Why are we so excited about Strong as potential DC?

[Irondawg]

His USF team got worse every year he was there and his defense was giving up a ton of points to the better offenses in the league.

I know he was good once but I don?t see much lately that makes me feel great. He was top 50 in sacks and top 10 in tackles for loss so was his secondary worse than ours as they didn?t make top 50 total defense.

I?d be curious about Randy Shannon at UCF or David Reeves at UAB or even Tim Billings at USM

[Cowbell]

I don't think people realize how good Shoop is. We had the number one defense in the country with an offense that literally couldn't get out if it's own way. The only thing they were helped by is joe running down every play clock to the final second.

[Cowbell]

If leach let's go of shoop, it very well could be his first mistake

[MarketingBully]

Because he’s probably one of the top five DCs in the business and he fits Leach’s offense as a DC? The last time he was a DC he was at Florida and won a national championship there in 2008?

[dawgday166]

I thought Shoop's 2018 D might pack it in later in games as season progressed because of Joe's inept offense, but they never did. That was very impressive to me.

[Behrdawg]

I don't think people realize how good Shoop is. We had the number one defense in the country with an offense that literally couldn't get out if it's own way. The only thing they were helped by is joe running down every play clock to the final second.

Anyone with an ounce of knowledge on defensive schemes and management paired with three 1st round draft picks could have a stud defense. Sorry, but that plays a huge factor. I don't think we've seen a full view of Shoops ability.

[MarketingBully]

If leach let's go of shoop, it very well could be his first mistake

Have you seen Leach’s coaching tree and his knack to find coaches? I think you should look that up. The guy knows what he’s doing. We will be fine with whatever he does.

[dawgday166]

Anyone with an ounce of knowledge on defensive schemes and management paired with three 1st round draft picks could have a stud defense. Sorry, but that plays a huge factor. I don't think we've seen a full view of Shoops ability.

Sure ... but not #1 necessarily. Clemson under Venebles and Kirby under Saban did what Shoop did that year. Anyone else?? Are Venebles & Kirby just so-so D coordinators? Not in my mind. Aranda ain't producing top 10 Ds with LSU's talent.

[dawgday166]

Have you seen Leach’s coaching tree and his knack to find coaches? I think you should look that up. The guy knows what he’s doing. We will be fine with whatever he does.

I tend to agree and that's where I'm at now. Still a little concerned tho cause of availability and getting coaches to come to Vegas.

[dawgday166]

Really what probably helped Shoop on 2018 D more that 3 1st round picks ... the depth of the D line. We had a very deep D line that year. Could keep folks fresh in games.

[chef dixon]

Because he will be drawing interest from defensive studs in recruiting. It's simple really.

[Coursesuper]

Look it's actually very simple, the offensive side of the ball is going to be all Leaches guys, they know him and his system so on the defensive side of the ball he is going to hire high quality guys that know the lay of the land recruiting in and around Mississippi. Y'all are thinking way to hard.

[MarketingBully]

I tend to agree and that's where I'm at now. Still a little concerned tho cause of availability and getting coaches to come to Vegas.

We will be fine. He will surround himself with people who he can be successful with here. I think the criticisms and skepticisms although on the surface I get but when you dig a bit deeper are unfounded.

[basedog]

I like our young guys who played inside this past year, looks promising regardless who the DC may be. I have no problem with Shoop, he has Sec experience and now understands our culture, hope he is retained.

[msstate7]

To be honest, I've never really paid attention to leach defenses. Does he like an attacking style or more bend but don't break?

[dawgday166]

To be honest, I've never really paid attention to leach defenses. Does he like an attacking style or more bend but don't break?

He's had a little of both I think but his philosophy is attacking I believe (on both sides of the ball). They got rid of one DC at WSU and hired an attacking DC if I recall what I read correctly.

I've been reading and watching so much it's all starting to run together some LOL.

[Spiderman]

I like our young guys who played inside this past year, looks promising regardless who the DC may be. I have no problem with Shoop, he has Sec experience and now understands our culture, hope he is retained.

LB is gonna be a BIG concern

[R2Dawg]

I thought Shoop's 2018 D might pack it in later in games as season progressed because of Joe's inept offense, but they never did. That was very impressive to me.

Not saying Shoop wasn't part of it because I don't know but I do know that the team leaders on that side of the ball were not going to let that happen.

[R2Dawg]

LB is gonna be a BIG concern

Agree, biggest hole on D; wish Gay would change his mind. Could be difference in a win or two.

[bobcat91]

LB is gonna be a BIG concern

Cant see it being any worse than this year. Gay was suspended, Errol was out of shape and Lewis is the most overrated player in our history.

