We're not going to play football this fall **!!!!**

[gtowndawg]

From this morning...

https://twitter.com/HailStateFB/status/1260931567184015360

[ShotgunDawg]

Nah, nah, nah, you're wrong*

I'm not saying another word because I don't want to get banned for making a political post

[Political Hack]

It's possible we don't play. It's possible we do play. Anyone saying they know confidently one way or the other plus lying to themselves and lying to you.

[Liverpooldawg]

It's possible we don't play. It's possible we do play. Anyone saying they know confidently one way or the other plus lying to themselves and lying to you.

This

[gtowndawg]

It's possible we don't play. It's possible we do play. Anyone saying they know confidently one way or the other plus lying to themselves and lying to you.

So Miss. State football is lying?

[StateDawg44]

So Miss. State football is lying?

I think it's more that there is no one who can actually make that call this far out with 100% certainty.

Sometimes there are higher powers that make that call. In cases like what we are dealing with now.

[Dawgology]

From this morning...

https://twitter.com/HailStateFB/status/1260931567184015360

Zillions of MSU football fans...doomed !***

[FISHDAWG]

I think it's more that there is no one who can actually make that call this far out with 100% certainty.

Sometimes there are higher powers that make that call. In cases like what we are dealing with now.

agreed ... but if planning isn't started now then nothing will happen for sure ... it's easier to cancel on short notice but impossible to start on short notice

[Johnson85]

It's possible we don't play. It's possible we do play. Anyone saying they know confidently one way or the other plus lying to themselves and lying to you.

Either result is possible, and granted we still don't have perfect information, but us not playing would require us finding out something new about the virus that makes it much more dangerous than it is now, or us just overreacting.

I think the smart bet as of now is that we will play, although there might be disruptions if the summer really slows down the spread and then we get a big spike when it gets cooler. Hopefully we will continue to work though it over the summer and whatever spike comes will be manageable.

[BeardoMSU]

agreed ... but if planning isn't started now then nothing will happen for sure ... it's easier to cancel on short notice but impossible to start on short notice

Definitely

[gtowndawg]

My point is simple. Why does the University say "we can't wait to see you (at David Wade) this fall, instead of "we hope to see you"?

I think they said exactly what they meant to say (because they know we will be playing football this fall).

[gtowndawg]

And oh by the way, Starkville Dr's say play football like normal. Including people at the games. We're going to play football guys.

https://www.si.com/college/mississippistate/news/would-local-doctors-attend-a-mississippi-state-football-game-MiOtOyyW4kehvWA51SDwnA

[Commercecomet24]

"Every man dies, not every man lives"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1G_Bzu52DY

[dawgday166]

"Every man dies, not every man lives"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1G_Bzu52DY

Damn good movie ... damn good scene.

[Liverpooldawg]

So Miss. State football is lying?

It's more like they are trying to sell you tickets. They don't know yet but they have to plan like we are. They won't make that call anyway.

[Commercecomet24]

Damn good movie ... damn good scene.

Yes sir!

[ScoobaDawg]

So Miss. State football is lying?

They are trying to sell a product in a world of uncertainty.... games be still be cancelled, rescheuled, moved, played without fans, or who knows what else. At worst they have to refund the tickets. better than not selling them to start with...

In other words, this is carrying on with giving people hope we can go back to normal.. because yes it's too far out to make a decision truthfully.

[ScoobaDawg]

My point is simple. Why does the University say "we can't wait to see you (at David Wade) this fall, instead of "we hope to see you"?

I think they said exactly what they meant to say (because they know we will be playing football this fall).


All in the message. Buyer psychology. Have to sound confident not passive to the consumer. but again they did say we can't wait to see you.. which implies...some day we will.. not exactly when this fall.

[TrapGame]

"Valar Morghulis."

[chef dixon]

I'm prepared for us to look like absolute dog shit without a true off-season. Trying to get our current roster to grasp the dynamic of completing a forward pass is not an easy task.

[TheLostDawg]

They are trying to sell a product in a world of uncertainty.... games be still be cancelled, rescheuled, moved, played without fans, or who knows what else. At worst they have to refund the tickets. better than not selling them to start with...

In other words, this is carrying on with giving people hope we can go back to normal.. because yes it's too far out to make a decision truthfully.

This

[TheLostDawg]

Delete

[TheLostDawg]

Easier to sell them now if we are able to play then sell during a season we (possibly) do terrible because we have a new staff that hasn't been able to work with the players and keep them in shape while the old staff didn't do us any favors in terms of coaching up talent especially with our wr who we really needed it.

[gtowndawg]

They are trying to sell a product in a world of uncertainty.... games be still be cancelled, rescheuled, moved, played without fans, or who knows what else. At worst they have to refund the tickets. better than not selling them to start with...

In other words, this is carrying on with giving people hope we can go back to normal.. because yes it's too far out to make a decision truthfully.

I disagree, that's called fraud. If you sell something not knowing if you can fulfill the order that's fraudulent. Strong words I know, but our University doesn't get a pass on that. If they are concerned fans can't attend they need to clearly state that in all of their sales collateral (digital marketing included). Clearly explain what happens if you purchase and you can not use it. I'm on the board of directors for a large summer camp (and we are still in limbo as of this week) and that's exactly what we have to do according to our legal counsel.

edited to say: I think they are absolutely confident games will be played and fans will be there and that's why they are pushing ticket sales and telling people to get excited about football at Davis Wade. Time will tell now.

[coachnorm]

I am confused and maybe fellow Elitedoggers might be able to clear up muddy waters. The NFL is discussing having digital video work to make a stadium crowd appear in an empty stadium during a possible televised game. I have a problem processing how that preparation by the NFL might relate to college football. I wonder if there is a difference between thousands of people touching something as simple as a hand rail at an NFL stadium compared to a college stadium. Also, older people are more at risk compared to the young. Who actually pays the big bucks in the scheme of things? Also I get confused with students on campus in a limited capacity, just to do distance learning on "Zoom"? If this is a method to say the school is open, is the organization truthful?

[Commercecomet24]

"Valar Morghulis."

