WR corps

[Madisonmd]

Is anyone else worried about our talent level at WR? Hate to enter season depending on a lot of newcomers

[BiscuitEater]

Think we just signed some potentially good receivers; way more than we lost due to graduation.

Could get additional WR help through the portal.

[Todd4State]

No. I trust Leach. For now. I'm actually happy to see Payton catching tennis balls.

[HoopsDawg]

Yes. Very worried. Look pretty good at the other 7 spots.

[Todd4State]

Well it's not like Washington State was bringing in 5 star guys left and right. We probably have more four stars at receiver now than they did the past few years. I think our problems at receiver were the same as the rest of the team. Poor coaching, not enough attention to detail and a lack of accountability.

Also Costello is a better QB than what we had last year.

[klong-dog]

Mitchell, Payton, Williams, Heath, Torbor.... our top 5 right now?

[HoopsDawg]

Mitchell, Payton, Williams, Heath, Torbor.... our top 5 right now?

Whew, I guess. I think Tulu will have to play. He's probably the fastest on the roster. Ducking probably won't redshirt now. Need to get lucky with someone in the portal.

[Cooterpoot]

Everybody is basically a newcomer this year. But give me anyone new over the older guys.

[Hot Rock]

Do not sleep on the talent at WR that is there. I say these guys are way better than we thought with proper training and execution.

[HoopsDawg]

[QUOTE=Hot Rock;1230426]Do not sleep on the talent at WR that is there. I say these guys are way better than we thought with proper training

Nm

[Todd4State]

Do not sleep on the talent at WR that is there. I say these guys are way better than we thought with proper training and execution.

If we have 7-8 guys with 500 yards or so apiece I'll be happy with that. That's about what happened at Wazzu. Tulu is probably going to play slot receiver so the few that think that he's going to play CB on other boards can forget that. We also had either a freshman QB or a QB that was hurt last year. I think Costello will help us some. I do like how Leach wants older QB's.

And obviously I agree with you about the training. Leach is not going to let a guy like a Guidry drop pass after pass and still play him. Payton should have started over him last year. We will throw it deep some but we'll also have some shorter routes built in a lot as well. Those are typically higher percentage catch and throws.

[Todd4State]

Mitchell, Payton, Williams, Heath, Torbor.... our top 5 right now?

My top five would be:

Mitchell and Heath on the outside.

Payton, Austin Williams in the slot and Dontae Jones at the Y.

If someone can't get it done like Williams- roll out Tulu, Walley, and Harvey.

I'm excited to see what Leach does with Caleb Ducking. Played in a triple option scheme in JUCO but has really good measurables. I think he has a good chance of being a "where did they find this guy?" type of player.

[Hot Rock]

Am I saying we beating Bama this year or challenge for the west? No!

I am saying the focus and prep time they put into the WR’s will get the best out of them and they can be way better than they have shown.

Do we need another transfer? Sure, but these WR’s are not talentless. I think Gardner will be one to break out this year myself.

[Todd4State]

Am I saying we beating Bama this year or challenge for the west? No!

I am saying the focus and prep time they put into the WR’s will get the best out of them and they can be way better than they have shown.

Do we need another transfer? Sure, but these WR’s are not talentless. I think Gardner will be one to break out this year myself.

I agree. I think people are going to be really surprised at the difference between last year and this year. Personally I'm a big believer in S&C and outworking people. I think that can maximize the talent that we have. And that's something that was missing under Joe. And like you said that's probably not enough to beat Alabama on the road but it's probably enough to where we can go in there and give them a heck of a battle and have a chance to win and be respectable.

[CadaverDawg]

I'm not too worried about WR, because even with what we call a "lack of talent and depth at the position", Leach calls it the mostly highly touted WR room he's ever coached. I'm far more worried about the fact that Leach only calls a handful of plays, and they rarely worked against above average defenses, and that's what he will be facing most weeks. Will he adjust, or will we continue to run the same 5-10 plays all year? I am also more worried about our defense stopping people than I am our WR's. If there are two things that I will never worry about with Leach as our coach, it's having a QB that can throw and WR's that can catch.

[Todd4State]

I'm not too worried about WR, because even with what we call a "lack of talent and depth at the position", Leach calls it the mostly highly touted WR room he's ever coached. I'm far more worried about the fact that Leach only calls a handful of plays, and they rarely worked against above average defenses, and that's what he will be facing most weeks. Will he adjust, or will we continue to run the same 5-10 plays all year? I am also more worried about our defense stopping people than I am our WR's. If there are two things that I will never worry about with Leach as our coach, it's having a QB that can throw and WR's that can catch.

