If You Want To Know How Much MSU Football Has Grown...

[ShotgunDawg]

We aren't your father's & grand father's MSU any more. Stop the comparison.

I realize the growth may appear slow at times & we all want it to be faster, but this is pretty telling.

If the next 10 years we see continued growth, we'll be knocking on the door as a playoff type contender.

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[confucius say]

Mullen the MSU goat. Hope leach can match him

[ShotgunDawg]

Mullen the MSU goat. Hope leach can match him

The other major thing to consider here is that the overwhelming majority of these 16 players came from 1 side of the ball.

If the offense can just match or come close to the defense in talent level, we're a top 15 program.

That's what people don't understand about MSU football. They think this is the ceiling. But when you really inspect what has happened & how it happened, it's completely clear that there are weaknesses & holes in what we've done. While solid & impressive, the ship has only been running at about 70% capacity or less.

MSU football has not reached it's ceiling yet. Not close.

[confucius say]

We aren't your father's & grand father's MSU any more. Stop the comparison.

I realize the growth may appear slow at times & we all want it to be faster, but this is pretty telling.

If the next 10 years we see continued growth, we'll be knocking on the door as a playoff type contender.

1253906117840732160

Interesting. What team would you compare us to in each of the other Power 5 conferences? And in the sec for that matter?

[confucius say]

The other major thing to consider here is that the overwhelming majority of these 16 players came from 1 side of the ball.

If the offense can just match or come close to the defense in talent level, we're a top 15 program.

Good point. And with major turnover at the DC spot during that time. It should be easier to recruit defensive talent to state. The key to me is just having the qb in place and him playing at a high level.

[ShotgunDawg]

Interesting. What team would you compare us to in each of the other Power 5 conferences? And in the sec for that matter?

I've always felt that MSU was tough team to compare to teams in other conferences because it's a unique situation.

1. Our history is distorted by a lack of home games, biased SEC scheduling, & poverty. Those are facts. We are a new program due to more resources & home games. We played AT LSU for about 38 out of 40 years at one point. We played Bama every year when others did not. Most people don't realize this & how these types of things combined with no power in-state politics, having to play every home game in Jackson, etc basically go MSU football no way of growing.

2. We are smack dab in the middle of the best recruiting area in America. I could compare us to Utah, but they don't have that advantage.

So, all that to say, we are tough comparison. Maybe we are late 90s Clemson right now.

I think a good comparison to MSU is the 1980s Atlanta Braves. Resources are there, but because of piss poor management & instability, we cut our nuts off for the better half of a century

[confucius say]

I've always felt that MSU was tough team to compare to teams in other conferences because it's a unique situation.

1. Our history is distorted by a lack of home games, biased SEC scheduling, & poverty. Those are facts. We are a new program due to more resources & home games. We played AT LSU for about 38 out of 40 years at one point. We played Bama every year when others did not. Most people don't realize this & how these types of things combined with no power in-state politics, having to play every home game in Jackson, etc basically go MSU football no way of growing.

2. We are smack dab in the middle of the best recruiting area in America. I could compare us to Utah, but they don't have that advantage.

So, all that to say, we are tough comparison. Maybe we are late 90s Clemson right now.

I think a good comparison to MSU is the 1980s Atlanta Braves. Resources are there, but because of piss poor management & instability, we cut our nuts off for the better half of a century

Welcome back Shotgun!

Yea it's tough to compare. But just from how we are seen by the college football world as far as being on the same level or "as good" as other P5 schools, I say we are prob seen like:

Arizona state or cal from pac 12
Kansas state or west va from big 12
NW or Iowa from Big 10
Louisville or NC state from ACC

[ShotgunDawg]

Welcome back Shotgun!

Yea it's tough to compare. But just from how we are seen by the college football world as far as being on the same level or "as good" as other P5 schools, I say we are prob seen like:

Arizona state or cal from pac 12
Kansas state or west va from big 12
NW or Iowa from Big 10
Louisville or NC state from ACC

Arizona State May be a good comparison.

I realize how we're seen compared to those teams, but we simply have a great capacity to acquire talent than these teams.

We're unique.

[Cooterpoot]

It's simply the rise in P5 conferences and the SEC being the big dog. Mullen built the program, but any good coach could've. He wasn't a great recruiter.
Just look at Smart's comments this week about non-SEC schools negatively recruiting by saying the SEC is too tough and competitive. We're in the NFL minor league.

[R2Dawg]

It's simply the rise in P5 conferences and the SEC being the big dog. Mullen built the program, but any good coach could've. He wasn't a great recruiter.
Just look at Smart's comments this week about non-SEC schools negatively recruiting by saying the SEC is too tough and competitive. We're in the NFL minor league.

Partly true but MSU had to rise to the occasion to take advantage of the SEC dominance too. Look at Ark how far they have fallen having once been a solid program. In SEC nothing is given to you, you gotta earn it. MSU has moved up the pecking order. No more doormat in SEC. We are a solid middle SEC school.

