Buy Or Sell: Croom is Better than Moorhead?

[ShotgunDawg]

Would Leach be taking over a better program if Croom would've coached the past two years or Moorhead?

For me, it's Croom.

Neither one could install their offense in the time they were here, both were decent recruiters although I think Croom may have attracted a higher quality makeup type, but Croom, if nothing else, could build culture. The players respected him and for that I think Leach would be taking over a better program if Croom would've coached the past two years rather than Leach.

[BrunswickDawg]

I think it's pick your poison.
Croom had no offense, still had issues with culture (albeit improved), and purely lucked into his only bowl season thanks to defense and special teams play.

JoMo had some offense, had issues with culture, and parlayed a metric shit ton of talent on defense into two disappointing seasons of underachievement.

I think Croom may have left things a little better, but JoMo will be easier to recover from.

[ShotgunDawg]

I think it's pick your poison.
Croom had no offense, still had issues with culture (albeit improved), and purely lucked into his only bowl season thanks to defense and special teams play.

JoMo had some offense, had issues with culture, and parlayed a metric shit ton of talent on defense into two disappointing seasons of underachievement.

I think Croom may have left things a little better, but JoMo will be easier to recover from.

Mullen recovered quickly from Croom.

No telling how long it'll take to toughen up the Charmin left by Joe

One thing though is that I think the players knew they needed a new coach after Croom whereas the Moorhead players may not have that awareness

[Cooterpoot]

Croom didn't piss away discipline. He brought discipline. Both were stubborn and had awful offensive schemes. Slight edge to Croom.

[confucius say]

The title of the thread makes it seem you like are asking who did a better job as a head coach. I'd go with joe.

But if what you're asking is who left the program in better shape on the way out the door, I think that's to be determined still.

[KOdawg1]

Moorhead's offense wasn't putrid against terrible teams. Croom lost to Maine.

But Moorhead bred a team full of pu$$ies in just 2 years. Croom's teams sucked but at least they were tough. Give me Croom.

[RiverCityDawg]

Interesting question. The hard part about this is the difference in what those two coaches took over.

The Croom tenure seemed worse and we obviously won more with Joe. But as someone who was at State during the transition from Jackie to Croom, I can tell you it was a major cleansing and redirection of the culture. It had gotten really bad at the end for Jackie. Yes, Croom had his issues too (the on campus gun thing), but overall it just seemed like he had assembled a better group of humans.

Moorhead went the opposite direction taking over a really good culture and spoiling it in a pretty short period of time.

I'm convinced if Joe was still our coach we would be getting ready for a 4 or at best 5 win season with the train plummeting downward from there. Maybe it's just recency bias, but I'm leaning towards a soft buy that Croom was better. Wow.

[ShotgunDawg]

The title of the thread makes it seem you like are asking who did a better job as a head coach. I'd go with joe.

But if what you're asking is who left the program in better shape on the way out the door, I think that's to be determined still.

I think they go hand in hand.

It's hard to directly compare the two because they took over drastically different programs.

IMO, the number 1 job of any coach is to leave the program better than they found it. Moorhead did not do that, and while it may have been tiny, I think you could say Croom actually did do that.

[BrunswickDawg]

Mullen recovered quickly from Croom.

No telling how long it'll take to toughen up the Charmin left by Joe

One thing though is that I think the players knew they needed a new coach after Croom whereas the Moorhead players may not have that awareness

But, you are talking about overall state of the program. Croom and LT left us undermanned, undersized, underfunded, and behind in facilities. Mullen had a ton more to overcome and build.
I think the program overall is way healthier than it was when Mullen took over. Player attitudes are the easiest of problems to deal with compared to what Mullen faced.

[ShotgunDawg]

But, you are talking about overall state of the program. Croom and LT left us undermanned, undersized, underfunded, and behind in facilities. Mullen had a ton more to overcome and build.
I think the program overall is way healthier than it was when Mullen took over. Player attitudes are the easiest of problems to deal with compared to what Mullen faced.

True program is in a better spot now than when Mullen took over but that's mostly because it was already at that level before Moorhead took over. If we'd have kept Moorhead for another few years, it may have been lower.

[Cooterpoot]

But, you are talking about overall state of the program. Croom and LT left us undermanned, undersized, underfunded, and behind in facilities. Mullen had a ton more to overcome and build.
I think the program overall is way healthier than it was when Mullen took over. Player attitudes are the easiest of problems to deal with compared to what Mullen faced.

Mullen was a couple plays away from winning 7 games year one.

[BrunswickDawg]

True program is in a better spot now than when Mullen took over but that's mostly because it was already at that level before Moorhead took over. If we'd have kept Moorhead for another few years, it may have been lower.

I agree. And I think even 1 more season under JoMo would have meant a much greater level of damage. I think still having Mullen players on the roster will also benefit us in the transition. There are still a lot of guys around who know the Mullen way was superior to the JoMo way, and will embrace what Leach is doing. 1 more season would have seen almost all of those guys gone, and with it any memory of hard work.

[BrunswickDawg]

Mullen was a couple plays away from winning 7 games year one.

And? Mullen took over a completely different program in terms of everything. No SEC payday. No NEZ. No Modern football training facility. He had a 5'7" walk on playing QB. He did a spectacular job making that a competitive program quickly.
But today's program is at a far better place then it was then, and it's not even close. It took shitty coaching and culture to win 6 last year - but we still have all the pluses of what Mullen, the Ninja, and the Cheerleader added. That will make Leach's job much easier than Mullen's, and means that overall the program is in a better place then it was in 2009.

[tcdog70]

the slytanic- was terrible -and it isn't close

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Croom was worse by a mile.

True both Croom and Moorhead never got their offense going , but Croom had 3 more years to do so.

Croom never instilled discipline on the team. Thinking otherwise is just revisionist history.

Lastly, at least Moorhead beat bad teams. Croom struggled with every game no matter who the opponent was. Croom was the worst coach in our history by a long shot.

[bulldawg28]

Moorehead was worse. It took Croom 5 years to totally tank. Moorehead in 1.

