How MSU can Easily Beat the 3-8

[ShotgunDawg]

Just watched Wyatt's video.

Everyone keeps saying run it more but I disagree. When watching Wyatt's video, all we simply have to do to beat the 3-8 is make the RB the first read.

On all these plays, if the ball is dumped to the RB quickly, he's got a full head of steam and 10 yards in front of him. What we did, however, was look deep and check down to the RB after he lost his full head of steam.

On MSU's 1st drive against KY, if we'll just make the RB the 1st read, it's over and they'll be out of 3-8 real fast

Watch this video and see for yourself.


https://youtu.be/pWY8j7M1hUg

[hp22]

1. Losing Hill killed us. Especially late when we had multiple shots in red zone. But hey, next man up. I thought Johnson looked good and Mark's had his moments.

2. Our receivers have really never seen a defensive gameplan like that. Finding zone soft spots is a skill. We started pressing offensively.

3. I agree on the first read comment.

4. I also wish we would be more creative when we do run and attack the left and right tackle of the LOS.

5. I also thought a jet sweep to a WR in motion would have been effective given their alignment.

I trust the coaching staff and they will adjust. Our offense will also gradually get more comfortable facing alignments geared toward keeping the ball in front.

[tenureplan]

This, what I've been saying.

[Turfdawg67]

1. Losing Hill killed us. Especially late when we had multiple shots in red zone. But hey, next man up. I thought Johnson looked good and Mark's had his moments.

2. Our receivers have really never seen a defensive gameplan like that. Finding zone soft spots is a skill. We started pressing offensively.

3. I agree on the first read comment.

4. I also wish we would be more creative when we do run and attack the left and right tackle of the LOS.

5. I also thought a jet sweep to a WR in motion would have been effective given their alignment.

I trust the coaching staff and they will adjust. Our offense will also gradually get more comfortable facing alignments geared toward keeping the ball in front.

I keep seeing this, but surely Leach practices it... as he expects most teams to run a zone D. This wasn't on our receivers, but, IMO, a QB that wasn't patient and wanted the BIG play and thus forced a lot of throws that he didn't have to.

I agree w/ you and 'Gun in the fact that losing Hill killed us, in spite of the turnovers. Against UK, I would run sweeps and quick hits to KH all game until they change their D. He'll gain 5-10 yds every time against a 3-8.

[MaroonFlounder]

The rain might win this game. I think we will be playing in a monsoon. Does that help or hurt us? I'm worried that the air raid will not work in this game. UK is a running team. They will likely win.

[Coach34]

Gonna be wet- advantage Kentucky.

But we should be the better team.

Makes for a fun watch

[ShotgunDawg]

I'm seeing a lot of losing Hill hurt us, but it really shouldn't matter who the RB is. He's wide ass open. Make him the 1st read and after 3-4 straight easy 10 yards gains, they'll be forced out of the 3-8

[KOdawg1]

This wasn't on our receivers, but, IMO, a QB that wasn't patient and wanted the BIG play and thus forced a lot of throws that he didn't have to.


I agree. He got used to big play after big play down in Baton Rouge, and tried to replicate that, but ended up forcing things.

[KOdawg1]

I'm seeing a lot of losing Hill hurt us, but it really shouldn't matter who the RB is. He's wide ass open. Make him the 1st read and after 3-4 straight easy 10 yards gains, they'll be forced out of the 3-8

Good observations.

[Homedawg]

I don't understand the fear of the 3-8. We could get 5 yards every play on the dump down the other night. We didn't but could have. If we ran it for 5 a pop every play people would come unglued if we ever threw it!! Just take what's there and go w it.

[ShotgunDawg]

I don't understand the fear of the 3-8. We could get 5 yards every play on the dump down the other night. We didn't but could have. If we ran it for 5 a pop every play people would come unglued if we ever threw it!! Just take what's there and go w it.

The 3-8 isn't fearful. We just didn't attack it right.

