Atlanta has little to no police presence now

[starkvegasdawg]

Hearing entire shifts walked off the job or refused to come in. I can't 100% verify this, but I went on the Atlanta police scanner and in 15 minutes I've heard one call over the radio.

[Dawgbite]

Want some new stuff? Be there and back by early am tomorrow.

[DownwardDawg]

Things are getting really bad.

[3rdGen]

Want some new stuff? Be there and back by early am tomorrow.

Gibson Les Paul.....any color will do and a marshall orange crunch stack in any configuration.

Thanks and COD!

[Mobile Bay]

Let me know when IKEA has fallen. I want to redo my kitchen.

[RocketDawg]

The official statement denies it, but reality seems to be that what you said is true.

[RocketDawg]

Let me know when IKEA has fallen. I want to redo my kitchen.

Ikea stuff falls all the time unless anchored to the wall ....

[R2Dawg]

Things are getting really bad.

Agree. Some folks need to get a grip and get control of our society or it may never return to sanity.

[Dawgology]

Come on you guys...just send social workers and psychologists. They will take care of it!**

[The Federalist Engineer]

The foreign students at Georgia Tech were scared already, now they may never come back. Sad to hear about the ATL.

I knew several Indians, Pakis, and Malaysian graduate students mugged on Campus. The internationals sometimes don’t have cars so they walk more than Americans. The particular kids I knew thought they were mugged because they “looked muslim”. They blamed Bush.

[Dawgology]

Agree. Some folks need to get a grip and get control of our society or it may never return to sanity.

Atlanta PD is just the first PD to do this I’m hearing rumbles of this all over the country. Just not worth it anymore. Good luck to everyone and when the military steps in to take over law enforcement...well...they don’t have a use of force continuum that they use.

[Cowbell]

Yep - they are trained to bust skulls. And it's about to be time for that.
This police officer will get acquitted....and when he is, that town will burn to the ground. It's all part of the plan.

[Maroonthirteen]

I listened to ATL zone 5 and 6 scanner. I heard one call for a broken leg in 10 minutes of listening. The rest ... static.

I switched to Shelby County (Memphis) just for a comparison. I heard (nearly) none stop radio traffic. I heard two calls for reports of shots fired (by citizens) in 10 minutes.

[starkvegasdawg]

I listened to ATL zone 5 and 6 scanner. I heard one call for a broken leg in 10 minutes of listening. The rest ... static.

I switched to Shelby County (Memphis) just for a comparison. I heard (nearly) none stop radio traffic. I heard two calls for reports of shots fired (by citizens) in 10 minutes.

Need to find one for Chicago.

[99jc]

I am going to be straight up. As a Federal officer anyone who points any weapon at me will meet his maker real quick because MY LIFE MATTERS.

[dantheman4248]

It's almost like people here are ignoring the facts that the DA found where the cop shot the man twice in the back on the ground and kicked him. Almost like there's firing to subdue and continuing to fire kill. Almost like those are two different things.

Atlanta PD are showing you the real sad truth. ~85,000 out of 800,000 cops in this country have had excessive force or the like reported against them. The silent majority of good apples are spoiled by those bad apples and the enabling behaviors. The NYPD crybaby and all of Atlanta PD show what they really care about. They don't protect and serve. If that's what it was ever about then they'd have nothing to fear. It's about submitting to the authority of the law. Period.

[dantheman4248]

https://twitter.com/bagwell40394641/status/1272099956724203520?s=21

That video is for the crowd that only sees what they wanna see. Man was still alive on the ground. No CPR being administered "immediately." Kicking the man while he's dying.

It's clear he was trained to see civilians as beneath him.

[Santiago]

https://twitter.com/bagwell40394641/status/1272099956724203520?s=21

That video is for the crowd that only sees what they wanna see. Man was still alive on the ground. No CPR being administered "immediately." Kicking the man while he's dying.

It's clear he was trained to see civilians as beneath him.

Well, there also was no kicking in the video as the DA has claimed. Also, the GBI is still conducting and investigation, and said they were surprised the DA laid charges already and the DA had not consulted with the GBI on their information so far in the investigation. To me in the video it looks like the cops are collecting themselves for just a moment to follow procedure on what to do next. They did just have to wrestle with the guy, chase him, and get shot at by a deadly weapon.
The victim resisted arrest because he is out on parole for Felony Cruelty to his own children. He knew he would go back to jail.

Are you and T Bag working with the GBI and already given them the results of your final conclusion on your investigation? ***

[MrKotter]

It's almost like people here are ignoring the facts that the DA found where the cop shot the man twice in the back on the ground and kicked him. Almost like there's firing to subdue and continuing to fire kill. Almost like those are two different things.

Atlanta PD are showing you the real sad truth. ~85,000 out of 800,000 cops in this country have had excessive force or the like reported against them. The silent majority of good apples are spoiled by those bad apples and the enabling behaviors. The NYPD crybaby and all of Atlanta PD show what they really care about. They don't protect and serve. If that's what it was ever about then they'd have nothing to fear. It's about submitting to the authority of the law. Period.

It's like you ignored the whole video. Do you not think people lie about their treatment by police? Not all, obviously, but a lot do. One day you'll join reality and quit living in fairytale land

[msbulldog]

The DA is up for re-election and has some type of corruption thing going on his own, he's trying to look good.

[dantheman4248]

You know that they haven't released the video that the DA is referencing correct? The start of this video is a split second after the kick.

Collecting themselves? These men signed up to ****ing protect and serve in the line of duty. You have someone dying right in front of you and you need to be on the clock COLLECTING YOURSELF??? Holy ducking shit. Imagine a doctor getting an emergency patient and taking two minutes to collect themselves while standing over their body as they die. **** outta here.

If you put on that badge and pull out that gun, you better not need time to ****ing collect yourself. What the **** are they training at this point.

Honestly I don't really get anyone who supports that. All that's being asked is to not use excessive escalating force. Stop killing people. And the police respond to those protests by upping the use of force and killing more people. That cop is not the judge. That cop is not the jury of his peers. So why the hell is mr. executioner given free reign over what you can do in that situation?

It's like you people just want to spit in the face of the constitution and the only reason I can find is hate. I really don't see any other reason. You want to just forego the 5th, the 8th, and the 14th amendments and think it's totally justified because a man with his back turned is shooting a taser that only works close range and was apparently out of charge (or at most had 1 left.) The man was 0 threat to lives any more. He could have been apprehended later easily and given his due process. Instead Judge Dredd decided to be JJ&E and took his life. Plain and simple.

[starkvegasdawg]

You know that they haven't released the video that the DA is referencing correct? The start of this video is a split second after the kick.

Collecting themselves? These men signed up to ****ing protect and serve in the line of duty. You have someone dying right in front of you and you need to be on the clock COLLECTING YOURSELF??? Holy ducking shit. Imagine a doctor getting an emergency patient and taking two minutes to collect themselves while standing over their body as they die. **** outta here.

If you put on that badge and pull out that gun, you better not need time to ****ing collect yourself. What the **** are they training at this point.

Honestly I don't really get anyone who supports that. All that's being asked is to not use excessive escalating force. Stop killing people. And the police respond to those protests by upping the use of force and killing more people. That cop is not the judge. That cop is not the jury of his peers. So why the hell is mr. executioner given free reign over what you can do in that situation?

It's like you people just want to spit in the face of the constitution and the only reason I can find is hate. I really don't see any other reason. You want to just forego the 5th, the 8th, and the 14th amendments and think it's totally justified because a man with his back turned is shooting a taser that only works close range and was apparently out of charge (or at most had 1 left.) The man was 0 threat to lives any more. He could have been apprehended later easily and given his due process. Instead Judge Dredd decided to be JJ&E and took his life. Plain and simple.

Spend a day dealing with what they deal with in this environment and get back to me. The George Floyd death was completely uncalled for. They get what they deserve. But when it comes down to split second decisions in an Adrenalin fueled event then I'm giving the cop every benefit of the doubt. It's easy as hell to Monday morning quarterback these things in front of the tv in your den. Much different in the heat of the moment when you're fighting for your life.

[FISHDAWG]

Well, there also was no kicking in the video as the DA has claimed. Also, the GBI is still conducting and investigation, and said they were surprised the DA laid charges already and the DA had not consulted with the GBI on their information so far in the investigation. To me in the video it looks like the cops are collecting themselves for just a moment to follow procedure on what to do next. They did just have to wrestle with the guy, chase him, and get shot at by a deadly weapon.
The victim resisted arrest because he is out on parole for Felony Cruelty to his own children. He knew he would go back to jail.

Are you and T Bag working with the GBI and already given them the results of your final conclusion on your investigation? ***

ATL govt is not to be trusted or believed most of the time and now the city council isn't supporting them like they should ... The night shift had an exorbitant amount of sick call-ins last night as it looks like the PD is trying to push back .... they authorize the carrying of firearms for cops and then don't support them when they have to use them .... they will only be able to recruit a lesser qualified candidate as the better folks simply won't work for that kind of pay under those circumstances ... the city govt is actually making things worse down the road with this action IMO ...... I guess next they will take away the guns and issue them a switch ... from my seat it appears the bad guys are winning

[dantheman4248]

Spend a day dealing with what they deal with in this environment and get back to me.


Spend a day in Philando Castille's shoes. An upstanding citizen who did everything right, alerted the cop to the presence of a firearm and where it was. It only took 40 something times being pulled over for him to get a tad too comfortable and forget he was black for a second as he reached for his wallet.

His murderer was acquitted.

These cops are specifically trained to deal with these situations and you give them more leeway than the citizens that have no training and the cops are meant to protect and serve. Giving the cop the benefit of the doubt every time? Yea, **** no. This is the job they signed up for. If you can't assess properly what is and isn't a threat to your life, then you are bad at your job and should not be carrying around a lethal weapon. With great power comes great responsibility. These people wanna be seen as heroes then there you go. Be the hero.

[confucius say]

You know that they haven't released the video that the DA is referencing correct? The start of this video is a split second after the kick.

Collecting themselves? These men signed up to ****ing protect and serve in the line of duty. You have someone dying right in front of you and you need to be on the clock COLLECTING YOURSELF??? Holy ducking shit. Imagine a doctor getting an emergency patient and taking two minutes to collect themselves while standing over their body as they die. **** outta here.

If you put on that badge and pull out that gun, you better not need time to ****ing collect yourself. What the **** are they training at this point.

Honestly I don't really get anyone who supports that. All that's being asked is to not use excessive escalating force. Stop killing people. And the police respond to those protests by upping the use of force and killing more people. That cop is not the judge. That cop is not the jury of his peers. So why the hell is mr. executioner given free reign over what you can do in that situation?

It's like you people just want to spit in the face of the constitution and the only reason I can find is hate. I really don't see any other reason. You want to just forego the 5th, the 8th, and the 14th amendments and think it's totally justified because a man with his back turned is shooting a taser that only works close range and was apparently out of charge (or at most had 1 left.) The man was 0 threat to lives any more. He could have been apprehended later easily and given his due process. Instead Judge Dredd decided to be JJ&E and took his life. Plain and simple.

Police aren't doctors.

Federal law nor the constitution requires an officer to render medical care personally. I wish the officer would, but he is not required to as long as he seeks medical care for the victim (call for ambulance).

If the officer committed murder, he will be convicted. I would need to know the whole story before judging. If it is true that the victim pointed a taser at an officer while going away from the officer like the atl newspaper said, then the shooting was lawful. Cops are always allowed to go up another force level than that of the other person.

[Santiago]

You know that they haven't released the video that the DA is referencing correct? The start of this video is a split second after the kick.

Collecting themselves? These men signed up to ****ing protect and serve in the line of duty. You have someone dying right in front of you and you need to be on the clock COLLECTING YOURSELF??? Holy ducking shit. Imagine a doctor getting an emergency patient and taking two minutes to collect themselves while standing over their body as they die. **** outta here.

If you put on that badge and pull out that gun, you better not need time to ****ing collect yourself. What the **** are they training at this point.

Honestly I don't really get anyone who supports that. All that's being asked is to not use excessive escalating force. Stop killing people. And the police respond to those protests by upping the use of force and killing more people. That cop is not the judge. That cop is not the jury of his peers. So why the hell is mr. executioner given free reign over what you can do in that situation?

It's like you people just want to spit in the face of the constitution and the only reason I can find is hate. I really don't see any other reason. You want to just forego the 5th, the 8th, and the 14th amendments and think it's totally justified because a man with his back turned is shooting a taser that only works close range and was apparently out of charge (or at most had 1 left.) The man was 0 threat to lives any more. He could have been apprehended later easily and given his due process. Instead Judge Dredd decided to be JJ&E and took his life. Plain and simple.

