NCAA passes lower seam baseball. Thoughts?

[Bo Darville]

should help hitters. Todd, Will James, what do y'all think?

[Will James]

I like it. Well hit balls should not die like they have been. That's not baseball. But neither is slip an slide.

[Bo Darville]

Will, I know the NCAA had been thinking about it. Do you think Omaha was the straw that broke the camel's back?

[bully99]

Eric Sorenson a college baseball writer said yesterday he wondered if the colleges that "freaked out " and moved their fences in are now gonna move them back out. He didn't mention any schools, but I wonder if he might have been talking about the same school that freaked out and put fake grass and fake dirt on one of the nicest surfaces in college baseball.

[Will James]

Will, I know the NCAA had been thinking about it. Do you think Omaha was the straw that broke the camel's back?

Doubt it. That huge ass park should be cut down anyways but with offense way down EVERYWHERE I think it was time. I posted somewhere here earlier the percentages lower for home runs and other things in college ball compared to the pros. I'd like to see the rates somewhere similar to AA ball.

[Will James]

Eric Sorenson a college baseball writer said yesterday he wondered if the colleges that "freaked out " and moved their fences in are now gonna move them back out. He didn't mention any schools, but I wonder if he might have been talking about the same school that freaked out and put fake grass and fake dirt on one of the nicest surfaces in college baseball.

Our power alleys need to be moved in regardless. Our OF move isn't extreme by any standards and is still very large.

[CadaverDawg]

Does this seam change hurt us more or benefit us more? Or neither?

I thought the big park at Ameritrade helped our style last year.

[engie]

Cohen will be pissed about it -- that much I basically guarantee.

When does it go into effect?

[engie]

Does this seem change hurt us more or benefit us more? Or neither?

I thought the big park at Ameritrade helped our style last year.

It hurts us to an extent for sure... But probably will be minimal gain/lost overall.

[AlSwearengen]

Personally, I would rather have a harder baseball rather than one with flatter seems. Hope it doesn't affect our sidearmers or Mitchell too much. Although, I'm not sure how much seams play into a sidewinders sink.

[Will James]

MLB Home Runs - 1 HR every 39 Plate Appearances
SEC Home Runs - 1 HR every 78 Plate Appearances

MLB Extra Base Hits - 1 XBH every 13 Plate Appearances
SEC Extra Base Hits - 1 XBH every 18 Plate Appearances

More Extra Base Hits in the MLB by 38%
More Home Runs in the MLB by 100%!


Tweak for a few years to match the numbers up with high A -- a league in which the SEC has very similar overall talent structure -- and let's roll.

High A last year - HR every 36 AB in the Cali League, every 53 AB in the Carolina League, and 40 AB in the Texas league.

There was a home run hit every 67 AB in the SEC.

It's easier for these guys to hit bombs in the Cape Cod league with wood bats than in Dudy Noble with aluminum. Houston, we have a problem.

[Will James]

I think it absolutely HELPS us because of our high K rates we should see. Just keep crootin' the power arms, FIP all day.

[Todd4State]

I like it and agree with Will on this issue. I have a CWS baseball from this year and the seams are WAY up. Especially when you compare it to a MLB or MiLB baseball. Player safety is of course a premium- and so the bats have been deadened. But they did so at the expense of offense. Hitters should have a fair chance to hit a baseball out on a bad pitch just like a pitcher should have a fair chance to get a hitter out on a good pitch. They need to have a happy medium.

Was this aimed at us specifically? No.

In fact, I think this will actually help us if you look at what Cohen has been recruiting the past couple of years. We have a LOT more power hitters than before. And that is already becoming evident in fall ball. Garner, Vallot, Ingram, Burdick, Collins, Humphries, Rooker, Cole Gordon, and Swinarski are all guys with very good power potential. I think Cohen kind of expected this to happen and has recruited accordingly. We'll still be a very aggressive team- maybe even more aggressive in some ways, but we'll have more power than in the past.

