Cigar Boys

[Cowbell]

What are they saying? Leach better get his crap together.
We did not play with effort on offense.
We did not make adjustments on offense.
We have little creativity on offense.
We continue to regress.
This has Moorhead written all over it. And we are paying the man 5 million. Those summer trips to Key west should have been spent coming up with some plan Bs and Cs.

[Cowbell]

Dear baby Jesus please do not let us lose Arnette.

[ShotgunDawg]

Who gives a rip what they said.

Stupid post. We're showing signs of getting better and this has happened everywhere Leach has been.

Absolutely stupid post

[ScoobaDawg]

we been talking about cigar boys for 20 years... are they still even alive. does jr have any power?

[ShotgunDawg]

What are they saying? Leach better get his crap together. Who cares
We did not play with effort on offense. Not true.
We did not make adjustments on offense.The offense itself doesn't need adjustments. Just needs a QB that makes quick decisions (WILL)
We have little creativity on offense. Again, the offense works. Creativity not needed
We continue to regress. Not in the 4th quarter we didn't It's the best the offense has looked all year
This has Moorhead written all over it.LOL Stupid comment And we are paying the man 5 millionCorrect and he's worth it. Those summer trips to Key west should have been spent coming up with some plan Bs and Cs.Plausible statement. He probably thought his offense was more simple than it really was. He probably didn't appreciate Minshew like he should have and now he's realizing that it takes a particular type of QB to pull it off. However, KJ was the starter at Stanford and Minshew couldn't win the job at East Carolina, so it's hard to fault him.

[Cowbell]

Who gives a rip what they said.

Stupid post. We're showing signs of getting better and this has happened everywhere Leach has been.

Absolutely stupid post

Signs of getting better? Gun you have never played the game of football at any decent level and yet you run your mouth about stuff you have no idea about. So the one time I want to voice my opinion, you can shut up and listen. Stop posting so damn much on here unless you actually really know what you are talking about. You were making fun of Will Rogers when the rest of us said to give him a chance. And you told Bucky that you knew more about Will than he did - that is laughable.

[Cowbell]

What are they saying? Leach better get his crap together. Who cares
We did not play with effort on offense. Not true.
We did not make adjustments on offense.The offense itself doesn't need adjustments. Just needs a QB that makes quick decisions (WILL)
We have little creativity on offense. Again, the offense works. Creativity not needed
We continue to regress. Not in the 4th quarter we didn't It's the best the offense has looked all year
This has Moorhead written all over it.LOL Stupid comment And we are paying the man 5 millionCorrect and he's worth it. Those summer trips to Key west should have been spent coming up with some plan Bs and Cs.Plausible statement. He probably thought his offense was more simple than it really was. He probably didn't appreciate Minshew like he should have and now he's realizing that it takes a particular type of QB to pull it off. However, KJ was the starter at Stanford and Minshew couldn't win the job at East Carolina, so it's hard to fault him.
You have started several threads with your expert opinions on the game. Please don't hijack my peasant thread.

[Cowbell]

we been talking about cigar boys for 20 years... are they still even alive. does jr have any power?
It's fun to think about atleast LOL

[ShotgunDawg]

Signs of getting better? Gun you have never played the game of football at any decent level and yet you run your mouth about stuff you have no idea about. So the one time I want to voice my opinion, you can shut up and listen. Stop posting so damn much on here unless you actually really know what you are talking about. You were making fun of Will Rogers when the rest of us said to give him a chance. And you told Bucky that you knew more about Will than he did - that is laughable.

I just thought your post was incredibly dumb. People tell me mine are dumb all the time, so I reciprocate when possible.

I'm just as frustrated as you are and other MSU are, but we showed signs of life in the 4th quarter and this has literally happened every place Leach has been.

I'll make you a deal, if 4 games into 2022 we still look like this, I'll be right there with you, but, at this point, there are signs (small ones that not everyone notices) that this thing is getting turned around.

Stick with it. Believe in the man that has won every where he's been and is one of the best offensive minds in history. Believe that what you saw from Will Rogers is real. See the signs because they are there.

We've got maybe the best football coach we've ever had at MSU. Please don't try to sabotage the process of him building it the right way. I promise it's closer to getting right that getting worse.

[ShotgunDawg]

You have started several threads with your expert opinions on the game. Please don't hijack my peasant thread.

But I completely disagree with your opinion. I'm not going to sit here and watch someone that has no clue what they're looking at start crap.

[Todd4State]

Signs of getting better? Gun you have never played the game of football at any decent level and yet you run your mouth about stuff you have no idea about. So the one time I want to voice my opinion, you can shut up and listen. Stop posting so damn much on here unless you actually really know what you are talking about. You were making fun of Will Rogers when the rest of us said to give him a chance. And you told Bucky that you knew more about Will than he did - that is laughable.

You're wrong. And we can't keep firing coaches after one year. He will get three years at least barring a scandal.

[ShotgunDawg]

Imagine watching a program you had no emotional attachment to, that sucked on offense the year before, and thinking they should fire their new coach, who is one of the greatest offensive minds ever, after 4 games when he is installing a new system with new players.

Imagine seeing that from 30K feet and thinking that the person calling for the firing was a sane human. Just think about that

[msu15]

Imagine watching a program you had no emotional attachment to, that sucked on offense the year before, and thinking they should fire their new coach, who is one of the greatest offensive minds ever, after 4 games when he is installing a new system with new players.

Imagine seeing that from 30K feet and thinking that the person calling for the firing was a sane human. Just think about that

And having to do it in 2020 Covid. It's mind boggling how some of our fans are acting.

[BeardoMSU]

we been talking about cigar boys for 20 years... are they still even alive. does jr have any power?