The DA does not have any video of the kick, or it would be released. He actually said "a witness" claims they kicked.
Two weeks ago the same DA said using a Taser in Georgia is a deadly weapon.
So the case will be closed or not convicted because the police in that state were being attached by a deadly weapon.

I would love to see how you handle and defend yourself as a cop if a guy did all that to you and then aimed the taser at your head, while you are running at him and you are not sure what he has.
Your mind is made up. You heard what you wanted to hear, and not very impartial.

The DA has come out before GBI has completed their investigation and the DA never consulted with them.
The cops followed procedure being fired upon by the guy.....so just a suggestion, do not grab anything off the cop and try to fire it at them and you should make it just fine.
Another suggestion - don't beat your kids and go to jail, and while on parole fight with cops while aiming a weapon at them.

[DownwardDawg]

Police aren't doctors.

Federal law nor the constitution requires an officer to render medical care personally. I wish the officer would, but he is not required to as long as he seeks medical care for the victim (call for ambulance).

If the officer committed murder, he will be convicted. I would need to know the whole story before judging. If it is true that the victim pointed a taser at an officer while going away from the officer like the atl newspaper said, then the shooting was lawful. Cops are always allowed to go up another force level than that of the other person.

The video clearly shows the criminal point the taser that he took from the officer at said officer while running away. I guess the officers were supposed to let the criminal tase one officer, render him defenseless and then grab his gun and shoot him. Then the 2nd officer would be able to shoot and kill the dude. I guess that’s how it’s supposed to go down now.

I don’t see how any intelligent human would sign up to be a police officer these days. The quality of the officers on police forces is about to drop dramatically. That’s going to increase these deadly confrontations. JMO

[Jarius]

Good for the Atlanta PD. It's time for some people to get their wish and find out just how ignorant they truly are.

[starkvegasdawg]

Spend a day in Philando Castille's shoes. An upstanding citizen who did everything right, alerted the cop to the presence of a firearm and where it was. It only took 40 something times being pulled over for him to get a tad too comfortable and forget he was black for a second as he reached for his wallet.

His murderer was acquitted.

These cops are specifically trained to deal with these situations and you give them more leeway than the citizens that have no training and the cops are meant to protect and serve. Giving the cop the benefit of the doubt every time? Yea, **** no. This is the job they signed up for. If you can't assess properly what is and isn't a threat to your life, then you are bad at your job and should not be carrying around a lethal weapon. With great power comes great responsibility. These people wanna be seen as heroes then there you go. Be the hero.

Compare the instances of that based on the number where everything is done right and give me the percentage. Now compare that percentage to any other job in the world. And don't give me they signed up for it BS. Signing up to want to make the community a better place is not cart Blanche to be taken advantage of, assaulted, spit on, every move micro managed by those that hate me and want me to fail.

[confucius say]

The video clearly shows the criminal point the taser that he took from the officer at said officer while running away. I guess the officers were supposed to let the criminal tase one officer, render him defenseless and then grab his gun and shoot him. Then the 2nd officer would be able to shoot and kill the dude. I guess that’s how it’s supposed to go down now.

I don’t see how any intelligent human would sign up to be a police officer these days. The quality of the officers on police forces is about to drop dramatically. That’s going to increase these deadly confrontations. JMO

Got ya. I haven't seen the video.

[NWADAWG]

These cops are specifically trained to deal with these situations and you give them more leeway than the citizens that have no training and the cops are meant to protect and serve..

Citizens need to be trained not to attack a police officer? Not to take an officer's weapon? Not to fire the weapon at the officer?

I've said this before and I'll say it again (May have been on the other site). If you attack a cop, try to take a cop's weapon, or threaten the life of a cop with a weapon. YOU WILL GET SHOT.

For those of you who aren't trained in how to not attack a cop, make sure you understand the above statement.

[DEDawg]

You know that they haven't released the video that the DA is referencing correct? The start of this video is a split second after the kick.

Collecting themselves? These men signed up to ****ing protect and serve in the line of duty. You have someone dying right in front of you and you need to be on the clock COLLECTING YOURSELF??? Holy ducking shit. Imagine a doctor getting an emergency patient and taking two minutes to collect themselves while standing over their body as they die. **** outta here.

If you put on that badge and pull out that gun, you better not need time to ****ing collect yourself. What the **** are they training at this point.

Honestly I don't really get anyone who supports that. All that's being asked is to not use excessive escalating force. Stop killing people. And the police respond to those protests by upping the use of force and killing more people. That cop is not the judge. That cop is not the jury of his peers. So why the hell is mr. executioner given free reign over what you can do in that situation?

It's like you people just want to spit in the face of the constitution and the only reason I can find is hate. I really don't see any other reason. You want to just forego the 5th, the 8th, and the 14th amendments and think it's totally justified because a man with his back turned is shooting a taser that only works close range and was apparently out of charge (or at most had 1 left.) The man was 0 threat to lives any more. He could have been apprehended later easily and given his due process. Instead Judge Dredd decided to be JJ&E and took his life. Plain and simple.

I?m not here to belittle your point above. But I want your honest opinion. I?d like for you to watch this video from the 1:00 to 2:45 mark. Does that change your opinion at all? I know you?re most likely going to come back with the minor differences in the ATL video and this one and say how they are completely different, but would like you to attempt to understand what that officer in Atlanta felt as he was chasing a suspect in the heat of the moment and was fired upon with a weapon. https://www.mcall.com/news/police/mc-nws-route-33-state-police-trooper-shooting-video-released-20180706-story.html?outputType=amp

[Dawgology]

Spend a day in Philando Castille's shoes. An upstanding citizen who did everything right, alerted the cop to the presence of a firearm and where it was. It only took 40 something times being pulled over for him to get a tad too comfortable and forget he was black for a second as he reached for his wallet.

His murderer was acquitted.

These cops are specifically trained to deal with these situations and you give them more leeway than the citizens that have no training and the cops are meant to protect and serve. Giving the cop the benefit of the doubt every time? Yea, **** no. This is the job they signed up for. If you can't assess properly what is and isn't a threat to your life, then you are bad at your job and should not be carrying around a lethal weapon. With great power comes great responsibility. These people wanna be seen as heroes then there you go. Be the hero.

This is actually a great example that you have pulled up. I hear this very often. So let's take a look at your example.

There are calls to defund and dissolve the police. Please explain to me how it is 800,000 police officer's fault that that murderer was acquitted? No...officer...can...tell...a...judge...how...to.. .rule...a...case. I don't know ****ing HOW to make it any clearer. People are rioting and protesting against police officers because they are an easy target. They are the strawman that the legal system has set up to blind you from the truth. Law enforcement officers don't keep people in jail...the legal system does. Law enforcement officers don't acquit murderers...the legal system does. This happens between judges, prosecutors, and defense attorneys and it has absolutely zero...none...nada...oversight. Literally, they can do whatever they want and no one can do anything about it...not even the highest ranking officer in the county. Courts are untouchable.

People are protesting the wrong thing and they don't even see it. Remove police officers and replace them with the military and then you won't even have a say at the street level regarding what happens to people. At that point (and it's coming sooner than you think) there will be real...TRUE...oppression. It will be way more than 8 unarmed black men and 20 unarmed white men killed over 4 years. This is not conspiracy theory I'm just giving you cold, hard truth.

All of these folks crying and screaming and protesting about police reform need to be protesting about JUDICIAL reform. The legal system in America is BROKEN. You can't see the forest for the trees, my dude.

In Brooke's case there are several things he could have done to not be shot by the police:

1. He could have not been drinking and driving. He would have never been in the situation.

2. He couldn have been drinking and driving but then he could have not fought the police. He would have never been shot.

3. He could have been drinking and driving, fought the police and NOT stolen a taser. He would have never been shot.

4. He could have been drinking and driving, fought the police, stolen the taser, not SHOT A ****ING STOLEN TASER at the police. He would have never been shot.

There is no evidence of a kick only heresay. Even if he did he could have been kicking the weapon out of the subjects hand or checking to see if they are alive. To render aid you have to return to your vehicle to get your little first aid kit which won't do much for a bullet wound but first you have to clear the suspect to make sure they don't have another weapon. 2 minutes isn't that bad of a response time. Especially after a fight, followed with a foot chase, followed by getting shot at. To avoid getting shot by police see the above steps.

In regards to complaints against officers: my agency (mid-sized) sees about 5-10 complaints per weeks. It's one of the MAIN reasons they started wearing body cameras because we were having so many false complaints that were usually based on "brutality" and/or "bad attitude" complaints against first responders. We were averaging in the 20's BEFORE cameras. The drop off may have been two-fold. 1: officers are more aware of their actions due to the camera and 2: citizens are more aware of their actions and realize they can't just lie to get an officer in trouble.

Of those 5-10 per week they are ALL investigated. In the past year four....FOUR...were actually found to be of substance and all four centered around an officer just being "ugly" to a citizen and we felt he or she overstepped what was professional. These usually end with re-training and/or suspension. After three warranted complaints (depending on severity) you can be fired. ALL OF THE OTHERS were outright lies and/or someone's feelings hurt because they felt they didn't deserve a ticket. But those complaints stay on an officers record whether or not they were found to be real or not. It's just how it goes per state standards and training policy. I would imagine most officers with several years of experience have dozens of "complaints" on their record. It's actually kind of impressive he had so few given his time on the job.

IN regards to assessing threat here is my assessment. The taser is listed as a deadly weapon by Georgia State Law. A few weeks earlier the Mayor of Atlanta suspended/fired two officers for tasing two college kids. Her reasoning was that the officers used a DEADLY WEAPON on two college kids. So...a taser is a deadly weapon when an officer is holding it and NOT when anyone else is holding it? Ok.....

At any point in the scenario Brooks could have just...stopped. But do you know why he didn't stop? He didn't stop because he was out on parole due to Covid. If you get arrested while on parole you have to serve the entirety of your sentence with no shortened release. He didn't want to go back to jail and he was willing to fight and kill to keep from having to. He wanted to commit crimes against individuals and society and NOT have to pay any type of price.

Let's be honest. That's what this is really all about. Folks don't want cops breathing down their neck. Criminals want to be able to do crime. Vicitimize individuals. And not have to answer for it. And the police suck, right? They give you tickets. That cop that one time had an attitude with you. Or your friend had a run in with one that was a real jackass.

There have been a few (over the past 4 years) instances where an officer killed someone and they were not justified in doing so. Those guys need to go to jail. There have been more than a few instances over that same time where law enforcement was overly brutal with how they handled someone. That needs to be remedied through training and policy reform on many levels. That DOESN'T mean the officer that wrote you a ticket is a killer. I know it hurt your feelings when he did it and it sucks to be in the wrong...but that's part of a law enforcement officers job. That doesn't mean they are bad. Even if a thousand officers have brutalized people in the past 4 years it doesn't mean all officers are bad....it just doesn't. And it is a logical fallacy to even propose to paint such broad strokes based on a handful of events each year.

But let's run this out using another scenario. You will call it a strawman argument but I think it bears similarities. Here is my logic.

All pre-college teachers are bad. They are dirty, evil, pedophiles. We should do away with all teachers in America.

My justification: An average of 12.35% of ALL students between the 8th and 11th grades report unwanted, sexual contact with an educator or teacher while in school. It is approximated that only 5%-6% of these instances are actually reported to social services. Of the THOUSANDS of reported sexual abuse cases against teachers last year in America less than 100 were actually charged with a crime. Teachers unions help coverup stats and instances while also stalling investigations. Currently there are approximately 3.2 million teachers in the US. This means that it's possible that over 395,000 teachers in the US have sexually assaulted a child.

All teachers are pedophiles. All teachers are evil and abuse their power. All teachers should be fired and the school system should be dissolved in America. If not, then all schools should be defunded.

Logic!!

[dantheman4248]

Police aren't doctors.

Federal law nor the constitution requires an officer to render medical care personally. I wish the officer would, but he is not required to as long as he seeks medical care for the victim (call for ambulance).

If the officer committed murder, he will be convicted. I would need to know the whole story before judging. If it is true that the victim pointed a taser at an officer while going away from the officer like the atl newspaper said, then the shooting was lawful. Cops are always allowed to go up another force level than that of the other person.

It took him 2 minutes to even do the steps that you outlined. That's part of the 4 oath of office violations he's charged with.

He fired off 5 shots. 2 hit in the back. 1 hit a bystander's car. Imagine if that harmed someone. All because the cops feared for his life he can shoot recklessly at a man running away. Downward dog said he aimed the taser at his head. The guy was running away. He didn't aim for shit.

