Pac12 players threatening to boycott

[Maroonthirteen]

THey want revenue sharing. ...and other things.

https://247sports.com/Article/Pac-12-players-threatening-to-boycott-season-California-Oregon-USC-UCLA-Arizona-State-149309979/


"Things they r asking 4 is 50/50 rev share, 6 yrs insurance upon graduation, better Covid-19 testing & protocols etc etc...The player led group is being spearheaded at Cal Football & they have been holding phone calls with other Pac12 teams..There is some kinda of players only meeting/vote that will be taking place shortly."

[ShotgunDawg]

What'll be interesting is how the left balances this stance with Title 9, since Title 9 is somewhat of a leftest policy.

Seems like an either/or. Either schools give revenue sharing to revenue producing sport's players & cut non revenue sports or schools continue to fund Title 9, which leaves very little money left over at 90% of schools.

I'm sure the coaching salaries at the Power 5 level will be cited, but in the grand scheme of things, those are only a small percentage of the total schools these policies would effect.

[Cooterpoot]

I'll sure miss watching midnight football*

[Dawgology]

Good for them. I hope this catches on all over so that we can finally create a minor league and let these guys go there and get college sports back to the amateur status they are supposed to be.

[BB30]

So will joe blow walk on get his cut as well? Or would it only be for scholarship players? If so, I believe you'll see a pile of new walk ons in the coming years*

[Maroonthirteen]

Good for them. I hope this catches on all over so that we can finally create a minor league and let these guys go there and get college sports back to the amateur status they are supposed to be.

I agree. Form a nfl minor league and be done with it. I'll be just fine watching a bunch of 4.8-5.2/40 guys.

[Dawgology]

I agree. Form a nfl minor league and be done with it. I'll be just fine watching a bunch of 4.8-5.2/40 guys.

Plus they can stagger the NFL minor league to run May - August to get us through the sports dry spell. You could do an age limit also: 18-25 year old age group or something.

[ShotgunDawg]

It's a pretty simple solution.

The NFL has absolutely zero interest in starting a minor league system and other football leagues have all failed.

If players strike for pay, then let them boycott and just find willing D2 or JUCO players that want to play in the SEC while the D1 players sit and don't do anything while losing their scholarships.

The players have ZERO leverage to this. They just don't. Until another viable league that can compete with the NCAA comes into existence and actually makes enough money to pay players, then the players don't have any leverage.

Just let them strike. They'll only be hurting their own career. Not college football.

[FISHDAWG]

I guess I'm just old school .... they are already getting paid with a scholarship ... anyone priced an education from Stanford lately

[Political Hack]

It's a pretty simple solution.

The NFL has absolutely zero interest in starting a minor league system and other football leagues have all failed.

If players strike for pay, then let them boycott and just find willing D2 or JUCO players that want to play in the SEC while the D1 players sit and don't do anything while losing their scholarships.

The players have ZERO leverage to this. They just don't. Until another viable league that can compete with the NCAA comes into existence and actually makes enough money to pay players, then the players don't have any leverage.

Just let them strike. They'll only be hurting their own career. Not college football.

I think that's the same argument slave owners used.

[BB30]

I think that's the same argument slave owners used.

Comparing this to the slave trade is a bit drastic don't you think? It isn't like slaves had the option of just walking off the job. Slaves didn't have any choices in the decisions that were made for them.

These kids do have choices- go to college for free and get a stipend on top that covers your every day expenses. Or don't go and take your own route to the NFL.

I mean they are getting a full college education that will set them up for a good job once they graduate along with enough in stipends to get food/go on dates etc. 99% of these guys will never sniff an NFL field and would be needing a regular job down the road anyway. So college is putting those players in a much better position than they would otherwise be in.

I'm not completely opposed to paying them but it will complicate a lot of things.

How do you handle title 9? Most womens sports are funded through the revenue sports.
How much does each player get? Does the 4th string walk on make what the star QB makes?
Is it open season in recruiting? Where basically the player can take the best contract offer at time of recruitment? If you transfer what happens to those contracts that have already been signed or would this do away with transferring?

Those are just for starters. There is a pile of other things that would have to be considered.

[Political Hack]

Very drastic. More like indentured servitude. The ARGUMENT that they have zero leverage is what I compared to slavery policy. They can't represent themselves because they have no power. Sound oppressively familiar?

It is nice though that they get training to go help them earn money at some point in the future while they're earning everyone else money. Hopefully they don't suffer bodily harm during their servitude.

[Cowbell]

It's a pretty simple solution.

The NFL has absolutely zero interest in starting a minor league system and other football leagues have all failed.

If players strike for pay, then let them boycott and just find willing D2 or JUCO players that want to play in the SEC while the D1 players sit and don't do anything while losing their scholarships.

The players have ZERO leverage to this. They just don't. Until another viable league that can compete with the NCAA comes into existence and actually makes enough money to pay players, then the players don't have any leverage.

Just let them strike. They'll only be hurting their own career. Not college football.

You are dead on here, Gun! Plus the timing is terrible for them to try this. Good Luck! Enjoy that free education!

[Cowbell]

Very drastic. More like indentured servitude. The ARGUMENT that they have zero leverage is what I compared to slavery policy. They can't represent themselves because they have no power. Sound oppressively familiar?

It is nice though that they get training to go help them earn money at some point in the future while they're earning everyone else money. Hopefully they don't suffer bodily harm during their servitude.

I wouldn't exactly call a players life one of servitude. Especially at the P5 level. Whats next. HS football players gonna ask for a cut of the gate money?

[Dawgology]

Very drastic. More like indentured servitude. The ARGUMENT that they have zero leverage is what I compared to slavery policy. They can't represent themselves because they have no power. Sound oppressively familiar?

It is nice though that they get training to go help them earn money at some point in the future while they're earning everyone else money. Hopefully they don't suffer bodily harm during their servitude.

I think what should be offered is not pay but a healthy insurance policy that covers any life long physical injury sustained playing football for the institution that should extend for the life of the individual. In other words, if they are hurt and disabled for life, they are covered for life. More or less a life insurance policy. Also, a "Get Started" stipend IF they graduate, to the tune of a $30k lump payment upon graduation. If they leave early for the NFL or transfer then that stipend is automatically waived. This would be on top of their scholarships, meal plans, etc.

[DownwardDawg]

I guess I'm just old school .... they are already getting paid with a scholarship ... anyone priced an education from Stanford lately

Me and you both brother.

[DownwardDawg]

Very drastic. More like indentured servitude. The ARGUMENT that they have zero leverage is what I compared to slavery policy. They can't represent themselves because they have no power. Sound oppressively familiar?

It is nice though that they get training to go help them earn money at some point in the future while they're earning everyone else money. Hopefully they don't suffer bodily harm during their servitude.

If they could only get a top notch education while playing. And get it for free. Oh wait......

They are pampered and catered to. Provided with everything they need to succeed in life, and people want them to get more.

[TUSK]

I think that's the same argument slave owners used.

Wow.

[Political Hack]

I think what should be offered is not pay but a healthy insurance policy that covers any life long physical injury sustained playing football for the institution that should extend for the life of the individual. In other words, if they are hurt and disabled for life, they are covered for life. More or less a life insurance policy. Also, a "Get Started" stipend IF they graduate, to the tune of a $30k lump payment upon graduation. If they leave early for the NFL or transfer then that stipend is automatically waived. This would be on top of their scholarships, meal plans, etc.

That's a fair incentive based approach that is truly designed to protect and promote the best interest of the kids playing. I do think it should be a % if the school or conference earnings though and not a flat fee. May not be a huge percentage. The 50% demanded by Pac12 players seems like an uneducated guesstimate. There's no telling what percentages of the profit are being sent towards. University enhancement. Academics. Faculty. Additional administrative staff. Etc...

[Political Hack]

Wow.

"Slaves had zero leverage, so why listen to them?" That's the exact same argument presented in the post.

[starkvegasdawg]

Very drastic. More like indentured servitude. The ARGUMENT that they have zero leverage is what I compared to slavery policy. They can't represent themselves because they have no power. Sound oppressively familiar?

