Sack up

[BuckyIsAB****]

OM took longer to hire Kiffin than we have. Fired Luke on the 1st (maybe the day before) announced Kiffin on the 7th. Some of yall are flipping out for no reason at all.

Get off Cohens ass. If you dont donate money, you are just another person with fake sources. I have called my shot for Joe Judge and I was wrong. I didnt want Judge so I will take that L gladly.

If its Leach you are getting a proven winner at multiple stops who has done the very definition of ''less with more''. He is quirky and different but he is also a WINNER. We are trading a coach with 0 accountability who was so deep over his head he drowned for a proven winner and a real offensive innovator.

He will recruit fine. He constantly has one of the best OLs and QBs in the country. Most productive WRs. I guess he didnt recruit Mike Crabtree. Some of yall are just complaining about what yall read on twitter and dont know. He is probably the best and most proven coach we could get right now. All of yall talking about his offense you have no clue how to run it or what goes into it. It is really the most simple offense you can run. It has about 10 plays with added tags to it. If you dont believe me I dont care. When they do run the ball it is bc the QB called it not Leach. He aint calling a run play. If it was so complicated and hard to run why does it constantly produce with less ''talent'' and lower recruiting rankings than every team they beat?? Unlike our last offensive savant, Leach is going to win on the field and not just the whiteboard. He is a massive upgrade.

And before some of yall even say it ''making a thread bitching telling others to quit bitching'' yall can piss and miss for all I care. The search is not a shitshow. I donate 0 dollars per year to the BDC. Outside of the beers and food I buy in Starkville Im not giving a red cent to MSU. Every game I have been too the last 2 years other than baseball, I got my tickets for free with my state pass. Hell I have never even paid my alumni dues. Its not bc I dont love MSU its bc I cant afford it.

But I can tell yall this, We need a shot in the arm in the worst way and Leach will provide that. I think Sark would provide that but he is not as proven as Leach. There is 0 debating that. There is 0 debating that Leach is a winner. Saban aint coming here. The perfect coach does not exist.

Edited to say all of us wanted to get a sitting P5 winning HC to leave and come here. Leach is exactly that and some of yall aint happy. Who in Gods name do you want then?

Hail State and Swing Your Sword

[Spiderman]

OM took longer to hire Kiffin than we have. Fired Luke on the 1st (maybe the day before) announced Kiffin on the 7th. Some of yall are flipping out for no reason at all.

Get off Cohens ass. If you dont donate money, you are just another person with fake sources. I have called my shot for Joe Judge and I was wrong. I didnt want Judge so I will take that L gladly.

If its Leach you are getting a proven winner at multiple stops who has done the very definition of ''less with more''. He is quirky and different but he is also a WINNER. We are trading a coach with 0 accountability who was so deep over his head he drowned for a proven winner and a real offensive innovator.

He will recruit fine. He constantly has one of the best OLs and QBs in the country. Most productive WRs. I guess he didnt recruit Mike Crabtree. Some of yall are just complaining about what yall read on twitter and dont know. He is probably the best and most proven coach we could get right now. All of yall talking about his offense you have no clue how to run it or what goes into it. It is really the most simple offense you can run. It has about 10 plays with added tags to it. If you dont believe me I dont care. When they do run the ball it is bc the QB called it not Leach. He aint calling a run play. If it was so complicated and hard to run why does it constantly produce with less ''talent'' and lower recruiting rankings than every team they beat?? Unlike our last offensive savant, Leach is going to win on the field and not just the whiteboard. He is a massive upgrade.

And before some of yall even say it ''making a thread bitching telling others to quit bitching'' yall can piss and miss for all I care. The search is not a shitshow. I donate 0 dollars per year to the BDC. Outside of the beers and food I buy in Starkville Im not giving a red cent to MSU. Every game I have been too the last 2 years other than baseball, I got my tickets for free with my state pass. Hell I have never even paid my alumni dues. Its not bc I dont love MSU its bc I cant afford it.

But I can tell yall this, We need a shot in the arm in the worst way and Leach will provide that. I think Sark would provide that but he is not as proven as Leach. There is 0 debating that. There is 0 debating that Leach is a winner. Saban aint coming here. The perfect coach does not exist.

Hail State and Swing Your Sword

Hear Hear

[Todd4State]

Is Mike Leach a serious option? I'm not complaining I just don't believe it.