Imagine if that was a regular citizen shooting 5 times in self defense and missing 3 with one of those hitting something else. What would your feelings be then?

Point blank this officer acted recklessly. It's amazing that his training on deescalation techniques that he had a month prior led to him to take stupid measures.

@starkvegas I think you missed the glaringly obvious point that I made about Castille. Disproportionately those incidents happen to people of color because why in the hell is this man pulled over that many times other than for DWB?

@Confucius watch the video and don't let outside people tell you what happened

@Downward unplug from your echo chamber

[dantheman4248]

Dawgology. 85,000 police force members have had complaints of excessive force or the ilk levied against them. That's ~10%

As Chris Rock said, police is one of the jobs where you CANT have bad apples. To paraphrase Chris Rock, Imagine if 10% of pilots didn't feel like landing properly and just did whatever they wanted. Would you trust flying?

A few bad apples SPOIL THE BUNCH.

Every step of the way, cops stand up to defend the bad apples.

You even prove it with your stat and you don't get it. All those internal investigations of wrongdoing. We, the police, find no evidence on police wrongdoing.

You even said Castille is a great example.

THE COP WAS FOUND INNOCENT.

Sorry you can't handle the people treating you like people of color are treated. Maybe don't kill people and don't defend killers, idk.

[PMDawg]

It's like you ignored the whole video. Do you not think people lie about their treatment by police? Not all, obviously, but a lot do. One day you'll join reality and quit living in fairytale land

Yeah, this isn't a George Floyd scenario. If you don't want to be assaulted or even killed by the police, follow these simple steps:
1. Don't commit crimes
2. If you choose to ignore #1, Don't resist arrest
3. If you choose to ignore #1 and #2, Don't go for the cop's weapon
4. If in doubt, See #1.

ETA: This works 99.9% of the time. For the 0.1% of the time it doesn't, the officer should be fired and jailed (and almost always is).

[PMDawg]

This is actually a great example that you have pulled up. I hear this very often. So let's take a look at your example.

There are calls to defund and dissolve the police. Please explain to me how it is 800,000 police officer's fault that that murderer was acquitted? No...officer...can...tell...a...judge...how...to.. .rule...a...case. I don't know ****ing HOW to make it any clearer. People are rioting and protesting against police officers because they are an easy target. They are the strawman that the legal system has set up to blind you from the truth. Law enforcement officers don't keep people in jail...the legal system does. Law enforcement officers don't acquit murderers...the legal system does. This happens between judges, prosecutors, and defense attorneys and it has absolutely zero...none...nada...oversight. Literally, they can do whatever they want and no one can do anything about it...not even the highest ranking officer in the county. Courts are untouchable.

People are protesting the wrong thing and they don't even see it. Remove police officers and replace them with the military and then you won't even have a say at the street level regarding what happens to people. At that point (and it's coming sooner than you think) there will be real...TRUE...oppression. It will be way more than 8 unarmed black men and 20 unarmed white men killed over 4 years. This is not conspiracy theory I'm just giving you cold, hard truth.

All of these folks crying and screaming and protesting about police reform need to be protesting about JUDICIAL reform. The legal system in America is BROKEN. You can't see the forest for the trees, my dude.

In Brooke's case there are several things he could have done to not be shot by the police:

1. He could have not been drinking and driving. He would have never been in the situation.

2. He couldn have been drinking and driving but then he could have not fought the police. He would have never been shot.

3. He could have been drinking and driving, fought the police and NOT stolen a taser. He would have never been shot.

4. He could have been drinking and driving, fought the police, stolen the taser, not SHOT A ****ING STOLEN TASER at the police. He would have never been shot.

There is no evidence of a kick only heresay. Even if he did he could have been kicking the weapon out of the subjects hand or checking to see if they are alive. To render aid you have to return to your vehicle to get your little first aid kit which won't do much for a bullet wound but first you have to clear the suspect to make sure they don't have another weapon. 2 minutes isn't that bad of a response time. Especially after a fight, followed with a foot chase, followed by getting shot at. To avoid getting shot by police see the above steps.

In regards to complaints against officers: my agency (mid-sized) sees about 5-10 complaints per weeks. It's one of the MAIN reasons they started wearing body cameras because we were having so many false complaints that were usually based on "brutality" and/or "bad attitude" complaints against first responders. We were averaging in the 20's BEFORE cameras. The drop off may have been two-fold. 1: officers are more aware of their actions due to the camera and 2: citizens are more aware of their actions and realize they can't just lie to get an officer in trouble.

Of those 5-10 per week they are ALL investigated. In the past year four....FOUR...were actually found to be of substance and all four centered around an officer just being "ugly" to a citizen and we felt he or she overstepped what was professional. These usually end with re-training and/or suspension. After three warranted complaints (depending on severity) you can be fired. ALL OF THE OTHERS were outright lies and/or someone's feelings hurt because they felt they didn't deserve a ticket. But those complaints stay on an officers record whether or not they were found to be real or not. It's just how it goes per state standards and training policy. I would imagine most officers with several years of experience have dozens of "complaints" on their record. It's actually kind of impressive he had so few given his time on the job.

IN regards to assessing threat here is my assessment. The taser is listed as a deadly weapon by Georgia State Law. A few weeks earlier the Mayor of Atlanta suspended/fired two officers for tasing two college kids. Her reasoning was that the officers used a DEADLY WEAPON on two college kids. So...a taser is a deadly weapon when an officer is holding it and NOT when anyone else is holding it? Ok.....

At any point in the scenario Brooks could have just...stopped. But do you know why he didn't stop? He didn't stop because he was out on parole due to Covid. If you get arrested while on parole you have to serve the entirety of your sentence with no shortened release. He didn't want to go back to jail and he was willing to fight and kill to keep from having to. He wanted to commit crimes against individuals and society and NOT have to pay any type of price.

Let's be honest. That's what this is really all about. Folks don't want cops breathing down their neck. Criminals want to be able to do crime. Vicitimize individuals. And not have to answer for it. And the police suck, right? They give you tickets. That cop that one time had an attitude with you. Or your friend had a run in with one that was a real jackass.

There have been a few (over the past 4 years) instances where an officer killed someone and they were not justified in doing so. Those guys need to go to jail. There have been more than a few instances over that same time where law enforcement was overly brutal with how they handled someone. That needs to be remedied through training and policy reform on many levels. That DOESN'T mean the officer that wrote you a ticket is a killer. I know it hurt your feelings when he did it and it sucks to be in the wrong...but that's part of a law enforcement officers job. That doesn't mean they are bad. Even if a thousand officers have brutalized people in the past 4 years it doesn't mean all officers are bad....it just doesn't. And it is a logical fallacy to even propose to paint such broad strokes based on a handful of events each year.

But let's run this out using another scenario. You will call it a strawman argument but I think it bears similarities. Here is my logic.

All pre-college teachers are bad. They are dirty, evil, pedophiles. We should do away with all teachers in America.

My justification: An average of 12.35% of ALL students between the 8th and 11th grades report unwanted, sexual contact with an educator or teacher while in school. It is approximated that only 5%-6% of these instances are actually reported to social services. Of the THOUSANDS of reported sexual abuse cases against teachers last year in America less than 100 were actually charged with a crime. Teachers unions help coverup stats and instances while also stalling investigations. Currently there are approximately 3.2 million teachers in the US. This means that it's possible that over 395,000 teachers in the US have sexually assaulted a child.

All teachers are pedophiles. All teachers are evil and abuse their power. All teachers should be fired and the school system should be dissolved in America. If not, then all schools should be defunded.

Logic!!

Post of the freaking year man! Kudos. You have to be willfully ignorant to believe the police, as an institution, is evil and/or should be dissolved.

[Dawgology]

Dawgology. 85,000 police force members have had complaints of excessive force or the ilk levied against them. That's ~10%

As Chris Rock said, police is one of the jobs where you CANT have bad apples. To paraphrase Chris Rock, Imagine if 10% of pilots didn't feel like landing properly and just did whatever they wanted. Would you trust flying?

A few bad apples SPOIL THE BUNCH.

Every step of the way, cops stand up to defend the bad apples.

You even prove it with your stat and you don't get it. All those internal investigations of wrongdoing. We, the police, find no evidence on police wrongdoing.

You even said Castille is a great example.

THE COP WAS FOUND INNOCENT.

Sorry you can't handle the people treating you like people of color are treated. Maybe don't kill people and don't defend killers, idk.

You have literally NO reading comprehension. Castille is an example of WHAT IS WRONG!!!! It was a bad shoot. He was in the wrong. He should have been tried and charged. Not acquitted. But that is largely on the JUDICIAL SYSTEM. The police cannot acquit. That is up to a judge and jury. Not law enforcement...good grief.

Cops DO NOT defend bad apples. I have PERSONALLY put bad cops in JAIL and had even more suspended or fired. I have collegues that have done the same. It's just that the media never covers that aspect of it. A lot of that they CAN'T cover because it is covered by privacy laws that are a constitutional right of every citizen in the US. Maybe we should just start announcing "hey media and citizens! We are investigating some information on Officer Joe and Officer Bob regarding some intel we got about them being dirty! We will be surveilling them on this date and this time and also seizing their phones to further our investigation on this date! Jsut wanted everyone to know!!" YES...there are BAD law enforcement officers that get into the ranks or get involved with bad stuff once they get on the force. Most agencies actively work to identify those and get rid of them. A complaint does not equal a bad officer. It's just a complaint. Most are based on a citizens hurt feelings. Most brutalization complaints are filed as part of civil suits by subjects who FOUGHT the police as they were being arrested. It's a money grab. I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings but it's actual ****ing reality. Case in point: If Brooks had not been shot (but had fought the police and subsequently been tased during the chase) he would have probably filed a brualization complaint to found a civil suit against the department to try to grab some cash. I've literally seen this happen dozens upon dozens of time.

Your misinformed assumption is that every complaint against every officer is real. That's just not the truth. Your assumption is that we don't really investigate it. Or that we cover everything up. These are all assumptions. You are literally not involved at any level with any of those investigations.

As I said earlier. Anyone can complain about anything on an officer. Some of them are real. Some of them are misunderstandings. Some of them are complete fabrications. 10% doesnt' mean shit because based on investigation by local , state, and federal entities under 5% of that 10% total are actually justifiable complaints. So under 4,000 justifiable complaints and most of those actually center around policy violations and breach of 4th or 5th amendment rights. As I've stated before...there needs to be reform and training. No one is arguing that. Literally....no one.

Your final line reveals what your compulsion is, though. You have unmasked your true intent. This is the same intent that is held by a vast number of protesters and rioters. In your own words "Sorry you can't handle the people treating you like people of color are treated". So, you perceive that all officers treat all people of color a certain way. So the answer is to retaliate based on an overblown, perceived slight. Well...that's a good way to change things for the better.... Again, you don't have actual stats to back that up just some anecdotal bullshit scenarios from which you make broad generalities. The fact is that most of the stats don't support your argument. This is why most libs don't want to address stats except for a few that they cherry-pick.

Chris Rock doesn't define anything about law enforcement. 100% perfection is not achievable by any human. Do you trust flying? Planes crash all the time. Do you trust doctors? Doctors kill patients and misdiagnose all the time. Where are the riots? The protests?

There aren't any. Why the police then? Because people don't like to get in trouble. They don't like tickets. They don't like fines.

I'm done. At this point, I (and most of us now) really hope you all get what you are asking for.

Incidentally, actual scientific research disproves all the bullshit:

https://ccj.asu.edu/content/expert-insight-criminal-justice-dr-lois-james-her-controversial-study-reverse-racism-effect

Sorry that doesn't support your anecdotally based bullshit but when have stats and facts ever done anything for someone with their head up their own ass.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Yeah, this isn't a George Floyd scenario. If you don't want to be assaulted or even killed by the police, follow these simple steps:
1. Don't commit crimes
2. If you choose to ignore #1, Don't resist arrest
3. If you choose to ignore #1 and #2, Don't go for the cop's weapon
4. If in doubt, See #1.

ETA: This works 99.9% of the time. For the 0.1% of the time it doesn't, the officer should be fired and jailed (and almost always is).

And when or if you do happen to follow all these steps, and still get killed, every citizen in the nation should protest until answers are given. We all should stay united. Its a simple system.

[FISHDAWG]

And when or if you do happen to follow all these steps, and still get killed, every citizen in the nation should protest until answers are given. We all should stay united. Its a simple system.

what is simple is that there is absolutely NO EXCUSE for destruction of property

[Lord McBuckethead]

Also, to keep it simple, there needs to be a public record of each police officer that shows all reports filed against that officer that the public can see and review. Especially when the city is looking to hire a new officer transferring in. New officers should have to get approval by the local elected board through a public hearing, which they pretty much do now I believe. Only difference is, the public could review their work record and comment.

