Redshirt question?

[dawgoneyall]

Is it because Mullen doesn't care?

[engie]

What do you mean?

The fact that he's burned so many redshirts in the middle of the year this year?

[dawgoneyall]

Does he care four years from now?

[Coach34]

We cant keep redshirting damn near everybody- only 85 schollys

[engie]

Huh?

[dawgoneyall]

Keep burning the redshirt of your best prospects? Doesn't make any rational sense.

Hey I get it. Your are a Mullen supporter (I was until the Ok State game and definitely anti after the Auburn game) but there is no rational explanation for his use of some of the redshirts.

[dawgoneyall]

DUH?

[Dawg61]

Keep burning the redshirt of your best prospects? Doesn't make any rational sense.

Hey I get it. Your are a Mullen supporter (I was until the Ok State game and definitely anti after the Auburn game) but there is no rational explanation for his use of some of the redshirts.

Seriously dude? We have so many football players right now because Mullen has been redshirting so many he can't even sign the full 25 or he'll have to cut players. Do the math. If we sign 25 a year and redshirt 12 you quickly get to 85 football players. You either have to cut players or reduce your redshirts. No way around it. The number 85 encourages turnover on a team.

[dawgoneyall]

Seriously?

[Todd4State]

I think it goes back to poor roster management. The reason we are burning redshirts is because we have little depth at certain spots and injuries are taking their toll in some areas- like guard. It actually goes back to not signing enough quality players at certain positions- I think o-line is the biggest offender.

[Todd4State]

Seriously dude? We have so many football players right now because Mullen has been redshirting so many he can't even sign the full 25 or he'll have to cut players. Do the math. If we sign 25 a year and redshirt 12 you quickly get to 85 football players. You either have to cut players or reduce your redshirts. No way around it. The number 85 encourages turnover on a team.

To me, the fact that we have only 9 seniors or whatever is poor roster management as well. We should have redshirted Bumphis, Chris Smith, Josh Boyd, Cameron Lawrence, Jonathan Banks, and we also whiffed on some JUCO o-linmen- Trapp, Holley, and Siddoway- who is a starter but is very average. But if you look back at the guys whose redshirts we actually burned four years ago- all of those guys would have made a big difference on our team this year. And I will concede Banks of the list, although I think there would have been a better than average chance that he would have returned.

I'm OK with not redshirting some players- but they better be guys like Shumpert or Chris Jones.

[Dawg61]

I think it's a guessing game for most of them. Chris Jones is obvious but almost every player won't be so obvious. Banks was skinny as **** as a freshman but Mullen was so depleted back there he had no choice. Ideally you only burn the obvious contributors but I think it's good to have 1 year out of every 4 where you have almost zero redshirts. This causes progressive turnover so it won't be so tough to get to 85 every year. In the NFL every team has difficulty cutting down to 53 and if you sign full classes every year you will have around 20 too many players without creating turnover somehow. You can't just expect for players to get dismissed or quit. You have to get the numbers right yourself or atleast try to. Or you can just be a dick and cut the bottom feeders every year.

[Homedawg]

I think it's a guessing game for most of them. Chris Jones is obvious but almost every player won't be so obvious. Banks was skinny as **** as a freshman but Mullen was so depleted back there he had no choice. Ideally you only burn the obvious contributors but I think it's good to have 1 year out of every 4 where you have almost zero redshirts. This causes progressive turnover so it won't be so tough to get to 85 every year. In the NFL every team has difficulty cutting down to 53 and if you sign full classes every year you will have around 20 too many players without creating turnover somehow. You can't just expect for players to get dismissed or quit. You have to get the numbers right yourself or atleast try to. Or you can just be a dick and cut the bottom feeders every year.

Why can't u be a dick and cut bottom feeders every year? Every program in America does it

[HancockCountyDog]

What do you mean?

The fact that he's burned so many redshirts in the middle of the year this year?

Nutt did this to the bears in 2011 and I loved it. It was a parting "**** You" to them. I think he burned two redshirts in the egg bowl.