It is nice though that they get training to go help them earn money at some point in the future while they're earning everyone else money. Hopefully they don't suffer bodily harm during their servitude.

Shit, in college I wish I was as oppressed as a star D1 football player.

[Cooterpoot]

Very drastic. More like indentured servitude. The ARGUMENT that they have zero leverage is what I compared to slavery policy. They can't represent themselves because they have no power. Sound oppressively familiar?

It is nice though that they get training to go help them earn money at some point in the future while they're earning everyone else money. Hopefully they don't suffer bodily harm during their servitude.

Lots of NFL players would've never played more than a few downs had it not been for a strike. This is far more similar to a union strike than slavery. That's a laughable comparison.

[Commercecomet24]

Shit, in college I wish I was as oppressed as a star D1 football player.

Yeah it's gotta be tough being a rock star on a college campus like they are, especially in the sec.

[TUSK]

Shit, in college I wish I was as oppressed as a star D1 football player.

"Swing low, sweet brand new Dodge Charger,
Coming for to carry me home......."

[Todd4State]

I think that's the same argument slave owners used.

Real slavery is being on government assistance totally.

Getting a free education at the school of your choice within reason and having a chance to better yourself and make millions? I wish I was a slave if that's your definition of slavery.

[Commercecomet24]

"Swing low, sweet brand new Dodge Charger,
Coming for to carry me home......."

Dang Tusk, that's hilarious!

[Cowbell]

"Swing low, sweet brand new Dodge Charger,
Coming for to carry me home......."
Under Croom, there were so many defensive players with brand new Chargers. Should have spent a little more on the offensive side...

[State82]

"Swing low, sweet brand new Dodge Charger,
Coming for to carry me home......."

Ok Tusk. You owe me one margarita. And that stuff sure is sticky when you spit it on a keyboard. Dang that was funny.

[State82]

I guess I'm just old school .... they are already getting paid with a scholarship ... anyone priced an education from Stanford lately

Yeah. You can put me in that old school camp also. Free of charge: education from an institution of higher learning; food; books; housing; best medical care; treated like kings (which can be parlayed into numerous opportunities after graduation that few others have). Tough life for a college kid.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

As long as they pay income taxes.... I?m for it... it will turn them into conservatives pretty quick.

[confucius say]

"Swing low, sweet brand new Dodge Charger,
Coming for to carry me home......."

Epic.

Oh, and to compare the lack of leverage of college football players with that of slaves is one of the most obtuse statements I've seen on here. Holy hell.

[Jack Lambert]

I'll sure miss watching midnight football*

that's freaking funny. However I have watch the second half of some PAC 12 games when I got back later from Straville.

[Jack Lambert]

"Swing low, sweet brand new Dodge Charger,
Coming for to carry me home......."

You know Dodge Charger is too redneck for them.

[Maroonthirteen]

Me and you both brother.

Me three.

I'm ok with the players making money on their "likeness" but revenue sharing and medical insurance. Cmon. If it's that bad. Just quit playing. However they know it isn't that bad. This is just taking advantage of the current climate in the US to get a bigger slice of the pie.

[Jack Lambert]

Me three.

I'm ok with the players making money on their "likeness" but revenue sharing and medical insurance. Cmon. If it's that bad. Just quit playing. However they know it isn't that bad. This is just taking advantage of the current climate in the US to get a bigger slice of the pie.

If they get hurt on field they are being taken care of. I do think they could expand that some. I was talking to Tyler Russell a few years back and he was on crutches. He injured his knee while playing football at State and it had to fix but he had to pay for it. I think they could take a little more care after they leave the school just in case something comes up.

[Maroonthirteen]

The thing of this is. Is there any remedy even if the NCAA or universities were receptive? Meaning there isn't time between now and the scheduled kickoff to organize all they are asking.

So would the players really sit out? I doubt it.

[Coach34]

I think that's the same argument slave owners used.

I really cant believe you- as an intelligent man I know you to be- said that. The education they receive is worth at least 100K- plus their monthly stipend they receive- not to mention the other perks of being fed constantly, tutors, adoration, sex, and many other things.

P5 college athletes get to live a life few of us get to experience.

[maroonmania]

I agree. Form a nfl minor league and be done with it. I'll be just fine watching a bunch of 4.8-5.2/40 guys.

This is what we need so we can actually have student athletes again playing college football and college basketball. This free minor league that the NFL and NBA gets through the colleges is starting to cause a major issue as more and more want players to get a piece of the pie of the money generated in college football and basketball. Of course if they do that you can pretty much shut all other college sports down. No matter what you give these players they will never be satisfied because they don't think of themselves as amateurs even though they are. Its really not the colleges that are using their money, its the NFL and NBA by avoiding a minor league payroll. The colleges are compensating players 10's of thousands of dollars per year through tuition, room and board plus a stipend but a lot of the players aren't that interested in the education they are getting for free anyway.

[Coach34]

You wont see Southern athletes sit out. Ya know why? Those six figure jobs or monthly payments their families receive because their child is an SEC athlete would stop.

5-star player- "Coach Saban, I've come here to tell you we are going to strike until we get these demands"

Coach Saban- "Go ahead strike. Your Dad will be suspended from his job without pay until you return"

5-star player- " Nevermind Coach. We good"

[Thick]

I think what should be offered is not pay but a healthy insurance policy that covers any life long physical injury sustained playing football for the institution that should extend for the life of the individual. In other words, if they are hurt and disabled for life, they are covered for life. More or less a life insurance policy. Also, a "Get Started" stipend IF they graduate, to the tune of a $30k lump payment upon graduation. If they leave early for the NFL or transfer then that stipend is automatically waived. This would be on top of their scholarships, meal plans, etc.

Wtf.....a ?Get Started? stipend of $30k?? So, they get a free college education and then you give them $30k. Has everyone lost their freaking minds? I was 4 year scholarship player at MSU (3 year letterman), and I got a damn job utilizing my free college education. 26 years of medical sales, and I have lived a comfortable life with 3 daughters to boot. Those players are freaking coddled as shit, and if you think otherwise, then you really don?t know anything about college athletics.

How much happens behind the scenes that don?t make it to the front pages or social media? You would be amazed, but if you start putting more money in their pockets you will see some outlandish shit happen. Remember where a lot of our kids come from. I guess liberals just don?t get until it?s too late.

[starkvegasdawg]

"Swing low, sweet brand new Dodge Charger,
Coming for to carry me home......."

Post of the year candidate right here.

[Thick]

You wont see Southern athletes sit out. Ya know why? Those six figure jobs or monthly payments their families receive because their child is an SEC athlete would stop.

5-star player- "Coach Saban, I've come here to tell you we are going to strike until we get these demands"

Coach Saban- "Go ahead strike. Your Dad will be suspended from his job without pay until you return"

5-star player- " Nevermind Coach. We good"

And this too! Spot on

[Commercecomet24]

Wtf.....a ?Get Started? stipend of $30k?? So, they get a free college education and then you give them $30k. Has everyone lost their freaking minds? I was 4 year scholarship player at MSU (3 year letterman), and I got a damn job utilizing my free college education. 26 years of medical sales, and I have lived a comfortable life with 3 daughters to boot. Those players are freaking coddled as shit, and if you think otherwise, then you really don?t know anything about college athletics.

How much happens behind the scenes that don?t make it to the front pages or social media? You would be amazed, but if you start putting more money in their pockets you will see some outlandish shit happen. Remember where a lot of our kids come from. I guess liberals just don?t get until it?s too late.

Hear, hear!

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

I'll sure miss watching midnight football*

The reason I watched midnight Pac-12 football is now the coach at MSU.

[RocketDawg]

I guess I'm just old school .... they are already getting paid with a scholarship ... anyone priced an education from Stanford lately

Correct. They're not only getting free tuition, but they're getting free books, housing, and food, as well as in many cases, pretty outstanding workout facilities, complete with entertaining games. All that adds up in a hurry. Regular students get none of that, and even high-level academic scholarships don't include room and board, for the most part.

