I think Mike Leach is going to thrive at MSU

[Todd4State]

1. He's a genius play caller that has shown that he can get the most out of three star talent on the offensive side of the ball. I think we're about to see some offensive records fall during his tenure.

2. MSU is the first place that he has ever been where he can attract top tier defensive talent and top tier coordinators. This paired with number one means I could potentially see us having even better results than he had at Texas Tech or Washington State.

3. He has a legit ST coach who was a Broyles nominee. Unlike Dan for the first seven years and Joe he has someone that knows what he is doing.

4. Recruiting was my biggest concern and to my surprise he has been better than I anticipated. His offense will attract QB's and WR's- two of the most difficult things for us to recruit traditionally. There is typically a TON of defensive talent in Mississippi. If we land what we typically do we should be in for some good days. Even recruiting at 25- if Leach continues to coach up players like he has at his other stops we will be fine.

5. He has plenty of head coaching experience. He won't be learning on the job like Croom, Dan, or Joe.

[Bothrops]

#5 is the biggest point in my opinion.

[Liverpooldawg]

We will be a typical Leach team, eventually. Flashy, score a bunch of points. No defense to speak of, in other words, COMPLETELY different from the typical MSU team.

[Todd4State]

We will be a typical Leach team, eventually. Flashy, score a bunch of points. No defense to speak of, in other words, COMPLETELY different from the typical MSU team.

I think the main difference is we will score a bunch of points but we'll still struggle some against the blue bloods- but we'll still score more than usual. If we can score 21 on Bama we may have a chance to knock them off and will be at least in the game. So, I wouldn't be surprised if Leach's PPG average is actually a little lower with us.

But I disagree about the defense. Zach Arnett is by far the most known DC that he has hired and Syracuse was not happy that he took our job. I think he will be a SEC caliber DC and San Diego State's defense under Long and Arnett was similar to Leach's offense in that they took lower rated players and got big time production from them. MSU has long been able to attract good proven DC's even going back to the Jackie Sherrill days (Joe Lee Dunn) and Leach always has been at places where he had to go with an up and comer or a retread like Tracy Claeys. DC's want to come coach in the SEC and I believe we will continue to attract good DC's.

[R2Dawg]

#5 is the biggest point in my opinion.

#5 is big. #2 is also true. He will have best D he has ever had at MSU.

[R2Dawg]

We will be a typical Leach team, eventually. Flashy, score a bunch of points. No defense to speak of, in other words, COMPLETELY different from the typical MSU team.

This is a concern. While we are winning people will accept it - not being typical MSU. Soon as we lose some we shouldn't or look bad doing it - giving up 45pts a game, MSU fans will have a hard time. MSU is hard nose D, and physical run the ball. That is how any success we have had has happened.

[Walkerhill]

We will be a typical Leach team, eventually. Flashy, score a bunch of points. No defense to speak of, in other words, COMPLETELY different from the typical MSU team.

People are funny about Mike Leach. Love him or hate him, I guess.

You could say his defense have been poor. You could also say his defenses have drastically outperformed their talent level and coaching quality. Perhaps his defenses have been mostly middling and sometimes poor, but his defensive talent has been absolutely bottom shelf, measured either in recruiting rankings or NFL draft picks.

The interesting thing about Leach is arguably no one in college football history has done more with less. If you looked at ?wins above replacement? for college football coaches, he would be very, very high.

What happens when the best underdog coach of all time goes accesses a talent level he has never, ever coached BUT ALSO where every team has and spends big money, every other head coach is a marquee name, every coaching staff is legit, and every single team has good players and the good teams have elite players.

Who knows. I think the guy wins big by year 3 like always, but the bar is certainly higher.

[ShotgunDawg]

People are funny about Mike Leach. Love him or hate him, I guess.

You could say his defense have been poor. You could also say his defenses have drastically outperformed their talent level and coaching quality. Perhaps his defenses have been mostly middling and sometimes poor, but his defensive talent has been absolutely bottom shelf, measured either in recruiting rankings or NFL draft picks.

The interesting thing about Leach is arguably no one in college football history has done more with less. If you looked at ?wins above replacement? for college football coaches, he would be very, very high.

What happens when the best underdog coach of all time goes accesses a talent level he has never, ever coached BUT ALSO where every team has and spends big money, every other head coach is a marquee name, every coaching staff is legit, and every single team has good players and the good teams have elite players.

Who knows. I think the guy wins big by year 3 like always, but the bar is certainly higher.

This.

Has he ever had a top 3 round defensive player?

I think we’ll be pleasantly surprised about our defense

[Ari Gold]

We will be a typical Leach team, eventually. Flashy, score a bunch of points. No defense to speak of, in other words, COMPLETELY different from the typical MSU team.

