Where will you draw the line....

[Cowbell]

I apologize if this gets political but I would ask that we control the debating here and keep it mature.

Where do you draw the line? At what point in all this craziness will you decide to quit sports? Kneeling? Paid college players? Mascots changed? Athletes making demands. At some point it will effect revenue at the pro level. I have my feelings but it sucks every way we look at from a tradition standpoint. I want the best for everyone involved and that means there is give and take but at some point I will quit pro sports if it goes to far.

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

I started a thread about it, but the Texas Rangers name is next in the crosshairs.

[ShotgunDawg]

I started a thread about it, but the Texas Rangers name is next in the crosshairs.

It's just in the crosshairs by an extremist. That name won't go anywhere because they are known for positive things

[SheltonChoked]

I apologize if this gets political but I would ask that we control the debating here and keep it mature.

Where do you draw the line? At what point in all this craziness will you decide to quit sports? Kneeling? Paid college players? Mascots changed? Athletes making demands. At some point it will effect revenue at the pro level. I have my feelings but it sucks every way we look at from a tradition standpoint. I want the best for everyone involved and that means there is give and take but at some point I will quit pro sports if it goes to far.

Not sure.

They are not close to my line yet...

Kneeling. Why is it a big deal? The party line is "it's disrespectful". First, since when is kneeling, disrespectful? Is it disrespectful to God when you kneel in Church? They are being more respectful than the Fans in the stands are milling around the concourse, getting concessions, talking/texting on their phones, in the bathroom, etc.

Paid college players? You mean like has happened since at least Bear and Vaught in the 1950's?

Mascots changed? Like has happened since at least Stanford in the 1920's and MSU in 1960?

Athletes making demands? Like has happened in all sports, ever?

[TrapGame]

I started a thread about it, but the Texas Rangers name is next in the crosshairs.

Walker was a Texas Ranger so they can kiss my ass.**

[DownwardDawg]

I stopped watching NFL because of the kneeling during our nations National Anthem. I don't necessarily have a line drawn where I'll stop watching all sports, but that one was too much for me.

[Extendedcab]

Not sure.

They are not close to my line yet...

Kneeling. Why is it a big deal? The party line is "it's disrespectful". First, since when is kneeling, disrespectful? Is it disrespectful to God when you kneel in Church? They are being more respectful than the Fans in the stands are milling around the concourse, getting concessions, talking/texting on their phones, in the bathroom, etc.

Paid college players? You mean like has happened since at least Bear and Vaught in the 1950's?

Mascots changed? Like has happened since at least Stanford in the 1920's and MSU in 1960?

Athletes making demands? Like has happened in all sports, ever?

The difference is, sorry you do not see it, kneeling is an act of submission and standing is a sign of equality, providing your support for and loyalty to something or someone. You kneel to God in submission as a created being that worships his creator as we are not His equal. You stand for the flag in support of, loyalty to and equality with your fellow man in defending this country and the principles for which it stands.

To do it the other way shows a lack of understanding and respect for both God and our country! Give to God what is God's and to Caesar (your country) what is Caesar's!

The things we do have meaning and always has but now the left is trying to diminish its meaning, vilify it and to rewrite history. How utterly shameful!

[Dawg2003]

The line is different for different people, but removing the Confederate flag seems pretty unanimous.

[BeardoMSU]

Not sure.

They are not close to my line yet...

Kneeling. Why is it a big deal? The party line is "it's disrespectful". First, since when is kneeling, disrespectful? Is it disrespectful to God when you kneel in Church? They are being more respectful than the Fans in the stands are milling around the concourse, getting concessions, talking/texting on their phones, in the bathroom, etc.

Paid college players? You mean like has happened since at least Bear and Vaught in the 1950's?

Mascots changed? Like has happened since at least Stanford in the 1920's and MSU in 1960?

Athletes making demands? Like has happened in all sports, ever?

Exactly.

And again, we're talking about a flag that was adopted by the MS legislation (without a people's vote) as a middle finger to black people and all the people north of the Mason-Dixon Line. Period. Nothing about that flag says "history", "heritage", "honor", or whatever positive descriptor you want to use. Why you guys insist on dying on this hill is ****ing mind boggling.

[BeardoMSU]

I stopped watching NFL because of the kneeling during our nations National Anthem. I don't necessarily have a line drawn where I'll stop watching all sports, but that one was too much for me.

So peacefully kneeling at a football game is "disrespectful" to the flag of the United States of America.....BUT, continuing to honor the flag of the rebellion that attempted to break up that same United States of America over the right to own other human beings as property, is somehow....not?

[DownwardDawg]

Exactly.

And again, we're talking about a flag that was adopted by the MS legislation (without a people's vote) as a middle finger to black people and all the people north of the Mason-Dixon Line. Period. Nothing about that flag says "history", "heritage", "honor", or whatever positive descriptor you want to use. Why you guys insist on dying on this hill is ****ing mind boggling.

Who insists on "dying on this hill"? I don't see anyone here, especially on this thread you replied to, that wants to keep the state flag. You are the only poster that mentioned the flag.

[HoopsDawg]

I don't know, but it's somewhere after changing the damn state flag.

What's going on right now in MLB is really trying my patience though.

[DownwardDawg]

So peacefully kneeling at a football game is "disrespectful" to the flag of the United States of America.....BUT, continuing to honor the flag of the rebellion that attempted to break up that same United States of America over the right to own other human beings as property, is somehow....not?

WTF are you talking about??? Why do you keep bringing up the confederate flag? It's not being discussed in this thread. We all hate the damn thing. You just want to argue.

[BeardoMSU]

WTF are you talking about??? Why do you keep bringing up the confederate flag? It's not being discussed in this thread. We all hate the damn thing. You just want to argue.

Ok, fair enough. I may have mixed this thread with the actual flag thread in my head during the replies.

However, are you sure the OP wasn't started in response to the flag debate? Because that's how I took it.

[Captain Falcon]

I think everything has to be viewed on a case by case basis.

[William Tecumsah Sherman]

Exactly, Captain Falcon. Somehow, we?ve lost the ability to so that. We?ve lost common sense.

[LC Dawg]

I guess I would draw the line on watching and supporting sports when watching and supporting sports is not enjoyable to me anymore.

[DownwardDawg]

Ok, fair enough. I may have mixed this thread with the actual flag thread in my head during the replies.

However, are you sure the OP wasn't started in response to the flag debate? Because that's how I took it.

Fair point. Maybe it was started with the flag thing in mind, but I just didn't see it that way. I hate the confederate flag but I also hate kneeling during the National Anthem.

[BeardoMSU]

Fair point. Maybe it was started with the flag thing in mind, but I just didn't see it that way. I hate the confederate flag but I also hate kneeling during the National Anthem.

Good deal. My comment was obviously mistakenly directed at your post. My bad.

[R2Dawg]

I apologize if this gets political but I would ask that we control the debating here and keep it mature.

Where do you draw the line? At what point in all this craziness will you decide to quit sports? Kneeling? Paid college players? Mascots changed? Athletes making demands. At some point it will effect revenue at the pro level. I have my feelings but it sucks every way we look at from a tradition standpoint. I want the best for everyone involved and that means there is give and take but at some point I will quit pro sports if it goes to far.

Sports used to be the diversion that brought some people together; now it is the dividing rod of hatred. Our sports issues are just a manifestation of the rest of our culture as well. This didn't happen over night. Our spiritual and moral condition has been deteriorating for decades and finally coming to a head. Now some will say we are advancing. Look at the proof, not sure how anyone can buy that. Simply not true.

[Leroy Jenkins]

Tear down those pyramids in Egypt that the slaves built.

[BeardoMSU]

Tear down those pyramids in Egypt that the slaves built.

You can't prove aliens didn't do it.*

[Jarius]

If we do something like Florida did yesterday to one of our traditions I will gracefully bow out until the administration that allows cancel culture to take something like that is replaced.

[BeardoMSU]

one of our traditions

What tradition(s) do you cherish so much?

[fader2103]

Mascots changed? Like has happened since at least Stanford in the 1920's and MSU in 1960?

Athletes making demands? Like has happened in all sports, ever?

Ole Miss has changed their mascot twice in the last few years.

[Turfdawg67]

To the OP... guess I'll know when we get there. Right now, not even close.

[DownwardDawg]

Good deal. My comment was obviously mistakenly directed at your post. My bad.

We good man.

[DownwardDawg]

You can't prove aliens didn't do it.*

Haha!!

[NWADAWG]

I stopped watching NFL because of the kneeling during our nations National Anthem. I don't necessarily have a line drawn where I'll stop watching all sports, but that one was too much for me.

I haven't stopped watching pro sports but I have drastically reduced watching pro sports. For me it is a cumulative issue. It was baseball strikes 20? years ago. It is constant interjection of politics and drama. It is constantly hearing about the stupid crimes by athletes especially involving minors. It's kneeling at the national anthem. It just seems that sports used to be about going on the field and seeing which team is better and now not so much.

I understand that a lot of this was surely happening in the old days too prior to social media and everyone carrying cell phones but I never saw it. That doesn't make it any more OK but when I watched games, all I saw was the game.

I don't care two baby rat turds about what color, gender, religion,... any player, cheerleader, owner, coach, ... is. I just want teams to play the game and let their hard work and talent be the story.

[DownwardDawg]

I haven't stopped watching pro sports but I have drastically reduced watching pro sports. For me it is a cumulative issue. It was baseball strikes 20? years ago. It is constant interjection of politics and drama. It is constantly hearing about the stupid crimes by athletes especially involving minors. It's kneeling at the national anthem. It just seems that sports used to be about going on the field and seeing which team is better and now not so much.

I understand that a lot of this was surely happening in the old days too prior to social media and everyone carrying cell phones but I never saw it. That doesn't make it any more OK but when I watched games, all I saw was the game.

I don't care two baby rat turds about what color, gender, religion,... any player, cheerleader, owner, coach, ... is. I just want teams to play the game and let their hard work and talent be the story.

I hear you man. I agree 100%. And I forgot about the pro baseball strike. that's when I stopped watching MLB. I was a fan up to that point, but lost interest.

[JayDawg]

NWADAWG, that's easy to say, but the world is more complicated than that. Without protests and arguments would there even be black athletes? I don't have to the time to look up sources, but I'm betting sports and politics have been intertwined for a long time.

[Rex54]

Everyone wants to be the smart guy, above it all, not acting as if they don't notice the overall trend of the Bolshevism on the rise in America. That's a much bigger issue than a stupid flag.

[dawgday166]

What tradition(s) do you cherish so much?

Hunting, fishing? Michael Waddell just posted a video about death threats he's receiving and has received.

I think Mississippi flag should be changed for sure. Confederate flag should not be flying from Mississippi public buildings unless they're Civil War historical sites maybe, and then along with US Flag. I'm fine with discussion (may take a little time) on removing statues to museums or what not ... but not just destroying and tearing them down.

Fine with Nascar banning Confederate Flag. That's up to Nascar. But .. if someone wants to display it in their yard ... that's free speech. Same if someone wants to kneel during the National Anthem.

I'm fine with folks doing whatever the hell they wanna do in their personal lives, as long as they aren't hurting other folks physically, sexually, and in some cases mentally (depends on situation and should be close relationship like adult/child ... that's a tougher one). On the mental any adult usually can choose to just leave (although not always). So that's a tougher one.

Take the LGBT thing tho. If that's what they want to do ... fine. Don't understand it but I'll be nice an polite with them. Don't hate them and won't act that way towards them. I may and probably will choose not to hang out with them tho. That's my free choice. I have a couple of relatives that are LGBT. One very close one and I'm fine with both of them. Where that gets very tricky is male/female bathroom and men's/women's sports for transgender. Some kinda line needs to be drawn there IMO.

But if folks wanting all this "change" ... some of which is definitely warranted IMO, and they want to be "free" to do what they want and be treated fairly ... that also works both ways. Otherwise they just trying to do what has been historically done to them, from their perspective. So then it becomes about Power and maybe Revenge ... not Mutually Beneficial Change.

ETA: The only thing I would add is SEC fans have been oppressed for too long by Bama fans. Need to remove all Bama paraphernalia from EVERYWHERE. No exceptions ***** I am however, fine with whiskey distilling, weed growing, dog kicking, rednecks in Bama.

[Jarius]

What tradition(s) do you cherish so much?

None really. I just won’t be a fan of a school with an administration that allows these racist idiots to cuck them.

[Duckdog]

So let's have ANOTHER state vote. I bet thr flag wont change.

[R2Dawg]

Hunting, fishing? Michael Waddell just posted a video about death threats he's receiving and has received.

I think Mississippi flag should be changed for sure. Confederate flag should not be flying from Mississippi public buildings unless they're Civil War historical sites maybe, and then along with US Flag. I'm fine with discussion (may take a little time) on removing statues to museums or what not ... but not just destroying and tearing them down.

Fine with Nascar banning Confederate Flag. That's up to Nascar. But .. if someone wants to display it in their yard ... that's free speech. Same if someone wants to kneel during the National Anthem.

I'm fine with folks doing whatever the hell they wanna do in their personal lives, as long as they aren't hurting other folks physically, sexually, and in some cases mentally (depends on situation and should be close relationship like adult/child ... that's a tougher one). On the mental any adult usually can choose to just leave (although not always). So that's a tougher one.

Take the LGBT thing tho. If that's what they want to do ... fine. Don't understand it but I'll be nice an polite with them. Don't hate them and won't act that way towards them. I may and probably will choose not to hang out with them tho. That's my free choice. I have a couple of relatives that are LGBT. One very close one and I'm fine with both of them. Where that gets very tricky is male/female bathroom and men's/women's sports for transgender. Some kinda line needs to be drawn there IMO.

But if folks wanting all this "change" ... some of which is definitely warranted IMO, and they want to be "free" to do what they want and be treated fairly ... that also works both ways. Otherwise they just trying to do what has been historically done to them, from their perspective. So then it becomes about Power and maybe Revenge ... not Mutually Beneficial Change.

You got it, it is about a power play. They talk tolerance but are intolerance to anyone with a different opinion on anything. I too don't have an issue changing the flag but let it happen the right way without the power plays. We used to be a country of laws and rights but that seems to have been pushed aside for whatever anything goes action those in power want to do. I too will continue to respect anyone's opinion and life choices even if I disagree. That is America or is used to be.

[ShotgunDawg]

So let's have ANOTHER state vote. I bet thr flag wont change.

Can't do a vote here. It just has to be done.

The politicians of Mississippi need to stand for what is right here. Even if it means they don't win re-election, at least they'll be on the right side of history & history will treat their name well.

[HoopsDawg]

So let's have ANOTHER state vote. I bet thr flag wont change.

can't vote. Too many morons in MS.

[Hot Rock]

I stopped watching NFL because of the kneeling during our nations National Anthem. I don't necessarily have a line drawn where I'll stop watching all sports, but that one was too much for me.

Did you quit Trump too? He was playing and swinging his arms acting like a fool during the anthem but heaven forbid a black man kneel to call attention to a real problem in this country.

Do you think it's OK for Trump to be disrespectful or are you in denial that he did it. Do I need to go find that video? On second thought, you probably wouldn't even watch it if I did or make excuses for your man or say it was all fake.

[Leroy Jenkins]

Can't do a vote here. It just has to be done.

Hopefully, one day you dont find yourself on the other end of this sword.

[ShotgunDawg]

Hopefully, one day you dont find yourself on the other end of this sword.

I understand your point, but I'll do my best to understand the difference between right & wrong in an effort to make sure that doesn't happen

[bostondawg]

I apologize if this gets political but I would ask that we control the debating here and keep it mature.

Where do you draw the line? At what point in all this craziness will you decide to quit sports? Kneeling? Paid college players? Mascots changed? Athletes making demands. At some point it will effect revenue at the pro level. I have my feelings but it sucks every way we look at from a tradition standpoint. I want the best for everyone involved and that means there is give and take but at some point I will quit pro sports if it goes to far.

