So y'all ready to never see a regional at the Dude again?

[Liverpooldawg]

Among other things. The flag needs to go, 20 years ago. This better not get locked because it is absolutely sports related, MSU sports related. Given what the SEC said today the NCAA will absolutely follow. It's that simple, as long as that is our state flag, there will never be another baseball regional or Super at Dudy Noble Field.

[MaroonFlounder]

Among other things. The flag needs to go, 20 years ago. This better not get locked because it is absolutely sports related, MSU sports related. Given what the SEC said today the NCAA will absolutely follow. It's that simple, as long as that is our state flag, there will never be another baseball regional or Super at Dudy Noble Field.

There's been many regionals at Dudy Noble through the years WITH the current flag. What would be different?

For the record, I want the flag changed, and be done with this debate.

[BeardoMSU]

Night time super regionals are overrated anyways....it's much more satisfying being obviously stubborn with every breath while thumbing our noses to authority. But hey, we're showing that this is an effective strategy (160+ years in the making); it's not just for petulant children!***

[LC Dawg]

The flag is coming down soon but in typical Mississippi fashion we'll still look like dumbass hicks before it gets done. If we voted today I believe it would be voted out but our chickenshit "leaders" will drag their feet and make it look like we were forced to do it against our will.
This is just a start in regards to sports. No SEC championships won't hurt us and Ole Miss a lot but don't think the NCAA won't be far behind in banning any kind of postseason including baseball regionals. If the state digs in its heels it could lead to no SEC games in the state.
That's just sports related. Corporations are going to start doing less business with the state.
It's not 2001. It's not going away this time.

[BeardoMSU]

The flag is coming down soon but in typical Mississippi fashion we'll still look like dumbass hicks before it gets done. If we voted today I believe it would be voted out but our chickenshit "leaders" will drag their feet and make it look like we were forced to do it against our will.
This is just a start in regards to sports. No SEC championships won't hurt us and Ole Miss a lot but don't think the NCAA won't be far behind in banning any kind of postseason including baseball regionals. If the state digs in its heels it could lead to no SEC games in the state.
That's just sports related. Corporations are going to start doing less business with the state.
It's not 2001. It's not going away this time.

This^ Also, the people crying "lEt tHu pEopLe DecIde!" willfully forget that in 1894 the legislature "decided" to adopt the current flag, as an obvious antagonistic middle finger to those tyrants up north (how brave of them, lol)....sure did show 'em.

[msstatelp1]

There's been many regionals at Dudy Noble through the years WITH the current flag. What would be different?

For the record, I want the flag changed, and be done with this debate.

Former athletes and others are starting to call for no post season games of any kind in the state until the flag is gone. So far we've been allowed regionals and supers because they were "earned".

[mparkerfd20]

It passed by 64% before so don't be so damn stupid to think it wouldn't pass to stay again. Damn some of yall are some sure enough dumbasses.

It won't go to a vote this time because it would remain yet again. I can make arguments on both sides but changing a flag isn't going to change anything I'm afraid. I do like the designs of some of the alternatives I've seen tho.

[ShotgunDawg]

I'm a conservative but the lack of leadership and initiative to make things happen is oddly slow and painful in Mississippi.

I'm always struck by the lack of ambition to make things happen. Why does Mississippi always have the follow? Why can't we ever take the initiative and be first?

Building the new Dudy Noble may be the first time in my life the Mississippians chose to be first in something

Think about it and name another.

[Liverpooldawg]

There's been many regionals at Dudy Noble through the years WITH the current flag. What would be different?

For the record, I want the flag changed, and be done with this debate.

Unreal

[LC Dawg]

It passed by 64% before so don't be so damn stupid to think it wouldn't pass to stay again. Damn some of yall are some sure enough dumbasses.

It won't go to a vote this time because it would remain yet again. I can make arguments on both sides but changing a flag isn't going to change anything I'm afraid. I do like the designs of some of the alternatives I've seen tho.

I hope it's changed without a vote but I'm curious what the vote would be. Every registered voter in Mississippi under the age of 35 couldn't vote in 2001. I think the flag would narrowly be voted out. Then our poor ass state would probably spend hundreds of millions of dollars challenging the results in court.

[Liverpooldawg]

For those that like to cite history as a reason to keep this flag, don't look at the history behind it. It was absolutely adopted BY THE LEGISLATURE to symbolize that reconstruction was over and the old guard was back in control. That is NOT debatable. They made no bones about it. It needs to go. I want to go to another regional at the Dude in my lifetime. If that flag remains, I never will.

[Liverpooldawg]

I hope it's changed without a vote but I'm curious what the vote would be. Every registered voter in Mississippi under the age of 35 couldn't vote in 2001. I think the flag would narrowly be voted out. Then our poor ass state would probably spend hundreds of millions of dollars challenging the results in court.
I suspect it would be retained by a roughly similar margin. For the record, obviously, I voted to do away with it the last time.

[Skydawg1]

Among other things. The flag needs to go, 20 years ago. This better not get locked because it is absolutely sports related, MSU sports related. Given what the SEC said today the NCAA will absolutely follow. It's that simple, as long as that is our state flag, there will never be another baseball regional or Super at Dudy Noble Field.Bwahahha...the whore NCAA would never not host SR at the Dude.

[Homedawg]

The flag is going to be changed....

[KOdawg1]

Bwahahha...the whore NCAA would never not host SR at the Dude.

Wouldn't be so sure of that. If our legislators drag their feet and draw this out, I could see them amending the rules to where we can't host regionals.

That said, the flag's going to end up getting changed as it should

[Homedawg]

Wouldn't be so sure of that. If our legislators drag their feet and draw this out, I could see them amending the rules to where we can't host regionals.

That said, the flag's going to end up getting changed as it should

This is correct on all counts

[Skydawg1]

This is correct on all countsBullshit on all accounts. NCAA will NEVER deny 13,000 tickets sold. I don't care who you are. State is a rare money maker in baseball.