Wash Stats had a top 20 defense just 2 years ago.
Leach will recruit better here than he did at either wash st or TT
He will get players on defense...

[R2Dawg]

The other thing about his Ds is his O scores so fast the D gets worn down and just tired for being on the field so much.

Going to be an interesting first few years.

[confucius say]

The other thing about his Ds is his O scores so fast the D gets worn down and just tired for being on the field so much.

Going to be an interesting first few years.

Time of possession numbers support this?

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Time of possession numbers support this?

Actually the opposite.

[confucius say]

Actually the opposite.

😎

[dawgday166]

I think the upside potential is very big. And I think his D talent should be better than anywhere he's been before. Mullen had good Ds too with mostly up & comers as DCs except for Grantham. But outside of Sirmon, Mullen always had a pretty good D.

Leach's D's will usually hit you, they just have been susceptible to explosive plays and giving up long TDs. Hope Arnett can keep a lid on those.

[Dawgology]

I agree. I think is offense and defense (both) will perform better here. If he leaves the defense to the defensive coordinator and they put some recruiters in there we could be very dangerous.

[R2Dawg]

Time of possession numbers support this?

Don't know about Leach's stats here but that is what every expert says about passing teams, TOP and D fatigue.

[Walkerhill]

The other thing about his Ds is his O scores so fast the D gets worn down and just tired for being on the field so much.

Going to be an interesting first few years.

See my post above about people saying funny things about Leach. There is a conventional wisdom about him that is totally wrong.

They say his defenses are poor because of his offense, because of number of plays and time of possession. The numbers do not support this at all but people just say it over and over again. Not just message board warriors. People that get paid big salaries to talk college football professionally.

He is a maverick and his personality is off-center, so people assume he is very unconventional. He is actually very practical and logical in his offensive philosophy and scheme.

He is only a winner because of his offense and qb whispering. I think this is wrong. Lots of people have those qualities and do not win like he has. Klif Kingsbury got an NFL coaching gig off those qualities despite never matching Leach’s success at the same school despite being handed the foundation and the blueprint by Leach. Rather I think Leach wins because he is an old school disciplinarian that establishes a winning culture.

He is an offensive genius, so people assume the offense must be very complicated and changes with the trends of the time. The opposite is true - the offense features relatively few plays and is simplified advanced concept to the skill level and installation time available in college football. It changes little over time, multiple former players and coaches have commented on this.

It goes on and on. He is basically the Colombo of college football. All the public stuff is a smokescreen that shields the players from distractions while inside his program the focus is on building a disciplined culture designed to enable player development and consistent, efficient execution.

[MedDawg]

This.

Has he ever had a top 3 round defensive player?

I think we?ll be pleasantly surprised about our defense

I agree.

In Leach's 8 years at Washington State, he had 1 defensive 4-star on his roster. State will have 9 4-star players on the defensive roster just this year. State has had excellent to decent defenses under Sherrill/Croom/Mullen/Moorhead and numerous DC's. NOT COUNTING YOU, PETER SIRMON. There seems to be a consistent supply of 4-star and underrated 3-star defensive recruits in MSU's recruiting area.


Last year Washington State's QB, Anthony Gordon, passed for 5,579 yards. Just 92 fewer yards than record-setting LSU QB Joe Burrow--in two fewer games. Gordon passed for 51 more yards per game than Burrow. Anthony Gordon was UNRANKED as a recruit.

Leach's offense with better defenses? That's exciting.

[ShotgunDawg]

I agree.

In Leach's 8 years at Washington State, he had 1 defensive 4-star on his roster. State will have 9 4-star players on the defensive roster just this year. State has had excellent to decent defenses under Sherrill/Croom/Mullen/Moorhead and numerous DC's. NOT COUNTING YOU, PETER SIRMON. There seems to be a consistent supply of 4-star and underrated 3-star defensive recruits in MSU's recruiting area.


Last year Washington State's QB, Anthony Gordon, passed for 5,579 yards. Just 92 fewer yards than record-setting LSU QB Joe Burrow--in two fewer games. Gordon passed for 51 more yards per game than Burrow. Anthony Gordon was UNRANKED as a recruit.

Leach's offense with better defenses? That's exciting.

Last year's defense sucked

[dawgday166]

Last year's defense sucked

Offense too. I attribute almost the entire blame for both to the guy at the very top. S&C sucked and toughness of practices sucked too (practicing indoors cause it's too hot outside ... seriously??)

Pretty sure that won't be the case under Leach.