If we burned Clayborn's redshirt year for a few snaps against Kentucky - Im going to be pissed. I didn't see much of Clayborn against SC, I could be wrong though, after the end of the half debacle, i started to drink heavily.

[HancockCountyDog]

We cant keep redshirting damn near everybody- only 85 schollys

Wait, this goes totally against Mullen's philosophy of our program being a development program, which it needs to be. Burning redshirts for a handful of snaps is just ludicrous.

[engie]

Wait, this goes totally against Mullen's philosophy of our program being a development program, which it needs to be. Burning redshirts for a handful of snaps is just ludicrous.

Exactly.

I don't see how someone can defend redshirting practically everyone -- and then turn around and defend burning over half of our redshirts. It's a total flip flop of opinion.

We've got 9 intact redshirts by my count -- in a class of 22. Christy, Thomas, Irvin-Sills, Myles, Flowers, Wells, Hammond, Harris, Simpson
We've burned 9 redshirts this year thusfar -- Samuel, Cleveland, Coman, Clayborn, Williams, Wilson, Ross, Shumpert, Jones

Fact is, we will need to play a bunch of guys immediately next year -- or else we're going to be dealing with one TINY class in 4 more years EXACTLY like we currently are as our senior class.

Same roster mistakes in year 5 that were made in year 1 from where I'm sitting.

[HancockCountyDog]

Exactly.

I don't see how someone can defend redshirting practically everyone -- and then turn around and defend burning over half of our redshirts. It's a total flip flop of opinion.

We've got 9 intact redshirts by my count -- in a class of 22. Christy, Thomas, Irvin-Sills, Myles, Flowers, Wells, Hammond, Harris, Simpson
We've burned 9 redshirts this year thusfar -- Samuel, Cleveland, Coman, Clayborn, Williams, Wilson, Ross, Shumpert, Jones

Fact is, we will need to play a bunch of guys immediately next year -- or else we're going to be dealing with one TINY class in 4 more years EXACTLY like we currently are as our senior class...

With our depth at RB, there is really no reason that Shump should have played this year unless it was a promise to get him here.

All I know is that if Clayborn turns out to be as good as I think he will be, we are going to be pissed that we don't have him for another year after his senior year.

[maroonmania]

With our depth at RB, there is really no reason that Shump should have played this year unless it was a promise to get him here.

All I know is that if Clayborn turns out to be as good as I think he will be, we are going to be pissed that we don't have him for another year after his senior year.

This RS being burned was just the result of not bringing in enough SEC quality OL over the past several classes. At G we had essentially G. Jackson and Justin Malone and Beckwith behind both of those. Then we lose Malone and now Beckwith moves to a starter. Apparently none of the other guards on the roster are performning so we had to go down to the true freshman and play Clayborn along with Jackson and Beckwith. Bears are playing a lot of true freshmen OL as well but they were SUPPOSE to be thinner than us since they weren't redshirting under Nutt anywhere near the rate we were.

[smootness]

Exactly.

I don't see how someone can defend redshirting practically everyone -- and then turn around and defend burning over half of our redshirts. It's a total flip flop of opinion.

We've got 9 intact redshirts by my count -- in a class of 22. Christy, Thomas, Irvin-Sills, Myles, Flowers, Wells, Hammond, Harris, Simpson
We've burned 9 redshirts this year thusfar -- Samuel, Cleveland, Coman, Clayborn, Williams, Wilson, Ross, Shumpert, Jones

Fact is, we will need to play a bunch of guys immediately next year -- or else we're going to be dealing with one TINY class in 4 more years EXACTLY like we currently are as our senior class.

Same roster mistakes in year 5 that were made in year 1 from where I'm sitting.

From a roster management standpoint, Samuel and Coman have basically already had their redshirt year, so it's tough to consider those 'burned'. Chris Jones is obvious. I'm ok with burning Wilson's redshirt because he has been impactful and something we didn't already have. Ross is iffy - he hasn't been in a whole lot; we may feel like he isn't a 5-year guy anyway, so that one could go either way for me. I'm perfectly ok with burning Shumpert's because he isn't a 5-year guy and we will always bring in RBs; we can't expect to have him for a rsSR year, and even if we did, wouldn't that mean he wasn't as good as we thought?

