Truth

[BuckyIsAB****]

Was gonna wait till after the game to post this but right now Leach is Moorhead 2.0. He is not putting the kids in position to win. The OL cannot do what is being asked of them. He would rather do what he does and lose than adjust. Which is exactly why Moorhead underachieved.

Only difference is Leach is better with discipline but other than that we have a more expensive Moorhead at HC.

[bluelightstar]

You shouldn?t hire a coach who is too dedicated to a system. No adjustments and insists on losing his way.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Will is smarter and knows where to go with the ball but it does not matter. Leach is too hard headed on the OL to change. We have 2 pass protections and 9/10 times we are leaving the OL with no help from a TE or RB. It is not goin to work. I don?t care who he recruits

[MetEdDawg]

Here's the truth:

1) We look like hell

2) We got no spring practice, hardly any summer practice, hired a new coach, and are having to break in completely new everything and get no non conference games to work on development.

We made the biggest change out of anyone in the conference period. But we look like garbage. I expected growing pains. But I didn't expect complete lack of growth. And Leach has to answer for that.

[Dawgface]

You shouldn?t hire a coach who is too dedicated to a system. No adjustments and insists on losing his way.

This all day. We would be doing a lot better having GS at qb with some option running. Not going to happen tho with Leach.

[Homedawg]

This all day. We would be doing a lot better having GS at qb with some option running. Not going to happen tho with Leach.

I love how GS has become the greatest thing since sliced bread.... ha.

[Dawgface]

I love how GS has become the greatest thing since sliced bread.... ha.

No he's not great. He can run and throw a little. The other 2 can throw a little and can't run a lick.

[Mobile Bay]

https://images.amcnetworks.com/ifc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Billy-Madison-1.gif

[ShotgunDawg]

Was gonna wait till after the game to post this but right now Leach is Moorhead 2.0. He is not putting the kids in position to win. The OL cannot do what is being asked of them. He would rather do what he does and lose than adjust. Which is exactly why Moorhead underachieved.

Only difference is Leach is better with discipline but other than that we have a more expensive Moorhead at HC.

I can't help but laugh how you made this post before Will came in

[BuckyIsAB****]

I can't help but laugh how you made this post before Will came in

They still can?t do it. Running drop back over and over with no help for your OL is going to result in sacks. It?s no different than asking Errol Thompson to cover a WR with no help for 9 out of 10 plays.

[BuckyIsAB****]

The OL looked better with Will bc Will knows where to go with the ball. Costello is guessing

[ShotgunDawg]

They still can?t do it. Running drop back over and over with no help for your OL is going to result in sacks. It?s no different than asking Errol Thompson to cover a WR with no help for 9 out of 10 plays.

I liked what I saw from Will. The offense opened up.

This isn't Moorhead at all. We looked right in the 4th

[R2Dawg]

Was gonna wait till after the game to post this but right now Leach is Moorhead 2.0. He is not putting the kids in position to win. The OL cannot do what is being asked of them. He would rather do what he does and lose than adjust. Which is exactly why Moorhead underachieved.

Only difference is Leach is better with discipline but other than that we have a more expensive Moorhead at HC.

Agree. And one reason I didn't like the hire is either the system works or it don't but we have no plan B. Never good. Moorhead was the same way but at least Leach is better discipline.

[ShotgunDawg]

The OL looked better with Will bc Will knows where to go with the ball. Costello is guessing

WE AGREE!!!

[HoopsDawg]

You shouldn?t hire a coach who is too dedicated to a system. No adjustments and insists on losing his way.

Amen to that!! Might have to hire a defensive guy next.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I liked what I saw from Will. The offense opened up.

This isn't Moorhead at all. We looked right in the 4th

?Doing what we do? come hell or high water is Moorhead. Moorhead couldn?t bench a transfer QB either. It took Leach an entire week of practice and 3 quarters to realize Costello is lost as a goose. I could have told you last week at this time that 2 is better. And I could have told you 3 months ago he was smarter and a better leader. The team wants Will

[NCDawg]

No he's not great. He can run and throw a little. The other 2 can throw a little and can't run a lick.

I think Shrader is a pretty good passer. I saw him throw some good passes last year. I think we would be much better off with him at QB, especially since our OL is incapable of giving the QB much protection.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I think Shrader is a pretty good passer. I saw him throw some good passes last year. I think we would be much better off with him at QB, especially since our OL is incapable of giving the QB much protection.