Respectfully (trying to minimize debate), these things have always happened throughout the history of sports. Sports, like any cultural institution, has always been a vehicle for change. Just because many conveniently forget this history or think that athletes should just "shut up and play ball" doesn't change this. Try to image what conservatives were saying in 1947 when Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier in baseball. "Athletes making demands. At some point it will effect revenue at the pro level. I have my feelings but it sucks every way we look at from a tradition standpoint. I want the best for everyone involved and that means there is give and take but at some point I will quit pro sports if it goes to far."

[NWADAWG]

NWADAWG, that's easy to say, but the world is more complicated than that. Without protests and arguments would there even be black athletes? I don't have to the time to look up sources, but I'm betting sports and politics have been intertwined for a long time.

I'm over 50 and can not remember a time when pro sports weren't open to all races and nationalities.

There may have been things those players dealt with that I didn't know about especially as a child but there were definitely black athletes in pro sports. Maybe the 70+ yo folks on here can remember something different.

[SheltonChoked]

You got it, it is about a power play. They talk tolerance but are intolerance to anyone with a different opinion on anything. I too don't have an issue changing the flag but let it happen the right way without the power plays. We used to be a country of laws and rights but that seems to have been pushed aside for whatever anything goes action those in power want to do. I too will continue to respect anyone's opinion and life choices even if I disagree. That is America or is used to be.

Just How long does Mississippi need?

Georgia changed theirs in in 2001 and 2003...

We knew it was wrong and sent a bad signal in 2001. 19 years ago....

South Carolina removed the Battle flag of the army of North Virginia in 2015

Gunn said we should remove it from the MS flag then
MSU and Ole Miss said it should be removed in 2015 and stopped flying the state flag on campus


The below states changed their flags for reason other than "this is to remove a symbol of hate" since 2001...

Meanwhile Louisiana has changed their flag twice since 2001, without a popular vote.

Utah changed thiers in 2011, and is changing it again this year, without a popular vote.

Iowa changed their flag in 2018


So again, How long was it going to take? Another 110 years?

[Maroonthirteen]

I'm pro flag change. I agreed the Minneapolis cop needed to be fired and prosecuted for the George Floyd death.

However I ran across a few tweets by three of our players that didn't support MHP Troopers. That really bothered me. That's the line for me. You have to understand not all Troopers and the state of MS is bad. I won't buy a ticket nor attend a football game this fall.

With that said, I was already on the fence about attending a game this year. Covid. Cohen's Gameday incompetency. Rising ticket prices and moving games for TV.... also knowing the outcome of most big games already..... I was not coming anyway unless there was a free ticket.

[ShotgunDawg]

I'm pro flag change. I agreed the Minneapolis cop needed to be fired and prosecuted for the George Floyd death.

However I ran across a few tweets by three of our players that didn't support MHP Troopers. That really bothered me. That's the line for me. You have to understand not all Troopers and the state of MS is bad. I won't buy a ticket nor attend a football game this fall.

With that said, I was already on the fence about attending a game this year. Covid. Cohen's Gameday incompetency. Rising ticket prices and moving games for TV.... also knowing the outcome of most big games already..... I was not coming to any this year anyway unless there was a free ticket.

The escalation and combining unrelated issues in this post is fascinating.

[dparker]

However I ran across a few tweets by three of our players that didn't support MHP Troopers. That really bothered me. That's the line for me. You have to understand not all Troopers and the state of MS is bad. I won't buy a ticket nor attend a football game this fall.

So what you are saying is that a few bad apples spoiled the bunch for you.

[DownwardDawg]

Did you quit Trump too? He was playing and swinging his arms acting like a fool during the anthem but heaven forbid a black man kneel to call attention to a real problem in this country.

Do you think it's OK for Trump to be disrespectful or are you in denial that he did it. Do I need to go find that video? On second thought, you probably wouldn't even watch it if I did or make excuses for your man or say it was all fake.

Wow. You don't know a thing about me.

[Cowbell]

Sports used to be the diversion that brought some people together; now it is the dividing rod of hatred. Our sports issues are just a manifestation of the rest of our culture as well. This didn't happen over night. Our spiritual and moral condition has been deteriorating for decades and finally coming to a head. Now some will say we are advancing. Look at the proof, not sure how anyone can buy that. Simply not true.

Great response - I'm starting to lose my love for sports. I use hunting as my getaway from the real world and sports use to be the same. I still love college football and baseball as much as anyone but I'm starting to question it with everything else.

[Maroonthirteen]

So what you are saying is that a few bad apples spoiled the bunch for you.

Ha. Irony I'm aware.

But the tweet they retweet/comment in.... the MHP did nothing wrong. The tweet thread is doxing the Troopers.

All 3 starters. 2 are stars.

[BrunswickDawg]

Ha. Irony I'm aware.

But the tweet they retweet/comment in.... the MHP did nothing wrong. The tweet thread is doxing the Troopers.

All 3 starters. 2 are stars.

Not defending doxing - because I am against that -

But, we also have no idea what those players frame of reference is regarding their interactions with MHP. Their only interactions might have been with an a-hole MHP officer. Hell, you've seen the way Starkville Police ticket athletes left and right, it wouldn't surprise me if they have had bad encounters with MHP, or that a number of our players have only had bad experiences with any LEOS. Trust me, having a bad police encounter will change your opinion real quickly. It's hard to get over, and hard to trust LEOs after it happens.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Sports used to be the diversion that brought some people together; now it is the dividing rod of hatred. Our sports issues are just a manifestation of the rest of our culture as well. This didn't happen over night. Our spiritual and moral condition has been deteriorating for decades and finally coming to a head. Now some will say we are advancing. Look at the proof, not sure how anyone can buy that. Simply not true.

Sports has been put on a moral pedestal and athletic privilege has become the norm. Most people wouldn't give two shits what these people care about if it wasn't for sports. It's interesting how hypocritical the diversity of sports is versus the real world. I haven't watched the NBA since Barkley said it was a "black league" and my NFL watching has declined steadily. I'll probably be done in the next 5 years.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Not defending doxing - because I am against that -

But, we also have no idea what those players frame of reference is regarding their interactions with MHP. Their only interactions might have been with an a-hole MHP officer. Hell, you've seen the way Starkville Police ticket athletes left and right, it wouldn't surprise me if they have had bad encounters with MHP, or that a number of our players have only had bad experiences with any LEOS. Trust me, having a bad police encounter will change your opinion real quickly. It's hard to get over, and hard to trust LEOs after it happens.

I can have empathy for that, but at what point does it just become a distain for any type of authority or law?

[dparker]

Ha. Irony I'm aware.

No worries. Glad you caught the irony in it.

[JayDawg]

. . . Most people wouldn't give two shits what these people care about if it wasn't for sports. It's interesting how hypocritical the diversity of sports is versus the real world. . . .

What do you mean by it's interest how hypocritical the diversity of sports is versus the real world?

[BrunswickDawg]

I can have empathy for that, but at what point does it just become a distain for any type of authority or law?

I think that if you talked to most people protesting for change, its not about disdain for authority or the law, its about people in position of authority who either believe they are above the law or are treated as though they are above the law. It is also about inequities in the judicial system. Most of the people want the system to work, and for it to be fair, and they know for that to happen, we have to move off dead center.

[Mimi's Babies]

Can't do a vote here. It just has to be done.

The politicians of Mississippi need to stand for what is right here. Even if it means they don't win re-election, at least they'll be on the right side of history & history will treat their name well.

According to State Senators, there are back room deals being done by the democrats in Jackson as late as this pm. There is a vote scheduled in the House on Monday or Tuesday. People are asking for the names of all people involved.... This crap has happened in ever Presidential elections year... 2008, 2012, 2016 and 2020... That includes the flag crap, riots, race, etc... Look back and you will see what is going on. There are those that want all of your freedoms... If people don't STAND for something then they will FALL for anything.... They are coming for your guns next.... watch DC....

[BeardoMSU]

According to State Senators, there are back room deals being done by the democrats in Jackson as late as this pm. There is a vote scheduled in the House on Monday or Tuesday. People are asking for the names of all people involved.... This crap has happened in ever Presidential elections year... 2008, 2012, 2016 and 2020... That includes the flag crap, riots, race, etc... Look back and you will see what is going on. There are those that want all of your freedoms... If people don't STAND for something then they will FALL for anything.... They are coming for your guns next.... watch DC....

I haven't missed you Mimi. FFS.

[KB21]

Hunting, fishing? Michael Waddell just posted a video about death threats he's receiving and has received.

I think Mississippi flag should be changed for sure. Confederate flag should not be flying from Mississippi public buildings unless they're Civil War historical sites maybe, and then along with US Flag. I'm fine with discussion (may take a little time) on removing statues to museums or what not ... but not just destroying and tearing them down.

Fine with Nascar banning Confederate Flag. That's up to Nascar. But .. if someone wants to display it in their yard ... that's free speech. Same if someone wants to kneel during the National Anthem.

I'm fine with folks doing whatever the hell they wanna do in their personal lives, as long as they aren't hurting other folks physically, sexually, and in some cases mentally (depends on situation and should be close relationship like adult/child ... that's a tougher one). On the mental any adult usually can choose to just leave (although not always). So that's a tougher one.

Take the LGBT thing tho. If that's what they want to do ... fine. Don't understand it but I'll be nice an polite with them. Don't hate them and won't act that way towards them. I may and probably will choose not to hang out with them tho. That's my free choice. I have a couple of relatives that are LGBT. One very close one and I'm fine with both of them. Where that gets very tricky is male/female bathroom and men's/women's sports for transgender. Some kinda line needs to be drawn there IMO.

But if folks wanting all this "change" ... some of which is definitely warranted IMO, and they want to be "free" to do what they want and be treated fairly ... that also works both ways. Otherwise they just trying to do what has been historically done to them, from their perspective. So then it becomes about Power and maybe Revenge ... not Mutually Beneficial Change.

ETA: The only thing I would add is SEC fans have been oppressed for too long by Bama fans. Need to remove all Bama paraphernalia from EVERYWHERE. No exceptions ***** I am however, fine with whiskey distilling, weed growing, dog kicking, rednecks in Bama.

This. I am all for changing the flag, but I?m not for changing it in response to cultural Marxism. That?s what this is. With cultural Marxism, it isn?t going to stop at just the flag. They will find something else that ?offends? and attack it. It?s all a tool of Marxism though.

[Commercecomet24]

I have a real fear that this is only the beginning. At some point the American Flag, statues And monuments of the founders of this great nation, statues and monuments of American war hero's and other significant people will come under fire(heck it already is in some places),and that's when it's gonna get really ugly. We need change in some areas, yes, and issues that have to be fixed for sure and it's overdue in some areas, but there's a point where the destruction has to stop.

[BeardoMSU]

I have a real fear that this is only the beginning. At some point the American Flag, statues And monuments of the founders of this great nation, statues and monuments of American war hero's and other significant people will come under fire(heck it already is in some places),and that's when it's gonna get really ugly. We need change in some areas, yes, and issues that have to be fixed for sure and it's overdue in some areas, but there's a point where the destruction has to stop.

Respectfully, I just can't buy into this argument, CC. The United States has a legacy of progress. Is our country perfect? No, of course not. We've made mistakes, made them again, but always seem to get things right in the end (as we will with the current turbulence). America rid itself of slavery, has made strides in civil rights, women's rights, education, technology, and continues to help make the world a better place. That's what the American Flag represents. You can't even remotely say the same about anything connected to the Confederacy. Nada. That's the difference here. And it's the key one.

[DownwardDawg]

I guess guns is where I draw the line. What’s happening now a a prime example of why organizations like the NRA will not budge an inch on gun control. I will never agree to ANY form of gun control because that would just be the beginning. No magazine limitations, “assault rifle” limitations, number of guns allowed in households, nothing. Never ever give an inch.

[Commercecomet24]

Respectfully, I just can't buy into this argument, CC. The United States has a legacy of progress. Is our country perfect? No, of course not. We've made mistakes, made them again, but always seem to get things right in the end (as we will with the current turbulence). America rid itself of slavery, has made strides in civil rights, women's rights, education, technology, and continues to help make the world a better place. That's what the American Flag represents. You can't even remotely say the same about anything connected to the Confederacy. Nada. That's the difference here. And it's the key one.

I understand what you're saying and always respect your opinion. However statutes of Columbus, Lincoln etc have been desecrated, and vandalized and it's been allowed to happen. The Flag has been burned, stepped on and mutilated, so obviously there's some serious hate drifting around out there. My question is where does it stop and where does it end?

ETA that's why i said in my original post that it was my fear, and that's why at some point someone has to step up and say enough.

[Cowbell]

Respectfully, I just can't buy into this argument, CC. The United States has a legacy of progress. Is our country perfect? No, of course not. We've made mistakes, made them again, but always seem to get things right in the end (as we will with the current turbulence). America rid itself of slavery, has made strides in civil rights, women's rights, education, technology, and continues to help make the world a better place. That's what the American Flag represents. You can't even remotely say the same about anything connected to the Confederacy. Nada. That's the difference here. And it's the key one.

I will have to agree with CC. In my opinion, we have gone left of center in some areas. Abortion is a prime example. We do not always get it right and in the last couple decades, we have gotten more wrong than right. And we are sliding down some slippery slopes. There will come a time in this great nation when their will be more people on welfare than their will be at work. And when Christian values will no longer be accepted as ok.

[SPMT]

I?m pretty close. Don?t care who wins or loses.

[Commercecomet24]

Respectfully, I just can't buy into this argument, CC. The United States has a legacy of progress. Is our country perfect? No, of course not. We've made mistakes, made them again, but always seem to get things right in the end (as we will with the current turbulence). America rid itself of slavery, has made strides in civil rights, women's rights, education, technology, and continues to help make the world a better place. That's what the American Flag represents. You can't even remotely say the same about anything connected to the Confederacy. Nada. That's the difference here. And it's the key one.

Hey Beardo, you ever see "No Country for Old Men"? I guess I'm feeling like Ed Tom Bell lol

[Lord McBuckethead]

The difference is, sorry you do not see it, kneeling is an act of submission and standing is a sign of equality, providing your support for and loyalty to something or someone. You kneel to God in submission as a created being that worships his creator as we are not His equal. You stand for the flag in support of, loyalty to and equality with your fellow man in defending this country and the principles for which it stands.

To do it the other way shows a lack of understanding and respect for both God and our country! Give to God what is God's and to Caesar (your country) what is Caesar's!

The things we do have meaning and always has but now the left is trying to diminish its meaning, vilify it and to rewrite history. How utterly shameful!

The difference here is kneeling to disrespect or troops or kneeling for something else entirely. I swear, its like the kneeling happened in a vacuum without any context.

[BuckyIsAB****]

It's just in the crosshairs by an extremist. That name won't go anywhere because they are known for positive things

Haha so is Drew Brees and everything else that the mob wants to end. Keep making excuses. If you let them take everything you have nothing

[Rex54]

https://twitter.com/shane_bauer/status/1274190483804184583?s=21

Down goes Francis Scott Key....

"Please please just let me have my sports" cries the eternal bugman.

[Rex54]

Respectfully, I just can't buy into this argument, CC.

Respectfully....

https://dtkp6g0samjql.cloudfront.net/uploads/photo/file/12583673/gallery_hero_il_fullxfull.1112704980_irkw.jpg

[Commercecomet24]

Respectfully, I just can't buy into this argument, CC. The United States has a legacy of progress. Is our country perfect? No, of course not. We've made mistakes, made them again, but always seem to get things right in the end (as we will with the current turbulence). America rid itself of slavery, has made strides in civil rights, women's rights, education, technology, and continues to help make the world a better place. That's what the American Flag represents. You can't even remotely say the same about anything connected to the Confederacy. Nada. That's the difference here. And it's the key one.

Just to be clear I wasn't referring to anything about the confederate flag or the confederacy, I was speaking strictly in terms of American Flag and American hero's not the confederacy at all. You're a good dude Beardo.

[starkvegasdawg]

Respectfully, I just can't buy into this argument, CC. The United States has a legacy of progress. Is our country perfect? No, of course not. We've made mistakes, made them again, but always seem to get things right in the end (as we will with the current turbulence). America rid itself of slavery, has made strides in civil rights, women's rights, education, technology, and continues to help make the world a better place. That's what the American Flag represents. You can't even remotely say the same about anything connected to the Confederacy. Nada. That's the difference here. And it's the key one.