[Homedawg]

Bullshit on all accounts. NCAA will NEVER deny 13,000 tickets sold. I don't care who you are. State is a rare money maker in baseball.

You have lost your mind. They are going to follow the league and say don't change the flag and don't host. Sit back and watch. They let the best teams host now. Bids have nothing to do with it anymore anyway. And if they did it wouldn't matter. You sir are wrong

[Liverpooldawg]

Bullshit on all accounts. NCAA will NEVER deny 13,000 tickets sold. I don't care who you are. State is a rare money maker in baseball.
You are nuts.

[QuadrupleOption]

Bullshit on all accounts. NCAA will NEVER deny 13,000 tickets sold. I don't care who you are. State is a rare money maker in baseball.

13,000 tickets is chump change to an organization that clears a billion dollars a year. They'll cut us off in a heartbeat if the SEC shuts us down.

They left us alone because we had the SEC in our corner. We don't enjoy that privilege any more.

[Todd4State]

This is a conspiracy theory from my parents that I was told when I was a child and may or may not be true. But certainly their opinion and there is maybe something to it.

Anyway in their opinion- and obviously they have held this opinion for years now- one of the reasons that MSU doesn't have a National Title or seem to get calls on the National stage is because of the state flag and the national perception of the state. Now obviously I don't KNOW that to be fact and it's just a theory. But having watched us get royally screwed in Omaha by that umpire against Louisville and then in the Women's National Title Game against Notre Dame it does make me wonder if the flag and the state's image hurt us when we get into those situations.

And then to go beyond that- does it hurt us even in SEC play sometimes- does the SEC really want a school like Ole Miss to be the image of their football empire? For us on a lesser scale does the image of the state and the flag hurt us in sports like football even though we don't glorify the Confederate stuff at MSU because we're in the same state? At the very least I think it affects the perception nationally.

I know that this is about regionals but does the flag hurt MSU as far as attracting potential students to MSU? Maybe a few.

And as a state I think it definitely hurts on a bigger non-MSU level. For example what if Jackson wanted to host a bowl game? You can say all you want about the Vet but it's better than Legion Field which hosts a bowl and I can't say that Shreveport is a lot better. Mobile is not great- you get my point. But I think in part because of the flag Mississippi will never have a bowl game even though I think the potential to have a lower level or HBCU bowl is definitely there and would be good for the city of Jackson as well as the state of Mississippi.

Just some other things to think about.

[Todd4State]

Bullshit on all accounts. NCAA will NEVER deny 13,000 tickets sold. I don't care who you are. State is a rare money maker in baseball.

The NCAA's view of college baseball is they don't care that much about it. They prioritize the wrong things sometimes. In this case to be clear I'm referring to money vs allowing someone like Michigan to host a regional because they're in the North.

Like Homedawg said they typically focus on other things. Overall performance being number one. It's different every year. Sometimes they prioritize spreading it around the conferences, sometimes they spread it around based on region, sometimes it's more RPI/SOS based. It really depends on the year and the committee and kind of what the vibe throughout the sport is that particular season. Typically attendance is on the lower end though because there are enough schools that draw well enough they don't have to worry about it and they're getting TV money regardless now. Like they're not going to pick 35-20 MSU with a RPI of 20 over 38-17 Vanderbilt with a RPI 12 because of attendance.

[ScoobaDawg]

Among other things. The flag needs to go, 20 years ago. This better not get locked because it is absolutely sports related, MSU sports related. Given what the SEC said today the NCAA will absolutely follow. It's that simple, as long as that is our state flag, there will never be another baseball regional or Super at Dudy Noble Field.

It won't get locked. Or deleted unlike the dawg pound on Facebook.

Anyone who wants to keep the current flag. Speak up and give me a reason why....

I think I've already made my point clear on different mediums. It has to change. It stands for racism and hate and suppression.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

The NCAA and 90% of the schools in it dont give a rip about baseball and wouldnt blink an eye on dropping it.... so keeping Mississippi from hosting a Regional could easily be done.

[ScoobaDawg]

The NCAA and 90% of the schools in it dont give a rip about baseball and wouldnt blink an eye on dropping it.... so keeping Mississippi from hosting a Regional could easily be done.

truth and our other big one now is wbb. maybe t&f. and softball too...
those are much needed hosting opportunities... and now we have 25 athletes from ms including 2 from msu asking the ncaa to not award post-season pay to sports until the flag is changed. we can't miss out on that.

[Uncivilengineer]

"So y'all ready to never see a regional at the Dude again?"
YES.

[Rex54]

It doesn't matter what you do, keep the flag or take it down, this mob will never stop. Are you fine with the Lee statue coming down and "rename Lee Hall"? Are you fine with "until you allow third trimester abortions".... There is a Maoist cultural revolutionary energy happening right now, we're seeing Washington and Jefferson statues torn down, and you think a little appeasement will make a difference. At some point normal people have to stand for normal civilization and society and tell these people, "no".

[Ifyouonlyknew]

It doesn't matter what you do, keep the flag or take it down, this mob will never stop. Are you fine with the Lee statue coming down and "rename Lee Hall"? Are you fine with "until you allow third trimester abortions".... There is a Maoist cultural revolutionary energy happening right now, we're seeing Washington and Jefferson statues torn down, and you think a little appeasement will make a difference. At some point normal people have to stand for normal civilization and society and tell these people, "no".

& you're saying the flag is where we should put our foot down?

[ShotgunDawg]

It doesn't matter what you do, keep the flag or take it down, this mob will never stop. Are you fine with the Lee statue coming down and "rename Lee Hall"? Are you fine with "until you allow third trimester abortions".... There is a Maoist cultural revolutionary energy happening right now, we're seeing Washington and Jefferson statues torn down, and you think a little appeasement will make a difference. At some point normal people have to stand for normal civilization and society and tell these people, "no".