[Spiderman]

Maybe, but they had no back ups that seemed able to play well at this level

[Coursesuper]

LB is gonna be a BIG concern

Yep, talent and numbers are very problematic. Unless the Juco is a difference maker, but we won't know that for a hot minute. Need for speed.

[HailStateSZN19]

Agree, biggest hole on D; wish Gay would change his mind. Could be difference in a win or two.

Willie is gone & can't come back now. He's already signed with an agent. Signed with one the day he announced his decision.

I think it'd be smart to save one spot for a grad transfer LB *IF* there's one in the portal you think can make an immediate impact.

[Cowbell]

Anyone with an ounce of knowledge on defensive schemes and management paired with three 1st round draft picks could have a stud defense. Sorry, but that plays a huge factor. I don't think we've seen a full view of Shoops ability.

Well there have been plenty of defenses with more talent do less. And that side of the ball greatly improved while the offense regressed with the same players from the year before. I think people need to give him more credit.

[Coursesuper]

Well there have been plenty of defenses with more talent do less. And that side of the ball greatly improved while the offense regressed with the same players from the year before. I think people need to give him more credit.

With the offensive staff coming from Wazzu the defensive side of the ball is going to have to be guys that can coach but have to know the lay of the land recruiting in and around Mississippi.

[HailStateSZN19]

Just how solid of a recruiter is Charlie Strong? I'd be thrilled with the hire but I don't know too much of his recruiting background though. Someone inform me on his recruiting ability and his past recruiting please. I've seen several say he'd be a stout recruiter.

[dawgoneyall]

His USF team got worse every year he was there and his defense was giving up a ton of points to the better offenses in the league.

I know he was good once but I don?t see much lately that makes me feel great. He was top 50 in sacks and top 10 in tackles for loss so was his secondary worse than ours as they didn?t make top 50 total defense.

I?d be curious about Randy Shannon at UCF or David Reeves at UAB or even Tim Billings at USM

I am not

[Cooterpoot]

Big difference in being a HC and a coordinator. Eventhough he was successful at Louisville somewhat. He's a good DC and recruiter.

[basedog]

Big difference in being a HC and a coordinator. Eventhough he was successful at Louisville somewhat. He's a good DC and recruiter.

Second time I've seen where he is or was a good recruiter, if so why didn't he win more football games. His defense sucked lately. He was really good and a ho up coming coach one time, but I have doubts he is better than Shoop now days.

[Cooterpoot]

Second time I've seen where he is or was a good recruiter, if so why didn't he win more football games. His defense sucked lately. He was really good and a ho up coming coach one time, but I have doubts he is better than Shoop now days.

Because there's a difference in being a HC and a coordinator. We just dealt with that here. He's also known for having defenses that work well with uptempo offenses. He would be solid. I have my doubts he's the guy, but I didn't think we could pull Leach either.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Why does everyone keep saying Strong is a "monster recruiter"?

His 3 classes at Texas finished #10, 7, and 25. That's good but not crazy for Texas, which had multiple top 5 finishes in the last few years under Mac.

USF is the really telling one though. 2 seasons before he got there USF finished #66 and 76. Under Stong they went 65, 77, and 121 this year. Taggart recruited just as well there.

He has no MS ties either, clearly doesnt have a good eye for defensive coaching talent else his Ds at Texas and USF would be decent, and he hasnt been a DC in over a decade.

He was a great DC at Florida, with top 5 talent. He was a great recruiter at Florida, where even Mullen is recruiting well. That's basically all you guys are going on when you say hed be a great hire.

I dont know, it kinda feels like the insiders heard Strongs name mentioned and now they're trying to make it seem like it would be a great hire. Shoop is far more proven, with good Ds at Vandy, great Ds at PSU, and the #1D last year. Why dont we let him pick the defensive staff, he camt be worse at spotting coaching talent than Strong is lol

[Cooterpoot]

We've got to hire a good DC. Unless something really changes with Shoop, he's gone. He was wanting out before the hire. Just get a good DC. We won't fare well without one.

[HailStateSZN19]

We've got to hire a good DC. Unless something really changes with Shoop, he's gone. He was wanting out before the hire. Just get a good DC. We won't fare well without one.

Any other solid options you'd personally kick the tires on aside from Strong? I'd be curious to hear who else would be a possibility. This is a HUGE hire for Leach.

[basedog]

We've got to hire a good DC. Unless something really changes with Shoop, he's gone. He was wanting out before the hire. Just get a good DC. We won't fare well without one.

I agree, if the DC isn't a home run hire we will get killed in the Sec West. At least Shoop knows the west and our players, to me, Strong had his day.

