Defensive Depth Chart

[confucius say]

Anybody got a feel for this after seeing the roster?

[Ifyouonlyknew]

DE - Jones
NG - Crumedy/Pickering
DE - Spencer
Hybrid - Davis
LB - Thompson
LB - Brule
CB - Emerson
CB - Forbes
Dog - Murphy
FS - Peters
SS - Preston/Duncan

[confucius say]

True freshman corner unh.

What you think about arnett?

[KOdawg1]

The starting 11 should be solid. It's the depth behind them that's concerning

[maroonmania]

The starting 11 should be solid. It's the depth behind them that's concerning

Outside of Murphy, I don't see any way we can call our starting secondary solid.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Outside of Murphy, I don't see any way we can call our starting secondary solid.

Emerson & Peters will be solid.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

True freshman corner unh.

What you think about arnett?

Hard to know yet.

[WinningIsRelentless]

Peters and Emerson are both solid. Peters should have gotten more reps last year in my opinion.

[HailStateSZN19]

DE - Jones
NG - Crumedy/Pickering
DE - Spencer
Hybrid - Davis
LB - Thompson
LB - Brule
CB - Emerson
CB - Forbes
Dog - Murphy
FS - Peters
SS - Preston/Duncan

Forbes is going to get baptized into it. May be rough for several games but he'll be much better for it towards the end of the year and then next season. Much like Emerson last year.

"Welcome to MSU/the SEC kid, now go cover Jamarr Chase/Terrace Marshall/McMath in your first start. Oh, and it's on the road in Death Valley".

And dang, that front 6 could be stout. How do you feel about the 2-deepers behind the starters on the front 6?

[Coach34]

Thats going to be the worst D we have put on the field in awhile.

[Johnson85]

Thats going to be the worst D we have put on the field in awhile.

Reminds me a 2012. Plenty of solid players, but no playmakers. Not sure I see anybody that is going to be disruptive or demand a double team, and then you couple that with an inexperienced secondary.

ETA: If arnett can create a disruptive defense with his scheme and this defense, I think we'll have reason to feel really good about him. Even if his total defensive stats don't look good, if he creates turnovers and three and outs by being aggressive at the expense of giving up a lot of big plays, I'm not sure that's a terrible approach with Leach's offense (eventually; not sure the offense will be particularly good this year).

[Captain Falcon]

Thats going to be the worst D we have put on the field in awhile.

I have experienced a Peter Sirmon defense and can?t imagine it being any worse than that. Don?t think it?ll be ?good? but may not be as bad as you?d think.

I actually like our front six, think they?ll be pretty solid. Secondary is absolutely a major question but if nothing else at least it?s young guys that will be going through this, and hopefully they?ll be better for it in 2021 and 2022.

[RiverCityDawg]

Reminds me a 2012. Plenty of solid players, but no playmakers. Not sure I see anybody that is going to be disruptive or demand a double team, and then you couple that with an inexperienced secondary.

I think Erroll, Pickering, Davis, Emerson and Murphy can be playmakers. Forbes had a ton of picks in HS (yes, HS) so I could see him making some big plays but also giving up some big plays being a true freshman.

I'm concerned about depth and holding up over the course of a game/season. I think we'll fly around but just won't have the horses to consistently get stops. I hope we're ultra aggressive and go for broke, because I fear the bend but don't break approach will just lead to consistently breaking.

[msstate7]

I saw Forbes against Neshoba central last year. He was electric. He was also very thin. Pretty surprised he's projected to start day 1. Pretty concerning he could be covering LSU's WRs in first action.

[maroonmania]

Thats going to be the worst D we have put on the field in awhile.

Besides the fact that there haven't been as many impact defensive players in the state lately, we've missed out on several high profile guys that went out of state. AL is really getting us lately taking Byron Young, Turnage and just took Callaway from us in this year's class. But there really haven't been any Fletcher Cox/Chris Jones/Jeff Simmons type players come out lately. Hoping Pickering can get close to that level.

[HoopsDawg]

I saw Forbes against Neshoba central last year. He was electric. He was also very thin. Pretty surprised he's projected to start day 1. Pretty concerning he could be covering LSU's WRs in first action.

on a normal SEC roster, Forbes would redshirt this year. Run 2nd team as a Redshirt Freshman. And then compete for a starting spot his 3rd year in the program. Yes, it's concerning.