And Mullen didn't build it all either. It started with JWS. Time for CML to take the next step.

[Cooterpoot]

Partly true but MSU had to rise to the occasion to take advantage of the SEC dominance too. Look at Ark how far they have fallen having once been a solid program. In SEC nothing is given to you, you gotta earn it. MSU has moved up the pecking order. No more doormat in SEC. We are a solid middle SEC school.

And Mullen didn't build it all either. It started with JWS. Time for CML to take the next step.

We haven't really moved up much. From last in our division to a 4th/5th place team basically. We had one huge season that fell apart late. We schedule easy wins OOC. We almost went AR with Moorhead.
Sherrill in no way had anything to do with the last ten years.

[R2Dawg]

We haven't really moved up much. From last in our division to a 4th/5th place team basically. We had one huge season that fell apart late. We schedule easy wins OOC.
Sherrill in no way had anything to do with the last ten years.

First I said SEC. SECW is not a fair comparison but yes we have. We hold our own against Aub and TAMU last 5 years. Beat LSU twice so you can't say we haven't moved up. 5th in SECW is middle of SEC.

On JWS, you are wrong. Mullen even said so himself when he came here. JWS won SECW. He showed we could compete on a national stage in game 1 when he arrived.

[ShotgunDawg]

A rising tide has lifted most ships but Ole Miss, Ark, Kentucky, and Vandy have not been lifted.

It's why a 16 team playoff would do wonders for MSU.

[confucius say]

JWS showed you could win here. That is true.

He also left the program in the shitter when he left and it had to be rebuilt. Mullen didn't receive any benefit from anything JWS had done except for our fans mentally knowing we could win.

[confucius say]

A rising tide has lifted most ships but Ole Miss, Ark, Kentucky, and Vandy have not been lifted.

It's why a 16 team playoff would do wonders for MSU.

KY has been lifted.

[R2Dawg]

JWS showed you could win here. That is true.

He also left the program in the shitter when he left and it had to be rebuilt. Mullen didn't receive any benefit from anything JWS had done except for our fans mentally knowing we could win.

Wrong. JWS showed everyone you could win at MSU - other teams, players, alumni, media, etc. That gave others after him the ability to attract the talent and sell a vision.

Let any coach stay somewhere 13 years other than Saban and see what happens - they all overstay their effectiveness. Dan starting losing it too - fact, but he left he imploded.

[ShotgunDawg]

KY has been lifted.

They've just a few good years. They haven't sustained it yet.

[confucius say]

Wrong. JWS showed everyone you could win at MSU - other teams, players, alumni, media, etc. That gave others after him the ability to attract the talent and sell a vision.

Let any coach stay somewhere 13 years other than Saban and see what happens - they all overstay their effectiveness. Dan starting losing it too - fact, but he left he imploded.

Ok. So not just fans. Showed fans plus others that you could win here. But he still left the program in the shitter. Had to be totally rebuilt.

Dan didnt lose anything. He went 8-4 his last year and left a 2018 team that was loaded and should have been 10-2 at worst (beat KY and FLA). JWS left a mess.

[confucius say]

They've just a few good years. They haven't sustained it yet.

True. We will see if they can stay at the bowl eligible level to slightly better level

[redstickdawg]

Ok. So not just fans. Showed fans plus others that you could win here. But he still left the program in the shitter. Had to be totally rebuilt.

Dan didnt lose anything. He went 8-4 his last year and left a 2018 team that was loaded and should have been 10-2 at worst (beat KY and FLA). JWS left a mess.

Mullen didn't have the NCAA, johannigmeier and xenareb framing him either. That was the major difference in my view. JWS was in a no win situation with the NCAA investigation that was nothing more than an excuse to destroy our program.

[R2Dawg]

Ok. So not just fans. Showed fans plus others that you could win here. But he still left the program in the shitter. Had to be totally rebuilt.

Dan didnt lose anything. He went 8-4 his last year and left a 2018 team that was loaded and should have been 10-2 at worst (beat KY and FLA). JWS left a mess.

Program wasn't in good shape after JWS but he did leave some talent here. Dan inherited as much or more a mess than JWS left. Dan lost 2 more games than he should have those last 3 years job shopping. JWS had a bad series of asst coach hires and one bad JUCO signing year that sunk him. Lost control of program a little like Stans.

Mullen might not have come here had JWS not won big all thru the 90s. Mullen as much said so when we hired him.

[R2Dawg]

Mullen didn't have the NCAA, johannigmeier and xenareb framing him either. That was the major difference in my view. JWS was in a no win situation with the NCAA investigation that was nothing more than an excuse to destroy our program.

True that Jackie had some enemies that had to destroy what he built.

[Coach34]

Mullen built the program, but any good coach could've. He wasn't a great recruiter.