[Cooterpoot]

And as far as Strong at USF, his offenses were in the 100s. His defenses stayed on the field. Strong is known as a developer of talent. Half of his first Louisville signing class got drafted. He recruited fine at Texas but pissed off the HS coaches there. Charlie has burned some bridges so he's not perfect. But he's a good DC. Still don't know that he's a fit here but hell, we fitting a lot of new folks here these days. It's so late it's going to be hard to find a legit DC other than Strong if Shoop still wants out.

[Irondawg]

Any other solid options you'd personally kick the tires on aside from Strong? I'd be curious to hear who else would be a possibility. This is a HUGE hire for Leach.

I mentioned 3 in the original post - all have had multiple years with good defenses

[Todd4State]

And as far as Strong at USF, his offenses were in the 100s. His defenses stayed on the field. Strong is known as a developer of talent. Half of his first Louisville signing class got drafted. He recruited fine at Texas but pissed off the HS coaches there. Charlie has burned some bridges so he's not perfect. But he's a good DC. Still don't know that he's a fit here but hell, we fitting a lot of new folks here these days. It's so late it's going to be hard to find a legit DC other than Strong if Shoop still wants out.

I wonder if Shoop wanted out because of Joe.

[Leroy Jenkins]

Anyone with an ounce of knowledge on defensive schemes and management paired with three 1st round draft picks could have a stud defense. Sorry, but that plays a huge factor. I don't think we've seen a full view of Shoops ability.

Shoop has had a top 25 defense for the last 8 years outside of the UT disaster (32nd); to include the #2 ranked D at PSU. All three of his years at Vandy were top 25 D's. How many 1st rounders do you think they had? The guy is good. The paint fumes may be getting to you.

[Really Clark?]

His USF team got worse every year he was there and his defense was giving up a ton of points to the better offenses in the league.

I know he was good once but I don?t see much lately that makes me feel great. He was top 50 in sacks and top 10 in tackles for loss so was his secondary worse than ours as they didn?t make top 50 total defense.

I?d be curious about Randy Shannon at UCF or David Reeves at UAB or even Tim Billings at USM

Don?t mix Strong?s HC career vs his DC career. 2 separate things. That being said his Louisville teams were top 25 every year and #1 in the country his last year, this was with Vance Bedford as DC but Charlie has a bigger hand in it at Louisville. They both went to Texas and first year was 26th and then the wheels feel off program wide.

Randy Shannon is pretty dang solid. Not as good as Shoop at his best or Strong as DC but pretty solid.

Billings issue to me is the passing game has not been very good but overall had a good defense at USM. He only has one year in a P5 conference as DC at Wake in 2011, it wasn?t very good. Did a good job at Marshall to.

Reeves has had some really great defenses but the question about Clark has to be considered here as well. They have been playing with a lot of older players vs their opponents and other than an assistant off field stint from 2000-2005 at Bama no P5 experience as a position coach much less DC. Definitely has a question mark

[Todd4State]

The best thing about Shoop would be he would be able to keep some continuity. But can he be the bad cop that Leach needs? He clearly wasn't when Joe was around. Unless Joe overruled him constantly.

[dawgday166]

I wonder if Shoop wanted out because of Joe.

That's what I've wondered too. In 2018 when Shoop gave his spiel (for him) after FL lost he said "this staff don't get it" then he caught himself and rephrased saying "this staff is learning that EVERY TEAM that you play EVERY WEEK in this league come in to kill you. Literally to kill you. This is a different league and this staff is starting to understand that". That was also when he instituted Toughness Tuesdays.

So everything in quotes is paraphrasing but I think he was not happy with the culture here. May not be nothing to it .. but Shoop was not a weekly presser this year like he was last year. He didn't speak to press at all I don't think till the bowl prep.

[Todd4State]

That's what I've wondered too. In 2018 when Shoop gave his spiel (for him) after FL lost he said "this staff don't get it" then he caught himself and rephrased saying "this staff is learning that EVERY TEAM that you play EVERY WEEK in this league come in to kill you. Literally to kill you. This is a different league and this staff is starting to understand that". That was also when he instituted Toughness Tuesdays.

So everything in quotes is paraphrasing but I think he was not happy with the culture here. May not be nothing to it .. but Shoop was not a weekly presser this year like he was last year. He didn't speak to press at all I don't think till the bowl prep.

And Shoop may have been undercut by Moorhead as far as discipline goes. The way we handled the press this year with the assistants was kind of odd. Only once a year for each assistant isn't enough.