Athletic departments are taking a huge financial hit right now. If they want to get paid in the good times, do they also agree to pay the school in bad times?

[Cowbell]

This is the most common sense I have seen on this board in quite some time. We may play football after all....

[ShotgunDawg]

I think that's the same argument slave owners used.

Yikes. That?s ignoring a ton of evidence that shows that college football has possibly natured more future black millionaires than any institution in the world

[SPMT]

And this too! Spot on

Hear, hear on all your comments!

[ShotgunDawg]

I think what should be offered is not pay but a healthy insurance policy that covers any life long physical injury sustained playing football for the institution that should extend for the life of the individual. In other words, if they are hurt and disabled for life, they are covered for life. More or less a life insurance policy. Also, a "Get Started" stipend IF they graduate, to the tune of a $30k lump payment upon graduation. If they leave early for the NFL or transfer then that stipend is automatically waived. This would be on top of their scholarships, meal plans, etc.

These are fantastic ideas

[SmokeyDawg]

Would they not be subjecting themselves to fines as well? Isn't that how pro and semipro athletic's disciplinary works? Seems like that would be a mess.

[Political Hack]

Real slavery is being on government assistance totally.

Getting a free education at the school of your choice within reason and having a chance to better yourself and make millions? I wish I was a slave if that's your definition of slavery.

I didn't compare it to slavery. People need to read more clearly. I said the argument that "the players don't have any leverage so don't listen to them" is an oppressive perspective that was used in the past to protect the institution of slavery. That can't be denied. It's just a factual comment. I did not compare college football to the system of slavery, but I did compare it to wndentured servitude.

And yes, just because guys are rock stars and have it better than the normal student doesn't mean they shouldn't have a piece of the pie that they're risking their necks for. Coaches are making millions. Ath Dir's. Sponsors. ESPN. The conferences. The bowls. The cities. The universities. Everybody. Except the guys performing are ALLOWED to earn a piece of the pie. It's as UnAmerican of a concept as there's ever been. Give the guys a slice of the pie.

[Political Hack]

You know Dodge Charger is too redneck for them.

More of a mustang guy myself.

[Commercecomet24]

More of a mustang guy myself.

Corvettes for me ha!

[Political Hack]

Yikes. That?s ignoring a ton of evidence that shows that college football has possibly natured more future black millionaires than any institution in the world

You are correct that it has been great. Not only from a professional athletics standpoint, but the breaking down of institutional barriers and opening up avenues to higher education. There's no arguing that. It's just strange to me that everyone can justify paying a coach $10 million a year and telling the players they get to go to class for free and be popular.

[DownwardDawg]

I really cant believe you- as an intelligent man I know you to be- said that. The education they receive is worth at least 100K- plus their monthly stipend they receive- not to mention the other perks of being fed constantly, tutors, adoration, sex, and many other things.

P5 college athletes get to live a life few of us get to experience.

They are truly privileged.

[DownwardDawg]

I didn't compare it to slavery. People need to read more clearly. I said the argument that "the players don't have any leverage so don't listen to them" is an oppressive perspective that was used in the past to protect the institution of slavery. That can't be denied. It's just a factual comment. I did not compare college football to the system of slavery, but I did compare it to wndentured servitude.

And yes, just because guys are rock stars and have it better than the normal student doesn't mean they shouldn't have a piece of the pie that they're risking their necks for. Coaches are making millions. Ath Dir's. Sponsors. ESPN. The conferences. The bowls. The cities. The universities. Everybody. Except the guys performing are ALLOWED to earn a piece of the pie. It's as UnAmerican of a concept as there's ever been. Give the guys a slice of the pie.

$100,000 in education and getting to be treated like rockstar for 4 years, that’s getting a giant slice of the pie. College football players are the most “privileged “ people in America.

[Political Hack]

I really cant believe you- as an intelligent man I know you to be- said that. The education they receive is worth at least 100K- plus their monthly stipend they receive- not to mention the other perks of being fed constantly, tutors, adoration, sex, and many other things.

P5 college athletes get to live a life few of us get to experience.

Again, wasn't comparing it to slaves. I was pointing out that the argument being used to justify not paying athletes is unjust and oppressive. See my response to Todd.

Also, Thick is right that you can't hand an 18 year old rock star $100,000 a year either. Put it in a fund and if they graduate, they get it. Incentive it and let them earn it as a STUDENT-athlete. It's not complicated. And it only matters for P5's. The rest of it is truly amateur football. But the P5 is commercialized out the ying yang and the players are not getting anywhere near the financial benefit they should, purely from an economic standpoint. I'm surprised you wouldn't promote that for your guys. I know you truly love all the kids that play for you. To me, I'd want them to have an opportunity to earn some of the money they bring in.

[PKADogs55]

Oh GOD ... whatever do we do? Please dont take away the Pac 12 ... tell them to become the Big 16. Take away that conference ... Zero Fuks given. Stuff now days is just getting RIDICULOUS. Give me NFL, give me the 62 games of MLB, and give me all the SEC conference games .. the rest can go do what they wish. God forbid the West coast teams/players boycott.

[FISHDAWG]

I really cant believe you- as an intelligent man I know you to be- said that. The education they receive is worth at least 100K- plus their monthly stipend they receive- not to mention the other perks of being fed constantly, tutors, adoration, sex, and many other things.

P5 college athletes get to live a life few of us get to experience.

I can't believe he as a MODERATOR said this shit ... I'm so 17'n tired of post getting destroyed like this ... I tried to block him but the site won't let me just because he's a mod ...cant we have some threads once in a while that go uncorrupted ????

[Dawgology]

Wtf.....a ?Get Started? stipend of $30k?? So, they get a free college education and then you give them $30k. Has everyone lost their freaking minds? I was 4 year scholarship player at MSU (3 year letterman), and I got a damn job utilizing my free college education. 26 years of medical sales, and I have lived a comfortable life with 3 daughters to boot. Those players are freaking coddled as shit, and if you think otherwise, then you really don?t know anything about college athletics.

How much happens behind the scenes that don?t make it to the front pages or social media? You would be amazed, but if you start putting more money in their pockets you will see some outlandish shit happen. Remember where a lot of our kids come from. I guess liberals just don?t get until it?s too late.

I'm saying that as opposed to lining a 17/18 year olds pockets with endorsement deals and loads of cash throughout college....which is being heavily discussed by the NCAA. I think it's a terrible idea. A stipend upon graduation would lead more than a few to stick out their college career and get that degree as opposed to dropping out if they don't get playing time. It's great that it worked out for you and I commend you but for every one of our athletes that make it after college there is on average about 4 that don't. Suddenly, they aren't needed anymore. They don't make it as a pro, they go bust, or drop out. The system that was in place their first 20 years is gone and the family that had been supporting and hanging on is gone because they aren't bringing money in anymore.

It was just a thought to help drive up graduation rates and continue to support our athletes after the graduate.

Regardless...we have to take better care of our athletes health after they graduate. It's just the right and moral thing to do.

[FISHDAWG]

Wtf.....a ?Get Started? stipend of $30k?? So, they get a free college education and then you give them $30k. Has everyone lost their freaking minds? I was 4 year scholarship player at MSU (3 year letterman), and I got a damn job utilizing my free college education. 26 years of medical sales, and I have lived a comfortable life with 3 daughters to boot. Those players are freaking coddled as shit, and if you think otherwise, then you really don?t know anything about college athletics.

How much happens behind the scenes that don?t make it to the front pages or social media? You would be amazed, but if you start putting more money in their pockets you will see some outlandish shit happen. Remember where a lot of our kids come from. I guess liberals just don?t get until it?s too late.

wished I could REP this ... very well said Thick

[Extendedcab]

I didn't compare it to slavery. People need to read more clearly. I said the argument that "the players don't have any leverage so don't listen to them" is an oppressive perspective that was used in the past to protect the institution of slavery. That can't be denied. It's just a factual comment. I did not compare college football to the system of slavery, but I did compare it to wndentured servitude.