[QuadrupleOption]

I agree.
In Leach's 8 years at Washington State, he had 1 defensive 4-star on his roster. State will have 9 4-star players on the defensive roster just this year. State has had excellent to decent defenses under Sherrill/Croom/Mullen/Moorhead and numerous DC's. NOT COUNTING YOU, PETER SIRMON. There seems to be a consistent supply of 4-star and underrated 3-star defensive recruits in MSU's recruiting area.


Agreed. I think the best blueprint for a successful run for Leach are:
1) Recruit Mississippi talent for defense. There's plenty of underrated defensive players here that will develop into fine players with NFL potential. Find them, recruit them, develop them.
2) Recruit Mississippi O-linemen. Again, tons of big bodies that can be developed into NFL-caliber players.
3) Grab skill players from states with high levels of offensive football, as well as high-talent players from Mississippi(duh). California, Texas, wherever. Leach's national reputation for throwing the ball and scoring a lot of points should help here. If Mississippi ever adopts these types of offenses (some programs seem to be doing so now) then focus more on home.
4) Avoid pissing off Sociology professors at MSU. Very important, apparently.

[BiscuitEater]

The other thing about his Ds is his O scores so fast the D gets worn down and just tired for being on the field so much.

Never thought I would EVER hear a MSU fan complaining about scoring TOO fast!

I'm old enough to remember 'multiple' years we didn't score 100 points in the entire season!

[Percho]

Wins the coin toss, takes the ball and scores.

L to dc just give me a 3 and out and all will be well. 3 and out.

O scores again in 3 plays.

L to dc just give me a 6 and out and all will be well. 6 and out

O scores again after 7 plays.

L to dc just give me 9 and out or 3 points and all will be well. D gives up 3 points




Get the picture



How Great it is!

[Jack Lambert]

Wash Stats had a top 20 defense just 2 years ago.
Leach will recruit better here than he did at either wash st or TT
He will get players on defense...

Folks keep pointing out his recruiting but they fail to remember where he was trying to recruit to and not put that into perspective. He will be a top 25 recruiter at State. Top 25 class he will make some noise.

[Todd4State]

Folks keep pointing out his recruiting but they fail to remember where he was trying to recruit to and not put that into perspective. He will be a top 25 recruiter at State. Top 25 class he will make some noise.

Leach so far appears to be better than Dan at recruiting. Maybe Dan was worse than I realized and I thought it was pretty bad.

[DownwardDawg]

I think Leach May end up being a perfect fit here.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Last year's defense sucked

They were missing some dudes cause of Chemistry, so.....

[dawgday166]

They were missing some dudes cause of Chemistry, so.....

Sorta forgot about that too when I said it was S&C and toughness. So there's that too.

[dawgday166]

Agreed. I think the best blueprint for a successful run for Leach are:
1) Recruit Mississippi talent for defense. There's plenty of underrated defensive players here that will develop into fine players with NFL potential. Find them, recruit them, develop them.
2) Recruit Mississippi O-linemen. Again, tons of big bodies that can be developed into NFL-caliber players.
3) Grab skill players from states with high levels of offensive football, as well as high-talent players from Mississippi(duh). California, Texas, wherever. Leach's national reputation for throwing the ball and scoring a lot of points should help here. If Mississippi ever adopts these types of offenses (some programs seem to be doing so now) then focus more on home.
4) Avoid pissing off Sociology professors at MSU. Very important, apparently.

2 - MS isn't a hot bed for Oline generally speaking. It does have it's good years tho. But I believe Leach will also go to Midwest if necessary and find those big, corn fed, farm boys who are 260 lb Olinemen or TEs in HS and develop them when necessary. The same way Iowa does it. Hevesy very good coach but didn't like to recruit out of a 4 to 6 hour driving radius of Starkville. Not sure he travels much now to recruit since FL self-recruits better and has a lot of in-state talent.

[TaleofTwoDogs]

Has anybody done a study on how the Hazmat suit will slow down our WRs or affect the spin on the Qb's throw??

[Todd4State]

2 - MS isn't a hot bed for Oline generally speaking. It does have it's good years tho. But I believe Leach will also go to Midwest if necessary and find those big, corn fed, farm boys who are 260 lb Olinemen or TEs in HS and develop them when necessary. The same way Iowa does it. Hevesy very good coach but didn't like to recruit out of a 4 to 6 hour driving radius of Starkville. Not sure he travels much now to recruit since FL self-recruits better and has a lot of in-state talent.

I don't think we have to go to the Midwest to find o-line talent in this state. It's there. Jenkins, Gabe Jackson, Charles Cross, Saahdiq Charles at LSU, Martinas Rankin, Derek Sherrod, among others.