[confucius say]

I think they go hand in hand.

It's hard to directly compare the two because they took over drastically different programs.

IMO, the number 1 job of any coach is to leave the program better than they found it. Moorhead did not do that, and while it may have been tiny, I think you could say Croom actually did do that.

So if that's the number 1 job of any coach, you're saying that croom (who left the program a tiny bit better than he found it) was a better head coach at state than Jackie (who left the program worse than he found it)? That's not true.

Joe > Croom.

[BeastMan]

Croom inherited a dumpster fire. Joe inherited a ready made 10 win team. Croom did a better job at MSU than JoMo and it’s not even remotely close.

[confucius say]

Moorehead was worse. It took Croom 5 years to totally tank. Moorehead in 1.

Croom won only 3 games three times and 4 games once. That's totally tanking. Joe sucked and had more talent, but he never totally tanked. Losing to OM and KY and ULL and going 3-9 in 2019 would have been totally tanking.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Moorehead was worse. It took Croom 5 years to totally tank. Moorehead in 1.

So you are saying winning 8 games is totally tanking, but going 3-8 with a loss to non division-1 Maine and UAB is not ? Got it

[FISHDAWG]

Croom inherited a dumpster fire. Joe inherited a ready made 10 win team. Croom did a better job at MSU than JoMo and it?s not even remotely close.

this all day long .... and Croom stepped straight into probation when he set foot on campus ... If Croom had what JoMo had to work with I think he wins a few more games than he did... but I also know for fact that Croom had lost the respect of a large portion of the team - so if we're picking our poison at least Croom beat Bama back to back (even if they sucked at the time)

[confucius say]

So you are saying winning 8 games is totally tanking, but going 3-8 with a loss to non division-1 Maine and UAB is not ? Got it

Don't forget a 20 point loss to 2-9 Vandy that same year we loss to Maine and UAB.

[ShotgunDawg]

As expected, this is a great discussion. Really puts Joe into perspective

[Captain Falcon]

I think Joe is better, but timing is the key here. We got rid of Joe under tenuous circumstances but still before it totally bottomed out. Croom was canned after the most humiliating Egg Bowl showing in many people?s lifetime.

My issue with Croom has more to do with 2008 than some of the early losses to teams like Maine or insert C-USA team. He built it up in 2007 to what seemed like the start of something good, and then immediately crashed the following year. LA Tech, 3-2, and 45-0 were more infuriating to me than losing to Maine in Year 1.

Moorhead was bad, yes. Moorhead also did not lose the kind of games Croom lost. Both of them got embarrassed by good teams, but Croom got embarrassed by some bad teams.

Had we waited another year to fire Joe then it would?ve been a more legitimate debate, because I think we would?ve gone 3-9 or 4-8 this year and it would?ve taken a while for us to get back going. Making the change when we did allows us to minimize the long term negative impact Joe had. Croom?s impact was minimized by the fact that 2009-2010 was, in my opinion, peak Mullen, and the best coaching job he did here.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Croom is by far worse than Moorhead. By far. The freshness of Moorhead is doing a lot of clouding of the mind. It was time for Moorhead to leave but thinking Croom was better is insane. Croom not counting the fluke 2007 year won back to back games once in his other 4 years. He had 4 losing streaks of at least 3 games. He coached 40 games against P5 teams he scored 30 or more 6 times. SIX TIMES!! Joe failed no doubt about it but Croom was next level bad minus all the "discipline" he installed. Let's be honest after Jackie let the program fall his last few years hell even Moorhead would've been looked at as a disciplinarian.

[R2Dawg]

Mullen was a couple plays away from winning 7 games year one.

Yep. A few bad officiating calls cost us the game against a ranked GaTech. One play call/execution against LSU and we win that game.

Mullen took a sick program with same players and had us competing with top 25 talent. The issue was scheme and not putting players in a position to win. Croom had his teams play tough even though talent wasn't really there. Mullen didn't have to do a 180 on culture. Not saying it was perfect but much different challenge right now.

I'll take Croom over Moorhead. Imagine if we gave Moorhead 5 years?

[confucius say]

Croom is by far worse than Moorhead. By far. The freshness of Moorhead is doing a lot of clouding of the mind. It was time for Moorhead to leave but thinking Croom was better is insane. Croom not counting the fluke 2007 year won back to back games once in his other 4 years. He had 4 losing streaks of at least 3 games. He coached 40 games against P5 teams he scored 30 or more 6 times. SIX TIMES!! Joe failed no doubt about it but Croom was next level bad minus all the "discipline" he installed. Let's be honest after Jackie let the program fall his last few years hell even Moorhead would've been looked at as a disciplinarian.

Agree. Honestly joe is between Jackie and Croom, but is closer to Jackie than he is to Croom.

[bobcat91]

Moorhead, but it's by a hair.

Croom was regularly losing to Maine, La Tech, Vandy, etc.

Moorhead in two years had two bowl games and two wins over UM. He also recruited better.

Both were lousy coaches in a race to the bottom.

In retrospect I wanted Croom gone in year three, and was stubborn on Moorhead and wanted to see what he did through his second season. Which was a flaming disaster.

Both said really stupid things about the fans. Croom said he didnt care what the fans thought. Moorhead told us to pound sand and kick rocks. Both indefensible.

Glad both are gone.

[hailstate17]

I think people remember croom for way better than he was. The only decent year we had, was the single luckiest season in college football history. Go back and look at the numbers if you don?t believe me. We won 3 sec games in which we barely gained 200 yards in. If a tipped pick six against Auburn, a brutal decision by John Parker Wilson, and coach O punts and we go 4-8 that season. Moorhead was bad for sure, but Croom was unwatchable.

[TrapGame]

What happened to Moorhead should have happened to Croom. After year three Croom should have been canned. Moorhead's offense is light years better than Croom's god awful Trash Coast Cluster. Remember one spring game under Croom neither offense scored a TD and not one forward pass was completed.