No Shit! At this point, our "cigar boys" are actually vaping Sherm, while sipping a hard seltzer and listening to some dude named Billy Eyelish**

Also, this whole notion that big money donors could or should have a say in our athletic dept., re: big time decisions, is retarded as hell. Just because you have money doesn't mean you know a GD shit about college football, sports in general, the coaching landscape, big picture perspective, etc.

We're all fans, after all...."fans with money" are still just fans.

[ShotgunDawg]

You're wrong. And we can't keep firing coaches after one year. He will get three years at least barring a scandal.

Correct and he's good. Real good.

This issue that people have and I've found this myself, is we expect linear development. Meaning, that all players and teams improve at the same rate and on the same schedule.

That isn't reality. Every new job has different players, different circumstances, different competition, etc and it's not usually linear. Leach will get this right and I'm guessing it's going to happen quicker than you think

[Cowbell]

I just thought your post was incredibly dumb. People tell me mine are dumb all the time, so I reciprocate when possible.

I'm just as frustrated as you are and other MSU are, but we showed signs of life in the 4th quarter and this has literally happened every place Leach has been.

I'll make you a deal, if 4 games into 2022 we still look like this, I'll be right there with you, but, at this point, there are signs (small ones that not everyone notices) that this thing is getting turned around.

Stick with it. Believe in the man that has won every where he's been and is one of the best offensive minds in history. Believe that what you saw from Will Rogers is real. See the signs because they are there.

We've got maybe the best football coach we've ever had at MSU. Please don't try to sabotage the process of him building it the right way. I promise it's closer to getting right that getting worse.

My post is not dumb. I believe in Leach as much as anybody but I'm seeing some very scary signs that tell me this is not going to be a match made in heaven. And he certainly has time to turn it around. But he is not getting the most out of what he has. And that is not good at MSU. Coaching the way he coached today will get him fired in 2022. Today was pitiful coaching. Starting with leaving KJ in for three quarters.

[ShotgunDawg]

And having to do it in 2020 Covid. It's mind boggling how some of our fans are acting.

I've come to the conclusion that some people just like stirring stuff up because surely they aren't that dumb

[Cowbell]

You're wrong. And we can't keep firing coaches after one year. He will get three years at least barring a scandal.

Todd what am I wrong about? I'm not saying to fire the guy. But he is doing the same stuff that got joe Moorhead fired.

[Percho]

Who gives a rip what they said.

Stupid post. We're showing signs of getting better and this has happened everywhere Leach has been.

Absolutely stupid post

I agree with this post.

[ShotgunDawg]

My post is not dumb. I believe in Leach as much as anybody but I'm seeing some very scary signs that tell me this is not going to be a match made in heaven. And he certainly has time to turn it around. But he is not getting the most out of what he has. And that is not good at MSU. Coaching the way he coached today will get him fired in 2022. Today was pitiful coaching. Starting with leaving KJ in for three quarters.

Your post was dumb because it made inaccurate points based off your emotion and not fact.

Secondly, I agree if we still look like this in 2022 Leach may get fired, but we won't. We won't resemble this in two years.

We'll have a 3 year starter at QB, experienced Leach type WRs, and an offensive line that knows what they're doing.

Leach's offenses go as the QB goes. That' obvious. What's no so obvious but fairly likely is that he found that QB in the 4th quarter today.

Leach even said after the game that he's never had a FR QB conduct a drive like Will did against that Caliber of competition.

Just wait. I get it, it's frustrating, but it's coming. I feel like we're headed in the right direction more today than I have at any point.

[ShotgunDawg]

Todd what am I wrong about? I'm not saying to fire the guy. But he is doing the same stuff that got joe Moorhead fired.

Moorhead didn't get fired for his offense, he got fired for lack of discipline and not being able to manage a football program.

Truth be told, if Moorhead could manage a football program, his offense likely would've worked at some point.

But regardless, Leach is 1,000 times better. I'm going to guess by the 2nd half of this season we won't resemble what we've been the last 3 games.

[BeardoMSU]

Your post was dumb because it made inaccurate points based off your emotion and not fact.

Secondly, I agree if we still look like this in 2022 Leach may get fired, but we won't. We won't resemble this in two years.

We'll have a 3 year starter at QB, experienced Leach type WRs, and an offensive line that knows what they're doing.

Leach's offenses go as the QB goes. That' obvious. What's no so obvious but fairly likely is that he found that QB in the 4th quarter today.

Leach even said after the game that he's never had a FR QB conduct a drive like Will did against that Caliber of competition.

Just wait. I get it, it's frustrating, but it's coming. I feel like we're headed in the right direction more today than I have at any point.

I don't disagree that we could look great in 2 years, but I do worry about the Leach trend of highs and lows. We shouldn't have to bottom out to reach his ideal. This offense is actually worse than Joe's at this point....and we're absolutely better than this.

[msu15]

I don't disagree that we could look great in 2 years, but I do worry about the Leach trend of highs and lows. We shouldn't have to bottom out to reach his ideal. This offense is actually worse than Joe's at this point....and we're absolutely better than this.

Is it really though? Moorhead's first 4 SEC games resulted in 7, 6, 23, and 6 points in a 1-3 record.

[ShotgunDawg]

I don't disagree that we could look great in 2 years, but I do worry about the Leach trend of highs and lows. We shouldn't have to bottom out to reach his ideal. This offense is actually worse than Joe's at this point....and we're absolutely better than this.

I agree with this, but I'm not sure what the answer is.

Leach has a very unique system and we seem to be hell bent on diving into it 100% rather than dipping our toe in(Playing Shrader).

However, I think the worst is behind us. As with most new coaching staffs, you say "Better get them early". Well teams lucked out and got us early.

I think we're going to figure things out during this bye week, start Will, and begin taking major steps

[Cowbell]

Moorhead didn't get fired for his offense, he got fired for lack of discipline and not being able to manage a football program.