[Commercecomet24]

You're a good man Bucky and it's why I enjoy this board so much. I enjoy hearing all the different views and opinions. I'm glad we don't all think alike it would be boring

[HancockCountyDog]

OM took longer to hire Kiffin than we have. Fired Luke on the 1st (maybe the day before) announced Kiffin on the 7th. Some of yall are flipping out for no reason at all.

Get off Cohens ass. If you dont donate money, you are just another person with fake sources. I have called my shot for Joe Judge and I was wrong. I didnt want Judge so I will take that L gladly.

If its Leach you are getting a proven winner at multiple stops who has done the very definition of ''less with more''. He is quirky and different but he is also a WINNER. We are trading a coach with 0 accountability who was so deep over his head he drowned for a proven winner and a real offensive innovator.

He will recruit fine. He constantly has one of the best OLs and QBs in the country. Most productive WRs. I guess he didnt recruit Mike Crabtree. Some of yall are just complaining about what yall read on twitter and dont know. He is probably the best and most proven coach we could get right now. All of yall talking about his offense you have no clue how to run it or what goes into it. It is really the most simple offense you can run. It has about 10 plays with added tags to it. If you dont believe me I dont care. When they do run the ball it is bc the QB called it not Leach. He aint calling a run play. If it was so complicated and hard to run why does it constantly produce with less ''talent'' and lower recruiting rankings than every team they beat?? Unlike our last offensive savant, Leach is going to win on the field and not just the whiteboard. He is a massive upgrade.

And before some of yall even say it ''making a thread bitching telling others to quit bitching'' yall can piss and miss for all I care. The search is not a shitshow. I donate 0 dollars per year to the BDC. Outside of the beers and food I buy in Starkville Im not giving a red cent to MSU. Every game I have been too the last 2 years other than baseball, I got my tickets for free with my state pass. Hell I have never even paid my alumni dues. Its not bc I dont love MSU its bc I cant afford it.

But I can tell yall this, We need a shot in the arm in the worst way and Leach will provide that. I think Sark would provide that but he is not as proven as Leach. There is 0 debating that. There is 0 debating that Leach is a winner. Saban aint coming here. The perfect coach does not exist.

Hail State and Swing Your Sword

Love your passion, but it?s ok to have legit concerns about a pass first Head coach that has openly admitted that recruiting is overrated and it?s been pretty well known that he isn?t going to spend a ton of time recruiting.

We complained about the country club, he would do less.

He would definitely be a splash hire, but he also isn?t a quick turnaround guy. He went 3-9, 6-7, and 3-9 his first three years at WSU. He wouldn?t get a 4th year here. His system is not ideal for what we recruit to. We don?t recruit Wrs or pass blocking OL well. Those are must haves in his offense.

We?ve seen what works here, and it?s not a pass first offense in the SEC West with our OL and our Wrs. This says nothing about his ?quirks? that are hilarious when he isn?t your coach and not recruiting in the south.

I still can?t believe we can?t get Napier.

[ShotgunDawg]

OM took longer to hire Kiffin than we have. Fired Luke on the 1st (maybe the day before) announced Kiffin on the 7th. Some of yall are flipping out for no reason at all.

Get off Cohens ass. If you dont donate money, you are just another person with fake sources. I have called my shot for Joe Judge and I was wrong. I didnt want Judge so I will take that L gladly.

If its Leach you are getting a proven winner at multiple stops who has done the very definition of ''less with more''. He is quirky and different but he is also a WINNER. We are trading a coach with 0 accountability who was so deep over his head he drowned for a proven winner and a real offensive innovator.

He will recruit fine. He constantly has one of the best OLs and QBs in the country. Most productive WRs. I guess he didnt recruit Mike Crabtree. Some of yall are just complaining about what yall read on twitter and dont know. He is probably the best and most proven coach we could get right now. All of yall talking about his offense you have no clue how to run it or what goes into it. It is really the most simple offense you can run. It has about 10 plays with added tags to it. If you dont believe me I dont care. When they do run the ball it is bc the QB called it not Leach. He aint calling a run play. If it was so complicated and hard to run why does it constantly produce with less ''talent'' and lower recruiting rankings than every team they beat?? Unlike our last offensive savant, Leach is going to win on the field and not just the whiteboard. He is a massive upgrade.