Peters and Emerson have played, but I wouldn't call them proven players. Davis and Brule haven't played at this level. Murphy played in only 4 games last year. And then I'm not sure what has happend with our SS recruiting. Seems we sign 2 SS's every year, but we don't have a ton of talent at that spot. Obviously, losing Jarrian Jones, Tyler Williams and Cam Dantlzer early hasn't helped.

[maroonmania]

I saw Forbes against Neshoba central last year. He was electric. He was also very thin. Pretty surprised he's projected to start day 1. Pretty concerning he could be covering LSU's WRs in first action.

So none of Korey Charles, Esias Furdge or Jaylon Reed are SEC quality CBs? Also, anyone know what the deal is with Tyler Williams?

[Walkerhill]

So none of Korey Charles, Esias Furdge or Jaylon Reed are SEC quality CBs? Also, anyone know what the deal is with Tyler Williams?

Or Kyle Cass?

[ShotgunDawg]

Thats going to be the worst D we have put on the field in awhile.

Won’t be great but it won’t be a Sirmon or Tutor gate bad defense.

Our defense vs Auburn, Texas A&M, and Bama last year were the worst MSU defensive efforts I’ve ever seen

[ShotgunDawg]

Besides the fact that there haven't been as many impact defensive players in the state lately, we've missed out on several high profile guys that went out of state. AL is really getting us lately taking Byron Young, Turnage and just took Callaway from us in this year's class. But there really haven't been any Fletcher Cox/Chris Jones/Jeff Simmons type players come out lately. Hoping Pickering can get close to that level.

I wouldn’t count Calloway yet.

Young, Derrick Hall, Turnage, and Charles Moore going crazy are the biggest ones.

This is the price Of 3 coaching staffs in 3 years. You can’t win crooting battles against blue bloods when they have head coach/program stability and you don’t.

[Captain Falcon]

So none of Korey Charles, Esias Furdge or Jaylon Reed are SEC quality CBs? Also, anyone know what the deal is with Tyler Williams?

At least two of those guys will have to play out of necessity but I'm not sure if any of them are SEC quality guys. Furdge is probably the most likely to contribute of those three if I had to guess. He's only a sophomore so I'm not ready to write him off yet. Reed had a really weird recruitment in that he committed to us, we dropped him, and then we gave him a scholarship again at the last minute before signing day, so I was always iffy on if he would ever contribute. But he's still a young guy so who knows. Charles is a fifth year senior and he's not even really being discussed as a starting option at corner, I don't mean to pick on the guy but that should probably tell you what you need to know there.

The problem with all of those guys is we've recruited better players after them who have surpassed them. Emerson, Forbes, and arguably even Richardson are younger guys who are ahead of them on the depth chart in all likelihood. So I'm not sure how much of an opportunity any of them will ever really get unless we are just decimated with injuries.

[NWADAWG]

DE - Jones
NG - Crumedy/Pickering
DE - Spencer
Hybrid - Davis
LB - Thompson
LB - Brule
CB - Emerson
CB - Forbes
Dog - Murphy
FS - Peters
SS - Preston/Duncan

Are there any players that will make more than typical gains due to improved strength and conditioning?

[Johnson85]

I think Erroll, Pickering, Davis, Emerson and Murphy can be playmakers. Forbes had a ton of picks in HS (yes, HS) so I could see him making some big plays but also giving up some big plays being a true freshman.

I'm concerned about depth and holding up over the course of a game/season. I think we'll fly around but just won't have the horses to consistently get stops. I hope we're ultra aggressive and go for broke, because I fear the bend but don't break approach will just lead to consistently breaking.

I should have clarified playmakers in the front. In 2012 we had Banks and Slay. Did have a pretty big weak link at FS in Nikoe who was playing basically injured that sort of negated the benefit of having two lock down corners, and completely negated some games as however Chris Wilson taught them to line up made it easy for other teams to manipulate Nikoe into covering their best receiver (e.g., Moncrief in egg bowl).

