The Covid-19 Info thread (keep politics out please)

[hacker]

The health committee chair in NYC says that ~250 people are dying in their homes every day that aren't being counted towards the covid death toll yet. The average before all of this was 25 per day.

In addition to the hundreds that are dying in hospitals every day.

It's just completely ignorant of the facts to think the total number of people dying is going to be down.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVF1H79UcAAqHT1?format=jpg&name=medium

This is a graph that shows the spike in deaths in Italy and Spain compared to previous years. I haven't seen anything like this for NYC yet, but it's going to look similar.

[deadheaddawg]

Yeah it would be hard to argue that NYC isn't under reporting. They obviously are.

[turkish]

I hate to see politics get so driven into this.
LMAO. There are no words.

I’m going to take the high road and not tell you how I really feel. If Hacker has said this, he’d kinda have a leg to stand on — not you.

[deadheaddawg]

LMAO. There are no words.

I’m going to take the high road and not tell you how I really feel. If Hacker has said this, he’d kinda have a leg to stand on — not you.

I meant that point in particular about the underreporting and overreporting. I didn't mean the overall issue of COVID 19. It is impossible not to bring Politics into the whole picture of COVID 19, because government response impacts all of it...

….but the particular issue of under and overreporting is going to be a political issue and I hate to see it, because both are right. The numbers are not accurate and it is because some are not being counted that should and some are being counted that shouldn't. The issues of total deaths not being accurate isn't based on politics like a lot of the other issues. It just depends on where the death occurs and how they are handling it there

But if you want to bring politics into it and pick a side, it is most likely that the total numbers are being under-reported, not over-reported. In particular because NYC is most definitely under-reporting and that is where the bulk of deaths have occurred

And you dont have to take the high road. I honest to god dont care what you might think of me.

[turkish]

Spin it all you want. If you had any credibility before, it’s gone. You’re a troll. Shame on me for reading any of your posts.

ETA


But if you want to bring politics into it and pick a side, it is most likely that the total numbers are being under-reported, not over-reported. In particular because NYC is most definitely under-reporting and that is where the bulk of deaths have occurred
Tell us again how bad you hate it.

[BeardoMSU]

Yeah it would be hard to argue that NYC isn't under reporting. They obviously are.

What would be the benefit of doing that?

[deadheaddawg]

What would be the benefit of doing that?

I dont think there is a benefit, I just think it is what it is. Like Hacker said, there daily deaths at home have sky rocketed since this. That isn't a coincidence.


Scores of ‘probable’ coronavirus deaths not counted in NYC tally
https://nypost.com/2020/04/07/scores-of-probable-coronavirus-deaths-are-not-being-counted-by-the-city/

Dozens — if not hundreds — of coronavirus deaths in New York City will not be included in the Big Apple’s grim tally, because victims died at home without being tested, The Post has learned.

Luciano Todman — a 28-year-old with no underlying symptoms — died early on March 29 in his Bronx apartment after days of diarrhea, vomiting, difficulty breathing, his mother told first responders, according to police sources.

In Flushing, 80-year-old Ho Louie was sent home from the hospital, where his doctor said it would be safer, after four days fighting coronavirus-like symptoms. He died on April 1 just before 11 a.m., sources said.

Another Queens man was found unresponsive in his apartment on April 3, according to sources. The 50-year-old Thokmey Thokmey had tried a few days earlier to get tested but was turned away at the hospital after it ran out of tests.

Todman, Thokmey and Louie are among the 80 death investigations involving people who showed signs of the pandemic COVID-19 between March 22 and Tuesday, according to more than 100 cases reviewed by The Post.

None of those cases, though, were included in the total count of New Yorkers claimed by coronavirus because they weren’t tested before dying.

And those are number only come from calls cops responded to.

At the same time, city paramedics were answering hundreds of more calls for cardiac arrest that include COVID-19 symptoms — with the death count worse than “wartime.”

“Out of the 12 [cardiac cases], I did on Sunday 10 had COVID symptoms. Flu-like symptoms, cough, etc. Nobody made it back. That’s going on all over the city,” said Anthony Almojera, vice president of FDNY, EMS union local 3621.

“There’s gotta be 200 a day… obviously are not all COVID, but they aren’t being tested,” he said.

The FDNY confirmed that paramedics are seeing more than 300 calls for cardiac arrest with “well over” 200 people dying each day. Typically paramedics would deal with around two dozen deaths on around 54 to 74 cardiac arrest calls.


On Sunday alone, EMS responded to 322 calls — but only 81 survived.

A total 2,192 people died during similar calls between March 20 and April 5 — compared to 453 during the same time last year.

“Obviously we deal with death but not on this level,” Almojera said. “It’s crazy.”

New York City’s death toll — which surged past 3,000 on Tuesday — only includes the number of confirmed cases. The city does not test people for the disease after they’ve died — even if they end up in the Medical Examiner’s Office after fighting coronavirus-like symptoms.

The OCME has reported these deaths to the Health Department as “probable” but it was unknown how many of these cases were, and the city wouldn’t say whether bodies were being tested when The Post asked two weeks ago. The OCME , it could severely affect the next person to contract the virus.

“

[Homedawg]

I will be interested to know how this years death total will compare to all other years

Suicide gonna be way up.... not making a joke

[Homedawg]

Yeah it would be hard to argue that NYC isn't under reporting. They obviously are.

Proof that New York is as communist as China? Great, more reason not to live there. This entire thread has turn into a shit show.

[deadheaddawg]

Proof that New York is as communist as China? Great, more reason not to live there. This entire thread has turn into a shit show.

No. Its proof that the healthcare system is not set up to deal with such an increase of daily deaths and do the proper analysis of the death.

[msstate7]

So if you're saying there's 1000s of undocumented NYC deaths due to corona, you have to concede there's what 10000s of undocumented cases, right?

[deadheaddawg]

So if you're saying there's 1000s of undocumented NYC deaths due to corona, you have to concede there's what 10000s of undocumented cases, right?

of course.

[msstate7]

of course.

It's obvious, but I was directing at hacker mainly. He's sorta been against my theory that the documented cases are way off

[deadheaddawg]

It's obvious, but I was directing at hacker mainly. He's sorta been against my theory that the documented cases are way off

I think the documented cases are probably a lot higher. I dont by the idea that a bunch of people had this in Dec and just thought it was a cold. We had about 2,000 die from COVID yesterday. We will probably have 2,000 more today. If it had been here since December we would have already seen a large number of deaths.

But I think the current documented cases are probably off by a large amount.

[hacker]

What would be the benefit of doing that?

They're dying at home (or in ambulance, or before testing at hospital, etc) and just haven't been tested. Tests are precious.

https://i.imgur.com/g2wrtBU.png

[hacker]

It's obvious, but I was directing at hacker mainly. He's sorta been against my theory that the documented cases are way off

I don't think I ever said they weren't off. I do think they're off, but not like, "we're close to herd immunity" level type of off. If I had to guess, I'd say like 5x our current cases. That'd put us around 2 million cases. 325 million population left without immunity.

[Jack Lambert]

You guys my age who learn COBOL in the 80's the Government needs your help. No kidding!

[RocketDawg]

You guys my age who learn COBOL in the 80's the Government needs your help. No kidding!

How about us FORTRAN guys? :)

[dantheman4248]

So you analyzing health data is "working in healthcare", but someone like a janitor or maintenance tech who actually works in a hospital is not considered "working in healthcare"?

I can guarantee you that those housekeepers cleaning rooms are on the "front lines". They may not be as intimately related as respiratory therapists, nurses, MDs, etc. but they are a lot damn closer to the action than you are....

I never said he did not work in healthcare. That's putting words in my mouth. I said he likely doesn't do anything healthcare related. IE, work closely with patients / data to where he would be able to see what's going on. He can be closer in physical proximity while being further from understanding what's happening.

I consider the front lines to be doctors / nurses / people of that ilk. They are up close and personal AND they have access to the data. That's my criteria for the front lines. But being close to the action does not mean understanding the action.

If jimbob lived right next to the hospital and worked an accounting job remotely would you consider him closer to the action than joedan who quarantined out in the sticks with his internet access helping view patient data and give input based on what was recorded. I mean jimbob is right next to it every day. Surely he's closer than joedan right?

Matt showed a clear lack of understanding of the seriousness of the issue and joined the countless others in this thread that have been proven wrong time and again. If he's privy to patient data then he would surely have had a different opinion. If he's seriously an RN then his coworkers would be sickened to hear him calling this a media craze.

[RocketDawg]

Just watching the press conference - looks like Dr Fauci and some of the reporters have had recent haircuts. How'd they manage that?

[deadheaddawg]

Just watching the press conference - looks like Dr Fauci and some of the reporters have had recent haircuts. How'd they manage that?

Scissors probably. With an electric razor to clean up the edges

[hacker]

Just watching the press conference - looks like Dr Fauci and some of the reporters have had recent haircuts. How'd they manage that?

Asking the real questions. I'm starting to look homeless.

[dantheman4248]

We shouldn't disapprove bc there's an entire committee doing it, not 1 human as you've suggested.

Perhaps the president doesn't want someone leading that committee that staged false claims that led to a phony impeachment scam that took the attention away from covid19. Dictatorship LMFAO

Actually you're thinking of the Atkinson guy he fired last friday. Fine is a totally different person he removed from this group. Man has been busy removing people in his way, so I excuse you for getting the two messed up. Removing the chosen leader of this group is effectively cutting the group's decision making off at the head and saying they have to bend to him.

And the impeachment did not distract from COVID. There was a month after the end of inaction by Trump. That's ludicrous to suggest the aftermath of that distracted him that long when he was calling it the liberal's new hoax at campaign rallies a month later. She clearly had enough time to investigate to reach that dumb conclusion.

[dantheman4248]

It could be that the OP who initiated this thread (not you) requested that politics be left out of this thread and on this particular board politics is not allowed. Maybe you have a better synopsis?

Scoob edited that in, not the OP. Then has seemingly let this run its course and culled us out from arguing politics in other threads. Treating this one as a lost cause.

My synopsis would be he initially wanted to get rid of politics entirely but realized that this discussion would be difficult to moderate politics out as it is such a highly politicized issue in its nature. Better to let one thread run amok than have to cut down several different threads of arguing. That way the people who are gonna ignore the rule can do so in their "safe space" and people who want to ignore it can do so easily. Add on top of this that I believe moderating is the least of his concerns right now, it's the decision that makes everyone's life the easiest.

[Liverpooldawg]

This thread needs to be canned.

[dawgday166]

I dont think there is a benefit, I just think it is what it is. Like Hacker said, there daily deaths at home have sky rocketed since this. That isn't a coincidence.


Scores of ?probable? coronavirus deaths not counted in NYC tally
https://nypost.com/2020/04/07/scores-of-probable-coronavirus-deaths-are-not-being-counted-by-the-city/

Dozens ? if not hundreds ? of coronavirus deaths in New York City will not be included in the Big Apple?s grim tally, because victims died at home without being tested, The Post has learned.

Luciano Todman ? a 28-year-old with no underlying symptoms ? died early on March 29 in his Bronx apartment after days of diarrhea, vomiting, difficulty breathing, his mother told first responders, according to police sources.

In Flushing, 80-year-old Ho Louie was sent home from the hospital, where his doctor said it would be safer, after four days fighting coronavirus-like symptoms. He died on April 1 just before 11 a.m., sources said.

Another Queens man was found unresponsive in his apartment on April 3, according to sources. The 50-year-old Thokmey Thokmey had tried a few days earlier to get tested but was turned away at the hospital after it ran out of tests.

Todman, Thokmey and Louie are among the 80 death investigations involving people who showed signs of the pandemic COVID-19 between March 22 and Tuesday, according to more than 100 cases reviewed by The Post.

None of those cases, though, were included in the total count of New Yorkers claimed by coronavirus because they weren?t tested before dying.

And those are number only come from calls cops responded to.

At the same time, city paramedics were answering hundreds of more calls for cardiac arrest that include COVID-19 symptoms ? with the death count worse than ?wartime.?

?Out of the 12 [cardiac cases], I did on Sunday 10 had COVID symptoms. Flu-like symptoms, cough, etc. Nobody made it back. That?s going on all over the city,? said Anthony Almojera, vice president of FDNY, EMS union local 3621.

?There?s gotta be 200 a day? obviously are not all COVID, but they aren?t being tested,? he said.

The FDNY confirmed that paramedics are seeing more than 300 calls for cardiac arrest with ?well over? 200 people dying each day. Typically paramedics would deal with around two dozen deaths on around 54 to 74 cardiac arrest calls.


On Sunday alone, EMS responded to 322 calls ? but only 81 survived.

A total 2,192 people died during similar calls between March 20 and April 5 ? compared to 453 during the same time last year.

?Obviously we deal with death but not on this level,? Almojera said. ?It?s crazy.?

New York City?s death toll ? which surged past 3,000 on Tuesday ? only includes the number of confirmed cases. The city does not test people for the disease after they?ve died ? even if they end up in the Medical Examiner?s Office after fighting coronavirus-like symptoms.

The OCME has reported these deaths to the Health Department as ?probable? but it was unknown how many of these cases were, and the city wouldn?t say whether bodies were being tested when The Post asked two weeks ago. The OCME , it could severely affect the next person to contract the virus.

?

And on the flip side .. they're reporting anyone that dies with covid in a hospital as dying from it, when some are within a year to 5 years of dying anyway due to underlying conditions.

[dawgday166]

I never said he did not work in healthcare. That's putting words in my mouth. I said he likely doesn't do anything healthcare related. IE, work closely with patients / data to where he would be able to see what's going on. He can be closer in physical proximity while being further from understanding what's happening.

I consider the front lines to be doctors / nurses / people of that ilk. They are up close and personal AND they have access to the data. That's my criteria for the front lines. But being close to the action does not mean understanding the action.

If jimbob lived right next to the hospital and worked an accounting job remotely would you consider him closer to the action than joedan who quarantined out in the sticks with his internet access helping view patient data and give input based on what was recorded. I mean jimbob is right next to it every day. Surely he's closer than joedan right?

Matt showed a clear lack of understanding of the seriousness of the issue and joined the countless others in this thread that have been proven wrong time and again. If he's privy to patient data then he would surely have had a different opinion. If he's seriously an RN then his coworkers would be sickened to hear him calling this a media craze.

If you understand "the action" like you understand probability and statistics then we in trouble ****

[Gutter Cobreh]

Speaking as someone who DOES work in healthcare... the guy Beardo responded to definitely doesn't actually do anything healthcare related. He probably works as a janitor/maintenance in a hospital and calls that healthcare. No way he's "on the front lines". (For the record, I'm not either.)


I never said he did not work in healthcare. That's putting words in my mouth. I said he likely doesn't do anything healthcare related. IE, work closely with patients / data to where he would be able to see what's going on. He can be closer in physical proximity while being further from understanding what's happening.

I consider the front lines to be doctors / nurses / people of that ilk. They are up close and personal AND they have access to the data. That's my criteria for the front lines. But being close to the action does not mean understanding the action.

If jimbob lived right next to the hospital and worked an accounting job remotely would you consider him closer to the action than joedan who quarantined out in the sticks with his internet access helping view patient data and give input based on what was recorded. I mean jimbob is right next to it every day. Surely he's closer than joedan right?

Matt showed a clear lack of understanding of the seriousness of the issue and joined the countless others in this thread that have been proven wrong time and again. If he's privy to patient data then he would surely have had a different opinion. If he's seriously an RN then his coworkers would be sickened to hear him calling this a media craze.

I'll link what you posted again for you to re-read. If you think that "healthcare" is only the clinicians, you literally have no idea how the industry works. I won't get into the details, but if you don't think that maintenance, housekeeping, or any other support service in a hospital doesn't play a role in patient outcomes - then you're an idiot.

[Gutter Cobreh]

Dantheman- quick question for you since you know it all about healthcare.

COVID patients need to be placed in negative pressure room. Who in the hospital ensures that patient rooms have the correct pressure? To help you - it isn't a nurse, physician, or data analyst. I'll wait to hear your answer now that I've ruled out some options for you...and by your answer please let me know if that role is "healthcare related" or "someone on the front lines"....

[turkish]

But what about the statisticians?!?

[hacker]

And on the flip side .. they're reporting anyone that dies with covid in a hospital as dying from it, when some are within a year to 5 years of dying anyway due to underlying conditions.

Yes, this is how deaths are reported. Nothing special about covid. If that same person with underlying conditions got the flu and died from it, that's a flu death. Or if that person got in a car wreck and died, that's an auto accident death. There is no flip side.

You ever hear of people who were supposed to die at a young age but ended up living a long, fruitful life? You can't just say because somebody is "supposed" to die within a couple years that they don't count. IMO anyway.