Sadly, I think CC is right. Once every vestige of the old South has been removed they will still not be happy and will find something else to be offended over. And I am afraid if will be our American flag. While I 100% agree with your stance of what our flag stands for, not all do. What is not debatable at all is that everything people despise the confederate flag for due to the things that happened under it, also all happened under the American flag.

Don't misconstrue the following as support for slavery and racist behavior. Just hear me out. The confederacy only existed for four years. It never had time to evolve and change. When it did exist, there were lots of people, in the North and South, that either supported slavery or at least tolerated it as a way of life back then. Hell, even Lincoln is quoted as saying he wasn't concerned about it. His main concern was preserving the union at any cost. I'm paraphrasing here but he said if he could preserve the union by freeing all the slaves he would. If he could do it freeing some of them he would. But if he could do if freeing nine of them he also would do that. Also during that time the Corwin amendment was proposed which would make slavery a constitutionally protected institution if the South would rejoin the union and end the war. And just as there were people on both sides that were pro slavery, there were those in the South, too, that opposed slavery. So the seeds to ending it already existed in the South back then. It's just they never had time to sprout since they lost the war and ceased to exist as a country. How would things look today had the South one? I have no idea, but I am pretty sure slavery would have ended long ago regardless. Between more people waking up to the horror that it was and technological advances making it more productive to use machinery instead of human labor it would have ended. But had America lost a war that caused us to cease to exist as a nation in 1865 what would the legacy be of our flag from 1776-1865 and what happened under it? Is it any different than what happened under the confederate flag from 1861-1865? The US has had an extra 155 years to improve.

[BeardoMSU]

Respectfully....

https://dtkp6g0samjql.cloudfront.net/uploads/photo/file/12583673/gallery_hero_il_fullxfull.1112704980_irkw.jpg

Pretty sure you piss sitting down.**

[BiscuitEater]

So peacefully kneeling at a football game is "disrespectful" to the flag of the United States of America.....BUT, continuing to honor the flag of the rebellion that attempted to break up that same United States of America over the right to own other human beings as property, is somehow....not?


Exactly 'where' and 'when' do we stand in 'honor' of the Mississippi State flag at NFL games? And, 'what' does the band play?

[ShotgunDawg]

Haha so is Drew Brees and everything else that the mob wants to end. Keep making excuses. If you let them take everything you have nothing

This is true, but they've already moved on from Brees. He took his 48 hours of bad coverage & now is a distant memory

[Mjoelner34]

They are coming for your guns next.... watch DC....

I don't have any. I sold my entire arsenal along with the ammo to some guy they called El Gato. That must have been his fraternity nickname because I heard them say something about Zetas. Just putting that out there so nobody wastes their time searching my house or my vehicle.

[starkvegasdawg]

I don't have any. I sold my entire arsenal along with the ammo to some guy they called El Gato. That must have been his fraternity nickname because I heard them say something about Zetas. Just putting that out there so nobody wastes their time searching my house or my vehicle.

He must really like guns. I sold all mine to the same guy.

[chef dixon]

The world changes. And it's changing away from what a lot of people were comfortable in because it worked for them. What you think is right for you may be complete opposite of someone else. The world is so much bigger than any one persons view. The sooner you accept that and focus more on yourself and the ones close to you, the easier and more enjoyable life will be going forward.

[BeardoMSU]

Just to be clear I wasn't referring to anything about the confederate flag or the confederacy, I was speaking strictly in terms of American Flag and American hero's not the confederacy at all. You're a good dude Beardo.

Oh, of course, CC. I didn't do a very good job of clearly directing my comment. My post was referring to people who conflate the issue of wanting to take down Confederate imagery and the future worry that American imagery is next (not specifically directed to your comment).

Now, you're correct with the current issue of mobs destroying/vandalizing statues; its horrible, and at this point appears to be a movement. I saw how Ulysses S. Grant's statue was toppled last night...the man who trounced the Confederacy...these people are just going after every statue of a white man from the 17/1800s with rage, not logic. Now THIS absolutely is a problem, but its a separate movement from the Confederate flag/statue one. People have been debating the Confederate flag, MS flag, confederate statues, imagery, etc. for decades; literal decades...this is not something that just recently popped up. One could argue the same specifically for the Columbus statues, as various groups have been going after him for decades as well (one of my favorite episodes of the Sopranos actually focuses on this, lol). Now, given the current turmoil, its easy to conflate the 2 things, but they are still separate debates.

And of course I've seen No Country...

https://media1.tenor.com/images/1922037188ae1d9815ce4781e6d9e349/tenor.gif?itemid=10439924

[Turfdawg67]

I will have to agree with CC. In my opinion, we have gone left of center in some areas. Abortion is a prime example. We do not always get it right and in the last couple decades, we have gotten more wrong than right. And we are sliding down some slippery slopes. There will come a time in this great nation when their will be more people on welfare than their will be at work. And when Christian values will no longer be accepted as ok.

Don't misconstrue your conservative values with Christian values. If Christ came back today he'd be labeled a radical libtard for him loving all people and not giving a shit about your money, flags and statues.

[Tbonewannabe]

Just wanted to make sure this was in the discussion. Basically a former Green Beret was the person who came up with the idea of kneeling. Kapernick was doing the same thing that Marshawn Lynch had done for a long time, sit on the bench during the National Anthem.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/heres-how-nate-boyer-got-colin-kaepernick-to-go-from-sitting-to-kneeling/amp/

[Leroy Jenkins]

https://mobile.twitter.com/nypost/status/1274095543409692681




"Cheese Nips" you are on notice.

[BeardoMSU]

https://mobile.twitter.com/nypost/status/1274095543409692681




"Cheese Nips" you are on notice.

The fact they are considered "pies" is what's offensive**

[bulldawg28]

The difference is, sorry you do not see it, kneeling is an act of submission and standing is a sign of equality, providing your support for and loyalty to something or someone. You kneel to God in submission as a created being that worships his creator as we are not His equal. You stand for the flag in support of, loyalty to and equality with your fellow man in defending this country and the principles for which it stands.

To do it the other way shows a lack of understanding and respect for both God and our country! Give to God what is God's and to Caesar (your country) what is Caesar's!

The things we do have meaning and always has but now the left is trying to diminish its meaning, vilify it and to rewrite history. How utterly shameful!

You do know God doesn't honor the US flag right? All flags are equal to him and that's colored cloth.

[Commercecomet24]

Oh, of course, CC. I didn't do a very good job of clearly directing my comment. My post was referring to people who conflate the issue of wanting to take down Confederate imagery and the future worry that American imagery is next (not specifically directed to your comment).

Now, you're correct with the current issue of mobs destroying/vandalizing statues; its horrible, and at this point appears to be a movement. I saw how Ulysses S. Grant's statue was toppled last night...the man who trounced the Confederacy...these people are just going after every statue of a white man from the 17/1800s with rage, not logic. Now THIS absolutely is a problem, but its a separate movement from the Confederate flag/statue one. People have been debating the Confederate flag, MS flag, confederate statues, imagery, etc. for decades; literal decades...this is not something that just recently popped up. One could argue the same specifically for the Columbus statues, as various groups have been going after him for decades as well (one of my favorite episodes of the Sopranos actually focuses on this, lol). Now, given the current turmoil, its easy to conflate the 2 things, but they are still separate debates.

And of course I've seen No Country...

https://media1.tenor.com/images/1922037188ae1d9815ce4781e6d9e349/tenor.gif?itemid=10439924

Agreed they are definitely separate issues. I love this country and what it stands for and I'm hoping and praying our kids and grandkids can have peace and happiness. So much hate out there right now that I worry about that future. Much respect for you, brother!

ETA No country is one of my favorites lot of deep meaning outside of all the violence. Especially Ed Toms dream.

[DownwardDawg]

Agreed they are definitely separate issues. I love this country and what it stands for and I'm hoping and praying our kids and grandkids can have peace and happiness. So much hate out there right now that I worry about that future. Much respect for you, brother!

ETA No country is one of my favorites lot of deep meaning outside of all the violence. Especially Ed Toms dream.

Every night when me and my wife pray together, I pray for our nation. We need God more than ever right now.

[Todd4State]

Every night when me and my wife pray together, I pray for our nation. We need God more than ever right now.

YES! And people need to learn how to forgive and move on on both sides of every issue.

[Cowbell]

Don't misconstrue your conservative values with Christian values. If Christ came back today he'd be labeled a radical libtard for him loving all people and not giving a shit about your money, flags and statues.

And how would he feel about abortion? Same-sex marriage? Transgender?
Might try studying that Bible a little more before you spout this type of ignorance. He would be labeled none of the above I imagine. Don't mistake loving all of mankind for being tolerant and accepting all beliefs and ways of life.

Don't forget that God works through governments, good and bad alike, to accomplish his will. Wars, slavery, exile, and the like.

[Cowbell]

Every night when me and my wife pray together, I pray for our nation. We need God more than ever right now.

Amen brother!

[Commercecomet24]

Every night when me and my wife pray together, I pray for our nation. We need God more than ever right now.

Same here brother!

[Mimi's Babies]

If you have not missed me.... then just keep scrolling...

[R2Dawg]

YES! And people need to learn how to forgive and move on on both sides of every issue.

Yep this is a key to recovering from any injustices or wrongs. Unfortunately, so many will not forgive and reconcile. The hatred has been amped up for the past 10 years or so and now it is even encouraged. Only way out of this is the forgive, repent and move on.

BTW, most people's issue is not to repent to other people for a wrong they didn't commit but to God first whom they have sinned against. Guilt is good when you have done wrong but false guilt when there is no wrong you have committed is evil.

[R2Dawg]

And how would he feel about abortion? Same-sex marriage? Transgender?
Might try studying that Bible a little more before you spout this type of ignorance. He would be labeled none of the above I imagine. Don't mistake loving all of mankind for being tolerant and accepting all beliefs and ways of life.

Don't forget that God works through governments, good and bad alike, to accomplish his will. Wars, slavery, exile, and the like.

Truth. Loving your neighbor is telling him the truth not telling him a lie that will condemn him forever. If you saw someone driving towards a cliff where the bridge was out would it be hateful or loving to tell him the bridge is out when he is sure the bridge is in and may accuse you of being unloving.

[dawgoneyall]

So peacefully kneeling at a football game is "disrespectful" to the flag of the United States of America

Yes

[Saltydog]

I understand both sides of the flag issue and it's really not a big deal to me but where does this insanity end? It won't stop until all vestiges of the old south are completely gone. What's next, getting rid of antebellum homes? Let's get rid of Lee Hall. Let's get rid of KFC. Let's burn Oxford to the ground. Oh wait, that one I'm good with.

[R2Dawg]

I understand both sides of the flag issue and it's really not a big deal to me but where does this insanity end? It won't stop until all vestiges of the old south are completely gone. What's next, getting rid of antebellum homes? Let's get rid of Lee Hall. Let's get rid of KFC. Let's burn Oxford to the ground. Oh wait, that one I'm good with.

You are so right. They have torn down USGrant statues now because someone heard a rumor that he had a slave once. Our library will be next target. I am trusting Keenum will not allow MSU campus to get out of control for MSU's sake and I have family on campus.

[PMDawg]

I apologize if this gets political but I would ask that we control the debating here and keep it mature.

Where do you draw the line? At what point in all this craziness will you decide to quit sports? Kneeling? Paid college players? Mascots changed? Athletes making demands. At some point it will effect revenue at the pro level. I have my feelings but it sucks every way we look at from a tradition standpoint. I want the best for everyone involved and that means there is give and take but at some point I will quit pro sports if it goes to far.

Oh it's already crossed for me. I'm out. Pros will be easy. College is gonna hurt. If CFB doesn't have a season this year, there will be millions who never tune in again, I would wager. I plan to be in that number either way. My money is staying with me from now on.

[Commercecomet24]

You are so right. They have torn down USGrant statues now because someone heard a rumor that he had a slave once. Our library will be next target. I am trusting Keenum will not allow MSU campus to get out of control for MSU's sake and I have family on campus.

Last night in Portland they pulled down a statue of George Washington and burned a flag on it. I've heard "f*** America", f*** the USA, etc. it's pathetic and sad.

[Quaoarsking]

Tearing down a statue of Grant is particularly stupid. He was the only 19th century president who tried to enforce equal rights for black citizens. Presidents who came after him sold them out and African-Americans didn't get back to the point of equality Grant advocated until the LBJ administration, at least in the South.

He briefly owned a slave as a young man after inheriting it, but he felt too bad about it and freed him for $0 when he could've sold him. He opposed the Mexican War because he feared it would expand slavery, and I think we all know how competent he was compared to other Union generals.

If there was a 19th century woke president, it was Grant, and there's not a close second.

[TUSK]

African-Americans didn't get back to the point of equality Grant advocated until the LBJ administration...

this shit is wonderfully amusing.....

[Uncivilengineer]

Oh it's already crossed for me. I'm out. Pros will be easy. College is gonna hurt. If CFB doesn't have a season this year, there will be millions who never tune in again, I would wager. I plan to be in that number either way. My money is staying with me from now on.

I am right there with you. I pretty much quit the Pros a couple of years ago. Drew Brees' spineless act sealed the deal for me.

The start of College football this season will be a sh1t-show unlike this country has ever seen. That is if they even play it with the Rona still out there.
I will not support professional athletes or student athletes that hate me. The reaction to the Leach tweet by the athletes, media and our athletic director has me right on the edge. Once my University decides to kneel or kiss the ass of the terrorist organization known as Black Lives Matter, I will be done. And they will do it, no way they won't. The entire country has lost its damn mind and I won't support a damn bit of it.

[R2Dawg]

I am right there with you. I pretty much quit the Pros a couple of years ago. Drew Brees' spineless act sealed the deal for me.

The start of College football this season will be a sh1t-show unlike this country has ever seen. That is if they even play it with the Rona still out there.
I will not support professional athletes or student athletes that hate me. The reaction to the Leach tweet by the athletes, media and our athletic director has me right on the edge. Once my University decides to kneel or kiss the ass of the terrorist organization known as Black Lives Matter, I will be done. And they will do it, no way they won't. The entire country has lost its damn mind and I won't support a damn bit of it.

A lot and I mean a lot of people feel the same way, they are just not rioting in the streets about it.

[Quaoarsking]

I am right there with you. I pretty much quit the Pros a couple of years ago. Drew Brees' spineless act sealed the deal for me.

The start of College football this season will be a sh1t-show unlike this country has ever seen. That is if they even play it with the Rona still out there.
I will not support professional athletes or student athletes that hate me. The reaction to the Leach tweet by the athletes, media and our athletic director has me right on the edge. Once my University decides to kneel or kiss the ass of the terrorist organization known as Black Lives Matter, I will be done. And they will do it, no way they won't. The entire country has lost its damn mind and I won't support a damn bit of it.

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but:

1269389854061846529

[Uncivilengineer]

Good to know. Bye MSU. It was good following you. Don't ever call me again and ask for a damn dime.

[Quaoarsking]

https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/500/fbd/55cd3129bc8bf5d0730c86f83dd81a13e6-12-bye-felicia.rhorizontal.w700.jpg

[Turfdawg67]

Good to know. Bye MSU. It was good following you. Don't ever call me again and ask for a damn dime.

Don't let the 17ing door hit you on the way out.

[BeardoMSU]

Good to know. Bye MSU. It was good following you. Don't ever call me again and ask for a damn dime.

What a loss...I'm sure there were some who said the same thing when the men's basketball team defied the Guvna's orders to not play black athletes....

https://media.giphy.com/media/T7j5439wv9iq4/giphy.gif

Such a tragic loss to the fanbase*

[R2Dawg]

What a loss...I'm sure there were some who said the same thing when the men's basketball team defied the Guvna's orders to not play black athletes....

https://media.giphy.com/media/T7j5439wv9iq4/giphy.gif

Such a tragic loss to the fanbase*

Wow, apples and oranges comparison. I am sure there are folks who support the surface level BLM stuff but it is way more than that. There are even a few groups starting because of what BLM stands for. Labor for Black Lives is One.

