Why Pittman succeeding and MSU is not?

[Indndawg]

Simple Q.

[bulldawg28]

His Qb transfer is better.

[msbulldog]

Odom

[msbulldog]

Briles

[msbulldog]

Luck

[KOdawg1]

He doesn't have a one dimensional offense and he's a better motivator. And he's got two good coordinators

[ShotgunDawg]

- Defenses are a wash as both are solid and about equal.

- Since Arkansas has lost so many games, I think the players were hungrier to win and don't have the culture issues we're battling.

- I'm not a Franks fan, but he's taking care of the ball.

- And perhaps mostly, Arkansas' offensive scheme is much more similar to what they've run in the past than what we're doing. Consider the OL splits and speed necessary in the reads.

Pittman has done a great job but they're playing Mullen style football in which more talent is needed. I don't see much upside with Arkansas' style of play and they're mostly winning off other teams screwing up. Arkansas style is perfect for going from bad to decent, but offers no upside.

I think we're on the right path but it's taking a little longer due the OL splits and QB situation

[ShotgunDawg]

He doesn't have a one dimensional offense and he's a better motivator. And he's got two good coordinators

I don't agree.

Motivation isn't an issue for us and don't see much upside in their offense.

[msstate7]

I don't agree.

Motivation isn't an issue for us and don't see much upside in their offense.

Didn't leach just say we have "malcontents"? That's motivation, Gun. Arkansas has bought in bc of Pittman.

[KOdawg1]

I don't agree.

Motivation isn't an issue for us and don't see much upside in their offense.

they're more motivated than us. It's that simple. They're playing hard for Pittman.

Their offense isn't anything special, but it's better than our's. Disagree all you want. Those are the facts.

[dawgday166]

Didn't leach just say we have "malcontents"? That's motivation, Gun. Arkansas has bought in bc of Pittman.

That could be cause Leach isn't a "rah-rah" guy. But if one of the malcontents is someone who is supposed to be a leader and is a de facto leader (Hill), that can pull your whole team down, or at very least whole side of ball he plays on.

If we don't turn ball over inside their 30 yd line or so and score pts, we beat Arky. And Franks is a much better transfer QB and going from Mullen's O to Briles' probably wasn't much of a stretch for him. And he's used to speed/physicality of SEC too.

[msstate7]

That could be cause Leach isn't a "rah-rah" guy. But if one of the malcontents is someone who is supposed to be a leader and is a de facto leader (Hill), that can pull your whole team down, or at very least whole side of ball he plays on.

If we don't turn ball over inside their 30 yd line or so and score pts, we beat Arky. And Franks is a much better transfer QB and going from Mullen's O to Briles' probably wasn't much of a stretch for him. And he's used to speed/physicality of SEC too.

If we take the FGs, we also beat ark.

[Coursesuper]

Having a close friend with a kid on the team it's very simple to tell you why. Complete buy in from the players and all the staff from AD on down. They are marching as one, not one of them is pulling in the other direction.

[basedog]

Put the kool aid down Gun, you are making way too much excuses for Leach. He has been a dumpster fire so far! He has way to much Emory, Sly and Joe in him, that being hard headed. Biggest surprise for me has been on defense, no problems with the attitude or players mainly because Leach has nothing to do with that side of the ball.

Hope I'm wrong and I want bash Leach all year long as it's only 4 games which I saw no adjustments on offense.

Btw, Franks has been solid, Arkansas is motivated for sure, seem to be well Coached.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

His OL doesnt suck.

[maroonmania]

they're more motivated than us. It's that simple. They're playing hard for Pittman.

Their offense isn't anything special, but it's better than our's. Disagree all you want. Those are the facts.

You don't need a special offense to outperform what we are doing. A standard balanced offense is much harder to stop than what we are currently doing. We have a one dimensional offense that seemingly can't defeat one specific type of defense that everyone is going to run against us. Until that changes we are stuck in a bad way.

[ShotgunDawg]

they're more motivated than us. It's that simple.

This may be the most ridiculous statement of the day. It'll be tough to beat this one

[ShotgunDawg]

You don't need a special offense to outperform what we are doing. A standard balanced offense is much harder to stop than what we are currently doing. We have a one dimensional offense that seemingly can't defeat one specific type of defense that everyone is going to run against us. Until that changes we are stuck in a bad way.

Stop looking 2 inches in front of your face

Leach's offense will give us ceiling we've never had. Isn't that worth a little bit of a wait?