Shrader is more lost mentally than Costello is

[Bothrops]

I have to question Leach's desire to win after not going to Will Rogers in the first half.

[NCDawg]

Shrader is more lost mentally than Costello is

Totally disagree.

[R2Dawg]

?Doing what we do? come hell or high water is Moorhead. Moorhead couldn?t bench a transfer QB either. It took Leach an entire week of practice and 3 quarters to realize Costello is lost as a goose. I could have told you last week at this time that 2 is better. And I could have told you 3 months ago he was smarter and a better leader. The team wants Will

Appears that way. I saw a lot of positive response from team mates. KJ got looks on sidelines. Tough spot to put a transfer QB. I hope we never do it again unless it is second coming of Dak.

[defiantdog]

Shrader is more lost mentally than Costello is
Completely disagree..... Shrader knows how to go through progressions but he typically has more time because the other team has to respect his legs.

[defiantdog]

Appears that way. I saw a lot of positive response from team mates. KJ got looks on sidelines. Tough spot to put a transfer QB. I hope we never do it again unless it is second coming of Dak.

No one ever picked KJ off the ground when he got hit.

[MrCoachKlein]

They still can?t do it. Running drop back over and over with no help for your OL is going to result in sacks. It?s no different than asking Errol Thompson to cover a WR with no help for 9 out of 10 plays.

Why do you think we should leave more guys in to help ol? We already have 5 blocking 3. Don't see how 6-7 vs 3 helps us any. If you can't beat a guy with 2 blockers then 3 won't help plus less dudes stretching the d. Our lack of offense is all on the oline in my opinion and Will > KJ

[MrCoachKlein]

Amen to that!! Might have to hire a defensive guy next.

Seems like hiring a defensive coach is heading backwards these days. All rules favor offense

[maroonmania]

Agree. And one reason I didn't like the hire is either the system works or it don't but we have no plan B. Never good. Moorhead was the same way but at least Leach is better discipline.

Look, I'm willing to give Leach a year or two to get things up and running. I don't think Cohen or Leach factored in a pandemic with no Spring Practice when he was hired. Anyone that already labels Leach as Morehead 2.0 is just being shortsighted. Leach has an 18 year track record of winning with his system as a HC at the P5 level. Morehead doesn't have squat as a HC. If we still look like this next year I will join in on the Leach will never work mantra.

[preachermatt83]

This all day. We would be doing a lot better having GS at qb with some option running. Not going to happen tho with Leach.

He is building a program... not a season

[maroonmania]

Appears that way. I saw a lot of positive response from team mates. KJ got looks on sidelines. Tough spot to put a transfer QB. I hope we never do it again unless it is second coming of Dak.

I agree. Just like Morehead with Tommy Stevens, I think a coach that brings in a one year graduate QB feels obligated to have him start to improve his NFL stock. Probably because that was the selling job used to get him in the first place. So it is difficult to get a coach to bench him unless things just go to hell in a handbasket. But that is just about where we are now. So if you get a guy that works like Minshew then great but if it doesn't then you are in a tough spot.

[PendingTransaction]

Will's last drive was 3 passes behind the LOS. We have systems issues.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I don't get the Shrader love at all. Like thinking he IN A DIFFERENT SYSTEM would be better than what were doing now? Sure. But thinking that hed be better than what we have now in THIS system? Assuming hes not "lost"? He became the 3rd team QB pretty quick. He got moved to WR. Unless you think Leach has an irrational personal hatred of him its unlikely he can execute the O.

And I agree that theres really no point in leaving a RB in to help the OL. They're missing assignments, barely putting hands on people, barely moving theor feet (Eiland os a statue), and arent that physical. In a simple blocking scheme. Vs 3 rushers. until that gets fixed the O will suck, even if Will continues to look good.

Now that Will seems to be able to execute the O, Its OL coaching thats the problem holding the O back.

[Todd4State]

Poor lil MSU. We can't recruit offensive linemen that can pass block in Misssissippi.**

I'd find four JUCO OL that can and kick Hevesy's trash to the curb.

[Todd4State]

Completely disagree..... Shrader knows how to go through progressions but he typically has more time because the other team has to respect his legs.

That's not how this system works. The ball has to get out.

[HoopsDawg]

That's not how this system works. The ball has to get out.

Yeah, but you are thinking of the Mike Leach at WSU offense. They saw all kinds of defenses except when they played Washinton.