BLM is a racist, evil organization. Look at their website and what they believe in. People can believe and say what they want but not the kind of world view that I want to hang out with or will do our society any good.

[R2Dawg]

Good to know. Bye MSU. It was good following you. Don't ever call me again and ask for a damn dime.

I think a lot of these people are only supporting because of an obvious injustice - Floyd but don't really know what all BLM stands for. Don't give up yet. While I agree with the disappointment, this is just another PR stunt by those in leadership. Political posturing, I've heard what Keenum and company believe and it ain't what BLM says. Maybe they prove me wrong later?

[Dawgface]

What a loss...I'm sure there were some who said the same thing when the men's basketball team defied the Guvna's orders to not play black athletes....

https://media.giphy.com/media/T7j5439wv9iq4/giphy.gif

Such a tragic loss to the fanbase*
There will be many more like him if we do stupid shit on tv during a football game. And I can see it happening at halftime or at the start of a game. Will play it by ear before I say what I will do. Like many I'm already done with the NFL.

[DownwardDawg]

There will be many more like him if we do stupid shit on tv during a football game. And I can see it happening at halftime or at the start of a game. Will play it by ear before I say what I will do. Like many I'm already done with the NFL.

I agree. And we don't need to celebrate losing ANY fans. We need all the monetary support we can get. Every fan that stops putting money into MSU hurts.

[bulldawg28]

I agree. And we don't need to celebrate losing ANY fans. We need all the monetary support we can get. Every fan that stops putting money into MSU hurts.

More fans will replace them and MSU will be fine. We're not a dying breed.

[PMDawg]

What a loss...I'm sure there were some who said the same thing when the men's basketball team defied the Guvna's orders to not play black athletes....

https://media.giphy.com/media/T7j5439wv9iq4/giphy.gif

Such a tragic loss to the fanbase*

My main reason for giving it up is that it's become nothing more than a political cesspool, like this thread, like this board, and like you. If I wanted to make myself miserable by hanging around idiots who talk politics all day every day, then I'd surround myself by morons like you IRL.

[BeardoMSU]

My main reason for giving it up is that it's become nothing more than a political cesspool, like this thread, like this board, and like you. If I wanted to make myself miserable by hanging around idiots who talk politics all day every day, then I'd surround myself by morons like you IRL.

Ok, well next time tell me what you really think, lol.

I don't "talk politics all day every day", in fact, I hate talking politics, actually.....but these are the threads that are going on right now (there is a void of sports in the world, if you've been paying attention), so I'm giving my opinions, as are others. What a bunch of ****in' morons, AMIRIGHT?*

Pretty sure you're the first poster to refer to others as an "idiot", "cesspool", or "moron" this entire thread, by the way. But yeah, you seem like a swell human being otherwise; it's just these threads that are bringing this out of you, lol.

[BeardoMSU]

I agree. And we don't need to celebrate losing ANY fans. We need all the monetary support we can get. Every fan that stops putting money into MSU hurts.

Look, I don't want to lose any fans. And I agree on the money part; it can get tough. But as with many things throughout history, it's adapt or die.

[Quaoarsking]

I agree. And we don't need to celebrate losing ANY fans. We need all the monetary support we can get. Every fan that stops putting money into MSU hurts.

I'd prefer to keep every fan we can, and add more. But supporting racial equality should be a higher priority than pandering to our few fans who don't, and I'm willing to accept the financial consequences of that.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Tear down those pyramids in Egypt that the slaves built.

Actually, most were built by paid laborers

[Lord McBuckethead]

Exactly 'where' and 'when' do we stand in 'honor' of the Mississippi State flag at NFL games? And, 'what' does the band play?

When you have to walk into a courthouse with a symbol of hate hanging above the entry, let me know how you feel. Might as well be a swastika.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Don't misconstrue your conservative values with Christian values. If Christ came back today he'd be labeled a radical libtard for him loving all people and not giving a shit about your money, flags and statues.

That's true. Christians, voting for grab him by the ***** dude that cheated on every wife has ever had and don't pay his debts? Nope, but conservatives voted for him. Conservative and Christian values are not even in the same stratosphere.

I mean you can be Christian and conservative. You can be Christian and liberal. Comservatives and Christians are not linked.

[KentuckyDawg13]

I quit watching pro sports years ago. Now looks like college sports too because of this pandemic. Bigger issues in life than sports.

[fader2103]

I don't label Jesus as a conservative or a liberal. I'm willing to say with 100% certainty that he isn't political at all.

[SheltonChoked]

Good to know. Bye MSU. It was good following you. Don't ever call me again and ask for a damn dime.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/pB4qmEYmj3LEY/200.gif

[Extendedcab]

You do know God doesn't honor the US flag right? All flags are equal to him and that's colored cloth.

Ahh, not quite! Please read the Bible and you will find many instances of God favoring a particular nation for his purpose.

Examples:

- Israel - becoming a nation
- Palestinians (until Israel grew in number to defeat them and drive them out of Israel)
- Egypt - Until Israel left with Moses in the wilderness (God showed his power through Pharaoh)
- Egypt - When Joseph (Israelis slave now 2nd in command of Egypt) saved the known world when famine hit (Alll nations cam to Egypt for food)
- Israel during the times of Judges - righteous judges defeated their enemies, evil judges caused injury to Israel
- Israel - after it split in half after King Solomon died -
0 When they had a righteous ruler they prospered and defeated their enemies
0 When they had an evil ruler they suffered and their enemies defeated them
- Babylonians - when they defeated Israel for forgetting God and serving other gods (idols)

And even the US:
- The US - up until this time (roller coaster since the 1960s) where we have forgotten Him and disobeyed His will and His commands (we will see what our future holds)

[SheltonChoked]

Tearing down a statue of Grant is particularly stupid. He was the only 19th century president who tried to enforce equal rights for black citizens. Presidents who came after him sold them out and African-Americans didn't get back to the point of equality Grant advocated until the LBJ administration, at least in the South.

He briefly owned a slave as a young man after inheriting it, but he felt too bad about it and freed him for $0 when he could've sold him. He opposed the Mexican War because he feared it would expand slavery, and I think we all know how competent he was compared to other Union generals.

If there was a 19th century woke president, it was Grant, and there's not a close second.


Not just "Advocated" passed as basically the same Civil rights laws in 1875 as was passed in 1964, expect Grant wanted more added to the 1875 law than was passed.

It's the same ignorance of history you see on this thread, just the other side. It's like the history books left out the civil war and reconstruction to cover up what happened....

[Johnson85]

I'd prefer to keep every fan we can, and add more. But supporting racial equality should be a higher priority than pandering to our few fans who don't, and I'm willing to accept the financial consequences of that.

Nobody has a problem with supporting racial equality. THey have a problem with the black lives matter organization. I don't have a problem with the university saying black lives matter or saying black lives matter, but I get that some people view saying that as supporting an organization with beliefs and goals that they either disagree with or find repugnant.

It's similar to states' rights. States' rights are very important (and possibly more important now than ever, as if we allowed for a little federalism, we might not have such poisonous national politics b/c state politics would be more important), but it's a phrase that has been co-opted/tainted by people wanting to use it as political cover for heinous policies. Same thing with black lives matter; it's an innocuous statement that basically everybody agrees with, but it's been co-opted/tainted by some people that want to use it to draw support for heinous policies.

[Commercecomet24]

Nobody has a problem with supporting racial equality. THey have a problem with the black lives matter organization. I don't have a problem with the university saying black lives matter or saying black lives matter, but I get that some people view saying that as supporting an organization with beliefs and goals that they either disagree with or find repugnant.

It's similar to states' rights. States' rights are very important (and possibly more important now than ever, as if we allowed for a little federalism, we might not have such poisonous national politics b/c state politics would be more important), but it's a phrase that has been co-opted/tainted by people wanting to use it as political cover for heinous policies. Same thing with black lives matter; it's an innocuous statement that basically everybody agrees with, but it's been co-opted/tainted by some people that want to use it to draw support for heinous policies.

Thank you for saying this. You explained this very well and I think that's where the divide is coming over all this. This is exactly how i feel. I 100% support that black lives matter, I do not support the organization BLM and their goals and agenda.

[Turfdawg67]

Ahh, not quite! Please read the Bible and you will find many instances of God favoring a particular nation for his purpose.

Examples:

- Israel - becoming a nation
- Palestinians (until Israel grew in number to defeat them and drive them out of Israel)
- Egypt - Until Israel left with Moses in the wilderness (God showed his power through Pharaoh)
- Egypt - When Joseph (Israelis slave now 2nd in command of Egypt) saved the known world when famine hit (Alll nations cam to Egypt for food)
- Israel during the times of Judges - righteous judges defeated their enemies, evil judges caused injury to Israel
- Israel - after it split in half after King Solomon died -
0 When they had a righteous ruler they prospered and defeated their enemies
0 When they had an evil ruler they suffered and their enemies defeated them
- Babylonians - when they defeated Israel for forgetting God and serving other gods (idols)

And even the US:
- The US - up until this time (roller coaster since the 1960s) where we have forgotten Him and disobeyed His will and His commands (we will see what our future holds)

Like hate and bigotry? Or can you find some passage that justifies this too?

[Lord McBuckethead]

Ahh, not quite! Please read the Bible and you will find many instances of God favoring a particular nation for his purpose.

Examples:

- Israel - becoming a nation
- Palestinians (until Israel grew in number to defeat them and drive them out of Israel)
- Egypt - Until Israel left with Moses in the wilderness (God showed his power through Pharaoh)
- Egypt - When Joseph (Israelis slave now 2nd in command of Egypt) saved the known world when famine hit (Alll nations cam to Egypt for food)
- Israel during the times of Judges - righteous judges defeated their enemies, evil judges caused injury to Israel
- Israel - after it split in half after King Solomon died -
0 When they had a righteous ruler they prospered and defeated their enemies
0 When they had an evil ruler they suffered and their enemies defeated them
- Babylonians - when they defeated Israel for forgetting God and serving other gods (idols)

And even the US:
- The US - up until this time (roller coaster since the 1960s) where we have forgotten Him and disobeyed His will and His commands (we will see what our future holds)

Nice bedtime stories though.

[Lord McBuckethead]

BLM is not the devil. They are regular folks fighting for something we have all had since the moment we were born. The real shame, in my opinion, is that more people are not rallying with them. The evil viewpoint is a very clever distraction set by people that do not like equality. Theyblike the status quo. They undermine the reason for the movement in small ways. That is how you get a giant group of people to slowly support terrible things.

For instance, during the slave trade, warlords in Africa made a killing selling off the males of rival tribes. "Christians" who were doing the buying and selling, put out massive campaigns about how black people were savages and not equal to real humans. Those ideas have persisted even today. Hell there are doctors that still claim major differences between whites and blacks as of 30 years ago. Christians jumped through hoops to justify what they were doing, for money. Just like the majority of these posts. We should be outraged anytime someone is not treated equally. White, black, Trans, Gay, etc.

BLM is not perfect, but they are trying to fight systems in their way, that have been in their way since June 19, 1865. As the older people die out, change is coming. Some people cannot help they way they feel about it. Some people cannot see truth that flies in the face of their entire life's experience. Segregation was 50 years ago, yet we still fight it today. Change is going to take leadership, partnership, and multiple generations to get there.

First and foremost, treat everyone as you would want to be treated, and you will be judged on how you treat the least of these.

I support kneeling during the anthem, I support equality under the law, I support the 2nd amendment, I support the 1st amendment. All of those things are expected of me as a citizen.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Also, the native americans lived for thousands of years without major conflict. They never heard of Jesus or of our God. Please, lets keep this to modern day conflicts starting atleast with the 1600s.

[Johnson85]

Also, the native americans lived for thousands of years without major conflict. They never heard of Jesus or of our God. Please, lets keep this to modern day conflicts starting atleast with the 1600s.

I can't tell if this is supposed to be sarcastic.

[Johnson85]

BLM is not the devil. They are regular folks fighting for something we have all had since the moment we were born. The real shame, in my opinion, is that more people are not rallying with them. The evil viewpoint is a very clever distraction set by people that do not like equality. Theyblike the status quo. They undermine the reason for the movement in small ways. That is how you get a giant group of people to slowly support terrible things.

For instance, during the slave trade, warlords in Africa made a killing selling off the males of rival tribes. "Christians" who were doing the buying and selling, put out massive campaigns about how black people were savages and not equal to real humans. Those ideas have persisted even today. Hell there are doctors that still claim major differences between whites and blacks as of 30 years ago. Christians jumped through hoops to justify what they were doing, for money. Just like the majority of these posts. We should be outraged anytime someone is not treated equally. White, black, Trans, Gay, etc.

BLM is not perfect, but they are trying to fight systems in their way, that have been in their way since June 19, 1865. As the older people die out, change is coming. Some people cannot help they way they feel about it. Some people cannot see truth that flies in the face of their entire life's experience. Segregation was 50 years ago, yet we still fight it today. Change is going to take leadership, partnership, and multiple generations to get there.

First and foremost, treat everyone as you would want to be treated, and you will be judged on how you treat the least of these.

I support kneeling during the anthem, I support equality under the law, I support the 2nd amendment, I support the 1st amendment. All of those things are expected of me as a citizen.
The problem is that so many people are reliant on the internet and it's so easy to create false narratives. If you just google around, it certainly looks like BLM has a mixture of good, benign, and destructive policy aims. It looks like BLM has co founders, https://blacklivesmatter.com/our-co-founders/, and it looks like those cofounders have some pretty objectionable views. https://disrn.com/news/video-surfaces-of-black-lives-matter-founder-saying-were-trained-marxists
https://thebl.com/us-news/black-lives-matter-founder-admits-groups-creators-are-trained-marxists.html

Just hard to convince people that that's all a false flag operation and false info planted on the internet.

[Hot Rock]

Good to know. Bye MSU. It was good following you. Don't ever call me again and ask for a damn dime.

If you ever wondered why a black athlete would play for and represent a place like Ole Miss with it's references to the Confederacy, it's right here in this guys post.

State has just as many racist assholes as Ole Miss and they know it.

[tcdog70]

Tearing down a statue of Grant is particularly stupid. He was the only 19th century president who tried to enforce equal rights for black citizens. Presidents who came after him sold them out and African-Americans didn't get back to the point of equality Grant advocated until the LBJ administration, at least in the South.

He briefly owned a slave as a young man after inheriting it, but he felt too bad about it and freed him for $0 when he could've sold him. He opposed the Mexican War because he feared it would expand slavery, and I think we all know how competent he was compared to other Union generals.

If there was a 19th century woke president, it was Grant, and there's not a close second.

Gran't wife kept her Slaves

[Lord McBuckethead]

The problem is that so many people are reliant on the internet and it's so easy to create false narratives. If you just google around, it certainly looks like BLM has a mixture of good, benign, and destructive policy aims. It looks like BLM has co founders, https://blacklivesmatter.com/our-co-founders/, and it looks like those cofounders have some pretty objectionable views. https://disrn.com/news/video-surfaces-of-black-lives-matter-founder-saying-were-trained-marxists
https://thebl.com/us-news/black-lives-matter-founder-admits-groups-creators-are-trained-marxists.html

Just hard to convince people that that's all a false flag operation and false info planted on the internet.

Yeah, i can see that. Unfortunately BLM is much bigger than the founders in today's political scene. It's like the difference between 2004 republican party and the now "post" Tea Party Republican party. They are nothing alike.
To get political here, the most dangerous precendent that has been established during the past 12 years is the Merrick Garland vote. The Senate refused to do their duty. Now, when the democrats regain the Senate, no more conservative judges for Republican presidents and vice versa. That loop hole 17ed a bunch of voters that elected Obama, and will come back into play again in the future. Bet on that.

[Lord McBuckethead]

I can't tell if this is supposed to be sarcastic.

Major conflict as in..... their civilization continued to exist outside the realm of God. That is until we came here and introduced them to our friend Influenza.

[Lord McBuckethead]

If you ever wondered why a black athlete would play for and represent a place like Ole Miss with it's references to the Confederacy, it's right here in this guys post.

State has just as many racist assholes as Ole Miss and they know it.