[msstate7]

Stop looking 2 inches in front of your face

Your posts are pretty much exactly what they were after Moorhead's cracks were showing. Now I'll give you that leach has a track record where Moorhead didn't. What concerns me though is leach isn't gonna change from leaving our tackles on an island vs sec DEs... not sure we will ever be able to do that well.

[maroonmania]

Stop looking 2 inches in front of your face

Leach's offense will give us ceiling we've never had. Isn't that worth a little bit of a wait?

I'm not even talking about what the Leach offense is capable of being 2 or 3 years now with a different set of players and longer to implement the system. I'm talking about why we are ineffective as we sit here today on October 18th, 2020 and Arkansas is not.

[WinningIsRelentless]

Stop looking 2 inches in front of your face

Leach's offense will give us ceiling we've never had. Isn't that worth a little bit of a wait?

Members of leach?s own offensive staff is telling him he has to change or they will be unemployed in two years? You even saw some of it on the sidelines yesterday.

[MaroonFlounder]

Stop looking 2 inches in front of your face

Leach's offense will give us ceiling we've never had. Isn't that worth a little bit of a wait?

I finally agree with Gun on something. If we ever get the personnel to run this thing, it is one that could beat Bama. The question is, can Leach build it? And in a decent amount of time, given we are paying him $5M. It starts up front, we have a train wreck at OL. And they gave up, 2 weeks in a row. And if we manage to get the Offense together, by then, Arnett will be gone and Defense may not be half as good. It sucks that we can't ever seem to put it all together.

[ShotgunDawg]

Your posts are pretty much exactly what they were after Moorhead's cracks were showing. Now I'll give you that leach has a track record where Moorhead didn't. What concerns me though is leach isn't gonna change from leaving our tackles on an island vs sec DEs... not sure we will ever be able to do that well.

Moorhead never had a game like LSU and track record 100% matters. Also, I don't see the DE issue as a real one. He faced great DEs in the PAC 12 as well and the SEC doesn't even have a 1st round caliber DE right now.

[msstate7]

Moorhead never had a game like LSU and track record 100% matters. Also, I don't see the DE issue as a real one. He faced great DEs in the PAC 12 as well and the SEC doesn't even have a 1st round caliber DE right now.

And yet, we can't block em

[ShotgunDawg]

I'm not even talking about what the Leach offense is capable of being 2 or 3 years now with a different set of players and longer to implement the system. I'm talking about why we are ineffective as we sit here today on October 18th, 2020 and Arkansas is not.

But we've explained that. We're making the most dramatic scheme change in college football while they aren't.

It's the same question every day.

[ShotgunDawg]

Members of leach?s own offensive staff is telling him he has to change or they will be unemployed in two years? You even saw some of it on the sidelines yesterday.

Really? Where did you hear this?

[KOdawg1]

This may be the most ridiculous statement of the day. It'll be tough to beat this one

Says the guy who makes ridiculous statements on a daily basis.

[ShotgunDawg]

And yet, we can't block em

I think that's the product of a QB that makes slow decisions and an OL that doesn't know how to pick up blitzes. I don't believe that'll be an issue in the future.

[bluelightstar]

Moorhead never had a game like LSU and track record 100% matters. Also, I don't see the DE issue as a real one. He faced great DEs in the PAC 12 as well and the SEC doesn't even have a 1st round caliber DE right now.

Moorhead definitely had games where his offense unloaded on bad defenses?which is what LSU is, despite their name. I?ll give you Leach?s track record matters, because that?s the only reason right now to think this is going to work.

[ShotgunDawg]

Says the guy who makes ridiculous statements on a daily basis.

Says the guy who made a statement that completely disqualified him from being able to participate in a quality sports's conversation. You basically held a sign up that said you were clueless.

[ShotgunDawg]

Moorhead definitely had games where his offense unloaded on bad defenses?which is what LSU is, despite their name. I?ll give you Leach?s track record matters, because that?s the only reason right now to think this is going to work.

True but again. Moorhead's offense wasn't why he was fired.

[parabrave]

they're more motivated than us. It's that simple. They're playing hard for Pittman.

Their offense isn't anything special, but it's better than our's. Disagree all you want. Those are the facts.

Defense we are better. However they have the players that fit their offensive scheme. We DON'T. And yeah they don't throw 5-6 interceptions a game!

[ShotgunDawg]

Defense we are better. However they have the players that fir their offensive scheme. We DON'T. And yeah they don't throw 5-6 interceptions a game!

But I thought it was just about effort?*

You mean we just can't lower our head, growl, and run through brick walls to fix our issues?*

[KOdawg1]

Says the guy who made a statement that completely disqualified him from being able to participate in a quality sports's conversation. You basically held a sign up that said you were clueless.