Awesome!

[BhamDawg]

I disagree, that's called fraud. If you sell something not knowing if you can fulfill the order that's fraudulent. Strong words I know, but our University doesn't get a pass on that. If they are concerned fans can't attend they need to clearly state that in all of their sales collateral (digital marketing included). Clearly explain what happens if you purchase and you can not use it. I'm on the board of directors for a large summer camp (and we are still in limbo as of this week) and that's exactly what we have to do according to our legal counsel.

edited to say: I think they are absolutely confident games will be played and fans will be there and that's why they are pushing ticket sales and telling people to get excited about football at Davis Wade. Time will tell now.

Fraud is purposefully deceiving people for financial gain. If there is no season, everybody gets their money back. This is not fraud.

You are an idiot. Post less.

[Turfdawg67]

Fraud is purposefully deceiving people for financial gain. If there is no season, everybody gets their money back. This is not fraud.

You are an idiot. Post less.

https://i.postimg.cc/43YSmVGT/7460-D53-D-20-A6-42-CA-881-F-D5-F03-EB8-BD9-E.jpg

[FISHDAWG]

https://i.postimg.cc/43YSmVGT/7460-D53-D-20-A6-42-CA-881-F-D5-F03-EB8-BD9-E.jpg

we just can't have good positive post anymore

[TheLostDawg]

I disagree, that's called fraud. If you sell something not knowing if you can fulfill the order that's fraudulent. Strong words I know, but our University doesn't get a pass on that. If they are concerned fans can't attend they need to clearly state that in all of their sales collateral (digital marketing included). Clearly explain what happens if you purchase and you can not use it. I'm on the board of directors for a large summer camp (and we are still in limbo as of this week) and that's exactly what we have to do according to our legal counsel.

edited to say: I think they are absolutely confident games will be played and fans will be there and that's why they are pushing ticket sales and telling people to get excited about football at Davis Wade. Time will tell now.

I respectfully disagree. We all know what we're doing renewing season tickets and if we aren't able to attend, I believe they would do exactly as they have with the baseball season ticket holders (a precedent has been established). However if they took our money and didn't give it back if we don't play, that's another story.

[MaroonFlounder]

I'm prepared for us to look like absolute dog shit without a true off-season. Trying to get our current roster to grasp the dynamic of completing a forward pass is not an easy task.

I'll say this for certain. There will be no football in the Fall unless or until there is about 6 weeks of supervised conditioning, practice and scrimmage. 3 weeks of workouts, 3 weeks of practice/scrimmages.

Looking at timelines and infection rates, at the very least, the season will not start on time, if it starts at all.

[Commercecomet24]

we just can't have good positive post anymore

Nope and it's a shame.

[RiverCityDawg]

I'll say this for certain. There will be no football in the Fall unless or until there is about 6 weeks of supervised conditioning, practice and scrimmage. 3 weeks of workouts, 3 weeks of practice/scrimmages.

Looking at timelines and infection rates, at the very least, the season will not start on time, if it starts at all.

Rumor is the SEC presidents and ADs are voting on May 22nd to see if they will allow players back on campus June 1st. That would be a big step to starting on time.

I don't think "if" it will start is a realistic question, it's happening in the SEC at the rate things are going. But "when" is fair as is "what will the season look like".

[Maroonthirteen]

I am confused and maybe fellow Elitedoggers might be able to clear up muddy waters. The NFL is discussing having digital video work to make a stadium crowd appear in an empty stadium during a possible televised game. I have a problem processing how that preparation by the NFL might relate to college football. I wonder if there is a difference between thousands of people touching something as simple as a hand rail at an NFL stadium compared to a college stadium. Also, older people are more at risk compared to the young. Who actually pays the big bucks in the scheme of things? Also I get confused with students on campus in a limited capacity, just to do distance learning on "Zoom"? If this is a method to say the school is open, is the organization truthful?

You are a college coach. Tell us..... can you see college football being played if the nfl is not playing or in an empty stadium?

My opinion is that college football will not happen unless MLB goes good this summer and the NFL makes a decision to play. Also schools must the decision to have students on campus. All that has to happen first.

[Political Hack]

Either result is possible, and granted we still don't have perfect information, but us not playing would require us finding out something new about the virus that makes it much more dangerous than it is now, or us just overreacting.

I think the smart bet as of now is that we will play, although there might be disruptions if the summer really slows down the spread and then we get a big spike when it gets cooler. Hopefully we will continue to work though it over the summer and whatever spike comes will be manageable.

Depends on the strain of the hospital systems. If we see 80% of hospital beds or ICU beds filled in a state,
I promise you they won't be allowing football games. Death rate is irrelevant in that calculation. Also, nobody knows the long term impacts yet. We're starting to see some of it pop up in children even. If otherwise healthy children are susceptible to auto-immune issues and are actually having some level (% wise) of post-infection reaction, it'll start a political wildfire that won't be out out by pundits arguing about low death rates. All of those variables are moving targets right now. Depending on how it plays out we may or may not have football. Praying we get to see the season, even if it a crazy forfeit filled mess. Also hope I get to see my kids play ball. But that doesn't mean I think it'll happen. Most people right now are arguing for what they want to happen rather than just letting the situation dictate how we should act. It's defiant and irresponsible, but it's also human nature.

[gtowndawg]

we just can't have good positive post anymore

Ha ha, I was in politics for 6 years. Post like that don't phase me, I literally laugh at them.

[gtowndawg]

I respectfully disagree. We all know what we're doing renewing season tickets and if we aren't able to attend, I believe they would do exactly as they have with the baseball season ticket holders (a precedent has been established). However if they took our money and didn't give it back if we don't play, that's another story.

A respectful and thought out response. Shows you have some sense, thanks.