In retrospect, Mullen was a damn good recruiter. His evaluation of HS talent is one of the best in the country. Prescott, McKinney, numerous OL guys, etc. He did a great job seeing what type of players undervalued guys would be in 2-3 years in the program. We recruited extremely well on the DL as well.

What he didnt do is recruit well at WR. The only time we won 10 games was when we had a legit WR group. Wilson was a tough match-up for college players- and the 2 Fred's have been in and out of NFL camps since leaving. His lack of WR crooting was why we were an 8 win team instead of pushing for 10 wins more often. Say what you want about Fitz- but as a Soph he had Fred and Fred caught 70 plus balls. Nobody else came close after that

[QuadrupleOption]

1) I consider the modern era of MSU to have started in 1991 when we hired Jackie Sherrill and showed that we wanted to compete seriously in the SEC.
2) Mullen did a good job here and built us up after the Croom experiment, but Croom set the table for Mullen to do so. The program was a mess when Croom took over, but Croom never did himself any favors either.
3) Given that we really only started seriously competing 30 years ago, we're doing just fine against programs who have had it together for much longer than us. The national perception of our program has changed and we aren't considered a low-tier program any more.
4) Sustain and build. Even if it's incremental, eventually we'll break through. As frustrating as it can be sometimes, I think all we need to do is maintain our defensive recruiting and start pulling in some more skill position players on offense. Assuming our defense doesn't go down the tubes, I think Leach is the right coach to do that for us.

[Todd4State]

The other major thing to consider here is that the overwhelming majority of these 16 players came from 1 side of the ball.

If the offense can just match or come close to the defense in talent level, we're a top 15 program.

That's what people don't understand about MSU football. They think this is the ceiling. But when you really inspect what has happened & how it happened, it's completely clear that there are weaknesses & holes in what we've done. While solid & impressive, the ship has only been running at about 70% capacity or less.

MSU football has not reached it's ceiling yet. Not close.


I've always felt that MSU was tough team to compare to teams in other conferences because it's a unique situation.

1. Our history is distorted by a lack of home games, biased SEC scheduling, & poverty. Those are facts. We are a new program due to more resources & home games. We played AT LSU for about 38 out of 40 years at one point. We played Bama every year when others did not. Most people don't realize this & how these types of things combined with no power in-state politics, having to play every home game in Jackson, etc basically go MSU football no way of growing.

2. We are smack dab in the middle of the best recruiting area in America. I could compare us to Utah, but they don't have that advantage.

So, all that to say, we are tough comparison. Maybe we are late 90s Clemson right now.

I think a good comparison to MSU is the 1980s Atlanta Braves. Resources are there, but because of piss poor management & instability, we cut our nuts off for the better half of a century


It's simply the rise in P5 conferences and the SEC being the big dog. Mullen built the program, but any good coach could've. He wasn't a great recruiter.
Just look at Smart's comments this week about non-SEC schools negatively recruiting by saying the SEC is too tough and competitive. We're in the NFL minor league.


Wrong. JWS showed everyone you could win at MSU - other teams, players, alumni, media, etc. That gave others after him the ability to attract the talent and sell a vision.

Let any coach stay somewhere 13 years other than Saban and see what happens - they all overstay their effectiveness. Dan starting losing it too - fact, but he left he imploded.


Mullen didn't have the NCAA, johannigmeier and xenareb framing him either. That was the major difference in my view. JWS was in a no win situation with the NCAA investigation that was nothing more than an excuse to destroy our program.

Lot of great posts in this thread. I will say Dan had to deal with Freeze which may have been worse because than what Jackie had to deal with in some ways. Not from a character standpoint of course, but from a blatant cheating standpoint. I'm sure that's frustrating to someone like a Mullen who tried to do things the right way.

[Todd4State]

The other major thing to consider here is that the overwhelming majority of these 16 players came from 1 side of the ball.

If the offense can just match or come close to the defense in talent level, we're a top 15 program.

That's what people don't understand about MSU football. They think this is the ceiling. But when you really inspect what has happened & how it happened, it's completely clear that there are weaknesses & holes in what we've done. While solid & impressive, the ship has only been running at about 70% capacity or less.

MSU football has not reached it's ceiling yet. Not close.


I've always felt that MSU was tough team to compare to teams in other conferences because it's a unique situation.

1. Our history is distorted by a lack of home games, biased SEC scheduling, & poverty. Those are facts. We are a new program due to more resources & home games. We played AT LSU for about 38 out of 40 years at one point. We played Bama every year when others did not. Most people don't realize this & how these types of things combined with no power in-state politics, having to play every home game in Jackson, etc basically go MSU football no way of growing.

2. We are smack dab in the middle of the best recruiting area in America. I could compare us to Utah, but they don't have that advantage.

So, all that to say, we are tough comparison. Maybe we are late 90s Clemson right now.