[Homedawg]

Yes, this is how deaths are reported. Nothing special about covid. If that same person with underlying conditions got the flu and died from it, that's a flu death. Or if that person got in a car wreck and died, that's an auto accident death. There is no flip side.

You ever hear of people who were supposed to die at a young age but ended up living a long, fruitful life? You can't just say because somebody is "supposed" to die within a couple years that they don't count. IMO anyway.

So if someone has stage four cancer and has less than a month to live and has covid and it's counted as a covid case, THats how it works?? I get it, more people have died from it than reported. And more have contracted it, most of which we wil never know. And I don't think it's close.

[deadheaddawg]

And on the flip side .. they're reporting anyone that dies with covid in a hospital as dying from it, when some are within a year to 5 years of dying anyway due to underlying conditions.
That's not really the flip side. You are saying that when covid speeds up the dying process.....by up to 5 years.....it shouldn't be attributed to covid?

That doesn't make much sense tbh. Thats one reason why this is such a dangerous illness. We knew that this was s very lethal for people with pre-existing conditions.

But if it knocks 1-5 years off your life, then absolutely it should be included.

If someone with COVID gets shot in the head, it should not count. But If someone with a weak heart or a heart condition is in the hospital because they are sick enough with COVID to be hospitalized and they die...that should count.

[Commercecomet24]

So if someone has stage four cancer and has less than a month to live and has covid and it's counted as a covid case, THats how it works?? I get it, more people have died from it than reported. And more have contracted it, most of which we wil never know. And I don't think it's close.

Exactly!

[dantheman4248]

Dantheman- quick question for you since you know it all about healthcare.

COVID patients need to be placed in negative pressure room. Who in the hospital ensures that patient rooms have the correct pressure? To help you - it isn't a nurse, physician, or data analyst. I'll wait to hear your answer now that I've ruled out some options for you...and by your answer please let me know if that role is "healthcare related" or "someone on the front lines"....

He can know WHAT he's doing and not understand WHY he's doing it. Again that's why I said I consider those working closely with the patients AND privy to the data as the front lines.

As for thinking i said healthcare is only the clinicians, you are the one who needs to reread. I said people of that ilk are the frontline. I consider myself healthcare even though I'm not in the hospital.

You're missing the point that I'm making. Matt clearly showed 0 knowledge of actual healthcare data. Ergo he likely works a job in a hospital where he has no access to data. If you want to call that front lines because he's physically in the hospital then fine, we have different definitions. Again I believe being there AND having access to the data is the front lines. I haven't met a single person other than him who claimed to have access to the data whether front lines or not that held the same opinion.

[turkish]

So, you have no idea then?

[chef dixon]

So if someone has stage four cancer and has less than a month to live and has covid and it's counted as a covid case, THats how it works?? I get it, more people have died from it than reported. And more have contracted it, most of which we wil never know. And I don't think it's close.

That would be an extreme minority, likely statistically negligent, number of patients. The death numbers we have are going to be pretty close to accurate and that's with give or take.

[hacker]

So if someone has stage four cancer and has less than a month to live and has covid and it's counted as a covid case, THats how it works?? I get it, more people have died from it than reported. And more have contracted it, most of which we wil never know. And I don't think it's close.

Yes. Like I said earlier, if they got in an auto accident on the way to the cancer clinic, it'd be an auto fatality. That is how deaths are reported. The acute cause of death.

Just for posterity, for anyone thinking the death toll is inflated:

Dr. Birx on the subject:


?We have heard both sides,? Dr. Birx said. ?We have made it clear about the comorbidities. Most of the people -- and we talked about the Italy data -- the majority of Italians who succumbed to this had three or more comorbidities. This has been known from the beginning. Those individuals will have an underlying condition, but that underlying condition did not cause their acute death when related to a COVID infection. In fact, it is the opposite. Having an underlying condition and getting this virus is particularly damaging to those individuals.?


Dr. Fauci:


Infectious disease expert Anthony Fauci on Wednesday called conspiracy theories suggesting the novel coronavirus death toll is inflated because sick people are dying with the virus ? not because of it ? "nothing but distractions."

What they're saying: Fauci said at the White House press briefing, "You will always have conspiracy theories when you have very challenging public health crises. They are nothing but distractions."


Trump:

President Donald Trump said that he believes the death counts published by state health organizations, Johns Hopkins University and the CDC are accurate.

?I think they are pretty accurate,? Trump said. ?Somebody dies. I think the states have been pretty accurate. That's a big deal, what you just said the death counts, I think they are very accurate.?

[hacker]

Let's talk about some good news. Our curve of new cases definitely appears to be flattening and at the same time our % of positive tests is dropping. We've had around 9 days in a row between 25K-35K new cases. Hospitalizations are falling in NYC. Hospital discharges are up in NYC. NYC is not going to run out of ventilators or hospital beds unless something drastically changes. Mississippi's new cases have been flat for a while as well.

This is happening because of social distancing. It's working.

We're still going to have to ride out the plateau and the drop of the curve in our quarantines. Probably 1-2 more months. Deaths will continue to rise for another week or two then start dropping. Then we'll need a plan for preventing future outbreaks. When school and college and everything starts back up in the fall, if we're not careful, this will happen again.

[Jack Lambert]

Yes. Like I said earlier, if they got in an auto accident on the way to the cancer clinic, it'd be an auto fatality. That is how deaths are reported. The acute cause of death.

Just for posterity, for anyone thinking the death toll is inflated:

Dr. Birx on the subject:




Dr. Fauci:




Trump:

Everyone has their own perspective and what they believe. I respect that. But I personally think they are trying to inflate the numbers. Not for political reason. They shut our entire economy down base on models that were way off and those models took into account social distancing. Everything they screamed about did not come true. Not enough ventilators not enough beds or ICU units. They have been so off on every thing. I suspect we are one more drastic lowering of the death rate from President Trump telling them to kiss his ass.

[Commercecomet24]

Everyone has their own perspective and what they believe. I respect that. But I personally think they are trying to inflate the numbers. Not for political reason. They shut our entire economy down base on models that were way off and those models took into account social distancing. Everything they screamed about did not come true. Not enough ventilators not enough beds or ICU units. They have been so off on every thing. I suspect we are one more drastic lowering of the death rate from President Trump telling them to kiss his ass.

This. The apocalyptic numbers being beat into us at the beginning of this were never going to happen and those projections are not even going to be close to accurate when this is all said and done. I sat in the office of one of the nations best infectious disease doctors a month ago and he just shook his head at the extreme numbers that were being projected. A doctor with over 25+ years in the field(not some medical theorist). He told me the numbers would be nowhere close to what was being projected even if we did nothing. The damage to our economy and peoples lives are going to be far greater than the effects of this virus.

[hacker]

Everyone has their own perspective and what they believe. I respect that. But I personally think they are trying to inflate the numbers. Not for political reason. They shut our entire economy down base on models that were way off and those models took into account social distancing. Everything they screamed about did not come true. Not enough ventilators not enough beds or ICU units. They have been so off on every thing. I suspect we are one more drastic lowering of the death rate from President Trump telling them to kiss his ass.

I posted a quote from Trump saying the numbers were accurate. What more do you want?

And why did those things not come true? Here, I'll help:

https://i.insider.com/5e7387ddc485403c7e08f313?width=1300&format=jpeg&auto=webp

https://i.insider.com/5e73829bc485400546025568?width=1300&format=jpeg&auto=webp

https://i.insider.com/5e738682c48540520e686cf2?width=1300&format=jpeg&auto=webp

https://www.fox8live.com/resizer/qcmSC5Y0s34moU837-ZpTA8tjEM=/1200x600/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-raycom.s3.amazonaws.com/public/RE5OLEJYG5G4DCSYEJOF4HIN3U.jpg

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/nola.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/5f/55f56245-5ef2-5f6e-b64b-9a6512de8d82/5e75638d3f12b.image.jpg?resize=1700%2C1156

https://patch.com/img/cdn20/users/22925010/20200322/113908/styles/raw/public/processed_images/90370106_10159732698422818_1531608028065824768_o.j pg?width=725

https://patch.com/img/cdn20/users/22925010/20200322/114213/styles/raw/public/processed_images/91125277_10159732697392818_3034506647889248256_o.j pg?width=725

[Gutter Cobreh]

He can know WHAT he's doing and not understand WHY he's doing it. Again that's why I said I consider those working closely with the patients AND privy to the data as the front lines.

As for thinking i said healthcare is only the clinicians, you are the one who needs to reread. I said people of that ilk are the frontline. I consider myself healthcare even though I'm not in the hospital.

You're missing the point that I'm making. Matt clearly showed 0 knowledge of actual healthcare data. Ergo he likely works a job in a hospital where he has no access to data. If you want to call that front lines because he's physically in the hospital then fine, we have different definitions. Again I believe being there AND having access to the data is the front lines. I haven't met a single person other than him who claimed to have access to the data whether front lines or not that held the same opinion.

A pathogen doesn't care about who knows data, as it doesn't discriminate.

Let me simplify this for you yet again - if you're currently working in a position that is deemed "essential" and your work exposes you to the chance of contracting the virus - you're on the front lines. That could be in a hospital, grocery store, delivering supplies, etc. Please stop trying to twist what you initially said by adding additional criteria to make it seem like what you do is any more important than someone else.

[Coldsleeve Jr.]

Actually you're thinking of the Atkinson guy he fired last friday. Fine is a totally different person he removed from this group. Man has been busy removing people in his way, so I excuse you for getting the two messed up. Removing the chosen leader of this group is effectively cutting the group's decision making off at the head and saying they have to bend to him.

And the impeachment did not distract from COVID. There was a month after the end of inaction by Trump. That's ludicrous to suggest the aftermath of that distracted him that long when he was calling it the liberal's new hoax at campaign rallies a month later. She clearly had enough time to investigate to reach that dumb conclusion.

No. I'm not. I'm referring to Fine, who was replaced by Sean O'Donnel, on the Pandemic Response Accountability Committee.

You really should change whatever channel you're watching...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-removes-inspector-general-who-was-to-oversee-2-trillion-stimulus-spending/2020/04/07/2f0c6cb8-78ea-11ea-9bee-c5bf9d2e3288_story.html%3foutputType=amp

[Jack Lambert]

I posted a quote from Trump saying the numbers were accurate. What more do you want?

And why did those things not come true? Here, I'll help:

https://i.insider.com/5e7387ddc485403c7e08f313?width=1300&format=jpeg&auto=webp

https://i.insider.com/5e73829bc485400546025568?width=1300&format=jpeg&auto=webp

https://i.insider.com/5e738682c48540520e686cf2?width=1300&format=jpeg&auto=webp

https://www.fox8live.com/resizer/qcmSC5Y0s34moU837-ZpTA8tjEM=/1200x600/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-raycom.s3.amazonaws.com/public/RE5OLEJYG5G4DCSYEJOF4HIN3U.jpg

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/nola.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/5f/55f56245-5ef2-5f6e-b64b-9a6512de8d82/5e75638d3f12b.image.jpg?resize=1700%2C1156

https://patch.com/img/cdn20/users/22925010/20200322/113908/styles/raw/public/processed_images/90370106_10159732698422818_1531608028065824768_o.j pg?width=725

https://patch.com/img/cdn20/users/22925010/20200322/114213/styles/raw/public/processed_images/91125277_10159732697392818_3034506647889248256_o.j pg?width=725

I'm still going to believe what I want to believe. So far 16 million plus americans have lost jobs.

[dantheman4248]

No. I'm not. I'm referring to Fine, who was replaced by Sean O'Donnel, on the Pandemic Response Accountability Committee.

You really should change whatever channel you're watching...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-removes-inspector-general-who-was-to-oversee-2-trillion-stimulus-spending/2020/04/07/2f0c6cb8-78ea-11ea-9bee-c5bf9d2e3288_story.html%3foutputType=amp

It's. In. The. Article. You. Linked.

"On Friday, the president notified Congress that he was removing Michael Atkinson as the inspector general of the intelligence community — a decision that Trump acknowledged was in response to Atkinson’s having alerted lawmakers to the existence of a whistleblower complaint about the president’s dealings with Ukraine. The matter ultimately led to Trump’s impeachment in the House before his acquittal in the Senate."

Coldsleeve Jr: "Perhaps the president doesn't want someone leading that committee that staged false claims that led to a phony impeachment scam that took the attention away from covid19."

I'm tuned into the same channel you are tuned into bud. And you still can't get it right. Holy moly.

[dantheman4248]

A pathogen doesn't care about who knows data, as it doesn't discriminate.

Let me simplify this for you yet again - if you're currently working in a position that is deemed "essential" and your work exposes you to the chance of contracting the virus - you're on the front lines. That could be in a hospital, grocery store, delivering supplies, etc. Please stop trying to twist what you initially said by adding additional criteria to make it seem like what you do is any more important than someone else.

No, you're twisting what I said there. I've never said my job is "more important". I've said my job gives me more access. I am more informed. That does not mean that I'm "more important".

[Coldsleeve Jr.]

It's. In. The. Article. You. Linked.

"On Friday, the president notified Congress that he was removing Michael Atkinson as the inspector general of the intelligence community — a decision that Trump acknowledged was in response to Atkinson’s having alerted lawmakers to the existence of a whistleblower complaint about the president’s dealings with Ukraine. The matter ultimately led to Trump’s impeachment in the House before his acquittal in the Senate."

Coldsleeve Jr: "Perhaps the president doesn't want someone leading that committee that staged false claims that led to a phony impeachment scam that took the attention away from covid19."

I'm tuned into the same channel you are tuned into bud. And you still can't get it right. Holy moly.

I'm embarrassed for you...

"Glenn Fine, who had been the acting Pentagon inspector general, was informed Monday that he was being replaced at the Defense Department by Sean W. O’Donnell, currently the inspector general at the Environmental Protection Agency. O’Donnell will simultaneously be inspector general at the EPA and acting IG at the Pentagon until a permanent replacement is confirmed for the Defense Department."

"Late last month, Fine was selected by the head of a council of inspectors general to lead the Pandemic Response Accountability Committee, created by the March 27 law."

[Johnson85]

Yes, this is how deaths are reported. Nothing special about covid. If that same person with underlying conditions got the flu and died from it, that's a flu death. Or if that person got in a car wreck and died, that's an auto accident death. There is no flip side.

You ever hear of people who were supposed to die at a young age but ended up living a long, fruitful life? You can't just say because somebody is "supposed" to die within a couple years that they don't count. IMO anyway.

This is inconsistent with what read. Can't remember the source, but it definitely wasn't something like CDC literature or anything, but I read that if somebody with say cancer or aids gets the flu and/or pneumonia and dies because of their weakened immune system, that would would be recorded as something like "complications related to cancer" or "complications related to aids". No clue if that's right or not.

[msstate7]

This is inconsistent with what read. Can't remember the source, but it definitely wasn't something like CDC literature or anything, but I read that if somebody with say cancer or aids gets the flu and/or pneumonia and dies because of their weakened immune system, that would would be recorded as something like "complications related to cancer" or "complications related to aids". No clue if that's right or not.

I'd think this was correct. Take AIDS, it doesn't kill you, does it? I think it just weakens your immune system to the point where something else does. The death would still be AIDS though, right?

[dantheman4248]

I'm embarrassed for you...

"Glenn Fine, who had been the acting Pentagon inspector general, was informed Monday that he was being replaced at the Defense Department by Sean W. O’Donnell, currently the inspector general at the Environmental Protection Agency. O’Donnell will simultaneously be inspector general at the EPA and acting IG at the Pentagon until a permanent replacement is confirmed for the Defense Department."

"Late last month, Fine was selected by the head of a council of inspectors general to lead the Pandemic Response Accountability Committee, created by the March 27 law."

So where is the part that says Fine is the one that "staged false claims that led to a phony impeachment scam".

I don't see that in what you typed. Like I said that person you're thinking of is Atkinson that did that. There is 0 reason to remove Trump and "cleaning out leftovers from Obama admin" is such a joke when the guy was in the role 2000-2011 and 2015-2020. It's been over 3 years if he was worried about cleaning out leftovers.

But regardless you attributed to Fine the impeachment thing. Atkinson is the impeachment thing. I don't know how else to explain this to you.

[hacker]

This is inconsistent with what read. Can't remember the source, but it definitely wasn't something like CDC literature or anything, but I read that if somebody with say cancer or aids gets the flu and/or pneumonia and dies because of their weakened immune system, that would would be recorded as something like "complications related to cancer" or "complications related to aids". No clue if that's right or not.


I'd think this was correct. Take AIDS, it doesn't kill you, does it? I think it just weakens your immune system to the point where something else does. The death would still be AIDS though, right?

Death certificates show acute cause and underlying causes.