I'm a conservative, but fearing where the mob will stop shouldn't prevent us from doing the right thing now.

I too worry about where the mob will stop, but the flag is clearly offensive & has no place in today's society. Those two issues shouldn't be related.

[BeardoMSU]

I'm a conservative, but fearing where the mob will stop shouldn't prevent us from doing the right thing now.

I too worry about where the mob will stop, but the flag is clearly offensive & has no place in today's society. Those two issues shouldn't be related.

The flag is the definition of low hanging fruit, and should've been picked years ago.

[ShotgunDawg]

The flag is the definition of low hanging fruit, and should've been picked years ago.

Agree

[KOdawg1]

It doesn't matter what you do, keep the flag or take it down, this mob will never stop. Are you fine with the Lee statue coming down and "rename Lee Hall"? Are you fine with "until you allow third trimester abortions".... There is a Maoist cultural revolutionary energy happening right now, we're seeing Washington and Jefferson statues torn down, and you think a little appeasement will make a difference. At some point normal people have to stand for normal civilization and society and tell these people, "no".
That's a weak argument. The flag should come down because it's the right thing to do. The "where will it stop?" standpoint is just a sad excuse for those wanting to keep it. Hopefully when things need so obviously to be changed, we change it. That's what democracies do. You feel that uncomfortable feeling you have? It's called change. Embrace it.

[KOdawg1]

Bullshit on all accounts. NCAA will NEVER deny 13,000 tickets sold. I don't care who you are. State is a rare money maker in baseball.

Wrong.

Ross Dellenger put out a tweet this morning that says the NCAA is looking to amend the 2001 rules to ban ALL postseason events in MS. That includes regionals and super regionals. So you're wrong.

Someone embed the tweet in case he calls bullshit again.

[Captain Falcon]

Set your own personal feelings aside and you'll realize that MSU is going to be hurt and put at a real disadvantage in our two best sports (baseball and women's basketball) if the flag doesn't change. That is an objective fact regardless of where you stand on the flag issue.

I am a lifelong conservative who has generally been apathetic about the flag, I will admit. I am no doubt a flawed human being and perhaps my lack of care or interest in this issue has been another flaw of mine. But now it's at the point where my school is about to be put in a bad situation if change doesn't happen, and I really don't want to see us being put in a bad situation.

I have a lot of big problems with today's cancel culture and normally don't like it when people give in to the demands of the angry mob, but on this particular issue I'm willing to say that I don't think our current state flag is worth fighting to keep. I hope it's changed just so I don't have to hear or read about flag debates again in my lifetime. Keeping it is just not worth it to me.

[TrapGame]

It's time. This will benefit us in the long run. And not only MSU but the entire state of Mississippi.

Once the flag has been changed I expect the SEC/NCAA to tell ole miss they can't be ole miss anymore.

[ShotgunDawg]

This is a conspiracy theory from my parents that I was told when I was a child and may or may not be true. But certainly their opinion and there is maybe something to it.

Anyway in their opinion- and obviously they have held this opinion for years now- one of the reasons that MSU doesn't have a National Title or seem to get calls on the National stage is because of the state flag and the national perception of the state. Now obviously I don't KNOW that to be fact and it's just a theory. But having watched us get royally screwed in Omaha by that umpire against Louisville and then in the Women's National Title Game against Notre Dame it does make me wonder if the flag and the state's image hurt us when we get into those situations.

And then to go beyond that- does it hurt us even in SEC play sometimes- does the SEC really want a school like Ole Miss to be the image of their football empire? For us on a lesser scale does the image of the state and the flag hurt us in sports like football even though we don't glorify the Confederate stuff at MSU because we're in the same state? At the very least I think it affects the perception nationally.

I know that this is about regionals but does the flag hurt MSU as far as attracting potential students to MSU? Maybe a few.

And as a state I think it definitely hurts on a bigger non-MSU level. For example what if Jackson wanted to host a bowl game? You can say all you want about the Vet but it's better than Legion Field which hosts a bowl and I can't say that Shreveport is a lot better. Mobile is not great- you get my point. But I think in part because of the flag Mississippi will never have a bowl game even though I think the potential to have a lower level or HBCU bowl is definitely there and would be good for the city of Jackson as well as the state of Mississippi.

Just some other things to think about.

Nah

[SheltonChoked]

It doesn't matter what you do, keep the flag or take it down, this mob will never stop. Are you fine with the Lee statue coming down and "rename Lee Hall"? Are you fine with "until you allow third trimester abortions".... There is a Maoist cultural revolutionary energy happening right now, we're seeing Washington and Jefferson statues torn down, and you think a little appeasement will make a difference. At some point normal people have to stand for normal civilization and society and tell these people, "no".

So let me get this straight, because "THEY" might, sometime in the future, want to go too far in removing things, but want to keep, per the people that voted for it at the time, things created "to exclude the Negro." and "to secure to the State of Mississippi, 'white supremacy'" and " to maintain white supremacy"? This is where you think we should draw the line? You want to support that?

More you want that to continue to define the State?

Quote below from the legislators that chose the Flag...


[...] Let's tell the truth if it bursts the bottom of the Universe. [...] We came here to exclude the Negro. Nothing short of this will answer.

? Solomon Saladin "S.S." Calhoon, Mississippi Constitutional Convention of 1890,


[...] It is the manifest intention of this Convention to secure to the State of Mississippi, 'white supremacy'. [...]

? Delegate George P. Melchior of Bolivar County, Mississippi Constitutional Convention of 1890, (D-MS), emphasis added.

[...] What are you here for, if not to maintain white supremacy? [...]

? Delegate Will T. Martin of Adams County, Mississippi Constitutional Convention of 1890, (D-MS)

[...] no advancement, no invention, no history, no literature, no governmental polity. We see only ignorance, slavery, cannibalism, no respective, cannibalism, no respect for women, no respect for anything [...] not inventive, not progressive, not resourceful, not energetic [...]