Truth be told, if Moorhead could manage a football program, his offense likely would've worked at some point.

But regardless, Leach is 1,000 times better. I'm going to guess by the 2nd half of this season we won't resemble what we've been the last 3 games.

Gun my response was to Todd, not you. You have got to be more respectful of others on this page and not make every other post on a thread. I get your opinion. I got it on every other thread since the game ended.
And my opinion is not based on emotion. It's what I saw today on the field. No based on Leach's past or where I think we will be in two years. Based on today, he did a very poor job offensively with what he had. Period.

[ShotgunDawg]

Is it really though? Moorhead's first 4 SEC games resulted in 7, 6, 23, and 6 points in a 1-3 record.

True. Moorhead was also taking over a quality coached offense, whereas Leach did not take over a quality coached offense.

I think Leach could've gone with Shrader and used his running ability as a safety net of sorts for the offense, but that's not who Leach is and he's rather struggle mightily and get his offense installed as quickly as possible

[Cowbell]

Is it really though? Moorhead's first 4 SEC games resulted in 7, 6, 23, and 6 points in a 1-3 record.
But how many points did the Moorhead offenses give up - lol? Those pic 6s mean we have given up more points than we have scored in two games.

[ShotgunDawg]

Gun my response was to Todd, not you. You have got to be more respectful of others on this page and not make every other post on a thread. I get your opinion. I got it on every other thread since the game ended.
And my opinion is not based on emotion. It's what I saw today on the field. No based on Leach's past or where I think we will be in two years. Based on today, he did a very poor job offensively with what he had. Period.

Ok. So we should call the cigar boys and put Leach's job on line based off only today without perspective about where we are going in the future?

I just want to make sure I understand where you stand.

[msu15]

But how many points did the Moorhead offenses give up - lol? Those pic 6s mean we have given up more points than we have scored in two games.

True lol, but I disagree in the statement that Moorhead's offense was better by this point. Both have been equally shit with our players looking just as confused.

[ShotgunDawg]

True lol, but I disagree in the statement that Moorhead's offense was better by this point. Both have been equally shit with our players looking just as confused.

I remember Mullen's offense working pretty quickly, but then again it didn't work against teams with talent, so maybe it needed a little more complexity.

What Leach really needed was a normal schedule against some G5 team where somethings could be ironed out and guys could gain confidence and find rhythm

[Cowbell]

Ok. So we should call the cigar boys and put Leach's job on line based off only today with perspective about where we are going?

I just want to make sure I understand where you stand.
Stop overthinking this. The 'cigar boys' is just an attention getter. Nowhere have I said I think we need to fire the guy. I have been 100% behind Leach since he got here. But he is exhibiting some signs that concern me. Signs that I think will be problems even after he gets things rolling (as I believe he will at some point). I do not like the effort or anything about the offense today. It was putrid. Plain and simple.

[msu15]

I remember Mullen's offense working pretty quickly, but then again it didn't work against teams with talent, so maybe it needed a little more complexity.

What Leach really needed was a normal schedule against some G5 team where somethings could be ironed out and guys could gain confidence and find rhythm

And even then, we had some growing pains that season. Against Houston and Georgia Tech, Lee and Dixon had like 3 or 4 fumbles on the read option, and it directly cost us the Houston game and a subsequent bowl birth. Also Lee not pitching to Dixon for the TD against LSU. Guys not recruited for the system.

[Cooterpoot]

They're thinking, "can we furlough them or cut their pay".*

[Todd4State]

Todd what am I wrong about? I'm not saying to fire the guy. But he is doing the same stuff that got joe Moorhead fired.

You titled the thread Cigar Boys- I took that as you think Leach should be in trouble or forced to change things- which will result in him leaving.

You also talked about poor effort on offense- there is a difference in getting beat and playing with poor effort. Our guys are getting beat. We scored when Will came on the game.

Adjustments- new wrinkles in the running game, totally new offensive line, sat Costello, and basically kicked Hill off the team which is anything Moorhead like.

This team reminds me more of Cohen's first two years as baseball coach. We struggled and we didn't quite have the players to do what he wanted to do- but once they got in he put MSU in a place where even Polk had never gone while adding to our baseball legacy greatly. And guess what? I remember people wanting Cohen and Butch gone. Instead we gave them a chance based on Cohen's track record and then we saw what happened.

Except I would say the baseball program was in worse shape than football. We play good defense and mostly good special teams. Offense has major issues but if we start Rogers today we probably win. And unlike baseball under Cohenat least we are competitive already. I'm sure Bama will kick our ass as always but after that if Will can manage the offense and mask the o-line with quicker decisions we could very possibly average 21-28 PPG down the stretch. Which would probably be enough to win almost all of our remaining games outside of maybe Georgia and Auburn with the way our defense has been playing. We just have a smaller margin for error because of our pieces on offense.

[Todd4State]

I
I remember Mullen's offense working pretty quickly, but then again it didn't work against teams with talent, so maybe it needed a little more complexity.

What Leach really needed was a normal schedule against some G5 team where somethings could be ironed out and guys could gain confidence and find rhythm

But....but.... those games are boring!**

[Cowbell]

You titled the thread Cigar Boys- I took that as you think Leach should be in trouble or forced to change things- which will result in him leaving.

You also talked about poor effort on offense- there is a difference in getting beat and playing with poor effort. Our guys are getting beat. We scored when Will came on the game.

Adjustments- new wrinkles in the running game, totally new offensive line, sat Costello, and basically kicked Hill off the team which is anything Moorhead like.

This team reminds me more of Cohen's first two years as baseball coach. We struggled and we didn't quite have the players to do what he wanted to do- but once they got in he put MSU in a place where even Polk had never gone while adding to our baseball legacy greatly. And guess what? I remember people wanting Cohen and Butch gone. Instead we gave them a chance based on Cohen's track record and then we saw what happened.