Pretty sure in the case of AIDS it'd be something like:

acute cause: pneumonia
underlying condition: AIDS

covid would be something like:
acute cause: pneumonia
underlying condition: COVID

covid + cancer would be something like:
acute cause: pneumonia
underlying condition: COVID
underlying condition: cancer

https://i.imgur.com/A2dqSa1.png

I could be totally wrong though, I don't know this for a fact

[Dolphus Raymond]

?The Emperor has no clothes.?
Stay well, everyone.

[msstate7]

Death certificates show acute cause and underlying causes.

Pretty sure in the case of AIDS it'd be something like:

acute cause: pneumonia
underlying condition: AIDS

covid would be something like:
acute cause: pneumonia
underlying condition: COVID

covid + cancer would be something like:
acute cause: pneumonia
underlying condition: COVID
underlying condition: cancer

https://i.imgur.com/A2dqSa1.png

I could be totally wrong though, I don't know this for a fact

That makes sense

[Coldsleeve Jr.]

So where is the part that says Fine is the one that "staged false claims that led to a phony impeachment scam".

I don't see that in what you typed. Like I said that person you're thinking of is Atkinson that did that. There is 0 reason to remove Trump and "cleaning out leftovers from Obama admin" is such a joke when the guy was in the role 2000-2011 and 2015-2020. It's been over 3 years if he was worried about cleaning out leftovers.

But regardless you attributed to Fine the impeachment thing. Atkinson is the impeachment thing. I don't know how else to explain this to you.

You're right. Only 1 person on the planet can conduct oversight of stimulus spending. The committee isn't sufficient we MUST have Fine in that position or else risk full blown communist dictatorship under our xenophobic president. The president shouldn't be allowed to make the decisions he was elected to make, and we should have weekly press conferences for the TDS'ers to explain what an IG is and that we have more than one of them.

I guess I'd deflect too if I thought Fine was the lynchpin between honest gov spending and a dictatorship. I understand why you're lashing out. You're embarrassed.

[chef dixon]

Death certificates show acute cause and underlying causes.

Pretty sure in the case of AIDS it'd be something like:

acute cause: pneumonia
underlying condition: AIDS

covid would be something like:
acute cause: pneumonia
underlying condition: COVID

covid + cancer would be something like:
acute cause: pneumonia
underlying condition: COVID
underlying condition: cancer


I could be totally wrong though, I don't know this for a fact

You are correct. Its quite easy to know and report properly. Doctor's are not going to fill that out as COVID unless it was the primary driver. Stage 4 cancer patient's with 1 month to live aren't even going to be given a test for COVID. The whole argument that we aren't counting deaths correctly is a bad one.

[dantheman4248]

You're right. Only 1 person on the planet can conduct oversight of stimulus spending. The committee isn't sufficient we MUST have Fine in that position or else risk full blown communist dictatorship under our xenophobic president. The president shouldn't be allowed to make the decisions he was elected to make, and we should have weekly press conferences for the TDS'ers to explain what an IG is and that we have more than one of them.

I guess I'd deflect too if I thought Fine was the lynchpin between honest gov spending and a dictatorship. I understand why you're lashing out. You're embarrassed.

First off, You literally just deflected that you were wrong about who Fine is and who Atkinson is.

Second off, it's not Fine specifically that matters here. It's the point that the President just removed someone from office that was chosen to independently review him and his distribution of an amount of money more than half of the US's annual budget. He is literally saying, get someone who I approve to review me, so that I can do what I want.

The man attacked checks and balances on distribution of 2 Trillion dollars of taxpayer money. It's all decided by him.

So even if you believe he is wholly pure and innocent here in his distribution of money, he has removed checks and balances, a founding principle of our government. Removing that leads to a dictatorship ruled by one man.

And even if you don't believe that that's what happened here (which you don't, so it's moot to argue that because it's clearly something you don't understand just like who Fine is and who Atkinson is), removing this person delays the distribution in a time of need. Trump is literally singlehandedly slowing down the distribution of that check to Americans. His reason for removing Fine was that he was removing leftovers from Obama admin. Why in the hell is he doing that NOW? I want you to honestly ask yourself if you removed names and politics aside, does this not seem like the WORST time and gives off the WORST look possible?

For the record, I would flip shit at this action regardless of party affiliation. This move screams corruption and that's without attaching Trump's name to it. It's a bad move on so many levels that it may cause the Democrats to waste time impeaching him again.

[hacker]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVFcYjTUUAoLpuV?format=jpg&name=medium

Finally found this data. More people are dying from confirmed covid per week in NYC right now than from ALL CAUSES the previous 4 years.

[shoeless joe]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVFcYjTUUAoLpuV?format=jpg&name=medium

Finally found this data. More people are dying from confirmed covid per week in NYC right now than from ALL CAUSES the previous 4 years.

Not surprised but still wondering about how the 2020 yearly numbers will compare to other yrs. not anticipating one way or another. Just interested

[Extendedcab]

First off, You literally just deflected that you were wrong about who Fine is and who Atkinson is.

Second off, it's not Fine specifically that matters here. It's the point that the President just removed someone from office that was chosen to independently review him and his distribution of an amount of money more than half of the US's annual budget. He is literally saying, get someone who I approve to review me, so that I can do what I want.

The man attacked checks and balances on distribution of 2 Trillion dollars of taxpayer money. It's all decided by him.

So even if you believe he is wholly pure and innocent here in his distribution of money, he has removed checks and balances, a founding principle of our government. Removing that leads to a dictatorship ruled by one man.

And even if you don't believe that that's what happened here (which you don't, so it's moot to argue that because it's clearly something you don't understand just like who Fine is and who Atkinson is), removing this person delays the distribution in a time of need. Trump is literally singlehandedly slowing down the distribution of that check to Americans. His reason for removing Fine was that he was removing leftovers from Obama admin. Why in the hell is he doing that NOW? I want you to honestly ask yourself if you removed names and politics aside, does this not seem like the WORST time and gives off the WORST look possible?

For the record, I would flip shit at this action regardless of party affiliation. This move screams corruption and that's without attaching Trump's name to it. It's a bad move on so many levels that it may cause the Democrats to waste time impeaching him again.

Give it UP dude!! " He served as acting inspector general at the Pentagon since 2016, and will return to his previous position as principal deputy inspector general for the Pentagon. He is still involved!!! Get a grip!

Bitch about Shiff, Pelosi and the rest of the democrats who insisted on $25 million for the Kennedy Center in the relief bill. The Kennedy Center has not been converted to a hospital to treat coronavirus patients, but it's widely reported they are laying off most of their staff. So why exactly did they get any funding at all in this bill? When the virus crisis is over, do you support Congress to rescind the $25 million grant? Do you think there is corruption there?

TDS at its worst!

Get LOST!

[Coldsleeve Jr.]

First off, You literally just deflected that you were wrong about who Fine is and who Atkinson is.

Second off, it's not Fine specifically that matters here. It's the point that the President just removed someone from office that was chosen to independently review him and his distribution of an amount of money more than half of the US's annual budget. He is literally saying, get someone who I approve to review me, so that I can do what I want.

The man attacked checks and balances on distribution of 2 Trillion dollars of taxpayer money. It's all decided by him.

So even if you believe he is wholly pure and innocent here in his distribution of money, he has removed checks and balances, a founding principle of our government. Removing that leads to a dictatorship ruled by one man.

And even if you don't believe that that's what happened here (which you don't, so it's moot to argue that because it's clearly something you don't understand just like who Fine is and who Atkinson is), removing this person delays the distribution in a time of need. Trump is literally singlehandedly slowing down the distribution of that check to Americans. His reason for removing Fine was that he was removing leftovers from Obama admin. Why in the hell is he doing that NOW? I want you to honestly ask yourself if you removed names and politics aside, does this not seem like the WORST time and gives off the WORST look possible?

For the record, I would flip shit at this action regardless of party affiliation. This move screams corruption and that's without attaching Trump's name to it. It's a bad move on so many levels that it may cause the Democrats to waste time impeaching him again.

TDS

[dantheman4248]

TDS

"I was proven wrong and can't admit it so I'm gonna use Ad Hominem attack."

[turkish]

More people are dying from confirmed covid per week in NYC right now than from ALL CAUSES the previous 4 years.
Well, all except for one.

[BrunswickDawg]

Give it UP dude!! " He served as acting inspector general at the Pentagon since 2016, and will return to his previous position as principal deputy inspector general for the Pentagon. He is still involved!!! Get a grip!

Bitch about Shiff, Pelosi and the rest of the democrats who insisted on $25 million for the Kennedy Center in the relief bill. The Kennedy Center has not been converted to a hospital to treat coronavirus patients, but it's widely reported they are laying off most of their staff. So why exactly did they get any funding at all in this bill? When the virus crisis is over, do you support Congress to rescind the $25 million grant? Do you think there is corruption there?

TDS at its worst!

Get LOST!

Not defending Dan - but the Kennedy Center is owned and operated by the US Government. The $25 million replaces their lost revenue for having to cancel all their performances that are revenue generating. In the next round of appropriations, you will probably see similar outlays for the different Smithsonian museums, and possibly funds to replace lost revenues from user fees in National Parks. This is being done for the same reasons we are bailing out all sorts of things right now. It's also why you have seen non-profits be made eligible for all the PPP funding available. Those institutions are all important to this country and provide jobs and positive economic impacts.

[hacker]

Well, all except for one.

Not picking up what you're putting down

[Liverpooldawg]

Not defending Dan - but the Kennedy Center is owned and operated by the US Government. The $25 million replaces their lost revenue for having to cancel all their performances that are revenue generating. In the next round of appropriations, you will probably see similar outlays for the different Smithsonian museums, and possibly funds to replace lost revenues from user fees in National Parks. This is being done for the same reasons we are bailing out all sorts of things right now. It's also why you have seen non-profits be made eligible for all the PPP funding available. Those institutions are all important to this country and provide jobs and positive economic impacts.

The Kennedy Center in NO shape form or fashion is essential. Nobody will die if the Kennedy Center closes forever. Nobody but the elites with plenty of money will even miss it. Whoever inserted that or agreed to it should be charged and convicted of treason. For the record I'm a great fan of what it does. The key word is FAN.

[BrunswickDawg]

The Kennedy Center in NO shape form or fashion is essential. Nobody will die if the Kennedy Center closes forever. Nobody but the elites with plenty of money will even miss it. Whoever inserted that or agreed to it should be charged and convicted of treason. For the record I'm a great fan of what it does. The key word is FAN.

There are going to be trillions spent bailing out non-essentials in this mess. And, some will get priorities because of politics. Like or not, it's how politics is done.

[Liverpooldawg]

There are going to be trillions spent bailing out non-essentials in this mess. And, some will get priorities because of politics. Like or not, it's how politics is done.

So you are fine with people dying or ordinary people going bankrupt so the Elitist Kennedy Center can get unessential money. There is NO other way to read your post, sorry. Is that REALLY what you wanted to say. Anything else unessential should be treated as I said. The people that put that in and allowed it to pass are pure scum. I am perfectly aware that implicates every single Member of Congress that voted for it and the man that signed it.

[Turfdawg67]

So you are fine with people dying or ordinary people going bankrupt so the Elitist Kennedy Center can get unessential money. There is NO other way to read your post, sorry. Is that REALLY what you wanted to say. Anything else unessential should be treated as I said. The people that put that in and allowed it to pass are pure scum. I am perfectly aware that implicates every single Member of Congress that voted for it and the man that signed it.

You've called an end to this thread multiple times... yet here you are again.

[BrunswickDawg]

So you are fine with people dying or ordinary people going bankrupt so the Elitist Kennedy Center can get unessential money. There is NO other way to read your post, sorry. Is that REALLY what you wanted to say. Anything else unessential should be treated as I said. The people that put that in and allowed it to pass are pure scum. I am perfectly aware that implicates every single Member of Congress that voted for it and the man that signed it.

Everything thing in those bills are special interest driven. Every one. You screaming about pennies for one and ignore billions in largess spent on the airlines, the oil companies, etc. Those special interests will once again figure out how to give it to stockholders, cut jobs, screw people out of earned pensions by "going bankrupt", and come out ahead. That is the real treason.

[Cooterpoot]

Fauci is a fraud. Guy was saying millions die if we do nothing and 200,000 if we do it perfect. And that was all while not even believing in silent carriers. The man blew it. Completely got it wrong.

[dantheman4248]

When you make a whataboutism point about 25 million to counter 2 trillion being corruptly distributed.... you're a lost cause. It's already been discussed and agreed by all sides (IN THIS VERY THREAD) that politicians across the board have this stupid tendency to add unnecessary shit to bills. Kennedy Center is one of many.

It's just plain sad to see people think this has to be blindly tribal and expect everyone to be that way. I didn't like it's addition to the bill. But it's 80,000 times smaller than the issue at hand. There are bigger fish to fry right now. It's a joke to even try to compare the two and whataboutism is up there with ad hominem for the worst debate tactics. It shows a weak argument because you've conceded arguing the point.

Brunswick put eloquently what will happen even with oversight because that's the shitty reality of our politics from both sides. Special interests will be taken care of over the common man in the name of trickle down economics. We get mad in crisis at those who hoard toilet paper; however, we don't bat an eye at the consolidation and hoarding of money / wealth.

The difference with what Trump did is he positioned himself to be in control of 20 times as much money as Putin is in control of. Putin became de facto dictator of Russia not by force or by preaching a cause to rally the people behind, but by sole control of the money. The rich bend to his will to keep that flow going. Donald is setting himself to have no opposition to his control of this money and have 20X as much as Putin.

Regardless of policies the person has, that should enrage you at your core as an American and a person who stands for freedom. If you need help getting mad, imagine the sick things Hillary could do with that power and money. She could have Epstein shot on live TV and laugh about. She could nuke Benghazi off the map and strike it from the history books. Biden is no different. How many women he'd forget to silence or how many phone scams he'd give away his social security too. Bernie would do awful things like universal healthcare or rectify the fact that CEO's have had a 900%+ average pay increase since 1978 while the average american has had only about a 15ish% pay increase. Or perhaps he would even eradicate all student loan debt the monster. Then our average McD's manager might not be miserable with their mountains of debt for their masters degree in 16th century french lit and may actually be happy to do their job and thus not **** up my order. What a horrible society!

Regardless the scary thought here is watching the US become like Russia. If that's what you want then say it comrade.

[Commercecomet24]

Fauci is a fraud. Guy was saying millions die if we do nothing and 200,000 if we do it perfect. And that was all while not even believing in silent carriers. The man blew it. Completely got it wrong.

Yep 100% right.

[Todd4State]

Fauci is a fraud. Guy was saying millions die if we do nothing and 200,000 if we do it perfect. And that was all while not even believing in silent carriers. The man blew it. Completely got it wrong.

And will still probably win a Nobel Peace Prize for it.

[Todd4State]

Everything thing in those bills are special interest driven. Every one. You screaming about pennies for one and ignore billions in largess spent on the airlines, the oil companies, etc. Those special interests will once again figure out how to give it to stockholders, cut jobs, screw people out of earned pensions by "going bankrupt", and come out ahead. That is the real treason.

Thing about it is no matter who does what in this country...ahem world.... SOMEONE is going to get paid for it. That's just the way it is.

[dawgday166]

When you make a whataboutism point about 25 million to counter 2 trillion being corruptly distributed.... you're a lost cause. It's already been discussed and agreed by all sides (IN THIS VERY THREAD) that politicians across the board have this stupid tendency to add unnecessary shit to bills. Kennedy Center is one of many.

It's just plain sad to see people think this has to be blindly tribal and expect everyone to be that way. I didn't like it's addition to the bill. But it's 80,000 times smaller than the issue at hand. There are bigger fish to fry right now. It's a joke to even try to compare the two and whataboutism is up there with ad hominem for the worst debate tactics. It shows a weak argument because you've conceded arguing the point.

Brunswick put eloquently what will happen even with oversight because that's the shitty reality of our politics from both sides. Special interests will be taken care of over the common man in the name of trickle down economics. We get mad in crisis at those who hoard toilet paper; however, we don't bat an eye at the consolidation and hoarding of money / wealth.

The difference with what Trump did is he positioned himself to be in control of 20 times as much money as Putin is in control of. Putin became de facto dictator of Russia not by force or by preaching a cause to rally the people behind, but by sole control of the money. The rich bend to his will to keep that flow going. Donald is setting himself to have no opposition to his control of this money and have 20X as much as Putin.

Regardless of policies the person has, that should enrage you at your core as an American and a person who stands for freedom. If you need help getting mad, imagine the sick things Hillary could do with that power and money. She could have Epstein shot on live TV and laugh about. She could nuke Benghazi off the map and strike it from the history books. Biden is no different. How many women he'd forget to silence or how many phone scams he'd give away his social security too. Bernie would do awful things like universal healthcare or rectify the fact that CEO's have had a 900%+ average pay increase since 1978 while the average american has had only about a 15ish% pay increase. Or perhaps he would even eradicate all student loan debt the monster. Then our average McD's manager might not be miserable with their mountains of debt for their masters degree in 16th century french lit and may actually be happy to do their job and thus not **** up my order. What a horrible society!