? Solomon Saladin "S.S." Calhoon, Negro Suffrage, (1890), by S.S. Calhoon, Jackson, Mississippi: Commonwealth Steam Print.[3][4]

[...] Negro suffrage is an evil, and an evil [...]

? Solomon Saladin "S.S." Calhoon, Negro Suffrage, (1890), by S.S. Calhoon, Jackson, Mississippi: Commonwealth Steam Print.[3][4]

[...] The negro race seems unable to maintain even its own imitative acquirements. It seems unfit to rule. Its rule seems to mean, as it has always meant, stagnation, the enslavement of woman, the brutilization of man, animal savagery, universal ruin. [...]

? Solomon Saladin "S.S. Calhoon, Mississippi Constitutional Convention of 1890, (1890)

There is no use to equivocate or lie about the matter. [...] Mississippi's constitutional convention of 1890 was held for no other purpose than to eliminate the ****** from politics. Not the 'ignorant and vicious', as some of the apologists would have you believe, but the ******. [...] Let the world know it just as it is.

? James K. Vardaman,


They do not object to negroes voting on account of ignorance, but on account of color.

? The Clarion-Ledger,

In Mississippi we have in our constitution legislated against the racial peculiarities of the Negro. [...] When that device fails, we will resort to something else.

? James K. Vardaman,

[ScoobaDawg]

Wrong.

Ross Dellenger put out a tweet this morning that says the NCAA is looking to amend the 2001 rules to ban ALL postseason events in MS. That includes regionals and super regionals. So you're wrong.

Someone embed the tweet in case he calls bullshit again.

It's beyond time...
https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status/1273969489902735360

[Rex54]

& you're saying the flag is where we should put our foot down?
No, we should have put our foot down long before now.

[WinningIsRelentless]

The alumni association needs to start a petition to change the flag today. It should have been done years ago.

[BeardoMSU]

So let me get this straight, because "THEY" might, sometime in the future, want to go too far in removing things, per the people that voted for it at the time, created "to exclude the Negro." and "to secure to the State of Mississippi, 'white supremacy'" and " to maintain white supremacy"? This is where you think we should draw the line? You want to support that?

More you want that to continue to define the State?

Quote below from the legislators that chose the Flag...

Ouch. Yep, they were definitely thinking "hospitality state" when spewing that shit.

[LC Dawg]

Hosemann sent the flag resolution to the Senate Constitution committee where it will die. Our lawmakers are going to turn this into a ****ing circus and a huge embarrassment to the state. There will be more idiots like the Lowndes County supervisor interviewed and make us all look bad. Hopefully our MSU leaders speaking out against the flag will make our university look good. The state will spend millions it can't afford to fight about something that is going to eventually happen. Hell, if Tate Reeves waved a wand and changed the flag today he'd still get reelected. Mississippi Republicans aren't going to vote for a Democrat just because the Republican candidate pissed them off.

[DownwardDawg]

Why penalize Miss State and ole miss because of the flag that the State uses? Both universities removed the state flag years ago didn’t they? The university doesn’t get to decide the state flag, so this makes no sense at all.
Just for disclosure, I’m all for changing the flag because it’s obviously offensive to many people.

[Bothrops]

I agree that the flag should have been taken down a while back. But Mississippi historically doesn't like change, any change, and is indifferent to prosperity. I hate the SJW movement, I hate liberals, I hate the revolutionary communist ideology, I hate the political system, but I also hate the good ol' boys club, and I hate division from within over an easy fix.

[msstatelp1]

Why penalize Miss State and ole miss because of the flag that the State uses? Both universities removed the state flag years ago didn’t they? The university doesn’t get to decide the state flag, so this makes no sense at all.
Just for disclosure, I’m all for changing the flag because it’s obviously offensive to many people.

It's not to penalize the universities, it's to penalize the state. The universities are collateral damage.

[SheltonChoked]

Set your own personal feelings aside and you'll realize that MSU is going to be hurt and put at a real disadvantage in our two best sports (baseball and women's basketball) if the flag doesn't change. That is an objective fact regardless of where you stand on the flag issue.

I am a lifelong conservative who has generally been apathetic about the flag, I will admit. I am no doubt a flawed human being and perhaps my lack of care or interest in this issue has been another flaw of mine. But now it's at the point where my school is about to be put in a bad situation if change doesn't happen, and I really don't want to see us being put in a bad situation.

I have a lot of big problems with today's cancel culture and normally don't like it when people give in to the demands of the angry mob, but on this particular issue I'm willing to say that I don't think our current state flag is worth fighting to keep. I hope it's changed just so I don't have to hear or read about flag debates again in my lifetime. Keeping it is just not worth it to me.


Reply just to add that it is more than 2 sports. Softball, Tennis, and Track have also hosted NCAA events in the past several years.

[Percho]

CHANGE the flag?

Well just think about it; Each and everyone, born of woman, must be born again.

Change is a must!

[StarkVegasSteve]

We don't need to solely change it because we would be losing regionals and super regionals, but that's a pretty damn good reason to me. Tater Tot just needs to go ahead and make it happen. He'll more than make up for anyone he might lose by changing it.

[Homedawg]

Bullshit on all accounts. NCAA will NEVER deny 13,000 tickets sold. I don't care who you are. State is a rare money maker in baseball.

Well it didn't take a day to prove you were wrong....

[JayDawg]

Bullshit on all accounts. NCAA will NEVER deny 13,000 tickets sold. I don't care who you are. State is a rare money maker in baseball.

/r/agedlikemilk

[bostondawg]

Call your representatives and state/local leaders to push this issue ASAP. If all of us just sit around on a message board declaring that the flag will definitely be changed, that gives Tate Reeves and co. time to kick this can down the road (which will cost us money and prestige as a university in the long run). Don't let this issue slide.

[sandwolf]

Bwahahha...the whore NCAA would never not host SR at the Dude.