[Todd4State]

Depends on the strain of the hospital systems. If we see 80% of hospital beds or ICU beds filled in a state,
I promise you they won't be allowing football games. Death rate is irrelevant in that calculation. Also, nobody knows the long term impacts yet. We're starting to see some of it pop up in children even. If otherwise healthy children are susceptible to auto-immune issues and are actually having some level (% wise) of post-infection reaction, it'll start a political wildfire that won't be out out by pundits arguing about low death rates. All of those variables are moving targets right now. Depending on how it plays out we may or may not have football. Praying we get to see the season, even if it a crazy forfeit filled mess. Also hope I get to see my kids play ball. But that doesn't mean I think it'll happen. Most people right now are arguing for what they want to happen rather than just letting the situation dictate how we should act. It's defiant and irresponsible, but it's also human nature.

I can't see opening up straining the hospital systems. People expecting the future to be worse simply aren't being logical or don't understand how viruses typically work.

[shoeless joe]

"Every man dies, not every man lives"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1G_Bzu52DY

?It?s not dyin I?m talkin about, Woodrow...IT?S LIVIN!?

[gtowndawg]

?It?s not dyin I?m talkin about, Woodrow...IT?S LIVIN!?

https://media.giphy.com/media/EftFzKM1deUIU/giphy.gif

[Commercecomet24]

?It?s not dyin I?m talkin about, Woodrow...IT?S LIVIN!?

Love Lonesome Dove!

[Coach34]

Football is happening. High Schools begin summer workouts in June

Georgia and Fla's corona numbers are dropping since they opened up over a week ago.
Bama's President says football is happening. So did WV's Governor
Alabama hasnt had anyone under the age of 50 die from the Plague
This thing attacks the old or people that have health problems. Its time open everything up and lets roll. The carnage from people being out of work will hurt us way more than the virus if we dont get back to normal lives. Hell, the virus is bringing the 2 martini lunch and mimosas at breakfast back to everyday life. Enough

[Commercecomet24]

Football is happening. High Schools begin summer workouts in June

Georgia and Fla's corona numbers are dropping since they opened up over a week ago.
Bama's President says football is happening. So did WV's Governor
Alabama hasnt had anyone under the age of 50 die from the Plague
This thing attacks the old or people that have health problems. Its time open everything up and lets roll. The carnage from people being out of work will hurt us way more than the virus if we dont get back to normal lives. Hell, the virus is bringing the 2 martini lunch and mimosas at breakfast back to everyday life. Enough

Yes yes yes!

[R2Dawg]

I disagree, that's called fraud. If you sell something not knowing if you can fulfill the order that's fraudulent. Strong words I know, but our University doesn't get a pass on that. If they are concerned fans can't attend they need to clearly state that in all of their sales collateral (digital marketing included). Clearly explain what happens if you purchase and you can not use it. I'm on the board of directors for a large summer camp (and we are still in limbo as of this week) and that's exactly what we have to do according to our legal counsel.

edited to say: I think they are absolutely confident games will be played and fans will be there and that's why they are pushing ticket sales and telling people to get excited about football at Davis Wade. Time will tell now.

It is not fraud. Common man.

They are planning on playing. If we don't they will give everyone a free refund. I got refunds on my daughter there this spring that to be honest they didn't even have to do but they did the right thing and then some.

[Political Hack]

I can't see opening up straining the hospital systems. People expecting the future to be worse simply aren't being logical or don't understand how viruses typically work.

This isn't just a virus. It's not the flu. It's a pandemic. Historically, you'll find that the 2nd wave is worse than the first. There's not really a question of whether there will be another wave, it's a question of how bad it will be and when it will happen. And it is absolutely possible that it will overwhelm the healthcare system in various regions of the country. I can also tell you that while Georgia is in decline, the southeast has seen a sustained increase in cases the last 4 days in a row with the most significant jump coming yesterday. I completely expect to see stories in the future about PPE shortages, young people dying that didn't even know they had health issues, and ICU bed space limitations. That's a foregone conclusion to "opening up."

[Todd4State]

This isn't just a virus. It's not the flu. It's a pandemic. Historically, you'll find that the 2nd wave is worse than the first. There's not really a question of whether there will be another wave, it's a question of how bad it will be and when it will happen. And it is absolutely possible that it will overwhelm the healthcare system in various regions of the country. I can also tell you that while Georgia is in decline, the southeast has seen a sustained increase in cases the last 4 days in a row with the most significant jump coming yesterday. I completely expect to see stories in the future about PPE shortages, young people dying that didn't even know they had health issues, and ICU bed space limitations. That's a foregone conclusion to "opening up."

It's also not the Spanish Flu either. "It's not the flu" doesn't mean that it's the worst thing in the universe and has no cure and will not get better either. Historically they didn't have the medical advances that we do now in 1918 to make things like vaccines. Of course there will be another wave as we open up- but when that happens more people will have antibodies built up and we will be more prepared from what we have learned from the first wave. I fully expect the media to freak out though. It's what they do. Nevermind that despite crying about how everyone is going to die and that this is the end of the world that it simply hasn't been as bad as everyone feared. In the meantime I'm going to enjoy my day off because the hospital census is too low for me to work.

[Johnson85]

This isn't just a virus. It's not the flu. It's a pandemic. Historically, you'll find that the 2nd wave is worse than the first. There's not really a question of whether there will be another wave, it's a question of how bad it will be and when it will happen. And it is absolutely possible that it will overwhelm the healthcare system in various regions of the country. I can also tell you that while Georgia is in decline, the southeast has seen a sustained increase in cases the last 4 days in a row with the most significant jump coming yesterday. I completely expect to see stories in the future about PPE shortages, young people dying that didn't even know they had health issues, and ICU bed space limitations. That's a foregone conclusion to "opening up."

I'm not sure how much of that is a foregone conclusion (we will see cases come back, we will see more deaths, there will be people of all ages that find out they have underlying conditions they're unaware of, but we won't necessarily see PPE shortages or the healthcare system overrun), but to the extent it's a foregone conclusion, there's no sense in delaying it. It's going to be bad and tragic but manageable and less bad and tragic than just sticking our heads in the sand and hoping we find a treatment or vaccine before everything falls apart.