[HoopsDawg]

It's unclear, but I give the nod to Croom over Moorhead. Croom inherited an absolute train wreck of a program. And the SEC and MSU didn't have the resources and advantages we have now. Croom still managed to win SEC COY of the year, beat Bama twice, and beat UF. His 2009 class that he put in place for Mullen was the best in school history.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Croom was lazy and hardheaded... JoeMo was just hardheaded.

[SheltonChoked]

Would Leach be taking over a better program if Croom would've coached the past two years or Moorhead?

For me, it's Croom.

Neither one could install their offense in the time they were here, both were decent recruiters although I think Croom may have attracted a higher quality makeup type, but Croom, if nothing else, could build culture. The players respected him and for that I think Leach would be taking over a better program if Croom would've coached the past two years rather than Leach.

While neither was good, Moorhead has left the cupboard more full than Croom did. (The 2008 MSU team had 6 future NFL players, We have had 5 drafted each of the last 2 years).

Croom had his problems with discipline as well, but our offense was horrible under Croom. In 2008, we AVERAGED 275 yards of offense a game.

Leach is inherited a RS FR 4* QB and a great RB. Mullen had a Relf and Dixon. Leach has some experience in the WR. Mullen started 5 True FR at WR. The 2 "experienced WR" in 2009 caught passes for 141 yards.

The 2009 Defense was loaded with Mullen recruits.

[BB30]

Some of yall must not remember the Croom years like I do.

This IMO isn't even worth comparing. The Croom era was an absolute dumpster. He improved the culture a little bit but not by as much of a margin as some of yall apparently think.

We were absolutely terrible in most phases of the game. We were just as boneheaded and dumb as we were under JOMO. We had the same issue with pre snap penalties/offsides etc. that we had under Joe.

Joe would at least try to make an adjustment, Croom on the other hand was determined that that HB dive on 1st and 2nd down were going to work every series regardless of who we were playing.

I'm surprised we aren't all blind from having to watch the Croom era, it was that bad. I couldn't survive another Croom era ha.

[StateDawg44]

Some of yall must not remember the Croom years like I do.

This IMO isn't even worth comparing. The Croom era was an absolute dumpster. He improved the culture a little bit but not by as much of a margin as some of yall apparently think.

We were absolutely terrible in most phases of the game. We were just as boneheaded and dumb as we were under JOMO. We had the same issue with pre snap penalties/offsides etc. that we had under Joe.

Joe would at least try to make an adjustment, Croom on the other hand was determined that that HB dive on 1st and 2nd down were going to work every series regardless of who we were playing.

I'm surprised we aren't all blind from having to watch the Croom era, it was that bad. I couldn't survive another Croom era ha.


I must've missed all of these adjustments.

But yes, Croom did suck also. Hard to pick a biggest loser coach though.

[ShotgunDawg]

I must've missed all of these adjustments.

I didn't miss their confused faces though

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1045633264/croom_400x400.jpg

https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/41/451/9451041.jpg?fit=bounds&crop=1200:630,offset-y0.50&width=1200&height=630

[FISHDAWG]

I must've missed all of these adjustments.

But yes, Croom did suck also. Hard to pick a biggest loser coach though.

his adjustment was to have Fitz run on the left side of center as opposed to the usual right side of center ... other than that I have no idea of "other" adjustments last season except moving his residence much further North

[fader2103]

Croom beat Saban. I don't care what kind of talent Bama had at the time compared to what they had now. They still out recruited us then.

[Indndawg]

Croom came in and got alot of the problems players out and did a pretty good job recruiting. Just a terrible game planner and lazy.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

We almost missed the opening kick at La Tech because Croom was reading the paper at the hotel and all the assistants were scared to say anything

[HoopsDawg]

We almost missed the opening kick at La Tech because Croom was reading the paper at the hotel and all the assistants were scared to say anything

I don't care if that's true or not, that's hilarious.

[hailstate17]

[QUOTE=Leeshouldveflanked;1251770]We almost missed the opening kick at La Tech because Croom was reading the paper at the hotel and all the assistants were scared to say anything[/QUOTE

Hahahhaha is this true?

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Croom beat Saban. I don't care what kind of talent Bama had at the time compared to what they had now. They still out recruited us then.

Who cares? Our fans have some kind of complex with Alabama. That team sucked. They lost to UL Monroe the very next week at home.

[NCDawg]

Croom inherited a dumpster fire. Joe inherited a ready made 10 win team. Croom did a better job at MSU than JoMo and it?s not even remotely close.

I agree. Don't forget, Croom beat Alabama and Auburn in the same year with Saban and Tuberville coaching Alabama and Auburn, respectively.

[Offshore Dawg]

What difference does it make. Leach is here now !!

[Cooterpoot]

While neither was good, Moorhead has left the cupboard more full than Croom did. (The 2008 MSU team had 6 future NFL players, We have had 5 drafted each of the last 2 years).

Croom had his problems with discipline as well, but our offense was horrible under Croom. In 2008, we AVERAGED 275 yards of offense a game.

Leach is inherited a RS FR 4* QB and a great RB. Mullen had a Relf and Dixon. Leach has some experience in the WR. Mullen started 5 True FR at WR. The 2 "experienced WR" in 2009 caught passes for 141 yards.

The 2009 Defense was loaded with Mullen recruits.

Those guys drafted weren't Moorhead's kids. Dixon was as good or better than any RB on our roster now. That 4 star QB will be sitting behind Costello or transferring out. This true freshmen WRs are probably better than what started here last year. Our WR talent was rock bottom. Croom didn't leave an empty roster. Mullen damn sure didn't.
We've had three horrible HCs since Bellard retired and two good ones.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

I agree. Don't forget, Croom beat Alabama and Auburn in the same year with Saban and Tuberville coaching Alabama and Auburn, respectively.

We won that Auburn game by 5 points after 5 Auburn turnovers. The offense had 213 total yards and 41 passing yards. That 2007 team sucked and was one of the luckiest college football teams I can ever remember.

[R2Dawg]

We won that Auburn game by 5 points after 5 Auburn turnovers. The offense had 213 total yards and 41 passing yards. That 2007 team sucked and was one of the luckiest college football teams I can ever remember.