Regardless the scary thought here is watching the US become like Russia. If that's what you want then say it comrade.

Republicans tend toward fascism. Democrats tend toward communism ... comrade. Free market capitalism is different than both.

[Jack Lambert]

Fauci is a fraud. Guy was saying millions die if we do nothing and 200,000 if we do it perfect. And that was all while not even believing in silent carriers. The man blew it. Completely got it wrong.

I give Kudos to the 8 states that did not shut down. Yes some areas needed to shut down. MIssissippi was not one of them. 90% who contract the virus have either no symptoms or mild symptoms. 98% will recover. Just isolate the 10%. Let everyone else go to work. Keep your hands washed and don't touch your face. IF you feel sick or have fever stay home. 100% of Americans are going to suffer because of the 10% when all we had to do is isolate them. Hell they are isolated now anyways. Time to go back to work.

[hacker]

The experts told us social distancing would work. It's working. WHY DID WE LISTEN TO THEM? THEY'RE ALL FRAUDS

Y'all are dense

[hacker]

Pretty sure Fauci said 100,000-200,000 and I'm also pretty sure by this time next year we'll get to 100,000 if not sooner. The absolute best case model says 60k by August. This isn't just going to go away.

[hacker]

"My doctor said I'd die if I didn't get my cancer treatment, so I got it and it's working. WHY DID I LISTEN TO HIM? 100% FRAUD"

[turkish]

1-200k across 2 season of the virus, with NO vaccine — sounds fluish.

[dantheman4248]

1-200k across 2 season of the virus, with NO vaccine — sounds fluish.

I wonder what the different between the one with a vaccine and the one without a vaccine is? I can't figure it out, I'm too liberal to deal with binary differences like this.

[dantheman4248]

Yep 100% right.

It appears cooter misquoted Fauci. This was indeed not 100% right. 100K-200K yearly total and the best case model right now shows 60k by aug 4th.

I don't understand this complex with trying to boogeyman anyone out of this (let alone Fauci). Blame China and their lies, but don't fall for this schtick of making Fauci the fall guy. Our inaction was spearheaded from the top and his public comments are etched forever on the record. If you still watch TV the "it will go away like a miracle" "no one is doing better than us" will be overlayed with the death statistics we have from this ad nauseam during the election cycle.

Also on an overall note for those celebrating before the finish line:

“Nothing would be worse than declaring victory before the victory is won,” Trump said at a press conference. “That would be the greatest loss of all.” <-- Spicing it up with a good quote from the pres.

[hacker]

1-200k across 2 season of the virus, with NO vaccine — sounds fluish.

Now imagine what would happen if we were just going about our business

[chef dixon]

Fauci is a fraud. Guy was saying millions die if we do nothing and 200,000 if we do it perfect. And that was all while not even believing in silent carriers. The man blew it. Completely got it wrong.

Just curious, what are your expectations of him? This is a completely new scenario for everyone and its obviously a fluid situation. I'm not sure how you can call him a fraud based on some projections. I mean Trump said in February that we had a couple cases and it was under control, and this would ultimately be nothing. No one is going to get this perfectly correct. Also, what makes you think this is over? We are having about 2k die per day right now and will have to see how this trends. I know you've posted here before you've had some pretty serious health issues that put you at risk, so one way one could see it is Fauci has you and many others best interest in mind.

[Johnson85]

Republicans tend toward fascism. Democrats tend toward communism ... comrade. Free market capitalism is different than both.

Not by any normal definition of fascism. Fascism and communism are competing ideologies, but they are both on the left by any reasonable definition. If you are using fascism as a synonym for corporatism, which can sort of look similar if you squint in the sense that national and corporate interests are basically merged, then that would be fair'ish, although I think that's still inaccurate, as it's more about crony capitalism and rewarding particular politically connected people than thinking of the interests as the same. .

[turkish]

Now imagine what would happen if we were just going about our business
Like half is social media is complaining about folks not doing? Seems Fauci irresponsibly left out a hefty caveat, if what you say was his intent. Is he assuming we continue the distancing until this time next year?

[Gutter Cobreh]

The experts told us social distancing would work. It's working. WHY DID WE LISTEN TO THEM? THEY'RE ALL FRAUDS

Y'all are dense

Truer words have never been posted.

[Gutter Cobreh]

Now imagine what would happen if we were just going about our business

And the national stockpile has been depleted, simply covering these lower case numbers. Imagine how that would look if we were going about our business and the tools needed to care for more patients across the country were truly obsolete. You'd be looking at martial law very quickly.

[hacker]

Like half is social media is complaining about folks not doing? Seems Fauci irresponsibly left out a hefty caveat, if what you say was his intent.

Let's do some quick math

If the virus spreads from each person to 2.5 other people, after 10 generations, that is 9536 people infected
If the virus spreads from each person to 1.5 other people, after 10 generations, that is 58 people infected

2.5 ^ 10 = 9536
1.5 ^ 10 = 58

If each person spreads it to one less person, that makes a huge difference, doesn't it? It's not that difficult to see why this is working.

[turkish]

Your math proves a 6th grader should be able to suggest social distancing, with which I agree.

Me and my family have been isolating since before deadhead was making an idiot of himself. I feel like the positive trends lately have been in spite of so many others not doing the same. These thoughts are as anecdotal as your photos.

[BeardoMSU]

"My doctor said I'd die if I didn't get my cancer treatment, so I got it and it's working. WHY DID I LISTEN TO HIM? 100% FRAUD"

/thread

[msstate7]

I don't think fauci is a fraud, but he certainly isn't above criticism. Not hard to end up being right when you can change your stance and be heralded the whole way...

"It isn't something the American public needs to worry about or be frightened about, because we have ways of preparing and screening of people coming in [from China]," National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) Director Anthony Fauci told "The Cats Roundtable" on 970 AM-N.Y., per The Hill

https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/951325?section=newsfront&keywords=virus-outbreak-infectious-disease&year=2020&month=01&date=26&id=951325&oref=www.bing.com

Also fauci...

Fauci cautioned, ?I don?t think that we really need to make a projection,? because of the uncertainty inherent in the forecasting enterprise. But he did concede that ?looking at what we?re seeing now, I would say between 100,000 and 200,000 cases ? excuse me, deaths ? we?re going to have millions of cases.?

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/29/21198723/coronavirus-deaths-estimate-fauci

[Johnson85]

I don't think fauci is a fraud, but he certainly isn't above criticism. Not hard to end up being right when you can change your stance and be heralded the whole way...

"It isn't something the American public needs to worry about or be frightened about, because we have ways of preparing and screening of people coming in [from China]," National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) Director Anthony Fauci told "The Cats Roundtable" on 970 AM-N.Y., per The Hill

https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/951325?section=newsfront&keywords=virus-outbreak-infectious-disease&year=2020&month=01&date=26&id=951325&oref=www.bing.com

Also fauci...

Fauci cautioned, ?I don?t think that we really need to make a projection,? because of the uncertainty inherent in the forecasting enterprise. But he did concede that ?looking at what we?re seeing now, I would say between 100,000 and 200,000 cases ? excuse me, deaths ? we?re going to have millions of cases.?

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/29/21198723/coronavirus-deaths-estimate-fauci


Being off by 40k to 140k on the number of deaths doesn't seem too bad. That's less than .05% of the US population. If the death rate is 1% percent, having the number of infections off by 1 percentage points (say going from 30% of the population to 29% of population infected) would be 32thousand deaths. Having the death rate off by a quarter of a percentage point, say .75% instead of 1%, and with 30% of the population infected, that's 240,000 fewer deaths.

[msstate7]

Being off by 40k to 140k on the number of deaths doesn't seem too bad. That's less than .05% of the US population. If the death rate is 1% percent, having the number of infections off by 1 percentage points (say going from 30% of the population to 29% of population infected) would be 32thousand deaths. Having the death rate off by a quarter of a percentage point, say .75% instead of 1%, and with 30% of the population infected, that's 240,000 fewer deaths.

I agree with what you. I put both those quotes though bc he went from we (USA) don't need to worry about to 100-200k deaths.

[Dawgfan77]

I speculate that the new numbers will be lowered to possible 45K total deaths. But let's shit on the economy cause democrats hate trump and couldn't impeach him. And now let's have vote by mail so those dead by covid can vote for uncle joe

[hacker]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVQ4wURX0AUyfu5?format=jpg&name=large

[Cooterpoot]

"My doctor said I'd die if I didn't get my cancer treatment, so I got it and it's working. WHY DID I LISTEN TO HIM? 100% FRAUD"

Good thing your Dr. didn't flip flop on his opinion like Fauci. If your Dr. had said he didn't believe your cancer would spread because it's benign, when it was actually aggressive you'd be dead. Glad you're cured.
Watch out for silent carriers, they're all over the grocery stores etc. They're carrying it into LTC facilities. They're the real danger and Fauci didn't believe they were real.

[dantheman4248]

In virus update news, the virus has gotten too smart it outsmarts the antibiotics. The "germ" has gotten too smart. It's outsmarted us all. The nonliving thing is too smart to be stopped by the drugs that by definition kill only living things.

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1248699275355328512?s=21

[Dawgcap]

In virus update news, the virus has gotten too smart it outsmarts the antibiotics. The "germ" has gotten too smart. It's outsmarted us all. The nonliving thing is too smart to be stopped by the drugs that by definition kill only living things.

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1248699275355328512?s=21
And nothing outsmarts you. You have all the answers. Thanks for making a dent in this epidemic and exposing the dictator. I?ll sleep better tonight knowing your expertise will save the world. Thank you and cheers.

[dantheman4248]

And nothing outsmarts you. You have all the answers. Thanks for making a dent in this epidemic and exposing the dictator. I?ll sleep better tonight knowing your expertise will save the world. Thank you and cheers.

Ad hominem attack. Check. Deflection. Check. Avoided responding to the issue. Check.

That's all on you and all I did was paraphrase the CIC.

[dawgday166]

I don't think fauci is a fraud, but he certainly isn't above criticism. Not hard to end up being right when you can change your stance and be heralded the whole way...

"It isn't something the American public needs to worry about or be frightened about, because we have ways of preparing and screening of people coming in [from China]," National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) Director Anthony Fauci told "The Cats Roundtable" on 970 AM-N.Y., per The Hill

https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/951325?section=newsfront&keywords=virus-outbreak-infectious-disease&year=2020&month=01&date=26&id=951325&oref=www.bing.com

Also fauci...

Fauci cautioned, ?I don?t think that we really need to make a projection,? because of the uncertainty inherent in the forecasting enterprise. But he did concede that ?looking at what we?re seeing now, I would say between 100,000 and 200,000 cases ? excuse me, deaths ? we?re going to have millions of cases.?

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/29/21198723/coronavirus-deaths-estimate-fauci

I'm like you on Fauci.

Most modelers will usually be very to extremely conservative when modeling something for the 1st time with very little data. When people's lives are at stake, usually the conservatism increases a good bit. To add to that also, besides the data changing the variables have been too. So I will defend Fauci to a certain extent cause of that.

[dawgday166]

Not by any normal definition of fascism. Fascism and communism are competing ideologies, but they are both on the left by any reasonable definition. If you are using fascism as a synonym for corporatism, which can sort of look similar if you squint in the sense that national and corporate interests are basically merged, then that would be fair'ish, although I think that's still inaccurate, as it's more about crony capitalism and rewarding particular politically connected people than thinking of the interests as the same. .

I mostly agree with that .. both are socialistic (leftist) with fascism being on the far right of the left side.

[Political Hack]

I don't think fauci is a fraud, but he certainly isn't above criticism. Not hard to end up being right when you can change your stance and be heralded the whole way...

"It isn't something the American public needs to worry about or be frightened about, because we have ways of preparing and screening of people coming in [from China]," National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) Director Anthony Fauci told "The Cats Roundtable" on 970 AM-N.Y., per The Hill

https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/951325?section=newsfront&keywords=virus-outbreak-infectious-disease&year=2020&month=01&date=26&id=951325&oref=www.bing.com

Also fauci...

Fauci cautioned, ?I don?t think that we really need to make a projection,? because of the uncertainty inherent in the forecasting enterprise. But he did concede that ?looking at what we?re seeing now, I would say between 100,000 and 200,000 cases ? excuse me, deaths ? we?re going to have millions of cases.?

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/29/21198723/coronavirus-deaths-estimate-fauci

There's a massive difference between early projections and projections based on empirical evidence, which we now have. At the time of this statement, he was probably right. However, now we need projections to determine the extent to which we can reopen the economy. Historically, the 2nd wave of illness has proven to be the most problematic. I hope people just continue to distance themselves and wear mask and wipe down packages and groceries so on and so forth... once people get lazy and stop doing those things, they're hurting everyone and especially the front line responders.

[defiantdog]

To throw it out there..... I started feeling symptoms for Covid-19 on March 29th. I couldn't smell anything unless it was sweet.... couldn't taste unless it was bitter..... couldn't satisfy a deep breath..... became very lethargic..... and simply couldn't get out of bed. And that was the first day. That last about 5 days. Also, around day 2..... I got the worst chills. I broke into 2 sweats that night. I didn't eat anything for 3 days..... had absolutely no appetite.

On day 5, I started to feel better. It was a lie. Thursday hit and that was the first day I thought about going to the ER. My breathing and anxiety We're through the roof. I couldn't take a deep breath, felt like someone was stepping on my chest, and choking me at the same time. Luckily, I was able to fall asleep.

Also, to add..... the days were much better than the nights. Except in the beginning..... it was all bad.

I'm on day 14 now and I'm just now feeling a little more comfortable breathing. I still have some trouble satisfying a deep breath.

This thing is not fun. I'm 37, in good health, and no under lining conditions. And I thought I was going to the ER.

I've drank more water the last two weeks than I have in my life..... but I will say, a physician friend of mine suggested taking mucinex with zycam. It didn't make the virus go away, but it did help with the symptoms.

[msstate7]

To throw it out there..... I started feeling symptoms for Covid-19 on March 29th. I couldn't smell anything unless it was sweet.... couldn't taste unless it was bitter..... couldn't satisfy a deep breath..... became very lethargic..... and simply couldn't get out of bed. And that was the first day. That last about 5 days. Also, around day 2..... I got the worst chills. I broke into 2 sweats that night. I didn't eat anything for 3 days..... had absolutely no appetite.

On day 5, I started to feel better. It was a lie. Thursday hit and that was the first day I thought about going to the ER. My breathing and anxiety We're through the roof. I couldn't take a deep breath, felt like someone was stepping on my chest, and choking me at the same time. Luckily, I was able to fall asleep.

Also, to add..... the days were much better than the nights. Except in the beginning..... it was all bad.

I'm on day 14 now and I'm just now feeling a little more comfortable breathing. I still have some trouble satisfying a deep breath.

This thing is not fun. I'm 37, in good health, and no under lining conditions. And I thought I was going to the ER.

I've drank more water the last two weeks than I have in my life..... but I will say, a physician friend of mine suggested taking mucinex with zycam. It didn't make the virus go away, but it did help with the symptoms.

Glad you're better.

So did you test positive? Has anyone else in your circle got it too?

[defiantdog]

Glad you're better.

So did you test positive? Has anyone else in your circle got it too?
UAB would not test me because I didn't have underlying conditions and I'm still considered young. At the time I called them, my temperature was normal. But that's the thing..... my temperature has gone from 98.6 to 100.8 back to 98.6 in a matter of two hours. They only wanted to test me if my temperature went above 102 consistently..... thinking back, I should've lied. They told me to isolate myself. One person that I've come in contact with within the last month has shown up positive for covid. Luckily, she's 27 and in great shape. She'll power through this. My primary doctor has been in contact with me, but I couldn't imagine going through this if I had respiratory issues.

[dawgday166]

UAB would not test me because I didn't have underlying conditions and I'm still considered young. At the time I called them, my temperature was normal. But that's the thing..... my temperature has gone from 98.6 to 100.8 back to 98.6 in a matter of two hours. They only wanted to test me if my temperature went above 102 consistently..... thinking back, I should've lied. They told me to isolate myself. One person that I've come in contact with within the last month has shown up positive for covid. Luckily, she's 27 and in great shape. She'll power through this. My primary doctor has been in contact with me, but I couldn't imagine going through this if I had respiratory issues.

Glad you seem to be better dude. Hope she doesn't get too sick with it.

Just curious ... do you know your blood type?