I actually have been shocked at the number of MSU fans that are borderline racist or at the least, bigots. Granted that 10 racist on a message board can post so many times it feels like 100. Either way, come on guys....lets agree to stop being racist and lets also agree that everything BLM stands for and rallies against, is not a direct reflection on you as a white person. The only negative reflection you should see is if you choose not to stand with your fellow citizen.

[msbulldog]

Ahh, not quite! Please read the Bible and you will find many instances of God favoring a particular nation for his purpose.

Examples:

- Israel - becoming a nation
- Palestinians (until Israel grew in number to defeat them and drive them out of Israel)
- Egypt - Until Israel left with Moses in the wilderness (God showed his power through Pharaoh)
- Egypt - When Joseph (Israelis slave now 2nd in command of Egypt) saved the known world when famine hit (Alll nations cam to Egypt for food)
- Israel during the times of Judges - righteous judges defeated their enemies, evil judges caused injury to Israel
- Israel - after it split in half after King Solomon died -
0 When they had a righteous ruler they prospered and defeated their enemies
0 When they had an evil ruler they suffered and their enemies defeated them
- Babylonians - when they defeated Israel for forgetting God and serving other gods (idols)

And even the US:
- The US - up until this time (roller coaster since the 1960s) where we have forgotten Him and disobeyed His will and His commands (we will see what our future holds)

Amen! +1

[Maroonthirteen]

If you ever wondered why a black athlete would play for and represent a place like Ole Miss with it's references to the Confederacy, it's right here in this guys post.

State has just as many racist assholes as Ole Miss and they know it.

So OM has black athletes because State has racist? Hahahahaha. Good grief.

Or maybe black people attend Ole Miss because they can think for themselves.

Real reasons by real people that I have been given......"Their alumni were supportive of me in high school." "I like the campus better." "Ole Miss has the major I wanted to study."

[msbulldog]

Like hate and bigotry? Or can you find some passage that justifies this too?

Love thy neighbor as you love yourself.

[SheltonChoked]

Ahh, not quite! Please read the Bible and you will find many instances of God favoring a particular nation for his purpose.

0 When they had a righteous ruler they prospered and defeated their enemies
0 When they had an evil ruler they suffered and their enemies defeated them


We are not God's Chosen Nation. Never have been.

And that's all Old Testament. Who was "God's chosen nation" between 1030 BC until, I assume, 312 AD when Constantine became the first Christian Emperor?
And who was it again from 476 AD when Rome fell until 1776?

Did he stop having one? Or did he choose a nation that literally did not know the Judaeo-Christian God at all?

[msbulldog]

If you ever wondered why a black athlete would play for and represent a place like Ole Miss with it's references to the Confederacy, it's right here in this guys post.

State has just as many racist assholes as Ole Miss and they know it.

I guess that's why MSU has the highest % of blacks in the student body in the SEC.

[msbulldog]

We are not God's Chosen Nation. Never have been.

And that's all Old Testament. Who was "God's chosen nation" between 1030 BC until, I assume, 312 AD when Constantine became the first Christian Emperor?
And who was it again from 476 AD when Rome fell until 1776?

Did he stop having one? Or did he choose a nation that literally did not know the Judaeo-Christian God at all?

Israel has been God's chosen nation and the Jewish people have been God's chosen people since the Abrahamic covenant and will always be. God does not change.

[Political Hack]

So peacefully kneeling at a football game is "disrespectful" to the flag of the United States of America.....BUT, continuing to honor the flag of the rebellion that attempted to break up that same United States of America over the right to own other human beings as property, is somehow....not?

I typically find a lot of irony in the positions of both political parties, but I hadn't considered how ridiculous these two positions are in concert until reading your post. Pretty funny.

[Hot Rock]

I guess that's why MSU has the highest % of blacks in the student body in the SEC.

This is true, but as long as there are Mississippi State grads and fans, that love themselves some Rebel flags & Confederate statues, there will be some people that will not see any difference in the two institutions.

I do believe there is a huge difference in the two places myself but that's my perception. I can't perceive something for someone else.

All it takes is one to influence a person's opinion of a place. We all know it's way more than one. We have seen dozens on this board advocating to keep the flag/statues or hating on Kapernick among other things.

Hell, some even quit watching the NFL because a dude took a knee to bring attention to a real problem. Nothing was violent about that or even disrespectful, Trump waving his arms around and dancing during the anthem, that was disrespectful and yet they quit watching a sport and still love themselves some Trump. Go figure

Intelligent people can change their minds when presented new evidence. The evidence is in on so many subjects and yet many refuse to see. For the life of me, I don't understand why anyone would want to honor or celebrate anything confederate unless they are white supremacist or just ignorant of the truth of the purpose the Confederacy.

[Rex54]

Israel has been God's chosen nation and the Jewish people have been God's chosen people since the Abrahamic covenant and will always be. God does not change.
Christians are God's Chosen People. Good grief.

[SheltonChoked]

Israel has been God's chosen nation and the Jewish people have been God's chosen people since the Abrahamic covenant and will always be. God does not change.

That's not what ExtendedCab said. He said it was Egypt, and Palestine, and Babylon, and the USA....

It's not my argument, He says God removes his favor. I'm wondering when that happened in the Bible, and what happened post-Babylon...

[Extendedcab]

We are not God's Chosen Nation. Never have been.

And that's all Old Testament. Who was "God's chosen nation" between 1030 BC until, I assume, 312 AD when Constantine became the first Christian Emperor?
And who was it again from 476 AD when Rome fell until 1776?

Did he stop having one? Or did he choose a nation that literally did not know the Judaeo-Christian God at all?

Sorry for the length of this response.

I never said the US was God's chosen nation, that honor belongs to Israel, the nation the Messiah (Jesus) came from. What I was sayin in so many words, I will be more direct here, is that God DOES BLESS the nation that repents of their sins, turns to Him and lives by His word. The examples I gave in my previous post clearly showed that God builds up nations (favor, honor, etc.) and He tears them down (judgement) depending on His purpose.

Your original response to my post was that God does not honor the US flag (which I take to mean that God does not or has not honored or favored the US or any other nation for that matter, that He is neutral) is absolutely wrong. Again, depending on God's will, He builds up nations (aka blesses them, prospers them, multiplies them, honors them, etc.). Now He may build up a nation (evil one), so they can be brought down, to show His power to other nations - Egypt, Rome, etc which he used to discipline other nations - Israel in particular. But he also builds up nations that honor Him and those that do their best to acknowledge Him and live by His word.

The US, read the original documents of this country and the letters of our founding fathers for reference (not that they were perfect, none are), was founded on Christian principles, our laws are based on Judeo-Christian principles (God's word) and our leaders (presidents, governors, etc.) and citizens at least feared God (gave Him reverence or at least due consideration), for the most part. We have been blessed above all other nations: we are the world military leader, we are a huge exporter of goods, we are a huge importer of goods, we evangelize the world, we have been until the past few years (downturn started in the 1960s) the most prosperous nation in the history of the world. But yet we are only (about) 1/20th or 5% of the worlds population. Wow, how does 5% of the world's population have so much impact on the rest of the world? God's word says that it is He that gives us power to obtain wealth and that if a nation will repent of their sins, turn from their evil ways and turn to God, He will heal their land! The apostle Paul even explained that the time order of God’s plan was not a sign of injustice or favoritism. “There will be trouble and calamity for everyone who keeps on sinning—for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. But there will be glory and honor and peace from God for all who do good—for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism” (Romans 2:9-11, New Living Translation).

God has definitely blessed the US (the flag if you will) and showered us with favor, grace and blessings, honor and prosperity but for how much longer is yet to be seen. It all depends on us as a people. Since the 1960's I do believe that the US is continually slipping in world status due to our moral decline. I also think we are today, at a tipping point, in wether we adhere to our original purpose or Christian ideals, or wether we succumb to the "worlds" no holes barred moral depravity. Scripture clearly states that is is a shame to even mention the things evil people do in secret but yet we are now expected to celebrate their depravity - our airwaves, internet, video and audio, is full of this crap. Are we next to be disciplined by God? I hope not, but I am very concerned for the future of the US.

[SheltonChoked]

Sorry for the length of this response.

I never said the US was God's chosen nation, that honor belongs to Israel, the nation the Messiah (Jesus) came from. What I was sayin in so many words, I will be more direct here, is that God DOES BLESS the nation that repents of their sins, turns to Him and lives by His word. The examples I gave in my previous post clearly showed that God builds up nations (favor, honor, etc.) and He tears them down (judgement) depending on His purpose.

Your original response to my post was that God does not honor the US flag (which I take to mean that God does not or has not honored or favored the US or any other nation for that matter, that He is neutral) is absolutely wrong. Again, depending on God's will, He builds up nations (aka blesses them, prospers them, multiplies them, honors them, etc.). Now He may build up a nation (evil one), so they can be brought down, to show His power to other nations - Egypt, Rome, etc which he used to discipline other nations - Israel in particular. But he also builds up nations that honor Him and those that do their best to acknowledge Him and live by His word.

The US, read the original documents of this country and the letters of our founding fathers for reference (not that they were perfect, none are), was founded on Christian principles, our laws are based on Judeo-Christian principles (God's word) and our leaders (presidents, governors, etc.) and citizens at least feared God (gave Him reverence or at least due consideration), for the most part. We have been blessed above all other nations: we are the world military leader, we are a huge exporter of goods, we are a huge importer of goods, we evangelize the world, we have been until the past few years (downturn started in the 1960s) the most prosperous nation in the history of the world. But yet we are only (about) 1/20th or 5% of the worlds population. Wow, how does 5% of the world's population have so much impact on the rest of the world? God's word says that it is He that gives us power to obtain wealth and that if a nation will repent of their sins, turn from their evil ways and turn to God, He will heal their land! The apostle Paul even explained that the time order of God?s plan was not a sign of injustice or favoritism. ?There will be trouble and calamity for everyone who keeps on sinning?for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. But there will be glory and honor and peace from God for all who do good?for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism? (Romans 2:9-11, New Living Translation).

God has definitely blessed the US (the flag if you will) and showered us with favor, grace and blessings, honor and prosperity but for how much longer is yet to be seen. It all depends on us as a people. Since the 1960's I do believe that the US is continually slipping in world status due to our moral decline. I also think we are today, at a tipping point, in wether we adhere to our original purpose or Christian ideals, or wether we succumb to the "worlds" no holes barred moral depravity. Scripture clearly states that is is a shame to even mention the things evil people do in secret but yet we are now expected to celebrate their depravity - our airwaves, internet, video and audio, is full of this crap. Are we next to be disciplined by God? I hope not, but I am very concerned for the future of the US.

I did not say that God does not honor the flag. I said we kneel at Church, and it's not a disrespectful act. Someone else said God doesn't care about flags (which I agree with, Matthew 22:21)

You went on a rant about how God chooses nations. There is no evidence that any Nations other than the Jews/Nation of Israel are what God cares about.

God and Jesus care about people. Not nations, or flags, or football teams... People. All are equal at the throne of God. Why not fight for that here?

And the "prosperity Gospel" is bullshit to take your money.

Doesn't matter what the "founding fathers" like Thomas Paine, Ethan Allen, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, George Washington, Ben Franklin, or James Monroe thought about God (but you should look up what they thought, you'd learn something) as they were far less religious than you'd be comfortable with.

The US has vast resources, and post 1945 when we became a world power, was the only 1st or 2nd world nation not devastated by years of Total War and owing that untouched nation Billions of dollars in war material. It took until the 1960's for the rest of the world to catch up to our lead. Which we squandered.

But to answer it another way, was China God's blessed country from 310 AD to 1300. Were the Ottomans his Blessed country from 1300 to 1500? They were the world power in the same way the US is today.... Was God blessing them?

[Extendedcab]

I did not say that God does not honor the flag. I said we kneel at Church, and it's not a disrespectful act. Someone else said God doesn't care about flags (which I agree with, Matthew 22:21)

You went on a rant about how God chooses nations. There is no evidence that any Nations other than the Jews/Nation of Israel are what God cares about.

God and Jesus care about people. Not nations, or flags, or football teams... People. All are equal at the throne of God. Why not fight for that here?

And the "prosperity Gospel" is bullshit to take your money.

Doesn't matter what the "founding fathers" like Thomas Paine, Ethan Allen, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, George Washington, Ben Franklin, or James Monroe thought about God (but you should look up what they thought, you'd learn something) as they were far less religious than you'd be comfortable with.

The US has vast resources, and post 1945 when we became a world power, was the only 1st or 2nd world nation not devastated by years of Total War and owing that untouched nation Billions of dollars in war material. It took until the 1960's for the rest of the world to catch up to our lead. Which we squandered.

But to answer it another way, was China God's blessed country from 310 AD to 1300. Were the Ottomans his Blessed country from 1300 to 1500? They were the world power in the same way the US is today.... Was God blessing them?


I never said anything about football teams (don't change the subject or sidestep the issue), just people and nations. You have obviously never read the book of Judges or 1 Kings and 2 Kings as there a MANY examples, if you have ears to hear and eyes that see, that GOD does indeed bless people and nations that follow him. This is not a prosperity Gospel fairytale, it is fact. But what you are confusing is prosperity to be ONLY MONEY meaning that you will become super rich. Biblical prosperity is simple. Biblical prosperity means being blessed by God. What does that mean? It means we will have what we need in this life, notice I did not say all that we want, but that we will have good success in our efforts, we will be without lack (essentials for life), he will give us favor, knowledge and understanding. Scripture also says "I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging for bread." Seed does not apply to just Israel, it also applies to Christians as we also enjoy the blessings of Abraham (see Galatians 3).

I have read what the founding fathers think but I also have seen their beliefs in actions. You need to go to wallbuilders dot com and read the book called Original Intent. I bet you didn't know that the United States Capitol regularly served as a church building; a practice that began even before Congress officially moved into the building and it lasted until well after the Civil War. Now would an atheists or anti Christian group create that practice or endorse it? I think not!

Also look at how the countries the US defeated during WWI and WWII were rebuilt. It was with US help and assistance. A lack of war is also a blessing, to have peace on every side, so Yes the US was/is blessed! But like I said in my previous post, in the 1960s the US started its slow decline in the world and it continues today - although at a faster rate.

So has God blessed China, yes, but for what purpose only time will tell. From reading the book of Revelation, I think China will be one of the nations that contributes to an army of 200 million soldiers that will attack Israel during the great tribulation. God has in the past blessed nations, evil as they may be, to increase in power and strength to discipline a godly nation that is falling away from God. He did that to Israel several times and will again, read the book of Daniel and Revelation (the day of Jacob's trouble - the great tribulation).

And just because God builds up an evil nation does not mean they get a free pass. Even Babylon was judged after God finished using them to punish Israel. China and other Godless countries (Russia) judgement is still to come.

[R2Dawg]

Israel has been God's chosen nation and the Jewish people have been God's chosen people since the Abrahamic covenant and will always be. God does not change.

Truth and God does bless nations who bless Isreal.

[natchez87]

This is true, but as long as there are Mississippi State grads and fans, that love themselves some Rebel flags & Confederate statues, there will be some people that will not see any difference in the two institutions.

I do believe there is a huge difference in the two places myself but that's my perception. I can't perceive something for someone else.

All it takes is one to influence a person's opinion of a place. We all know it's way more than one. We have seen dozens on this board advocating to keep the flag/statues or hating on Kapernick among other things.

Hell, some even quit watching the NFL because a dude took a knee to bring attention to a real problem. Nothing was violent about that or even disrespectful, Trump waving his arms around and dancing during the anthem, that was disrespectful and yet they quit watching a sport and still love themselves some Trump. Go figure

Intelligent people can change their minds when presented new evidence. The evidence is in on so many subjects and yet many refuse to see. For the life of me, I don't understand why anyone would want to honor or celebrate anything confederate unless they are white supremacist or just ignorant of the truth of the purpose the Confederacy.