In reality, it Leach's fault. He should've told KJ after the first series to 17 the play and just dump it to the RB immediately

[Todd4State]

I don't understand the fear of the 3-8. We could get 5 yards every play on the dump down the other night. We didn't but could have. If we ran it for 5 a pop every play people would come unglued if we ever threw it!! Just take what's there and go w it.

THIS! And this is why I'm not too concerned about our offense. Costello will either learn from Arkansas or he will sit.


The 3-8 isn't fearful. We just didn't attack it right.

In reality, it Leach's fault. He should've told KJ after the first series to 17 the play and just dump it to the RB immediately

After watching Wyatt's video it looks like KJ was late on a lot of throws that were there as well.

[DownwardDawg]

I'm seeing a lot of losing Hill hurt us, but it really shouldn't matter who the RB is. He's wide ass open. Make him the 1st read and after 3-4 straight easy 10 yards gains, they'll be forced out of the 3-8

Our RB's fell down when the Arkansas defenders looked at us with a mean face. Kylin would have stomped a mud hole in their asses.

[ShotgunDawg]

Our RB's fell down when the Arkansas defenders looked at us with a mean face. Kylin would have stomped a mud hole in their asses.

Agree, but Arkansas wouldn't have touched the RB for 8 yards with a quick pass

[Joebob]

One thing I noticed too was that K.J. had all day to throw, and could have used some pump fakes to get the defenders moving the wrong way. It takes a little extra time for that, but he had plenty of it. Arkansas was reacting so quickly to the ball that a pump fake now and then could have made them pay for that.

[Cooterpoot]

Our RB's fell down when the Arkansas defenders looked at us with a mean face. Kylin would have stomped a mud hole in their asses.

Not true. You obviously missed the TD run. KJ held onto it too long before dumping It off. AR also apparently knew our signals. Also, our OL got killed when we tried to run it. On the 4th plays, they knew our play and brought pressure too.

[DownwardDawg]

Not true. You obviously missed the TD run. KJ held onto it too long before dumping It off. AR also apparently knew our signals. Also, our OL got killed when we tried to run it. On the 4th plays, they knew our play and brought pressure too.

You must have watched the Hail State highlights instead of the game I watched.

[munk_munk92]

There were tons of guys open. KJ just has to anticipate and hit the guys in the open spots between the zones and like you said if anything else hit the running back. I saw where a lot of our linemen missed blocks during the running plays. A good block here and there and we spring one loose for a big gain. Just clean it up and execute and we will going away easily.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Not true. You obviously missed the TD run. KJ held onto it too long before dumping It off. AR also apparently knew our signals. Also, our OL got killed when we tried to run it. On the 4th plays, they knew our play and brought pressure too.

I take them stealing signals with a grain of salt. Hell, when Leach was at WSU he basically told the DC what was coming and they couldn't stop it. Think it was against ASU. Let me see if I can find it.

[thf24]

They supposedly knew our signals and still gave up over 400 yards of offense. That's terrible. If I were them I probably would have kept that nugget to myself.

Our struggles were almost 100% self-inflicted; end of story.

[Irondawg]

Shotgun - I put the same observation over on the other board yesterday. If you throw the ball out in front it’s at least 5 yards every time.

If we had the Outside receiver commit to block and the slot guy take out the LB then it’s even more.

Plus that’s a 95% completion pass so almost no chance you make a bad throw or get a int trying to squeeze it into an opening.

NFL teams run this against a prevent a lot to get 7-10 yards a pop until they get in the red zone

[Irondawg]

I’ll also say that while we did throw to our backs a lot we did it late and stared them down. Ok this then all needs to come out quick to them and allows them to turn and get going before engaging a defender.

If an SEC RB can’t make a single defender miss at least 1 out of 3-4 times then they aren’t an true SEC rb.

[MaroonFlounder]

The 3-8 isn't fearful. We just didn't attack it right.

In reality, it Leach's fault. He should've told KJ after the first series to 17 the play and just dump it to the RB immediately

And then after several dump-offs to the RB, as they start to react quickly to that, pump fake to the back and then someone possibly comes open on a deeper route, assuming there is time before pressure comes.