Bullshit on all accounts. NCAA will NEVER deny 13,000 tickets sold. I don't care who you are. State is a rare money maker in baseball.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/l4FGzTRVr14I4Ja00/giphy-downsized-large.gif

[Skydawg1]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/l4FGzTRVr14I4Ja00/giphy-downsized-large.gifyep. shows what I know.

[msbulldog]

Locked and loaded.

[Joebob]

The alumni association needs to start a petition to change the flag today. It should have been done years ago.

I was going to say, it would be nice if a Mississippi faction led the charge to make this change. It's always a better look if the change is voluntary rather than only because you were forced to.

[bostondawg]

I was going to say, it would be nice if a Mississippi faction led the charge to make this change. It's always a better look if the change is voluntary rather than only because you were forced to.

Exactly this. Everyone in America has been laughing at Mississippi for decades because of issues like this flag nonsense. Christ, Mississippi--take some damn initiative and lead for a change. Instead of waiting around for the National Guard to force these issues on the state.

[RocketDawg]

Why penalize Miss State and ole miss because of the flag that the State uses? Both universities removed the state flag years ago didn’t they? The university doesn’t get to decide the state flag, so this makes no sense at all.
Just for disclosure, I’m all for changing the flag because it’s obviously offensive to many people.

Because many people in Mississippi (and other states too) are obsessed with college sports to the point that reducing its availability will make some people change their minds, just to keep the ability to host post-season play. Sports are that important to many. It's kind of a "hit them where it hurts" type thing.

[ScoobaDawg]

Exactly this. Everyone in America has been laughing at Mississippi for decades because of issues like this flag nonsense. Christ, Mississippi--take some damn initiative and lead for a change. Instead of waiting around for the National Guard to force these issues on the state.

Preach!!!! Damn why must change be forced on ms. It's why businesses don't move here. Why the education isn't better.

It's beyond time for so much to change.

[Lord McBuckethead]

& you're saying the flag is where we should put our foot down?

No. The flag is stupid. Just do away with it and do not vote in a new one. And what is this foot I keep hearing about? The flag is 17n racist. End of story. I am embarrassed I am associated with it through being a mississippian.

[Rex54]

Exactly this. Everyone in America has been laughing at Mississippi for decades.

Pathetic. Oh no the sick people that have nearly destroyed all sense of normalcy and community in America have been laughing at us. Maybe it's time we laugh at them and stop worrying about going along with the worldview of the media and corporate America in so many facets of society.

[Maroonthirteen]

Because many people in Mississippi (and other states too) are obsessed with college sports to the point that reducing its availability will make some people change their minds, just to keep the ability to host post-season play. Sports are that important to many. It's kind of a "hit them where it hurts" type thing.

I would agree with this. However Mississippi has many citizens that are Alabama and LSU fans and fans of other schools. These people don't give a damn if the instate schools play a regional.

[R2Dawg]

This^ Also, the people crying "lEt tHu pEopLe DecIde!" willfully forget that in 1894 the legislature "decided" to adopt the current flag, as an obvious antagonistic middle finger to those tyrants up north (how brave of them, lol)....sure did show 'em.

That period was a little more complicated than that; I'm not a historian but this country was founded on states rights. After losing the war with much loss and humiliation, Abe and others after sought to bring the country together as one. The reconstruction period was tough and maybe not handled well at times. The confederate statue thing was also an attempt to bring the country together as one and move on.

The flag will get changed which I am for at this point. Flag doesn't really mean anything except now penalizing MS sports and schools and students, etc.

[Dawg2003]

I honestly don't see it getting changed anytime soon. The sports that we and Ole Miss can host are niche sports that don't generate a lot of money. Softball, baseball, women's basketball, tennis. We're also run by a backwards good ole boy system that would probably put it to a popular vote and then find a way to rig it by suppressing votes. They'd probably close polling stations, so people would have to wait in line for hours to vote. Mississippi has a terrible history with voter suppression, so there's no need to think that would change.

[TrapGame]

That period was a little more complicated than that; I'm not a historian but this country was founded on states rights. After losing the war with much loss and humiliation, Abe and others after sought to bring the country together as one. The reconstruction period was tough and maybe not handled well at times. The confederate statue thing was also an attempt to bring the country together as one and move on.

The flag will get changed which I am for at this point. Flag doesn't really mean anything except now penalizing MS sports and schools and students, etc.

One of the more interesting conspiracy theories about Lincoln's assassination is he favored a total rebuild of the South. He was going to fully restore the South. It was going to be a massive undertaking costing more money than the country had ever spent. But Lincoln thought it should be done. The generals were terrified of another war. They thought giving the South money to rebuild and restore would embolden them to secede once again. They wanted the South to remain poor and beaten.

[Dolphus Raymond]

Rhett Butler said it best:
Look at them, all these poor, tragic people. The South is sinking to its knees. It?ll never rise again. THE CAUSE!! The cause of living in the past is dying right in front of us.

[DownwardDawg]

I honestly don't see it getting changed anytime soon. The sports that we and Ole Miss can host are niche sports that don't generate a lot of money. Softball, baseball, women's basketball, tennis. We're also run by a backwards good ole boy system that would probably put it to a popular vote and then find a way to rig it by suppressing votes. They'd probably close polling stations, so people would have to wait in line for hours to vote. Mississippi has a terrible history with voter suppression, so there's no need to think that would change.

If they put it to a vote, no one will have to rig it. The old flag will win again. The reason I think this?? I have spoken to a handful of Mississippian's this week that watch sports but aren't diehards like a bunch of us. They have told me that they could care less if any school in Mississippi ever hosts a regional again. The want a vote so the old flag will win again. Mississippian's do not like being forced into a corner. If we would have voted a few months ago, I think we might would have gotten a new flag because the older folks didn't have much passion around it anymore. Now, the older folks will come out in droves to show up the NCAA. It is what it is.