True on all accounts. We were very lucky and playing with fools gold that year. Croom acted like he was on verge of building to a championship in 08 - Not. Those Aub and Bama teams would get beat by 5 TDs by todays teams. Apples and oranges.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

[QUOTE=Leeshouldveflanked;1251770]We almost missed the opening kick at La Tech because Croom was reading the paper at the hotel and all the assistants were scared to say anything[/QUOTE

Hahahhaha is this true?

I assume this is true, as I have heard this story from more than one source...Croom didnt want to play the game in the first place... The plan was for team to fly down to game and back same day... if I am not mistaken the team stayed in Columbus Ms, had the pre-game meal in Columbus, after the meal everyone is ready to go to plane at GTR and Croom is sitting there reading the paper... finally someone says coach, we have to go now...team rushes to GTR plane hauls ass to Shreveport and busses haul ass to Ruston... After getting to Ruston, they hastily get dressed in less than ideal locker room and rush out to field way behind schedule for pregame warmups...get ass handed to them by La Tech buss back to Shreveport and fly back to GTR.... such was the days of LT and Croom.

[HoopsDawg]

[QUOTE=hailstate17;1251773]

I assume this is true, as I have heard this story from more than one source...Croom didn?t want to play the game in the first place... The plan was for team to fly down to game and back same day... if I am not mistaken the team stayed in Columbus Ms, had the pre-game meal in Columbus, after the meal everyone is ready to go to plane at GTR and Croom is sitting there reading the paper... finally someone says ?coach, we have to go now?...team rushes to GTR plane hauls ass to Shreveport and busses haul ass to Ruston... After getting to Ruston, they hastily get dressed in less than ideal ?locker room? and rush out to field way behind schedule for pregame warmups...get ass handed to them by La Tech buss back to Shreveport and fly back to GTR.... such was the days of LT and Croom.

also heard he fell asleep on a QB recruits coach after a big meal.

[Captain Falcon]

I will put it to you this way: What was the maddest you ever got about a Moorhead loss? Some will say 2018 Kentucky or Florida, some will say 2019 Auburn or Tennessee, some will say the 2019 Louisville game. All rightfully infuriating, yes, but all losses to teams that were at least decent and in most cases quite good.

Now let's take a look at Croom's Greatest Hits:

Maine
18 point loss to 2-9 Vandy
14 point loss to 7-5 UAB
17 point loss to 4-7 Ole Miss
12 point loss to 6-6 Houston
Home loss to 4-8 Tulane
Scored 10 points against 3-9 UAB only to escape with an OT win
3 point loss to Georgia where we punted from their 30

And that's just the first three years... He had a freaking 9-25 (4-20) record and we gave him two more years. He should've been gone long before he lost in Ruston, long before the 3-2 game, long before Ole Miss had more points than we had yards of total offense in his last Egg Bowl.

Moorhead sucked... but he could coach circles around Croom.

[SheltonChoked]

Those guys drafted weren't Moorhead's kids. Dixon was as good or better than any RB on our roster now. That 4 star QB will be sitting behind Costello or transferring out. This true freshmen WRs are probably better than what started here last year. Our WR talent was rock bottom. Croom didn't leave an empty roster. Mullen damn sure didn't.
We've had three horrible HCs since Bellard retired and two good ones.

Moorhead recruited better.

And Kylin Hill is a better RB than Dixon.

Mullen Recruited all of those Freshman WR, none of them would have come to room shit coast offense...

Never said Moorhead was a good head coach, but Croom was the worst we have had, probably ever.

Some of y'all need to watch some of those Croom era games.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

I will put it to you this way: What was the maddest you ever got about a Moorhead loss? Some will say 2018 Kentucky or Florida, some will say 2019 Auburn or Tennessee, some will say the 2019 Louisville game. All rightfully infuriating, yes, but all losses to teams that were at least decent and in most cases quite good.

Now let's take a look at Croom's Greatest Hits:

Maine
18 point loss to 2-9 Vandy
14 point loss to 7-5 UAB
17 point loss to 4-7 Ole Miss
12 point loss to 6-6 Houston
Home loss to 4-8 Tulane
Scored 10 points against 3-9 UAB only to escape with an OT win
3 point loss to Georgia where we punted from their 30

And that's just the first three years... He had a freaking 9-25 (4-20) record and we gave him two more years. He should've been gone long before he lost in Ruston, long before the 3-2 game, long before Ole Miss had more points than we had yards of total offense in his last Egg Bowl.

Moorhead sucked... but he could coach circles around Croom.

That Tulane game in 06' was the final straw for me. The school was barely removed a year from Katrina, and barely had a football team. The final score was 32-29 but they totally skull drug us the entire game. It was pathetic. I think we were losing something like 32-6 entering the 4th quarter. They probably had 50 total players.

[dawgday166]

Moorhead recruited better.

And Kylin Hill is a better RB than Dixon.

Mullen Recruited all of those Freshman WR, none of them would have come to room shit coast offense...

Never said Moorhead was a good head coach, but Croom was the worst we have had, probably ever.

Some of y'all need to watch some of those Croom era games.

You're delirious if you think Hill better than Dixon. We'll see this year but he ain't been so far.

Croom recruited a lot of the guys on the 2010 team.

Not saying Croom is better ... it's really hard to tell. I do think Croom may have won more games with the 2018 team tho ... although he wouldn't have had Shoop as DC which is why we even won 8.

[Todd4State]

Moorhead is the better coach.

Croom did a better job here with what he inherited.

And why do our fans insist on running down the 2007 team? Last time I checked playing good defense and special teams was part of the game. I could make an argument that 1980 was just as lucky with their multiple goal line stands. Or half the 1999 season.

[TrapGame]

We almost missed the opening kick at La Tech because Croom was reading the paper at the hotel and all the assistants were scared to say anything

I believe it. If he can fall asleep on a recruit's couch anything's possible.

[hailstate17]

Moorhead is the better coach.

Croom did a better job here with what he inherited.

And why do our fans insist on running down the 2007 team? Last time I checked playing good defense and special teams was part of the game. I could make an argument that 1980 was just as lucky with their multiple goal line stands. Or half the 1999 season.