I can tell you right now he's going to run the same things that he always has. I don't know why he would deviate from what he knows. Four verticals, mesh, Y-sail, Y-cross, Y-stick, double slants, all curls, H-wheel, shakes, bubble screens, RB screen, shovel pass, and then outside/inside zone and that wrap run where the guard pulls almost like a trap but the guard becomes the lead blocker. We're going to rep the hell out of it and be able to run those plays in our sleep. It's like Remember the Titans except the offense is passing.

I think the defense will be fine too. It depends on the JUCO's coming in and how quickly they can adjust. I think Errol will have a BIG year for us and I'm glad he is back. Having Marcus Murphy the whole year will help the secondary out a lot too. I like moving Jarrian Jones to safety and I'm excited about Tyrus Wheat and Jordan Davis.

[Doggie_Style]

My top five would be:

Mitchell and Heath on the outside.

Payton, Austin Williams in the slot and Dontae Jones at the Y.

If someone can't get it done like Williams- roll out Tulu, Walley, and Harvey.

I'm excited to see what Leach does with Caleb Ducking. Played in a triple option scheme in JUCO but has really good measurables. I think he has a good chance of being a "where did they find this guy?" type of player.

The problem with Ducking is he crapped the bed on his academics and won?t arrive until summer. He might as well RS now or waste 1 of his 2 years of eligibility....he won?t be ready this fall.

[Cooterpoot]

Do not sleep on the talent at WR that is there. I say these guys are way better than we thought with proper training and execution.

You're wrong. They're slow and lack skill. Leach can't make them good.

[BorneDawg]

You're wrong. They're slow and lack skill. Leach can't make them good.

You forgot the ***********

[Johnson85]

I'm not too worried about WR, because even with what we call a "lack of talent and depth at the position", Leach calls it the mostly highly touted WR room he's ever coached. I'm far more worried about the fact that Leach only calls a handful of plays, and they rarely worked against above average defenses, and that's what he will be facing most weeks. Will he adjust, or will we continue to run the same 5-10 plays all year? I am also more worried about our defense stopping people than I am our WR's. If there are two things that I will never worry about with Leach as our coach, it's having a QB that can throw and WR's that can catch.

1.) He's onlly going to run those same handful of plays. Part of his deal is getting the repetition to execute them, so he's not going to suddenly triple the number of plays we run.

2.) Leach's offense has rarely worked against defenses that were much more talented than his offense. That's not limited to his system.

3) Honestly what is more important for us right now is moving the ball against teams that don't out talent us. If we can do that, we will be competitive in 9-10 games a season and should be able to comfortably win 6-8 every year. That's not the ultimate goal, but it's hard to get back to competitiveness once you run off the rails, so it's very important for us to keep our floor elevated.

[MedDawg]

I can tell you right now he's going to run the same things that he always has. I don't know why he would deviate from what he knows. Four verticals, mesh, Y-sail, Y-cross, Y-stick, double slants, all curls, H-wheel, shakes, bubble screens, RB screen, shovel pass, and then outside/inside zone and that wrap run where the guard pulls almost like a trap but the guard becomes the lead blocker. We're going to rep the hell out of it and be able to run those plays in our sleep. It's like Remember the Titans except the offense is passing.


And we have Sunshine from California on the way, too

[ArrowDawg]

And we have Sunshine from California on the way, too

If Leach doesn't at least draw up a "Fake 23 Blast with a Backside George Reverse" in our playbook, I won't be happy.

[Pipedream]

1.) He's onlly going to run those same handful of plays. Part of his deal is getting the repetition to execute them, so he's not going to suddenly triple the number of plays we run.

2.) Leach's offense has rarely worked against defenses that were much more talented than his offense. That's not limited to his system.

3) Honestly what is more important for us right now is moving the ball against teams that don't out talent us. If we can do that, we will be competitive in 9-10 games a season and should be able to comfortably win 6-8 every year. That's not the ultimate goal, but it's hard to get back to competitiveness once you run off the rails, so it's very important for us to keep our floor elevated.

I'm going to need you to show your work on bullet point number 2 there. How are you defining "worked"? Because he routinely hangs 30+ on teams that are "much more talented than his offense". That statement is actually the opposite of what his resume shows. He routinely scores points (30+) on more talented teams. He also beats them more often on than any team in the Pac 12. According to @WestCoastCFB, WSU won 17 games over the past 3 seasons against "more talented teams" (based on 247 sports team talent composite). That's first in the Pac12 and 7 more than the nearest school.

ETA: Against the 5 most talented (per 247) teams in Pac 12, here are what his offenses averaged during his WSU tenure: UCLA-39, Oregon-37, Stanford-29, USC 23, Washington 16. Washington was really the only team that gave him any problems.

[Cooterpoot]

You forgot the ***********

No I didn't. We had the least talented WRs in the SEC and near the bottom of P5. Leach is going to make those guys great. We've got better talent coming in than is on the roster (excluding redshirts).