And yes, just because guys are rock stars and have it better than the normal student doesn't mean they shouldn't have a piece of the pie that they're risking their necks for. Coaches are making millions. Ath Dir's. Sponsors. ESPN. The conferences. The bowls. The cities. The universities. Everybody. Except the guys performing are ALLOWED to earn a piece of the pie. It's as UnAmerican of a concept as there's ever been. Give the guys a slice of the pie.


Thats insane! They are getting paid - FREE EDUCATION plus other perks! Read other posts from people that received those perks in the past.

[Extendedcab]

Wtf.....a ?Get Started? stipend of $30k?? So, they get a free college education and then you give them $30k. Has everyone lost their freaking minds? I was 4 year scholarship player at MSU (3 year letterman), and I got a damn job utilizing my free college education. 26 years of medical sales, and I have lived a comfortable life with 3 daughters to boot. Those players are freaking coddled as shit, and if you think otherwise, then you really don?t know anything about college athletics.

How much happens behind the scenes that don?t make it to the front pages or social media? You would be amazed, but if you start putting more money in their pockets you will see some outlandish shit happen. Remember where a lot of our kids come from. I guess liberals just don?t get until it?s too late.


Rep Given!

[BrunswickDawg]

Again, wasn't comparing it to slaves. I was pointing out that the argument being used to justify not paying athletes is unjust and oppressive. See my response to Todd.

Also, Thick is right that you can't hand an 18 year old rock star $100,000 a year either. Put it in a fund and if they graduate, they get it. Incentive it and let them earn it as a STUDENT-athlete. It's not complicated. And it only matters for P5's. The rest of it is truly amateur football. But the P5 is commercialized out the ying yang and the players are not getting anywhere near the financial benefit they should, purely from an economic standpoint. I'm surprised you wouldn't promote that for your guys. I know you truly love all the kids that play for you. To me, I'd want them to have an opportunity to earn some of the money they bring in.

I think you buried the lede with this. The economic impact of college football is enormous. It's not 1980 with a handful of teams on TV, and boys scouts running the concessions to fund trips to the Jamboree anymore. It's not even 2010 anymore. Just look at the impact a relevant, winning football team has had on our school and Starkville. CFB is a multi-billion dollar industry just like the NFL. Yes, players get an education and benefits. But, is that really in scale with the overall economy of college football?
Is roughly $100,000 over 4 years a fair share of the pie? When the SEC is making $651 million; MSU athletics is making $65 million (after subtracting the SEC share of the $651 m); ESPN & CBS make Billions; Adidas, Learfield, Aaramark, Starkville, etc all make millions; and the local economy of small businesses all exist because of a game you play? ESPN can show you in hype commercials for games, use you to sell their websites and publication, but you can get suspended for a free meal. Is that a fair system of compensation?

Now, I do think the PAC12 players are jumping the gun here. I think the NIL system has the potential to help equalize some of this. I don't have an answer, but I totally understand how the argument can be made that as a total system, CFB players are providing a bigger benefit to the schools then what they are receiving in return.

[basedog]

Paying cash payments to players is wrong, we talking about a sport not a career! Once you start it only gets worse, the so called "stars" will demand more just like the Pro's! If they think it's unfair and don't like it, well quit and find a real job! I'm sure there are many students who would love to have the benefits of having a full ride to graduate with all their benefits now.

[Extendedcab]

Paying cash payments to players is wrong, we talking about a sport not a career! Once you start it only gets worse, the so called "stars" will demand more just like the Pro's! If they think it's unfair and don't like it, well quit and find a real job! I'm sure there are many students who would love to have the benefits of having a full ride to graduate with all their benefits now.

Amen, they are also supposed to be amateurs and not professional athletes. College athletics was/is an extra curricular (an endeavor that is pursued in addition to the normal course of study) activity!

[R2Dawg]

Good for them. I hope this catches on all over so that we can finally create a minor league and let these guys go there and get college sports back to the amateur status they are supposed to be.

Yep, I'm with you. Sick and tired of this junk. How soon can they leave?

[BrunswickDawg]

Paying cash payments to players is wrong, we talking about a sport not a career! Once you start it only gets worse, the so called "stars" will demand more just like the Pro's! If they think it's unfair and don't like it, well quit and find a real job! I'm sure there are many students who would love to have the benefits of having a full ride to graduate with all their benefits now.

Which they do in baseball, basketball, soccer, tennis, golf, hockey, and a number of Olympic sports. All of those have an outlet for those who have the talent to be professionals at an early age - as young as 16 in some instances - to begin making money off of their talents. Football is the lone sport where there is no alternative - you either go to college and hope to climb to the NFL or you are done. Can't turn pro at 16 like tennis. Can't get drafted at 18 like baseball and hockey. But, because college football established itself as marketable industry long before a professional outlet became available, it has been able to collude with the NFL to keep CFB as the only path to the NFL.

College football players miss prime earning years compared to their peers in all major sports - and that is what college football players are beginning realize. They also realize that the NFL rookie contract structure makes it so that they will never come close to earning the monies that their athletic peers can between 18 and 30. Look at Dak - the most under valued player in the NFL. He'll be 27 next week is just finishing that rookie contract worth $3.6 million. He's made a reported $50m off endorsement deals (way more than most NFL players in his draft class), and add his "earnings" at MSU of a $100k education. Thats $53.7 million from 18-27. Not bad, but again unusual compared to most NFL players his age. But, compare it to an equivalent in baseball - say Jason Heyward - not a super star like Mike Trout. Heyward at age 30 has earned $98m - and is contractually owed another $79 million. That's salary alone for Jay Hey, not endorsement deals.

So, if you look through the economics of college football from a player compensation perspective - colleges are getting a deal.

[Commercecomet24]

Paying cash payments to players is wrong, we talking about a sport not a career! Once you start it only gets worse, the so called "stars" will demand more just like the Pro's! If they think it's unfair and don't like it, well quit and find a real job! I'm sure there are many students who would love to have the benefits of having a full ride to graduate with all their benefits now.

Yes, and where does it end? What about the cheerleaders, the band, ball boys, managers, etc, shouldn't they get a piece of it too because they're all involved in the experience as well. Some businesses(huge multi-billion dollar companies) have internships where you make little to nothing/nothing just to get a chance to learn or develop a skill where you can make a big paycheck and career. Do like a baseball, make a minor league for those that don't want to go play college ball and get an education. This would be opening pandoras box. Heck most football players are probably getting paid more and getting perks that are more than they would get from some revenue sharing deal, especially in the SEC.

[basedog]

Which they do in baseball, basketball, soccer, tennis, golf, hockey, and a number of Olympic sports. All of those have an outlet for those who have the talent to be professionals at an early age - as young as 16 in some instances - to begin making money off of their talents. Football is the lone sport where there is no alternative - you either go to college and hope to climb to the NFL or you are done. Can't turn pro at 16 like tennis. Can't get drafted at 18 like baseball and hockey. But, because college football established itself as marketable industry long before a professional outlet became available, it has been able to collude with the NFL to keep CFB as the only path to the NFL.

College football players miss prime earning years compared to their peers in all major sports - and that is what college football players are beginning realize. They also realize that the NFL rookie contract structure makes it so that they will never come close to earning the monies that their athletic peers can between 18 and 30. Look at Dak - the most under valued player in the NFL. He'll be 27 next week is just finishing that rookie contract worth $3.6 million. He's made a reported $50m off endorsement deals (way more than most NFL players in his draft class), and add his "earnings" at MSU of a $100k education. Thats $53.7 million from 18-27. Not bad, but again unusual compared to most NFL players his age. But, compare it to an equivalent in baseball - say Jason Heyward - not a super star like Mike Trout. Heyward at age 30 has earned $98m - and is contractually owed another $79 million. That's salary alone for Jay Hey, not endorsement deals.

So, if you look through the economics of college football from a player compensation perspective - colleges are getting a deal.

First off, football is totally different than any sport mentioned, it's a grown man full contact sport. Most football players at 18-20 year old aren't even close to being a Professional. As far as the age goes to be drafted, I see no problem.
When colleges start paying players with cash or incentives to cash, then the game of college football will be filled with lawyers, agents and unions.
College football want be the same giving football players money, then what will all the other sport program players think about their share? This giving money to football players go way beyond just them.