Because winning games because of pick 6?s isn?t a sustainable thing. If I?m not mistaken, croom blamed the 2008 seasons struggles on the defenses inability to score. Croom thought that 2007 season earned him several more years.

[bulldawg28]

I will put it to you this way: What was the maddest you ever got about a Moorhead loss? Some will say 2018 Kentucky or Florida, some will say 2019 Auburn or Tennessee, some will say the 2019 Louisville game. All rightfully infuriating, yes, but all losses to teams that were at least decent and in most cases quite good.

Now let's take a look at Croom's Greatest Hits:

Maine
18 point loss to 2-9 Vandy
14 point loss to 7-5 UAB
17 point loss to 4-7 Ole Miss
12 point loss to 6-6 Houston
Home loss to 4-8 Tulane
Scored 10 points against 3-9 UAB only to escape with an OT win
3 point loss to Georgia where we punted from their 30

And that's just the first three years... He had a freaking 9-25 (4-20) record and we gave him two more years. He should've been gone long before he lost in Ruston, long before the 3-2 game, long before Ole Miss had more points than we had yards of total offense in his last Egg Bowl.

Moorhead sucked... but he could coach circles around Croom.

I recant my vote.

[confucius say]

I recant my vote.

I laughed out loud

[dawgoneyall]

Which is better dying form C-19 or the Flu?

[Churchill]

I'll take Croom every time. Moorhead did major damage in a short period of time...and it will take years to recover.

[Todd4State]

Because winning games because of pick 6?s isn?t a sustainable thing. If I?m not mistaken, croom blamed the 2008 seasons struggles on the defenses inability to score. Croom thought that 2007 season earned him several more years.

I get that. But I feel like it's disrespectful to the players on that team.

Lucky or not- they made plays when it counted and won the games. It's not Derek Pegues's fault that he was a beast that year.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I'll take Croom every time. Moorhead did major damage in a short period of time...and it will take years to recover.

Most here are expecting us to be a bowl team this year. We wanted to build Mullen a statue after winning 5 games. That's how bad Croom was.

[Todd4State]

Most here are expecting us to be a bowl team this year. We wanted to build Mullen a statue after winning 5 games. That's how bad Croom was.

There is always a lot of context when it comes to coaches.

Jackie probably underachieved in 1991 but because it had been so long since we had a winning season people were very happy.

Dan had a season where he only won one more game than Croom- but he won the Egg Bowl and the team "looked better" so people were happy.

Moorhead had a season where he won eight games- better than Dan or Jackie but because of the expectations people were not happy.

[Reunion Dog]

Some of you people are just plain STUPID!

If you think for a damn second that Dumbo Joe was a better Coach than Croom... You don't know crap or anything that inspired during his time.

Yes, the last game he coached was embarrassing... But the week before he beat a ranked Arkansas team.

He didn't have 1/1000 of the financial resources State has now or even preceding his hire like Dumbo Joe did.

Also... Croom beat Bama TWICE!! Once in Tuscaloosa and also beat Saban in Starkville. You read that.. CROOM BEAT BAMA TWICE!!

I don't care if Bama wasn't Bama then... Mullet NEVER BEAT BAMA (and should have at least twice) and Dumbo got his ass handed to him both times, even with the #1 ranked defense in the country.

So Croom did something that neither, Shira, Tyler, Bellard, Feller, Mullen or Dumbo Joe EVER DID!!

We are 3-17 versus Bama in the last 20 years.

Croom has 2 of those Victories...

You people need to find something else to discuss about State that actually means something... Like how Cohen is still the AD after screwing up such bad hires in both Baseball & football & paying Leach $5M.... Which is an absolute JOKE!! Why pay his so much... Only because he offered once and struck out.. then WHIFFED on 2 other coaches and then having to PAY such a stupid price when he had to go back sucking up to Leach! And then to run off the BEST COACH on Campus (Vic Schaefer) who has ACTUALLY PLAYED IN not 1 but 2 National Championships WHILE COACHING @ MISSISSIPPI STATE... and yet Cohen still has a job here?

Give me a break!

Y'all need to start asking the right questions about why all this is happening... Vic didn't want to leave State. He was pushed out...

But anyone that thinks Dumbo Joe did a better job while coach @ State then Croom did... Is just a typical ole State fan that is CLUELESS & will always deny how badly our Athletic Department lacks LEADERSHIP...

Enjoy sucking every stupid thing that Steve R. says. He is NOTHING put Cohen's PR FOS mouthpiece..

[confucius say]

Some of you people are just plain STUPID!

If you think for a damn second that Dumbo Joe was a better Coach than Croom... You don't know crap or anything that inspired during his time.

Yes, the last game he coached was embarrassing... But the week before he beat a ranked Arkansas team.

He didn't have 1/1000 of the financial resources State has now or even preceding his hire like Dumbo Joe did.

Also... Croom beat Bama TWICE!! Once in Tuscaloosa and also beat Saban in Starkville. You read that.. CROOM BEAT BAMA TWICE!!

I don't care if Bama wasn't Bama then... Mullet NEVER BEAT BAMA (and should have at least twice) and Dumbo got his ass handed to him both times, even with the #1 ranked defense in the country.

So Croom did something that neither, Shira, Tyler, Bellard, Feller, Mullen or Dumbo Joe EVER DID!!

We are 3-17 versus Bama in the last 20 years.

Croom has 2 of those Victories...

You people need to find something else to discuss about State that actually means something... Like how Cohen is still the AD after screwing up such bad hires in both Baseball & football & paying Leach $5M.... Which is an absolute JOKE!! Why pay his so much... Only because he offered once and struck out.. then WHIFFED on 2 other coaches and then having to PAY such a stupid price when he had to go back sucking up to Leach! And then to run off the BEST COACH on Campus (Vic Schaefer) who has ACTUALLY PLAYED IN not 1 but 2 National Championships WHILE COACHING @ MISSISSIPPI STATE... and yet Cohen still has a job here?

Give me a break!