I think a good comparison to MSU is the 1980s Atlanta Braves. Resources are there, but because of piss poor management & instability, we cut our nuts off for the better half of a century


It's simply the rise in P5 conferences and the SEC being the big dog. Mullen built the program, but any good coach could've. He wasn't a great recruiter.
Just look at Smart's comments this week about non-SEC schools negatively recruiting by saying the SEC is too tough and competitive. We're in the NFL minor league.


Wrong. JWS showed everyone you could win at MSU - other teams, players, alumni, media, etc. That gave others after him the ability to attract the talent and sell a vision.

Let any coach stay somewhere 13 years other than Saban and see what happens - they all overstay their effectiveness. Dan starting losing it too - fact, but he left he imploded.


Mullen didn't have the NCAA, johannigmeier and xenareb framing him either. That was the major difference in my view. JWS was in a no win situation with the NCAA investigation that was nothing more than an excuse to destroy our program.


1) I consider the modern era of MSU to have started in 1991 when we hired Jackie Sherrill and showed that we wanted to compete seriously in the SEC.
2) Mullen did a good job here and built us up after the Croom experiment, but Croom set the table for Mullen to do so. The program was a mess when Croom took over, but Croom never did himself any favors either.
3) Given that we really only started seriously competing 30 years ago, we're doing just fine against programs who have had it together for much longer than us. The national perception of our program has changed and we aren't considered a low-tier program any more.
4) Sustain and build. Even if it's incremental, eventually we'll break through. As frustrating as it can be sometimes, I think all we need to do is maintain our defensive recruiting and start pulling in some more skill position players on offense. Assuming our defense doesn't go down the tubes, I think Leach is the right coach to do that for us.

Another good post. Not playing in Jackson has helped our program a lot and I think playing the Egg Bowl in Jackson hurt us some because Davis Wade is a lot more electric and no doubt that has helped our team some atmosphere wise in that game. Plus it's more hostile when the crowd is pro-MSU vs. split. Which kind of pains me in a way because I am a native of Jackson and in a fantasy world that doesn't exist it would be awesome if we played some games there but the reality is it's not feasible or what's best for MSU. Pretty unbelievable to go back and watch the 1980 MSU football highlight film and then realize we only played TWO home games that year. Both against non-SEC teams.

Think about this too- if we told our fans 30 years ago that we would fire a coach that went 2-0 against Ole Miss, won 8 games, and went to a bowl every year they probably would have said something like "I'll take those seasons. We would be stupid to fire any coach that does that! We'll never hire anyone good if we did that!" THAT just happened.

Jackie probably hit our ceiling at the time- and it took him about seven-eight years to get there. Dan came close- probably hit it in 2010 and 2014 but never really sustained it more than one season like Jackie. I'm hoping Leach can get us to winning 9-10 a year consistently. That's basically doing what we did under Dan and for one year Joe- winning 8 games that we're supposed to- but then beating someone we shouldn't that is on our level or slightly above. Which is what Jackie did at times to people like Alabama, Auburn, and Tennessee. And in the games that we do lose we need to be competitive. No 51-7 beatdowns to Alabama.

[ShotgunDawg]

Another good post. Not playing in Jackson has helped our program a lot and I think playing the Egg Bowl in Jackson hurt us some because Davis Wade is a lot more electric and no doubt that has helped our team some atmosphere wise in that game. Plus it's more hostile when the crowd is pro-MSU vs. split. Which kind of pains me in a way because I am a native of Jackson and in a fantasy world that doesn't exist it would be awesome if we played some games there but the reality is it's not feasible or what's best for MSU. Pretty unbelievable to go back and watch the 1980 MSU football highlight film and then realize we only played TWO home games that year. Both against non-SEC teams.

Think about this too- if we told our fans 30 years ago that we would fire a coach that went 2-0 against Ole Miss, won 8 games, and went to a bowl every year they probably would have said something like "I'll take those seasons. We would be stupid to fire any coach that does that! We'll never hire anyone good if we did that!" THAT just happened.

Jackie probably hit our ceiling at the time- and it took him about seven-eight years to get there. Dan came close- probably hit it in 2010 and 2014 but never really sustained it more than one season like Jackie. I'm hoping Leach can get us to winning 9-10 a year consistently. That's basically doing what we did under Dan and for one year Joe- winning 8 games that we're supposed to- but then beating someone we shouldn't that is on our level or slightly above. Which is what Jackie did at times to people like Alabama, Auburn, and Tennessee. And in the games that we do lose we need to be competitive. No 51-7 beatdowns to Alabama.

Correct.

The program never had a chance until 1991 and since then we?ve slowly been pecking away at the perception that the blue bloods are far better than us.

While we still have a long ways ago, I do think we are making progress. For example: to outsiders the gap between Auburn and MSU isn?t what it used to be.

We?ve only scrapped 60-70% of our ceiling. I?m convinced of that.

[Todd4State]

Correct.

The program never had a chance until 1991 and since then we?ve slowly been pecking away at the perception that the blue bloods are far better than us.