THIS. 100%. It's sickening the types of things I have read on this site in the past couple weeks. Do people really think racism is all made up and there is no reason to discuss it other than a big media conspiracy? Really??? If you know anything about Mississippi then you know racism is very real... sorry that people asking for it to be put to an end after hundreds of years is interrupting your barbeque pork shoulder and sports watching. People are so selfish... even worse when they try to use Christianity to justify their selfish, backwards, bigoted thinking. It's disgusting. No wonder Mississippi is the laughing stock of the nation. Some people would rather crash and burn than even ATTEMPT to do the right thing.

[TUSK]

Man, do I miss the 60s and 70s when Bammer was winning 3 National Championships per decade!

************************************************** ***

[Rex54]

Truth and God does bless nations who bless Isreal.

The propaganda you evangelicals have been fed since Scofield is unbelievable

[Extendedcab]

The propaganda you evangelicals have been fed since Scofield is unbelievable

I see you have never read the Bible! God speaking to Abraham (the father/patriarch of the nation of Israel) said in Genesis 12:3 - "I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.” And in Numbers 24:9 "The nation is like a mighty lion; When it is sleeping, no one dares wake it.
Whoever blesses Israel will be blessed, And whoever curses Israel will be cursed.”

The old testament was written long before Scofield lived on this earth! The first 5 books of the Bible, the Torah, was written by Moses, the recipient of the original revelation from God on Mount Sinai.

Now who has been fed propaganda!

[Rex54]

Now who has been fed propaganda!

You.

[Extendedcab]

You.

To the left, facts do not apply, they just keep on in their insanity! You are doing a good job! Are you sure you are not Dantheman with new credentials?

[Quaoarsking]

To the left, facts do not apply, they just keep on in their insanity! You are doing a good job! Are you sure you are not Dantheman with new credentials?

Err, Rex54 isn't on "the left," not even close judging by his posts on the other threads.

[TUSK]

Err, Rex54 isn't on "the left," not even close judging by his posts on the other threads.

Fact.... Rex is soooooo not "leftist"... While I may not be as convicted as he is RE: economic ideology, I do agree with him on a bunch of his shit...

[natchez87]

Sorry for the length of this response.

I never said the US was God's chosen nation, that honor belongs to Israel, the nation the Messiah (Jesus) came from. What I was sayin in so many words, I will be more direct here, is that God DOES BLESS the nation that repents of their sins, turns to Him and lives by His word. The examples I gave in my previous post clearly showed that God builds up nations (favor, honor, etc.) and He tears them down (judgement) depending on His purpose.

Your original response to my post was that God does not honor the US flag (which I take to mean that God does not or has not honored or favored the US or any other nation for that matter, that He is neutral) is absolutely wrong. Again, depending on God's will, He builds up nations (aka blesses them, prospers them, multiplies them, honors them, etc.). Now He may build up a nation (evil one), so they can be brought down, to show His power to other nations - Egypt, Rome, etc which he used to discipline other nations - Israel in particular. But he also builds up nations that honor Him and those that do their best to acknowledge Him and live by His word.

The US, read the original documents of this country and the letters of our founding fathers for reference (not that they were perfect, none are), was founded on Christian principles, our laws are based on Judeo-Christian principles (God's word) and our leaders (presidents, governors, etc.) and citizens at least feared God (gave Him reverence or at least due consideration), for the most part. We have been blessed above all other nations: we are the world military leader, we are a huge exporter of goods, we are a huge importer of goods, we evangelize the world, we have been until the past few years (downturn started in the 1960s) the most prosperous nation in the history of the world. But yet we are only (about) 1/20th or 5% of the worlds population. Wow, how does 5% of the world's population have so much impact on the rest of the world? God's word says that it is He that gives us power to obtain wealth and that if a nation will repent of their sins, turn from their evil ways and turn to God, He will heal their land! The apostle Paul even explained that the time order of God?s plan was not a sign of injustice or favoritism. ?There will be trouble and calamity for everyone who keeps on sinning?for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. But there will be glory and honor and peace from God for all who do good?for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism? (Romans 2:9-11, New Living Translation).

God has definitely blessed the US (the flag if you will) and showered us with favor, grace and blessings, honor and prosperity but for how much longer is yet to be seen. It all depends on us as a people. Since the 1960's I do believe that the US is continually slipping in world status due to our moral decline. I also think we are today, at a tipping point, in wether we adhere to our original purpose or Christian ideals, or wether we succumb to the "worlds" no holes barred moral depravity. Scripture clearly states that is is a shame to even mention the things evil people do in secret but yet we are now expected to celebrate their depravity - our airwaves, internet, video and audio, is full of this crap. Are we next to be disciplined by God? I hope not, but I am very concerned for the future of the US.


So it has been since the Civil Rights Movement, when Black people finally gained the minimum amount of respect and rights, that the nation started on a moral decline? ...... America had been on an epic tear of moral depravity since its inception. Treating people worse than dogs, ratifying it into your laws, and making torture and murder part of everyday life doesn't put you on the international list of "Moral Elites". You speak of Egypt and Rome as if America is exempt from God's judgement. Perhaps America has been given hundreds of years to make things right and after failing to do so, it is now time to be judged. God doesn't like anyone desecrating His creation. I'm sure He has been displeased with America since long before the 1960s.

[chef dixon]

To the left, facts do not apply, they just keep on in their insanity! You are doing a good job! Are you sure you are not Dantheman with new credentials?

Man could you dig any deeper into the Bible to justify being against progress and social injustice? And I knew it would only be a matter of time before you made it political and not about faith. You act as if God is just sitting back and playing Risk. I'd encourage you to try and understand humans outside of your bubble on an individual level in as much detail as you have seemed to figure out the macro. It will take some discomfort on your part, but its possible.

[BrunswickDawg]

To the left, facts do not apply, they just keep on in their insanity! You are doing a good job! Are you sure you are not Dantheman with new credentials?

I've been trying to figure out whether you or Rex is the poster formerly known as Coach007. Rex was in the lead, but you just passed him in turn four. Welcome back 007.

[Extendedcab]

Man could you dig any deeper into the Bible to justify being against progress and social injustice? And I knew it would only be a matter of time before you made it political and not about faith. You act as if God is just sitting back and playing Risk. I'd encourage you to try and understand humans outside of your bubble on an individual level in as much detail as you have seemed to figure out the macro. It will take some discomfort on your part, but its possible.

Against progress? What is your definition of progress? I am not against progress if progress is the salvation of all mankind, the blessings of all people and nations, a spiritual revival, Godly laws and Godly rulers. If your definition is moral depravation, then it is not I that is against that "progress" it is God, read His word and find out for yourself. I challenge you to read the Bible front to back like you would any other book, then come back to this forum and provide your opinion of God then! I guarantee it will change, because you will change - from the inside out! I have not said anything in these posts that are even remotely racist, so what exactly are you against in my posts?

And by the way, there is nothing political about showing in God's word that He rises up nations for a specific purposes and He also brings nations down for His purpose also. You misunderstand, God is not playing risk, He is directing the nations as He wills. Nothing surprises Him as His word says, He neither slumbers or sleeps and He declares the end from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10). I also look at things from the macro view - in the end God wins (and the heirs to salvation - those who are born again), He puts ALL enemies under His foot - Satan, death and hell are all defeated.

[Rex54]

Fact.... Rex is soooooo not "leftist"... While I may not be as convicted as he is RE: economic ideology, I do agree with him on a bunch of his shit...
You will come around soon enough on the economics, I have faith! The myth of modern capitalism as a free market is crumbling by the day. Social and cultural control by The Fortune 500 is no better than social and cultural control by the politburo...

[Extendedcab]

So it has been since the Civil Rights Movement, when Black people finally gained the minimum amount of respect and rights, that the nation started on a moral decline? ...... America had been on an epic tear of moral depravity since its inception. Treating people worse than dogs, ratifying it into your laws, and making torture and murder part of everyday life doesn't put you on the international list of "Moral Elites". You speak of Egypt and Rome as if America is exempt from God's judgement. Perhaps America has been given hundreds of years to make things right and after failing to do so, it is now time to be judged. God doesn't like anyone desecrating His creation. I'm sure He has been displeased with America since long before the 1960s.

You misunderstand, when I refer to the 1960s as being the start of the US moral decide I am not talking about the Civil Rights movement but of moral decline due to the US Supreme court legalizing abortions, removing prayer from school, not teaching the bible in school, not reciting the pledge of allegiance to the US, rise in mother out of wedlock, rampant drug use and addiction, same sex unions, and the transgendered movement. The decline of the US has nothing to do with race but the condition of the human soul.

As Timothy 3:105 states: "But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!"

[Cowbell]

So it has been since the Civil Rights Movement, when Black people finally gained the minimum amount of respect and rights, that the nation started on a moral decline? ...... America had been on an epic tear of moral depravity since its inception. Treating people worse than dogs, ratifying it into your laws, and making torture and murder part of everyday life doesn't put you on the international list of "Moral Elites". You speak of Egypt and Rome as if America is exempt from God's judgement. Perhaps America has been given hundreds of years to make things right and after failing to do so, it is now time to be judged. God doesn't like anyone desecrating His creation. I'm sure He has been displeased with America since long before the 1960s.

A lot of truth here

[Johnson85]

Err, Rex54 isn't on "the left," not even close judging by his posts on the other threads.

Rex doesn't really fit on the left right spectrum. As far as I can tell he mixes some "left wing" policies (authoritarianism, populism (although that's sort of becoming a right wing thing now), protectionism (also becoming right wing), anti-israel) with some "right wing" policies (closed borders (or close to it), judeo-christian based laws/rule, US first/nationalism) and maybe isolationism (which I think is pretty equally at home on either side, although with different flavors).

[Turfdawg67]

Sorry for the length of this response.

I never said the US was God's chosen nation, that honor belongs to Israel, the nation the Messiah (Jesus) came from. What I was sayin in so many words, I will be more direct here, is that God DOES BLESS the nation that repents of their sins, turns to Him and lives by His word. The examples I gave in my previous post clearly showed that God builds up nations (favor, honor, etc.) and He tears them down (judgement) depending on His purpose.

Your original response to my post was that God does not honor the US flag (which I take to mean that God does not or has not honored or favored the US or any other nation for that matter, that He is neutral) is absolutely wrong. Again, depending on God's will, He builds up nations (aka blesses them, prospers them, multiplies them, honors them, etc.). Now He may build up a nation (evil one), so they can be brought down, to show His power to other nations - Egypt, Rome, etc which he used to discipline other nations - Israel in particular. But he also builds up nations that honor Him and those that do their best to acknowledge Him and live by His word.

The US, read the original documents of this country and the letters of our founding fathers for reference (not that they were perfect, none are), was founded on Christian principles, our laws are based on Judeo-Christian principles (God's word) and our leaders (presidents, governors, etc.) and citizens at least feared God (gave Him reverence or at least due consideration), for the most part. We have been blessed above all other nations: we are the world military leader, we are a huge exporter of goods, we are a huge importer of goods, we evangelize the world, we have been until the past few years (downturn started in the 1960s) the most prosperous nation in the history of the world. But yet we are only (about) 1/20th or 5% of the worlds population. Wow, how does 5% of the world's population have so much impact on the rest of the world? God's word says that it is He that gives us power to obtain wealth and that if a nation will repent of their sins, turn from their evil ways and turn to God, He will heal their land! The apostle Paul even explained that the time order of God?s plan was not a sign of injustice or favoritism. ?There will be trouble and calamity for everyone who keeps on sinning?for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. But there will be glory and honor and peace from God for all who do good?for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism? (Romans 2:9-11, New Living Translation).

God has definitely blessed the US (the flag if you will) and showered us with favor, grace and blessings, honor and prosperity but for how much longer is yet to be seen. It all depends on us as a people. Since the 1960's I do believe that the US is continually slipping in world status due to our moral decline. I also think we are today, at a tipping point, in wether we adhere to our original purpose or Christian ideals, or wether we succumb to the "worlds" no holes barred moral depravity. Scripture clearly states that is is a shame to even mention the things evil people do in secret but yet we are now expected to celebrate their depravity - our airwaves, internet, video and audio, is full of this crap. Are we next to be disciplined by God? I hope not, but I am very concerned for the future of the US.

So God was giving the US a big ole thumbs up when we were slaughtering 1000s of native Americans or enslaving African men, women and children. And must've been grinning ear to ear with all the lynching prior to 1960. Such high morals and Christian ideals we had as a nation!

[BeardoMSU]

So God was giving the US a big ole thumbs up when we were slaughtering 1000s of native Americans or enslaving African men, women and children. And must've been grinning ear to ear with all the lynching prior to 1960. Such high morals and Christian ideals we had as a nation!

At the time it was called "Providence". Seriously.

That's actually exactly where Providence RI gets its name from.

[Rex54]

So God was giving the US a big ole thumbs up when we were slaughtering 1000s of native Americans or enslaving African men, women and children. And must've been grinning ear to ear with all the lynching prior to 1960. Such high morals and Christian ideals we had as a nation!

Womp Womp

[BeardoMSU]

Womp Womp

Your intellectual contributions to the board have been "Noble" Prize worthy.**

[SheltonChoked]

I never said anything about football teams (don't change the subject or sidestep the issue), just people and nations. You have obviously never read the book of Judges or 1 Kings and 2 Kings as there a MANY examples, if you have ears to hear and eyes that see, that GOD does indeed bless people and nations that follow him. This is not a prosperity Gospel fairytale, it is fact. But what you are confusing is prosperity to be ONLY MONEY meaning that you will become super rich. Biblical prosperity is simple. Biblical prosperity means being blessed by God. What does that mean? It means we will have what we need in this life, notice I did not say all that we want, but that we will have good success in our efforts, we will be without lack (essentials for life), he will give us favor, knowledge and understanding. Scripture also says "I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging for bread." Seed does not apply to just Israel, it also applies to Christians as we also enjoy the blessings of Abraham (see Galatians 3).

I have read what the founding fathers think but I also have seen their beliefs in actions. You need to go to wallbuilders dot com and read the book called Original Intent. I bet you didn't know that the United States Capitol regularly served as a church building; a practice that began even before Congress officially moved into the building and it lasted until well after the Civil War. Now would an atheists or anti Christian group create that practice or endorse it? I think not!

Also look at how the countries the US defeated during WWI and WWII were rebuilt. It was with US help and assistance. A lack of war is also a blessing, to have peace on every side, so Yes the US was/is blessed! But like I said in my previous post, in the 1960s the US started its slow decline in the world and it continues today - although at a faster rate.

So has God blessed China, yes, but for what purpose only time will tell. From reading the book of Revelation, I think China will be one of the nations that contributes to an army of 200 million soldiers that will attack Israel during the great tribulation. God has in the past blessed nations, evil as they may be, to increase in power and strength to discipline a godly nation that is falling away from God. He did that to Israel several times and will again, read the book of Daniel and Revelation (the day of Jacob's trouble - the great tribulation).

And just because God builds up an evil nation does not mean they get a free pass. Even Babylon was judged after God finished using them to punish Israel. China and other Godless countries (Russia) judgement is still to come.

I'm not side stepping the issue, I'm telling you God care about the flag and a nation as much as he does who wins the Egg Bowl. To Him, both are just strange divisions of his people...

I have read my Bible. And You must not know it at all. Judges and Kings are about Israel, you know God's Chose people. And that was the old covenant. We are under a new covenant, where Jesus came for all nations.

And that prosperity gospel is bullshit. I'm not talking about "Only Money" I'm talking about how you are using it. It's at best ignorant of the world. There are and have been millions of good Christians that do not have "good success" and "want(ed) for essentials"... Including Paul himself... 1 Corinthians 4:11

Stop saying that it all went down in the 1960's. Like I said, it is convenient that that decline of American greatness coincides with letting women and Brown people get Rights... This is at best ignorant...

You need to learn about US history and church history.

Per your distorted "prosperity gospel" God Blessed Pagans and unbelievers more, and for longer than he blessed his chosen...

I cannot understand how China was used to punish anyone as they were an isolated nation from any Christian nation. I was talking about his blessing of China in China's Golden age before 1790. I guess they started sinning really bad about then....

Or per your prosperity gospel, God blessing Rome and the Ottomans, while they killed Christians for centuries....