[BrunswickDawg]

First off, football is totally different than any sport mentioned, it's a grown man full contact sport. Most football players at 18-20 year old aren't even close to being a Professional. As far as the age goes to be drafted, I see no problem.
When colleges start paying players with cash or incentives to cash, then the game of college football will be filled with lawyers, agents and unions.
College football want be the same giving football players money, then what will all the other sport program players think about their share? This giving money to football players go way beyond just them.

We wouldn't know, we've never been allowed to find out. And, believe me, there would be players who could do it. I KNOW Herschel and Bo could have. Probably Deion Sanders and Randy Moss. Probably a number of skill position guys can. Yeah, guys like that are the exception - but so are Tiger, Kobe, Agassi, McEnroe, Serena Williams, Wayne Rooney, Bryce Hunter, Ronald Acuna, etc. They had the talent and opportunity to do it. Along with them are thousands who never made it as household names but maximized their abilities and earnings to make a comfortable life for themselves and their families. You would have the same thing in the NFL - the NFL would put money in player development, get those guys to a training table just like the SEC does, and in a year or maybe two a guy like Chris Jones or Jeff Simmons could make their way into the rotation.

[FISHDAWG]

We wouldn't know, we've never been allowed to find out. And, believe me, there would be players who could do it. I KNOW Herschel and Bo could have. Probably Deion Sanders and Randy Moss. Probably a number of skill position guys can. Yeah, guys like that are the exception - but so are Tiger, Kobe, Agassi, McEnroe, Serena Williams, Wayne Rooney, Bryce Hunter, Ronald Acuna, etc. They had the talent and opportunity to do it. Along with them are thousands who never made it as household names but maximized their abilities and earnings to make a comfortable life for themselves and their families. You would have the same thing in the NFL - the NFL would put money in player development, get those guys to a training table just like the SEC does, and in a year or maybe two a guy like Chris Jones or Jeff Simmons could make their way into the rotation.

A university's objective is to give a student athlete an education ... not to recruit for the NFL, NBA, MLB, or PGA .... both sides benefit already - how is this a bad thing? What else does the university owe them?

[BrunswickDawg]

A university's objective is to give a student athlete an education ... not to recruit for the NFL, NBA, MLB, or PGA .... both sides benefit already - how is this a bad thing? What else does the university owe them?

In theory, I don't disagree. But, the first time a college football coach became the highest paid employee on campus, it quit being about giving a student athlete an education. We can pretend all we want to that CFB is about the student athlete, but it hasn't been for a long time. DIII and NAIA is about student athletes. DI is all about money.

[Political Hack]

I think you buried the lede with this. The economic impact of college football is enormous. It's not 1980 with a handful of teams on TV, and boys scouts running the concessions to fund trips to the Jamboree anymore. It's not even 2010 anymore. Just look at the impact a relevant, winning football team has had on our school and Starkville. CFB is a multi-billion dollar industry just like the NFL. Yes, players get an education and benefits. But, is that really in scale with the overall economy of college football?
Is roughly $100,000 over 4 years a fair share of the pie? When the SEC is making $651 million; MSU athletics is making $65 million (after subtracting the SEC share of the $651 m); ESPN & CBS make Billions; Adidas, Learfield, Aaramark, Starkville, etc all make millions; and the local economy of small businesses all exist because of a game you play? ESPN can show you in hype commercials for games, use you to sell their websites and publication, but you can get suspended for a free meal. Is that a fair system of compensation?

Now, I do think the PAC12 players are jumping the gun here. I think the NIL system has the potential to help equalize some of this. I don't have an answer, but I totally understand how the argument can be made that as a total system, CFB players are providing a bigger benefit to the schools then what they are receiving in return.

Good to see a fellow American in here that believes you should be able to earn some of the money you help generate. Rest of you socialist need to go to China.

[basedog]

In theory, I don't disagree. But, the first time a college football coach became the highest paid employee on campus, it quit being about giving a student athlete an education. We can pretend all we want to that CFB is about the student athlete, but it hasn't been for a long time. DIII and NAIA is about student athletes. DI is all about money.

So your saying draft eligibility after High School graduation. If so, I could live with that, I'm just not for universities paying student athletes.

[Lord McBuckethead]

I think you buried the lede with this. The economic impact of college football is enormous. It's not 1980 with a handful of teams on TV, and boys scouts running the concessions to fund trips to the Jamboree anymore. It's not even 2010 anymore. Just look at the impact a relevant, winning football team has had on our school and Starkville. CFB is a multi-billion dollar industry just like the NFL. Yes, players get an education and benefits. But, is that really in scale with the overall economy of college football?
Is roughly $100,000 over 4 years a fair share of the pie? When the SEC is making $651 million; MSU athletics is making $65 million (after subtracting the SEC share of the $651 m); ESPN & CBS make Billions; Adidas, Learfield, Aaramark, Starkville, etc all make millions; and the local economy of small businesses all exist because of a game you play? ESPN can show you in hype commercials for games, use you to sell their websites and publication, but you can get suspended for a free meal. Is that a fair system of compensation?

Now, I do think the PAC12 players are jumping the gun here. I think the NIL system has the potential to help equalize some of this. I don't have an answer, but I totally understand how the argument can be made that as a total system, CFB players are providing a bigger benefit to the schools then what they are receiving in return.

100% agree, but then you can argue to say screw the players and their unequal benefit. the NCAA is the only show in town and they do not have to be fair.
What is fair, really? Without the machine that is the NCAA, 98% of the players would be up shit creek, including all of hte other sports. Some baseball could go to the minors as a 35th round draft pick and starve to death for 3 years until they realize they do not have what it takes. Football players really have zero other options. Basketball....well Europe is an option.

All in all, you sign a letter of intent to meet the guidelines of the NCAA. No one forced it. It is kind of like Scotty Pippen's contract with the Bulls. I think MJ made his entire salary in 12 games or something.

I do believe all players should have the option to make side money, just like any other student. I do believe all players should be able to transfer to any college that would admit them, like all other students have the ability to do. I do not like what each of these mean for college sports, but fair is fair.

Could we get Leo Seal family to "hire" a few 5* players to be official spokesmen for the bank. Pay them a few hundred thousand a year. Sure. but then old tobacco dude from Ole Miss could pay their guys a million a year. Slippery slope, but fair is fair. They should have the same rights as other students and no one else should be able to use their likeness if they cannot. Espn in particular.

[FISHDAWG]

In theory, I don't disagree. But, the first time a college football coach became the highest paid employee on campus, it quit being about giving a student athlete an education. We can pretend all we want to that CFB is about the student athlete, but it hasn't been for a long time. DIII and NAIA is about student athletes. DI is all about money.

I get what your point is and I understand that - not necessarily agreeing with it but an incredibly small percentage of these athletes go pro... so is it right to pay ALL of them for the sake of a very few? Those very few that do make it will get theirs eventually and they have the university to thank for that....but the academic and baseball scholarships just have to be content with only an education.... You're a good poster Brunswick and I enjoy your post so don't take mine as being argumentative - it's just a difference of opinion

[Extendedcab]

Which they do in baseball, basketball, soccer, tennis, golf, hockey, and a number of Olympic sports. All of those have an outlet for those who have the talent to be professionals at an early age - as young as 16 in some instances - to begin making money off of their talents. Football is the lone sport where there is no alternative - you either go to college and hope to climb to the NFL or you are done. Can't turn pro at 16 like tennis. Can't get drafted at 18 like baseball and hockey. But, because college football established itself as marketable industry long before a professional outlet became available, it has been able to collude with the NFL to keep CFB as the only path to the NFL.