[Dawgfan77]

Second wave? Who knows. We now have three states Washington, FL, and CA showing signs that the virus was in those states as early as November/December.
IMO we have had this for a lot longer than most think

[TrapGame]

Google the Swine Flu epidemic of 1969. Way worse than this. Nobody quarantined, no businesses shut down and they still held Woodstock that summer.

[NWADAWG]

[QUOTE=Historically, you'll find that the 2nd wave is worse than the first. There's not really a question of whether there will be another wave, it's a question of how bad it will be and when it will happen. [/QUOTE]

I know a number of people that had strange illnesses back in Dec - Jan. I've been sick about twice in the last 20 years. In Jan. I had a nasty coughing chest something the doctor called a lung infection. Took me about a month to get over. In hindsight, I probably had the CV but no one was testing for or diagnosing it then.

All that to say, I'm beginning to think that this last 2 months just might be the 2nd wave. Maybe we missed the first wave calling it everything but CV.

Note: For the entire month that I was coughing up a lung, I did it under the impression that is was not infectious. So I went to work and lived life every day. No one at my office or my home has gotten sick.

[Johnson85]

I know a number of people that had strange illnesses back in Dec - Jan. I've been sick about twice in the last 20 years. In Jan. I had a nasty coughing chest something the doctor called a lung infection. Took me about a month to get over. In hindsight, I probably had the CV but no one was testing for or diagnosing it then.

All that to say, I'm beginning to think that this last 2 months just might be the 2nd wave. Maybe we missed the first wave calling it everything but CV.

Note: For the entire month that I was coughing up a lung, I did it under the impression that is was not infectious. So I went to work and lived life every day. No one at my office or my home has gotten sick.

You most likely did not have Wuhan unless there is a specific reason to think you were exposed. Even testing people now that are showing symptoms, we are having something like a 10-13% positive rate I think? Not saying you didn't; just that the odds are very much against it.

[Jack Lambert]

This isn't just a virus. It's not the flu. It's a pandemic. Historically, you'll find that the 2nd wave is worse than the first. There's not really a question of whether there will be another wave, it's a question of how bad it will be and when it will happen. And it is absolutely possible that it will overwhelm the healthcare system in various regions of the country. I can also tell you that while Georgia is in decline, the southeast has seen a sustained increase in cases the last 4 days in a row with the most significant jump coming yesterday. I completely expect to see stories in the future about PPE shortages, young people dying that didn't even know they had health issues, and ICU bed space limitations. That's a foregone conclusion to "opening up."

There was no second wave with SARS or H1N1 and the Spanish Flu was over a 100 years ago. Things have changed since 1918. Back then the flu travel faster than the news about the flu. There will be hot spots but the word will get out and it wll be stopped.

[NWADAWG]

You most likely did not have Wuhan unless there is a specific reason to think you were exposed.

I do like to frequent the chinese buffets so there's that. **

[Liverpooldawg]

It's also not the Spanish Flu either. "It's not the flu" doesn't mean that it's the worst thing in the universe and has no cure and will not get better either. Historically they didn't have the medical advances that we do now in 1918 to make things like vaccines. Of course there will be another wave as we open up- but when that happens more people will have antibodies built up and we will be more prepared from what we have learned from the first wave. I fully expect the media to freak out though. It's what they do. Nevermind that despite crying about how everyone is going to die and that this is the end of the world that it simply hasn't been as bad as everyone feared. In the meantime I'm going to enjoy my day off because the hospital census is too low for me to work.

Actually there is a lot of speculation that it IS about like the Spanish flu with modern nutrition, sanitation, and supportive medical care. Most of the people who are getting oxygen support for example, a MUCH larger number than those on the vent, would have died in 1919.

[Liverpooldawg]

There was no second wave with SARS or H1N1 and the Spanish Flu was over a 100 years ago. Things have changed since 1918. Back then the flu travel faster than the news about the flu. There will be hot spots but the word will get out and it wll be stopped.

We had a vaccine for H1N1. With SARS you got real sick, real quick, so there was little to no pre-symptomatic transmission. That is a MUCH easier disease to isolate and eliminate once you know it's there and what to look for. See my above for the difference in this and Spanish Flu.

[Liverpooldawg]

Google the Swine Flu epidemic of 1969. Way worse than this. Nobody quarantined, no businesses shut down and they still held Woodstock that summer.

That Woodstock meme that is going around is either ignorantly or intentionally VERY misleading. The peak of that flu pandemic in the US was Dec 68-Jan 69. It went away by March of 69. It returned for a second wave in Nov 69. Woodstock was in Aug 69. There was no flu epidemic in the US at the time of Woodstock.

[Liverpooldawg]

I know a number of people that had strange illnesses back in Dec - Jan. I've been sick about twice in the last 20 years. In Jan. I had a nasty coughing chest something the doctor called a lung infection. Took me about a month to get over. In hindsight, I probably had the CV but no one was testing for or diagnosing it then.

All that to say, I'm beginning to think that this last 2 months just might be the 2nd wave. Maybe we missed the first wave calling it everything but CV.

Note: For the entire month that I was coughing up a lung, I did it under the impression that is was not infectious. So I went to work and lived life every day. No one at my office or my home has gotten sick.

The hospital stats that matter say there was no widespread Covid in most places in the US till March.

[TrapGame]

That Woodstock meme that is going around is either ignorantly or intentionally VERY misleading. The peak of that flu pandemic in the US was Dec 68-Jan 69. It went away by March of 69. It returned for a second wave in Nov 69. Woodstock was in Aug 69. There was no flu epidemic in the US at the time of Woodstock.

Nice dodge.

Nothing was shut down, more deaths, more people exposed. All through '69 and it "magically" skipped Woodstock. Must have been all the "medicinal" marijuana use there.

[HancockCountyDog]

Google the Swine Flu epidemic of 1969. Way worse than this. Nobody quarantined, no businesses shut down and they still held Woodstock that summer.

I'm not sure how you can say it was worse than this. According to the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimated that in total, the virus killed one million people worldwide,[14] from its beginning in July 1968 until the outbreak faded during the winter of 1969-70.[15] The CDC estimated that about 100,000 people died in the U.S; The disease began in July of 1968 and lasted for almost 18 months. In 18 months, it killed 100K in the US.