[BrunswickDawg]

I'm going to need you to show your work on bullet point number 2 there. How are you defining "worked"? Because he routinely hangs 30+ on teams that are "much more talented than his offense". That statement is actually the opposite of what his resume shows. He routinely scores points (30+) on more talented teams. He also beats them more often on than any team in the Pac 12. According to @WestCoastCFB, WSU won 17 games over the past 3 seasons against "more talented teams" (based on 247 sports team talent composite). That's first in the Pac12 and 7 more than the nearest school.

ETA: Against the 5 most talented (per 247) teams in Pac 12, here are what his offenses averaged during his WSU tenure: UCLA-39, Oregon-37, Stanford-29, USC 23, Washington 16. Washington was really the only team that gave him any problems.

And even if you go back to the UK team, he showed he could go toe to toe with top defenses.
The 1998 UK team results:
W - Louisville (108th scoring d, 36 ppga avg) - 68 pts
W - Indiana (66, 28) - 31 pts
L - @ #8 Florida (8, 14) - 35 pts
L - @ #20 Arkansas (19, 20) - 20 pts
W- So Car (87, 30) - 33 pts
W- @ #21 LSU (31, 25) - 39 pts
L - UGA (17, 19) - 26 pts
W - MSU (24, 20) - 37 pts (SEC W Champ)
W - Vandy (103, 34) - 55 pts
L - #1 Tenn (8, 14.5) - 21 pts
L - #22 PSU (10, 15) - 14 pts

So, in a 7-5 season, with UK's completely outmatched roster, they scored at a rate higher than average on all but 1 team when facing a schedule with 6 Top 25 scoring D's.
For Leach it's going to be all about what our defense can do. If our defenses perform like they have the last decade (average #39 scoring D since '09) - we are going to be very, very, pleased with our outcomes.

[Pipedream]

And even if you go back to the UK team, he showed he could go toe to toe with top defenses.
The 1998 UK team results:
W - Louisville (108th scoring d, 36 ppga avg) - 68 pts
W - Indiana (66, 28) - 31 pts
L - @ #8 Florida (8, 14) - 35 pts
L - @ #20 Arkansas (19, 20) - 20 pts
W- So Car (87, 30) - 33 pts
W- @ #21 LSU (31, 25) - 39 pts
L - UGA (17, 19) - 26 pts
W - MSU (24, 20) - 37 pts (SEC W Champ)
W - Vandy (103, 34) - 55 pts
L - #1 Tenn (8, 14.5) - 21 pts
L - #22 PSU (10, 15) - 14 pts

So, in a 7-5 season, with UK's completely outmatched roster, they scored at a rate higher than average on all but 1 team when facing a schedule with 6 Top 25 scoring D's.
For Leach it's going to be all about what our defense can do. If our defenses perform like they have the last decade (average #39 scoring D since '09) - we are going to be very, very, pleased with our outcomes.

Correct, so at UK, they played 11 ranked teams in the two years as OC there in 97-98. They averaged 28/game. In the late 90's, that was a ton of point.

From 00-09, here's what TT averaged against the 5 most talented B12 teams on their schedule- Oklahoma St-40, TX A&M-35, Nebraska-34, Texas-28, Oklahoma-22. Oklahoma was the only team that gave him any problems and he still won 3/10 vs them. We haven't beaten Bama (the OU equivalent in the B12) in 13 seasons. I'll gladly take 3/10 against the best team in the conference.

[Jack Lambert]

Mitchell, Payton, Williams, Heath, Torbor.... our top 5 right now?

Talking to a Con-USA ref who also calls JUCO football said they he has seen Heath on the field and said that he is the real deal.

[ShotgunDawg]

I think the WRs will be better this year than they have been in a long time for two reasons:

1. They'll play faster in Leach's simple offense
2. They'll have rhythm with the QB & confidence due to catching so many balls & also knowing they'll have more thrown their way even if they drop one. Creates less pressure.

They'll be significantly better, but leave us wondering how good we could be with better WRs

[Hot Rock]

I think the WRs will be better this year than they have been in a long time for two reasons:

1. They'll play faster in Leach's simple offense
2. They'll have rhythm with the QB & confidence due to catching so many balls & also knowing they'll have more thrown their way even if they drop one. Creates less pressure.

They'll be significantly better, but leave us wondering how good we could be with better WRs

I can agree with this post but I may add: This next year's group of WR's will be better than we ever thought they could. We also know they can get even better with improved talent. That is a Win-Win for me. Win more now and give even more HOPE for the future. What else can you want from a coaching chagne?

[Dawgface]

Nope...not worried about it. Not expecting great results but not expecting the worst either. First year under a new coach you just hope for the best. Takes time to get everything in place.