[dawgday166]

And Shoop may have been undercut by Moorhead as far as discipline goes. The way we handled the press this year with the assistants was kind of odd. Only once a year for each assistant isn't enough.

That's just another example of why I was getting so pissed at Joe. Some of the 247 crowd loves the guy cause he's a good person but ... I think Joe was controlling the message. He kept spinning the message, kept spinning interpretation of the stats, every week of practice was good, every player was doing good, yada, yada.

Leach for sure won't do that. If practice ain't good he'll say "practice sucked". If players are loafing he'll tell you "they're entitled and being lazy". He don't cut no corners other than he'll temper his use profanity with the press.

[Todd4State]

That's just another example of why I was getting so pissed at Joe. Some of the 247 crowd loves the guy cause he's a good person but ... I think Joe was controlling the message. He kept spinning the message, kept spinning interpretation of the stats, every week of practice was good, every player was doing good, yada, yada.

Leach for sure won't do that. If practice ain't good he'll say "practice sucked". If players are loafing he'll tell you "they're entitled and being lazy". He don't cut no corners other than he'll temper his use profanity with the press.

The fan media has their role and the thing we all need to understand is that for them to get access they have to keep making MSU happy. If they tell all the facts they will lose trust and access. Elitedawgs and Sixpack don't have those restrictions.

That's why people suspected that we would make a change after Rosebowl went off after the Music City Bowl.

[dawgday166]

The fan media has their role and the thing we all need to understand is that for them to get access they have to keep making MSU happy. If they tell all the facts they will lose trust and access. Elitedawgs and Sixpack don't have those restrictions.

That's why people suspected that we would make a change after Rosebowl went off after the Music City Bowl.

I understand that part of it. And honestly Rosie let some things sorta get out here and there before bowl game. He wasn't happy about a few things himself I don't think.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Cant see it being any worse than this year. Gay was suspended, Errol was out of shape and Lewis is the most overrated player in our history.

Errol could be back. He will be the old Errol if so. He was terrible this year except for about 2 games. Brule is going to have to play and play well. I could see JP Purvis going to LB and Wheat will have to play. Jett Johnson aint a puppy anymore its time for him to play

[BuckyIsAB****]

Any other solid options you'd personally kick the tires on aside from Strong? I'd be curious to hear who else would be a possibility. This is a HUGE hire for Leach.

Bryan Brown, Tim DeRuyter, Adam Fuller, Andy Avalos, Scottie Hazelton

[Really Clark?]

Bryan Brown, Tim DeRuyter, Adam Fuller, Andy Avalos, Scottie Hazelton

You gonna start another debate bringing up Brown. He’s good though. Hard pass on DeRuyter. Fuller is not leaving Florida St. I like Avalos as well, just don’t see him leaving Oregon, same with Hazelton at KST but he is really good as well.

[BuckyIsAB****]

You gonna start another debate bringing up Brown. He’s good though. Hard pass on DeRuyter. Fuller is not leaving Florida St. I like Avalos as well, just don’t see him leaving Oregon, same with Hazelton at KST but he is really good as well.

I didnt know Norvell took Fuller with him. DeRuyter has had a pretty good defense the last couple of years at Cal. Im down for Brown he's from MS. They struggled at times this year but so did Shoop.

I think we could get Hazelton for the right price. Avalos is doubtful but he is probably the best one on the list

[Really Clark?]

I didnt know Norvell took Fuller with him. DeRuyter has had a pretty good defense the last couple of years at Cal. Im down for Brown he's from MS. They struggled at times this year but so did Shoop.

I think we could get Hazelton for the right price. Avalos is doubtful but he is probably the best one on the list

Oh I like Brown, it’s just you know what bringing him here would spark on the message boards. DeRuyter had a descent defense last year but 65th this season, his Fresno and AM days were bad to absolutely horrid. Klieman and Hazelton have coached a long time together, I have big doubts we could pull that off.

[Todd4State]

Errol could be back. He will be the old Errol if so. He was terrible this year except for about 2 games. Brule is going to have to play and play well. I could see JP Purvis going to LB and Wheat will have to play. Jett Johnson aint a puppy anymore its time for him to play

Errol was so out of shape this year. I'm pretty sure my body fat percentage is lower than his and I'm not exactly a bodybuilder.


Oh I like Brown, it’s just you know what bringing him here would spark on the message boards. DeRuyter had a descent defense last year but 65th this season, his Fresno and AM days were bad to absolutely horrid. Klieman and Hazelton have coached a long time together, I have big doubts we could pull that off.

Which is always funny to me. Those people probably forgot where Joe Lee Dunn used to be a head coach. And where Tony Hughes has been an assistant before Dan picked him up.