We are roughly two months and it has killed more than 85,000 in two months.

If you don't think this is a big deal, or everyone is going to be fine, that is certainly your right, but I don't see you can compare roughly 100K deaths in 18 months versus 85000 deaths in two months as being worse than this.

[HancockCountyDog]

What I still haven't figured out is how football will work unless everyone is tested and then everyone is quarantined. The time lapse of how this spreads and how healthy people are just as contagious as sick people is simply beyond me.

I hope they figure it out because I'm tired of playing NCAA football 2014 already.

[TrapGame]

I'm not sure how you can say it was worse than this. According to the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimated that in total, the virus killed one million people worldwide,[14] from its beginning in July 1968 until the outbreak faded during the winter of 1969-70.[15] The CDC estimated that about 100,000 people died in the U.S; The disease began in July of 1968 and lasted for almost 18 months. In 18 months, it killed 100K in the US.

We are roughly two months and it has killed more than 85,000 in two months.

If you don't think this is a big deal, or everyone is going to be fine, that is certainly your right, but I don't see you can compare roughly 100K deaths in 18 months versus 85000 deaths in two months as being worse than this.

How many of the 85,000 actually died of COVID 19?

Wake up people.

[NWADAWG]

The hospital stats that matter say there was no widespread Covid in most places in the US till March.

Are you referring to the hospital stats that didn't think there was Wuhan flu in the US and didn't test anyone for it until March? It's hard to make a claim about stats based on data that wasn't taken. How many sicknesses and deaths got labeled pneumonia, lung infection, flu, etc. before this all broke lose and a test was created. I'm not claiming to know for a fact that this is the 2nd wave only saying that I'm beginning to think it could be. It would explain why so many people were showing to have the antibodies so early in this process. If the 2nd wave is typically much worse than the first, maybe we're in it.

[Turfdawg67]

Google the Swine Flu epidemic of 1969. Way worse than this. Nobody quarantined, no businesses shut down and they still held Woodstock that summer.


How many of the 85,000 actually died of COVID 19?

Wake up people.

Gee, I Googled the Swine Flu and then Googled Covid-19 deaths. I'm supposed to believe one but not the other? Or just believe the one that fits my argument. Ah, got it! I'm woke now.

[Political Hack]

I'm not sure how much of that is a foregone conclusion (we will see cases come back, we will see more deaths, there will be people of all ages that find out they have underlying conditions they're unaware of, but we won't necessarily see PPE shortages or the healthcare system overrun), but to the extent it's a foregone conclusion, there's no sense in delaying it. It's going to be bad and tragic but manageable and less bad and tragic than just sticking our heads in the sand and hoping we find a treatment or vaccine before everything falls apart.

1) Hospitals and states are relying on FEMA and HHS/CDC to source PPE already. Their regular suppliers are out. If another wave hits anytime soon, we will again experience PPE shortages.

2) Going back to Todd's point about the advancement of medicine in the last 100 years: the longer we can avoid a 2nd wave the less tragic it will be. We will know how to treat it better, we will have more resources available to treat it, we will have time to study vaccines (likely spring before it's even feasible), we will learn more about the vulnerable populations, we will learn more the spread and infectious rate, we will have testing and tracing widespread and available to identify clusters and growth more rapidly, etc... The longer we implement social distancing orders the better off we will be from a health standpoint. You can't argue otherwise logically.

3) We can't let people starve to death and go bankrupt because 1% of the population may die. I realize that and agree. However it has to be phased. This battle between the "two sides" to "open everything" or "shut down everything" may be the dumbest thing I've ever seen or heard of in the history of this country. This is not a black or white issue. It's a huge gray area that has to be managed day to day. We need better data to help manage social distancing while also trying to balance the nation's economic health. Testing and tracing would give local government officials the confidence they need to press the gas and brakes accordingly. Once that happens, it makes sense to take calculated risks. Right now, (and I've used this before), we walked into the middle of a pitchblack bathroom started peeing and hope we hit the toilet. It's absurd how poorly this has been managed.

[Political Hack]

How many of the 85,000 actually died of COVID 19?

Wake up people.

I know 3 people that died of COVId-19 and others that it almost killed, including a 41 year old federal law enforcement official that is in great shape (just got back from a stint at FLETC in Ga).

[Liverpooldawg]

Nice dodge.

Nothing was shut down, more deaths, more people exposed. All through '69 and it "magically" skipped Woodstock. Must have been all the "medicinal" marijuana use there.

You used Woodstock which is ABSOLUTELY misleading at BEST. Now you are trying to defend it. It followed the seasonal flu pattern. It was gone by the end of March and then it came back in November, just like almost every other flu. There was nothing magic about it. I can excuse you for using it the first time. THIS post shows that you don't care about facts that don't suite your argument.

[Liverpooldawg]

I'm not sure how you can say it was worse than this. According to the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimated that in total, the virus killed one million people worldwide,[14] from its beginning in July 1968 until the outbreak faded during the winter of 1969-70.[15] The CDC estimated that about 100,000 people died in the U.S; The disease began in July of 1968 and lasted for almost 18 months. In 18 months, it killed 100K in the US.

We are roughly two months and it has killed more than 85,000 in two months.

If you don't think this is a big deal, or everyone is going to be fine, that is certainly your right, but I don't see you can compare roughly 100K deaths in 18 months versus 85000 deaths in two months as being worse than this.

That he tried to defend using Woodstock in his argument tells you all you need to know. He won't buy that either.

[Liverpooldawg]

Are you referring to the hospital stats that didn't think there was Wuhan flu in the US and didn't test anyone for it until March? It's hard to make a claim about stats based on data that wasn't taken. How many sicknesses and deaths got labeled pneumonia, lung infection, flu, etc. before this all broke lose and a test was created. I'm not claiming to know for a fact that this is the 2nd wave only saying that I'm beginning to think it could be. It would explain why so many people were showing to have the antibodies so early in this process. If the 2nd wave is typically much worse than the first, maybe we're in it.