Y'all need to start asking the right questions about why all this is happening... Vic didn't want to leave State. He was pushed out...

But anyone that thinks Dumbo Joe did a better job while coach @ State then Croom did... Is just a typical ole State fan that is CLUELESS & will always deny how badly our Athletic Department lacks LEADERSHIP...

Enjoy sucking every stupid thing that Steve R. says. He is NOTHING put Cohen's PR FOS mouthpiece..

Go to bed. You're drunk.
Ark came into that game in 2008 at 4-6. Left 4-7. They were nowhere close to being ranked.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Go to bed. You're drunk.
Ark came into that game in 2008 at 4-6. Left 4-7. They were nowhere close to being ranked.

Facts are hard.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Some of you people are just plain STUPID!

If you think for a damn second that Dumbo Joe was a better Coach than Croom... You don't know crap or anything that inspired during his time.

Yes, the last game he coached was embarrassing... But the week before he beat a ranked Arkansas team.

He didn't have 1/1000 of the financial resources State has now or even preceding his hire like Dumbo Joe did.

Also... Croom beat Bama TWICE!! Once in Tuscaloosa and also beat Saban in Starkville. You read that.. CROOM BEAT BAMA TWICE!!

I don't care if Bama wasn't Bama then... Mullet NEVER BEAT BAMA (and should have at least twice) and Dumbo got his ass handed to him both times, even with the #1 ranked defense in the country.

So Croom did something that neither, Shira, Tyler, Bellard, Feller, Mullen or Dumbo Joe EVER DID!!

We are 3-17 versus Bama in the last 20 years.

Croom has 2 of those Victories...

You people need to find something else to discuss about State that actually means something... Like how Cohen is still the AD after screwing up such bad hires in both Baseball & football & paying Leach $5M.... Which is an absolute JOKE!! Why pay his so much... Only because he offered once and struck out.. then WHIFFED on 2 other coaches and then having to PAY such a stupid price when he had to go back sucking up to Leach! And then to run off the BEST COACH on Campus (Vic Schaefer) who has ACTUALLY PLAYED IN not 1 but 2 National Championships WHILE COACHING @ MISSISSIPPI STATE... and yet Cohen still has a job here?

Give me a break!

Y'all need to start asking the right questions about why all this is happening... Vic didn't want to leave State. He was pushed out...

But anyone that thinks Dumbo Joe did a better job while coach @ State then Croom did... Is just a typical ole State fan that is CLUELESS & will always deny how badly our Athletic Department lacks LEADERSHIP...

Enjoy sucking every stupid thing that Steve R. says. He is NOTHING put Cohen's PR FOS mouthpiece..


Derp. There is the Bama obsession I was talking about earlier. Croom was awful in every way.

[SheltonChoked]

You're delirious if you think Hill better than Dixon. We'll see this year but he ain't been so far.

Croom recruited a lot of the guys on the 2010 team.

Not saying Croom is better ... it's really hard to tell. I do think Croom may have won more games with the 2018 team tho ... although he wouldn't have had Shoop as DC which is why we even won 8.


Croom would have won less games because his offense would have been sub 115 like it was every year he was here. We would have run the ball 30 times a game with him and never the qb. We would have had a 5'8" walkon at qb like we did in year 4 under Croom.

Croom gets credit for Dixon, Sherrod, and Kyle Love in 2009. The rest were Mullen guys.

I love AD. He was wasted here under an in over his head, horrible, head coach. Hill is the better back.

Dixon looked like a better back because he carried the ball so much more than Hill. Because he was our only offense.

Dixon averaged 14 carries a game as a freshman, 22 carries per game as a soph, 16 carries a game as a JR. NOt counting his Sr year as that was Mullen. His highest YPC under Croom was 4.4.

Hill averaged 6 carries a game as a freshman, 11 carries per game as a soph, 18 carries a game as a JR. His LOWEST YPC was 5.0.

They both had a similar number of carries per game as JR's

In 12 games as a Jr, Dixon had 197 carries for 869 Yards, 7 Rushing touchdowns, 20 receptions for 117 yards 2 Receiving touchdowns. That's 217 touches, for 986, yards, and 9 TD's

In 13 games as a JR, Hill had 242 carries for 1350 yards and 10 Rushing touchdowns. 18 receptions for 180 yards, 1 Receiving touchdown. That's 260 touches for 1530 yards and 11 TD's.

Kyin almost broke Dixons rushing record this year while carrying the ball less in more games.

[dawgday166]

Kyin almost broke Dixons rushing record this year while carrying the ball less in more games.

Last year Hill gained all his yds against UL, USM, KSU, UK, TAM (couple of wide open very long runs in 2nd half when TAM was half-asleep with 21+ pt lead), Ark, ACU, and OM. All of those teams sucked except for TAM.

Against AU gained 45yd/17 carries, TN 13/11, LSU 34/15, Bama 35/16, Lville 3yds on 7 carries.

Conclusion - against decent competition he has disappeared more times than not. He isn't that powerful, doesn't have breakaway speed or elusiveness either. Also limps off a good bit against good teams and then turns around and comes right back in the game. He doesn't pass block either.

Having said that ... maybe Leach will work with him and make him a back that can make an NFL roster next year. Some of his flaws may be due to not getting good coaching. He still has quite a ways to go to get to Edwards-Helaire level tho.

[bluelightstar]

There's really no way to tell. I think the fairest question is do you think Moorhead would've done worse than 21-38 if he had taken over after Jackie, and do you think Croom would have done better than 14-12 if he'd taken over after Mullen? I think the answer is yes to both of those questions.

[SheltonChoked]

Last year Hill gained all his yds against UL, USM, KSU, UK, TAM (couple of wide open very long runs in 2nd half when TAM was half-asleep with 21+ pt lead), Ark, ACU, and OM. All of those teams sucked except for TAM.

Against AU gained 45yd/17 carries, TN 13/11, LSU 34/15, Bama 35/16, Lville 3yds on 7 carries.