It is well beyond time for that type of transparency and it would greatly reduce the bad apple argument.

[Extendedcab]

It's like you ignored the whole video. Do you not think people lie about their treatment by police? Not all, obviously, but a lot do. One day you'll join reality and quit living in fairytale land

The truth does not matter to that guy! He repeatedly ignores it and make up his own false narrative!!

[dantheman4248]

You seem to be missing the part where the protesting is wanting more accountability for policing to keep them from abuse because clearly they can't keep themselves form abusing power. Referring to the judicial system as the problem shows the ME ME ME complex aka why are people mad at ME. News flash they are mad at the system as a whole. Both are included.

Cops don't defend bad apples yet they just protested this man's charges. So many protested the charges against the one in Buffalo. Good cops had their chance. They blew it. They showed that it's just gang mentality.

Look at what happened to the last good cop in Chris Dorner. People are protesting the system that betrayed him. He did what he was supposed to and was tossed aside for not submitting to gang mentality.

[TUSK]

Something that's been overlooked in all of this:

These protesters, looters, criminals, thugs, savages, etc are actually SAFER with an effective Police Force (even if 10% are "bad apples")....

Because, when these cops quit, and the general populous starts to "police" it's own, it's going to be a GD Killing Field....

[dantheman4248]

The truth does not matter to that guy! He repeatedly ignores it and make up his own false narrative!!

***************

Knock it off Dan - Scooba

[DownwardDawg]

Got ya. I haven't seen the video.

Every cop in America is trained to shoot in that situation. And I wasn?t aiming my post at you in no way. Just adding info.

[DownwardDawg]

Something that's been overlooked in all of this:

These protesters, looters, criminals, thugs, savages, etc are actually SAFER with an effective Police Force (even if 10% are "bad apples")....

Because, when these cops quit, and the general populous starts to "police" it's own, it's going to be a GD Killing Field....

Without police presence there will be many dead rioters. Either by citizens or military.

[Lord McBuckethead]

what is simple is that there is absolutely NO EXCUSE for destruction of property

Yeah, no shit. Looters are not protestors. Protestors sharpen our democracy, looters are criminals. If we all participated, as we should, defending the right to equality for our fellow citizens in the law, maybe strength in numbers would stop looters from doing their bullshit.

I am not saying it is the responsibility for peaceful protestors to stop bullshit looters, nor are they responsible for it. At some point it is all our faults for allowing it to happen. It is our fault because a lot of us are looking for bullshit #whataboutism situations that verify some slanted view when this kind of attacks on citizens is justifiable. We all know Floyd should not be dead. We all know what happened in front of the whitehouse was total bullshit on bible photo day. We all know that tons of situations call for police use of force and some do not. We all know the answer is to get it to stop. So why have these threads justifying bullshit. Just put on your damn sneakers and go stand with your fellow citizens. Stop the racist bullshit. Try to change the system, and then when we do, fight for constant revisions to be made to the changes. We need to constantly evolve on how we continue to march towards a more perfect union.

For instance, war on drugs and mandatory minimum sentences was a reasonable reaction to the state of affairs when folks were getting killed in broad daylight for 40 bucks to buy crack. The biggest flaw in the system was that we set that process and then left it. We didn't adjust for the injustice we were seeing. Crime went down, but a bunch of citizens over paid their price.

So stand with the Floyd protestors. It is our duty as Americans. Denounce all looting and anarchy. Both can and shall be achieved. It is our duty.

[Dawgology]

You seem to be missing the part where the protesting is wanting more accountability for policing to keep them from abuse because clearly they can't keep themselves form abusing power. Referring to the judicial system as the problem shows the ME ME ME complex aka why are people mad at ME. News flash they are mad at the system as a whole. Both are included.

Cops don't defend bad apples yet they just protested this man's charges. So many protested the charges against the one in Buffalo. Good cops had their chance. They blew it. They showed that it's just gang mentality.

Look at what happened to the last good cop in Chris Dorner. People are protesting the system that betrayed him. He did what he was supposed to and was tossed aside for not submitting to gang mentality.

Awesome. Three, subjectively reviewed examples. You just proved my point. Anecdotal evidence.

Let's look at your examples:

Brooks: Fought officers. Stole Taser from officers. Shot taser at officer. Mayor fires officer citing the subject didn't have deadly weapon after previously firing two officers for tasing two college students because the taser is a deadly weapon. The DA charges the officer IN MIDDLE of an investigation by an outside agency that he is only tangentially involved in. The APD isn't just defending this officer they are making a very clear statement that they won't be the sacrificial lamb for bullshit politics any longer.

Chris Dorner: I would recommend you read up on Dorner and not just depend on the Chappelle monologue to guide your thought process on this one. Chappelle makes some very good observations in his special but he also represents one of the main issues I have with this "protest"...he doesn't have all the info. He presents one side and sensationalizes it. I LOVE Chappelle but he's not 100% correct on this one. Dorner was a basket case. If he remained an officer he would have killed someone as an officer. As it is he killed 4 people as part of "assymetrical warfare". All law enforcement including family members of officers he had "beef" with. In this instance, law enforcement (and their families) shielded the general population from this lunatic and they are being called the bad guy because of it.

Buffalo: Be more specific and I will follow up.

Again...you can say bringing attention to the court system is a strawman (it's the lefts favorite argument for anything) if you want but it's THE problem. I see no protestors calling to defund or reform the courts or court system. Just police. You say they are protesting the whole system but all I see are people screaming at police. Again...you are blinded and being led by the nose.

[Dawgology]

Also, to keep it simple, there needs to be a public record of each police officer that shows all reports filed against that officer that the public can see and review. Especially when the city is looking to hire a new officer transferring in. New officers should have to get approval by the local elected board through a public hearing, which they pretty much do now I believe. Only difference is, the public could review their work record and comment.

It is well beyond time for that type of transparency and it would greatly reduce the bad apple argument.

I agree. We should do this for all fire personnel, doctors, EMT's, teachers...really everyone. All personal records should be available for anyone to review.

[Dawgology]

And when or if you do happen to follow all these steps, and still get killed, every citizen in the nation should protest until answers are given. We all should stay united. Its a simple system.

Agreed. And 99.999% of all law enforcement will agree with you.

[Cowbell]

You're the one who pm'd about how you wish the world was like biblical times when slaves had to submit to their masters. How about just ****ing right off this Earth please and thank you.

I'm not a mod, but a post like this should get the 12 yr old banned. Time to get off mommies computer.

[Dawgology]

Yeah, no shit. Looters are not protestors. Protestors sharpen our democracy, looters are criminals. If we all participated, as we should, defending the right to equality for our fellow citizens in the law, maybe strength in numbers would stop looters from doing their bullshit.

I am not saying it is the responsibility for peaceful protestors to stop bullshit looters, nor are they responsible for it. At some point it is all our faults for allowing it to happen. It is our fault because a lot of us are looking for bullshit #whataboutism situations that verify some slanted view when this kind of attacks on citizens is justifiable. We all know Floyd should not be dead. We all know what happened in front of the whitehouse was total bullshit on bible photo day. We all know that tons of situations call for police use of force and some do not. We all know the answer is to get it to stop. So why have these threads justifying bullshit. Just put on your damn sneakers and go stand with your fellow citizens. Stop the racist bullshit. Try to change the system, and then when we do, fight for constant revisions to be made to the changes. We need to constantly evolve on how we continue to march towards a more perfect union.

For instance, war on drugs and mandatory minimum sentences was a reasonable reaction to the state of affairs when folks were getting killed in broad daylight for 40 bucks to buy crack. The biggest flaw in the system was that we set that process and then left it. We didn't adjust for the injustice we were seeing. Crime went down, but a bunch of citizens over paid their price.

So stand with the Floyd protestors. It is our duty as Americans. Denounce all looting and anarchy. Both can and shall be achieved. It is our duty.

Well stated. I bolded one part. The majority of complaints across the nation could be addressed by changing some laws and changing our court systems. People talk about qualified immunity but judges and attorneys have that x100. They can say just about ANYTHING in court. They can sentence someone to WHATEVER they want to. Law enforcement needs to evolve as well but law enforcement is obligated to uphold the law of the jurisdiction they serve and the USA as a whole. The laws have to be changed to address an evolved society. It would certainly make policing easier as a whole.

[Cowbell]

Something that's been overlooked in all of this:

These protesters, looters, criminals, thugs, savages, etc are actually SAFER with an effective Police Force (even if 10% are "bad apples")....

Because, when these cops quit, and the general populous starts to "police" it's own, it's going to be a GD Killing Field....

This is 100% correct. More black men will die than ever before. From other black men.

[Cowbell]

This DA has already told multiple lies. The other officer is not going to turn and testify against the shooting officer.
This guy is going to get acquitted and they know that. They are looking for political pull and they want the mass historian that will ensue. I guarantee this will be an absolutely rushed due process with a decision before November.

[Johnson85]

Something that's been overlooked in all of this:

These protesters, looters, criminals, thugs, savages, etc are actually SAFER with an effective Police Force (even if 10% are "bad apples")....

Because, when these cops quit, and the general populous starts to "police" it's own, it's going to be a GD Killing Field....


Yup. In the short term, the police protect the law abiding. In the medium and long term, they provide much more protection to criminals.

And to the extent police engage in systematic discrimination against minorities, I'm not sure the general population isn't going to be a good bit worse.

[Extendedcab]

Yeah, no shit. Looters are not protestors. Protestors sharpen our democracy, looters are criminals. If we all participated, as we should, defending the right to equality for our fellow citizens in the law, maybe strength in numbers would stop looters from doing their bullshit.

I am not saying it is the responsibility for peaceful protestors to stop bullshit looters, nor are they responsible for it. At some point it is all our faults for allowing it to happen. It is our fault because a lot of us are looking for bullshit #whataboutism situations that verify some slanted view when this kind of attacks on citizens is justifiable. We all know Floyd should not be dead. We all know what happened in front of the whitehouse was total bullshit on bible photo day. We all know that tons of situations call for police use of force and some do not. We all know the answer is to get it to stop. So why have these threads justifying bullshit. Just put on your damn sneakers and go stand with your fellow citizens. Stop the racist bullshit. Try to change the system, and then when we do, fight for constant revisions to be made to the changes. We need to constantly evolve on how we continue to march towards a more perfect union.

For instance, war on drugs and mandatory minimum sentences was a reasonable reaction to the state of affairs when folks were getting killed in broad daylight for 40 bucks to buy crack. The biggest flaw in the system was that we set that process and then left it. We didn't adjust for the injustice we were seeing. Crime went down, but a bunch of citizens over paid their price.

So stand with the Floyd protestors. It is our duty as Americans. Denounce all looting and anarchy. Both can and shall be achieved. It is our duty.

It is not about race, it is about the destruction of America. The media and the left wing are trying to make it a race issue and IT IS NOT! Did you know in 2019, according to national news, that 28 people were killed at the hands of police and of those 28, 9 were black people and 19 were white people? Percentage wise, 2X (200%) as many white people died at the hands of police than blacks. Where is the outrage for the white deaths? The left's narrative that blacks are being targeted is total bullshit, the numbers speak for themselves. ALL LIVES MATTER dammit! We are all HUMAN BEINGS regardless of skin color!

[Dawgology]

Yup. In the short term, the police protect the law abiding. In the medium and long term, they provide much more protection to criminals.

And to the extent police engage in systematic discrimination against minorities, I'm not sure the general population isn't going to be a good bit worse.

Exactly. No police = no 4th and 5th amendment right. No policy restricting violence. No use of force continuum. It will be back to vigilante gangs in communties rounding up people they think did wrong.

That worked out SO WELL before.....***********

[Extendedcab]

I'm not a mod, but a post like this should get the 12 yr old banned. Time to get off mommies computer.

His childish and totally ignorant and incessant BS is why I put him on the IGNORE list. It is a great ED feature. :D

[PMDawg]

You have literally NO reading comprehension. Castille is an example of WHAT IS WRONG!!!! It was a bad shoot. He was in the wrong. He should have been tried and charged. Not acquitted. But that is largely on the JUDICIAL SYSTEM. The police cannot acquit. That is up to a judge and jury. Not law enforcement...good grief.