Also, the new Adidas bats that MSU uses are probably going to give us an advantage as well. They're a little bit more live than the Easton bats. In fact, I expect that to be a storyline especially if we hit a significant amount of home runs as a team like Samford did a couple of years ago.

It's nice to have a coaching staff that is proactive and spends their time figuring out how to take advantage of the situation instead of writing a 60 page manifesto on the evils of the NCAA.

[engie]

From someone that would know(on effects on pitchers):

"You pick up mph on velo and can actually spin a better slider. Curves are negatively affected mostly because amateur talent needs the higher seams for grips, which is why the elite TeamUSA guys didn't notice any real change."

I think we'll be fine.

[Bo Darville]

Was this aimed at us specifically? No.



Agreed. This was not aimed at any one team or conference. This was to get the long ball back to a proper ratio. It will help offenses and hurt pitchers. But it makes having strikeout pitchers, power arms, and guys who have great ball placement much more important. Guys who groove one over the middle of the plate at 83 mph, or hang a curve, are going to have less room for error.

[Todd4State]

Does this seam change hurt us more or benefit us more? Or neither?

I thought the big park at Ameritrade helped our style last year.

Ameritrade probably helped UCLA out more than us. Big outfield for balls to fall into and a lot of room to cover- all the while they had a dominant pitching staff and a really good defense. In the meantime, we had Hunter and Rea going for the downs.

I do think that playing in a big park helps us out in general- Trustmark Park, Hoover, and TD Ameritrade are all big parks. I think that's part of the reason why Vandy hasn't done as well in the postseason in general as well. They use their turf to their advantage a LOT. Take them off the turf and it hurts their running game a good bit. They got knocked out by a Louisville team that is used to playing on that stuff- and I think that negated their advantage. If they had made it to Omaha- I honestly don't think they would have lasted very long.

But having a big park in Starkville helps us out- and I think that shows when it really counts in the postseason.

Also- let's not forget the Florida State regional when we got knocked out in 2012 that was a smaller park and if I'm not mistaken the long ball hurt us out there some.

[Todd4State]

MLB Home Runs - 1 HR every 39 Plate Appearances
SEC Home Runs - 1 HR every 78 Plate Appearances

MLB Extra Base Hits - 1 XBH every 13 Plate Appearances
SEC Extra Base Hits - 1 XBH every 18 Plate Appearances

More Extra Base Hits in the MLB by 38%
More Home Runs in the MLB by 100%!

And let's not forget that home runs are declining in MLB- so it's not like its the live ball or steroid era.

[Will James]

if I'm not mistaken the long ball hurt us out there some.

The short ball hurt us there. Worst managed game ever that put us out. So many buntfails.

[Bo Darville]

I will say this. High seams or low seams, big yard or small yard, easton bats or adidas bats, real grass or fake grass. I am absolutely giddy about this team. The talent level that Cohen is bringing in says that MSU baseball is back and back in a big way. Regionals, Super Regionals, and CWS are going to be common. I can't wait. I honestly believe we will win a national championship within the next 5 years.

[bully99]

The NCAA chair said the poor offense at the cws was a big factor in changing the ball. It's not going to be used until 2015 postseason. Not going to be used next year because of current inventory. They also said lower seams will make it harder to throw curves. Said 87% of coaches surveyed support lower seams. Fake grass and dirt still suck.

[Todd4State]

Agreed. This was not aimed at any one team or conference. This was to get the long ball back to a proper ratio. It will help offenses and hurt pitchers. But it makes having strikeout pitchers, power arms, and guys who have great ball placement much more important. Guys who groove one over the middle of the plate at 83 mph, or hang a curve, are going to have less room for error.

Absolutely. And thankfully we have a lot of power arm type pitchers. I think the submarine/sidearm guys are going to be OK. Most of them typically keep the ball down and they rely on deception as much as anything.