While we still have a long ways ago, I do think we are making progress. For example: to outsiders the gap between Auburn and MSU isn?t what it used to be.

We?ve only scrapped 60-70% of our ceiling. I?m convinced of that.

The other thing that has been against us is the fact that at one time Ole Miss was a superpower even if it was 50 years ago. 30 years ago Ole Miss was only 20 years removed from their glory days and Brewer was taking them to bowls and occasionally knocking off people like Alabama.

We've had to fight that history too.

What's happened is since 1969 we have started to become more and more the largest college in Mississippi- not sure when our enrollment surpassed Ole Miss but it has been that way for awhile. I think we are slowly becoming THE college in Mississippi as Ole Miss has focused a lot on out of state students. That naturally causes local football players to be more and more interested in MSU. Which wasn't the case 50 years ago. It's interesting to look at the rosters for Ole Miss and MSU when Archie played. Every single player on Ole Miss's team in 1969 was from Mississippi. We had certainly had some from Mississippi but we also had a lot from Texas. Now think about how many players we have on our roster from Mississippi compared to Ole Miss. That shift also affects other things in state as well from a political level on down to other things. Starkville as a college town keeps improving too and that's very important as well. The past 25 years have been remarkable on that front. I don't remember anyone talking about the Cotton District 25 years ago.

And while I don't think the rivalry has to be "toxic" I do think it was very wise of Greg Byrne and Dan Mullen to focus on it because to BE the team in Mississippi we have to beat Ole Miss on the field. And since 1991 we mostly have. Of course the rivalry only seems to be "toxic" when we're beating them.

USM kind of got processed out with the Power five shift and that also helped us out as well as us playing them again some and beating the tar out of them on the field. One of our best teams losing to USM in 1980 was a bad look for us for years but we've fixed that now too.

I also think playing Jackson State and Alcorn in football was a very wise move too. I'm sure we've made some casual fans just because we did that because just by playing them we helped those schools out a lot.

[TheLostDawg]

In retrospect, Mullen was a damn good recruiter. His evaluation of HS talent is one of the best in the country. Prescott, McKinney, numerous OL guys, etc. He did a great job seeing what type of players undervalued guys would be in 2-3 years in the program. We recruited extremely well on the DL as well.

What he didnt do is recruit well at WR. The only time we won 10 games was when we had a legit WR group. Wilson was a tough match-up for college players- and the 2 Fred's have been in and out of NFL camps since leaving. His lack of WR crooting was why we were an 8 win team instead of pushing for 10 wins more often. Say what you want about Fitz- but as a Soph he had Fred and Fred caught 70 plus balls. Nobody else came close after that

I don't consider picking diamonds in the rough being a good recruiter. Dan lost so many recruits that we could and should have had because he couldn't get elite talent that was sought after.
I do think he was a great evaluator on talent. That's why we hit a home for players like B Mac and others.

[ShotgunDawg]

I don't consider picking diamonds in the rough being a good recruiter. Dan lost so many recruits that we could and should have had because he couldn't get elite talent that was sought after.
I do think he was a great evaluator on talent. That's why we hit a home for players like B Mac and others.

This is correct.

They're two different things.

Evaluating requires intelligence and a strong belief in what makes a good player.

Recruiting requires effort, personality, and charisma.

Two completely different things. You need both to win big along with actually coaching ability.

Dan would be a far better NFL coach/GM like Belichick than a recruiter.

[bulldawg28]

Mullen the MSU goat. Hope leach can match him

Hopefully so. Mullen is easily our best coach thus far in football.

[confucius say]

Hopefully so. Mullen is easily our best coach thus far in football.

Easily.

And it can be done. Dan averaged 7.1-4.9. I think leach can match that the next decade. He is taking over a team similar in talent to dans first team plus much better qb.

[bulldawg28]

I don't consider picking diamonds in the rough being a good recruiter. Dan lost so many recruits that we could and should have had because he couldn't get elite talent that was sought after.
I do think he was a great evaluator on talent. That's why we hit a home for players like B Mac and others.

You obviously don't understand recruiting and development if you think it was by chance these players were discovered and "polished to become diamonds ". That's all Mullen

[ShotgunDawg]

You obviously don't understand recruiting and development if you think it was by chance these players were discovered and "polished to become diamonds ". That's all Mullen

I think he understands, but that’s not recruiting. That’s scouting and player development. Not recruiting.

Recruiting is the act of convincing a player that has equal or better options to come to your school.

Finding a diamond in the rough is scouting.

[Todd4State]

I don't consider picking diamonds in the rough being a good recruiter. Dan lost so many recruits that we could and should have had because he couldn't get elite talent that was sought after.
I do think he was a great evaluator on talent. That's why we hit a home for players like B Mac and others.

This guy gets it.

[DeviousDawg]

We aren't your father's & grand father's MSU any more. Stop the comparison.

I realize the growth may appear slow at times & we all want it to be faster, but this is pretty telling.