[Turfdawg67]

Womp Womp

All truth. I'm shocked that a guy that's a fan of the Stars and Bars wouldn't agree. Shouldn't you be reading Breitbart and how BLM is a bad thing.

[Extendedcab]

I'm not side stepping the issue, I'm telling you God care about the flag and a nation as much as he does who wins the Egg Bowl. To Him, both are just strange divisions of his people...

I have read my Bible. And You must not know it at all. Judges and Kings are about Israel, you know God's Chose people. And that was the old covenant. We are under a new covenant, where Jesus came for all nations.

And that prosperity gospel is bullshit. I'm not talking about "Only Money" I'm talking about how you are using it. It's at best ignorant of the world. There are and have been millions of good Christians that do not have "good success" and "want(ed) for essentials"... Including Paul himself... 1 Corinthians 4:11

Stop saying that it all went down in the 1960's. Like I said, it is convenient that that decline of American greatness coincides with letting women and Brown people get Rights... This is at best ignorant...

You need to learn about US history and church history.

Per your distorted "prosperity gospel" God Blessed Pagans and unbelievers more, and for longer than he blessed his chosen...

I cannot understand how China was used to punish anyone as they were an isolated nation from any Christian nation. I was talking about his blessing of China in China's Golden age before 1790. I guess they started sinning really bad about then....

Or per your prosperity gospel, God blessing Rome and the Ottomans, while they killed Christians for centuries....


The only bullshit is your purported knowledge of the bible.

No one fully understands God or His ways and we can't from our limited view of Him, in this life, explain all the purposes He has when He either builds up a nation or pronounces judgement on another. If God is so neutral in national affairs how do you explain, yes this is old testament and regarding Israel, God directing Israel to annihilate groups of people - whole nations of men, women and children, when they took over the promised land - the land filled with milk an honey. That does not fit your description of God. You see him only as Holy and merciful, which He is, but He also demands justice and as illustrated in the old testament and He does use other nations to carry out His will! He will also, at a later time, punish the nation He used to deliver punishment on His behalf. Why? One reason (we don't know the others but scripture does tell us) is because that nation went above the severity of the punishment he wanted delivered. Example, when Israel went into exile, when the Babylonians defeated Israel, ~70 years later the Assyrians defeated the Babylonians. As scripture said, this was their punishment for being cruel to Israel. Read it for yourself.

And in the New Testament, since you think the old does not apply, why does Good put a hook in the nose of the country up north (Russia) and their allies (China and others) to wage war against Israel in the book of Revelation? It is so he can cary out His anger on them and punish them - the battle of Armageddon! Read it for yourself!

Regarding the US, we don't know all of the reasons why God prospered the US as much as He did. You portray the US from its inception as a cruel evil empire that is more evil than any other nation. Have you considered the good things the US has done since its beginnings? We evangelize the world, we give monetary and material (food) aid to most countries of the world, we defend other countries with our own citizens, we police the world to keep world peace, we educate the world, we adopt orphans from around the world, we are a melting pot of different nationalities in the US as we have been the beacon of freedom the world has admired and seeks. Does any other country have the number of immigrants each year for 150+ years the US has? NO! Yes, there are periodic migrations from a war torn country to one that is not in war but over the centuries where do people from other countries want to migrate to? The US!

You see events purely from a human viewpoint and not trying to see it from God's. As Jesus told Peter when Peter rebuked Jesus for saying He was going up to Jerusalem to be abused by the elders and the chief priest, handed over to the gentiles and killed, Jesus told Him - Get behind me satan, You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

Point being - God's ways are not our ways as His ways are higher than ours.

[Dawg2003]

I'm not the arbiter of where the line is, but I know damn well the Confederate flag ain't it.

[bulldawg28]

So God was giving the US a big ole thumbs up when we were slaughtering 1000s of native Americans or enslaving African men, women and children. And must've been grinning ear to ear with all the lynching prior to 1960. Such high morals and Christian ideals we had as a nation!

Preach!

[bulldawg28]

The only bullshit is your purported knowledge of the bible.

No one fully understands God or His ways and we can't from our limited view of Him, in this life, explain all the purposes He has when He either builds up a nation or pronounces judgement on another. If God is so neutral in national affairs how do you explain, yes this is old testament and regarding Israel, God directing Israel to annihilate groups of people - whole nations of men, women and children, when they took over the promised land - the land filled with milk an honey. That does not fit your description of God. You see him only as Holy and merciful, which He is, but He also demands justice and as illustrated in the old testament and He does use other nations to carry out His will! He will also, at a later time, punish the nation He used to deliver punishment on His behalf. Why? One reason (we don't know the others but scripture does tell us) is because that nation went above the severity of the punishment he wanted delivered. Example, when Israel went into exile, when the Babylonians defeated Israel, ~70 years later the Assyrians defeated the Babylonians. As scripture said, this was their punishment for being cruel to Israel. Read it for yourself.

And in the New Testament, since you think the old does not apply, why does Good put a hook in the nose of the country up north (Russia) and their allies (China and others) to wage war against Israel in the book of Revelation? It is so he can cary out His anger on them and punish them - the battle of Armageddon! Read it for yourself!

Regarding the US, we don't know all of the reasons why God prospered the US as much as He did. You portray the US from its inception as a cruel evil empire that is more evil than any other nation. Have you considered the good things the US has done since its beginnings? We evangelize the world, we give monetary and material (food) aid to most countries of the world, we defend other countries with our own citizens, we police the world to keep world peace, we educate the world, we adopt orphans from around the world, we are a melting pot of different nationalities in the US as we have been the beacon of freedom the world has admired and seeks. Does any other country have the number of immigrants each year for 150+ years the US has? NO! Yes, there are periodic migrations from a war torn country to one that is not in war but over the centuries where do people from other countries want to migrate to? The US!

You see events purely from a human viewpoint and not trying to see it from God's. As Jesus told Peter when Peter rebuked Jesus for saying He was going up to Jerusalem to be abused by the elders and the chief priest, handed over to the gentiles and killed, Jesus told Him - Get behind me satan, You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

Point being - God's ways are not our ways as His ways are higher than ours.

God does not care about a flag. He cares about people ALL of which he made. The American flag has become an idol just like the golden calf and other idolatry images in the Bible. This country stands, sings, bows, and honors an object more than God's creation.

[Extendedcab]

God does not care about a flag. He cares about people ALL of which he made. The American flag has become an idol just like the golden calf and other idolatry images in the Bible. This country stands, sings, bows, and honors an object more than God's creation.

I agree with a lot of what you said but it is not explicitly the flag but for what the flag stands for - goodness, security, hope, freedom, etc.

[bulldawg28]

I agree with a lot of what you said but it is not explicitly the flag but for what the flag stands for - goodness, security, hope, freedom, etc.

That's my point exactly. The flag can't stand for anything, it's the people that must do it.

[RocketDawg]

At the time it was called "Providence". Seriously.

That's actually exactly where Providence RI gets its name from.

Rhode Island's official name is "The State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations". If I was ever taught that in school, it totally slipped my mind. Anyway, they're trying to change the name of the state removing "Plantations", perhaps the entire phrase "and Providence Plantations" (which would make more sense than just "The State of Rhode Island and Providence").

https://www.foxnews.com/us/rhode-island-change-official-state-name-slavery-connotations

[natchez87]

You misunderstand, when I refer to the 1960s as being the start of the US moral decide I am not talking about the Civil Rights movement but of moral decline due to the US Supreme court legalizing abortions, removing prayer from school, not teaching the bible in school, not reciting the pledge of allegiance to the US, rise in mother out of wedlock, rampant drug use and addiction, same sex unions, and the transgendered movement. The decline of the US has nothing to do with race but the condition of the human soul.

As Timothy 3:105 states: "But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!"


Sorry I can't take people who portray themselves as devout Christians while simultaneously spreading messages of intolerance and indifference to God's creation seriously. It just doesn't add up. It is in direct opposition to the Word of God. If you know the Bible so well you should meditate and reflect on it more. Especially:

Jeremiah 22:13 "Woe to him who builds his house by unrighteousness, and his upper rooms by injustice, who makes his neighbor serve him for nothing and does not give him his wages."

Jeremiah 5:28-29 "There is no limit to their evil deeds. They do not give orphans their rights or show justice to the oppressed. But I, the LORD, will punish them for these things; I will take revenge on this nation."

James 2:9 "But if you favor some people over others, you are committing a sin. You are guilty of breaking the law."

Genesis 1:27 "So God created human beings in his own image. In the image of God he created them."

Romans 2:5 "But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed."

1 John 4:1 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world."

Galatians 6:7 "Don't be misled -- you cannot mock the justice of God. You will always harvest what you plant."

[natchez87]

God does not care about a flag. He cares about people ALL of which he made. The American flag has become an idol just like the golden calf and other idolatry images in the Bible. This country stands, sings, bows, and honors an object more than God's creation.

100%. Some people have turned the American flag into an idol god. Worshipping it instead of treating their fellow human beings with decency and respect as God instructed them to. It's mostly "evangelical Christians" who do this which is.... interesting.

[Bdawg]

100%. Some people have turned the American flag into an idol god. Worshipping it instead of treating their fellow human beings with decency and respect as God instructed them to. It's mostly "evangelical Christians" who do this which is.... interesting.

I would like to see some facts to back that up, because I don't believe that for a minute. Being a Christian goes against everything you just stated(treating people bad and worshipping idols). And if you are a true Christian, God is first in your life(not a flag, even though you can be very patriotic) and you treat all people with the respect they deserve.

[Bdawg]

God does not care about a flag. He cares about people ALL of which he made. The American flag has become an idol just like the golden calf and other idolatry images in the Bible. This country stands, sings, bows, and honors an object more than God's creation.

Let's not confuse patriotism with idolatry. There may be a fine line there but I'm am very patriotic and proud and thankful to live in this country. Thank goodness we had great men and true patriots who fought to keep this country safe and free. But I'm will to bet as a lot military people say(as I've heard it before): God, country, family is the order they keep things. Now as a non-military man,such as myself, I may switch the last two. But a true Christian always puts God first.

[Rex54]

The iconic John C Calhoun statue in the middle of Charleston has been taken down in the middle of the night by city officials.
7th Vice President of the United States.

https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Roberts-and-Kytle-LEAD.jpg

[bulldawg28]

Let's not confuse patriotism with idolatry. There may be a fine line there but I'm am very patriotic and proud and thankful to live in this country. Thank goodness we had great men and true patriots who fought to keep this country safe and free. But I'm will to bet as a lot military people say(as I've heard it before): God, country, family is the order they keep things. Now as a non-military man,such as myself, I may switch the last two. But a true Christian always puts God first.

Only a simple man with no family puts his country before his family.

[chef dixon]

The iconic John C Calhoun statue in the middle of Charleston has been taken down in the middle of the night by city officials.
7th Vice President of the United States.

Not as iconic as you think

[Extendedcab]

Sorry I can't take people who portray themselves as devout Christians while simultaneously spreading messages of intolerance and indifference to God's creation seriously. It just doesn't add up. It is in direct opposition to the Word of God. If you know the Bible so well you should meditate and reflect on it more. Especially:

Jeremiah 22:13 "Woe to him who builds his house by unrighteousness, and his upper rooms by injustice, who makes his neighbor serve him for nothing and does not give him his wages."

Jeremiah 5:28-29 "There is no limit to their evil deeds. They do not give orphans their rights or show justice to the oppressed. But I, the LORD, will punish them for these things; I will take revenge on this nation."

James 2:9 "But if you favor some people over others, you are committing a sin. You are guilty of breaking the law."

Genesis 1:27 "So God created human beings in his own image. In the image of God he created them."

Romans 2:5 "But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed."

1 John 4:1 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world."

Galatians 6:7 "Don't be misled -- you cannot mock the justice of God. You will always harvest what you plant."

Natchez, you lost me on this one.

What in my message was intolerant? I have said nothing that is racist nor have I put down any particular group of people. The point of this particular thread was that God, in the history of the world has built up nations and torn some down to fulfill His will - His will not mine. This is not intolerant it is a fact, read the old testament.

I am not favoring a particular set of people nor is my house unjust, I just simply provided scripture references that show what God has previously done as recorded in the Bible. Sorry if you have never read that.

[Johnson85]

Only a simple man with no family puts his country before his family.

This is BS and thank goodness it is, because we have been dependent on a lot of people who have put their duty to country above their family and had their family share in their sacrifice.

Also, you should think about some of the pictures of wives and children mourning the loss of their military husband/father and consider if you really think their husband/father was simple. Lots of crazy and offensive things have been typed on this board, but this one is up there at the top.

[SheltonChoked]

The only bullshit is your purported knowledge of the bible.

No one fully understands God or His ways and we can't from our limited view of Him, in this life, explain all the purposes He has when He either builds up a nation or pronounces judgement on another. If God is so neutral in national affairs how do you explain, yes this is old testament and regarding Israel, God directing Israel to annihilate groups of people - whole nations of men, women and children, when they took over the promised land - the land filled with milk an honey. That does not fit your description of God. You see him only as Holy and merciful, which He is, but He also demands justice and as illustrated in the old testament and He does use other nations to carry out His will! He will also, at a later time, punish the nation He used to deliver punishment on His behalf. Why? One reason (we don't know the others but scripture does tell us) is because that nation went above the severity of the punishment he wanted delivered. Example, when Israel went into exile, when the Babylonians defeated Israel, ~70 years later the Assyrians defeated the Babylonians. As scripture said, this was their punishment for being cruel to Israel. Read it for yourself.

And in the New Testament, since you think the old does not apply, why does Good put a hook in the nose of the country up north (Russia) and their allies (China and others) to wage war against Israel in the book of Revelation? It is so he can cary out His anger on them and punish them - the battle of Armageddon! Read it for yourself!

Regarding the US, we don't know all of the reasons why God prospered the US as much as He did. You portray the US from its inception as a cruel evil empire that is more evil than any other nation. Have you considered the good things the US has done since its beginnings? We evangelize the world, we give monetary and material (food) aid to most countries of the world, we defend other countries with our own citizens, we police the world to keep world peace, we educate the world, we adopt orphans from around the world, we are a melting pot of different nationalities in the US as we have been the beacon of freedom the world has admired and seeks. Does any other country have the number of immigrants each year for 150+ years the US has? NO! Yes, there are periodic migrations from a war torn country to one that is not in war but over the centuries where do people from other countries want to migrate to? The US!

You see events purely from a human viewpoint and not trying to see it from God's. As Jesus told Peter when Peter rebuked Jesus for saying He was going up to Jerusalem to be abused by the elders and the chief priest, handed over to the gentiles and killed, Jesus told Him - Get behind me satan, You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.?

Point being - God's ways are not our ways as His ways are higher than ours.

Correct. NO one knows his ways.

God is neutral on nations. He has a "Chosen PEOPLE", the Old Testament sons of Israel. But I'm not the one that is saying this blessing of that named group is was extended to other groups. You are. I said "We are not and never were God's Chosen Nation" Never were. Never will be. That Babylon, Assyria, Rome, and the ottomans defeated God's Chosen nation did not bestow upon them God's Favor. If you think that's the way it works, you should be a follower of the religion of those Nations.

And you are worse than ISIS in reading The Revelation.

I never said the US was evil or an evil empire. I said that the period in history the US was founded was not a very religious time.

All those things are great things about the USA that the current administration is ending.

You are trying to make your human viewpoint God's viewpoint. I'm reading what he said. God has one chosen nation. It's not the USA. God's Chosen people in the Old testament is Israel.

Yes His ways are higher than ours. Why are you putting him in a box that says "USA only"?

[SheltonChoked]

I agree with a lot of what you said but it is not explicitly the flag but for what the flag stands for - goodness, security, hope, freedom, etc.

And there is nothing wrong with a Gold Calf or the Staff of Moses. It's only when the People hold it in a higher position. That's when God gets upset.

Same can be said about Freedom, Goodness, and Hope.

[Extendedcab]

Correct. NO one knows his ways.

God is neutral on nations. He has a "Chosen PEOPLE", the Old Testament sons of Israel. But I'm not the one that is saying this blessing of that named group is was extended to other groups. You are. I said "We are not and never were God's Chosen Nation" Never were. Never will be. That Babylon, Assyria, Rome, and the ottomans defeated God's Chosen nation did not bestow upon them God's Favor. If you think that's the way it works, you should be a follower of the religion of those Nations.