College football players miss prime earning years compared to their peers in all major sports - and that is what college football players are beginning realize. They also realize that the NFL rookie contract structure makes it so that they will never come close to earning the monies that their athletic peers can between 18 and 30. Look at Dak - the most under valued player in the NFL. He'll be 27 next week is just finishing that rookie contract worth $3.6 million. He's made a reported $50m off endorsement deals (way more than most NFL players in his draft class), and add his "earnings" at MSU of a $100k education. Thats $53.7 million from 18-27. Not bad, but again unusual compared to most NFL players his age. But, compare it to an equivalent in baseball - say Jason Heyward - not a super star like Mike Trout. Heyward at age 30 has earned $98m - and is contractually owed another $79 million. That's salary alone for Jay Hey, not endorsement deals.

So, if you look through the economics of college football from a player compensation perspective - colleges are getting a deal.


College athletes are amateurs as they are supposed to be Student-Athletes. Notice the word Student comes first. The first or primary purpose of college is to get an education. If a player wants to forgo an education and be paid for his/her talents, then go get job or get drafted in some farm league to their respective sport. If an appropriate farm league does not exist, then I guess you have a business opportunity to start one! Go for it!

[Political Hack]

I can't believe he as a MODERATOR said this shit ... I'm so 17'n tired of post getting destroyed like this ... I tried to block him but the site won't let me just because he's a mod ...cant we have some threads once in a while that go uncorrupted ????

Your profanity is offensive.

[BrunswickDawg]

I get what your point is and I understand that - not necessarily agreeing with it but an incredibly small percentage of these athletes go pro... so is it right to pay ALL of them for the sake of a very few? Those very few that do make it will get theirs eventually and they have the university to thank for that....but the academic and baseball scholarships just have to be content with only an education.... You're a good poster Brunswick and I enjoy your post so don't take mine as being argumentative - it's just a difference of opinion

No harm no foul Fish -

I think the overall point I'm making is two fold - 1) this is a much more complicated issue than other sports that have a professional route; and 2) the time is long passed that "amateurism" and "student-athlete" is the reality that we should be basing decisions on - at least at DI football. Really, with the overall scope of money involved; the year round commitment by the athletes; and the way the entire system profits off of the program, there is room and funding for change. People can lament the change, and that's fine. I don't like the DH and astro turf - so we all have changes about sports we don't like. Life moves on.

[DeltaChicagoDog]

Thats insane! They are getting paid - FREE EDUCATION plus other perks! Read other posts from people that received those perks in the past.

The players put in many many hours each week trying to improve the product their school is selling - football. The hours are outside of those required for the free education. Any other student on a full scholarship who also works a job will get paid for the work they do. Usually, the more money they bring in for the company means they get paid more, at least market value. Why shouldn't the players have a comparable opportunity?

[Extendedcab]

The players put in many many hours each week trying to improve the product their school is selling - football. The hours are outside of those required for the free education. Any other student on a full scholarship who also works a job will get paid for the work they do. Usually, the more money they bring in for the company means they get paid more, at least market value. Why shouldn't the players have a comparable opportunity?

Let them go pro if they can! They do not have to stay in school!

[BrunswickDawg]

Let them go pro if they can! They do not have to stay in school!

Which - thru collusion with the NFL - you know football players can't just "go pro".

[DeltaChicagoDog]

Honestly, would you say that to a student who gets a job? Go pro/quit school if you don't like the free education you get?

[Extendedcab]

Which - thru collusion with the NFL - you know football players can't just "go pro".

Why not pay pee-wee players or junior high or high school players? The club/school is making money off of them as well, not as much as college but money still the same. By your standard they should all get paid - someone is making money and "I" want my share. I smell major league greed here as this has only become an "issue" since the money involved has become so much.

[Extendedcab]

Honestly, would you say that to a student who gets a job? Go pro/quit school if you don't like the free education you get?

Yes, I would say that to anybody that was not satisfied going to college for whatever reason. College was supposed to be an investment in ones future, to learn a profession that requires years of study and one that would serve you well for your entire career. If you don't have what it takes to graduate or if you are unsatisfied with college itself, or if you do not see the value of a college education, then why stay, obviously you have other plans or desires. Pursue them, whatever they are!

[Thick]

The players put in many many hours each week trying to improve the product their school is selling - football. The hours are outside of those required for the free education. Any other student on a full scholarship who also works a job will get paid for the work they do. Usually, the more money they bring in for the company means they get paid more, at least market value. Why shouldn't the players have a comparable opportunity?

What you?re saying is complete horse s h i t! Student athletes have a choice. They can accept a free college education or they can walk on and pay it themselves.

You?re damn right student athletes put in more hours then academic scholly students do, but athletic scholarships cover EVERYTHING plus athletes have ALL the advantage Sl academically that regular students don?t. They have the best/easiest profs, they have TUTORS, and a few other things as well.

Stop acting like these guys are mistreated. In all actuality, their 3-4 years of college is the best lifestyle they have ever had to this point in their lives. I?d say 80-90%.

Let?s say you were going to pay players from ALL sports, bc you would have too. What does that $65mm look like after you?ve paid everyone? How would our donors react to this, bc the Bulldog Club would probably have to raise more money for upgrades? What would ticket prices look like, and how would attendance be effected too? It would be a major issue with a lasting effect on MSU and Starkville. You want to fix something fix the baseball scholarship issue that really does HURT student athletes!!

[FISHDAWG]

Your profanity is offensive.

My apologies... I will do better

[BrunswickDawg]

Why not pay pee-wee players or junior high or high school players? The club/school is making money off of them as well, not as much as college but money still the same. By your standard they should all get paid - someone is making money and "I" want my share. I smell major league greed here as this has only become an "issue" since the money involved has become so much.

Ah, the slippery slope argument, which of course has nothing to do with reality. And notice throughout all of my posts in this, I have never called for paying the players. I've simply laid out the economics of why they have an argument that the current terms of compensation are out of line. The current system was established at a time when money wasn't a driving force and players really were students first. That paradigm and those circumstances don't exist in DI anymore. It's actually in the best interest of P5 schools to improve and expand compensation - as it is such an important economic engine. If they forgo that you have the same impacts we've been discussing in what happens if we don't play this season - the schools and the surrounding economy will be hammered. I love college football, and I want MSU to thrive. If that means we expand insurance, or increase stipends, or allow structured payments for image licensing, I'm willing to discuss it.

You know, one of the things about this is we have an entire part of our business school centered around entrepreneurship, and fostering students to make money with their ideas. A lot of those kids making ideas in there are on major scholarships funded by the university - And yet they get to benefit off of their abilities and the resources of the university. But, people want to deny athletes essentially the same thing, using their talent to advance themselves and establish the ability to make money outside of school.

[DeltaChicagoDog]

If all hell broke loose as you say and donors, etc. wouldn't put up with it, maybe college football would come to resemble amateur sports again.

[SheltonChoked]

Yes, and where does it end? What about the cheerleaders, the band, ball boys, managers, etc, shouldn't they get a piece of it too because they're all involved in the experience as well. Some businesses(huge multi-billion dollar companies) have internships where you make little to nothing/nothing just to get a chance to learn or develop a skill where you can make a big paycheck and career. Do like a baseball, make a minor league for those that don't want to go play college ball and get an education. This would be opening pandoras box. Heck most football players are probably getting paid more and getting perks that are more than they would get from some revenue sharing deal, especially in the SEC.

How many interns work for free for 4 years in your Billion dollar company?


At the one I am at, we pay the interns and they only work 6 months.

[Thick]

If all hell broke loose as you say and donors, etc. wouldn't put up with it, maybe college football would come to resemble amateur sports again.

See you?re missing the point. If you take from that $65mm to pay players, then you would have to ask donors for more money. Ticket prices would increase, concessions would increase, etc. Fans would have to make a choice if they want to increase their spend to accommodate kids getting paid even though everything they are currently receiving is free for them. Fans start saying, I?m staying at home and watching it on TV, now Starkville businesses are being effected and their prices go up. The cause and effect of paying players is not a win/win for anyone but the players. Let?s also not forget we have to pay our coaching staffs as well. You pay players and you have just ruined amateur sports while also ruining the college game day atmosphere.

[Coach34]

Thick and I are on the same page with all of this.