If the next 10 years we see continued growth, we'll be knocking on the door as a playoff type contender.

1253906117840732160

I have been working on a detailed post/story that touches on this. Mainly I will focus on the past 25 years and how they lead us to where we are now, and where it will lead us over the next decade.

In short, and without spoiling my upcoming post, we are entering a new age of MSU football. 25 years ago it began with Sherrill recruiting and building a team that could compete with the big boys, even with the massive gap in resources between us and the big names. Sherrill showed first we can win consistently at MSU, but also that we could win at a high level after winning the SECw in 1998. Then we back tracked, and hard, but in hind sight we learned something, we have to define our identity as a team with tough, but disciplined Dawgs. We learned that we couldn?t cut corners, we had to do it the right way, and we paid for that lesson. After 3 years or so of the NCAA mess and program collapse due to the black cloud created and sustained by the OM media, Sherrill was fired and we made an unpopular, but probably wise decision. We hired someone who would clean the program up and clear our name with the NCAA. It was a step back to take two steps forward. After years of irrelevance Croom brought us back to a bowl game in 2007, before laying an egg in his final season(?08). Little did we MSU fans know, we were about to make a hire that would lead us to a decade of consecutive bowl appearances, and a seat at the table of relevance. Thanks to croom?s management of the program and it?s personnel, Mullen was able to step in and basically start competing and eventually winning right away. Fast forward 10 years, and here we are, with one of the best coaches in College Football, a program that can recruit consistently in the top 25 with athletes growing on trees in all directions from starkville. We have made it, the hardest jump, the jump from irrelevance to relevance, and it took 25 years of learning from mistakes, doing it the right way, and grinding it out to reach your goals. If croom hadn?t cleaned the program, Mullen wouldn?t have been able to turn it around as quickly, and then without the SECN and the money it?s deal brought, I don?t think we would be where we are today either, it was a perfect storm of sorts, that we rode to relevance. We parlayed building a program with getting blue blood type athletic department money, and that lead to where we are today, a top 25 college football program.

The 90s- we learned we can, but had to do it the right way

The 00s- we made the bed we slept in, but didn?t cut corners, without this shitty decade of MSU football, I?m not sure we are where we are today, we broke it down to build it back up stronger. This decade was when we built the foundation, and let it solidify.

The 10s- we learned to win, made a bowl game every year, reached the #1 spot, and took 2 steps forward while OM cut corners and had to take 2 steps back. This decade was when we built the house on the new foundation, each year, slowly but surely, adding and adding until the house was built by 2017, and showed that it was able to withhold the cat 4 winds of shitty Hurricane JoMo, and make it out on the other side unscathed and ready to add on.

The 20s- I?ve never been more excited about a decade of football. It started with a bang, hiring one of the best coaches in the world, who will surely be here for the majority if not the entire upcoming decade. Now we get to reap what we sowed over the last 25 years, and continue to build, the 20s will be the decade that MSU shows that we have officially arrived and are here to stay.

Exciting times

[ShotgunDawg]

I have been working on a detailed post/story that touches on this. Mainly I will focus on the past 25 years and how they lead us to where we are now, and where it will lead us over the next decade.

In short, and without spoiling my upcoming post, we are entering a new age of MSU football. 25 years ago it began with Sherrill recruiting and building a team that could compete with the big boys, even with the massive gap in resources between us and the big names. Sherrill showed first we can win consistently at MSU, but also that we could win at a high level after winning the SECw in 1998. Then we back tracked, and hard, but in hind sight we learned something, we have to define our identity as a team with tough, but disciplined Dawgs. We learned that we couldn?t cut corners, we had to do it the right way, and we paid for that lesson. After 3 years or so of the NCAA mess and program collapse due to the black cloud created and sustained by the OM media, Sherrill was fired and we made an unpopular, but probably wise decision. We hired someone who would clean the program up and clear our name with the NCAA. It was a step back to take two steps forward. After years of irrelevance Croom brought us back to a bowl game in 2007, before laying an egg in his final season(?08). Little did we MSU fans know, we were about to make a hire that would lead us to a decade of consecutive bowl appearances, and a seat at the table of relevance. Thanks to croom?s management of the program and it?s personnel, Mullen was able to step in and basically start competing and eventually winning right away. Fast forward 10 years, and here we are, with one of the best coaches in College Football, a program that can recruit consistently in the top 25 with athletes growing on trees in all directions from starkville. We have made it, the hardest jump, the jump from irrelevance to relevance, and it took 25 years of learning from mistakes, doing it the right way, and grinding it out to reach your goals. If croom hadn?t cleaned the program, Mullen wouldn?t have been able to turn it around as quickly, and then without the SECN and the money it?s deal brought, I don?t think we would be where we are today either, it was a perfect storm of sorts, that we rode to relevance. We parlayed building a program with getting blue blood type athletic department money, and that lead to where we are today, a top 25 college football program.