Maybe Erroll having better strength and conditioning this year will be a game changer for him, but he didn't seem like a playmaker last year. Don't know about Jordan. Pickering maybe has a chance but you really have to be good to cause problems form the interior DL and I'm not sure he's there yet. Spencer and Kobe both seem like sold DL to me but not gamechangers. SPencer is another guy like Erroll that hasn't turned into what I was expecting based on production as a young player. Maybe he's fully recovered from his injury now and with the new strength and conditioning program, will show out.

[maroonmania]

Or Kyle Cass?

Cass listed on the roster as a Safety.

[Cowbell]

Thats going to be the worst D we have put on the field in awhile.
Just imagine if we would have kept jomo to coach it lol

[Cowbell]

There is no way it will be worse than what we watched last year. No way. Due to effort alone.

[R2Dawg]

Emerson & Peters will be solid.

Both are solid and may even be better than solid. Peters has the look of a serious head hunter. Can't wait to see what he does. Emerson has some ball hawk skills too.

[R2Dawg]

There is no way it will be worse than what we watched last year. No way. Due to effort alone.

Agree 100%

[Leeshouldveflanked]

We just gonna have to score more points than the other team!**

[maroonmania]

There is no way it will be worse than what we watched last year. No way. Due to effort alone.

Also, no way it will be worse than what we got under Mullen with Sirmon.

[Ari Gold]

Emerson is as good or better than Dantzler was at this point in their careers.

[Jack Lambert]

Also, no way it will be worse than what we got under Mullen with Sirmon.

I like our DC. That defense is going to give QB's trouble reading.

[WSOPdawg]

I like our DC. That defense is going to give QB's trouble reading.

Yep, our DC came from San Diego State, who was one of the top Defenses in the Group-of-6 for the past 5 years or so. This was a very under-rated hire that Leach made imo.

[ShotgunDawg]

I like our DC. That defense is going to give QB's trouble reading.

Let see how you feel 4 min left in the 1st Quarter vs LSU

[Commercecomet24]

The starting 11 should be solid. It's the depth behind them that's concerning

Delete

[confucius say]

Yep, our DC came from San Diego State, who was one of the top Defenses in the Group-of-6 for the past 5 years or so. This was a very under-rated hire that Leach made imo.

I hear ya, but the head coach rocky long called the defense at SDSU. Leach really wanted long, I believe, since long was retiring. Long wouldn't put off retirement to come work with his buddy leach, so leach got Longs protege, arnett.

[Walkerhill]

I hear ya, but the head coach rocky long called the defense at SDSU. Leach really wanted long, I believe, since long was retiring. Long wouldn't put off retirement to come work with his buddy leach, so leach got Longs protege, arnett.

Long did not retire. He stepped down as head coach and took a dc position, I think at New Mexico.

Not sure what the story was there. But they are postponed with no fall ball so maybe Long could consult with us or something.

[msstate7]

Let see how you feel 4 min left in the 1st Quarter vs LSU

If Brennan can throw it in the general area of chase, we won't stop them

[confucius say]

Long did not retire. He stepped down as head coach and took a dc position, I think at New Mexico.

Not sure what the story was there. But they are postponed with no fall ball so maybe Long could consult with us or something.

Got ya. The story I heard was he didn't want to be a head coach anymore and deal with all that entails. Just wanted to focus on defense, his specialty. Didn't realize he took the dc job at New Mexico

[SmokeyDawg]

If Brennan can throw it in the general area of chase, we won't stop them

They better keep him in bubble wrap and in a bubble because they don't have a QB behind him

[Homedawg]

This is a game of jimmy"a and joe's unless moorhead is coaching them.

[Jarius]

Reminds me a 2012. Plenty of solid players, but no playmakers. Not sure I see anybody that is going to be disruptive or demand a double team, and then you couple that with an inexperienced secondary.

ETA: If arnett can create a disruptive defense with his scheme and this defense, I think we'll have reason to feel really good about him. Even if his total defensive stats don't look good, if he creates turnovers and three and outs by being aggressive at the expense of giving up a lot of big plays, I'm not sure that's a terrible approach with Leach's offense (eventually; not sure the offense will be particularly good this year).


We had plenty of playmakers in 2012. We had the Thorpe award winner and a current pro bowl corner in the same secondary. We had an awful DC that had no business getting that job.