No, I'm referring to the ICU stats as in numbers in the ICU. Those weren't out of the ordinary for December and January.

[Liverpooldawg]

1) Hospitals and states are relying on FEMA and HHS/CDC to source PPE already. Their regular suppliers are out. If another wave hits anytime soon, we will again experience PPE shortages.

2) Going back to Todd's point about the advancement of medicine in the last 100 years: the longer we can avoid a 2nd wave the less tragic it will be. We will know how to treat it better, we will have more resources available to treat it, we will have time to study vaccines (likely spring before it's even feasible), we will learn more about the vulnerable populations, we will learn more the spread and infectious rate, we will have testing and tracing widespread and available to identify clusters and growth more rapidly, etc... The longer we implement social distancing orders the better off we will be from a health standpoint. You can't argue otherwise logically.

3) We can't let people starve to death and go bankrupt because 1% of the population may die. I realize that and agree. However it has to be phased. This battle between the "two sides" to "open everything" or "shut down everything" may be the dumbest thing I've ever seen or heard of in the history of this country. This is not a black or white issue. It's a huge gray area that has to be managed day to day. We need better data to help manage social distancing while also trying to balance the nation's economic health. Testing and tracing would give local government officials the confidence they need to press the gas and brakes accordingly. Once that happens, it makes sense to take calculated risks. Right now, (and I've used this before), we walked into the middle of a pitchblack bathroom started peeing and hope we hit the toilet. It's absurd how poorly this has been managed.

This is an outstanding post.

[Liverpooldawg]

How many of the 85,000 actually died of COVID 19?

Wake up people.

This isn't some conspiracy man. I know people who have died, a number of them. Our obits here have been WAY above normal. This is in backwoods Mississippi.

[Jack Lambert]

This isn't some conspiracy man. I know people who have died, a number of them. Our obits here have been WAY above normal. This is in backwoods Mississippi.

Deleted.

[Liverpooldawg]

Mississippi's ICU numbers went up by 31 today to 172. That's a 22% jump from yesterday. That is the most since April 21st at least. The vent numbers went up 12%.

[Homedawg]

Mississippi's ICU numbers went up by 31 today to 172. That's a 22% jump from yesterday. That is the most since April 21st at least. The vent numbers went up 12%.

No they didn't. ICU is at 151. You are reading the chart wrong.

[R2Dawg]

This isn't some conspiracy man. I know people who have died, a number of them. Our obits here have been WAY above normal. This is in backwoods Mississippi.

1 out of 1 persons will die. Yes Covid is a real disease, how bad is yet to be seen or realized but fact is you can't shut down a service or industrial economy very long or people die from other stuff way more than Covid. Most people agree just need to be smart, good hygene, etc. The fear tactics shut down forever until Covid doesn't kill 1 person crowd is total BS.

As Andy Dufrain said, get busy living or get busy dying. Most are just ready to live. I am still going to be careful though. 95% of people I know with a sane mind think this way. 90% of idiots think we must shut down for 1-2 years when we have 100% conquered Covid.

[Liverpooldawg]

No they didn't. ICU is at 151. You are reading the chart wrong.

You read it wrong. Look at the colors of the numbers and the lines. The tan ICU number and line is 172. The green suspected infection line and number is 151.The green number is also always above the line and the tan one below the line.

[Liverpooldawg]

1 out of 1 persons will die. Yes Covid is a real disease, how bad is yet to be seen or realized but fact is you can't shut down a service or industrial economy very long or people die from other stuff way more than Covid. Most people agree just need to be smart, good hygene, etc. The fear tactics shut down forever until Covid doesn't kill 1 person crowd is total BS.

As Andy Dufrain said, get busy living or get busy dying. Most are just ready to live. I am still going to be careful though. 95% of people I know with a sane mind think this way. 90% of idiots think we must shut down for 1-2 years when we have 100% conquered Covid.

Nobody is saying stay shut down forever. We need to open up, but it needs to be done carefully. I think government is trying to do that. The people I see around my area are NOT doing that. There are people on here who obviously aren't.

[Homedawg]

You read it wrong. Look at the colors of the numbers and the lines. The tan ICU number and line is 172. The green suspected infection line and number is 151.The green number is also always above the line and the tan one below the line.

No, you are reading it wrong. Look at the lines and the up and down. Forget the color of the number. 172 is hospitalized that they suspect have it.

[Johnson85]

1) Hospitals and states are relying on FEMA and HHS/CDC to source PPE already. Their regular suppliers are out. If another wave hits anytime soon, we will again experience PPE shortages.


Hospitals are burning through PPE now with few COVID patients and without us moving toward any goal.

[Todd4State]

1) Hospitals and states are relying on FEMA and HHS/CDC to source PPE already. Their regular suppliers are out. If another wave hits anytime soon, we will again experience PPE shortages.

2) Going back to Todd's point about the advancement of medicine in the last 100 years: the longer we can avoid a 2nd wave the less tragic it will be. We will know how to treat it better, we will have more resources available to treat it, we will have time to study vaccines (likely spring before it's even feasible), we will learn more about the vulnerable populations, we will learn more the spread and infectious rate, we will have testing and tracing widespread and available to identify clusters and growth more rapidly, etc... The longer we implement social distancing orders the better off we will be from a health standpoint. You can't argue otherwise logically.

3) We can't let people starve to death and go bankrupt because 1% of the population may die. I realize that and agree. However it has to be phased. This battle between the "two sides" to "open everything" or "shut down everything" may be the dumbest thing I've ever seen or heard of in the history of this country. This is not a black or white issue. It's a huge gray area that has to be managed day to day. We need better data to help manage social distancing while also trying to balance the nation's economic health. Testing and tracing would give local government officials the confidence they need to press the gas and brakes accordingly. Once that happens, it makes sense to take calculated risks. Right now, (and I've used this before), we walked into the middle of a pitchblack bathroom started peeing and hope we hit the toilet. It's absurd how poorly this has been managed.

Everyone that has common sense wants the re-opening to be phased. Even the President. But since we're talking about football I highly suspect that we will be in at worst phase two at that point since we're talking four months from now. High schools where I live are starting football practice/conditioning on June 8th.