Lol, you want to call me clueless? Gun, your opinion on a subject can change 7 times in a span of a day. You're the most bipolar poster on both Gene's Page and this one. You're in a constant cycle of unrealistic optimism, followed by pessimism when you realize you were too high, followed by the building of hope, and then the cycle repeats. I've seen you go through this many times.

I said that Arkansas is more motivated than us. You, my friend, are the one that is clueless if you can't see that.

[ShotgunDawg]

Lol, you want to call me clueless? .

Yeah. Your opinions are mostly ignorant. Please read a few books on sports and try again later.

[KOdawg1]

But I thought it was just about effort?*

You mean we just can't lower our head, growl, and run through brick walls to fix our issues?*

You took my post about motivation out of context, which isn't surprising. I'm not saying motivation is the root behind our problems. I listed it as one of the reasons why Arkansas was ahead of us. But go ahead and continue to make a fool out of yourself.

[KOdawg1]

Yeah. Your opinions are mostly ignorant. Please read a few books on sports and try again later.


Let's poll the board and let's see who they find more ignorant buddy.

[ShotgunDawg]

Let's poll the board and let's see who they find more ignorant buddy.

That would be great.

I don't think you're dumb but your effort comment was Dumb. On a list of top 5 problems we have, effort doesn't make the list.

So please, think deeper instead of just throwing out a meathead 1970s nutt hugging, spandex coach comment.

"Try harder" is rarely the main issue.

[KOdawg1]

That would be great.

I don't think you're dumb but your effort comment was Dumb. On a list of top 5 problems we have, effort doesn't make the list.

So please, think deeper instead of just throwing out a meathead 1970s nutt hugging, spandex coach comment.

"Try harder" is rarely the main issue.

Again, I was just listing one of the reasons Arky is doing better than us. You're the one who took it out of context and thought I was listing it as one of our main issues. It's not. But Pittman does have Arky ready to play every week. Add that with their two good coordinators, and it tells you why they are doing better than us right now. Which is what this whole thread was about.

[msstate7]

Personally I think leach is dumber than both of you (not saying either of you are dumb) for having no answer for when his tackles can't handle DEs.

[KOdawg1]

Personally I think leach is dumber than both of you (not saying either of you are dumb) for having no answer for when his tackles can't handle DEs.

We need some transfers badly. The guys we have out there now don't have a clue. If I'm an NFL scout and I watch Greg Eiland's tape from Kentucky two years ago and A&M yesterday, I'm saying no thanks.

[bulldawg28]

Personally I think leach is dumber than both of you (not saying either of you are dumb) for having no answer for when his tackles can't handle DEs.

Lol... the large splits on offense make all lineman like tackles making it even harder to help those struggling.

[WinningIsRelentless]

Really? Where did you hear this?

You saw it on the sideline yesterday.

[ShotgunDawg]

You saw it on the sideline yesterday.

Ahhh. So you could hear what they were sayin?

Again, this may almost be a blessing. Leach is being forced to adjust early in his tenure

[parabrave]

But we've explained that. We're making the most dramatic scheme change in college football while they aren't.

It's the same question every day.

Yep we are going from the offense of today, which was poorly coached, to the offense we ran in the backyard when we were kids. Johnny go long Eddie go to the tree I got 10 Mississippis to find you.

[bulldawg28]

Yep we are going from the offense of today, which was poorly coached, to the offense we ran in the backyard when we were kids. Johnny go long Eddie go to the tree I got 10 Mississippis to find you.

Lmao

[maroonmania]

But we've explained that. We're making the most dramatic scheme change in college football while they aren't.

It's the same question every day.

True, but even in this transition period the offense looked pretty dang good against a standard defense playing mostly man. Problem is we won't see that defense ever again until we solve the 3-8 puzzle.

[DeltaChicagoDog]

Members of leach?s own offensive staff is telling him he has to change or they will be unemployed in two years? You even saw some of it on the sidelines yesterday.

Is this based in fact, or applying to the current circumstances what basically happened with Moorhead's staff before the 2018 Auburn game? If the former, this could be a positive thing. Matt Wyatt was saying that when "it looks good in practice" doesn't translate to gameday, somebody has a blind spot and is unable to accurately assess and diagnose what needs to be fixed. Let's hope Coach Leach can integrate constructive criticism. Because if he can't, a good (and potentially great) coach can become a coach who used to be pretty good, but sabotaged it with his ego.

[msbulldog]

Put the kool aid down Gun, you are making way too much excuses for Leach. He has been a dumpster fire so far! He has way to much Emory, Sly and Joe in him, that being hard headed. Biggest surprise for me has been on defense, no problems with the attitude or players mainly because Leach has nothing to do with that side of the ball.