College football players put in alot of hours but they also get treated like royalty because of it. They have access to tutors and other academic help that your average student does not. Let's not forget the time studying by some students in certain majors that simply require it because of the complexity of it. My oldest offspring is in the home stretch of a pharmacy degree and I promise you she has spent as many hours studying as your average college football player spends doing things per week.

There may be 2 or 3 HS kids in the entire country ready for the NFL each signing period at the most. Football is just different. Baseball players dont go from being drafted straight to MLB- they need a few years to grow. Same with football players. Look at the 3 year guys we've had in Cox, Simmons, Jones, Gay, McKinney. All tremendous athletes and great pros. Simmons is the only one of the group that was possibly ready for the NFL after 2 years of college- let alone straight out of HS. Huge difference in an 18 year old kid and a 20 year old transitioning into a man. The fact you had to go back to Hershal, Bo, Dupree, and guys like that only makes the point. Those are generational talents- none of which we have seen in the 35 years since except maybe for a guy like AP

[Coach34]

How many interns work for free for 4 years in your Billion dollar company?


What college did those interns educate themselves in before becoming interns? They dont graduate HS and then become interns in most major businesses

[Thick]

How many interns work for free for 4 years in your Billion dollar company?


At the one I am at, we pay the interns and they only work 6 months.

Internships are used for recruitment of high performing students to maybe eventually joining that company. It?s no different then recruiting a 4 or 5 star player, ie, paying them to sign that LOI.

[Cooterpoot]

The players put in many many hours each week trying to improve the product their school is selling - football. The hours are outside of those required for the free education. Any other student on a full scholarship who also works a job will get paid for the work they do. Usually, the more money they bring in for the company means they get paid more, at least market value. Why shouldn't the players have a comparable opportunity?

All players aren't equal. Why should the third string Sr get paid money based on your theory. Walk on? Those guys aren't seeing much more than scout team action.
What about the female soccer players nobody watch? With title 9, football can't suck up all the benefits. It's Pandora's Box.
And I've got a college athlete that would benefit. I have no problem with school and living expenses, but that's it.

[Cowbell]

How many interns work for free for 4 years in your Billion dollar company?


At the one I am at, we pay the interns and they only work 6 months.

I wish I could have gotten an internship that paid my room, board, tuition, and any other fees. And one where my female coworkers wear short skirts and cheer for me to succeed.I would have fought over that. Heck, anybody on here would have. Sign me up for 4 years of that.

[Coach34]

I wish I could have gotten an internship that paid my room, board, tuition, and any other fees. And one where my female coworkers wear short skirts and cheer for me to succeed.I would have fought over that. Heck, anybody on here would have. Sign me up for 4 years of that.

These people trained somewhere to get drafted as an intern. Major businesses arent signing interns out of HS

[Really Clark?]

What’s our stipend now? $5-5,300? Plus those who qualify, which many do, still are awarded Pell grants and MTAG (as small as it is). But those combined are probably still close to the same amount as many regular students who work 20 hours per week while going to school full time. Actually since it’s tax free that’s more money than a $10 per hour job 20 hours per week.

I think most P5 schools full cost of their scholarships run $100,000-$300,000+ over 5 years...many still do redshirt and stay for 5 years. Depending on the school, Vandy, Stanford, USC, Duke, etc. you are looking at $400,000 with everything including Pell Grants. And I don’t see basketball players sitting by and not clamoring for the same amounts that football players receive. Those are not insignificant amounts of money we are talking.

As far looking at what the SEC school get from football, $65 MIL, that’s what? 60-70% of our total athletic budget? What sports are we eliminating to pay for player salaries? So because we want to pay football players we want to eliminate opportunities to many other student athletes? The numbers just don’t work, when looking at the entire athletic budget.

[DownwardDawg]

How many interns work for free for 4 years in your Billion dollar company?


At the one I am at, we pay the interns and they only work 6 months.

This type of thinking is destroying this country.

[DownwardDawg]

These people trained somewhere to get drafted as an intern. Major businesses arent signing interns out of HS

Nope. These interns are paying massive student loans or their parents have spent a ton on their education.

[Coach34]

Nope. These interns are paying massive student loans or their parents have spent a ton on their education.

They pay the price to be drafted by bigtime companies. Just like athletes do.

[Political Hack]

My apologies... I will do better

Lol. I was expecting more.

[DownwardDawg]

They pay the price to be drafted by bigtime companies. Just like athletes do.

Yeah. I was actually agreeing with you.

[SheltonChoked]

What college did those interns educate themselves in before becoming interns? They dont graduate HS and then become interns in most major businesses

We start hiring as Freshmen.

One of them is on the Board of Directors now (15 years later).

[SheltonChoked]

I wish I could have gotten an internship that paid my room, board, tuition, and any other fees. Sign me up for 4 years of that.

You would have worked 50 hours a week for no pay, and just room and board for 4 years? I'll take you up on that.

[SheltonChoked]

This type of thinking is destroying this country.


Paying people to work is destroying the country?

How so?

[SheltonChoked]

Internships are used for recruitment of high performing students to maybe eventually joining that company. It?s no different then recruiting a 4 or 5 star player, ie, paying them to sign that LOI.

And unpaid internships don't last 4-5 years. They last a college semester. And if the benefit of the internship is for the Employer, ( like say making millions of dollars of the labor of the intern), It's illegal.

That's the point.

[SheltonChoked]

All players aren't equal. Why should the third string Sr get paid money based on your theory. Walk on? Those guys aren't seeing much more than scout team action.
What about the female soccer players nobody watch? With title 9, football can't suck up all the benefits. It's Pandora's Box.
And I've got a college athlete that would benefit. I have no problem with school and living expenses, but that's it.


Does it benefit the school or the player?

Let's see what happened with N&L...

[basedog]

Wait a minute how did PAC12 players get involved in internships discussion? Asking for a friend**

[maroonmania]

Yes, I would say that to anybody that was not satisfied going to college for whatever reason. College was supposed to be an investment in ones future, to learn a profession that requires years of study and one that would serve you well for your entire career. If you don't have what it takes to graduate or if you are unsatisfied with college itself, or if you do not see the value of a college education, then why stay, obviously you have other plans or desires. Pursue them, whatever they are!

Totally agree. Getting a college education is primarily for getting a person the credentials needed to get the job or career they want to have. If you can get that job/career after finishing 2 years in college or even no years in college then the utility of college disappears. If players have a gripe about being stuck in college when they could go pro the gripe is with the NFL not the colleges. The NFL sets their own parameters on what age they are willing to draft or sign a player. I would LOVE it if football was like baseball where the NFL had their own minor leagues. I personally love supporting MSU football, just like MSU baseball, and if a player doesn't want to be at MSU or doesn't want to be a college student then I wish there was a way for him to hone his football skills without being forced to be a college student. As long as everyone is playing by the same rules I would still love MSU football all the same. And if they did that, I wouldn't give a rip about minor league football just like I don't give a rip about minor league baseball. A big reason college football does as well as it does is because it has a built in loyal fanbase no matter who the players are. As an alumni of MSU I am much more loyal to MSU teams than I would be of a team for a city I just happen to be living in.

[Really Clark?]

We start hiring as Freshmen.

One of them is on the Board of Directors now (15 years later).

Sorry, I don’t believe your company is hiring paid interns as freshman in college...and not to mention they still have to you know, go to school for a few years before they even get paid intern opportunities for a short time. But nobody is paying interns starting as freshman, every week while they also attend school. Maybe you mean something else but if not, that’s a huge stretch to believe students are working as paid interns for the entire time they also are in college

[Really Clark?]

And unpaid internships don't last 4-5 years. They last a college semester. And if the benefit of the internship is for the Employer, ( like say making millions of dollars of the labor of the intern), It's illegal.

That's the point.

It’s an invalid point. The intern is also benefitting from learning in their field prior to having the degree and getting real world application experience. The company gets to see if the students aptitude will benefit both for a full time position when they graduate. But to your false logic of your example, then the 100 workers of a company who directly contribute to a company making $100 MIL deserve half of that income, no matter if they work clean up, assembly, manager, VP, etc.? That’s your example? Yeah that’s not anywhere in the realm of the galaxy illegal. Absurd example

[Thick]

And unpaid internships don't last 4-5 years. They last a college semester. And if the benefit of the internship is for the Employer, ( like say making millions of dollars of the labor of the intern), It's illegal.