The thing about social distancing, the economy, a "second wave"- which we don't know if it will even happen or not- the reality is we only can live in the present moment and make the best decision based on the circumstances at the present. If the economy and the country is about to fall apart and overall as a country things are improving from a flattening the curve standpoint and they are where I live the logical thing to do is to re-open using the guidelines set forth by the government. IF there is a second wave we will have to deal with it at that time. Re-opening the country in phases doesn't mean that PPE will stop being produced.

I can tell you at the hospital where I work that our vent population is now back to where it normally is on average. I can also tell you that the majority of people are surviving this- and I'm talking about exclusively the ones that are coming to the hospital and are on a vent at some point during their stay.

[Liverpooldawg]

No, you are reading it wrong. Look at the lines and the up and down. Forget the color of the number. 172 is hospitalized that they suspect have it.

Look at how the lines connect man and the values before. You are reading it wrong. Good grief.

[Liverpooldawg]

delete

[Homedawg]

Look at how the lines connect man and the values before. You are reading it wrong. Good grief.whatever. Carry on.

[R2Dawg]

Nobody is saying stay shut down forever. We need to open up, but it needs to be done carefully. I think government is trying to do that. The people I see around my area are NOT doing that. There are people on here who obviously aren't.

Ok, but the fear mongering by the media and people scared to move need mental help. The constant attack on leadership about every decision has to stop. No one knows exactly what will happen and the perfect move. The constant daily attack and gloom and doom though is making things worse.

Another movie line from Saving Private Ryan. They are on Omaha Beach and getting killed. Solder asked Hanks, where do we go now. He says anywhere but here.

We gotta get moving and do best we can to mitigate; we'll deal with the next hurdle when it gets here.

Fauci and other Drs. only have a word about health stuff not anything else about needing to keeping everyone shut in. They don't doctor the economy patient or feed any of America. They are overstepping their bounds.

[Todd4State]

Ok, but the fear mongering by the media and people scared to move need mental help. The constant attack on leadership about every decision has to stop. No one knows exactly what will happen and the perfect move. The constant daily attack and gloom and doom though is making things worse.

Another movie line from Saving Private Ryan. They are on Omaha Beach and getting killed. Solder asked Hanks, where do we go now. He says anywhere but here.

We gotta get moving and do best we can to mitigate; we'll deal with the next hurdle when it gets here.

Fauci and other Drs. only have a word about health stuff not anything else about needing to keeping everyone shut in. They don't doctor the economy patient or feed any of America. They are overstepping their bounds.

Amen.

[Liverpooldawg]

Ok, but the fear mongering by the media and people scared to move need mental help. The constant attack on leadership about every decision has to stop. No one knows exactly what will happen and the perfect move. The constant daily attack and gloom and doom though is making things worse.

Another movie line from Saving Private Ryan. They are on Omaha Beach and getting killed. Solder asked Hanks, where do we go now. He says anywhere but here.

We gotta get moving and do best we can to mitigate; we'll deal with the next hurdle when it gets here.

Fauci and other Drs. only have a word about health stuff not anything else about needing to keeping everyone shut in. They don't doctor the economy patient or feed any of America. They are overstepping their bounds.

Oh but the open it up damn the torpedoes people are equally as stupid, and even more self cetered and selfish. There has to be a balance.

[dawgday166]

Oh but the open it up damn the torpedoes people are equally as stupid, and even more self cetered and selfish. There has to be a balance.

Worked for Farragut.

[Liverpooldawg]

Torpedoes weren't contagious. Disease killed more than bullets in the Civil War by the way, WAY more. No vaccines or treatments then either.

[dawgday166]

Those were tough folks back then. Every time someone died they didn't make a new law to try and keep it from ever happening again either.

[Liverpooldawg]

Those were tough folks back then. Every time someone died they didn't make a new law to try and keep it from ever happening again either.

You need to read up a bit. They absolutely did. It was the age of discovery in sanitation and health. Your ignorance is showing.

[dawgday166]

You need to read up a bit. They absolutely did. It was the age of discovery in sanitation and health. Your ignorance is showing.

I said every time. Nowadays it's pert near every time. Part of the reasons lawyers are getting rich.

[Liverpooldawg]

whatever. Carry on.

Look at it today. There is no confusion now.

[Extendedcab]

Torpedoes weren't contagious. Disease killed more than bullets in the Civil War by the way, WAY more. No vaccines or treatments then either.

Torpedos, if they missed their primary target can "re-home" and find another target which could be the original sender, hence the term: Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead. Regardless if you are not perfectly aligned to shoot the primary target, you may be at risk if it is a miss.

[dawgday166]

Torpedos, if they missed their primary target can "re-home" and find another target which could be the original sender, hence the term: Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead. Regardless if you are not perfectly aligned to shoot the primary target, you may be at risk if it is a miss.

Ehh .. we're talking stationary torpedoes during the Civil War. Sorta like land mines. And Union Admiral David Farragut issued that "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead" command during the Battle of Mobile in 1864.

ETA: To add something here. During the Civil War the South was I believe the 1st to produce an Ironclad warship, produced the 1st submarine to sink a warship, built an Ironclad out in the Wilderness near Yazoo City up the Yazoo River that lifted the 1st Siege of Vicksburg, and developed stationary torpedoes.

You wanna watch a good movie watch The Hunley. Those guys had big cahonas.

[Political Hack]

Everyone that has common sense wants the re-opening to be phased. Even the President. But since we're talking about football I highly suspect that we will be in at worst phase two at that point since we're talking four months from now. High schools where I live are starting football practice/conditioning on June 8th.

The thing about social distancing, the economy, a "second wave"- which we don't know if it will even happen or not- the reality is we only can live in the present moment and make the best decision based on the circumstances at the present. If the economy and the country is about to fall apart and overall as a country things are improving from a flattening the curve standpoint and they are where I live the logical thing to do is to re-open using the guidelines set forth by the government. IF there is a second wave we will have to deal with it at that time. Re-opening the country in phases doesn't mean that PPE will stop being produced.