Cops DO NOT defend bad apples. I have PERSONALLY put bad cops in JAIL and had even more suspended or fired. I have collegues that have done the same. It's just that the media never covers that aspect of it. A lot of that they CAN'T cover because it is covered by privacy laws that are a constitutional right of every citizen in the US. Maybe we should just start announcing "hey media and citizens! We are investigating some information on Officer Joe and Officer Bob regarding some intel we got about them being dirty! We will be surveilling them on this date and this time and also seizing their phones to further our investigation on this date! Jsut wanted everyone to know!!" YES...there are BAD law enforcement officers that get into the ranks or get involved with bad stuff once they get on the force. Most agencies actively work to identify those and get rid of them. A complaint does not equal a bad officer. It's just a complaint. Most are based on a citizens hurt feelings. Most brutalization complaints are filed as part of civil suits by subjects who FOUGHT the police as they were being arrested. It's a money grab. I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings but it's actual ****ing reality. Case in point: If Brooks had not been shot (but had fought the police and subsequently been tased during the chase) he would have probably filed a brualization complaint to found a civil suit against the department to try to grab some cash. I've literally seen this happen dozens upon dozens of time.

Your misinformed assumption is that every complaint against every officer is real. That's just not the truth. Your assumption is that we don't really investigate it. Or that we cover everything up. These are all assumptions. You are literally not involved at any level with any of those investigations.

As I said earlier. Anyone can complain about anything on an officer. Some of them are real. Some of them are misunderstandings. Some of them are complete fabrications. 10% doesnt' mean shit because based on investigation by local , state, and federal entities under 5% of that 10% total are actually justifiable complaints. So under 4,000 justifiable complaints and most of those actually center around policy violations and breach of 4th or 5th amendment rights. As I've stated before...there needs to be reform and training. No one is arguing that. Literally....no one.

Your final line reveals what your compulsion is, though. You have unmasked your true intent. This is the same intent that is held by a vast number of protesters and rioters. In your own words "Sorry you can't handle the people treating you like people of color are treated". So, you perceive that all officers treat all people of color a certain way. So the answer is to retaliate based on an overblown, perceived slight. Well...that's a good way to change things for the better.... Again, you don't have actual stats to back that up just some anecdotal bullshit scenarios from which you make broad generalities. The fact is that most of the stats don't support your argument. This is why most libs don't want to address stats except for a few that they cherry-pick.

Chris Rock doesn't define anything about law enforcement. 100% perfection is not achievable by any human. Do you trust flying? Planes crash all the time. Do you trust doctors? Doctors kill patients and misdiagnose all the time. Where are the riots? The protests?

There aren't any. Why the police then? Because people don't like to get in trouble. They don't like tickets. They don't like fines.

I'm done. At this point, I (and most of us now) really hope you all get what you are asking for.

Incidentally, actual scientific research disproves all the bullshit:

https://ccj.asu.edu/content/expert-insight-criminal-justice-dr-lois-james-her-controversial-study-reverse-racism-effect

Sorry that doesn't support your anecdotally based bullshit but when have stats and facts ever done anything for someone with their head up their own ass.

I mean, you've literally owned this chump as bad as someone can be owned. You've reduced him to nothing.

[Commercecomet24]

Something that's been overlooked in all of this:

These protesters, looters, criminals, thugs, savages, etc are actually SAFER with an effective Police Force (even if 10% are "bad apples")....

Because, when these cops quit, and the general populous starts to "police" it's own, it's going to be a GD Killing Field....

You are so right my friend and it's unfortunate that it might just come to that. Folks are getting locked and loaded.

[PMDawg]

And when or if you do happen to follow all these steps, and still get killed, every citizen in the nation should protest until answers are given. We all should stay united. Its a simple system.

Like Dawgology said, yes, protest when this happens. But, protest the right thing (the Judicial System). Criminals go free all the time because the system sucks. That includes bad cops who do bad things. Also, hundreds of grinning and laughing people storming a random Target to get free stuff DOES NOT constitute protesting. Neither does throwing molotov cocktails at the police, burning down the businesses of innocent bystanders, beating up random people just 'cause, etc. etc.

[PMDawg]

I'm not a mod, but a post like this should get the 12 yr old banned. Time to get off mommies computer.

Completely agree.

[R2Dawg]

Police aren't doctors.

Federal law nor the constitution requires an officer to render medical care personally. I wish the officer would, but he is not required to as long as he seeks medical care for the victim (call for ambulance).

If the officer committed murder, he will be convicted. I would need to know the whole story before judging. If it is true that the victim pointed a taser at an officer while going away from the officer like the atl newspaper said, then the shooting was lawful. Cops are always allowed to go up another force level than that of the other person.

Report I heard this morning is one of the officers did CPR and tried talking to him as well as I think called emergency response after he went down. Mainstream narrative will not show any of that. 89 officers killed in 2019, don't hear about any of that.

[RezDog7]

So that cop should just let him run away and hope that it wasn't a gun he was pointing back at him. What happens when this drunk (not black) person gets in a car and kills my innocent family because the cop decided not to give chase. **** that. You resist arrest then you get what you get.

[Thick]

We just need a Civil War, and that will resolve A LOT of this country?s problems. The more weak minded, no accountability, liberal assholes that get stacked up like log wood the better. Culling the weak!

[Joebob]

We just need a Civil War, and that will resolve A LOT of this country?s problems. The more weak minded, no accountability, liberal assholes that get stacked up like log wood the better. Culling the weak!

Try not to be an effing idiot, if you can. I know it's probably hard for you.

[TUSK]

We just need a Civil War, and that will resolve A LOT of this country?s problems. The more weak minded, no accountability, liberal assholes that get stacked up like log wood the better. Culling the weak!

It'd be bad for a lot of innocents, but I believe it might come to that, Thick... And the country would probably be better in the long run if it hit the "reset" button....

I just hope I'm still around and healthy enough to make it to the party...

[Joebob]

I mean, you've literally owned this chump as bad as someone can be owned. You've reduced him to nothing.

Nobody has owned anybody. People on both sides have made excellent points. It's no wonder we can't get issues like this resolved in this country. Nobody is listening because everybody wants to be the winner.

[Extendedcab]

So that cop should just let him run away and hope that it wasn't a gun he was pointing back at him. What happens when this drunk (not black) person gets in a car and kills my innocent family because the cop decided not to give chase. **** that. You resist arrest then you get what you get.

Exactly, the main stream (fake) media portrays these people that are killed by police as choir boys and they are not. They are bad people that broke the law and resisted arrest. Some more so than others but the point is they did not comply with police instructions. Floyd had a choice and he chose they wrong one. He paid the ultimate price for it.

Life is not that hard, it is a matter of good and bad decisions, if you don't like the way you are treated, then change your dumbass ways.

[Extendedcab]

Nobody has owned anybody. People on both sides have made excellent points. It's no wonder we can't get issues like this resolved in this country. Nobody is listening because everybody wants to be the winner.

I don't agree. The is a concept called truth, but the only way you are going to obtain it or recognize it is through a Biblical world view. Otherwise, all opinions and lifestyles are valid and equal and that is NOT the truth! When everybody starts doing what is right in their own eyes, that is the start of our destruction. There has to be a firm and non-changing basis to our beliefs and actions otherwise you will be blown around by every new doctrine coming down the pike whether it is sound (Biblical) or not.

[confucius say]

Nobody has owned anybody. People on both sides have made excellent points. It's no wonder we can't get issues like this resolved in this country. Nobody is listening because everybody wants to be the winner.

And I'll add, it's ok to disagree. It's one of this country's founding principles. At some point we lost sight of that, and the media and some politicians capitalize off of that and get rich off of it. Play us like puppets. ITS OK TO DISAGREE PEOPLE!

[confucius say]

I don't agree. The is a concept called truth, but the only way you are going to obtain it or recognize it is through a Biblical world view. Otherwise, all opinions and lifestyles are valid and equal and that is NOT the truth! When everybody starts doing what is right in their own eyes, that is the start of our destruction. There has to be a firm and non-changing basis to our beliefs and actions otherwise you will be blown around by every new doctrine coming down the pike whether it is sound (Biblical) or not.

Ok, but as much as I may disagree with it personally, this country was founded on one being able to not believe in, and live by, Biblical teachings. I can disagree with those people's choice and try to introduce then to Christ, but it is their choice. They are free to disagree with my worldview.

[BB30]

You seem to be missing the part where the protesting is wanting more accountability for policing to keep them from abuse because clearly they can't keep themselves form abusing power. Referring to the judicial system as the problem shows the ME ME ME complex aka why are people mad at ME. News flash they are mad at the system as a whole. Both are included.

Cops don't defend bad apples yet they just protested this man's charges. So many protested the charges against the one in Buffalo. Good cops had their chance. They blew it. They showed that it's just gang mentality.

Look at what happened to the last good cop in Chris Dorner. People are protesting the system that betrayed him. He did what he was supposed to and was tossed aside for not submitting to gang mentality.

Ok serious question, I am genuinely trying to understand where you are coming from...

You are clearly arguing police should be held accountable and I agree.

This is where I think we are going to differ...

Do you believe that citizens both black and white should be held responsible for their actions?

When would you agree that it is alright for PD to use deadly force? At what point has the said citizen crossed the line to far?

Do you believe cops should have the right to defend themselves before the person in question fires a bullet at them? Or should they only fire once fired upon?

[BB30]

We just need a Civil War, and that will resolve A LOT of this country?s problems. The more weak minded, no accountability, liberal assholes that get stacked up like log wood the better. Culling the weak!

The last thing we need is civil war. I would assume by your response you have never been involved in a war? Nor have I and I would prefer not to if at all possible.

Wars are messy and peoples lives that you care about will be lost. Our country would be completely unrecognizable. We would be opening up the door for China and Russia to invade us. There is a whole host of reasons this would be terrible.

I agree we have some looneys out there and they are not thinking logically but a civil war would be an absolute travesty and an end to America potentially for good.

[ScoobaDawg]

Take this to off-topic.. if it can't remain civil.. I'll just close it.

[DownwardDawg]

His childish and totally ignorant and incessant BS is why I put him on the IGNORE list. It is a great ED feature. :D

He?s the only poster I have on ignore. And since someone quoted him I see he?s bitching about a PM he got. Funny, he gave me negative rep and PM?d me one of his lectures.
I need temporary Mod status. Or I need my man Cadaver to show up with his banhammer.

[ScoobaDawg]

I'm not a mod, but a post like this should get the 12 yr old banned. Time to get off mommies computer.

He's been warned.. I'm watching.. even closer now.

[ScoobaDawg]

He?s the only poster I have on ignore. And since someone quoted him I see he?s bitching about a PM he got. Funny, he gave me negative rep and PM?d me one of his lectures.
I need temporary Mod status. Or I need my man Cadaver to show up with his banhammer.

Of you all just need to go to the damn political board..

[DownwardDawg]

Of you all just need to go to the damn political board..

*^#%

[DownwardDawg]

Of you all just need to go to the damn political board..

So do you just ignore the COVID thread? Most political thread in the history of ED.

[msu15]

So do you just ignore the COVID thread? Most political thread in the history of ED.

Repped

[DownwardDawg]

Repped

Thanks bro! Repped ya back!!

[Cowbell]

He's been warned.. I'm watching.. even closer now.
Thanks for what you do man

[dantheman4248]

Ok serious question, I am genuinely trying to understand where you are coming from...

You are clearly arguing police should be held accountable and I agree.

This is where I think we are going to differ...

Do you believe that citizens both black and white should be held responsible for their actions?

When would you agree that it is alright for PD to use deadly force? At what point has the said citizen crossed the line to far?

Do you believe cops should have the right to defend themselves before the person in question fires a bullet at them? Or should they only fire once fired upon?

Police are allowed to escalate.

Civilians are not.

Police are trained to deal with life or death scenarios.

Civilians are not.

There's 3 solid amendments about how police should not be killing people period. There should be no special case outside of normal self-defense to allow for killing people.

Police get acquitted for firing 4 bullets into a man pulled over and telling the cop he's nkt reaching for the gun because the cop couldn't see his hand. That's not self-defense.

I fail to see how you need special protections under the law when you have extra training and apparently military grade equipment to enforce it. It's comical to defend.

[dantheman4248]

Thanks for what you do man

Free speech in action. Love it when it works for you. Hate it when someone explains to you how it works when it's not working for you.

Hilarious and sad.

[SheltonChoked]

You have literally NO reading comprehension. Castille is an example of WHAT IS WRONG!!!! It was a bad shoot. He was in the wrong. He should have been tried and charged. Not acquitted. But that is largely on the JUDICIAL SYSTEM. The police cannot acquit. That is up to a judge and jury. Not law enforcement...good grief.