Hope I'm wrong and I want bash Leach all year long as it's only 4 games which I saw no adjustments on offense.

Btw, Franks has been solid, Arkansas is motivated for sure, seem to be well Coached.

You are wrong this time, my friend. Leach has made adjustments this week and he is building for the future. As far as i know he has never been fired from a job except Texas Tech where he was a consistent winner after all the Craig James Bullshit about his no talent son not playing. He will right the pirate ship and we will become winners! Hail State!

[ShotgunDawg]

True, but even in this transition period the offense looked pretty dang good against a standard defense playing mostly man. Problem is we won't see that defense ever again until we solve the 3-8 puzzle.

And we'll solve it soon

[Percho]

I'm not even talking about what the Leach offense is capable of being 2 or 3 years now with a different set of players and longer to implement the system. I'm talking about why we are ineffective as we sit here today on October 18th, 2020 and Arkansas is not.

Because we will either not or we can not block three defensive linemen.

Heck, even on the blocked punt three men broke through the line and two and a half went through the next three blockers. We do not block anyone.

BTW id we block very well last year?

[basedog]

You are wrong this time, my friend. Leach has made adjustments this week and he is building for the future. As far as i know he has never been fired from a job except Texas Tech where he was a consistent winner after all the Craig James Bullshit about his no talent son not playing. He will right the pirate ship and we will become winners! Hail State!

I will be closely watching to see what you say, well maybe not closely, LOL! I wouldn't bet the mortgage his offense will work in the Sec. Hope I'm wrong and if so I will be the first to say I was wrong. I just don't like what I have seen, I have yet to understand how Leach could have kept sending KJ out there. Can you say 10 interceptions?

[DeltaChicagoDog]

Because we will either not or we can not block three defensive linemen.

Heck, even on the blocked punt three men broke through the line and two and a half went through the next three blockers. We do not block anyone.

BTW id we block very well last year?

That blocked punt and the near absence of blocking by our players was a thing to behold. It seemed like the back three didn't even move and/or did not see aTm's players headed that way. Which sounds as ridiculous as it looked on the television.

[Bothrops]

Arkansas will hit a wall at some point. But right now their players are hungrier and transfer qb is a lot better than ours.

[ShotgunDawg]

Arkansas will hit a wall at some point. But right now their players are hungrier and transfer qb is a lot better than ours.

I'm done with transfer QBs, especially those with an injury history.

We need develop QBs internally and build towards the future.

When you take transfers from other conferences, with injury histories, they come to the SEC and get hit more. It's a terrible combination

[Bothrops]

I'm done with transfer QBs, especially those with an injury history.

We need develop QBs internally and build towards the future.

When you take transfers from other conferences, with injury histories, they come to the SEC and get hit more. It's a terrible combination

Good points

[maroonmania]

Because we will either not or we can not block three defensive linemen.

Heck, even on the blocked punt three men broke through the line and two and a half went through the next three blockers. We do not block anyone.

BTW id we block very well last year?

I say again though that the OL we have now have never played in a system like this with the wide splits or been asked to pass protect 90% of the time. Blocking will get better no doubt with more training in the system and practicing pass pro all the time, the question is how much better. Leach and company will be recruiting OL going forward focused on pass protection skills whereas in the past, run blocking was as important if not more important.

[LC Dawg]

Arkansas is like Mullen's first year at State. There's some talent and much better coaching than the prior staff. They are competitive but the truth is that they've beaten two really bad teams. The difference in those teams is that Mullen was also the OC and play caller and Pittman is relying on coordinators that will leave when they're successful and won't be easily replaced.
To compare them with us at this point is a little apples vs oranges because of our massive change in offensive systems but our offense definitely looks as if it is not well coached at this point. I guess time will tell.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Why is Arky better than State? They have a solid defense and mediocre offense. We have a solid defense and a putrid offense. Both defenses are solid because of stud DCs.

Why is our offense worse than theirs? Well their O would look just as bad as ours and they'd be 0-4 right now IF Franks threw as many INTs as Costello. So right there we really don't have to go farther than 1 player's level of play to account for it.

But their OL also physically touches the DL in front of them and ours doesn't, so that's an other difference.

Y'all are making this too complicated- our OL coaching/personnel is awful, and our QB had no idea WTF he was doing and is possibly injured anyway.