The 90s- we learned we can, but had to do it the right way

The 00s- we made the bed we slept in, but didn?t cut corners, without this shitty decade of MSU football, I?m not sure we are where we are today, we broke it down to build it back up stronger. This decade was when we built the foundation, and let it solidify.

The 10s- we learned to win, made a bowl game every year, reached the #1 spot, and took 2 steps forward while OM cut corners and had to take 2 steps back. This decade was when we built the house on the new foundation, each year, slowly but surely, adding and adding until the house was built by 2017, and showed that it was able to withhold the cat 4 winds of shitty Hurricane JoMo, and make it out on the other side unscathed and ready to add on.

The 20s- I?ve never been more excited about a decade of football. It started with a bang, hiring one of the best coaches in the world, who will surely be here for the majority if not the entire upcoming decade. Now we get to reap what we sowed over the last 25 years, and continue to build, the 20s will be the decade that MSU shows that we have officially arrived and are here to stay.

Exciting times

Great post. Hopefully Leach can cap his career off here

[Todd4State]

I have been working on a detailed post/story that touches on this. Mainly I will focus on the past 25 years and how they lead us to where we are now, and where it will lead us over the next decade.

In short, and without spoiling my upcoming post, we are entering a new age of MSU football. 25 years ago it began with Sherrill recruiting and building a team that could compete with the big boys, even with the massive gap in resources between us and the big names. Sherrill showed first we can win consistently at MSU, but also that we could win at a high level after winning the SECw in 1998. Then we back tracked, and hard, but in hind sight we learned something, we have to define our identity as a team with tough, but disciplined Dawgs. We learned that we couldn?t cut corners, we had to do it the right way, and we paid for that lesson. After 3 years or so of the NCAA mess and program collapse due to the black cloud created and sustained by the OM media, Sherrill was fired and we made an unpopular, but probably wise decision. We hired someone who would clean the program up and clear our name with the NCAA. It was a step back to take two steps forward. After years of irrelevance Croom brought us back to a bowl game in 2007, before laying an egg in his final season(?08). Little did we MSU fans know, we were about to make a hire that would lead us to a decade of consecutive bowl appearances, and a seat at the table of relevance. Thanks to croom?s management of the program and it?s personnel, Mullen was able to step in and basically start competing and eventually winning right away. Fast forward 10 years, and here we are, with one of the best coaches in College Football, a program that can recruit consistently in the top 25 with athletes growing on trees in all directions from starkville. We have made it, the hardest jump, the jump from irrelevance to relevance, and it took 25 years of learning from mistakes, doing it the right way, and grinding it out to reach your goals. If croom hadn?t cleaned the program, Mullen wouldn?t have been able to turn it around as quickly, and then without the SECN and the money it?s deal brought, I don?t think we would be where we are today either, it was a perfect storm of sorts, that we rode to relevance. We parlayed building a program with getting blue blood type athletic department money, and that lead to where we are today, a top 25 college football program.

The 90s- we learned we can, but had to do it the right way

The 00s- we made the bed we slept in, but didn?t cut corners, without this shitty decade of MSU football, I?m not sure we are where we are today, we broke it down to build it back up stronger. This decade was when we built the foundation, and let it solidify.

The 10s- we learned to win, made a bowl game every year, reached the #1 spot, and took 2 steps forward while OM cut corners and had to take 2 steps back. This decade was when we built the house on the new foundation, each year, slowly but surely, adding and adding until the house was built by 2017, and showed that it was able to withhold the cat 4 winds of shitty Hurricane JoMo, and make it out on the other side unscathed and ready to add on.

The 20s- I?ve never been more excited about a decade of football. It started with a bang, hiring one of the best coaches in the world, who will surely be here for the majority if not the entire upcoming decade. Now we get to reap what we sowed over the last 25 years, and continue to build, the 20s will be the decade that MSU shows that we have officially arrived and are here to stay.

Exciting times

Must spread more rep before giving it to DeviousDawg again.

[Todd4State]

The other thing that amazed me watching the NFL draft- how many former MSU players were mentioned.

Dak had an ad.
Chris Jones
Fletcher Cox
Darius Slay
Gabe Jackson
Montez Sweat
Jonathan Abrams
Jeffrey Simmons
Joe Judge

Really incredible even though we didn't have a player drafted in the first round. Some of those players are among the best at their positions. 10 years ago an All-Time MSU team would have included a lot of guys that didn't do much in the NFL or guys that were legends in Canada.

[Jarius]

It's simply the rise in P5 conferences and the SEC being the big dog. Mullen built the program, but any good coach could've. He wasn't a great recruiter.
Just look at Smart's comments this week about non-SEC schools negatively recruiting by saying the SEC is too tough and competitive. We're in the NFL minor league.