And before some of yall even say it ''making a thread bitching telling others to quit bitching'' yall can piss and miss for all I care. The search is not a shitshow. I donate 0 dollars per year to the BDC. Outside of the beers and food I buy in Starkville Im not giving a red cent to MSU. Every game I have been too the last 2 years other than baseball, I got my tickets for free with my state pass. Hell I have never even paid my alumni dues. Its not bc I dont love MSU its bc I cant afford it.

But I can tell yall this, We need a shot in the arm in the worst way and Leach will provide that. I think Sark would provide that but he is not as proven as Leach. There is 0 debating that. There is 0 debating that Leach is a winner. Saban aint coming here. The perfect coach does not exist.

Hail State and Swing Your Sword

Hear hear

Had Cohen not rushed the Moorhead hire, perhaps he gets around to interviewing Satterfield.

Cohen has had 2 years to think about what he did wrong in the Moorhead process and you know what he found? He didn't interview enough people. He was bound and determined this time to leave no stone unturned and that's what he's doing.

Get off his ass. There is no rush. Just get the right guy

[DownwardDawg]

Is Mike Leach a serious option? I'm not complaining I just don't believe it.

I don?t believe it either. Surely our administration is not as stupid as our fan base. Hopefully this is a giant smokescreen to make the fans happy when he hires Hud or Calhoun.

Because after this rumor, I?d be THRILLED with Grantham!!!

[BuckyIsAB****]

Love your passion, but it?s ok to have legit concerns about a pass first Head coach that has openly admitted that recruiting is overrated and it?s been pretty well known that he isn?t going to spend a ton of time recruiting.

We complained about the country club, he would do less.

He would definitely be a splash hire, but he also isn?t a quick turnaround guy. He went 3-9, 6-7, and 3-9 his first three years at WSU. He wouldn?t get a 4th year here. His system is not ideal for what we recruit to. We don?t recruit Wrs or pass blocking OL well. Those are must haves in his offense.

We?ve seen what works here, and it?s not a pass first offense in the SEC West with our OL and our Wrs. This says nothing about his ?quirks? that are hilarious when he isn?t your coach and not recruiting in the south.

I still can?t believe we can?t get Napier.

I appreciate you responding without being a total dick first off.

Secondly, Texas Tech and WSU thought they knew what worked there to till they hired Leach. He ran this offense in the 90s and beat us once or twice with it. Sumlin ran a variation of it at A&M.

I guess yall think LSU doesnt run air raid concepts. Or Bama. I could see your argument about him recruting. That and defense would be huge concerns for me. I get it. But him being a proven winner can override that for me till yall find the perfect coach to hire.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Is Mike Leach a serious option? I'm not complaining I just don't believe it.

You and Downward can go argue with the Washington State newspaper and the Seattle times if you dont believe he is a candidate.

He is the most proven coach we can get. If yall dont want a proven winner, then dont hire him. If you do, we'll get him.

[DownwardDawg]

I appreciate you responding without being a total dick first off.

Secondly, Texas Tech and WSU thought they knew what worked there to till they hired Leach. He ran this offense in the 90s and beat us once or twice with it. Sumlin ran a variation of it at A&M.

I guess yall think LSU doesnt run air raid concepts. Or Bama. I could see your argument about him recruting. That and defense would be huge concerns for me. I get it. But him being a proven winner can override that for me till yall find the perfect coach to hire.

He might work at LSU or Bama. State can’t ever get those players.

[Spiderman]

Is Mike Leach a serious option? I'm not complaining I just don't believe it.

No idea. Just like I have no idea who has actually been interviewed. I've heard rumors, but that's all I look at them as.

[Spiderman]

He might work at LSU or Bama. State can’t ever get those players.

What players? Leach has a winning percentage of 60% with nowhere near the talent Ala. or LSU has.

[BuckyIsAB****]

He might work at LSU or Bama. State can’t ever get those players.

I missed WSU's top 5 recruiting classes. Yall cant have it both ways. You cant say he cant recruit those guys when he recruits worse than we do according to the gospel of recruiting rankings and has still won. He wins with New England patriot WRs and late round draft pick QBs. I havent seen many Cougar OL taken in the top 10 of the draft either. Mullen aint coming back, Jackie aint coming out of retirement and Tom Landry is dead.

Leach is a proven winner. What more do you want

[ShotgunDawg]

What players? Leach has a winning percentage of 60% with nowhere near the talent Ala. or LSU has.

And you know what? Nowhere near the talent MSU has and can recruit.

MSU will have the most talent Leach has ever coached.