That's the point.

So, the college athlete is getting nothing in return for his scholarship?? A very, very small opportunity to play NFL ball, but a very, very big employment opportunity that was free to him/her family.

Internships are just like recruiting kids, you think that they could be a good fit in your system/business that?s why you are lifting your dress and showing them a peak underneath.

Paying college athletes would RUIN college sports....period!!!

[Thick]

It’s an invalid point. The intern is also benefitting from learning in their field prior to having the degree and getting real world application experience. The company gets to see if the students aptitude will benefit both for a full time position when they graduate. But to your false logic of your example, then the 100 workers of a company who directly contribute to a company making $100 MIL deserve half of that income, no matter if they work clean up, assembly, manager, VP, etc.? That’s your example? Yeah that’s not anywhere in the realm of the galaxy illegal. Absurd example

And that?s an excellent example of a message board ?mic drop?. Bravo

[Commercecomet24]

So, the college athlete is getting nothing in return for his scholarship?? A very, very small opportunity to play NFL ball, but a very, very big employment opportunity that was free to him/her family.

Internships are just like recruiting kids, you think that they could be a good fit in your system/business that?s why you are lifting your dress and showing them a peak underneath.

Paying college athletes would RUIN college sports....period!!!

Yes, yes, yes!

[SheltonChoked]

Sorry, I don?t believe your company is hiring paid interns as freshman in college...and not to mention they still have to you know, go to school for a few years before they even get paid intern opportunities for a short time. But nobody is paying interns starting as freshman, every week while they also attend school. Maybe you mean something else but if not, that?s a huge stretch to believe students are working as paid interns for the entire time they also are in college

I don't care what you "believe". We hire as young as 2nd semester freshman student as an interns. They are here for a semester. They learn and get class credit. We pay them, pay housing, we pay travel. If we like the kid and they do good work, they go to another office the next year (Paris, Belgium, China, Korea) and so on. We get kids from all over.

All the companies I worked for paid interns. We get useful work out of them that benefits the company, it's illegal to not pay them.

[SheltonChoked]

It?s an invalid point. The intern is also benefitting from learning in their field prior to having the degree and getting real world application experience. The company gets to see if the students aptitude will benefit both for a full time position when they graduate. But to your false logic of your example, then the 100 workers of a company who directly contribute to a company making $100 MIL deserve half of that income, no matter if they work clean up, assembly, manager, VP, etc.? That?s your example? Yeah that?s not anywhere in the realm of the galaxy illegal. Absurd example


You benefit from "learning in your field" now or you are a shitty worker, do you get paid?

In your example, does the company pay their workers? Or do they work for room and board?

That's the argument sorry you missed it...

[Really Clark?]

I don't care what you "believe". We hire as young as 2nd semester freshman student as an interns. They are here for a semester. They learn and get class credit. We pay them, pay housing, we pay travel. If we like the kid and they do good work, they go to another office the next year (Paris, Belgium, China, Korea) and so on. We get kids from all over.

All the companies I worked for paid interns. We get useful work out of them that benefits the company, it's illegal to not pay them.

And football players are paid a full scholarship, plus stipend not to mention many receive grants. And you are not paying interns as a normal program then and they are not getting paid for the ENTIRE year. They are not also interning for 4-5 semesters over their 4-5 years prior to graduation. Not enough time to get the required hours to graduate going by what you are staying your company does. Most interns get paid but they also have to pay for their schooling as well...you cannot eliminate that part of the equation. It is a benefit, it literally is called a benefit by the NCAA.

[Really Clark?]

You benefit from "learning in your field" now or you are a shitty worker, do you get paid?

In your example, does the company pay their workers? Or do they work for room and board?

That's the argument sorry you missed it...

It’s still an invalid argument. If I pay workers for room and board, that is a benefit to them. Same as players. Just like I pay for or partially pay for insurance, 401k matching, etc. How about we do this instead, we pay players X number of dollars but they have to pay for their own expenses. You know, housing, food, tuition, books, etc. Make it like the real world. The total value of 4-5 years football scholarship is worth 10, 20, 30 times (depending on school) what an internship or work study program is worth in actual dollar value.

[SheltonChoked]

It?s still an invalid argument. If I pay workers for room and board, that is a benefit to them. Same as players. Just like I pay for or partially pay for insurance, 401k matching, etc. How about we do this instead, we pay players X number of dollars but they have to pay for their own expenses. You know, housing, food, tuition, books, etc. Make it like the real world. The total value of 4-5 years football scholarship is worth 10, 20, 30 times (depending on school) what an internship or work study program is worth in actual dollar value.

No it's not.

Do the athletes create value for college sports? Yes or no?

[Really Clark?]

No it's not.

Do the athletes create value for college sports? Yes or no?

All athletes? You going to include tTitle IX in this? Do workers at a company create value? Yes, of course same as athletes but do they all have equal value? Absolutely not. Are players already compensated for their value already to the tune of $30,000-$70,000 per year depending on the school? You absolutely bet they are. You want to pay them a salary, fine, but you have to eliminate benefits as well to make the monies work. The corporation (school) takes a majority of the revenue generated by the most profitable company (football) and redistributes the revenue across all of the companies under that corporation to make the entire corporation stronger, to stay in compliance with federal mandates (Title IX) and to give opportunities to a more diverse workforce across the entire corporation(non-revenue sports). Not to mention that this whole plan is dependent on all of the corporations agreeing to continue profit share across all schools in a conference. What happens when the wealthiest schools decide, nope, we want our actual share that we earned. Does every conference have to pay players the same amount? Why shouldn’t the SEC get to pay more since it has more money at its disposal? Your example doesn’t work, it’s invalid. And a full compensated scholarship (which football players are the only ones who can get this much) is already compensation to them. What’s the number you think they deserve above what they are already given as a benefit? Haven’t seen you or anyone really put forth an actual salary they deserve and what will be eliminated to pay for it. Sucks for those athletes

[Maroonthirteen]

No it's not.

Do the athletes create value for college sports? Yes or no?

The college brand is what creates value. If it was just the athletes that created the value, the xfl and every other minor league would have huge tv contracts as soon as the valuable player left college.

[SheltonChoked]

The college brand is what creates value. If it was just the athletes that created the value, the xfl and every other minor league would have huge tv contracts as soon as the valuable player left college.


So you watch sports without athletes?

And those examples pay players. If they could get them to play for free, they would be much more profitable

Interesting, tell me more....

[SheltonChoked]

All athletes? You going to include tTitle IX in this? Do workers at a company create value? Yes, of course same as athletes but do they all have equal value? Absolutely not. Are players already compensated for their value already to the tune of $30,000-$70,000 per year depending on the school? You absolutely bet they are. You want to pay them a salary, fine, but you have to eliminate benefits as well to make the monies work. The corporation (school) takes a majority of the revenue generated by the most profitable company (football) and redistributes the revenue across all of the companies under that corporation to make the entire corporation stronger, to stay in compliance with federal mandates (Title IX) and to give opportunities to a more diverse workforce across the entire corporation(non-revenue sports). Not to mention that this whole plan is dependent on all of the corporations agreeing to continue profit share across all schools in a conference. What happens when the wealthiest schools decide, nope, we want our actual share that we earned. Does every conference have to pay players the same amount? Why shouldn?t the SEC get to pay more since it has more money at its disposal? Your example doesn?t work, it?s invalid. And a full compensated scholarship (which football players are the only ones who can get this much) is already compensation to them. What?s the number you think they deserve above what they are already given as a benefit? Haven?t seen you or anyone really put forth an actual salary they deserve and what will be eliminated to pay for it. Sucks for those athletes

You ignored the question.

Do the athletes create value for sports?

You keep adding strawmen about "equal value". I never said that. Try to keep up.

I see your argument is they are already compensated for it, so if you have a kid that gets an academic scholarship that pays for his school, you'd be ok with him or her getting the athletic scholarship in cash?