I can tell you at the hospital where I work that our vent population is now back to where it normally is on average. I can also tell you that the majority of people are surviving this- and I'm talking about exclusively the ones that are coming to the hospital and are on a vent at some point during their stay.

A 2nd wave is beginning to form now in 8 of the 10 FEMA regions across the country. The spike could be from increased testing, but unfortunately the deaths look to be spiking too, which would indicate it's actually new growth and spread. Region 2 and 10 are flat lined (NY & WA areas). Every other region is spiking the last week. People are looking State to state without realizing national growth is surging in 8 or 10 regions.

Mississippi Drs are complaining about the precautions because they haven't seen it much yet. Just spoke with an ER doctor walking into work right now. He works New Orleans and in Miss. He said he's been explains to people in MS that this is a threat and they need to take precaution. Just a different mindset where you are because it hasn't been experienced first hand yet, at least not to the point where you're running out of rooms and capacity to serve those in need. Unfortunately, I think we're about to see a whole lot of that. A 2nd wave is absolutely coming. Might be in a week. Might be in the fall. But it is absolutely inevitable, unless you believe it'll just magically disappear?

[Todd4State]

A 2nd wave is beginning to form now in 8 of the 10 FEMA regions across the country. The spike could be from increased testing, but unfortunately the deaths look to be spiking too, which would indicate it's actually new growth and spread. Region 2 and 10 are flat lined (NY & WA areas). Every other region is spiking the last week. People are looking State to state without realizing national growth is surging in 8 or 10 regions.

Mississippi Drs are complaining about the precautions because they haven't seen it much yet. Just spoke with an ER doctor walking into work right now. He works New Orleans and in Miss. He said he's been explains to people in MS that this is a threat and they need to take precaution. Just a different mindset where you are because it hasn't been experienced first hand yet, at least not to the point where you're running out of rooms and capacity to serve those in need. Unfortunately, I think we're about to see a whole lot of that. A 2nd wave is absolutely coming. Might be in a week. Might be in the fall. But it is absolutely inevitable, unless you believe it'll just magically disappear?

IF there is a second wave I'd rather it be now concerning football season.

This isn't surprising to me as I fully expected cases to rise once things started to open up. Which was the entire point of flattening the curve in the first place. Until the media tried to move the goalposts anyway.

[Johnson85]

IF there is a second wave I'd rather it be now concerning football season.

This isn't surprising to me as I fully expected cases to rise once things started to open up. Which was the entire point of flattening the curve in the first place. Until the media tried to move the goalposts anyway.

I'd rather it be now just because it will probably spread more slowly with warmer, more humid weather and people being outside more. Might naturally keep the spread at a point that doesn't overwhelm our healthcare system and put us in better position for the winter when conditions are more favorable to its spread.

[confucius say]

Look at it today. There is no confusion now.

And the numbers are back down. Hospitalizations at lowest point in a month, icu back down to 141, and vents down 8% since yesterday. Hope it continues.

[Liverpooldawg]

And the numbers are back down. Hospitalizations at lowest point in a month, icu back down to 141, and vents down 8% since yesterday. Hope it continues.

Best numbers in a while for sure. We actually have gone a couple of days here with no new cases. That's the first time that's happened since March.

[BB30]

Oh but the open it up damn the torpedoes people are equally as stupid, and even more self cetered and selfish. There has to be a balance.

I guess we should hault people driving until the death total goes down because 1.25 million die each year in wrecks and that is selfish and self centered to want to continue driving while so many people are dying on our roads.**

Real talk though, it seems like most states are taking the correct precautions in opening up. There will without a doubt be a second wave and that is going to be part of it. But that second wave would come regardless of if we opened up now or in 3 months. Might as well get it over with.

[smootness]

whatever. Carry on.

What are you guys looking at?

[Political Hack]

IF there is a second wave I'd rather it be now concerning football season.

This isn't surprising to me as I fully expected cases to rise once things started to open up. Which was the entire point of flattening the curve in the first place. Until the media tried to move the goalposts anyway.

I agree with that too. I don't think the media really moved the goal post though. Some health experts were trying to for sure. I think the media was mostly citing the 14-day decline recommended by CDC before the easing of restrictions. "Follow the plan" seems like a logical stance until politics gets involved. Totally agree with you though that this is a wave and we're going to have to ride it, especially in the short term. Long term, we either get a vaccine or this is the new flu. Herd immunity only works for short periods of time typically. We don't know if it'll be 3-4-5-6 months of immunity or years worth of immunity. The "goal post" has to be bed space and ICU space, combined with PPE and ventilator availability. (E..g, Approaching 80%, lock down. Approaching 60%, <10 people gatherings. I don't know what the numbers should be, just an example). Problem is, we aren't putting together a national testing strategy and tracing strategy to help manage this. We're just winging it. That's pretty damn dumb considering we could be managing it with testing and tracing data.

[Political Hack]

I'd rather it be now just because it will probably spread more slowly with warmer, more humid weather and people being outside more. Might naturally keep the spread at a point that doesn't overwhelm our healthcare system and put us in better position for the winter when conditions are more favorable to its spread.


I think the humidity is really going to help. At least that's my hope for saving football. Bet it's damn near impossible to spread in a rain storm.

[Political Hack]

I guess we should hault people driving until the death total goes down because 1.25 million die each year in wrecks and that is selfish and self centered to want to continue driving while so many people are dying on our roads.**

Real talk though, it seems like most states are taking the correct precautions in opening up. There will without a doubt be a second wave and that is going to be part of it. But that second wave would come regardless of if we opened up now or in 3 months. Might as well get it over with.

I do understand that rationale, but the longer we have to gear up the easier that wave will be to manage. We need to make PPE, tests, etc... before that happens.

[gtowndawg]

Update: we're going to play football.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/05/18/the-pac-12-has-no-plans-to-get-left-behind-the-case-for-playing-football-in-the-fall/

[confucius say]

Best numbers in a while for sure. We actually have gone a couple of days here with no new cases. That's the first time that's happened since March.

Great news!