It's why I think it can work. And he's got enough name recognition to go to Texas to get us some pass catchers if he needs too.

What's interesting is that Wazzou took him away from the Texas recruiting ground he knew. MSU would put him back close enough to Dallas and Houston to compete for some guys.

[BuckyIsAB****]

And you know what? Nowhere near the talent MSU has and can recruit.

MSU will have the most talent Leach has ever coached.

It's why I think it can work. And he's got enough name recognition to go to Texas to get us some pass catchers if he needs too.

What's interesting is that Wazzou took him away from the Texas recruiting ground he knew. MSU would put him back close enough to Dallas and Houston to compete for some guys.

WSU got him after he got fired bc Craig James was mad his son didnt get to play. We have a shot to get him to leave a place he is currently winning at.

ALLLLLLLLL of yall bitching about how we cant get a sitting P5 winning HC to leave and now we have JUST THAT and you are still raising hell. It is laughable. This fanbase is the shitshow not Cohen

[DownwardDawg]

Nap is a proven winner. Hud, Calhoun, Sark, etc.... without the big 12 weak ass no defense wide open pass game. We recruit running backs. He needs too receivers which he will NEVER get at State.

Doesn’t matter. State ain’t hiring Leach.

[JoseBrown]

I appreciate you responding without being a total dick first off.

Secondly, Texas Tech and WSU thought they knew what worked there to till they hired Leach. He ran this offense in the 90s and beat us once or twice with it. Sumlin ran a variation of it at A&M.

I guess yall think LSU doesnt run air raid concepts. Or Bama. I could see your argument about him recruting. That and defense would be huge concerns for me. I get it. But him being a proven winner can override that for me till yall find the perfect coach to hire.

Was Sumlin still at Houston when they lucked, or reffed, into that win in Starkville in Dan's first year?

[Spiderman]

Nap is a proven winner. Hud, Calhoun, Sark, etc.... without the big 12 weak ass no defense wide open pass game. We recruit running backs. He needs too receivers which he will NEVER get at State.

Doesn’t matter. State ain’t hiring Leach.

Lord, Mike Leach can't recruit WR's?!!!

Yeah, receivers hate getting the ball thrown to them a lot.**

Damn

[HancockCountyDog]

I don’t think you can make a legit argument that Leach is not a good coach, of course he is good.

For me, it comes down to fit. Can we win going with a pass first offense? It certainly is possible, but I feel like in the SEC more than any other conference it’s been proven that unless you are LSU and Bama, that you have to be able to run the ball and protect the QB. The idea of throwing the ball 45 times with our current WRs and OL worries the hell out of me.

Also, Leach is 58, And already making close to 4 million.

I guess I’m looking for the next young hungry coach. That just doesn’t feel like Leach. Maybe I’m wrong.

[Spiderman]

Was Sumlin still at Houston when they lucked, or reffed, into that win in Starkville in Dan's first year?

yes

[BuckyIsAB****]

Nap is a proven winner. Hud, Calhoun, Sark, etc.... without the big 12 weak ass no defense wide open pass game. We recruit running backs. He needs too receivers which he will NEVER get at State.

Doesn’t matter. State ain’t hiring Leach.

Leach has won more than all of them. Leach doesnt have the baggage that Sark has so yall cant bitch about that. He doesnt run the triple like Calhoun so no bitching there. Hud aint the winner that Leach is and he has begged for this job and cant get an interview.

So just admit I am right, we are bitching just to bitch and some of us are wrong about Leach just bc we dont like that he is weird. Its ok

[BuckyIsAB****]

I don’t think you can make a legit argument that Leach is not a good coach, of course he is good.

For me, it comes down to fit. Can we win going with a pass first offense? It certainly is possible, but I feel like in the SEC more than any other conference it’s been proven that unless you are LSU and Bama, that you have to be able to run the ball and protect the QB. The idea of throwing the ball 45 times with our current WRs and OL worries the hell out of me.

Also, Leach is 58, And already making close to 4 million.

I guess I’m looking for the next young hungry coach. That just doesn’t feel like Leach. Maybe I’m wrong.

Those last 2 are legit reasons to not hire him. I get that. I think his buyout his around 4-5 mil if Im not mistaken. He is older but he aint as old as Les Miles, who some of yall are hollering for or Saban.