The Mike Leach at MSU offense sees only 1 defense.

[FISHDAWG]

Shrader is more lost mentally than Costello is

this is WAYYYYY wrong ... I've said before when nothing is working - give the guy a shot, I promise you he won't slide short of a first down and would probably have less interceptions. Besides, how much accuracy is needed for a 4 yard pass

[Johnson85]

Was gonna wait till after the game to post this but right now Leach is Moorhead 2.0. He is not putting the kids in position to win. The OL cannot do what is being asked of them. He would rather do what he does and lose than adjust. Which is exactly why Moorhead underachieved.

Only difference is Leach is better with discipline but other than that we have a more expensive Moorhead at HC.

Leach being disciplined is not the only difference. There is the difference that Leach ahs proven he can install his system. THere's also the difference that Leach is having to install his system in a 17ed up off season. There probablyh are adjustments he needs to make, but I can cut him some slack for not wanting to go away from what he has seen work until he has given it more than 3 games after a limited off season. Especially when even I could see the WRs were running into coverage in two of those games (didn't get to watch the A&M game closely).

This may be a bust hire, but the only thing I see so far that probably can't be fixed without an adjustment this season is the OL blocking. Not sure if we just need better suited personnel or if we have to make scheme adjustments with either splits or using TEs or RBs to help more on pass blocking.

[bulldawg989]

No one ever picked KJ off the ground when he got hit.

Yeah everyone seems to overlook it but I noticed it against UK too.

I'm not buying "communication" as the excuse for piss poor protection. They're forgetting they all have on the same uniform...I'd be embarrassed by the lack of effort but I suspect the "malcontent virus" is still active.

[NCDawg]

this is WAYYYYY wrong ... I've said before when nothing is working - give the guy a shot, I promise you he won't slide short of a first down and would probably have less interceptions. Besides, how much accuracy is needed for a 4 yard pass

I agree. The QB must be a threat to run in our current offense due to our not very good OL. It seems to me Shrader fits that bill more than any of our other QB's; plus, from what I've seen, he's a pretty good passer

[defiantdog]

Yeah everyone seems to overlook it but I noticed it against UK too.

I'm not buying "communication" as the excuse for piss poor protection. They're forgetting they all have on the same uniform...I'd be embarrassed by the lack of effort but I suspect the "malcontent virus" is still active.
Same thing is happening with Auburn..... Nix has become toxic and the team doesn't want to play for him. Coaches only do so much..... every team needs a Dak to keep everyone motivated for 60 minutes.

[Matt3467]

Truth: Leach would have a NC had he not been fired from Tech. Arguably should've been playing for one in '08 but imagine Leach with Patrick Mahomes. There's a few people on here that have been Never Leachers from the get-go and are proud to point and say "see! I told ya so!" Well if this was Moorhead or any other coach without any prolonged history as a HC I may even have fallen victim to that way of thinking as well but this guy has been a HC since 2000 and quite simply has more wins than losses so I'm willing to give him time and by time I mean 3 - 4 years for results. So much of this fanbase has been jaded by the little success we had with Mullen that if a guy doesn't come in and win here in year 0.5 or 1 then it's time to fire him. Maybe some of you just don't care or think but what coach is going to want to come here if he's not given time to bring in his players and install his system. As a rule a guy should have one full recruiting cycle freshman to senior to see what he's capable of.

[Jarius]

Yeah, but you are thinking of the Mike Leach at WSU offense. They saw all kinds of defenses except when they played Washinton.

The Mike Leach at MSU offense sees only 1 defense.

Leach has whooped better defenses consistently throughout his career than the one he is currently being defeated by. It won’t get better until he gets his guys on the OL. You can argue whether or not he should change his system before he gets the personnel to run it so we aren’t completely trash for a year or 2 but anyone that thinks Leach won’t get it turned around offensively if he is given enough time is kidding themselves.

[bulldawg28]

Leach has whooped better defenses consistently throughout his career than the one he is currently being defeated by. It won’t get better until he gets his guys on the OL. You can argue whether or not he should change his system before he gets the personnel to run it so we aren’t completely trash for a year or 2 but anyone that thinks Leach won’t get it turned around offensively if he is given enough time is kidding themselves.

It's poor coaching if you're going to stick your head in the sand until everything aligns perfectly. He should be adjusting until whatever he's looking for happens.

[Jarius]

It's poor coaching if you're going to stick your head in the sand until everything aligns perfectly. He should be adjusting until whatever he's looking for happens.