If you have velocity, it will always give you a little more room for error in pretty much any baseball environment.

It's going to hurt teams like Central Arkansas when they play someone like MSU or LSU though. Mid-majors are going to have pitchers that are going to have less room for error. With the old ball, they could get by with 3-4 junkballers and a sidearm/submarine guy and not get shelled. And if they don't get a lead, it's going to shut down a lot of their small ball tactics.

[engie]

Also, the new Adidas bats that MSU uses are probably going to give us an advantage as well. They're a little bit more live than the Easton bats. In fact, I expect that to be a storyline especially if we hit a significant amount of home runs as a team like Samford did a couple of years ago.

Todd, I think you are onto something here. I've heard from 3 different sources close to the college game that the Adidas bats were noticeably "hotter".

[Todd4State]

The short ball hurt us there. Worst managed game ever that put us out. So many buntfails.

We did have some execution probems, and Frost had a very costly error- but what I was refering to was Samford hitting four home runs off of Stratton. The home runs we allowed weren't the only reason we lost- but it did have an effect on us.

[Todd4State]

Todd, I think you are onto something here. I've heard from 3 different sources close to the college game that the Adidas bats were noticeably "hotter".

I've heard that a lot too. Unfortunately, after Rea hits 25 home runs this year they'll probably ban Adidas bats.

And of all the things that Adidas makes- the last thing I ever thought they would make well are bats.

[CadaverDawg]

I've heard that a lot too. Unfortunately, after Rea hits 25 home runs this year they'll probably ban Adidas bats.

And of all the things that Adidas makes- the last thing I ever thought they would make well are bats.

If they ban their bats, hopefully they'll ban their football uniforms with them*

[messageboardsuperhero]

I will say this. High seams or low seams, big yard or small yard, easton bats or adidas bats, real grass or fake grass. I am absolutely giddy about this team. The talent level that Cohen is bringing in says that MSU baseball is back and back in a big way. Regionals, Super Regionals, and CWS are going to be common. I can't wait. I honestly believe we will win a national championship within the next 5 years.

This^^

[Todd4State]

From someone that would know(on effects on pitchers):

"You pick up mph on velo and can actually spin a better slider. Curves are negatively affected mostly because amateur talent needs the higher seams for grips, which is why the elite TeamUSA guys didn't notice any real change."

I think we'll be fine.

This makes sense to me. The seams that are raised should cause some resistance- which would slow fastballs down. I can see where you would get a batter grip on a curveball because there's a big raised portion for the pitcher's finger to push off on and "snap" the ball. The slider surprises me a little- but maybe it's because you are supposed to throw it like a fastball and then snap it off at the end.

Good pitchers are going to be good pitchers regardless.

[engie]

I've heard that a lot too. Unfortunately, after Rea hits 25 home runs this year they'll probably ban Adidas bats.

And of all the things that Adidas makes- the last thing I ever thought they would make well are bats.

True.

I'm not huge on Adidas -- but I'm loving the idea of being their unquestioned flagship baseball school, which I think we probably are.

Other notable programs(yet to be seen how many switch to the bats): NC State, Nebraska, Louisville, aTm

[Todd4State]

If they ban their bats, hopefully they'll ban their football uniforms with them*

I can't wait to see the special Governor's Cup bats. Maybe they'll call them Barbour Boppers. Or they could make a special Kirk Fordice edition with "I'll kick your ass" on the barrel.

[Todd4State]

True.

I'm not huge on Adidas -- but I'm loving the idea of being their unquestioned flagship baseball school, which I think we probably are.Other notable programs(yet to be seen how many switch to the bats): NC State, Nebraska, Louisville, aTm


This gets so overlooked. But it's huge for our program. I hope Adidas baseball stuff gets to the point where you go into a Dick's in South Dakoata and when you go to the baseball equipment aisle, you see "MSU Baseball".