[defiantdog]

A positive..... wife and kid are both 0 positive. They haven't showed any signs. Looks like I was wrong about the blood type thing

[dawgday166]

A positive..... wife and kid are both 0 positive. They haven't showed any signs. Looks like I was wrong about the blood type thing

I had read that too. Gonna still be careful myself but I'm O+.

I been wondering with some of the data trends and how hard certain areas are hit .. is it ethnicity (Italian maybe since NY has 2nd highest Italian ethnic population) or blood type ... combo of the 2. Not sure.

ETA: And even tho O blood types may not get it as bad, probably doesn't mean they couldn't be carriers.

[msstate7]

It's so weird to me that blood types might be the difference in getting hammered and hardly affected. Is this common among viruses?

[dawgday166]

It's so weird to me that blood types might be the difference in getting hammered and hardly affected. Is this common among viruses?

Here come the experts ... deadhead & dano *****

ETA: Honestly tho .. I'm not gonna count on that myself.

[hacker]

To throw it out there..... I started feeling symptoms for Covid-19 on March 29th. I couldn't smell anything unless it was sweet.... couldn't taste unless it was bitter..... couldn't satisfy a deep breath..... became very lethargic..... and simply couldn't get out of bed. And that was the first day. That last about 5 days. Also, around day 2..... I got the worst chills. I broke into 2 sweats that night. I didn't eat anything for 3 days..... had absolutely no appetite.

On day 5, I started to feel better. It was a lie. Thursday hit and that was the first day I thought about going to the ER. My breathing and anxiety We're through the roof. I couldn't take a deep breath, felt like someone was stepping on my chest, and choking me at the same time. Luckily, I was able to fall asleep.

Also, to add..... the days were much better than the nights. Except in the beginning..... it was all bad.

I'm on day 14 now and I'm just now feeling a little more comfortable breathing. I still have some trouble satisfying a deep breath.

This thing is not fun. I'm 37, in good health, and no under lining conditions. And I thought I was going to the ER.

I've drank more water the last two weeks than I have in my life..... but I will say, a physician friend of mine suggested taking mucinex with zycam. It didn't make the virus go away, but it did help with the symptoms.

Glad you're feeling better and thanks for posting.

The fact that you couldn't get tested irritates the piss out of me. We need to be testing 10x more people if we want this to stop anytime soon.

Part of me thinks we're not testing more because the numbers would be scary and people would panic. But it's what we need to do.

[defiantdog]

Glad you're feeling better and thanks for posting.

The fact that you couldn't get tested irritates the piss out of me. We need to be testing 10x more people if we want this to stop anytime soon.

Part of me thinks we're not testing more because the numbers would be scary and people would panic. But it's what we need to do.

The nurse at UAB said I was one of over a hundred that had called that day about symptoms.

[dawgday166]

The nurse at UAB said I was one of over a hundred that had called that day about symptoms.

I agree with hacker on this one ... need to be testing everyone with symptoms. Right now Alabama has 3563 positive and over 20K negatives. Maybe that's why they are selective in testing but IMO need to test anyone with symptoms. And what you had are the symptoms.

[dantheman4248]

Here come the experts ... deadhead & dano *****

ETA: Honestly tho .. I'm not gonna count on that myself.

Nah I have no idea on that and the study that started that hubbub came from China. So I didn't even bother trying to talk about it. At this point I feel it's fair to operate on "Don't believe China and their lies." Same country that said there's no proof of human-to-human transmission.

[BullDog]

I agree with what you. I put both those quotes though bc he went from we (USA) don't need to worry about to 100-200k deaths.

All is sketchy

https://youtu.be/GJb-g8ZB4xo

https://youtu.be/jsV_YXq-1x4

[hacker]

It's so weird to me that blood types might be the difference in getting hammered and hardly affected. Is this common among viruses?

Seems to be true for malaria at least:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/03/150309124113.htm

[defiantdog]

I agree with hacker on this one ... need to be testing everyone with symptoms. Right now Alabama has 3563 positive and over 20K negatives. Maybe that's why they are selective in testing but IMO need to test anyone with symptoms. And what you had are the symptoms.
The drive thru testing stations screwed everything up because healthy folks were getting tested. I was shocked when they told me they wouldn't test me. And trust me..... the first 5 days of what I had were unbearable. Couldn't even walk to the bathroom at times. I told my doctor everything and even told UAB and they simply said to self isolate for 7 days and quarantine for at least another 7 days. I'm going to isolate for as long as possible because I don't want anyone getting what I had / have.

[msstate7]

Seems to be true for malaria at least:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/03/150309124113.htm

Thanks.

Interesting that Hydroxychloroquine treats malaria

[dawgday166]

The drive thru testing stations screwed everything up because healthy folks were getting tested. I was shocked when they told me they wouldn't test me. And trust me..... the first 5 days of what I had were unbearable. Couldn't even walk to the bathroom at times. I told my doctor everything and even told UAB and they simply said to self isolate for 7 days and quarantine for at least another 7 days. I'm going to isolate for as long as possible because I don't want anyone getting what I had / have.

Damn dude ... glad you feeling better now. Even tho I'm O+ ... don't really wanna get it myself.

[hacker]

The drive thru testing stations screwed everything up because healthy folks were getting tested. I was shocked when they told me they wouldn't test me. And trust me..... the first 5 days of what I had were unbearable. Couldn't even walk to the bathroom at times. I told my doctor everything and even told UAB and they simply said to self isolate for 7 days and quarantine for at least another 7 days. I'm going to isolate for as long as possible because I don't want anyone getting what I had / have.

Dang, I thought you had to have symptoms to get tested at the drive thrus as well. Maybe people are just lying about having them.

[hacker]

The drive thru testing stations screwed everything up because healthy folks were getting tested. I was shocked when they told me they wouldn't test me. And trust me..... the first 5 days of what I had were unbearable. Couldn't even walk to the bathroom at times. I told my doctor everything and even told UAB and they simply said to self isolate for 7 days and quarantine for at least another 7 days. I'm going to isolate for as long as possible because I don't want anyone getting what I had / have.

Just curious, have you been working / been around people? How do you think you caught it?

[defiantdog]

Dang, I thought you had to have symptoms to get tested at the drive thrus as well. Maybe people are just lying about having them.

Either way..... it's disturbing that they're turning people down to take a test because they don't fit "they're criteria." I've had trouble breathing for 14 days now and that isn't criteria enough. Unfortunately, there's people with my symptoms still going out and grocery shopping.

[defiantdog]

Just curious, have you been working / been around people? How do you think you caught it?

I work in the food industry and my admin assistant just got covid as well (2 weeks after I started getting symptoms). We are the only two (so far) that have showed any symptoms. I honestly believe I got it grocery shopping. End of March, the grocery stores were packed. I washed my hands and took precautions.

[hacker]

I work in the food industry and my admin assistant just got covid as well (2 weeks after I started getting symptoms). We are the only two (so far) that have showed any symptoms. I honestly believe I got it grocery shopping. End of March, the grocery stores were packed. I washed my hands and took precautions.

That's crazy. That is not what I wanted to hear, haha. I'm only going out for groceries.

Glad you're doing better and the family didn't get sick too.

[defiantdog]

That's crazy. That is not what I wanted to hear, haha. I'm only going out for groceries.

Glad you're doing better and the family didn't get sick too.
Be careful and wear a mask. I've had the flu,
Strep throat, and even spinal meningitis as a kid. Nothing has kept me out of commission like this for two weeks (and counting). I think as myself to be healthy and this thing has kicked my ass (but I have lost 10 pounds so far).

[SheltonChoked]

The Kennedy Center in NO shape form or fashion is essential. Nobody will die if the Kennedy Center closes forever. Nobody but the elites with plenty of money will even miss it. Whoever inserted that or agreed to it should be charged and convicted of treason. For the record I'm a great fan of what it does. The key word is FAN.

By that logic, no one associated with any recreational activity should be paid during this? No sports, no stadium workers, no Front office, no support staff, no athletic departments, etc.

[Extendedcab]

The drive thru testing stations screwed everything up because healthy folks were getting tested. I was shocked when they told me they wouldn't test me. And trust me..... the first 5 days of what I had were unbearable. Couldn't even walk to the bathroom at times. I told my doctor everything and even told UAB and they simply said to self isolate for 7 days and quarantine for at least another 7 days. I'm going to isolate for as long as possible because I don't want anyone getting what I had / have.

Defiantdog,

I had those symptoms too, the shortness of breath is down right scary. I apparently contacted mine around March 6 (wedding with out of town guests) and just fully recovered last Thursday. I felt, last week end and most of last week, like I had a relapse. The relapse was just as intense, symptoms wise, as the first time I went through it. Weird as hell! My doctor would not test me either since my fever was not above 101.5.

I have o+ blood and in good health with no underlining conditions but I am 62.

[Johnson85]

Defiantdog,

I had those symptoms too, the shortness of breath is down right scary. I apparently contacted mine around March 6 (wedding with out of town guests) and just fully recovered last Thursday. I felt, last week end and most of last week, like I had a relapse. The relapse was just as intense, symptoms wise, as the first time I went through it. Weird as hell! My doctor would not test me either since my fever was not above 101.5.

I have o+ blood and in good health with no underlining conditions but I am 62.

So I assume if they wouldn't test you that you never were offered any medication?

[confucius say]

That's crazy. That is not what I wanted to hear, haha. I'm only going out for groceries.

Glad you're doing better and the family didn't get sick too.

Hacker, we started using the Kroger app to have our groceries delivered, if that is smn that you might want to look into. Cost $10 but well worth it.

[msstate7]

Can we (US) get a 3rd straight day of deaths and cases dropping?

[Extendedcab]

So I assume if they wouldn't test you that you never were offered any medication?

Correct, they told me to take Tylenol (low grade fever and body aches), drink plenty of water, get plenty of electrolytes, eat as best I could and rest. Call back if symptoms worsened.

[RocketDawg]

Defiantdog,

I had those symptoms too, the shortness of breath is down right scary. I apparently contacted mine around March 6 (wedding with out of town guests) and just fully recovered last Thursday. I felt, last week end and most of last week, like I had a relapse. The relapse was just as intense, symptoms wise, as the first time I went through it. Weird as hell! My doctor would not test me either since my fever was not above 101.5.

I have o+ blood and in good health with no underlining conditions but I am 62.

Strange that they wouldn't test you. You're in the right age group, show symptoms, and there are supposed to be plenty of tests available.

[hacker]

Can we (US) get a 3rd straight day of deaths and cases dropping?

Sunday and Monday reporting is almost always lower and I expect today's to be even lower due to the fact that yesterday was Easter. Our big jumps in new cases and deaths almost always falls on a Tuesday as the weekend's reporting catches up. If the trend of dropping continues into Tuesday and Wednesday, then that'd be a great sign.

[msstate7]

Sunday and Monday reporting is almost always lower and I expect today's to be even lower due to the fact that yesterday was Easter. Our big jumps in new cases and deaths almost always falls on a Tuesday as the weekend's reporting catches up. If the trend of dropping continues into Tuesday and Wednesday, then that'd be a great sign.

Last Sunday (April 4th) is still the largest number of cases report; it was the high water mark for deaths, but got passed on April 7th

[Dawgology]

Strange that they wouldn't test you. You're in the right age group, show symptoms, and there are supposed to be plenty of tests available.

That's what I'm thinking also. I'd be kicking that doctor in his ass. They dropped the 101.5 fever requirement a long time ago in Mississippi.

[hacker]

Hacker, we started using the Kroger app to have our groceries delivered, if that is smn that you might want to look into. Cost $10 but well worth it.

Yeah, I just live a few blocks from my Kroger and hate to send someone in there for me. I'm mid thirties and no underlying conditions, so not in a high risk group. I've been thinking about doing pickup though.

[hacker]

Last Sunday (April 4th) is still the largest number of cases report; it was the high water mark for deaths, but got passed on April 7th

April 4 was Saturday, reporting from Friday

[msstate7]

April 4 was Saturday, reporting from Friday

Yeah, it was Saturday (oops). Point sorta remains though, cases and deaths dropped on April 11th, and they spiked (at time for deaths, still for cases) on the previous Saturday.

ETA... holiday weekend though

[yjnkdawg]

Hacker, we started using the Kroger app to have our groceries delivered, if that is smn that you might want to look into. Cost $10 but well worth it.


I have used the Kroger free pick-up and the Kroger (Instacart) delivery during this crisis and both are a great way to stay out of the crowds. They may be out of some things you want, but that's just the way it is now. Everything pretty much balanced out from one to the other. I felt sorry for the shopper delivery guy. He told me that the people freaking out was ruining him because this was his way of making a living , it hurt his average rating, and that one woman had gotten mad earlier because he couldn't get everything she wanted. I told him limited supply of groceries was not his fault, and gave him an extra $7 in addition to the Kroger tip on the bill. More products were available this past Friday on the pick-up. I scheduled the pick-up about a week prior too and I was able to get an early pick up time.

[defiantdog]

Defiantdog,

I had those symptoms too, the shortness of breath is down right scary. I apparently contacted mine around March 6 (wedding with out of town guests) and just fully recovered last Thursday. I felt, last week end and most of last week, like I had a relapse. The relapse was just as intense, symptoms wise, as the first time I went through it. Weird as hell! My doctor would not test me either since my fever was not above 101.5.

I have o+ blood and in good health with no underlining conditions but I am 62.

Yeah, my shortness of breath was scary last night. I didn't fall asleep until after 6am. Nights are just awful with this thing.

[Cooterpoot]

Strange that they wouldn't test you. You're in the right age group, show symptoms, and there are supposed to be plenty of tests available.

There aren't enough tests. One of the nursing homes I'm familiar with didnt even test employees after a resident tested positive. Hell, the only way it couldve gotten there is from employees because it's been locked down for 6 weeks. They said there aren't enough tests.

[Todd4State]

There aren't enough tests. One of the nursing homes I'm familiar with didnt even test employees after a resident tested positive. Hell, the only way it couldve gotten there is from employees because it's been locked down for 6 weeks. They said there aren't enough tests.

(And they don't want to quarantine their entire staff)

[msstate7]

So what do y'all make of the lack of deaths (good thing) in the 2 most populated states in the US, California and Texas? California currently sits at 19 per million, and Texas is at 11 per million. NY is #3 in population, and they currently sit at 513 per million. California has twice the Chinese population as NY ( http://chineseadvertisingagencies.com/Chinese-demographics.html )

[Todd4State]

So what do y'all make of the lack of deaths (good thing) in the 2 most populated states in the US, California and Texas? California currently sits at 19 per million, and Texas is at 11 per million. NY is #3 in population, and they currently sit at 513 per million. California has twice the Chinese population as NY ( http://chineseadvertisingagencies.com/Chinese-demographics.html )

It's very simple. It's not as bad as they feared. We have way better healthcare in the US too.

[Jack Lambert]

Sunday and Monday reporting is almost always lower and I expect today's to be even lower due to the fact that yesterday was Easter. Our big jumps in new cases and deaths almost always falls on a Tuesday as the weekend's reporting catches up. If the trend of dropping continues into Tuesday and Wednesday, then that'd be a great sign.

I think this has been among us since December. So all the expected days are off. Obviously just my opinion.

[SheltonChoked]

So what do y'all make of the lack of deaths (good thing) in the 2 most populated states in the US, California and Texas? California currently sits at 19 per million, and Texas is at 11 per million. NY is #3 in population, and they currently sit at 513 per million. California has twice the Chinese population as NY ( http://chineseadvertisingagencies.com/Chinese-demographics.html )

The major areas of Texas started social distancing fairly early early(around March 9-12) ( Closed Houston Rodeo, canceled SXSW) and major businesses started work from home by mid March , but I know from anecdotal information that testing is WAY behind. I know of at least 10 people who were exposed and had symptoms but were not tested due to availability.

After seeing the reports of how many are dying at home in New York, I want to wait and see the death by all causes vs history numbers before we start to declare victory just yet...

[SheltonChoked]

It's very simple. It's not as bad as they feared. We have way better healthcare in the US too.

Or we are doing more to stop the spread than anyone thought....

But we knew that if we did this right, there would be those that don't understand how bad it would have been without shutting it all down...

That said, Harris County Texas with the largest medical city in the world, has a 7% death rate. If the number of cases is off by 10x, that's still a 0.7% death rate...and that doesn't add the died at home but never tested group...

https://harriscounty.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/c0de71f8ea484b85bb5efcb7c07c6914

[Dawgology]

I think this has been among us since December. So all the expected days are off. Obviously just my opinion.

I tend to agree with you. I just don't think the Chinese discover this spreading through Wuhan in November and it didn't show up on American soil until January. Not with the way the world is connected. The Chinese first reported in December but they were tracking and denying this long before December 31.