[Dawg2003]

No one likes being forced into a corner, but the problem is that this state had to be forced to end slavery and Jim Crow by the federal government. It makes you wonder how long slavery and Jim Crow would have been legal if the state hadn't been forced to stop it.

[bostondawg]

Pathetic. Oh no the sick people that have nearly destroyed all sense of normalcy and community in America have been laughing at us. Maybe it's time we laugh at them and stop worrying about going along with the worldview of the media and corporate America in so many facets of society.

I'm sorry you're incapable of seeing the need for change here. Luckily for the world, it will move forward whether you like it or not. You have the choice--build Mississippi into an industrial leader in the 21st century in engineering, science, arts, and politics. You can be the innovator and take the future by the reins. Or, you can be left in the dust. Time and time again, Mississippi has chosen the latter option. I hope this time is different.

[maroonmania]

I honestly don't see it getting changed anytime soon. The sports that we and Ole Miss can host are niche sports that don't generate a lot of money. Softball, baseball, women's basketball, tennis. We're also run by a backwards good ole boy system that would probably put it to a popular vote and then find a way to rig it by suppressing votes. They'd probably close polling stations, so people would have to wait in line for hours to vote. Mississippi has a terrible history with voter suppression, so there's no need to think that would change.

I'm just floored that there would be that many people that would care what is or is not on the state flag anyway. I mean when ZERO of your public institutions in the state are willing to fly the flag along with a lot of the larger municipalities, I mean what is anyone's point in wanting to keep the darn thing? At least there is something concrete to be gained by changing it (at least in the sports world) while the only reason not to is pride I guess where folks can say, hey, we showed them.

BTW, I figure the next step if the flag doesn't change is that MS public universities will not be allowed to have their teams even participate in NCAA events. Sort of a reverse of 1963, instead of MS refusing to participate, the NCAA won't allow MS to participate.

[Dawg2003]

I'm just floored that there would be that many people that would care what is or is not on the state flag anyway. I mean when ZERO of your public institutions in the state are willing to fly the flag along with a lot of the larger municipalities, I mean what is anyone's point in wanting to keep the darn thing? At least there is something concrete to be gained by changing it (at least in the sports world) while the only reason not to is pride I guess where folks can say, hey, we showed them.

BTW, I figure the next step if the flag doesn't change is that MS public universities will not be allowed to have their teams even participate in NCAA events. Sort of a reverse of 1963, instead of MS refusing to participate, the NCAA won't allow MS to participate.

The people that want to keep it must be redneck bubbas who don't want muh libruls tellin' them what to do. There are also people who romanticize the old South and think the Civil War was just about "keeping our way of life." It's no wonder people make fun of us.

But yeah, I agree that it's going the way of us being kicked out of the SEC or not allowed to be part of the NCAA.

[Dawgology]

Mississippi as a whole is so ******* stupid and backward. I hate it just as much as i love it.

We had a moment a month back where changing the flag would have sent a message of hope that would reflect across the US. The state that is a symbol for America's tragic, racist past could have been the last state to remove the confederate flag and still been praised for it. Doing something like that and offering a statement of how Mississippi stands with it's brothers and sisters regardless of race, gender, or religion would have been so powerful.

Instead...Mississippi will be forced into it kicking and screaming. Probably will sue the NCAA over it. We will all look like a bunch of racist, redneck fools because of our "leaders".

What a bunch of clowns we have running this state.

[SheltonChoked]

That period was a little more complicated than that; I'm not a historian but this country was founded on states rights. After losing the war with much loss and humiliation, Abe and others after sought to bring the country together as one. The reconstruction period was tough and maybe not handled well at times. The confederate statue thing was also an attempt to bring the country together as one and move on.

The flag will get changed which I am for at this point. Flag doesn't really mean anything except now penalizing MS sports and schools and students, etc.

You should have stopped at "I'm not a historian" Read what the the guys that wrote the Mississippi Constitution said about what their purpose was. It was not to "bring the country together" It was to prevent Blacks from being part of this country. That's why the statues were raised and the flag was chosen...

[smootness]

The confederate statue thing was also an attempt to bring the country together as one and move on.

This is not true at all. Almost all of those statues were erected solely to intimidate blacks or as a message that white supremacy wasn't going anywhere.

[Liverpooldawg]

You should have stopped at "I'm not a historian" Read what the the guys that wrote the Mississippi Constitution said about what their purpose was. It was not to "bring the country together" It was to prevent Blacks from being part of this country. That's why the statues were raised and the flag was chosen...

I agree about the flag, they made no bones about it. The statues are more complicated. You see very similar ones in the north. Those were to honor the soldiers who fought. Those in the South were too. Everybody seems to want to equate statues with history. They aren't the same thing. History shows that monuments and memorials always exist at the current generation's pleasure. You can erase statues, the history will still exist.

[Liverpooldawg]

This is not true at all. Almost all of those statues were erected solely to intimidate blacks or as a message that white supremacy wasn't going anywhere.

It's not that clear cut.

[Johnson85]

I'm just floored that there would be that many people that would care what is or is not on the state flag anyway. I mean when ZERO of your public institutions in the state are willing to fly the flag along with a lot of the larger municipalities, I mean what is anyone's point in wanting to keep the darn thing? At least there is something concrete to be gained by changing it (at least in the sports world) while the only reason not to is pride I guess where folks can say, hey, we showed them.

BTW, I figure the next step if the flag doesn't change is that MS public universities will not be allowed to have their teams even participate in NCAA events. Sort of a reverse of 1963, instead of MS refusing to participate, the NCAA won't allow MS to participate.

Sayre's law states, in a formulation quoted by Charles Philip Issawi: "In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake." By way of corollary, it adds: "That is why academic politics are so bitter." Sayre's law is named after Wallace Stanley Sayre (1905?1972), U.S. political scientist and professor at Columbia University.

It's why as the US has gotten better and better about stamping out injustice, we have more and more people whose lives and livelihoods are dedicated to fighting injustice.