Clayborn is a question mark, but justifiable. If we plan to start him next year, or figure him heavily into the rotation, it's good to get him adjusted to the college game first.

So to me, the iffy ones are Cleveland, Ross, and Williams. You can argue that once Russell went down, we had to use Williams, to get him acclimated in case of an emergency if nothing else. Cleveland and Ross, we'll see. But I think at worst, we unnecessarily burned only a couple.

It wasn't bad roster management to play bunch of the guys in 2009. Most of them played pretty important roles...somebody in this thread suggested we redshirt our best WR in 2009? That makes no sense.

It isn't bad roster management, it's that the 2010 and 2011 recruiting classes weren't good, so we're having to use some of these freshmen as depth.

But Coach and Dawg61 are correct...you simply can't redshirt everybody in every class unless you're prepared to start cutting a bunch of players. You have to make sure things even out. You can always plug holes with JUCOs if you need to, to even things out.

[engie]

This RS being burned was just the result of not bringing in enough SEC quality OL over the past several classes. At G we had essentially G. Jackson and Justin Malone and Beckwith behind both of those. Then we lose Malone and now Beckwith moves to a starter. Apparently none of the other guards on the roster are performning so we had to go down to the true freshman and play Clayborn along with Jackson and Beckwith. Bears are playing a lot of true freshmen OL as well but they were SUPPOSE to be thinner than us since they weren't redshirting under Nutt anywhere near the rate we were.

That's the most disconcerting part. Our second string at Guard in year 5 is a former walk-on and a true freshman...

[engie]

Why are we suddenly against cutting players in football? So, we're going to be morality police on that front -- while also being fine with cutting dead weight in baseball on the reg? Because it seems hypocritical to be making excuses on the football front -- while accepting the other because it makes us nationally prominent.

The simple fact of the matter is that the method that makes for the BEST MSU WE CAN BE -- is to sign roughly a full 25 every year, redshirt everyone you don't see as a 3 year NFL talent, and cut the dead weight every year. You can even do that in a given signing class(Ole Miss did last year). It's not about the individuals, it's about the greater good.

[HancockCountyDog]

Why are we suddenly against cutting players in football? So, we're going to be morality police on that front -- while also being fine with cutting dead weight in baseball on the reg? Because it seems hypocritical to be making excuses on the football front -- while accepting the other because it makes us nationally prominent.

The simple fact of the matter is that the method that makes for the BEST MSU WE CAN BE -- is to sign roughly a full 25 every year, redshirt everyone you don't see as a 3 year NFL talent, and cut the dead weight every year. You can even do that in a given signing class(Ole Miss did last year). It's not about the individuals, it's about the greater good.

I swear I said this exact same thing before the season, but you disagreed with me. It could be someone else.

Im just glad that more people are coming around. We have a lot of dead weight in this year's Junior class - I hope they have gotten their degree, they need to be finishing up their career at Belhaven.

[engie]

I swear I said this exact same thing before the season, but you disagreed with me. It could be someone else.

Im just glad that more people are coming around. We have a lot of dead weight in this year's Junior class - I hope they have gotten their degree, they need to be finishing up their career at Belhaven.

I still don't think there's much dead weight on our team right now. Obviously some on the OL at DL...

I've never been against cutting at all -- my point from before was more to get our fans to understand our roster situation to combat the Rebel propaganda that our fanbase would adopt when we "processed" what we, as fans, saw as a bunch of good players and the "Mullen is losing control of the team" bs came from them.

Now, we don't have to worry about it coming from them -- because it appears to be becoming reality all on it's own...

[hacker]

@smootness

- We expected Ross to be a contributor this year and played him the first week. I think others have stepped up and kept him lower on the depth chart.
- Tolando Cleveland has made some big plays this year and we need the depth in the secondary.
- Like you said, Russell went down, and Williams will be one snap from the field next year, so it's good to get him game experience. Also, we have two QBs with higher ceilings coming in next year.