And if these bats take off like I think they are going to- I expect a LOT of teams to start using them. Especially at the high school level. And when they go to get these bats- hopefully they will see a big picture of a MSU baseball player using one.

[Schultzy]

Todd, I think you are onto something here. I've heard from 3 different sources close to the college game that the Adidas bats were noticeably "hotter".

We've been playing with less than the hottest spec'd bat out there!? I would've ordered them some and left 'em beside the cage had I known that; especially in the dead bat/ball era. Was this a contractual thing?

[engie]

We've been playing with less than the hottest spec'd bat out there!? I would've ordered them some and left 'em beside the cage had I known that; especially in the dead bat/ball era. Was this a contractual thing?

Yes. We broke a 25 year sponsorship/relationship with Easton this year in favor of these Adidas bats. Easton also paid for the infield inside the Palmeiro Center. Apparently Adidas REALLY sweetened the pot for us on this...

My buddy that's associated with an Easton school says the Adidas bats are on a VERY fine line of the BBCOR standard. He says that Easton/Louisville Slugger have to be way more conservative because there are producing millions of bats -- and if one failed certification, it would basically kill the company -- whereas these Adidas bats aren't for retail sale yet and a certification failure wouldn't be a very big deal in the scheme of things.

He thinks they are purposefully "hot" in order to attract a ton of attention in the college game and get a ton of interest among the younger classifications -- before probably toning them down a little ahead of an actual product launch at some point in the future.

No idea how true, but it makes sense...

[HereComesTheSpiral]

Yes. We broke a 25 year sponsorship/relationship with Easton this year in favor of these Adidas bats. Easton also paid for the infield inside the Palmeiro Center. Apparently Adidas REALLY sweetened the pot for us on this...

My buddy that's associated with an Easton school says the Adidas bats are on a VERY fine line of the BBCOR standard. He says that Easton/Louisville Slugger have to be way more conservative because there are producing millions of bats -- and if one failed certification, it would basically kill the company -- whereas these Adidas bats aren't for retail sale yet and a certification failure wouldn't be a very big deal in the scheme of things.

He thinks they are purposefully "hot" in order to attract a ton of attention in the college game and get a ton of interest among the younger classifications -- before probably toning them down a little ahead of an actual product launch at some point in the future.

No idea how true, but it makes sense...

How are they close to being out of the standard? Is it material selection, mass of the bats? I'm not up to date on the BBCOR standard so I don't know if they have certain materials that can be used or if there is a tolerance on the allowable mass.

[engie]

How are they close to being out of the standard? Is it material selection, mass of the bats? I'm not up to date on the BBCOR standard so I don't know if they have certain materials that can be used or if there is a tolerance on the allowable mass.

BBCOR is Bat-Ball Coefficient of Restitution. Basically, it measures the "trampoline effect" of the bat and anything beyond a certain effect fails the standard... May be more fine print to it, but that is the gist of it...

[Todd4State]

How are they close to being out of the standard? Is it material selection, mass of the bats? I'm not up to date on the BBCOR standard so I don't know if they have certain materials that can be used or if there is a tolerance on the allowable mass.

I don't know- but it sounds like we are darn close which is fine with me!

[MsStateBaseball]

Fastball and three finger change up won't change. Most pitches are these. However curveball and slider need a seam. If you have big hands this has little effect.

[DawgInMemphis]

Fastball and three finger change up won't change. Most pitches are these. However curveball and slider need a seam. If you have big hands this has little effect.

I disagree. This will have an effect on every pitch. The aerodynamic properties of the ball are changing. The drag coefficient of the ball will be different. It will effect some pitches more than others, as the way the ball is spun and how fast it spins is different for different pitches - but make no mistake, this will effect every pitch. I agree that those with larger hands won't see much of a change due to having a secure grip with either seam design, but the flight of the ball will be different. How much different will vary from pitcher to pitcher, but there will be a change.