[Maroonthirteen]

We checked it down plenty. We threw underneath plenty. Arkansas just reacted fast and had us out numbered.

3 rushing. Dropped 3 lbs underneath (at or near the stick) and 5 DBs in between the top and over the top. Problem was when we checked it down or ran a draw. Arkansas had 2-3 guys near the ball in a second and we 5 linemen in the backfield and 4 receivers 20 yards up field not even turned around. Hell, on some occasions K.J. dumped it off before the WR running long even had his head turned.

As Leach said, it isn't the first time he has seen a 3-8 defense. However I'm just praying we didn't prepare for it and he has more in his play book to counter the 3-8. Because Running mesh and two go long.... ain't going to cut it.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

We checked it down plenty. We threw underneath plenty. Arkansas just reacted fast and had us out numbered.

3 rushing. Dropped 3 lbs underneath (at or near the stick) and 5 DBs in between the top and over the top. Problem was when we checked it down or ran a draw. Arkansas had 2-3 guys near the ball in a second and we 5 linemen in the backfield and 4 receivers 20 yards up field not even turned around. Hell, on some occasions K.J. dumped it off before the WR running long even had his head turned.

As Leach said, it isn't the first time he has seen a 3-8 defense. However I'm just praying we didn't prepare for it and he has more in his play book to counter the 3-8. Because Running mesh and two go long.... ain't going to cut it.

Bolded the key parts regarding RB passes out of the backfield. Look at the tape of Wyatts' breakdown:

The RB checkdown was ALWAYS after going through several reads. The receivers were downfield, the RB was usually flatfooted, the DB could run forward as soon as the ball was thrown as the RB waited with no momentum.

What we're saying is make the RB the main target: the WRs could block the CBs (Arky's safeties were way to far away to help), and the RB running full speed with the ball in front means he'd likely get the edge on the RB. It would be 2 blockers on 2 immediate defenders, and LB trailing, and a S that can't get there till late. It's 7-11 yards every time with big play potential. Completely different kind of RB pass.

And as for "running mesh and having 2 go long" not working... well, I definitely think it's hard to execute at that high of a level of again Wyatts' breakdown shows we left PLENTY of yards on the field do to timing issues and the QB/WR making the wrong reads. All of that will get better with reps

[ShotgunDawg]

And then after several dump-offs to the RB, as they start to react quickly to that, pump fake to the back and then someone possibly comes open on a deeper route, assuming there is time before pressure comes.

Well yeah. Once they react to covering the RB, then they're no longer in a 3-8 and it opens up the mid range passing game.

[ShotgunDawg]

We checked it down plenty. We threw underneath plenty. Arkansas just reacted fast and had us out numbered.

3 rushing. Dropped 3 lbs underneath (at or near the stick) and 5 DBs in between the top and over the top. Problem was when we checked it down or ran a draw. Arkansas had 2-3 guys near the ball in a second and we 5 linemen in the backfield and 4 receivers 20 yards up field not even turned around. Hell, on some occasions K.J. dumped it off before the WR running long even had his head turned.

As Leach said, it isn't the first time he has seen a 3-8 defense. However I'm just praying we didn't prepare for it and he has more in his play book to counter the 3-8. Because Running mesh and two go long.... ain't going to cut it.

You're not getting it.

Yes WE CHECKED DOWN. If the RB is #1 read, then there is 10 yards there untouched. They'd have to adjust after 8 plays or so

[Maroonthirteen]

You're not getting it.

Yes WE CHECKED DOWN. If the RB is #1 read, then there is 10 yards there untouched. They'd have to adjust after 8 plays or so

I'm talking what really happened vs your hypothetical.

Those arkansas LBs didn't get 10 yards beyond the LOS until they saw the QB Faked the handoff and the WR were running deep. They showed a few different looks and were right to the Los mostly and didn't bail until they saw fake and wr going.

I'm saying the same as y'all in a different way. Designed plays with rb as first option. Yep. Sounds good. But In my words, Leach better get deeper in the playbook this week and be teaching those plays this week.