[Todd4State]

I say again though that the OL we have now have never played in a system like this with the wide splits or been asked to pass protect 90% of the time. Blocking will get better no doubt with more training in the system and practicing pass pro all the time, the question is how much better. Leach and company will be recruiting OL going forward focused on pass protection skills whereas in the past, run blocking was as important if not more important.

You're right. And I think the younger guys will become more and more accustomed to it over the years as they develop. We're playing a few really young guys right now like Cross.

[Todd4State]

Arkansas is like Mullen's first year at State. There's some talent and much better coaching than the prior staff. They are competitive but the truth is that they've beaten two really bad teams. The difference in those teams is that Mullen was also the OC and play caller and Pittman is relying on coordinators that will leave when they're successful and won't be easily replaced.
To compare them with us at this point is a little apples vs oranges because of our massive change in offensive systems but our offense definitely looks as if it is not well coached at this point. I guess time will tell.

The problem with the Coach O model that Arkansas is using is it's only as good as the coordinators. And if they are good they will inevitably move on. Which means constant change and a lack of stability. So that model may yield LSU 2019- but it could also yield LSU 2020 as well.

[MaroonFlounder]

I think that's the product of a QB that makes slow decisions and an OL that doesn't know how to pick up blitzes. I don't believe that'll be an issue in the future.

I haven't counted, but I saw a graphic that said A&M only blitzed twice...which tells you even more about how bad they're struggling.

[ShotgunDawg]

I haven't counted, but I saw a graphic that said A&M only blitzed twice...which tells you even more about how bad they're struggling.

My eyes saw them blitz more than that

[ShotgunDawg]

The problem with the Coach O model that Arkansas is using is it's only as good as the coordinators. And if they are good they will inevitably move on. Which means constant change and a lack of stability. So that model may yield LSU 2019- but it could also yield LSU 2020 as well.

Correct

[MaroonFlounder]

My eyes saw them blitz more than that

With the wide splits and a DL shooting the gap without being touched makes it look like a blitz when it's not. Rewatch the game.

[Irondawg]

I’ve got a one word answer - turnovers

Ark is having a year like Croom did where key turnovers and defensive scores are winning games for them and it’s unsustainable. Despite that they still could have easily lost to us and Ole miss

They are playing hard but it’s a bit of fools gold.

For us our offense has lost their confidence. The QB doesn’t trust the line and the rest of the squad doesn’t trust the qb. But if we just had half the turnovers (which would still be too many) we are probably at least 3-1

[Leeshouldveflanked]

My eyes saw them blitz more than that

A blitz is rushing 5 or more.... they brought 4 a good bit.

[Matt3467]

- ARK isn't undergoing as drastic an offensive change as MSU so transition is easier as well as making it easier to pickup minus having a spring.
- We apparently have a culture problem that stems back to Moorhead letting the players run all over him. Kind of how it was late Sherrill when Croom arrived although this may be worse.
- Player types as we are seeing evidently are far more important for this type of offense. Our Oline sucks at pass blocking and our WRs have no YAC ability. We have young talented Olineman that will improve and Leach will recruit the type he needs and same goes for our WRs. Also we may need another Oline coach although I'm not ready to call it just yet.
- KJ (when given time) makes bad decisions. Not sure what's going on here but Will Rogers showed in limited action he is the better option at least so far.

* Others are quick to point out that Leach's offense just won't work in the SEC against SEC players but first thing that comes to my mind is do they not realize that we field SEC players also? Someone posted a graph of NFL picks on teams in the PAC vs SEC recently on here and outside of Bama there wasn't much difference. Regardless of how many games USC, Oregon, WASH, UCLA, Utah, Stanford, Cal, etc are winning they have put just as many or close to the same number of players in the NFL. Since 2000 the SEC is 20-16 vs PAC 12 teams with the average game being decided by around 2 pts. Remember National Championship favored Bama (before losing to FLA in the SECC) losing their bowl
game to undefeated Utah in '08 by two TDs? Btw Utah should've been in the NC but FLA (who lost to OM) and a 1 lose OK (interesting tidbit: lost to TX that year which in turn went in as the #1 team in the country and lost to Mike Leach led Red Raiders) end up going instead. I'm not being biased for Utah either as I believe '04 Auburn should've been playing in the NC. Anyway my point is that the SEC isn't so much different as far as star recruits and future NFL players as other conferences outside of Bama the last decade.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Stop looking 2 inches in front of your face

Leach's offense will give us ceiling we've never had. Isn't that worth a little bit of a wait?

Yes.

[BB30]

I think that's the product of a QB that makes slow decisions and an OL that doesn't know how to pick up blitzes. I don't believe that'll be an issue in the future.

Teams are only blitzing a couple of times a game bub.