Conclusion - against decent competition he has disappeared more times than not. He isn't that powerful, doesn't have breakaway speed or elusiveness either. Also limps off a good bit against good teams and then turns around and comes right back in the game. He doesn't pass block either.

Having said that ... maybe Leach will work with him and make him a back that can make an NFL roster next year. Some of his flaws may be due to not getting good coaching. He still has quite a ways to go to get to Edwards-Helaire level tho.

Where did dixon make his hay in the croom years? You should go watch those games. You obviously drank too much then and blocked them out.

Let's see the stats for Dixon...

La Tech 18 carries 91 yards Bad team
SE LA 18 carries 81 yards Bad team
Auburn 7 carries 5 yards Good team
LSU 15 carries 50 yards Good team
GaTech 13 carries 94 yards Good team
Vandy 27 carries 107 yards Good team
Tenn 15 carries 46 yards Bad team
Middle Tenn 27 carries 126 yards Bad Team
Kentucky 15 carries 48 yards Bad team
Bama 11 carries 26 yards Good Team
Ark 23 carries 179 yards Bad team
Ole Miss 8 carries 17 yards Bad team

I'm not shitting on Dixon, but Hill is a much better back than you think he is.

[dawgday166]

Where did dixon make his hay in the croom years? You should go watch those games. You obviously drank too much then and blocked them out.

Let's see the stats for Dixon...

La Tech 18 carries 91 yards Bad team
SE LA 18 carries 81 yards Bad team
Auburn 7 carries 5 yards Good team
LSU 15 carries 50 yards Good team
GaTech 13 carries 94 yards Good team
Vandy 27 carries 107 yards Good team
Tenn 15 carries 46 yards Bad team
Middle Tenn 27 carries 126 yards Bad Team
Kentucky 15 carries 48 yards Bad team
Bama 11 carries 26 yards Good Team
Ark 23 carries 179 yards Bad team
Ole Miss 8 carries 17 yards Bad team

I'm not shitting on Dixon, but Hill is a much better back than you think he is.

Ok ... I'll buy all that. Good research. FWIW ... I didn't think Dixon was that great either and was surprised he made the league (although not for long) but I guess Hill has disappointed me more recently maybe. May Hill can step it up this year. I think some potential is there for Hill if he focuses and stays off Twitter. And I did look exclusively at Dixon's senior year while Hill is still a Jr.

Norwood ... now I think he was pretty darn good.

[SheltonChoked]

There's really no way to tell. I think the fairest question is do you think Moorhead would've done worse than 21-38 if he had taken over after Jackie, and do you think Croom would have done better than 14-12 if he'd taken over after Mullen? I think the answer is yes to both of those questions.

Croom would have done much worse than 14-12. He'd never have run Fitz, ( look at what he did with Omar Connor) and we would have scored 14 points per game. ( That's half of what Moorhead had) Vroom would have lost at least 2 more games in 2018 ( Probably ULL, A&M, and maybe KState), and in 2019 would have lost to ULL and Ark, probably Ole Miss.

Joe running a version of the spread with Omar, Jerious and Nick would have been better than what Croom did. Mostly due to system fit and letting Omar run the ball and no way Moorhead runs off Nick Turner. That beats Maine, and UAB... Not sure he finds another to get to a bowl... and he probably loses to UF and makes it about even...

It's depressing to look at any more "what it's" from the Croom era

Just thinking about Omar, Jerious, and Nick in a run spread offense is the most depressing "What if"....

[HoopsDawg]

Croom would have done much worse than 14-12. He'd never have run Fitz, ( look at what he did with Omar Connor) and we would have scored 14 points per game. ( That's half of what Moorhead had) Vroom would have lost at least 2 more games in 2018 ( Probably ULL, A&M, and maybe KState), and in 2019 would have lost to ULL and Ark, probably Ole Miss.

Joe running a version of the spread with Omar, Jerious and Nick would have been better than what Croom did. Mostly due to system fit and letting Omar run the ball and no way Moorhead runs off Nick Turner. That beats Maine, and UAB... Not sure he finds another to get to a bowl... and he probably loses to UF and makes it about even...

It's depressing to look at any more "what it's" from the Croom era

Just thinking about Omar, Jerious, and Nick in a run spread offense is the most depressing "What if"....

Croom ran the spread vs UF. Then he went back to the Croom Coast offense.

[tcdog70]

I'll take Croom every time. Moorhead did major damage in a short period of time...and it will take years to recover.

you Sir--have not a clue.

[Bdawg]

Some of you people are just plain STUPID!

If you think for a damn second that Dumbo Joe was a better Coach than Croom... You don't know crap or anything that inspired during his time.

Yes, the last game he coached was embarrassing... But the week before he beat a ranked Arkansas team.

He didn't have 1/1000 of the financial resources State has now or even preceding his hire like Dumbo Joe did.

Also... Croom beat Bama TWICE!! Once in Tuscaloosa and also beat Saban in Starkville. You read that.. CROOM BEAT BAMA TWICE!!

I don't care if Bama wasn't Bama then... Mullet NEVER BEAT BAMA (and should have at least twice) and Dumbo got his ass handed to him both times, even with the #1 ranked defense in the country.

So Croom did something that neither, Shira, Tyler, Bellard, Feller, Mullen or Dumbo Joe EVER DID!!

We are 3-17 versus Bama in the last 20 years.

Croom has 2 of those Victories...

You people need to find something else to discuss about State that actually means something... Like how Cohen is still the AD after screwing up such bad hires in both Baseball & football & paying Leach $5M.... Which is an absolute JOKE!! Why pay his so much... Only because he offered once and struck out.. then WHIFFED on 2 other coaches and then having to PAY such a stupid price when he had to go back sucking up to Leach! And then to run off the BEST COACH on Campus (Vic Schaefer) who has ACTUALLY PLAYED IN not 1 but 2 National Championships WHILE COACHING @ MISSISSIPPI STATE... and yet Cohen still has a job here?

Give me a break!

Y'all need to start asking the right questions about why all this is happening... Vic didn't want to leave State. He was pushed out...