Except I would say the baseball program was in worse shape than football. We play good defense and mostly good special teams. Offense has major issues but if we start Rogers today we probably win. And unlike baseball under Cohenat least we are competitive already. I'm sure Bama will kick our ass as always but after that if Will can manage the offense and mask the o-line with quicker decisions we could very possibly average 21-28 PPG down the stretch. Which would probably be enough to win almost all of our remaining games outside of maybe Georgia and Auburn with the way our defense has been playing. We just have a smaller margin for error because of our pieces on offense.

Appreciate your take.

[ShotgunDawg]

You titled the thread Cigar Boys- I took that as you think Leach should be in trouble or forced to change things- which will result in him leaving.

You also talked about poor effort on offense- there is a difference in getting beat and playing with poor effort. Our guys are getting beat. We scored when Will came on the game.

Adjustments- new wrinkles in the running game, totally new offensive line, sat Costello, and basically kicked Hill off the team which is anything Moorhead like.

This team reminds me more of Cohen's first two years as baseball coach. We struggled and we didn't quite have the players to do what he wanted to do- but once they got in he put MSU in a place where even Polk had never gone while adding to our baseball legacy greatly. And guess what? I remember people wanting Cohen and Butch gone. Instead we gave them a chance based on Cohen's track record and then we saw what happened.

Except I would say the baseball program was in worse shape than football. We play good defense and mostly good special teams. Offense has major issues but if we start Rogers today we probably win. And unlike baseball under Cohenat least we are competitive already. I'm sure Bama will kick our ass as always but after that if Will can manage the offense and mask the o-line with quicker decisions we could very possibly average 21-28 PPG down the stretch. Which would probably be enough to win almost all of our remaining games outside of maybe Georgia and Auburn with the way our defense has been playing. We just have a smaller margin for error because of our pieces on offense.

This is an outstanding post.

[preachermatt83]

Imagine watching a program you had no emotional attachment to, that sucked on offense the year before, and thinking they should fire their new coach, who is one of the greatest offensive minds ever, after 4 games when he is installing a new system with new players.

Imagine seeing that from 30K feet and thinking that the person calling for the firing was a sane human. Just think about that

+10000

[Cowbell]

+10000
You can change your sig now. C34 is back

[RougeDawg]

Anyone wanting to fire Leach needs a psychiatrist and a new mirror.

We could easily have been 3-0 heading into today.

We outgained Arkansas and Kentucky. We looked discombobulated doing that. We played well enough to win today and saw what the offense can look like with a QB ready to run it.

Not to mention the sour culture left by the last clown show staff.

I think the Covid has really had a mental impact on many here. Relax. The Gunslinger Will Rogers offense in the 2nd half is more of what we will see in the future. Our pets heads are not falling off.

These posts about firing ML are making me rethink even getting back on here. It?s fine to post worries and questions, but posting pure ignorance makes us all look stupid. Please stop and act like adults.

[CadaverDawg]

Our cigar boys smoke Black & Milds while the rest of the SEC's smoke Cubans.

[R2Dawg]

Who gives a rip what they said.

Stupid post. We're showing signs of getting better and this has happened everywhere Leach has been.

Absolutely stupid post

Gun why do you attack anyone's opinion that doesn't agree with yours with insults?

Not a stupid post. Every organization has "cigar boys" those most vested that influence decisions.

Getting better? Well the O did score 7 points but we've been laughing stock for 3 straight weeks.

[bluelightstar]

Gun why do you attack anyone's opinion that doesn't agree with yours with insults?

Not a stupid post. Every organization has "cigar boys" those most vested that influence decisions.

Getting better? Well the O did score 7 points but we've been laughing stock for 3 straight weeks.

We scored a touchdown in the 4th quarter and then A&M promptly put the clamps back down. I did not see an offense that was on the verge of working.

[ShotgunDawg]

We scored a touchdown in the 4th quarter and then A&M promptly put the clamps back down. I did not see an offense that was on the verge of working.

Agree to disagree

[ShotgunDawg]

Gun why do you attack anyone's opinion that doesn't agree with yours with insults?

Not a stupid post. Every organization has "cigar boys" those most vested that influence decisions.

Getting better? Well the O did score 7 points but we've been laughing stock for 3 straight weeks.

Because I tell people when I disagree and I felt many of his points were terrible. Also, by using Cigar Boys, he was trying to stir something up that would be devastating to our program.

[Turfdawg67]

I fear that Alabama vs our OL will give Rogers PTSD for the rest of the season...

[ShotgunDawg]

I fear that Alabama vs our OL will give Rogers PTSD for the rest of the season...

Who knows. If Will sees the field quickly, I think we can score a little

[MaroonFlounder]

Who knows. If Will sees the field quickly, I think we can score a little

If we had a guy like Plumlee, I would feel better about going into Tuscaloosa. Will was hesitant to scramble/run in H.S. He's gonna get wrecked back there. Bama sees our OL spacing and are absolutely licking their chops. I don't know if I would want to see our true FR future get demoralized like he's gonna be. I wish 3/4 of the team would get Covid and that bloodbath on Halloween can get postponed.

[NCDawg]

If we had a guy like Plumlee, I would feel better about going into Tuscaloosa. Will was hesitant to scramble/run in H.S. He's gonna get wrecked back there. Bama sees our OL spacing and are absolutely licking their chops. I don't know if I would want to see our true FR future get demoralized like he's gonna be. I wish 3/4 of the team would get Covid and that bloodbath on Halloween can get postponed.

Pretty obvious from what we've seen so far, Rogers will have little or no time to look for receivers to throw. I agree we will need a scrambling QB to go against Alabama. Costello will get clobbered.