The Washington State senior center and the cruise line were just two of MANY entry points into the US. This virus had been in NYC a hot minute before the hospitals started getting flooded. It took hold in communities weeks before and spread from the travelers and to the vulnerable, non-travelers and general public silently during a time when the public wasn't even aware of what Covid-19 was...because China was still denying it. The influx was slow enough that it didn't raise alarms until NYC medical facilities were suddenly inundated. The screening procedures in December and January were basically non-existent in the US for travelers coming from abroad.

[StateDawg44]

Or we are doing more to stop the spread than anyone thought....

But we knew that if we did this right, there would be those that don't understand how bad it would have been without shutting it all down...

That said, Harris County Texas with the largest medical city in the world, has a 7% death rate. If the number of cases is off by 10x, that's still a 0.7% death rate...and that doesn't add the died at home but never tested group...

https://harriscounty.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/c0de71f8ea484b85bb5efcb7c07c6914



One can still believe (even from the beginning of alllll of this) that it's not as bad as they feared and also understand where we are now and appreciate the benefits that social distancing has given. I don't see anyone arguing that there is no possibility that it may have been worse if social distancing and quarantining wasn't implemented.


Why try to make it sound like ones opinion must fall on one side or the other?

[Dawgology]

One can still believe (even from the beginning of alllll of this) that it's not as bad as they feared and also understand where we are now and appreciate the benefits that social distancing has given. I don't see anyone arguing that there is no possibility that it may have been worse if social distancing and quarantining wasn't implemented.


Why try to make it sound like ones opinion must fall on one side or the other?

This

[turkish]

Virus has been about what I expected. Economic impacts are worse than I expected and getting worse still. I?m not talking about the stock market, either. Whole lot of folks that are still pretty comfortable are gonna be out of a job before the end of the summer.

[Commercecomet24]

One can still believe (even from the beginning of alllll of this) that it's not as bad as they feared and also understand where we are now and appreciate the benefits that social distancing has given. I don't see anyone arguing that there is no possibility that it may have been worse if social distancing and quarantining wasn't implemented.


Why try to make it sound like ones opinion must fall on one side or the other?

Yep.

[hacker]

I think the IHME model (60k deaths model) is way too conservative.

First of all, the way this model works is that they selected a mathematical curve and added data to it. It doesn't take into account the fact that our new cases are still about the same as they were 10 days ago. It expects the tail end of the curve to be more like a freefall and I don't think that's going to happen.

You can look at Spain and Italy on this model and see how they're supposed to be down to 100-200 deaths per day right now, yet they're still around 600. It says they'll be under 100 deaths per day by next week.

Finally, for the US, it predicts we'll have ZERO deaths after June 27th. That would mean we'd have to virtually eliminate all new cases within about a month. Does anyone see that happening?

[Jack Lambert]

I think the IHME model (60k deaths model) is way too conservative.

First of all, the way this model works is that they selected a mathematical curve and added data to it. It doesn't take into account the fact that our new cases are still about the same as they were 10 days ago. It expects the tail end of the curve to be more like a freefall and I don't think that's going to happen.

You can look at Spain and Italy on this model and see how they're supposed to be down to 100-200 deaths per day right now, yet they're still around 600. It says they'll be under 100 deaths per day by next week.

Finally, for the US, it predicts we'll have ZERO deaths after June 27th. That would mean we'd have to virtually eliminate all new cases within about a month. Does anyone see that happening?

I would say there more then 23K death already. I suspect there are 1000's who died from it that died back in December and January before we really knew about it. . Again my opinion.

[hacker]

I would say there more then 23K death already. I suspect there are 1000's who died from it that died back in December and January before we really knew about it. . Again my opinion.

I agree with your first sentence, but for a different reason. People are dying that weren't tested.

But regarding December / January, they've been going back and re-testing flu swabs / blood samples in Washington and California (probably other places too). They aren't finding any unknown cases before January 20th (the first known case in the US).

[turkish]

I think the IHME model (60k deaths model) is way too conservative.

First of all, the way this model works is that they selected a mathematical curve and added data to it. It doesn't take into account the fact that our new cases are still about the same as they were 10 days ago. It expects the tail end of the curve to be more like a freefall and I don't think that's going to happen.

You can look at Spain and Italy on this model and see how they're supposed to be down to 100-200 deaths per day right now, yet they're still around 600. It says they'll be under 100 deaths per day by next week.

Finally, for the US, it predicts we'll have ZERO deaths after June 27th. That would mean we'd have to virtually eliminate all new cases within about a month. Does anyone see that happening?
Not to nitpick but the model looks to ramp down on death rate more gradually than the ramp up. I do agree that a death rate of absolutely zero per day is hard to believe. But at the same time not sure if a death rate of, say, 10 per day after June really changes the story.

[hacker]

Not to nitpick but the model looks to ramp down on death rate more gradually than the ramp up. I do agree that a death rate of absolutely zero per day is hard to believe. But at the same time not sure if a death rate of, say, 10 per day after June really changes the story.

If we're still at 60% (see Spain, Italy) of our peak new cases in a month, then about a thousand per day will still be dying on June 1st. They have us at 100 on June 1st.

But let's look even closer to now. They have us at 1100 deaths on May 1st. I can almost guarantee we'll be at the same level of deaths we are now on May 1st because our new cases are still around 30k per day and it takes a couple weeks to die from this disease.

[msstate7]

If we're still at 60% (see Spain, Italy) of our peak new cases in a month, then about a thousand per day will still be dying on June 1st. They have us at 100 on June 1st.

But let's look even closer to now. They have us at 1100 deaths on May 1st. I can almost guarantee we'll be at the same level of deaths we are now on May 1st because our new cases are still around 30k per day and it takes a couple weeks to die from this disease.

Most the deaths are coming from one region of the country. As that region starts going down, so do the deaths, maybe

[dawgday166]

Most the deaths are coming from one region of the country. As that region starts going down, so do the deaths, maybe

Same with US ... no??

[msstate7]

Same with US ... no??

Yeah, I was referring to US, unclearly

[hacker]

Most the deaths are coming from one region of the country. As that region starts going down, so do the deaths, maybe

Yeah, but the cases in that region (understood you meant NYC area) haven't started going down yet. They've plateaued.

Italy peaked around 3 weeks ago. Still doing about 60% of their peak in new cases and deaths.

[hacker]

https://i.imgur.com/q5ICUtQ.png

You can clearly see how off target that model is for Italy. It projected 192 deaths today. 385 was the model's top end projection. But 602 deaths were actually reported.

It projects 0 deaths for them going forward starting on May 2nd.

But they had 3000 new cases today. Some of those will die after May 2nd. And their cases aren't suddenly going to drop to 0 tomorrow.

[msstate7]

https://i.imgur.com/q5ICUtQ.png

You can clearly see how off target that model is for Italy. It projected 192 deaths today. 385 was the model's top end projection. But 602 deaths were actually reported.

It projects 0 deaths for them going forward starting on May 2nd.

But they had 3000 new cases today. Some of those will die after May 2nd. And their cases aren't suddenly going to drop to 0 tomorrow.

How's it doing in the US and other countries? Italy and Spain are pretty much worst case outcomes.

[hacker]

How's it doing in the US and other countries? Italy and Spain are pretty much worst case outcomes.

It's relatively accurate for us so far, but I think the tail of the curve drops too fast. That's what I'm trying to point out.

I think 60k is too low unfortunately

[hacker]

Mississippi schools closed for the rest of the year.

[Dawgfan77]

NY/NJ. 12,000 deaths just terrible. Rest of the country. 12,000. 48 states and 12,000 deaths. We need to get up in running with the economy. Places that have a high population of infection yes continue shut down. Rest of us it's time to get going

[hacker]

NY/NJ. 12,000 deaths just terrible. Rest of the country. 12,000. 48 states and 12,000 deaths. We need to get up in running with the economy. Places that have a high population of infection yes continue shut down. Rest of us it's time to get going

Then the whole country will look like NY/NJ

[hacker]

1250170016504430595

NYC just listed ~3800 more "probable" deaths. Probable means it says covid on their death certificate but no test was done.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVmAHbhXgAEAPCD?format=jpg&name=small

[Extendedcab]

Then the whole country will look like NY/NJ


I thought the whole idea behind the social distancing was not reduce the total number of infected/deaths (that was a given, a constant if you will) but to regulate how many gets infected and dies at any one instant in time to not overwhelm the health care system. If the area under the curve (representing those infected/deaths) is constant then all we have done, using the media and governments terms, is to flatten curve only and not to reduce the area under the curve.

Given the total population and the number of people already infected, including an estimate of those who have had it but not tested, then there is appoint in time where social distancing - extending the time frame in which people get sick, will no longer have the current effect since we will not able to, at that time, overwhelm the health care system. When is that time?

I do agree that the economy - people's livelihood, is being threatened more and more each day with current government restrictions. When is enough, well, enough?

dantheman, do you have any statistics to calculate that?

[hacker]

I thought the whole idea behind the social distancing was not reduce the total number of infected/deaths (that was a given, a constant if you will) but to regulate how many gets infected and dies at any one instant in time to not overwhelm the health care system. If the area under the curve (representing those infected/deaths) is constant then all we have done, using the media and governments terms, is to flatten curve only and not to reduce the area under the curve.

Given the total population and the number of people already infected, including an estimate of those who have had it but not tested, then there is appoint in time where social distancing - extending the time frame in which people get sick, will no longer have the current effect since we will not able to, at that time, overwhelm the health care system. When is that time?

I do agree that the economy - people's livelihood, is being threatened more and more each day with current government restrictions. When is enough, well, enough?

dantheman, do you have any statistics to calculate that?

Considering only 0.0018% of our country's population has tested positive, I don't think we're very close to that time

Even if you say 20x the amount of positives have actually had it, which is a huge leap, that's 12 million people. 313 million population without immunity

[msstate7]

Considering only 0.0018% of our country's population has tested positive, I don't think we're very close to that time

Even if you say 20x the amount of positives have actually had it, which is a huge leap, that's 12 million people. 313 million population without immunity

So we continue at this pace... should have immunity for everyone in 2030. Soon, we'll have to open up

[hacker]

So we continue at this pace... should have immunity for everyone in 2030. Soon, we'll have to open up

I'm sure we will. Then there will be more breakouts and we'll shutdown again.

Hopefully we'll be able to mass test before the second wave.

[hacker]

44 veterans died in Massachusetts

https://www.westernmassnews.com/news/the-latest-state-reports-44-resident-deaths-at-holyoke-soldiers-home/article_88b3a4d8-791d-11ea-b3b7-f37420fe3e63.html

Interesting that 7 of them tested negative

[Todd4State]

So we continue at this pace... should have immunity for everyone in 2030. Soon, we'll have to open up

If the media has their way it will be 2030.

[defiantdog]

Considering only 0.0018% of our country's population has tested positive, I don't think we're very close to that time

Even if you say 20x the amount of positives have actually had it, which is a huge leap, that's 12 million people. 313 million population without immunity
So many more people have this virus and are not tested. They're just told to stay home for 14 days, drink plenty of liquids, and call if the symptoms get worse. The symptoms may not get worse, but they don't really go away. The first week was the worse..... the relapse was bad..... and on day 16, I still have trouble with deep breaths.

So, there are 2 people on this site alone that have symptoms and their respected state won't test them. Just think how many people aren't showing symptoms.

Also to note..... I think I know a symptom they haven't added to the weird list. Being cold without a fever. I'm usually hot natured but I've been wearing sweaters for 2 weeks now. Even when I go outside for some vitamin d. Very strange. No fever but I'm acting like it's 30 degrees in my house..... confusing as hell.

[Cooterpoot]

Can't wait for the economy to start firing back up next month. It'll be slow and in stages but time to get it moving forward.

[Dolphus Raymond]

Unfortunately, due to the collapse in oil prices, the economies of much of the South will languish for some time.

[dantheman4248]

I thought the whole idea behind the social distancing was not reduce the total number of infected/deaths (that was a given, a constant if you will) but to regulate how many gets infected and dies at any one instant in time to not overwhelm the health care system. If the area under the curve (representing those infected/deaths) is constant then all we have done, using the media and governments terms, is to flatten curve only and not to reduce the area under the curve.

Given the total population and the number of people already infected, including an estimate of those who have had it but not tested, then there is appoint in time where social distancing - extending the time frame in which people get sick, will no longer have the current effect since we will not able to, at that time, overwhelm the health care system. When is that time?

I do agree that the economy - people's livelihood, is being threatened more and more each day with current government restrictions. When is enough, well, enough?

dantheman, do you have any statistics to calculate that?

If only there were some way to stabilize people losing their jobs to where they can survive without it. Maybe some type of basic income that everyone can get. That way we wouldn't have to put our health and lives on the line just to pay rent.

Nah then that'd be communism. We don't want that. Especially not with a leader with "total authority". People need to choose between sickness and starvation/homelessness. Can't give out free rides. What kind of country would that be?

If you want a stat look at how little taxes companies like Amazon pay. Then you'll see why the economy is ****ed.

[dantheman4248]

https://www.thehawkeye.com/news/20200414/tyson-foods-hit-hard-by-coronavirus-with-186-positive-cases

Yea that's absolutely not good. Have we determined how long this thing stays alive on surfaces and in food? Yikes. 186/200 tested positive. And these people were still at work.

[Cooterpoot]

People need to choose between sickness and starvation/homelessness.

Over 2.8M have already died from starvation this year. Yet we're worried about 50,000 from some virus. Get back to work.

[defiantdog]

Over 2.8M have already died from starvation this year. Yet we're worried about 50,000 from some virus. Get back to work.
You say that..... but this "virus" has kept me out of work for 2 weeks and now I'm about to take off a third week. I have the means to take off this long, but some people don't. And unless you're asymptomatic...... you aren't working with this virus.

[dantheman4248]

Over 2.8M have already died from starvation this year. Yet we're worried about 50,000 from some virus. Get back to work.

Almost like there's a solution that solves both issues.

[hacker]

Over 2.8M have already died from starvation this year. Yet we're worried about 50,000 from some virus. Get back to work.

Bet you were really pissed about the 4 who died in Benghazi tho

[hacker]

You say that..... but this "virus" has kept me out of work for 2 weeks and now I'm about to take off a third week. I have the means to take off this long, but some people don't. And unless you're asymptomatic...... you aren't working with this virus.

Exactly.

- 300 people test positive at a meat plant and it shuts down: https://apnews.com/0cd7680d2d221944ed05f86691bb3537
- Tyson plant shuts down: https://www.kcrg.com/content/news/Tyson-Foods-to-keep-Columbus-Junction-plant-closed-for-another-week-569601041.html
- JBS USA has closed a Souderton, Pa., beef plant until at least Thursday and has reduced production at a second facility in Greeley, Colo., because of high absenteeism among employees.
- Cargill and Tyson Foods have also closed plants in Pennsylvania and Iowa.

But by all means, lets get this show on the road

[msstate7]

Exactly.

- 300 people test positive at a meat plant and it shuts down: https://apnews.com/0cd7680d2d221944ed05f86691bb3537
- Tyson plant shuts down: https://www.kcrg.com/content/news/Tyson-Foods-to-keep-Columbus-Junction-plant-closed-for-another-week-569601041.html
- JBS USA has closed a Souderton, Pa., beef plant until at least Thursday and has reduced production at a second facility in Greeley, Colo., because of high absenteeism among employees.
- Cargill and Tyson Foods have also closed plants in Pennsylvania and Iowa.

But by all means, lets get this show on the road

Just shut down all meat processing. Problem solved

[hacker]

Just shut down all meat processing. Problem solved

My point is that this is going to happen everywhere if we open up too soon and before mass testing. The economy will be more ****ed than it is now.

And a lot more people will die.

[Dawgcap]

I?ve seen some dumb stuff in my life but there have been a few push the limits. Please explain what you want open, what you want closed. Who should work and who should support the rest. If a group is chose to work do they get hazard pay keeping things going for the ones who need to stay home and stay healthy? Almost as ridiculous as some of yall huh? Not really

[Cooterpoot]

You say that..... but this "virus" has kept me out of work for 2 weeks and now I'm about to take off a third week. I have the means to take off this long, but some people don't. And unless you're asymptomatic...... you aren't working with this virus.

I'm working every day. And I'm an extremely big risk person health wise. It would likelykill me. My point is, it's getting close to time for some people to get back to working. Some companies to get it rolling again. Still a few weeks away, but we're getting ther.

[Cooterpoot]

Bet you were really pissed about the 4 who died in Benghazi tho

I don't get pissed with politics. It's all bullshit. It's like wraslin. It's fake. It's this big act of good vs evil. You guys can argue politics all you want. All of you are on the same team if you're choosing a side.

[Dawgcap]

Not always about politics. I just wonder who should be working? Who?s expendable in your eyes? Who?s not? See the thing is we have issues economically and possibly health care crisis for the near future. Who do you depend on and why do you feel they owe so many something with nothing in return

[Todd4State]

My point is that this is going to happen everywhere if we open up too soon and before mass testing. The economy will be more ****ed than it is now.