This is just the same thing from a different direction.

[Dawg2003]

Mississippi as a whole is so ******* stupid and backward. I hate it just as much as i love it.

We had a moment a month back where changing the flag would have sent a message of hope that would reflect across the US. The state that is a symbol for America's tragic, racist past could have been the last state to remove the confederate flag and still been praised for it. Doing something like that and offering a statement of how Mississippi stands with it's brothers and sisters regardless of race, gender, or religion would have been so powerful.

Instead...Mississippi will be forced into it kicking and screaming. Probably will sue the NCAA over it. We will all look like a bunch of racist, redneck fools because of our "leaders".

What a bunch of clowns we have running this state.

I feel the same way. I love my state but damn, it's so backwards sometimes. We aren't even reporting Covid numbers anymore because we have ancient software. You can't make this stuff up.

[MedDawg]

It's not to penalize the universities, it's to penalize the state. The universities are collateral damage.

Years ago the NFL took a Super Bowl away from Tempe because Arizona didn't pass the MLK holiday. This is nothing compared to that.

I mean to the country, not to me. Losing the regionals is a lot bigger to me than Arizona losing a Super Bowl. Losing MSU regionals is bigger to me than if New Orleans lost a Super Bowl.

[BrunswickDawg]

That period was a little more complicated than that; I'm not a historian but this country was founded on states rights. After losing the war with much loss and humiliation, Abe and others after sought to bring the country together as one. The reconstruction period was tough and maybe not handled well at times. The confederate statue thing was also an attempt to bring the country together as one and move on.

The flag will get changed which I am for at this point. Flag doesn't really mean anything except now penalizing MS sports and schools and students, etc.

States Rights was a component, but by no means was it even the dominant belief among the founders. The American experiment in governance was unlike anything else at the time, and to a degree still is. The intent was to strike a balance between the will of the people, the rights of the states, and centralized national government. The founders attempted to create a structure with the "states" the primary focus via the Articles of Confederation. It failed miserably and was abandoned after only 7 years. The Constitution delineates powers, but clearly places the Federal Government above the states via Article VI, and only cedes power to states as decided by the Federal Government. Of course - that was not without controversy, or without challenges by the States. Almost immediately, states tested the power of the Federal government - whether it was the Alien and Sedition Acts or the debates between early republicans vs. federalists, or Nullification. The Constitution binds the States and the Federal government together - but ultimately the Fed wins out most of the time because the Constitution is built to allow that to happen.

[Johnson85]

States Rights was a component, but by no means was it even the dominant belief among the founders. The American experiment in governance was unlike anything else at the time, and to a degree still is. The intent was to strike a balance between the will of the people, the rights of the states, and centralized national government. The founders attempted to create a structure with the "states" the primary focus via the Articles of Confederation. It failed miserably and was abandoned after only 7 years. The Constitution delineates powers, but clearly places the Federal Government above the states via Article VI, and only cedes power to states as decided by the Federal Government. Of course - that was not without controversy, or without challenges by the States. Almost immediately, states tested the power of the Federal government - whether it was the Alien and Sedition Acts or the debates between early republicans vs. federalists, or Nullification. The Constitution binds the States and the Federal government together - but ultimately the Fed wins out most of the time because the Constitution is built to allow that to happen.

This is incorrect. It took a while for the constitutional structure to be flipped from where powers were presumed to be held by the states unless specifically provided otherwise to one where powers were presumed to be held by the federal government unless specifically proscribed. While there was disagreement between the founders as to just how much power the national government should have, the ones that favored a limited federal government won, at least nominally. While the supreme court has more or less interpreted it out of the constitution, we still nominally have a federal government of limited, enumerated powers with every authority not specifically delegated to the federal government held by the states or people.

We still had a real distinction between intrastate and interstate commerce until the great depression. Until the series of obamacare cases, it was still a live question as to whether there were meaningful limits on the federal government's powers under the commerce clause besides those specifically proscribed in the bill of rights.

[BrunswickDawg]

This is incorrect. It took a while for the constitutional structure to be flipped from where powers were presumed to be held by the states unless specifically provided otherwise to one where powers were presumed to be held by the federal government unless specifically proscribed. While there was disagreement between the founders as to just how much power the national government should have, the ones that favored a limited federal government won, at least nominally. While the supreme court has more or less interpreted it out of the constitution, we still nominally have a federal government of limited, enumerated powers with every authority not specifically delegated to the federal government held by the states or people.

We still had a real distinction between intrastate and interstate commerce until the great depression. Until the series of obamacare cases, it was still a live question as to whether there were meaningful limits on the federal government's powers under the commerce clause besides those specifically proscribed in the bill of rights.

Your statements back up what I am saying. You are saying that outside forces (Supreme Court interpretation, new laws, Obamacare) are the cause of us shifting to a more centralized government. I'm saying that from the beginning, the Constitution was written in a way that while starting with limited, enumerated powers, the door was left specifically and intentionally open to give more powers to the central government - at the choosing of the majority. That power of choice still rests with the people - albeit the choices we make regularly push us further toward a more powerful central government. The flip side of it is that the power of the majority still has the right and authority to remove those powers that have been ceded to the central government (theoretically). As a people, we seem to elect people who crave and believe in the power of governing as they see fit, not as a voice of those they represent. And that is not an exclusive held by either party.

[Johnson85]

Your statements back up what I am saying. You are saying that outside forces (Supreme Court interpretation, new laws, Obamacare) are the cause of us shifting to a more centralized government. I'm saying that from the beginning, the Constitution was written in a way that while starting with limited, enumerated powers, the door was left specifically and intentionally open to give more powers to the central government - at the choosing of the majority.
That is the opposite of the saying the federal government "only cedes power to states as decided by the Federal Government". The Federal government was only given certain, enumerated powers, and then there were ten amendments immediately saying, "these are specific things we are worried about that the federal government, but make no mistake, we are just listing these out b/c we know these are things corrupt governments like to do, it's not that we are acknowleding that the federal government's power is unlimited except when we say otherwise."