[ShotgunDawg]

If we had a guy like Plumlee, I would feel better about going into Tuscaloosa. Will was hesitant to scramble/run in H.S. He's gonna get wrecked back there. Bama sees our OL spacing and are absolutely licking their chops. I don't know if I would want to see our true FR future get demoralized like he's gonna be. I wish 3/4 of the team would get Covid and that bloodbath on Halloween can get postponed.

Plumlee can't throw. So I'm not sure why you'd want him running Leach's offense. That doesn't make any sense.

It'll be interesting to see if the sacks are reduced dramatically with Will due to how quickly he reads the defense

[ShotgunDawg]

Pretty obvious from what we've seen so far, Rogers will have little or no time to look for receivers to throw. I agree we will need a scrambling QB to go against Alabama. Costello will get clobbered.

Was there much pressure on Rogers when he came in or are you looking at the pressure KJ had on him and assuming it'll be the same for Rogers? Just trying to understand your stance

[MaroonFlounder]

Plumlee can't throw. So I'm not sure why you'd want him running Leach's offense. That doesn't make any sense.

It'll be interesting to see if the sacks are reduced dramatically with Will due to how quickly he reads the defense

Only the mobility part of Plumlee. Why does it matter the throwing part if you're playing Bama and gonna lose anyway? Will gonna get killed.

[ShotgunDawg]

Only the mobility part of Plumlee. Why does it matter the throwing part if you're playing Bama and gonna lose anyway? Will gonna get killed.

Because we're trying to build for the future. Common sense.

[State82]

Our cigar boys smoke Black & Milds while the rest of the SEC's smoke Cubans.

That is on game days. The rest of the week they are pulling on fruit flavored Cigarillos.

[MaroonFlounder]

Was there much pressure on Rogers when he came in or are you looking at the pressure KJ had on him and assuming it'll be the same for Rogers? Just trying to understand your stance

By the time Rogers came in, the A&M defense weren't as intense. Then he led a TD drive, and they said "back to work"

[ShotgunDawg]

By the time Rogers came in, the A&M defense weren't as intense. Then he led a TD drive, and they said "back to work"

That's just simply not true at all. that's your opinion, not reality

[FISHDAWG]

Because I tell people when I disagree and I felt many of his points were terrible. Also, by using Cigar Boys, he was trying to stir something up that would be devastating to our program.

no - you tend to hurl insults. What I want to know is what was untruthful about his original post? Everyone knows Leach isn't going to be fired with-in the next couple of years - this is folks blowing off steam but everything the man said can't be refuted

[FISHDAWG]

But I completely disagree with your opinion. I'm not going to sit here and watch someone that has no clue what they're looking at start crap.

Gun ... you have been ringing the Leach bell every since he was announced and crowned him the MSU savior before he even arrived on campus ... I'm surprised you didn't suggest a Coronation. He had some success at TT and moderate success at WSU ... he threw it around for a couple years at Kentucky, but so far we haven't seen anything in his game planning that would indicate he has enough objectivity to do what is necessary to adjust and at least be competitive NOW in the SEC. If this is the only evidence that that you are using to crown him the MSU Football savior then maybe you should take more of a wait and see instead of being so adamant to the point of insulting others and proclaiming in your Nostradamus type manner that you know how this shit is going to play out and nobody else has a clue then you're just wrong.
Most folks are stating their belief based on what they are seeing - and what they are seeing is so far this isn't working against mediocre SEC defenses and no adjustment are being made except for holding some bad attitudes out of the game. You may end up being right or you may end up being wrong but quit insulting folks and calling them or their comments dumb like you have everything figured out - if you're that 17'n good you need to send Saban a resume

[FISHDAWG]

True lol, but I disagree in the statement that Moorhead's offense was better by this point. Both have been equally shit with our players looking just as confused.

Moorehead scored 106 points in two games against Arkansas ... beat OM twice. I agree that Leach is ultimately a better head coach but let's not act like his offense to date is way ahead of Moorhead's .... and I totally agree that both offenses have looked terrible.... So far all we really have is nothing but speculation on the future success of ML in the SEC - there's no hard evidence this is going to work yet

[ShotgunDawg]

He had some success at TT and moderate success at WSU ...

You mean the best seasons they’ve ever had?

Pretty ridiculous that you can’t even acknowledge reality.

It was the Cigar Boy part of his post and lack effort I was calling, not whether or not Leach will win.

[FISHDAWG]

You mean the best seasons they?ve ever had?

Pretty ridiculous that you can?t even acknowledge reality.

It was the Cigar Boy part of his post and lack effort I was calling, not whether or not Leach will win.

TT and the PAC-12 aren't the SEC and I'm seeing now how PAC-12 QB's are .... I don't think he was calling for the cigar boys to start pressuring Cohen to fire leach... it was not much more than just blowing off steam - no-one in their right mind would be calling for Leach's job right now - I took it more like cynicism. I'm glad Leach gave TT / WSU their best seasons because that is the hope we cling to because we sure don't have anything in front of us to cling to right now. I think the problem is that some of us aren't sold (or never were) on this system working here and not seeing any attempt to adjust is a little discouraging.... AND THAT IS ACKNOWLEDGING REALITY

[ShotgunDawg]

TT and the PAC-12 aren't the SEC and I'm seeing now how PAC-12 QB's are .... We'll see how big of a deal this in the future. My feeling is that about 70% of our problems are due to us and a lack of execution and about 30% is due to an increase in competition for Leach's offense. Anyone thinking it's 100% of either isn't being realistic

I don't think he was calling for the cigar boys to start pressuring Cohen to fire leach...I think that's exactly what he was doing or at least trying to start something

it was not much more than just blowing off steam - no-one in their right mind would be calling for Leach's job right now Definitely blowing off steam, but went to a place that would devastating to our program. I think he was serious

- I took it more like cynicism. I'm glad Leach gave TT / WSU their best seasons because that is the hope we cling to because we sure don't have anything in front of us to cling to right now. I think the problem is that some of us aren't sold (or never were) on this system working here and not seeing any attempt to adjust is a little discouraging.... AND THAT IS ACKNOWLEDGING REALITY I get that people aren't sold. I think it'll work because I saw the same things said about Urban's offense and it worked in the SEC and I've never seen an offensive system that worked at every level of the game and then just goes to crap in the SEC. Spurrier's offense in the NFL may have been the closest.