Cops DO NOT defend bad apples. I have PERSONALLY put bad cops in JAIL and had even more suspended or fired. I have collegues that have done the same. It's just that the media never covers that aspect of it. A lot of that they CAN'T cover because it is covered by privacy laws that are a constitutional right of every citizen in the US. Maybe we should just start announcing "hey media and citizens! We are investigating some information on Officer Joe and Officer Bob regarding some intel we got about them being dirty! We will be surveilling them on this date and this time and also seizing their phones to further our investigation on this date! Jsut wanted everyone to know!!" YES...there are BAD law enforcement officers that get into the ranks or get involved with bad stuff once they get on the force. Most agencies actively work to identify those and get rid of them. A complaint does not equal a bad officer. It's just a complaint. Most are based on a citizens hurt feelings. Most brutalization complaints are filed as part of civil suits by subjects who FOUGHT the police as they were being arrested. It's a money grab. I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings but it's actual ****ing reality. Case in point: If Brooks had not been shot (but had fought the police and subsequently been tased during the chase) he would have probably filed a brualization complaint to found a civil suit against the department to try to grab some cash. I've literally seen this happen dozens upon dozens of time.

Your misinformed assumption is that every complaint against every officer is real. That's just not the truth. Your assumption is that we don't really investigate it. Or that we cover everything up. These are all assumptions. You are literally not involved at any level with any of those investigations.

As I said earlier. Anyone can complain about anything on an officer. Some of them are real. Some of them are misunderstandings. Some of them are complete fabrications. 10% doesnt' mean shit because based on investigation by local , state, and federal entities under 5% of that 10% total are actually justifiable complaints. So under 4,000 justifiable complaints and most of those actually center around policy violations and breach of 4th or 5th amendment rights. As I've stated before...there needs to be reform and training. No one is arguing that. Literally....no one.

Your final line reveals what your compulsion is, though. You have unmasked your true intent. This is the same intent that is held by a vast number of protesters and rioters. In your own words "Sorry you can't handle the people treating you like people of color are treated". So, you perceive that all officers treat all people of color a certain way. So the answer is to retaliate based on an overblown, perceived slight. Well...that's a good way to change things for the better.... Again, you don't have actual stats to back that up just some anecdotal bullshit scenarios from which you make broad generalities. The fact is that most of the stats don't support your argument. This is why most libs don't want to address stats except for a few that they cherry-pick.

Chris Rock doesn't define anything about law enforcement. 100% perfection is not achievable by any human. Do you trust flying? Planes crash all the time. Do you trust doctors? Doctors kill patients and misdiagnose all the time. Where are the riots? The protests?

There aren't any. Why the police then? Because people don't like to get in trouble. They don't like tickets. They don't like fines.

I'm done. At this point, I (and most of us now) really hope you all get what you are asking for.

Incidentally, actual scientific research disproves all the bullshit:

https://ccj.asu.edu/content/expert-insight-criminal-justice-dr-lois-james-her-controversial-study-reverse-racism-effect

Sorry that doesn't support your anecdotally based bullshit but when have stats and facts ever done anything for someone with their head up their own ass.

From your link...
police officers harbored implicit racial bias, associating weapons with black suspects more often than white suspects,

when we tested officers using the implicit association test, we found a very strong implicit association between African Americans and weapons. So we did find evidence of implicit racial bias, just like previous studies had found.

And that is the point of Black Lives matter.... to address the "Implicit racial bias" that multiple studies have found in Police.....

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

Dawgology. 85,000 police force members have had complaints of excessive force or the ilk levied against them. That's ~10%

As Chris Rocksaid, police is one of the jobs where you CANT have bad apples. To paraphrase Chris Rock, Imagine if 10% of pilots didn't feel like landing properly and just did whatever they wanted. Would you trust flying?

A few bad apples SPOIL THE BUNCH.

Every step of the way, cops stand up to defend the bad apples.

You even prove it with your stat and you don't get it. All those internal investigations of wrongdoing. We, the police, find no evidence on police wrongdoing.

You even said Castille is a great example.

THE COP WAS FOUND INNOCENT.

Sorry you can't handle the people treating you like people of color are treated. Maybe don't kill people and don't defend killers, idk.

Chris Rock, you say?


https://youtu.be/SrGP02DCx_Q

[Extendedcab]

From your link...

And that is the point of Black Lives matter.... to address the "Implicit racial bias" that multiple studies have found in Police.....

But why is there an implicit bias, this is what the liberals overlook, - it is not because of the color of their skin as you propose - a racial bias. It is because there is a strong association, numbers, percentages - aka a fact - between African Americans and weapons and violence. Reread his post!

[DownwardDawg]

Chris Rock, you say?


https://youtu.be/SrGP02DCx_Q

That’s outstanding!!!

[TUSK]

From your link...

And that is the point of Black Lives matter.... to address the "Implicit racial bias" that multiple studies have found in Police.....

Sure, there's "implicit racial bias"... I'd think that'd be normal when you've ~3-4% of a populous that's responsible for ~50% of violent crime...

For example, let's say my neighbor has a chicken coop... and I go over to visit one day and find dead chickens every where...

I'm not gonna cast nearly the suspicious eye on the squirrels up in the trees, or the woodchuck out nibblin' on soybean shoots...

however, that stray pitbull with the dead chicken in his mouf might get my attention...

js

Oh, and that actually happened.

[SheltonChoked]

But why is there an implicit bias, this is what the liberals overlook, - it is not because of the color of their skin as you propose - a racial bias. It is because there is a strong association, numbers, percentages - aka a fact - between African Americans and weapons and violence. Reread his post!

Because, then it would not be called "Bias".

But you are free to find the studies to back you up. I just read a part of the one he linked to show how Police were not biased, Only to find out that Police are racially biased....

[Extendedcab]

Because, then it would not be called "Bias".

But you are free to find the studies to back you up. I just read a part of the one he linked to show how Police were not biased, Only to find out that Police are racially biased....


But Only because the violent crime statistics support that stance. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SKIN COLOR! It is not a race issue, you are making an argument where there isn't one! It is purely a numbers play! It is because, as was stated in the quote you supplied, there is a strong association, numbers, percentages - aka a fact - between African Americans and weapons and violence.

If statistics showed that 70+ percent of crime occurred in the downtown area of the town you live in, say between 6pm and 12pm, would you go there during those hours? Why not? Is it racist to avoid an area KNOWN for high crime? Is it racist for the police to be on high alert in that high crime area during those hours? What precautions do you want the police to use to protect themselves and others - innocent bystanders? Would you take your family - wife and children to this high crime area during those hours? Why not, are you a racist? You would be at least be biased if you do not take your family there. Biased because because of statistics and not because of a particular skin color of the perps. If I am shot or conked in the head, robbed or whatever, I could care less of the skin color of the perpetrator. I would only be worried about saving my butt!

You apply different standard to others (police) than you apply to yourself.

[SheltonChoked]

But Only because the violent crime statistics support that stance. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SKIN COLOR! It is not a race issue, you are making an argument where there isn't one! It is purely a numbers play! It is because, as was stated in the quote you supplied, there is a strong association, numbers, percentages - aka a fact - between African Americans and weapons and violence.

If statistics showed that 70+ percent of crime occurred in the downtown area of the town you live in, say between 6pm and 12pm, would you go there during those hours? Why not? Is it racist to avoid an area KNOWN for high crime? Is it racist for the police to be on high alert in that high crime area during those hours? What precautions do you want the police to use to protect themselves and others - innocent bystanders? Would you take your family - wife and children to this high crime area during those hours? Why not, are you a racist? You would be at least be biased if you do not take your family there. Biased because because of statistics and not because of a particular skin color of the perps. If I am shot or conked in the head, robbed or whatever, I could care less of the skin color of the perpetrator. I would only be worried about saving my butt!

You apply different standard to others (police) than you apply to yourself.
This is going to take a while because of how far back it goes and your lack of knowledge.


First to address your "points". The author of the study says, there is a "inherent bias against blacks by police". So your argument is with her not me. If it has nothing to do with skin color the why did she use the word "Black"? It is a race issue. That's why it's a bias.

High crime areas are poor areas. Poverty is what drives Crime. Look at the increased crime rate in Appalachia since the mining industry shut down. That region went from a very low crime area, to a high crime and drug use area. Do you think it's the inner city ghetto moving to Appalachia?



TL;DR Yes, it does. The system was made to keep blacks poor.

Do some research into how much more policing is done in Black communities that in white, How much more often Blacks are pulled over for minor traffic offenses than white. Read about the black codes, what they are, and why. Learn about the impact of economics and the crime rate. Read about redlining and how that affects the economics, schooling, and poverty rate of an area.

Let's begin.

It dates back to Slavery, and is even encoded into the 13th amendment. See the 13th has a slavery loophole. It allows for Slave labor for those in prison.

So in 1866, one year after the 13th Amendment was ratified (the amendment that ended slavery), Alabama, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Georgia, Mississippi, Florida, Tennessee, and South Carolina began to lease out convicts for labor (peonage). This made the business of arresting Blacks very lucrative, which is why hundreds of White men were hired by these states as police officers. Their primary responsibility was to search out and arrest Blacks who were in violation of Black Codes. Once arrested, these men, women and children would be leased to plantations where they would harvest cotton, tobacco, sugar cane. Or they would be leased to work at coal mines, or railroad companies. The owners of these businesses would pay the state for every prisoner who worked for them; prison labor.

After the passing of the 13th Amendment, more than 800,000 Blacks were part of the system of peonage, or re-enslavement through the prison system. Peonage didn?t end until after World War II began, around 1940.

This is how it happened.

The 13th Amendment declared that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." (Ratified in 1865)

Did you catch that? It says, ?neither slavery nor involuntary servitude could occur except as a punishment for a crime". Lawmakers used this phrase to make petty offenses crimes. When Blacks were found guilty of committing these crimes, they were imprisoned and then leased out to the same businesses that lost slaves after the passing of the 13th Amendment. This system of convict labor is called peonage.

The majority of White Southern farmers and business owners hated the 13th Amendment because it took away slave labor. As a way to appease them, the federal government turned a blind eye when southern states used this clause in the 13th Amendment to establish laws called Black Codes. Mississippi was the first state to pass Black Codes. Here are some examples of Black Codes:

In Mississippi, "An Act to confer Civil Rights on Freedmen". This law allowed Blacks to rent land only within cities?effectively preventing them from earning money through independent farming. It required Blacks to present, each January, written proof of employment.
Whites could avoid the code's penalty by swearing a pauper's oath. In the case of blacks, however: "the duty of the sheriff of the proper county to hire out said freedman, free negro or mulatto, to any person who will, for the shortest period of service, pay said fine or forfeiture and all costs." The laws also levied a special tax on blacks (between ages 18 and 60); those who did not pay could be arrested for vagrancy.
That all freedmen, free negroes and mulattoes in this State, over the age of eighteen years, found on the second Monday in January, 1866, or thereafter, without lawful employment or business, or found unlawfully assembling themselves together, either in the day or night time, and all white persons so assembling themselves with freedmen, free negroes or mulattoes, or usually associating with freedmen, free negroes or mulattoes, on terms of equality, or living in adultery or fornication with a freed woman, free negro or mulatto, shall be deemed vagrants, and on conviction thereof shall be fined in a sum not exceeding, in the case of a freedman, free negro, or mulatto, fifty dollars, and a white man two hundred dollars, and imprisoned, at the discretion of the court, the free negro not exceeding ten days, and the white man not exceeding six months. (FYI the top wage in MS for farm labor was less then $2/week)

In Louisiana, it was illegal for a Black man to preach to Black congregations without special permission in writing from the president of the police. If caught, he could be arrested and fined. If he could not pay the fines, which were unbelievably high, he would be forced to work for an individual, or go to jail or prison where he would work until his debt was paid off.

If a Black person did not have a job, he or she could be arrested and imprisoned on the charge of vagrancy or loitering.

This next Black Code will make you cringe. In South Carolina, if the parent of a Black child was considered vagrant, the judicial system allowed the police and/or other government agencies to ?apprentice? the child to an "employer". Males could be held until the age of 21, and females could be held until they were 18. Their owner had the legal right to inflict punishment on the child for disobedience, and to recapture them if they ran away.
This (peonage) is an example of systemic racism - Racism established and perpetuated by government systems. Slavery was made legal by the U.S. Government. Segregation, Black Codes, Jim Crow and peonage were all made legal by the government, and upheld by the judicial system. These acts of racism were built into the system, which is where the term ?Systemic Racism? is derived.

This is the part of "Black History" that most of us were never told about.


