looking bad at times when he was a freshman and sophomore.

[Bdawg]

Agree with this

I think we have done a little play action, but not enough to my liking. Think we need to incorporate it more to try to hold some LBs in tight to hopefully open some windows behind them. But we hardly run it enough for play action to work. Also, if we do run against a 3 down set, then some of our OL should be working to the 2nd level and picking up a LBer or two. Our runs should be gashing a drop 8 defense, but none of this is happening.

[HoopsDawg]

Then why did LSU give him a scholarship in the first place? Hevesy didn't want Saahdiq Charles and the guy from Clemson either. I remember Derek Sherrod looking bad at times when he was a freshman and sophomore.

schools miss all the time. happens with at least 5 guys in every class. even at places like Bama and LSU.

Having said that, I though Cole looked decent at LG when he came in. But Cole did not look good at Center.

[HoopsDawg]

It's not that they are just blocking 3- its that the LB's have no play action to worry about. So when the LB's see a QB looking to hand off- they come downhill to make a tackle. They dont have to worry about RPO's or play-action against us. It's drop back or handoff. Simple to read

That's why the last 3 MLB's have had career games versus us. Must be fun to play LB against a Leach offense.

[dawgday166]

Leach has his OL guy coaching it. His group gave up the fewest sacks in the Pac12 in 2018 and 2019.

We have talent on the OL and guys that have been solid players in the SEC for the last couple of years.

The system is making these guys worse. Thats the bottom line. Just like in 2009- it was mazing how much better the OL was once we changed systems. The OL can only do so much

We have 2 tackles that are starting for the 1st time this year as RS Soph & RS FR. They have talent. No one else really has that much talent.

We've got 2 TOTAL Olinemen that have contributed before with Parker being pretty decent and Eiland being so-so (not that good). We aren't returning even what we had last year (and it was very bad) and damn sure ain't returning what we had 2 years ago. And we have NO center.

So we have 2 out of 5 Olinemen that have played a decent amount before, with one of those decent and one ho-hum. And we got 2 pretty talented tackles that are very young (haven't play much at all and starting for 1st time this year) with no real leadership on Oline to guide or direct them or tell them what they should be doing. And we have NO center. And we have NO depth that I can see.

What I just described don't look like a good Sun Belt Oline, much less an SEC Oline.

ETA: Throw in an all true FR backfield (now that Hill has flamed out and KJ didn't work out) and average WRs and I'm not sure why we ain't scoring 30+ on everyone we play ****

[Todd4State]

schools miss all the time. happens with at least 5 guys in every class. even at places like Bama and LSU.

Having said that, I though Cole looked decent at LG when he came in. But Cole did not look good at Center.

I agree about Cole.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Leach has his OL guy coaching it. His group gave up the fewest sacks in the Pac12 in 2018 and 2019.

We have talent on the OL and guys that have been solid players in the SEC for the last couple of years.

The system is making these guys worse. Thats the bottom line. Just like in 2009- it was mazing how much better the OL was once we changed systems. The OL can only do so much

No, we don't have good OL personnel. Our 2 most talented guys are Cross and Johnson, but only Cross is playing well and BOTH are young and BOTH have literally zero experience. Parker is the only returning starter that was pretty good- Eiland has always been exposed as having really slow feet. It happened all the time in '18. Smith is young and has literally no experience. Lastly, we have a DL starting at C. Of our 6 main OL, 3 are young and had no experience, 2 have experience (only 1 was good), and 1 is a DL. But sure, we have "talent and experience"... you just make stuff up sometimes.

Moreover, it's kinda ironic that you openly use the fact Leach has always had good OLs as proof his system itself is broken. I wonder what you'd say if his last 2 OLs at WSU were horrible? Yet his last 2 were really good and you literally use that to say the system fundamentally is broken. Again, you just see what you want to see

And last week you literally said that pick 6's should count against our defenses' points allowed stats because once the ball is intercepted the "offense becomes the defense". You say anything, no matter how dumb it is, if you think it prevents you from admitting you've been wrong.

[Bdawg]

No, we don't have good OL personnel. Our 2 most talented guys are Cross and Johnson, but only Cross is playing well and BOTH are young and BOTH have literally zero experience. Parker is the only returning starter that was pretty good- Eiland has always been exposed as having really slow feet. It happened all the time in '18. Smith is young and has literally no experience. Lastly, we have a DL starting at C. Of our 6 main OL, 3 are young and had no experience, 2 have experience (only 1 was good), and 1 is a DL. But sure, we have "talent and experience"... you just make stuff up sometimes.

Moreover, it's kinda ironic that you openly use the fact Leach has always had good OLs as proof his system itself is broken. I wonder what you'd say if his last 2 OLs at WSU were horrible? Yet his last 2 were really good and you literally use that to say the system fundamentally is broken. Again, you just see what you want to see

And last week you literally said that pick 6's should count against our defenses' points allowed stats because once the ball is intercepted the "offense becomes the defense". You say anything, no matter how dumb it is, if you think it prevents you from admitting you've been wrong.

Solid post. Sorry can't rep you.

[Mobile Bay]

You forgot to mention how our center can't even snap the ball properly. It's always high or low, making things worse on the QB. Hell, he snapped the ball early against LSU when KJ wasn't even looking.

[Mobile Bay]

Or maybe it's because of what they are being asked to do

Pass block? A basic skill that every OL should have picked up in pee wee league.

[Bdawg]

You forgot to mention how our center can't even snap the ball properly. It's always high or low, making things worse on the QB. Hell, he snapped the ball early against LSU when KJ wasn't even looking.

And on a couple good snaps KJ couldn't catch it!!

[Todd4State]

Pass block? A basic skill that every OL should have picked up in pee wee league.

How dare we expect MSU offensive linemen to do that?**

[FISHDAWG]

Pass block? A basic skill that every OL should have picked up in pee wee league.

you think it's easy ? ... Run blocking is way easier than pass blocking ... that's coming from a left tackle

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

you think it's easy ? ... Run blocking is way easier than pass blocking ... that's coming from a left tackle

Yet we get no push an often let DL or LBs that should be picked up slip through. Vs 3 DL and a 5 man box, we run for 2 yards. So even if you say pass blocking is complicated that's not really enough to excuse the OL

[Brahmabull]

Then why did LSU give him a scholarship in the first place? Hevesy didn't want Saahdiq Charles and the guy from Clemson either. I remember Derek Sherrod looking bad at times when he was a freshman and sophomore.

Not true. Hevesy wanted Saahdiq Charles but we didn't get him. He was a Louisiana transplant guy. Once LSU really wanted him, we were not getting him.