Yes, which is why Sherrill is the GOAT at MSU. If Sherrill would have gotten to play an extra cupcake every year and had the extra sec money then He would have had even more success here. Mullen is a good coach that took advantage of the SEC money explosion and great scheduling. Without the 12th game he doesn’t go bowling in 11, 13, or 16 and his record looks just like Jackie’s did except he had many more advantages than Jackie did. Take a look at what Jackie did at programs with equal resources. He was elite at Pitt and the best coach A&M has had since I’ve been alive. What he did here with the true lack of resources was unheard of and amazing.

[bulldawg28]

Yes, which is why Sherrill is the GOAT at MSU. If Sherrill would have gotten to play an extra cupcake every year and had the extra sec money then He would have had even more success here. Mullen is a good coach that took advantage of the SEC money explosion and great scheduling. Without the 12th game he doesn’t go bowling in 11, 13, or 16 and his record looks just like Jackie’s did except he had many more advantages than Jackie did. Take a look at what Jackie did at programs with equal resources. He was elite at Pitt and the best coach A&M has had since I’ve been alive. What he did here with the true lack of resources was unheard of and amazing.

I played under Sherill and he never got the most out of an entire team. Even when Jackie started losing his teams still had PLENTY of talent. Mullen would have won 8 games minimum with Jackie's talent yearly and won a few SEC championships.

[Jarius]

I played under Sherill and he never got the most out of an entire team. Even when Jackie started losing his teams still had PLENTY of talent. Mullen would have won 8 games minimum with Jackie's talent yearly and won a few SEC championships.

Mullen won 7.5 games a year with a 12 game schedule. He would not have won 8 with an 11 game schedule and a budget that was much closer to USM than Alabama. Jackie had way more obstacles than Mullen, including the NCAA while his wife had cancer.

[Dawgfan77]

I played under Sherill and he never got the most out of an entire team. Even when Jackie started losing his teams still had PLENTY of talent. Mullen would have won 8 games minimum with Jackie's talent yearly and won a few SEC championships.

I loved JWS but you are 100% accurate here. He lost games we had no business losing to in most years. ULM ARState OSU Memphis to name a few

[Jarius]

I loved JWS but you are 100% accurate here. He lost games we had no business losing to in most years. ULM ARState OSU Memphis to name a few

That was a different era where the talent levels of the P5 and G5 were much closer because the sec money explosion had not happened yet. I’m not saying he should have lost those games but it was a much more normal occurrence to lose to those type teams than it is now.

[ShotgunDawg]

Mullen did an amazing job, but it still pisses me off that I don't think we ever got 100% effort.

He has one foot out the door 80% of the time he was at MSU & there is simply no way you can put forth the effort in recruiting necessary with that being the case.

I still think he could've achieved an entirely different level here than what he achieved.

That's also one thing that excites me about Leach. I think Leach views this as HIS CHANCE & we'll get 100% effort.

[Todd4State]

I played under Sherill and he never got the most out of an entire team. Even when Jackie started losing his teams still had PLENTY of talent. Mullen would have won 8 games minimum with Jackie's talent yearly and won a few SEC championships.

If we're honest we rarely got that out of Dan either. 2010 is really the only year he did.

[maroonmania]

Mullen did an amazing job, but it still pisses me off that I don't think we ever got 100% effort.



Agree. 2 factors kept Dan Mullen from being all he could have been at MSU. As you mention, one was he was often distracted with job shopping and not giving 100% effort, especially toward the end of seasons in his later years. Second, his changing DCs like he changed his underwear was a hindrance as well. Seems like nearly every year our defensive players had a new guy with a new scheme to learn. Just think how much better we could have been with some consistency on the defensive side of the ball like we had on the offensive side. Seemed like it was not until Grantham came in that Mullen found someone he could coexist with on that side of the ball. Unfortunately, we only got one year of that pairing before Dan moved on.

[Todd4State]

Agree. 2 factors kept Dan Mullen from being all he could have been at MSU. As you mention, one was he was often distracted with job shopping and not giving 100% effort, especially toward the end of seasons in his later years. Second, his changing DCs like he changed his underwear was a hindrance as well. Seems like nearly every year our defensive players had a new guy with a new scheme to learn. Just think how much better we could have been with some consistency on the defensive side of the ball like we had on the offensive side. Seemed like it was not until Grantham came in that Mulen found someone he could coexist with on that side of the ball. Unfortunately, we only got one year of that pairing before Dan moved on.

And third- roster management. We're just now starting to overcome his WR recruiting shortfalls. We've struggled at OT for years and OL recruiting for awhile too. And yes, I know we've started to put some guys in the NFL recently at that position group- but one was recruited by Croom (Gabe Jackson), one was a last minute add and no one else really recruited him (Elgton Jenkins), and a couple were JUCO's that he missed out on high school- better late than never but still (Rankin and Phillips), and the other guy was from Canada (Senior).

We simply have holes at entire position groups like that and reach our full potential. This past year it was DT. We can't afford to start true freshmen or go all smurf WR like we did in 2016.