Research indicates that there is extensive racial and ethnic discrimination by police and the judicial system.A substantial academic literature has compared police searches (showing that contraband is found at higher rates in whites who are stopped), bail decisions (showing that whites with the same bail decision as blacks commit more pre-trial violations), and sentencing (showing that blacks are more harshly sentenced by juries and judges than whites when the underlying facts and circumstances of the cases are similar), providing valid causal inferences of racial discrimination. Studies have documented patterns of racial discrimination, as well as patterns of police brutality and disregard for the constitutional rights of African-Americans, by police departments in various American cities,


According to the NCVS for 1992?2000, 43% of violent criminal acts, and 53% of serious violent crime (not verbal threats, or cuts and bruises) were reported to the police. Overall, black (49%) and indigenous Americans (48%) victims reported most often, higher than whites (42%) and Asians (40%). Serious violent crime and aggravated assault against blacks (58% and 61%) and indigenous Americans (55% and 59%) was reported more often than against whites (51% and 54%) or Asians (50% and 51%). indigenous Americans were unusually unlikely to report a robbery (45%), as with Asians and a simple assault (31%)


In-group bias has been observed when it comes to traffic citations, as black and white cops are more likely to cite out-groups. A 2013 report found that blacks were "3.73 times more likely than whites to be arrested for marijuana possession," even though "blacks and whites use drugs, including marijuana, at similar rates." A 2020 study in the journal Nature found that black drivers were stopped more often than white drivers, and that the threshold by which police decided to search black and Hispanic drivers was lower than that for whites (judging by the rate at which contraband was found in searches). Analysis of more than 20 million traffic stops in North Carolina showed that blacks were more than twice as likely as whites to be pulled over by police for traffic stops, and that blacks were more likely to be searched following the stop. There were no significant difference in the likelihood that Hispanics would be pulled over, but Hispanics were much more likely to be searched following a traffic stop than whites. When the study controlled for searches in high-crime areas, it still found that police disproportionately targeted black individuals. These racial disparities were particularly pronounced for young men. The study found that whites who were searched were more likely to carry contraband than blacks and Hispanics.


A 2018 study in the Journal of Empirical Legal Studies found that law enforcement officers in Texas who could charge shoplifters with two types of crimes (one more serious, one less so) due to a vaguely worded statute were more likely to charge blacks and Hispanics with the more serious crime.

A 2019 study, which made use of a dataset of the racial makeup of every U.S. sheriff over a 25-year period, found that "ratio of Black‐to‐White arrests is significantly higher under White sheriffs" and that the effects appear to be "driven by arrests for less‐serious offenses and by targeting Black crime types."
A 2018 study in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences found that tall young black men are especially likely to receive unjustified attention by law enforcement. The authors furthermore found a "causal link between perceptions of height and perceptions of threat for Black men, particularly for perceivers who endorse stereotypes that Black people are more threatening than White people."


For example, Robert J. Sampson has reported that most of the reason violent crime rates are so high among blacks originates mainly from unemployment, economic deprivation, and family disorganization. Specifically, he found that "the scarcity of employed black men increases the prevalence of families headed by females in black communities" and that the increased prevalence of such families in turn results in family disruption that significantly increases black murder and robbery rates.[


According to a 2017 study in the Journal of Law and Economics, "Higher pretrial detention rates among minority defendants explain 40 percent of the black-white gap in rates of being sentenced to prison and 28 percent of the Hispanic-white gap." The majority of individuals held in pretrial detention are being held because they cannot afford to post bail. The individuals in pretrial detention face higher incentives to plead guilty (even if they are innocent) for a number of reasons, which leads to a higher sentencing rates for these individuals.


Studies indicate that areas with low socioeconomic status may have the greatest correlation of crime with young and adult males, regardless of racial composition

Remember Redlining?

A 1996 study looking at data from Columbus, Ohio found that differences in disadvantage in city neighborhoods explained the vast majority of the difference in crime rates between blacks and whites, and two 2003 studies looking at violent offending among juveniles reached similar conclusions.


"Hagan and Peterson (1995) further propose that the segregation of racial minorities in sections of concentrated poverty contributes to inferior educational and employment opportunities, which, in turn, enhance the likelihood of crime and delinquency.

[TUSK]

This is going to take a while because of how far back it goes and your lack of knowledge.


First to address your "points". The author of the study says, there is a "inherent bias against blacks by police". So your argument is with her not me. If it has nothing to do with skin color the why did she use the word "Black"? It is a race issue. That's why it's a bias.

High crime areas are poor areas. Poverty is what drives Crime. Look at the increased crime rate in Appalachia since the mining industry shut down. That region went from a very low crime area, to a high crime and drug use area. Do you think it's the inner city ghetto moving to Appalachia?



TL;DR Yes, it does. The system was made to keep blacks poor.

Do some research into how much more policing is done in Black communities that in white, How much more often Blacks are pulled over for minor traffic offenses than white. Read about the black codes, what they are, and why. Learn about the impact of economics and the crime rate. Read about redlining and how that affects the economics, schooling, and poverty rate of an area.

Let's begin.

It dates back to Slavery, and is even encoded into the 13th amendment. See the 13th has a slavery loophole. It allows for Slave labor for those in prison.

So in 1866, one year after the 13th Amendment was ratified (the amendment that ended slavery), Alabama, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Georgia, Mississippi, Florida, Tennessee, and South Carolina began to lease out convicts for labor (peonage). This made the business of arresting Blacks very lucrative, which is why hundreds of White men were hired by these states as police officers. Their primary responsibility was to search out and arrest Blacks who were in violation of Black Codes. Once arrested, these men, women and children would be leased to plantations where they would harvest cotton, tobacco, sugar cane. Or they would be leased to work at coal mines, or railroad companies. The owners of these businesses would pay the state for every prisoner who worked for them; prison labor.

After the passing of the 13th Amendment, more than 800,000 Blacks were part of the system of peonage, or re-enslavement through the prison system. Peonage didn?t end until after World War II began, around 1940.

This is how it happened.

The 13th Amendment declared that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." (Ratified in 1865)

Did you catch that? It says, ?neither slavery nor involuntary servitude could occur except as a punishment for a crime". Lawmakers used this phrase to make petty offenses crimes. When Blacks were found guilty of committing these crimes, they were imprisoned and then leased out to the same businesses that lost slaves after the passing of the 13th Amendment. This system of convict labor is called peonage.

The majority of White Southern farmers and business owners hated the 13th Amendment because it took away slave labor. As a way to appease them, the federal government turned a blind eye when southern states used this clause in the 13th Amendment to establish laws called Black Codes. Mississippi was the first state to pass Black Codes. Here are some examples of Black Codes:

In Mississippi, "An Act to confer Civil Rights on Freedmen". This law allowed Blacks to rent land only within cities?effectively preventing them from earning money through independent farming. It required Blacks to present, each January, written proof of employment.
Whites could avoid the code's penalty by swearing a pauper's oath. In the case of blacks, however: "the duty of the sheriff of the proper county to hire out said freedman, free negro or mulatto, to any person who will, for the shortest period of service, pay said fine or forfeiture and all costs." The laws also levied a special tax on blacks (between ages 18 and 60); those who did not pay could be arrested for vagrancy. (FYI the top wage in MS for farm labor was less then $2/week)

In Louisiana, it was illegal for a Black man to preach to Black congregations without special permission in writing from the president of the police. If caught, he could be arrested and fined. If he could not pay the fines, which were unbelievably high, he would be forced to work for an individual, or go to jail or prison where he would work until his debt was paid off.

If a Black person did not have a job, he or she could be arrested and imprisoned on the charge of vagrancy or loitering.

This next Black Code will make you cringe. In South Carolina, if the parent of a Black child was considered vagrant, the judicial system allowed the police and/or other government agencies to ?apprentice? the child to an "employer". Males could be held until the age of 21, and females could be held until they were 18. Their owner had the legal right to inflict punishment on the child for disobedience, and to recapture them if they ran away.
This (peonage) is an example of systemic racism - Racism established and perpetuated by government systems. Slavery was made legal by the U.S. Government. Segregation, Black Codes, Jim Crow and peonage were all made legal by the government, and upheld by the judicial system. These acts of racism were built into the system, which is where the term ?Systemic Racism? is derived.

This is the part of "Black History" that most of us were never told about.















Remember Redlining?

Violent crime rates in Appalachia aren't nearly what that are in poor urban areas... not close. It's more dope, theft, fraud, and the like.

If violent crime was caused by poverty Appalachia would be a Killing Field.... Like Chiraq, for example...

[Extendedcab]

Violent crime rates in Appalachia aren't nearly what that are in poor urban areas... not close. It's more dope, theft, fraud, and the like.

If violent crime was caused by poverty Appalachia would be a Killing Field.... Like Chiraq, for example...

Other causes are the breakdown of the family, single parent homes where gangs are filling the role of father - like father like son and the lack of morality as the bible is not taught at home nor in the schools - since the 1960s that is.

I aso, like my extended family, grew up very poor in rural Mississippi and we were not gang members, thugs, robbers, murderers or other such criminals. Poverty is an excuse the liberals like to use to justify wealth redistribution - more government programs that are not sustainable and that rob a man of his self esteem. No need to work low income jobs (due to no education or professional skills) when the government will give you the same amount of money to sit on your butt.

All of the stats Sheldon shows focus only on the symptoms and not the root cause.

[SheltonChoked]

Violent crime rates in Appalachia aren't nearly what that are in poor urban areas... not close. It's more dope, theft, fraud, and the like.

If violent crime was caused by poverty Appalachia would be a Killing Field.... Like Chiraq, for example...

Severe poverty in Appalachia is a recent development, less than 20 years, and already, there is a huge Opiate drug problem. If you read the whole thing, blacks have been in severe poverty since 1866. And when they were successful, the Whites firebombed the neighborhood and slaughtered 1,000's.

So let's check back in 10 years.

[SheltonChoked]

Other causes are the breakdown of the family, single parent homes where gangs are filling the role of father - like father like son and the lack of morality as the bible is not taught at home nor in the schools - since the 1960s that is.

I aso, like my extended family, grew up very poor in rural Mississippi and we were not gang members, thugs, robbers, murderers or other such criminals. Poverty is an excuse the liberals like to use to justify wealth redistribution - more government programs that are not sustainable and that rob a man of his self esteem. No need to work low income jobs (due to no education or professional skills) when the government will give you the same amount of money to sit on your butt.

All of the stats Sheldon shows focus only on the symptoms and not the root cause.


You missed the whole fcuking point.

I knew you would. Your self worth depends on it.

[Extendedcab]

You missed the whole fcuking point.

I knew you would. Your self worth depends on it.

I did not miss anything, you never hold the individual accountable for their own actions, you assume, wrongly, that it is societies fault for all of the evils in a person's life, their poor decisions, including making a particular person poor or making him a drug addict. The individual has choices but you do not see that. I hold the individual responsible and you think white people did it and that government is the answer and that it takes a community to raise a child.

I see a person from the inside out, what kind of character they have in their heart and you look only at external factors, that they are poor and too stupid to get out of their situation so the government MUST bail them out. We have been bailing them our for multiple generations but yet you want to make the same old dumb ass mistakes that have been made for 50+ years!

And now poor is just not enough but you are defining a new term, like liberals like to do when you call them on their dumb ass idea, extremely poor! You don't realize that when I grew up we were the VERY POOR! And guess what, we pulled ourselves up by our bootstraps, we did not depend on government handouts.

But you sound just like Obama, the government made the money we have and the individual had nothing to do with it. It was not not our ideas, our hard work, our doing without, our sacrificing, our businesses - it was all given to us by the government!

[SheltonChoked]

I did not miss anything, you never hold the individual accountable for their own actions, you assume, wrongly, that it is societies fault for all of the evils in a person's life, their poor decisions, including making a particular person poor or making him a drug addict. The individual has choices but you do not see that. I hold the individual responsible and you think white people did it and that government is the answer and that it takes a community to raise a child.

I see a person from the inside out, what kind of character they have in their heart and you look only at external factors, that they are poor and too stupid to get out of their situation so the government MUST bail them out. We have been bailing them our for multiple generations but yet you want to make the same old dumb ass mistakes that have been made for 50+ years!

And now poor is just not enough but you are defining a new term, like liberals like to do when you call them on their dumb ass idea, extremely poor! You don't realize that when I grew up we were the VERY POOR! And guess what, we pulled ourselves up by our bootstraps, we did not depend on government handouts.

But you sound just like Obama, the government made the money we have and the individual had nothing to do with it. It was not not our ideas, our hard work, our doing without, our sacrificing, our businesses - it was all given to us by the government!