There were people worried about judicial supremacy, and there were people worried about imperial presidencies, but I don't think any of them properly predicted that the legislature would just cede a lot of its power to the executive b/c it was politically easier to rail against the executive than to go on record with votes, and I don't t hink they predicted that the executive woudl just voluntarily cede its authority to the judicial branch, where we have this inverted structure where instead of the legislature being 1st among equals, it's the judiciary that's 1st among equals (or maybe just supreme), and then the exeuctive and then the legislature.



That power of choice still rests with the people - albeit the choices we make regularly push us further toward a more powerful central government. The flip side of it is that the power of the majority still has the right and authority to remove those powers that have been ceded to the central government (theoretically). As a people, we seem to elect people who crave and believe in the power of governing as they see fit, not as a voice of those they represent. And that is not an exclusive held by either party. Maybe theoretically. It's not clear exactly how they can do that short of the threat of tarring and feathering elected representatives and judges.

[SheltonChoked]

I agree about the flag, they made no bones about it. The statues are more complicated. You see very similar ones in the north. Those were to honor the soldiers who fought. Those in the South were too. Everybody seems to want to equate statues with history. They aren't the same thing. History shows that monuments and memorials always exist at the current generation's pleasure. You can erase statues, the history will still exist.

I agree. You really have to see what, why, and when the statues were placed.

Some are easy to know what to do with. Some are harder.

Some need to come down ( like the one that was in new Orleans that was put up to remind everyone of white supremacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Liberty_Place_Monument), some need to be moved, some should remain.

[Political Hack]

I am of the opinion that if you want to keep the current flag it's probably because you're racist. That's harsh. I get it, but there's no legitimate reason to keep it. See Liverpool's post above. It was meant as a form of intimidation. It's reprehensible that it's still up in 2020.

[KOdawg1]

I am of the opinion that if you want to keep the current flag it's probably because you're racist. That's harsh. I get it, but there's no legitimate reason to keep it. See Liverpool's post above. It was meant as a form of intimidation. It's reprehensible that it's still up in 2020.

Not harsh at all. There is literally no valid reason to keep it. Anyone pushing back on it is either openly racist or a closet racist. Not sure which one is worse

[DownwardDawg]

Not harsh at all. There is literally no valid reason to keep it. Anyone pushing back on it is either openly racist or a closet racist. Not sure which one is worse

So what if you’re black and you don’t support changing the flag? Asking for a friend.

[KOdawg1]

So what if you’re black and you don’t support changing the flag? Asking for a friend.
For every black person that doesn't want to change the flag, I can find you 100 who do.

[DownwardDawg]

For every black person that doesn't want to change the flag, I can find you 100 who do.

Oh no doubt. That wasn’t my point. But one of my closest friends is black. He’s married to a black woman. They have kids. He’s well educated and makes a lot of money. He’s blown away about all of this and could care less about the State flag. I just thought I would ask if he’s a racist. I need to know if he can’t be trusted. It’s all so confusing these days. Hard to keep up.

[KOdawg1]

Oh no doubt. That wasn?t my point. But one of my closest friends is black. He?s married to a black woman. They have kids. He?s well educated and makes a lot of money. He?s blown away about all of this and could care less about the State flag. I just thought I would ask if he?s a racist. I need to know if he can?t be trusted. It?s all so confusing these days. Hard to keep up.
I didn't say people who don't care were racist. I said people who pushed back on it are. Is he actively advocating for us to keep the flag? I didn't think so.

[SheltonChoked]

Oh no doubt. That wasn?t my point. But one of my closest friends is black. He?s married to a black woman. They have kids. He?s well educated and makes a lot of money. He?s blown away about all of this and could care less about the State flag. I just thought I would ask if he?s a racist. I need to know if he can?t be trusted. It?s all so confusing these days. Hard to keep up.

Read to him what the guys that chose the flag said about him. It was not covered in my Mississippi history class. I bet he doesn't know.

That should help.

[DownwardDawg]

I didn't say people who don't care were racist. I said people who pushed back on it are. Is he actively advocating for us to keep the flag? I didn't think so.

No, he doesn’t advocate to keep the flag either. He works for a living, takes care of his family, and enjoys life. He’s a great guy and doesn’t let people make him think he’s inferior. He’s way too smart for that.

[sandwolf]

I am of the opinion that if you want to keep the current flag it's probably because you're racist. That's harsh. I get it, but there's no legitimate reason to keep it. See Liverpool's post above. It was meant as a form of intimidation. It's reprehensible that it's still up in 2020.

I'm sure that some of it is just good old fashioned racism, but I think the majority of people that want to keep it are just too self absorbed and stubborn to get past the idea of outsiders calling the shots in their state. They would rather damage the state on their own terms than move it forward on someone else's. Basically, they're cutting off their nose to spite their face.

[KOdawg1]

I'm sure that some of it is just good old fashioned racism, but I think the majority of people that want to keep it are just too self absorbed and stubborn to get past the idea of outsiders calling the shots in their state. They would rather damage the state on their own terms than move it forward on someone else's. Basically, they're cutting off their nose to spite their face.
So they don't like being told what to do?

Kinda like a .... rebel?

[Political Hack]

I'm sure that some of it is just good old fashioned racism, but I think the majority of people that want to keep it are just too self absorbed and stubborn to get past the idea of outsiders calling the shots in their state. They would rather damage the state on their own terms than move it forward on someone else's. Basically, they're cutting off their nose to spite their face.

I can see that too. It's like when you hear someone call the union army the army of "northern aggressors" or say the civil war had nothing to do with slavery. It's completely disingenuous and makes no sense from a justice, business, or social standpoint. It's bad for the state. Period. Change it. Even if it's not racist, change it because it makes the state look bad. I can't understand why people are resistant. There's literally no valid justification for keeping it.