And you are worse than ISIS in reading The Revelation.

I never said the US was evil or an evil empire. I said that the period in history the US was founded was not a very religious time.

All those things are great things about the USA that the current administration is ending.

You are trying to make your human viewpoint God's viewpoint. I'm reading what he said. God has one chosen nation. It's not the USA. God's Chosen people in the Old testament is Israel.

Yes His ways are higher than ours. Why are you putting him in a box that says "USA only"?

You are not reading my posts correctly as I have NEVER said that Blessings are for the USA only. I gave examples of several other nations being blessed throughout history as well (other posters objected and got mad that God blessed other nations for his purpose - like Babylon and Egypt. All I said was that the US was VERY blessed in order to become the leader of the free world. And yes, God did use Egypt to show His power and sovereignty, and he also used Babylon to punish Israel - that is fact as written in the bible. Sorry that you have never read ALL of His word, I say that because if you had, you would not be making some of your comments contrary to the facts.

Proof?

Regarding Egypt): Exodus 9:15-16 For by now I could have stretched out my hand and struck you and your people with a plague that would have wiped you off the earth. But I have raised you up for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.

When Babylon punished Israel: Isaiah 47 1:6: “Go down, sit in the dust, Virgin Daughter Babylon; sit on the ground without a throne, queen city of the Babylonians. No more will you be called tender or delicate. Take millstones and grind flour; take off your veil. Lift up your skirts, bare your legs, and wade through the streams. Your nakedness will be exposed and your shame uncovered. I will take vengeance; I will spare no one.” Our Redeemer—the Lord Almighty is his name is the Holy One of Israel. “Sit in silence, go into darkness, queen city of the Babylonians; no more will you be called queen of kingdoms. I was angry with my people and desecrated my inheritance; I gave them into your hand, and you showed them no mercy.

And Jeremiah 34:2 - "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Go to Zedekiah king of Judah and tell him, 'This is what the LORD says: I am about to give this city into the hands of the king of Babylon, and he will burn it down.

When God punished Babolyn for punishing Israel: Isaiah 13:17-20: "The Lord says, “I am stirring up the Medes[a] to attack Babylon. They care nothing for silver and are not tempted by gold. With their bows and arrows they will kill the young men. They will show no mercy to babies and take no pity on children. Babylonia is the most beautiful kingdom of all; it is the pride of its people. But I, the Lord, will overthrow Babylon as I did Sodom and Gomorrah!"

[DownwardDawg]

Natchez, you lost me on this one.

What in my message was intolerant? I have said nothing that is racist nor have I put down any particular group of people. The point of this particular thread was that God, in the history of the world has built up nations and torn some down to fulfill His will - His will not mine. This is not intolerant it is a fact, read the old testament.

I am not favoring a particular set of people nor is my house unjust, I just simply provided scripture references that show what God has previously done as recorded in the Bible. Sorry if you have never read that.

Yeah, I was wondering if he had reading comprehension issues or something. I don’t remember intolerance to anyone in your posts at all.

[Bdawg]

Only a simple man with no family puts his country before his family.

How the heck can you say that when people leave their families all the time to go defend this country. Thank God they did during the World Wars and today, too. I could make an argument that I might not have a family if it were not for these patriots. I have to disagree with every word of your post.

[Bdawg]

This is BS and thank goodness it is, because we have been dependent on a lot of people who have put their duty to country above their family and had their family share in their sacrifice.

Also, you should think about some of the pictures of wives and children mourning the loss of their military husband/father and consider if you really think their husband/father was simple. Lots of crazy and offensive things have been typed on this board, but this one is up there at the top.

No doubt. Probably said better than I did. Have some rep.

Edit: tried to comment on the rep but it messed up. Sorry

[SheltonChoked]

You are not reading my posts correctly as I have NEVER said that Blessings are for the USA only. I gave examples of several other nations being blessed throughout history as well (other posters objected and got mad that God blessed other nations for his purpose - like Babylon and Egypt. All I said was that the US was VERY blessed in order to become the leader of the free world. And yes, God did use Egypt to show His power and sovereignty, and he also used Babylon to punish Israel - that is fact as written in the bible. Sorry that you have never read ALL of His word, I say that because if you had, you would not be making some of your comments contrary to the facts.

Proof?

Regarding Egypt): Exodus 9:15-16 For by now I could have stretched out my hand and struck you and your people with a plague that would have wiped you off the earth. But I have raised you up for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.

When Babylon punished Israel: Isaiah 47 1:6: ?Go down, sit in the dust, Virgin Daughter Babylon; sit on the ground without a throne, queen city of the Babylonians. No more will you be called tender or delicate. Take millstones and grind flour; take off your veil. Lift up your skirts, bare your legs, and wade through the streams. Your nakedness will be exposed and your shame uncovered. I will take vengeance; I will spare no one.? Our Redeemer?the Lord Almighty is his name is the Holy One of Israel. ?Sit in silence, go into darkness, queen city of the Babylonians; no more will you be called queen of kingdoms. I was angry with my people and desecrated my inheritance; I gave them into your hand, and you showed them no mercy.

And Jeremiah 34:2 - "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Go to Zedekiah king of Judah and tell him, 'This is what the LORD says: I am about to give this city into the hands of the king of Babylon, and he will burn it down.

When God punished Babolyn for punishing Israel: Isaiah 13:17-20: "The Lord says, ?I am stirring up the Medes[a] to attack Babylon. They care nothing for silver and are not tempted by gold. With their bows and arrows they will kill the young men. They will show no mercy to babies and take no pity on children. Babylonia is the most beautiful kingdom of all; it is the pride of its people. But I, the Lord, will overthrow Babylon as I did Sodom and Gomorrah!"


Holy shit.

Please stop using the Bible like this. The bible does not support that God makes nations world powers. That is not the way He works. Israel was never a world power. And the Babylon that conquered Israel (per you to punish them) was not either.

And the medes and Persians did care for silver and gold, but the did not care what god you worshiped.



In Exodus, God, via Moses, was talking to a person, not Egypt. God is telling the person, Ahmose I, that he selected him as Pharaoh for this purpose. You seem to be advocating God raised up and blessed Egypt. This is hard to justify. Here is your timeline. Egypt was raised up to become a world power by God in 3100 BC. It remind a world power until about 1069 BC. Meanwhile, while God was Blessing Egypt, in the about 2000 BC God was telling Abraham and Israel that they were "God's Chosen People". Babylon was at best a regional power and never really a world power.

Again. You claimed God Blessed other nations, All I see is God either rewarding or punishing his people. A stick is not blessed when used for discipline. It's a stick.

[Extendedcab]

Holy shit.

Please stop using the Bible like this. The bible does not support that God makes nations world powers. That is not the way He works. Israel was never a world power. And the Babylon that conquered Israel (per you to punish them) was not either.

And the medes and Persians did care for silver and gold, but the did not care what god you worshiped.



In Exodus, God, via Moses, was talking to a person, not Egypt. God is telling the person, Ahmose I, that he selected him as Pharaoh for this purpose. You seem to be advocating God raised up and blessed Egypt. This is hard to justify. Here is your timeline. Egypt was raised up to become a world power by God in 3100 BC. It remind a world power until about 1069 BC. Meanwhile, while God was Blessing Egypt, in the about 2000 BC God was telling Abraham and Israel that they were "God's Chosen People". Babylon was at best a regional power and never really a world power.

Again. You claimed God Blessed other nations, All I see is God either rewarding or punishing his people. A stick is not blessed when used for discipline. It's a stick.


You can't read, I submitted for your review specific scriptures and you ignore them because they do not match your limited, in a box God, you have envisioned. I put no limits on God as He will do what pleases Him. I did not say they, Egypt and Babylon, were world powers those are your words, I said, actually scripture says, they were built up to the point where God used them to implement His will.

Let me ask you this, did God bless the land of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, before Israel defeated them when they inherited the Promised Land? Of course he did, there are numerous scripture references where the Promised land is called a land flowing with milk and honey. God also said that the land he was giving them was —"a land with large, flourishing cities you did not build, houses filled with all kinds of good things you did not provide, wells you did not dig, and vineyards and olive groves you did not plant—then when you eat and are satisfied." Does that sound like a rod was applied to these nations before Israel moved in? No, they were blessed for the sake of Israel. Israel punished these nations, at God's command, for the idolatry and sacrificing their children to pagan gods.

You do not know the bible! You only think you do! Please read it from front to back like you would any other book.

You can either accept scripture or you can reject it - your choice. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink!

[SheltonChoked]

You can't read, I submitted for your review specific scriptures and you ignore them because they do not match your limited, in a box God, you have envisioned. I put no limits on God as He will do what pleases Him. I did not say they, Egypt and Babylon, were world powers those are your words, I said, actually scripture says, they were built up to the point where God used them to implement His will.

Let me ask you this, did God bless the land of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, before Israel defeated them when they inherited the Promised Land? Of course he did, there are numerous scripture references where the Promised land is called a land flowing with milk and honey. God also said that the land he was giving them was ?"a land with large, flourishing cities you did not build, houses filled with all kinds of good things you did not provide, wells you did not dig, and vineyards and olive groves you did not plant?then when you eat and are satisfied." Does that sound like a rod was applied to these nations before Israel moved in? No, they were blessed for the sake of Israel. Israel punished these nations, at God's command, for the idolatry and sacrificing their children to pagan gods.

You do not know the bible! You only think you do! Please read it from front to back like you would any other book.

You can either accept scripture or you can reject it - your choice. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink!

No. I'm reading what you said and how you compared the US to Egypt and Babylon.

No God did not "bless the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites" He blessed the land of Jacob and Abraham, the land of his Chosen People. But he did not bless it enough to allow the sons of Jacob to live there. They had to move to Egypt.

I'm not the one twisting it into some sort of pat on the back due to the random luck of where I was born.

I have read the Bible. But I also understand History and allegory.

[Extendedcab]

No. I'm reading what you said and how you compared the US to Egypt and Babylon.

No God did not "bless the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites" He blessed the land of Jacob and Abraham, the land of his Chosen People. But he did not bless it enough to allow the sons of Jacob to live there. They had to move to Egypt.

I'm not the one twisting it into some sort of pat on the back due to the random luck of where I was born.

I have read the Bible. But I also understand History and allegory.

Yes, they had to move to Egypt to increase in number to be able to defeat the nations of the Promised Land - it took 400 years while they were enslaved and oppressed (that is why God displayed his powers to crush the Egyptians - they were cruel to Israel). But during the 400 years they were in Egypt, yes indeed the nations in the promised land were blessed so that the land would be good and filled with milk and honey for Israel when they occupied the land.

Who said anything about random luck and patting one self on the back, I have said nothing about me personally - like I am rich, I live in a mansion, I have boats, planes and every other material luxury. All I have done is display scripture for your reading and comprehension.

Now I see the issue here, you interpret the bible allegorically (your words not mine) and I interpret it literally except where it explicitly states otherwise. For example if scripture uses terms like "it is like", "it can be compared to", "these things are to be taken figuratively", etc, then we know the following passage it not literal but figurative speech in order to teach a lesson. The parables of Jesus are other examples.

“Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’"

[bulldawg28]

How the heck can you say that when people leave their families all the time to go defend this country. Thank God they did during the World Wars and today, too. I could make an argument that I might not have a family if it were not for these patriots. I have to disagree with every word of your post.

That's your take. I do my actions for my family. Blacks were taken away from their families and stripped from Freedom in this country. Where it benefits you it's one sided.

[Bdawg]

That's your take. I do my actions for my family. Blacks were taken away from their families and stripped from Freedom in this country. Where it benefits you it's one sided.

Why in the world did you bring race in this discussion? We were talking about idolatry and patriotism. But since you did, don't think for a minute that blacks haven't benefitted from patriotic people in this country. And while you speak of something that happened roughly 160 years ago, we are ALL free people today because of the patriots we talked about and that benefit is not one sided.

[bulldawg28]

Why in the world did you bring race in this discussion? We were talking about idolatry and patriotism. But since you did, don't think for a minute that blacks haven't benefitted from patriotic people in this country. And while you speak of something that happened roughly 160 years ago, we are ALL free people today because of the patriots we talked about and that benefit is not one sided.

It really simple if you'll read the narrative. It explains why country would never be before family which is also biblical. Everything God did was for the family " sons", "generations ", "his seeds"...etc. Bowing to a country is idolatry. The Bible says do good to all men especially those in the household of faith.-Galatians 6:10.

It's never been about a country.

[Extendedcab]

It really simple if you'll read the narrative. It explains why country would never be before family which is also biblical. Everything God did was for the family " sons", "generations ", "his seeds"...etc. Bowing to a country is idolatry. The Bible says do good to all men especially those in the household of faith.-Galatians 6:10.

It's never been about a country.

I am not going to argue about order of family versus country but keep in mind it is God that created countries or nations as well. Consider the following scripture:

Act 17: 26-27 - From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.

Exodus 23:31 - I will fix your boundary from the Red Sea to the sea of the Philistines, and from the wilderness to the River Euphrates; for I will deliver the inhabitants of the land into your hand, and you will drive them out before you.

Deuteronomy 32:8 - ?When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, When He separated the sons of man, He set the boundaries of the peoples According to the number of the sons of Israel.

Nehemiah 9:22 - ?You also gave them kingdoms and peoples, And allotted them to them as a boundary. They took possession of the land of Sihon the king of Heshbon And the land of Og the king of Bashan.

Psalm 74:17 - "You have established all the boundaries of the earth; ..."

God is concerned about nations and national boundaries as He established them.

[Bdawg]

It really simple if you'll read the narrative. It explains why country would never be before family which is also biblical. Everything God did was for the family " sons", "generations ", "his seeds"...etc. Bowing to a country is idolatry. The Bible says do good to all men especially those in the household of faith.-Galatians 6:10.

It's never been about a country.

No one bows to a country if God is first. I'm just making a point that Christians can make family or country interchangeable and not be wrong either way, so long that God is #1!! To each his own to choose which comes in 2nd or 3rd.

To add: God was also very involved in nation building. Just like today, all the nations of today is all apart of God's plan. He is apart of everything. It's all His!!!

[FISHDAWG]

time to shake the dust from your heels brother ... can't argue with a hard heart

[War Machine Dawg]

I hate the kneeling. It's turned me off to almost everything, honestly. Once you go Woke, there's no going back. The Woke Mob sees you bent the knee, smells the weakness and just keeps pushing for more and more. It's frankly enough to kill my interest in sports almost completely, especially with the new social justice patches for uniforms.

I don't mind paying college athletes, but I don't want to see them unionize, although I suspect it's inevitable now. As for revenue at the pro level, it's already dropping. TV ratings are way down and attendance is falling too. These fools are killing their own leagues and are too stupid or Woke to figure out that the political BS is what people watch sports to escape for a while.

But I suspect I'm in the minority on this. Most people are just too addicted to sports to give it up over political principle. I'll always bleed maroon, but seeing snowflakes represent MSU and kneeling just makes me sad and angry. Especially when the things they think they're standing for are all based on lies and misinformation. We're in a really bad place.

[TUSK]

I hate the kneeling. It's turned me off to almost everything, honestly. Once you go Woke, there's no going back. The Woke Mob sees you bent the knee, smells the weakness and just keeps pushing for more and more. It's frankly enough to kill my interest in sports almost completely, especially with the new social justice patches for uniforms.

I don't mind paying college athletes, but I don't want to see them unionize, although I suspect it's inevitable now. As for revenue at the pro level, it's already dropping. TV ratings are way down and attendance is falling too. These fools are killing their own leagues and are too stupid or Woke to figure out that the political BS is what people watch sports to escape for a while.

But I suspect I'm in the minority on this. Most people are just too addicted to sports to give it up over political principle. I'll always bleed maroon, but seeing snowflakes represent MSU and kneeling just makes me sad and angry. Especially when the things they think they're standing for are all based on lies and misinformation. We're in a really bad place.

What this^ guy said.... +1