There is some "individual accountability", but you seem to either be ignorant of or different to, that there is a system designed to cut the knees off black people in the USA. Only since the 1960's has that system begun to be changed to a level playing field. For a brief time during Reconstruction, the field was level and Blacks were able to be successful. Then the KKK and other like groups began Lynching by the 1,000's and passing Jim Crow laws to, per MS Governor James Vardaman "keep the ******s in their place".

You seem to be ignorant of how Whites got government handouts. Blacks were excluded from the GI Bill post WWI until the 1960's. The GI Bill allowed 7.8 million white WWII soldiers to go to college. Blacks were not allowed to use government backed loans to buy houses. Remember the Ayers Case? Blacks were rejected admission to MSU, USM, and Ole Miss, due to being Black. There are literally hundreds of other examples.

You are projecting. I see individuals as individuals. But if what you say is right, why the vast white black wealth gap?

[Extendedcab]

There is some "individual accountability", but you seem to either be ignorant of or different to, that there is a system designed to cut the knees off black people in the USA. Only since the 1960's has that system begun to be changed to a level playing field. For a brief time during Reconstruction, the field was level and Blacks were able to be successful. Then the KKK and other like groups began Lynching by the 1,000's and passing Jim Crow laws to, per MS Governor James Vardaman "keep the ******s in their place".

You seem to be ignorant of how Whites got government handouts. Blacks were excluded from the GI Bill post WWI until the 1960's. The GI Bill allowed 7.8 million white WWII soldiers to go to college. Blacks were not allowed to use government backed loans to buy houses. Remember the Ayers Case? Blacks were rejected admission to MSU, USM, and Ole Miss, due to being Black. There are literally hundreds of other examples.

You are projecting. I see individuals as individuals. But if what you say is right, why the vast white black wealth gap?


Why? You are blind and miss the root cause! You think the root cause is lack of opportunity when in fact it is a lack of a caring family and the handout programs of the democratic party (they were meant to be a temporary hand up but turned into a multi-generational way of life - poverty).

70%+ percent of black households (2018 statistics) are single parent - usually a mom or grandmother. Black parents, statistically speaking, are AOL and don't care about their children or instill in them self worth, or the way out of poverty is through education and hard work, not by being on a some damn government handout program or by joining a gang or selling dope. That is why there is a gap, they are low to no skilled and can't make a decent living in today's modern- technological world.

The root cause is a lack of a 2 parent home - Mother and Father - the basic building block of society.

If blacks are excluded from participating in the main fabric of our economy (education, government, commercial, industrial, sports, etc) then how in the hell did the following blacks make it? It sure in the hell was not by being on a government handout program. And also notice alot of the ones on this list were before the 1960s.

African-American Firsts: Government

Local elected official: John Mercer Langston, 1855, town clerk of Brownhelm Township, Ohio.
State elected official: Alexander Lucius Twilight, 1836, the Vermont legislature.
Mayor of major city: Carl Stokes, Cleveland, Ohio, 1967–1971. The first black woman to serve as a mayor of a major U.S. city was Sharon Pratt Dixon Kelly, Washington, DC, 1991–1995.
Governor (appointed): P.B.S. Pinchback served as governor of Louisiana from Dec. 9, 1872–Jan. 13, 1873, during impeachment proceedings against the elected governor.
Governor (elected): L. Douglas Wilder, Virginia, 1990–1994. The only other elected black governor has been Deval Patrick, Massachusetts, 2007–2015
U.S. Representative: Joseph Rainey became a Congressman from South Carolina in 1870 and was reelected four more times. The first black female U.S. Representative was Shirley Chisholm, Congresswoman from New York, 1969–1983.
U.S. Senator: Hiram Revels became Senator from Mississippi from Feb. 25, 1870, to March 4, 1871, during Reconstruction. Edward Brooke became the first African-American Senator since Reconstruction, 1966–1979. Carol Mosely Braun became the first black woman Senator serving from 1992–1998 for the state of Illinois. (There have only been a total of five black senators in U.S. history: the remaining two are Blanche K. Bruce [1875–1881] and Barack Obama (2005–2008).
U.S. cabinet member: Robert C. Weaver, 1966–1968, Secretary of the Department of Housing and Urban Development under Lyndon Johnson; the first black female cabinet minister was Patricia Harris, 1977, Secretary of the Department of Housing and Urban Development under Jimmy Carter.
U.S. Secretary of State: Gen. Colin Powell, 2001–2004. The first black female Secretary of State was Condoleezza Rice, 2005–2009.
Major Party Nominee for President: Sen. Barack Obama, 2008. The Democratic Party selected him as its presidential nominee.
U.S. President: Sen. Barack Obama. Obama defeated Sen. John McCain in the general election on November 4, 2008, and was inaugurated as the 44th president of the United States on January 20, 2009.
U.S. First Lady: Michelle Obama became the nation's first black First Lady when her husband, Barack Obama, defeated Sen. John McCain in the general election on November 4, 2008.
First African-American Republican woman to serve in the House: Ludmya Bourdeau "Mia" Love won her race in Utah in the 2014 midterm elections.

African-American Firsts: Law

Editor, Harvard Law Review: Charles Hamilton Houston, 1919. Barack Obama became the first President of the Harvard Law Review.
Federal Judge: William Henry Hastie, 1946; Constance Baker Motley became the first black woman federal judge, 1966.
U.S. Supreme Court Justice: Thurgood Marshall, 1967–1991. Clarence Thomas became the second African American to serve on the Court in 1991.

African-American Firsts: Diplomacy

U.S. diplomat: Ebenezer D. Bassett, 1869, became minister-resident to Haiti; Patricia Harris became the first black female ambassador (1965; Luxembourg).
U.S. Representative to the UN: Andrew Young (1977–1979).
Nobel Peace Prize winner: Ralph J. Bunche received the prize in 1950 for mediating the Arab-Israeli truce. Martin Luther King, Jr., became the second African-American Peace Prize winner in 1964. (See King's Nobel acceptance speech.)

African-American Firsts: Military

Combat pilot: Georgia-born Eugene Jacques Bullard, 1917, denied entry into the U.S. Army Air Corps because of his race, served throughout World War I in the French Flying Corps. He received the Legion of Honor, France's highest honor, among many other decorations.
First Congressional Medal of Honor winner: Sgt. William H. Carney for bravery during the Civil War. He received his Congressional Medal of Honor in 1900.
General: Benjamin O. Davis, Sr., 1940–1948.
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff: Colin Powell, 1989–1993.

African-American Firsts: Science and Medicine

First patent holder: Thomas L. Jennings, 1821, for a dry-cleaning process. Sarah E. Goode, 1885, became the first African-American woman to receive a patent, for a bed that folded up into a cabinet.
M.D. degree: James McCune Smith, 1837, University of Glasgow; Rebecca Lee Crumpler became the first black woman to receive an M.D. degree. She graduated from the New England Female Medical College in 1864.
Inventor of the blood bank: Dr. Charles Drew, 1940.
Heart surgery pioneer: Daniel Hale Williams, 1893.
First astronaut: Robert H. Lawrence, Jr., 1967, was the first black astronaut, but he died in a plane crash during a training flight and never made it into space. Guion Bluford, 1983, became the first black astronaut to travel in space; Mae Jemison, 1992, became the first black female astronaut. Frederick D. Gregory, 1998, was the first African-American shuttle commander.

African-American Firsts: Scholarship

College graduate (B.A.): Alexander Lucius Twilight, 1823, Middlebury College; first black woman to receive a B.A. degree: Mary Jane Patterson, 1862, Oberlin College.
Ph.D.: Edward A. Bouchet, 1876, received a Ph.D. from Yale University. In 1921, three individuals became the first U.S. black women to earn Ph.D.s: Georgiana Simpson, University of Chicago; Sadie Tanner Mossell Alexander, University of Pennsylvania; and Eva Beatrice Dykes, Radcliffe College.
Rhodes Scholar: Alain L. Locke, 1907.
College president: Daniel A. Payne, 1856, Wilberforce University, Ohio.
Ivy League president: Ruth Simmons, 2001, Brown University.
See also Milestones in Black Education.

African-American Firsts: Literature

Novelist: Harriet Wilson, Our Nig (1859).
Poet: Lucy Terry, 1746, "Bar's Fight." It is her only surviving poem.
Poet (published): Phillis Wheatley, 1773, Poems on Various Subjects, Religious and Moral. Considered the founder of African-American literature.
Pulitzer Prize winner: Gwendolyn Brooks, 1950, won the Pulitzer Prize in poetry.
Pulitzer Prize winner in Drama: Charles Gordone, 1970, for his play No Place To Be Somebody.
Nobel Prize for Literature winner: Toni Morrison, 1993.
Poet Laureate: Robert Hayden, 1976–1978; first black woman Poet Laureate: Rita Dove, 1993–1995.

African-American Firsts: Music and Dance

Member of the New York City Opera: Todd Duncan, 1945.
Member of the Metropolitan Opera Company: Marian Anderson, 1955.
Male Grammy Award winner: Count Basie, 1958.
Female Grammy Award winner: Ella Fitzgerald, 1958.
Principal dancer in a major dance company: Arthur Mitchell, 1959, New York City Ballet.

African-American Firsts: Film

First Oscar: Hattie McDaniel, 1940, supporting actress, Gone with the Wind.
Oscar, Best Actor/Actress: Sidney Poitier, 1963, Lilies of the Field; Halle Berry, 2001, Monster's Ball.
Oscar, Best Actress Nominee: Dorothy Dandridge, 1954, Carmen Jones.
Film director: Oscar Micheaux, 1919, wrote, directed, and produced The Homesteader, a feature film.
Hollywood director: Gordon Parks directed and wrote The Learning Tree for Warner Brothers in 1969.

African-American Firsts: Television

Network television show host: Nat King Cole, 1956, "The Nat King Cole Show"; Oprah Winfrey became the first black woman television host in 1986, "The Oprah Winfrey Show."
Star of a network television show: Bill Cosby, 1965, "I Spy".
African-American Firsts: Sports

Major league baseball player: Jackie Robinson, 1947, Brooklyn Dodgers.
Elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame: Jackie Robinson, 1962.
NFL quarterback: Willie Thrower, 1953.
NFL football coach: Fritz Pollard, 1922–1937.
Golf champion: Tiger Woods, 1997, won the Masters golf tournament.
NHL hockey player: Willie O'Ree, 1958, Boston Bruins.1
World cycling champion: Marshall W. "Major" Taylor, 1899.
Tennis champion: Althea Gibson became the first black person to play in and win Wimbledon and the United States national tennis championship. She won both tournaments twice, in 1957 and 1958. In all, Gibson won 56 tournaments, including five Grand Slam singles events. The first black male champion was Arthur Ashe who won the 1968 U.S. Open, the 1970 Australian Open, and the 1975 Wimbledon championship.
Heavyweight boxing champion: Jack Johnson, 1908.
Olympic medalist (Summer games): George Poage, 1904, won two bronze medals in the 200 m hurdles and 400 m hurdles.
Olympic gold medalist (Summer games): John Baxter "Doc" Taylor, 1908, won a gold medal as part of the 4 x 400 m relay team.
Olympic gold medalist (Summer games; individual): DeHart Hubbard, 1924, for the long jump; the first woman was Alice Coachman, who won the high jump in 1948.
Olympic medalist (Winter games): Debi Thomas, 1988, won the bronze in figure skating.
Olympic gold medalist (Winter games): Vonetta Flowers, 2002, bobsled.
Olympic gold medalist (Winter games; individual): Shani Davis, 2006, 1,000 m speedskating.

Other African-American Firsts

Licensed Pilot: Bessie Coleman, 1921.
Millionaire: Madame C. J. Walker.
Billionaire: Robert Johnson, 2001, owner of Black Entertainment Television; Oprah Winfrey, 2003.
Portrayal on a postage stamp: Booker T. Washington, 1940 (and also 1956).
Miss America: Vanessa Williams, 1984, representing New York. When controversial photos surfaced and Williams resigned, Suzette Charles, the runner-up and also an African American, assumed the title. She represented New Jersey. Three additional African Americans have been Miss Americas: Debbye Turner (1990), Marjorie Vincent (1991), and Kimberly Aiken (1994).
Explorer, North Pole: Matthew A. Henson, 1909, accompanied Robert E. Peary on the first successful U.S. expedition to the North Pole.
Explorer, South Pole: George Gibbs, 1939–1941 accompanied Richard Byrd.
Flight around the world: Barrington Irving, 2007, from Miami Gardens, Florida, flew a Columbia 400 plane named Inspiration around the world in 96 days, 150 hours (March 23-June 27).