And a lot more people will die.

We have to start back at some point. I'm pretty sure it's going to start May 1. It will happen gradually.

[hacker]

I don't get pissed with politics. It's all bullshit. It's like wraslin. It's fake. It's this big act of good vs evil. You guys can argue politics all you want. All of you are on the same team if you're choosing a side.

Damn it, I should've saved that one for someone else then

I actually agree with you about this 100%

[hacker]

We have to start back at some point. I'm pretty sure it's going to start May 1. It will happen gradually.

Yeah, we do. But if we start back when 20k+ people a day are still testing positive, we will reach new highs within weeks and all of this would've been for nothing.

The curve is flattening because we're mostly at home.

I don't see it happening May 1.

[Todd4State]

Yeah, we do. But if we start back when 20k+ people a day are still testing positive, we will reach new highs within weeks and all of this would've been for nothing.

The curve is flattening because we're mostly at home.

I don't see it happening May 1.

Again I think we open gradually. People are going to test positive- but the vast majority aren't needing to be hospitalized. A lot are testing positive and are asymptomatic. Some of that is because of the natural progression of virus exposure and people building immunity to it.

If we just open everything all up at once yeah- it will be a disaster. Trump is forming committees to re-open America for a reason.

And the "experts" have been so far off on their estimates I don't think the government officials are going to buy their expertise as much going forward with the data that is coming in.

[hacker]

@msstate7 checking in on Sweden and its neighbors

Sweden:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-lockdown-doctor-death-certificates-latest-a9462796.html

"Karolinska hospital has issued guidelines to doctors indicating that patients 80 years old and above would not be admitted into intensive care units, nor those between 60 and 80 with pre-existing conditions."


Denmark:

https://www.bccourier.com/denmark-re-opens-daycare-centers-and-schools-on-wednesday/


"In Norway, the kindergartens will be open again next Monday , seven days later the first to fourth grades will follow in schools."

[defiantdog]

I'm working every day. And I'm an extremely big risk person health wise. It would likelykill me. My point is, it's getting close to time for some people to get back to working. Some companies to get it rolling again. Still a few weeks away, but we're getting ther.
I think of myself as a heathy person and this virus has me out of work for a third straight week. Rushing back to work is only going to prolong the process. People need to relax and let this virus run its course.

Do you really want everyone to go back to work on May 1st and start the chaos all over again? This virus sucks..... it keeps us out of work..... but you don't want this thing. You don't want to sit up at night worrying about satisfying a deep breath..... or randomly get freezing cold and start shivering..... or having random diarrhea that hits you even if you haven't eaten in two days..... or being so lethargic that you can't get out of bed to even walk to the bathroom. Oh, and those are considered mild symptoms that last for a week and may or may not come back two weeks later when you think you're recovering. You don't want this shit. Stay the **** home and let this thing run its course.

[Todd4State]

I think of myself as a heathy person and this virus has me out of work for a third straight week. Rushing back to work is only going to prolong the process. People need to relax and let this virus run its course.

Do you really want everyone to go back to work on May 1st and start the chaos all over again? This virus sucks..... it keeps us out of work..... but you don't want this thing. You don't want to sit up at night worrying about satisfying a deep breath..... or randomly get freezing cold and start shivering..... or having random diarrhea that hits you even if you haven't eaten in two days..... or being so lethargic that you can't get out of bed to even walk to the bathroom. Oh, and those are considered mild symptoms that last for a week and may or may not come back two weeks later when you think you're recovering. You don't want this shit. Stay the **** home and let this thing run its course.

I hear you but you also need to understand that a lot of people don't have symptoms as bad as you did. Probably the majority don't.

[msstate7]

@msstate7 checking in on Sweden and its neighbors

Sweden:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-lockdown-doctor-death-certificates-latest-a9462796.html

"Karolinska hospital has issued guidelines to doctors indicating that patients 80 years old and above would not be admitted into intensive care units, nor those between 60 and 80 with pre-existing conditions."


Denmark:

https://www.bccourier.com/denmark-re-opens-daycare-centers-and-schools-on-wednesday/


"In Norway, the kindergartens will be open again next Monday , seven days later the first to fourth grades will follow in schools."

I think how this plays out will be fascinating. I think it's way to early to declare one right though. What happens when Denmark and Norway open back up? Will Sweden hit herd immunity much quicker?

[dantheman4248]

I hear you but you also need to understand that a lot of people don't have symptoms as bad as you did. Probably the majority don't.

Just gonna point out how lame of a mindset that is. Numbers are pulled strictly from my ass and not necessarily in relation to this disease.

"**** it if 2% die, and 13% have horrible symptoms; 85% of us didn't feel shit. We need our economy back. There's no alternative. We can't possibly tax the 1% or even the .1% more. You gotta think about how unfair that is to them to take away their hard earned dollar disproportionately."

[Dawgfan77]

We have way to ma y people pushing this fear porn out there. Yes the virous is bad if IF you have underlying health issues. Those as well as older people need to be quarantined. I agree with that. But we didn't shut down do to the FLU, H1N1, Ebola, and any other viral infectious diseases. Yet we have so much of the left and radical reds pushing so hard for us to shutdown because they don't like the man leading us. It's insane we need to stop living in fear. And we need to stop with the fear articles

[hacker]

We have way to ma y people pushing this fear porn out there. Yes the virous is bad if IF you have underlying health issues. Those as well as older people need to be quarantined. I agree with that. But we didn't shut down do to the FLU, H1N1, Ebola, and any other viral infectious diseases. Yet we have so much of the left and radical reds pushing so hard for us to shutdown because they don't like the man leading us. It's insane we need to stop living in fear. And we need to stop with the fear articles

Yes, the entire world has shut down because they don't like Trump. Norway, Singapore, Australia, Germany, UK, India, Thailand, just about every single country except for Sweden all hate Trump and have locked their people at home at shut down their economies because they don't like Trump.

Trump himself issued and then extended stay at home guidelines (although he has no power to shut down or reopen the states, regardless of what he's telling you). Does Trump not like the man leading us either? That must be it.

Or maybe, just maybe.. this virus might be worse than all of the others you mentioned and anything else we've seen in our lifetimes.

[hacker]

We have way to ma y people pushing this fear porn out there. Yes the virous is bad if IF you have underlying health issues. Those as well as older people need to be quarantined. I agree with that. But we didn't shut down do to the FLU, H1N1, Ebola, and any other viral infectious diseases. Yet we have so much of the left and radical reds pushing so hard for us to shutdown because they don't like the man leading us. It's insane we need to stop living in fear. And we need to stop with the fear articles

And if you actually look 5 posts above, a 37 year old on this board got the virus with no underlying conditions and has been out of work for 3 weeks.

[hacker]

I think how this plays out will be fascinating. I think it's way to early to declare one right though. What happens when Denmark and Norway open back up? Will Sweden hit herd immunity much quicker?

For sure. I'll keep updating either way, I'm curious to see how it plays out as well.

[Dawgfan77]

And if you actually look 5 posts above, a 37 year old on this board got the virus with no underlying conditions and has been out of work for 3 weeks.

I'm not convinced you can read though
Look did I say people wouldn't get sick? No! Have you had the flue ever??? Have you know people that have recovered from a viral infection?? What about people that died due to an infection? My mother died as a result of a viral infection. My father has underlying health issues. So yes I have a decent experience with both viral infection as well as a loved one with health issues. But I'm not going to live in fear
You and dan the man keep keep bringing fear porn over here and the reality of the situation isn't as bad as you and other want it to be.
BTW. Thanks for insulting my intelligence. I'm sure your a young buck and resort to this childish insults.

[hacker]

Look did I say people wouldn't get sick? No! Have you had the flue ever??? Have you know people that have recovered from a viral infection?? What about people that died due to an infection? My mother died as a result of a viral infection. My father has underlying health issues. So yes I have a decent experience with both viral infection as well as a loved one with health issues. But I'm not going to live in fear
You and dan the man keep keep bringing fear porn over here and the reality of the situation isn't as bad as you and other want it to be.
BTW. Thanks for insulting my intelligence. I'm sure your a young buck and resort to this childish insults.

I apologize for the insults. I removed it before your post but I guess you had already seen it and started to reply.

But tell me, what do you think happens if we have millions of people sick at once?

[Cooterpoot]

I think of myself as a heathy person and this virus has me out of work for a third straight week. Rushing back to work is only going to prolong the process. People need to relax and let this virus run its course.

Do you really want everyone to go back to work on May 1st and start the chaos all over again? This virus sucks..... it keeps us out of work..... but you don't want this thing. You don't want to sit up at night worrying about satisfying a deep breath..... or randomly get freezing cold and start shivering..... or having random diarrhea that hits you even if you haven't eaten in two days..... or being so lethargic that you can't get out of bed to even walk to the bathroom. Oh, and those are considered mild symptoms that last for a week and may or may not come back two weeks later when you think you're recovering. You don't want this shit. Stay the **** home and let this thing run its course.

All depends on the work we do. I'm lucky to be involved with things in demand right now. I think the first stage of reopening starts end of May. I've had something very similar to this before. That's part of why I'm high risk. Plus, I've got like 4 autoimmune issues. So, yeah, I'd have a hard time.

[Dawgfan77]

I apologize for the insults. I removed it before your post but I guess you had already seen it and started to reply.

But tell me, what do you think happens if we have millions of people sick at once?

I apologize for responding negatively
We are all dawgs here and want what's best for the country and our families so I do see both sides of the coin
To answer your question
I don't think we will have millions sick. I do think we will have millions carrying the virus just as we have millions carrying the flue and other diseases. We are fortunate however to live in a country unlike Italy and China as well as others that believe in hygiene. I also think that we will and some already have built in immune systems that the virus will eventually pass through the immune system with little to no problems. If you study the data it has no age specific of who and what it infects, however it ranges in seriousness from little to no symptoms to death. Out of those the highest percentage at risk are older people and those with underlying health issues. That's not to take away from anyone's loss no death is to small. Fortunately, like we have with other infectious diseases we already have and are still experimenting with treatments. Much like the common cold and influenza we won't ever have a cure for a viral infection but we have (hydrochlorquin) treatments which is really what we need. I know the conspiracy issues out there. People talk about vaccines. Well out of the known 350MM people in America only about 175MM actually took the flue shot this year. Meaning that roughly half the population didn't. So really is a vaccine really going to help? Maybe to calm the hysteria but still if you take the shot you still may het the flue. Happened to me in 2018. But the dr prescribed treatment but it wasnt a cure. The virus had to run its course. It was unfortunately part of life

My quick solution is to slowly open up the country starting with states that have not been hit hard. Those that don't want to work or go out well that's there choice just like it is every day. Those that are at a high risk continue working from home those that are infected quarantine for the two weeks
We have to start slowly but we need to start doing something or we will get complacent and never really recover.
No solution is perfect but I think it's time we stop living in fear.

[hacker]

I apologize for responding negatively
We are all dawgs here and want what's best for the country and our families so I do see both sides of the coin
To answer your question
I don't think we will have millions sick. I do think we will have millions carrying the virus just as we have millions carrying the flue and other diseases. We are fortunate however to live in a country unlike Italy and China as well as others that believe in hygiene. I also think that we will and some already have built in immune systems that the virus will eventually pass through the immune system with little to no problems. If you study the data it has no age specific of who and what it infects, however it ranges in seriousness from little to no symptoms to death. Out of those the highest percentage at risk are older people and those with underlying health issues. That's not to take away from anyone's loss no death is to small. Fortunately, like we have with other infectious diseases we already have and are still experimenting with treatments. Much like the common cold and influenza we won't ever have a cure for a viral infection but we have (hydrochlorquin) treatments which is really what we need. I know the conspiracy issues out there. People talk about vaccines. Well out of the known 350MM people in America only about 175MM actually took the flue shot this year. Meaning that roughly half the population didn't. So really is a vaccine really going to help? Maybe to calm the hysteria but still if you take the shot you still may het the flue. Happened to me in 2018. But the dr prescribed treatment but it wasnt a cure. The virus had to run its course. It was unfortunately part of life

My quick solution is to slowly open up the country starting with states that have not been hit hard. Those that don't want to work or go out well that's there choice just like it is every day. Those that are at a high risk continue working from home those that are infected quarantine for the two weeks
We have to start slowly but we need to start doing something or we will get complacent and never really recover.
No solution is perfect but I think it's time we stop living in fear.

I don't think we should be living in fear, but I think everyone should understand the reality of this virus:

- if you catch the virus and show symptoms, you have around a 1 in 100 chance of dying
- if you show symptoms but don't die, you have around a 1 in 5 chance of being hospitalized
- if you show symptoms but aren't hospitalized, it's still very likely to put you on your ass for a few weeks
- the virus is very contagious and is spread before people even know they have it
- less than 3% of the US population has caught the virus so far
- more than half of the hospitalizations in the US are for people under 60
- we do not have the testing infrastructure in place to detect and quarantine people before they spread it to others
- we are still quarantining infected at home, spreading it to their family members

Don't live in fear, but be smart and don't minimize this. Don't try to convince others that it's not bad because then they may make dumb decisions.

Yes, we need to figure out how to open the economy up. I don't think anyone thinks we should live like this forever. But we have to be smart and cautious and prepared first. Let's not just say "it's time to open up" without a plan because we're restless. We need a plan first.

[defiantdog]

I hear you but you also need to understand that a lot of people don't have symptoms as bad as you did. Probably the majority don't.
Based on what?

[dantheman4248]

Look did I say people wouldn't get sick? No! Have you had the flue ever??? Have you know people that have recovered from a viral infection?? What about people that died due to an infection? My mother died as a result of a viral infection. My father has underlying health issues. So yes I have a decent experience with both viral infection as well as a loved one with health issues. But I'm not going to live in fear
You and dan the man keep keep bringing fear porn over here and the reality of the situation isn't as bad as you and other want it to be.
BTW. Thanks for insulting my intelligence. I'm sure your a young buck and resort to this childish insults.

The fact that you say hacker is bringing fear porn shows you're not actually reading his posts. Dude has been consistent about the numbers. I'm not going to insult your intelligence and say you can't read. I'm just gonna point out the obvious, you aren't reading. You've decided everything that I say is "fear porn."

Newsflash, I'm just being a fair critic of President Pinocchio. This dude is about to try to get sports to make people want to "reopen the economy." It's sickening to keep seeing this mindset as that is the only solution to help the poor man who can't work. It's pathetically selfish to believe that if someone can't work then they don't deserve shelter and food. That's the root of the UBI argument and we have so many in this country that believe that they'd be rewarding laziness or whatever like that matters. Newsflash... UBI would be enough to cover the necessities. Doing activities would require extra income. As we can tell right now, no one likes this quarantine crap. Living like this SUCKS. Do you think people would be content with this life?

It's crazy to me that we're willing to bailout all these businesses with taxpayer $$ on a whim because we can't have them failing; however, we refuse to create a minimum for people to survive on. Can't let businesses fail because then people will fail. But we can't prevent people from failing because that's socialism. ...

[Todd4State]

Based on what?

The patients I see where I work.

[defiantdog]

The patients I see where I work.
Where do you work? And I'm not saying this is killing millions of people, but I am saying it doesn't go away like the flu does. It lingers. I have an admin assistant whose 27 and a health nut and she's going on 2 weeks now out of work.

[BeardoMSU]

For you "but the flu!!" peeps...

https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/not-like-the-flu-not-like-car-crashes-not-like

[BeardoMSU]

The patients I see where I work.

The DMV?***





(jk, obviously)

[Jack Lambert]

Like I said in another thread. I just want a Cold Sweet Watermelon.

[SheltonChoked]

I hear you but you also need to understand that a lot of people don't have symptoms as bad as you did. Probably the majority don't.

You are making this up.

Defiant had a mild case. i.e., he did not get hospitalized.

Open back up too soon, and we wasted everything done until now...

BTW, are you willing to sign a DNR to go back to work? For your whole family?

[Gutter Cobreh]

The fact that you say hacker is bringing fear porn shows you're not actually reading his posts. Dude has been consistent about the numbers. I'm not going to insult your intelligence and say you can't read. I'm just gonna point out the obvious, you aren't reading. You've decided everything that I say is "fear porn."

Newsflash, I'm just being a fair critic of President Pinocchio. This dude is about to try to get sports to make people want to "reopen the economy." It's sickening to keep seeing this mindset as that is the only solution to help the poor man who can't work. It's pathetically selfish to believe that if someone can't work then they don't deserve shelter and food. That's the root of the UBI argument and we have so many in this country that believe that they'd be rewarding laziness or whatever like that matters. Newsflash... UBI would be enough to cover the necessities. Doing activities would require extra income. As we can tell right now, no one likes this quarantine crap. Living like this SUCKS. Do you think people would be content with this life?