[Jarius]

So none of Korey Charles, Esias Furdge or Jaylon Reed are SEC quality CBs? Also, anyone know what the deal is with Tyler Williams?



He quit on his team a month before the season and held a valuable scholarship hostage at a big position of need because he all of a sudden doesn’t know if he wants to play football any more.

[Homedawg]

He quit on his team a month before the season and held a valuable scholarship hostage at a big position of need because he all of a sudden doesn?t know if he wants to play football any more.

Well by then the league has already said they were gonna honor all scholarships so you think he was going to walk away from all that?? Free easy money.

[Jarius]

Well by then the league has already said they were gonna honor all scholarships so you think he was going to walk away from all that?? Free easy money.

Oh I never expected him to walk away from it. Graduating from MSU debt free and not fulfilling your obligations to do so is a good gig if you can get it.

[Todd4State]

This is a game of jimmy"a and joe's unless moorhead is coaching them.

I agree with that. But the thing about the game today is the Jimmy's and Joe's also have to be well conditioned and have discipline too. And that's where Joe ultimately failed.

[trojandawg]

I expect Purvis to break in the depth chart somewhere.

[Johnson85]

We had plenty of playmakers in 2012. We had the Thorpe award winner and a current pro bowl corner in the same secondary. We had an awful DC that had no business getting that job.

I clarified in another post that I meant in the front 7. And while Wilson did a terrible job, it's also really had to play defense in the SEC without a single DL that needs to be double teamed. And we played Cherrington a lot that year if that tells you anything about our DL.

On the other hand, we did have Denico Autry, who I always thought just needed a year to get adjusted to the SEC, but it probably is pretty likely that Wilson must have held him back some, because usually your JUCOs with NFL talent manage to adjust midway through their first season.

[msu15]

Thats going to be the worst D we have put on the field in awhile.

As usual, you are wrong. You're getting senile in your old age.

[Homedawg]

As usual, you are wrong. You're getting senile in your old age.

I'll side closer to coach on this.. Our defense wasn't good last year and we lost several major pieces, hard to see it being a whole lot better. Juco's usually take half a season to get up to speed. might see a jump halfway through. We shall see.

[confucius say]

I'll side closer to coach on this.. Our defense wasn't good last year and we lost several major pieces, hard to see it being a whole lot better. Juco's usually take half a season to get up to speed. might see a jump halfway through. We shall see.

I think it will be on par with last year. Especially since gay only played 3.5 games and dantzler what, 7? Losing Lovett and rivers hurt. Jones sucked last year, Forbes can give you this year what jones gave you last year.

You seem to agree. C34 said it will be worse. We will see.

[Jarius]

I clarified in another post that I meant in the front 7. And while Wilson did a terrible job, it's also really had to play defense in the SEC without a single DL that needs to be double teamed. And we played Cherrington a lot that year if that tells you anything about our DL.

On the other hand, we did have Denico Autry, who I always thought just needed a year to get adjusted to the SEC, but it probably is pretty likely that Wilson must have held him back some, because usually your JUCOs with NFL talent manage to adjust midway through their first season.

Yea I believe that Wilson was the problem. B. McKinney was also on that defense. He's a STUD for the Texans. Cam Lawrence made an NFL roster. Autry is playing lights out in the NFL. Josh Boyd made an NFL roster. A Thorpe award winning corner. An all pro corner. Preston Smith was not developed yet but he's a monster and was also on the roster and played.

[Jarius]

As usual, you are wrong. You're getting senile in your old age.

I'll say I would much rather have problems in the secondary than problems in the front 7 and I don't think it will be a worse defense than Sirmon, but I'm not expecting much.

[Coach34]

There is no way it will be worse than what we watched last year. No way. Due to effort alone.

We are worse at LB, Safety, and CB. Our front is middle of the pack SEC at the very best. We have zero depth. Sure, I expect a better effort and for us to be well-coached- but that only goes so far. Hell, we were well-coached on D last year. We just don?t have the impact players needed to stop SEC athletes or handle good SEC OL?s. Bet the overs early before Vegas figures it out

[Coach34]

As usual, you are wrong. You're getting senile in your old age.