Hard to disagree with that. That is not what most people are worried about though. Most think it is never going to work because it isn’t working with offensive linemen that were largely recruited to play in a power run scheme. That line of thinking is ridiculous.

[ShotgunDawg]

I realize we've got a lot of opinions here and I'm not saying any are wrong.

However, it's important to weight your opinion with the fact that we're talking about 3 games here. Just 3 games.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I realize we've got a lot of opinions here and I'm not saying any are wrong.

However, it's important to weight your opinion with the fact that we're talking about 3 games here. Just 3 games.

3 games in YEAR 1 after we fired a coach we all thought put us back YEARS! I remember in December of last year the narrative was that we needed to pull the plug now and "just" have 2020 suck, vs keep joe and waste the first 2 years of whoever follows him. We all thought he had set the program back.

Yet now, people think Leach will enver work. If Costello mentally grasped the system we'd be 3-1 and everyone would be happy. People are literally letting the failure of 1 transfer QB 4 games into year 1 dictate how they view Leach

[preachermatt83]

Leach has whooped better defenses consistently throughout his career than the one he is currently being defeated by. It won?t get better until he gets his guys on the OL. You can argue whether or not he should change his system before he gets the personnel to run it so we aren?t completely trash for a year or 2 but anyone that thinks Leach won?t get it turned around offensively if he is given enough time is kidding themselves.

Accept your rep sir. Outstanding post

[Homedawg]

3 games in YEAR 1 after we fired a coach we all thought put us back YEARS! I remember in December of last year the narrative was that we needed to pull the plug now and "just" have 2020 suck, vs keep joe and waste the first 2 years of whoever follows him. We all thought he had set the program back.

Yet now, people think Leach will enver work. If Costello mentally grasped the system we'd be 3-1 and everyone would be happy. People are literally letting the failure of 1 transfer QB 4 games into year 1 dictate how they view Leach

This isn't all on Costello. If you think it is you aren't watching.

[preachermatt83]

3 games in YEAR 1 after we fired a coach we all thought put us back YEARS! I remember in December of last year the narrative was that we needed to pull the plug now and "just" have 2020 suck, vs keep joe and waste the first 2 years of whoever follows him. We all thought he had set the program back.

Yet now, people think Leach will enver work. If Costello mentally grasped the system we'd be 3-1 and everyone would be happy. People are literally letting the failure of 1 transfer QB 4 games into year 1 dictate how they view Leach

Truth

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

This isn't all on Costello. If you think it is you aren't watching.

The OL sucks too. But even if they stayed the same we beat Arky and Kentucky if KJ was good. Whereas I'm not sure Kj doesn't throw just as many picks if the OL could block. thus, it's QB play that's causing everyone to say Leach is a failure.

[R2Dawg]

I realize we've got a lot of opinions here and I'm not saying any are wrong.

However, it's important to weight your opinion with the fact that we're talking about 3 games here. Just 3 games.

Well it is 3 games of the worst MSU O in history, capped with the D that he has yet to show anything against. He gets a pass this year but it will warm heading into next year if the O doesn't show something starting next year.

[HoopsDawg]

The OL sucks too. But even if they stayed the same we beat Arky and Kentucky if KJ was good. Whereas I'm not sure Kj doesn't throw just as many picks if the OL could block. thus, it's QB play that's causing everyone to say Leach is a failure.

We don't beat LSU with Will. Either Leach adapts or he will fail and MSU will suffer.

[Johnson85]

It's poor coaching if you're going to stick your head in the sand until everything aligns perfectly. He should be adjusting until whatever he's looking for happens.

Three games after a limited off season. I'm not saying he doesn't need to adjust and won't need to adjust, but he's trying to install his system. If he abandoned stuff that worked in the past because his guys don't pick it up immediately, he'd never get his system installed.

I will say, just like I said after the UK game in 2018, if your system doesn't allow you to adjust to give help against a pass rusher that is too good for your tackle, then your system is not a system that will work. That said, if you have 5 guys getting beat by three, and a DL consistently runs by your center before the center even gets his hands up, I'm not sure how much you can fix with adjustments. Certainly narrow the splits at least around the center so somebody can put a hand on the guy, but if you've got 5 getting beat by 3, you have a talent problem or a basic OL skills coaching problem, and adding more blockers might give you some more time but it's going to make it much harder to get people open.