[Maroonthirteen]

Well.... whoever the current cigars are... I have had the feeling for awhile now that they put out the talking points to MSU fans through Bo Bounds.

Bounds had Matt Wyatt on today. Wyatt says it's execution and not the scheme. Hahahaha.
In other words, Leach ain't going nowhere. All is good boys. Send your money, buy tickets. Just be patient.

[ShotgunDawg]

In other words, Leach ain't going nowhere.

Wait... after 4 games, you want him to go somewhere?

[jackindabox]

What are they saying? Leach better get his crap together. Who cares
We did not play with effort on offense. Not true.
We did not make adjustments on offense.The offense itself doesn't need adjustments. Just needs a QB that makes quick decisions (WILL)
We have little creativity on offense. Again, the offense works. Creativity not needed
We continue to regress. Not in the 4th quarter we didn't It's the best the offense has looked all year
This has Moorhead written all over it.LOL Stupid comment And we are paying the man 5 millionCorrect and he's worth it. Those summer trips to Key west should have been spent coming up with some plan Bs and Cs.Plausible statement. He probably thought his offense was more simple than it really was. He probably didn't appreciate Minshew like he should have and now he's realizing that it takes a particular type of QB to pull it off. However, KJ was the starter at Stanford and Minshew couldn't win the job at East Carolina, so it's hard to fault him.

It was about this time last year when I was kicked off this website for a month for trying to defend Moorhead. My defense was that we were starting to show improvements during garbage time minutes of certain games. This line of defense was unanimously shot down as a ridiculously stupid thing to say. Fast forward a year and the same line of defense is being made for Mike Leach. I said then every coach needs three years before he should be realistically judged on his performance. The reason is because he needs experience from the players he actually recruited. In hindsight I admit Moorhead is not a good fit here because he is a terrible disciplinarian but his offense never got a fair chance. He had a qb who was recruited to run a spread offense. Similarly Leach doesn't have a qb on campus to run an Air Raid. That is why both coaches brought in a Senior transfer in hopes that a little bit of experience will help but it doesn't work because the qb is only one position and the rest of the team lacks experience in the system and both senior transfer qbs were long shots at best. Im glad we have Leach instead of Moorhead but after seeing the way we ran him out of town, I hope we have a little more patience this time around. My prediction however though is that we will look sloppy on offense for the rest of the year and people will loose patience and start calling for his resignation .

[Hot Rock]

Todd what am I wrong about? I'm not saying to fire the guy. But he is doing the same stuff that got joe Moorhead fired.

Same stuff that got Moorhead fired? Hell no! Obviously, you have no clue what you are talking about. You should read more and post less because the more you say them more you look uninformed, at best.

[Dawgology]

Same stuff that got Moorhead fired? Hell no! Obviously, you have no clue what you are talking about. You should read more and post less because the more you say them more you look uninformed, at best.

Anyone trying to compare Moorhead to Leach needs to be ignored because they clearly are a little slow. Just let them vent and move on.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Anyone trying to compare Moorhead to Leach needs to be ignored because they clearly are a little slow. Just let them vent and move on.

I don't think anyone is comparing Leach and Moorhead as HC's. I think they're comparing that some are making the same excuses for Leach as some tried to make for Moorhead and they were raked over the coals for. I've been vocal since the beginning that I don't think this is going to work in the SEC, but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to give Leach 2-3 years to get his people in here. I think people just want to see improvement of any kind and right now we aren't seeing it and it's going to be more of the same in two weeks in Bryant Denny.

[Cowbell]

I don't think anyone is comparing Leach and Moorhead as HC's. I think they're comparing that some are making the same excuses for Leach as some tried to make for Moorhead and they were raked over the coals for. I've been vocal since the beginning that I don't think this is going to work in the SEC, but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to give Leach 2-3 years to get his people in here. I think people just want to see improvement of any kind and right now we aren't seeing it and it's going to be more of the same in two weeks in Bryant Denny.

Thank you for having good reading comprehension and understanding this thread. Some of us just see red flags but I think we all agree that they can go away with time.

[BiscuitEater]

What are they saying? Leach better get his crap together.

So, you WANT Joe back?

[Cowbell]

So, you WANT Joe back?

How do you even derive that out of what I said? I'm just curious what other people with clout have to say about this.

[ShotgunDawg]

How do you even derive that out of what I said? I'm just curious what other people with clout have to say about this.

What would you expect them to say after 4 games?

[Dawgology]

I don't think anyone is comparing Leach and Moorhead as HC's. I think they're comparing that some are making the same excuses for Leach as some tried to make for Moorhead and they were raked over the coals for. I've been vocal since the beginning that I don't think this is going to work in the SEC, but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to give Leach 2-3 years to get his people in here. I think people just want to see improvement of any kind and right now we aren't seeing it and it's going to be more of the same in two weeks in Bryant Denny.

The big BIG difference is that Leach is a proven winner and two decade head coach whereas Moorhead was a new coach that looked completely lost. Leach has earned more time due to the fact that he wins everywhere he goes. It’s that simple. If we are still having issues like this in year three then yeah it’s time to look at other options. But right now it’s not even close to the same situation Moorhead walked in to. Not remotely close.

[preachermatt83]

Anyone wanting to fire Leach needs a psychiatrist and a new mirror.