I love these kinds of posts. File this one along with we can beat LSU/Orgeron is an awful Coach, we have a chance to win at Auburn, we have a chance to win at A&M/Jimbo sux, no way we have a losing season in 2019, and now that Joe has his QB our offense will be one of the SEC’s best

[confucius say]

We are worse at LB, Safety, and CB. Our front is middle of the pack SEC at the very best. We have zero depth. Sure, I expect a better effort and for us to be well-coached- but that only goes so far. Hell, we were well-coached on D last year. We just don?t have the impact players needed to stop SEC athletes or handle good SEC OL?s. Bet the overs early before Vegas figures it out

Why do you think this defense will be worse than last year?
How are we worse at lb and safety?

It will be hard to tell honestly, just due to the fact that we play 10 sec games with no sucky teams to rest players against. This defense could be better but be beat up and injured and allow more points just due to the schedule.

[Johnson85]

Why do you think this defense will be worse than last year?
How are we worse at lb and safety?

It will be hard to tell honestly, just due to the fact that we play 10 sec games with no sucky teams to rest players against. This defense could be better but be beat up and injured and allow more points just due to the schedule.

I don't think our defense will be as bad as our worst defensive games last year. Probably won't be any better than our best games and may be worse. But you're right it will be hard to compare playing a ten game SEC schedule.

[SmokeyDawg]

I love these kinds of posts. File this one along with we can beat LSU/Orgeron is an awful Coach, we have a chance to win at Auburn, we have a chance to win at A&M/Jimbo sux, no way we have a losing season in 2019, and now that Joe has his QB our offense will be one of the SEC’s best

Wait, you think Jimbo has been a good coach the last 5 years?

[Coach34]

Wait, you think Jimbo has been a good coach the last 5 years?

Jimbo has now flipped the roster and gotten the talent level closer to the top as opposed to out of the middle. They should be pretty damn good this year. If he throws out a 6-4 this Fall then its a definite bad look. They should be an 8 win team

[TrapGame]

We are worse at LB, Safety, and CB. Our front is middle of the pack SEC at the very best. We have zero depth. Sure, I expect a better effort and for us to be well-coached- but that only goes so far. Hell, we were well-coached on D last year. We just don?t have the impact players needed to stop SEC athletes or handle good SEC OL?s. Bet the overs early before Vegas figures it out

No, we had a disease from top to bottom thanks to Joe. We were not well coached on D last year. We looked better when the Tutorgate guys got to play but I don't think the defense was well coached. We will be better coached this year but, like you say, the talent gap is going to rear its ugly head in about half the games we play.

[Coach34]

Why do you think this defense will be worse than last year?
How are we worse at lb and safety?

The kid from Grenada is going to be an excellent cover CB. He needs to RS. He is going to get wrecked when he has to tackle an SEC RB that weighs 200 pounds. He weighed 160 in the Fall- he may be 170 now- but he aint ready for SEC tackling. He's a 7 on 7 Specialist right now. We were good at CB last year with Dantzler and Smitherman- we dropped off considerably after Smitherman got hurt.

Murphy can play. He will be pretty good.

Thompson can play the run damn well- struggles in pass coverage. He is not in the NFL because he was projected a late round pick last April. Gay played 4 games and look where he got picked? Losing experience in Washington and Leo hurts this group also

Our DL has no pass rushers and we dont have "that guy" who can be that Nose who makes offenses worried about. We do have a chance to be decent against the run.

We lost 8 of our top 12 tacklers from 2019. In almost every world a defense takes a step back the next year when that happens unless they have an ultra-talented group of young guys. We dont have that.

Add lack of depth to that and the possibility of 50 passes per game on offense vs 35 to extend games.

We will struggle alot on D in 2020- especially when we get a few injuries- which always happens

[BrunswickDawg]

https://twitter.com/tbhorka/status/1296618792760619008?s=21

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

The kid from Grenada is going to be an excellent cover CB. He needs to RS. He is going to get wrecked when he has to tackle an SEC RB that weighs 200 pounds. He weighed 160 in the Fall- he may be 170 now- but he aint ready for SEC tackling. He's a 7 on 7 Specialist right now. We were good at CB last year with Dantzler and Smitherman- we dropped off considerably after Smitherman got hurt.

Murphy can play. He will be pretty good.