It's crazy to me that we're willing to bailout all these businesses with taxpayer $$ on a whim because we can't have them failing; however, we refuse to create a minimum for people to survive on. Can't let businesses fail because then people will fail. But we can't prevent people from failing because that's socialism. ...

You can not take from one and give to another and expect everyone's hardships to be solved. UBI is not a solution to the problem.

I can guarantee you that you won't see unemployment drop until September at the earliest, regardless of how quickly the economy rebounds. The reason is because the coronavirus stimulus package pays people a weekly payment equal to one-half of the state average unemployment benefit plus $600. You really think people are going to give that up to go back to work to earn less money????

[Commercecomet24]

I don't have the answers and no one on here has the answers. Our country is hurting, from the virus, families and businesses from the loss of income, the fear of getting sick, the fear of losing everything. It's just awful to see what's happening. This is one of the hardest things I've ever watched our country go through. I feel blessed that I don't live in fear because of my faith, but I understand and hurt for those that are suffering. I have 4 children. My oldest son was supposed to graduate from USM this spring, my oldest daughter is a junior at USM, my youngest son is a senior at West Jones and was scheduled to take a several recruiting visits during the week of spring break to decide which college to commit to, as well as missing out on all hs senior memories, my youngest daughter has juvenile arthritis and is on biologics so she has a compromised immune system, so we have to be extremely careful with her.. All their lives have been turned upside down so I certainly understand what's happening to most families around the country. Though all of us don't have the same views on how this is going, I hope and pray for the best for each of you. Americans have always pulled together through times of crisis and I'm seeing and hearing acts of sacrifice and kindness each day. I hope the leadership of our country can put aside their own partisan views and help our country recover from this, in the same way I'm watching everyday Americancs pull together. After the storms ripped through Jones county this past sunday, I saw people drop whatever they were doing and immediatley rush to the aid of their neighbors. It's gonna take time for things to return to some semblance of normalcy and for our country to heal. I pray that day is sooner rather than later. I hope and pray each of you come through on the other side of this with your lives, both physically and temporally intact.

[Commercecomet24]

Like I said in another thread. I just want a Cold Sweet Watermelon.

Me too, Jack!

[Jarius]

You are making this up.

Defiant had a mild case. i.e., he did not get hospitalized.

Open back up too soon, and we wasted everything done until now...

BTW, are you willing to sign a DNR to go back to work? For your whole family?

You apparently don't realize why we shut down. We didn't shut down to stop this. Are you willing to lose your job and your wife lose her job and go to section 8 housing and live like a 3rd world country and not be able to feed your kids? Because I'm a lot more scared of that then I am having the shits and a cough and shortness of breath and a fever for a few days or weeks.

[Dolphus Raymond]

Today in Mississippi, we have 273 new cases and 11 deaths. Any talk about ?re-opening ? Mississippi in the near future is a pipe dream. Accept that fact and drive on.

[hacker]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVla8ZeWAAQFuTm?format=jpg&name=large

[Todd4State]

Where do you work? And I'm not saying this is killing millions of people, but I am saying it doesn't go away like the flu does. It lingers. I have an admin assistant whose 27 and a health nut and she's going on 2 weeks now out of work.

A major hospital.

Some people do have worse symptoms than others. No question about that. But based on what I'm seeing at work plus other people I know that have it that haven't been hospitalized I think you had a case more on the worse end.

[Todd4State]

You are making this up.

Defiant had a mild case. i.e., he did not get hospitalized.

Open back up too soon, and we wasted everything done until now...

BTW, are you willing to sign a DNR to go back to work? For your whole family?

LOL.

And hell yes. Of course I'm working anyway.

[starkvegasdawg]

You apparently don't realize why we shut down. We didn't shut down to stop this. Are you willing to lose your job and your wife lose her job and go to section 8 housing and live like a 3rd world country and not be able to feed your kids? Because I'm a lot more scared of that then I am having the shits and a cough and shortness of breath and a fever for a few days or weeks.

Thing is we really haven't shut down. Drive through your town. How much is open compared to how much closed. If we had truly done a much more substantial shutdown a month ago for 2-3 weeks we might have gotten on top of this by now. Those 2-3 weeks would have hurt but we would probably be starting to return to normal now. But this piece meal half assed approach is doing nothing but causing economic pain and the illness pain to be drug out.

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

Thing is we really haven't shut down. Drive through your town. How much is open compared to how much closed. If we had truly done a much more substantial shutdown a month ago for 2-3 weeks we might have gotten on top of this by now. Those 2-3 weeks would have hurt but we would probably be starting to return to normal now. But this piece meal half assed approach is doing nothing but causing economic pain and the illness pain to be drug out.

I think the monstrous spike in unemployment numbers disagrees with this statement.

[Dawgology]

https://www.laboratoryequipment.com/563201-COVID-19-Treatment-Update-Remdesivir-Hydroxychloroquine-Leronlimab-Ivermectin-and-More/

Here is a good rundown of what all is going on in regards to Covid-19 clinical trials and treatment options for those interested. This is a digital magazine we receive at our lab about once a week. Reliable source, referenced material.

[Dawg2003]

Today in Mississippi, we have 273 new cases and 11 deaths. Any talk about ?re-opening ? Mississippi in the near future is a pipe dream. Accept that fact and drive on.

Our peak was projected for April 21 a few weeks ago, so I don't see us opening back up right now.

[Commercecomet24]

I think the monstrous spike in unemployment numbers disagrees with this statement.

Yes, unfortunately. Some businesses have already shuttered for good and won't be coming back and I expect we see many more in the coming weeks. Sad.

[msstate7]

Our peak was projected for April 21 a few weeks ago, so I don't see us opening back up right now.

And we shouldn't, but I'm very much against the ones that think we should stay shut down till a vaccine is created. We have to open back up most of the country probably sometime in May

[BrunswickDawg]

You can not take from one and give to another and expect everyone's hardships to be solved. UBI is not a solution to the problem.

I can guarantee you that you won't see unemployment drop until September at the earliest, regardless of how quickly the economy rebounds. The reason is because the coronavirus stimulus package pays people a weekly payment equal to one-half of the state average unemployment benefit plus $600. You really think people are going to give that up to go back to work to earn less money????

I think it says a lot more about how we treat our workforce and a lot about who we "think" has been impacted. The thing is the people who are unemployed by this aren't just the minimum wage workforce - a whole lot of them are still are flipping burgers, stocking shelves, cleaning stores, and cutting grass. It's people like my wife - a massage therapist and yoga studio owner - who makes about $50k a year. That job literally evaporated overnight a month ago. So, her job, her 15 instructors, and the 3 other therapists are the ones claiming UI right now because they are all independent contractors who "share" this business as a co-op. Not a single one has gotten a UI check yet - because Georgia is still trying to figure this out (oh, and the money didn't actually become available until this week). Still waiting on UI, still waiting on EIPL, still waiting on PPP. And that is a lot like a shit ton of people who are unemployed right now. You got a whole lot of independent contractors, gig workers, commission sales people, who are the ones not working because of this.

[starkvegasdawg]

I think the monstrous spike in unemployment numbers disagrees with this statement.

I never said a lot of people aren't out of work. They are. But compared to the number they have been deemed essential, it is a drop in the bucket. Just drive through town and look at how many places are still open.

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

And we shouldn't, but I'm very much against the ones that think we should stay shut down till a vaccine is created. We have to open back up most of the country probably sometime in May

It seems like a pipe dream to me that we will have a safe and effective vaccine made within the next 18 months. Let alone be able to mass produce it on a level that we can vaccinate a significant amount of the population with it.

[Dawgfan77]

I never said a lot of people aren't out of work. They are. But compared to the number they have been deemed essential, it is a drop in the bucket. Just drive through town and look at how many places are still open.

You might be a little out of touch in this one. Some places maybe be open. Like restaurants for take out only. Well what about the wait staff and bartenders? Some essential business are open but have to cut workers due to cost as business is down.
Don't just look at what's open look beyond the doors

[Commercecomet24]

You might be a little out of touch in this one. Some places maybe be open. Like restaurants for take out only. Well what about the wait staff and bartenders? Some essential business are open but have to cut workers due to cost as business is down.
Don't just look at what's open look beyond the doors

Yeah, businesses may be open but they've cut back on staff, laid off and/are running small crews with reduced hours and are not doing near the business. It's why businesses are losing millions upon millions of dollars each day.

[Todd4State]

It seems like a pipe dream to me that we will have a safe and effective vaccine made within the next 18 months. Let alone be able to mass produce it on a level that we can vaccinate a significant amount of the population with it.

By the time there is one it will probably be useless.

[hacker]

I never said a lot of people aren't out of work. They are. But compared to the number they have been deemed essential, it is a drop in the bucket. Just drive through town and look at how many places are still open.

I wouldn't be able to tell the difference in my area if I didn't know better.

[starkvegasdawg]

I wouldn't be able to tell the difference in my area if I didn't know better.
That's the point I'm trying to make. For those that disagree with this do me a favor next time you're out. Doesn't matter what town you live in. Next time you're going somewhere if you didn't know there was a SIP order due to a horrible disease wreaking havoc, would you be able to tell anything was amiss or would it just look like a typical Wednesday with people going about their normal routines? If there was a true SIP order that had enough teeth behind it to help contain this outbreak, you'd drive into town and it'd look like a Children of the Corn scene wondering where everybody is.

[Commercecomet24]

I wouldn't be able to tell the difference in my area if I didn't know better.

Maybe where y'all live but not here. There's a substantial difference.

[Dawgfan77]

That's the point I'm trying to make. For those that disagree with this do me a favor next time you're out. Doesn't matter what town you live in. Next time you're going somewhere if you didn't know there was a SIP order due to a horrible disease wreaking havoc, would you be able to tell anything was amiss or would it just look like a typical Wednesday with people going about their normal routines? If there was a true SIP order that had enough teeth behind it to help contain this outbreak, you'd drive into town and it'd look like a Children of the Corn scene wondering where everybody is.
When you drive by a restaurant a movie theater what a hotel and staff. I see a lot of issues

[starkvegasdawg]

Maybe where y'all live but not here. There's a substantial difference.

I know here in Starkville you can't tell a difference.

[Commercecomet24]

I know here in Starkville you can't tell a difference.

You can here. Parking lots empty, traffic down, business laying people off, shuttered for good, reduced staff and hours and it's a fact, and it's not just here. Why do you think businesses are losing money right now? Only one reason, no business!

[Prediction? Pain.]

A few days back in another thread, I linked to an article from the MIT Technology Review about the "reopening" of the US economy from the perspective of prominent economists. The premise of the article was that choosing between economic viability and human life is a false choice. The two are inextricably intertwined and putting one above the other would lead to ruinous results. Here's the link again if anyone's interested:

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/08/998785/stop-covid-or-save-the-economy-we-can-do-both/

The gist of the author's argument is that the most prudent path forward is to implement a robust, national test-and-trace system that, coupled with other remedial measures, will allow the health to work and the sick to be immediately isolated.

That aggressive test-and-trace approach is part of what has made Taiwan such a success story so far. If you haven't read up on Taiwan, here's an article from the Journal of the American Medical Association (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2762689) that gives a summary of its efforts and here's a 7-minute news clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAaDC0lv13s) about the same thing, both of which are from March.

With a population of over 23,000,000 -- millions of which take the 80-mile trip to and from China regularly and repeatedly -- and a population density that is top ten in the world and would rank 1st among US states, Taiwan to date has only 395 cases of COVID 19 and 6 deaths. They've had between zero and five new cases each day for the past week. For a democracy with a relatively solid, modern economy, that's pretty damn impressive.

But just for a comparison, let's look at some states in the US. New Jersey, which has the largest population density of any state in the US (though it's still lower than Taiwan's) and less than half of Taiwan's total population, has had nearly 69,000 COVID-19 cases and 2,805 deaths. My state of Tennessee has one-tenth the population density of Taiwan and less than a third of Taiwan's population and we've got more than 10 times the cases (5,823) and 20 times the deaths (124). Hell, my county alone has nearly twice as many deaths as the entire country of Taiwan with only 370,000 people and a population density less than half of Taiwan's.

The trace-and-test thing is something that healthcare people are pushing for too, at least in Tennessee. Vandy's Medical Center (https://news.vumc.org/2020/04/09/vanderbilt-health-policy-covid-19-model-finds-evidence-of-flattening-curve-recommends-distancing-policies-continue/) put out a short piece a week or so ago about the flattening of the curve and the potential dangerous of going back to normal without a much more robust system of testing and tracing in the state.

Another interesting tidbit from the MIT article was about some economists' study of the 1918 flu pandemic's economic consequences. I haven't read the entire study (https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=7521231120860661161080690020900700 23006042023048070022113019027098094066101123083089 05403003410300803809611903008210211208210812607107 50540311001150640050240250200900850790180850030070 03104067087125109091029024070103103064027011023115 120121001007111065&EXT=pdf) (it's 50 pages long), but here are the two main conclusions from the study and a little more insight from the MIT article:


First, the pandemic leads to a sharp and persistent fall in real economic activity. We find negative effects on manufacturing activity, the stock of durable goods, and bank assets, which suggests that the pandemic depresses economic activity through both supply and demand-side effects. Second, cities that implemented more rapid and forceful non-pharmaceutical health interventions [like business and school closures] do not experience worse downturns. In contrast, evidence on manufacturing activity and bank assets suggests that the economy performed better in areas with more aggressive non-pharmaceutical interventions after the pandemic.


Verner [one of the authors of the study] points to the fates of two cities in particular: Cleveland and Philadelphia. Cleveland acted aggressively, closing schools and banning gatherings early in the outbreak and keeping the restrictions in place for far longer. Philadelphia was slower to react and maintained restrictions for about half as long. Not only did far fewer people die in Cleveland (600 per 100,000, compared with 900 per 100,000 in Philadelphia), but its economy fared better and was much stronger in the year after the outbreak. By 1919 job growth was 5% there, while in Philadelphia it was around 2%.

Today's economy is much different -- it's geared more toward services, and far less toward manufacturing than it was 100 years ago. Nevertheless, the cities' stories are suggestive. Verner says that even a conservative interpretation of the data suggests there is "no evidence that interventions are worse for the economy." And most likely they had a significant benefit. "A pandemic is so destructive," he says. "Ultimately any policy to mitigate it is going to be good for the economy."

Sorry for the length of the post. I was encouraged to hear people that have forgotten a crap-ton more than economics than I'll ever know talk about economic and physical health as two sides of the same coin instead of mutually exclusive. Figured some of y'all might, too.

[confucius say]

I know here in Starkville you can't tell a difference.

Maybe it is a good thing that people are still kind of out. If the goal is to just spread out when people come into contact with the virus (as opposed to stopping completely the spread of the virus), maybe it is helpful that people are gradually coming into contact with it.

[BrunswickDawg]

I know here in Starkville you can't tell a difference.

So you can't tell that 20,000 students aren't in town? I call BS on that one

[BrunswickDawg]

You can here. Parking lots empty, traffic down, business laying people off, shuttered for good, reduced staff and hours and it's a fact, and it's not just here. Why do you think businesses are losing money right now? Only one reason, no business!

It probably depends where you live. We would be in peak tourist season here - it's dead. Most of the hotels have closed. When I have had to go into the office, traffic is noticeably less. There is still activity - but you can tell its maybe running at 1/4 normal right now. I last put gas in my car on March 10th.

[Commercecomet24]

It probably depends where you live. We would be in peak tourist season here - it's dead. Most of the hotels have closed. When I have had to go into the office, traffic is noticeably less. There is still activity - but you can tell its maybe running at 1/4 normal right now. I last put gas in my car on March 10th.

Yes, this is reasonable and that's the last time I put gas in my car too lol! I'm used to traveling and i've been in the office for a month now and my gas bill has gone way down lol! That being said I've lived and run a business in Laurel/Jones County for a long time and know most of the business owners here. Outside of Walmart, Lowes and Sonic most business owners I've talked to are down over 50% and climbing since this thing started. That's not just looking at it and saying "well I can't tell a difference here", it's a fact. That's not sustainable for very long at all. Some have shuttered for good already, and I'm sure the same scenario is playing out all over the country. I don't have the answers but I do know it's a fact if something doesn't give soon the virus won't devastate near as many families as the economic disaster.

[starkvegasdawg]

So you can't tell that 20,000 students aren't in town? I call BS on that one

I drive by college apartments everyday and the parking lots are still 3/4 full. Traffic on 12 is still busy as ever. So it's still at a minimum no different than Christmas break or over the summer. There are still college kids here. Maybe it's just because they're all stuck in their apartment lease and staying because of that. I don't know. But I'm telling you there is barely any perceptible difference in activity in this town now compared to January.