Our biggest obstacle to getting o-line talent is now in Florida and has been there for two and a half years.

[dawgday166]

I don't think we have to go to the Midwest to find o-line talent in this state. It's there. Jenkins, Gabe Jackson, Charles Cross, Saahdiq Charles at LSU, Martinas Rankin, Derek Sherrod, among others.

Our biggest obstacle to getting o-line talent is now in Florida and has been there for two and a half years.

Good point. But you need 5 in every recruiting class generally speaking don't you? Gotta battle Bama, LSU, AU and OM for the 4 and 5*. Maybe we can get more of those going forward but my point is the number of under the radar Oline recruits in Mississippi isn't usually that high I don't think. But we can do alright for those mostly in MS probably. A little tough consistently finding top notch LTs IMO tho. Charles Cross types don't come around very often in MS.

[Todd4State]

Good point. But you need 5 in every recruiting class generally speaking don't you? Gotta battle Bama, LSU, AU and OM for the 4 and 5*. Maybe we can get more of those going forward but my point is the number of under the radar Oline recruits in Mississippi isn't usually that high I don't think. But we can do alright for those mostly in MS probably. A little tough consistently finding top notch LTs IMO tho. Charles Cross types don't come around very often in MS.

I agree about needing five in a class and about the five stars. However most of the offensive linemen here aren't 4-5 stars including some I mentioned. Tyre Phillips will probably be next.

[dawgday166]

I agree about needing five in a class and about the five stars. However most of the offensive linemen here aren't 4-5 stars including some I mentioned. Tyre Phillips will probably be next.

Agree but my main point was to handle the speed of LBs from Bama, LSU, and possible FL or GA or just a KY when they got a top-notch one like Allen, you need two top end bookends. Those are kinda hard to find and compete for in just MS. If we can get two, that's good. My other main point is I don't think Leach will restrict his Oline recruiting footprint quite as much as Dan/Hev did.

[BeardoMSU]

As anybody done a study on how the Hazmat suit will slow down our WRs or affect the spin on the Qb's throw??

The USMC is ahead of the game**


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k6-6geCJDc

Edit: just realized the dialogue is dubbed with Russky, lol. Enjoy!

[btw, If you've never seen Jarhead, in this scene, one of the guys calls another guy a "smushy faced retard" and they fight. I always thought that was funny.]

[R2Dawg]

Never thought I would EVER hear a MSU fan complaining about scoring TOO fast!

I'm old enough to remember 'multiple' years we didn't score 100 points in the entire season!

Reading comprehension tip. Read the thread of replies before coming to a conclusion - context. I never complained about scoring too fast. I have no problem with that. I also think our D is going to be good with CML as well. Comment was in context of having a bad D. Follow the thread and context of conversation.

[Todd4State]

Agree but my main point was to handle the speed of LBs from Bama, LSU, and possible FL or GA or just a KY when they got a top-notch one like Allen, you need two top end bookends. Those are kinda hard to find and compete for in just MS. If we can get two, that's good. My other main point is I don't think Leach will restrict his Oline recruiting footprint quite as much as Dan/Hev did.

The thing about offensive linemen is they almost always outside of a few exceptions need time to develop. For the most part unless it's an obvious freak who also happens to have decent technique I think the biggest thing is to recruit frame/measurables, athleticism, and meanness. Redshirt them. Let them develop over their freshman and sophomore year slowly working them in and then start them as juniors and seniors. You need one recruit out of the five that has good leadership qualities that can potentially be a center too.

I think Hevesy had several issues.

The biggest being he didn't like recruiting and was lazy at it. Didn't want to have to compete with other schools for recruits. Gave up too easily. I think he looked down on MSU.

The second is I think he was looking for those freaks that I was talking about and was overly critical on most recruits and then by the end of the cycle we would only have maybe one or two linemen committed and we would end up trying to find someone late in the process. I actually think he didn't recruit Mississippi enough- or well enough.

[TaleofTwoDogs]

The USMC is ahead of the game**


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k6-6geCJDc

Edit: just realized the dialogue is dubbed with Russky, lol. Enjoy!

[btw, If you've never seen Jarhead, in this scene, one of the guys calls another guy a "smushy faced retard" and they fight. I always thought that was funny.]

Damn, that's a cool video. We need to find out if the QB has any eligibility left, nice spin and he already knows how to throw with a mask.

[TUSK]

Damn, that's a cool video. We need to find out if the QB has any eligibility left, nice spin and he already knows how to throw with a mask.

I'm not convinced that his arm strength is enough to overcome his lack of gyrotational, influx core explosion with inline balance... But I'll defer to the experts.