Thompson can play the run damn well- struggles in pass coverage. He is not in the NFL because he was projected a late round pick last April. Gay played 4 games and look where he got picked? Losing experience in Washington and Leo hurts this group also

Our DL has no pass rushers and we dont have "that guy" who can be that Nose who makes offenses worried about. We do have a chance to be decent against the run.

We lost 8 of our top 12 tacklers from 2019. In almost every world a defense takes a step back the next year when that happens unless they have an ultra-talented group of young guys. We dont have that.

Add lack of depth to that and the possibility of 50 passes per game on offense vs 35 to extend games.

We will struggle alot on D in 2020- especially when we get a few injuries- which always happens

Only hope I see of the D being decent is

1) the scheme is unique and I could see some stubborn OC refusing to adapt/being too incompetent to prepare his QB to make pre snap reads.

2) If the scheme/the new guys can generate a much better pass rush than I expect. That's the only way to help the DBs.

I agree though that it's not looking good overall. We will probably see some '16 level blown coverages due to QBs having 4+ seconds to throw and non-SEC DBs being fielded due to injury/rest needs.

Some fans will blame Arnett saying he sucks and Shoop was way better, and others will argue that it's just personnel. I'll just be smiling that we're discussing football instead of COVID

[Coach34]

Cant judge Arnett on 2020. 2021 will be a much better judge. We have to recruit better on D- it has dropped the last couple of years

[confucius say]

The kid from Grenada is going to be an excellent cover CB. He needs to RS. He is going to get wrecked when he has to tackle an SEC RB that weighs 200 pounds. He weighed 160 in the Fall- he may be 170 now- but he aint ready for SEC tackling. He's a 7 on 7 Specialist right now. We were good at CB last year with Dantzler and Smitherman- we dropped off considerably after Smitherman got hurt.

Murphy can play. He will be pretty good.

Thompson can play the run damn well- struggles in pass coverage. He is not in the NFL because he was projected a late round pick last April. Gay played 4 games and look where he got picked? Losing experience in Washington and Leo hurts this group also

Our DL has no pass rushers and we dont have "that guy" who can be that Nose who makes offenses worried about. We do have a chance to be decent against the run.

We lost 8 of our top 12 tacklers from 2019. In almost every world a defense takes a step back the next year when that happens unless they have an ultra-talented group of young guys. We dont have that.

Add lack of depth to that and the possibility of 50 passes per game on offense vs 35 to extend games.

We will struggle alot on D in 2020- especially when we get a few injuries- which always happens

I agree mostly. Def agree with last paragraph.
Still not sure we will be markedly worse than 2019.

[Captain Falcon]

Cant judge Arnett on 2020. 2021 will be a much better judge. We have to recruit better on D- it has dropped the last couple of years

I agree with your first two sentences 100%, and I do think we need to recruit better defensively but it is worth mentioning that our defense would not have been what it was in 2017 and 2018 without the signing of a generational DL talent in Simmons and unbelievably good JUCO class in 2017. I am not sure those are things you can count on consistently.

[BrunswickDawg]

I agree with your first two sentences 100%, and I do think we need to recruit better defensively but it is worth mentioning that our defense would not have been what it was in 2017 and 2018 without the signing of a generational DL talent in Simmons and unbelievably good JUCO class in 2017. I am not sure those are things you can count on consistently.

You can't, but we should be able to count on having NFL quality DL based on our history the past decade plus - Love, Cox, Smith, McPhee, Denico Autry,and Hoyett, show that. And that's not counting talent like Jones, Simmons & Sweat.
I think we've had a few years of weaker in-state talent and our recruiting has been inconsistent with the staff turnover. I think we have some talent in Pickering and King Ani, but they are young and not at the point where they can take over a game like Jones or Simmons could at the same point in their careers. The difference in last year and this year versus the past 10 season prior is we had at least 1 guy who was at a high level, even if the rest were young or lesser talents. Maybe Pickering can step up, maybe Arnett can mask some of it. It was a weakness last year, and will probably be one again this season.

[preachermatt83]

2022 is going to be a year for us to see something very very special.

[TrapGame]

2022 is going to be a year for us to see something very very special.

I believe that. Leach is going to take us places.

(BTW, where have you been?)