We could easily have been 3-0 heading into today.

We outgained Arkansas and Kentucky. We looked discombobulated doing that. We played well enough to win today and saw what the offense can look like with a QB ready to run it.

Not to mention the sour culture left by the last clown show staff.

I think the Covid has really had a mental impact on many here. Relax. The Gunslinger Will Rogers offense in the 2nd half is more of what we will see in the future. Our pets heads are not falling off.

These posts about firing ML are making me rethink even getting back on here. It?s fine to post worries and questions, but posting pure ignorance makes us all look stupid. Please stop and act like adults.

Absolutely

[preachermatt83]

Well.... whoever the current cigars are... I have had the feeling for awhile now that they put out the talking points to MSU fans through Bo Bounds.

Bounds had Matt Wyatt on today. Wyatt says it's execution and not the scheme. Hahahaha.
In other words, Leach ain't going nowhere. All is good boys. Send your money, buy tickets. Just be patient.

And Wyatt is exactly right

[MaroonFlounder]

. Similarly Leach doesn't have a qb on campus to run an Air Raid. .

You can stop right there. He does. Will Rogers is the guy. Will ran the system in high school, under his father, the OC at Brandon. Granted, it looks different on the HS level, but Will is picking up the Leach version quicker than an average true freshman. And, the kid had to be put on the shelf due to Covid. All he needs is more game experience. O-Line and receivers still have to figure it out regardless, but still...

[Cowbell]

What would you expect them to say after 4 games?

The ones I know are sick of watching our offense already.

[StarkVegasSteve]

You can stop right there. He does. Will Rogers is the guy. Will ran the system in high school, under his father, the OC at Brandon. Granted, it looks different on the HS level, but Will is picking up the Leach version quicker than an average true freshman. And, the kid had to be put on the shelf due to Covid. All he needs is more game experience. O-Line and receivers still have to figure it out regardless, but still...

I'll be completely honest here, I don't think Will is the guy. I fully expect Sawyer Robertson to come in next year and win the job. He's got the look of an air raid QB and he's also run it at the high school level. And this isn't a Will is terrible take. I think Will is a good QB. I just think Robertson is a much better QB.

[ShotgunDawg]

The ones I know are sick of watching our offense already.

I'm always amazed at how people with such little perspective as a Cigar Boy that is already sick of Leach, could become wealthy in the first place. Must be 2nd generation money because there's virtually no way someone with that little of common sense would get rich.

Anyway, shoot them this video and tell them to fast forward to when Rogers comes in around the 30 min mark


https://youtu.be/EkyqiMDhcps

[StarkVegasSteve]

I'm always amazed at how people with such little perspective as a Cigar Boy that is already sick of Leach, could become wealthy in the first place. Must be 2nd generation money because there's virtually no way someone with that little of common sense would get rich.

Anyway, shoot them this video and tell them to fast forward to when Rogers comes in around the 30 min mark


https://youtu.be/EkyqiMDhcps

Again, I don't think it's that people are sick of Leach. I think they're sick of the fact that outside of LSU this year and Arkansas last year our offense has had no rhythm for the better part of two years when we've supposedly hired 2 "offensive juggernauts" to figure it out. I think people are wanting to give Leach time if our offense would show some improvement just like I think people would've been willing to give Joe more time had his offense shown improvement. But we seem to be doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Just like Moorhead last year with Stevens, Leach has continually run out a QB that is either a)injured or b)just doesn't have it. I think naming Rodgers the starter going forward will ease a lot of people's minds and show the willingness to change. And as long as Rodgers doesn't make any Costello mistakes then I think most will relax and let Leach work.

[ShotgunDawg]

Again, I don't think it's that people are sick of Leach. I think they're sick of the fact that outside of LSU this year and Arkansas last year our offense has had no rhythm for the better part of two years when we've supposedly hired 2 "offensive juggernauts" to figure it out. I think people are wanting to give Leach time if our offense would show some improvement just like I think people would've been willing to give Joe more time had his offense shown improvement. But we seem to be doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Just like Moorhead last year with Stevens, Leach has continually run out a QB that is either a)injured or b)just doesn't have it. I think naming Rodgers the starter going forward will ease a lot of people's minds and show the willingness to change. And as long as Rodgers doesn't make any Costello mistakes then I think most will relax and let Leach work.

Good point. It's accumulative frustrating.

I think we're about to get going

[MaroonFlounder]

I'll be completely honest here, I don't think Will is the guy. I fully expect Sawyer Robertson to come in next year and win the job. He's got the look of an air raid QB and he's also run it at the high school level. And this isn't a Will is terrible take. I think Will is a good QB. I just think Robertson is a much better QB.

That's fair. Sawyer is going to be really good in this system. But the guy commented that there is not an air raid QB on campus right now. That is incorrect. Will knows the system.

[ShotgunDawg]

I'll be completely honest here, I don't think Will is the guy. I fully expect Sawyer Robertson to come in next year and win the job. He's got the look of an air raid QB and he's also run it at the high school level. And this isn't a Will is terrible take. I think Will is a good QB. I just think Robertson is a much better QB.

I don't fully reject this opinion.

I think Will can be good to really good, but that Robertson can be great.

Will has all the ingredients to be really good in the offense, which Shrader and Costello lack, but Robertson has all the same ingredients as Will but just better ingredients. Will has the right ingredients but they are the generic brand of the ingredient, whereas Sawyers same ingredients are brand name.

[Turfdawg67]

I think we're about to get going

You said that last week and we were arguably worse. I guess if you keep saying it, hopefully you'll eventually be right.

[ShotgunDawg]

You said that last week and we were arguably worse. I guess if you keep saying it, hopefully you'll eventually be right.

Did I say that last week?