But anyone that thinks Dumbo Joe did a better job while coach @ State then Croom did... Is just a typical ole State fan that is CLUELESS & will always deny how badly our Athletic Department lacks LEADERSHIP...

Enjoy sucking every stupid thing that Steve R. says. He is NOTHING put Cohen's PR FOS mouthpiece..

This is some of the dumbest sh*t I've read in a while. Dang man.

[Captain Falcon]

The ?Croom beat Bama twice? argument is so dumb. Bama in the mid 2000?s was equivalent to what Kentucky is now. In 2006-2007 specifically you?re talking about two Bama teams that went 6-6. You cannot remotely compare Bama back then to what they have been the last decade.

[fader2103]

Who cares? Our fans have some kind of complex with Alabama. That team sucked. They lost to UL Monroe the very next week at home.

It is not just our fan base. Every single team that plays Alabama wants to beat Alabama. Why? because it's ALABAMA. Just like when we beat Michigan in the Gator Bowl. Our fans loved it. Why because it was Michigan! If we played Notre Dame and we beat them then our fans would be excited Why? because it's Notre Dame. These teams are blue-bloods and when they do get beat it is fun for everyone.

[SheltonChoked]

Ok ... I'll buy all that. Good research. FWIW ... I didn't think Dixon was that great either and was surprised he made the league (although not for long) but I guess Hill has disappointed me more recently maybe. May Hill can step it up this year. I think some potential is there for Hill if he focuses and stays off Twitter. And I did look exclusively at Dixon's senior year while Hill is still a Jr.

Norwood ... now I think he was pretty darn good.
Dixon had a longer than average NFL career.
Norwood was wasted with a horrible offense.

Dixon looks much better his Sr year due to Mullen knowing how to get him the ball without everyone knowing he was getting the ball.

Time Machine, should have hired Urban from Bowling Green in 2002. Omar, Jerious, and Nick Turner running the spread in 2002-2006, then can take over and we'd be on a 18 year bowl streak....

[BrunswickDawg]

Dixon had a longer than average NFL career.
Norwood was wasted with a horrible offense.

Dixon looks much better his Sr year due to Mullen knowing how to get him the ball without everyone knowing he was getting the ball.

Time Machine, should have hired Urban from Bowling Green in 2002. Omar, Jerious, and Nick Turner running the spread in 2002-2006, then can take over and we'd be on a 18 year bowl streak....

LOL at the thought of LT doing something like that. It breaks to much from the "lets copy Bama, but in a cheap way" approach.

[SheltonChoked]

LOL at the thought of LT doing something like that. It breaks to much from the "lets copy Bama, but in a cheap way" approach.

LT "why pay a nickel when I can just rummage through Bama's garbage for free".

Yeah, amazing it took him 17ing over the university president to get fired....

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

It is not just our fan base. Every single team that plays Alabama wants to beat Alabama. Why? because it's ALABAMA. Just like when we beat Michigan in the Gator Bowl. Our fans loved it. Why because it was Michigan! If we played Notre Dame and we beat them then our fans would be excited Why? because it's Notre Dame. These teams are blue-bloods and when they do get beat it is fun for everyone.

Our fans don't give a crap what ND or Michigan do. Sure anyone would get excited about beating a big name team, but the MSU doesn't actively try to copy ND. We pretty much tried to copy Bama up to Mullen's hiring. Also, I can't tell you how many times I have heard MSU "fans" say that they also pull for Bama. Columbus and Meridian probably have more Bama fans than State.

[fader2103]

Our fans don't give a crap what ND or Michigan do. Sure anyone would get excited about beating a big name team, but the MSU doesn't actively try to copy ND. We pretty much tried to copy Bama up to Mullen's hiring. Also, I can't tell you how many times I have heard MSU "fans" say that they also pull for Bama. Columbus and Meridian probably have more Bama fans than State.

Other teams have tried to copy Alabama, not just MSU. It's just displayed more because we follow MSU. I have heard MSU fans pull for UM, Auburn, LSU, etc... Hell, I pull for Notre Dame outside of MSU.

[BB30]

Some of you people are just plain STUPID!

If you think for a damn second that Dumbo Joe was a better Coach than Croom... You don't know crap or anything that inspired during his time.

Yes, the last game he coached was embarrassing... But the week before he beat a ranked Arkansas team.

He didn't have 1/1000 of the financial resources State has now or even preceding his hire like Dumbo Joe did.

Also... Croom beat Bama TWICE!! Once in Tuscaloosa and also beat Saban in Starkville. You read that.. CROOM BEAT BAMA TWICE!!

I don't care if Bama wasn't Bama then... Mullet NEVER BEAT BAMA (and should have at least twice) and Dumbo got his ass handed to him both times, even with the #1 ranked defense in the country.

So Croom did something that neither, Shira, Tyler, Bellard, Feller, Mullen or Dumbo Joe EVER DID!!

We are 3-17 versus Bama in the last 20 years.

Croom has 2 of those Victories...

You people need to find something else to discuss about State that actually means something... Like how Cohen is still the AD after screwing up such bad hires in both Baseball & football & paying Leach $5M.... Which is an absolute JOKE!! Why pay his so much... Only because he offered once and struck out.. then WHIFFED on 2 other coaches and then having to PAY such a stupid price when he had to go back sucking up to Leach! And then to run off the BEST COACH on Campus (Vic Schaefer) who has ACTUALLY PLAYED IN not 1 but 2 National Championships WHILE COACHING @ MISSISSIPPI STATE... and yet Cohen still has a job here?

Give me a break!

Y'all need to start asking the right questions about why all this is happening... Vic didn't want to leave State. He was pushed out...

But anyone that thinks Dumbo Joe did a better job while coach @ State then Croom did... Is just a typical ole State fan that is CLUELESS & will always deny how badly our Athletic Department lacks LEADERSHIP...

Enjoy sucking every stupid thing that Steve R. says. He is NOTHING put Cohen's PR FOS mouthpiece..

Terrible take.

They were both horrible coaches. Croom would have been just as bad as Joe the last two years running that sh** he called an offense. He would have won 7-8 games in 18 and might have only won 2-3 games last year running "his" offense.