I don't remember saying that last week. Against KY, we showed no sign of being close to breaking through. I believe in the 2nd half against A&M we did. That's what I'm going off of

[Turfdawg67]

Technically you said that you felt Costello was going to get it going again. I said, "Based on what". You said something to the effect that he had hit rock bottom.

[ShotgunDawg]

Technically you said that you felt Costello was going to get it going again. I said, "Based on what". You said something to the effect that he had hit rock bottom.

Oh yeah. I did say that and was wrong. To my defense, I was just basing that on the odds but had not yet identified why Costello wasn't any good.

Now that I've identified his issues: slow feet and processing speed, I don't think he has a chance.

However, what showed me Costello's real issue was watching Rogers play as he's clearly quicker and a faster processer of the reads. Had I seen Rogers play more at KY, perhaps I would've seen the difference and problems with Costello quicker.

My bad on that.

[Cowbell]

Again, I don't think it's that people are sick of Leach. I think they're sick of the fact that outside of LSU this year and Arkansas last year our offense has had no rhythm for the better part of two years when we've supposedly hired 2 "offensive juggernauts" to figure it out. I think people are wanting to give Leach time if our offense would show some improvement just like I think people would've been willing to give Joe more time had his offense shown improvement. But we seem to be doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Just like Moorhead last year with Stevens, Leach has continually run out a QB that is either a)injured or b)just doesn't have it. I think naming Rodgers the starter going forward will ease a lot of people's minds and show the willingness to change. And as long as Rodgers doesn't make any Costello mistakes then I think most will relax and let Leach work.

This guy gets it. Nobody is asking for Leach to even win. Just make some adjustments to cover our insufficiencies when they pop up and make the games competitive. It's not like we are playing top 5 teams with a team full of wall-ons.

[ShotgunDawg]

This guy gets it. Nobody is asking for Leach to even win. Just make some adjustments to cover our insufficiencies when they pop up and make the games competitive. It's not like we are playing top 5 teams with a team full of wall-ons.

The #1 current problem with MSU football is lack of stability at the QB position.

If you think about it, we really haven't had stability at QB since Fitz went down with the ankle injury against Ole Miss.

Since then, it's been Fitz, not as explosive in an offense that didn't fit him, Stevens getting hurt, Shrader getting hurt, Costello not knowing the offense and having slow feet, etc....

Once we get stability at the QB position with a QB that fits the system they are running, our offense will begin to take off again. Will Rogers and Sawyer Robertson fit the system and, if either of them can take the bull by the horns and create some stability at the QB position, we will win and have a good offense again.

Very very few teams in college football win without stability at QB and we haven't had that for basically 3 years now.

[Cowbell]

I'm going to continue to bump this until some of you get it. Cohen gonna have some fun hearing bout this...

[R2Dawg]

The #1 current problem with MSU football is lack of stability at the QB position.

If you think about it, we really haven't had stability at QB since Fitz went down with the ankle injury against Ole Miss.

Since then, it's been Fitz, not as explosive in an offense that didn't fit him, Stevens getting hurt, Shrader getting hurt, Costello not knowing the offense and having slow feet, etc....

Once we get stability at the QB position with a QB that fits the system they are running, our offense will begin to take off again. Will Rogers and Sawyer Robertson fit the system and, if either of them can take the bull by the horns and create some stability at the QB position, we will win and have a good offense again.

Very very few teams in college football win without stability at QB and we haven't had that for basically 3 years now.

Reason we have not had stability at QB position is because of the HC that we hired. Both tried to bring in transfers that were not better than those on the team. The team knew it, fans knew it and thus a fractured team, locker room and fanbase. All starts with the HC. Mullen as a first year HC handled it better than last 2, granted the transfer portal wasn't around then.

[R2Dawg]

I'm going to continue to bump this until some of you get it. Cohen gonna have some fun hearing bout this...

I agree. Most are OK giving anyone time but the last 4 weeks at 5 mil a year? If you pay the bills, you are asking questions. If you are gonna lose them all, at least look good doing it or at least be entertaining or something. We are a laughing stock.

[Todd4State]

The #1 current problem with MSU football is lack of stability at the QB position.

If you think about it, we really haven't had stability at QB since Fitz went down with the ankle injury against Ole Miss.

Since then, it's been Fitz, not as explosive in an offense that didn't fit him, Stevens getting hurt, Shrader getting hurt, Costello not knowing the offense and having slow feet, etc....

Once we get stability at the QB position with a QB that fits the system they are running, our offense will begin to take off again. Will Rogers and Sawyer Robertson fit the system and, if either of them can take the bull by the horns and create some stability at the QB position, we will win and have a good offense again.

Very very few teams in college football win without stability at QB and we haven't had that for basically 3 years now.

Our entire program hasn't been stable since 2015 when Dan started to try to leave. That was the REAL start of why we are where we are. Dan got pouty and stopped recruiting and did a full Jackie with heavy JUCO recruiting because he was trying to get the hell out of here. And in the meantime MSU coddled him- especially Stricklin. That left us with the great senior offensive group that we have now. Which means zero upperclass leadership outside of Errol Thompson and Kobe Jones. And then hiring Moorhead made it extensively worse because he ruined the best thing that Dan did which was have a good culture.

So now we're left with a young team that doesn't have a winning culture. You can't win in the SEC with that.

What we're going through right now was inevitable because we made terrible decisions from Stricklin and Cohen.

[Todd4State]

I agree. Most are OK giving anyone time but the last 4 weeks at 5 mil a year? If you pay the bills, you are asking questions. If you are gonna lose them all, at least look good doing it or at least be entertaining or something. We are a laughing stock.

Given the context of the situation and the fact that it is year one? Yes. If this is year 4-5? No.

Losing is never entertaining. But the truth is last night was really the only time we didn't really have a chance to win. Even Kentucky Osiris cost us a TD and we had a pick 6 and another almost go for a pick 6.