Recruiting and defense would be question marks but with the new rules, the HC cant leave campus on recruiting visits during the spring anyway. He is going to go to Key West during the offseason anyway. He knows how to delegate. He gets a legit staff with recruiters and a legit DC and we are winning football games. 0 doubt and that fixes everything. Davis Wade will be Davis Wade again

[Spiderman]

I don?t think you can make a legit argument that Leach is not a good coach, of course he is good.

For me, it comes down to fit. Can we win going with a pass first offense? It certainly is possible, but I feel like in the SEC more than any other conference it?s been proven that unless you are LSU and Bama, that you have to be able to run the ball and protect the QB. The idea of throwing the ball 45 times with our current WRs and OL worries the hell out of me.

Also, Leach is 58, And already making close to 4 million.

I guess I?m looking for the next young hungry coach. That just doesn?t feel like Leach. Maybe I?m wrong.

Nobody in the SEC has lineup and just run the ball and beat Bama.

The teams that have beat them have had to throw it all over them in shoot outs.

Look at Bama's losses the last few years and see how they got beat.

Nobody is gonna line up and run the ball down Bama's throat as long as they keep
recruiting DL and OL like they are

[RocketDawg]

Hudspeth is Hud
Sarkisian is Sark

Gonna have to start calling Napier Nap if he comes. And Cohen will be Co, or perhaps Coh.

Can't hire Leach since there's no way to shorten his name ....

[CadaverDawg]

I have no sources, but I feel confident we aren't hiring Leach. And I'm glad.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Gardner Minshew ain't walking through the door, SEC defenses are slightly better than those in the PAC 12, and press conferences aren't as humorous after you get beat by 50. If Leach is hired then you can book us for no better than 4-8 for the next 2 years. There's a reason no SEC program has hired him, even when he was in his heyday at Tech: he openly loathes recruiting, doesn't give one 17 about defense, and throws his players under the bus the first time something goes wrong. Also, wasn't everyone saying all season how we need to run the damn football, now people want to bring in Air Raid offense.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Gardner Minshew ain?t walking through the door, SEC defenses are slightly better than those in the PAC 12, and press conferences aren?t as humorous after you get beat by 50. If Leach is hired then you can book us for no better than 4-8 for the next 2 years. There?s a reason no SEC program has hired him, even when he was in his heyday at Tech: he openly loathes recruiting, doesn?t give one 17 about defense, and throws his players under the bus the first time something goes wrong. Also, wasn?t everyone saying all season how we need to run the damn football, now people want to bring in Air Raid offense.

Well the smart people were saying we should do what fits our kids. No other SEC team has got him to leave WSU bc he is winning. Im pretty sure the entire board wanted a proven winner P5 coach to come. Here it is. I'd hate to work with some of yall if yall act like this in real lfie

[BuckyIsAB****]

I have no sources, but I feel confident we aren't hiring Leach. And I'm glad.

I like you. You're smarter than this. Do you want to win or not? If you want to win, if you want a proven HC that has won at the P5 level you'll be ok with Leach.

If not then you are just picking and choosing who to like based on something other than the only thing that matters....Wins

[BuckyIsAB****]

I can promise yall none of yall even know Leach's QBs name from this season. He lead the nation in passing. And he is no Minshew. Not even close.

We have a kid sitting in starkville MS who is a whole hell of a lot like Gardner, who Gardner is very close with. All of yall moaned about not getting Gardner. You have a shot at the closest thing to it but right now he doesnt have a coach and plays for a fanbase who bitches, gets a shot at what they wanted and responds by bitching some more

[StarkVegasSteve]

I can promise yall none of yall even know Leach's QBs name from this season. He lead the nation in passing. And he is no Minshew. Not even close.

We have a kid sitting in starkville MS who is a whole hell of a lot like Gardner, who Gardner is very close with. All of yall moaned about not getting Gardner. You have a shot at the closest thing to it but right now he doesnt have a coach and plays for a fanbase who bitches, gets a shot at what they wanted and responds by bitching some more

Anthony Gordon. Was average. But Leach said he was the best he ever had....and no I didn't have to Google that. There was a huge Bleacher Report article on him. Air Force shut him down.

[DeputyDawg94]

I have been in the no to Leech crowd since his name first came up. I’m starting to come around to him a little, especially if he will hire a bad ass DC and let him coach. If it’s him (I don’t think it is) I’m not gonna complain.

On his worst day he’s better than the last coach and I’ll take that for sho.

ETA I’m as ready as anyone for this to end but if it takes a couple more days to get the right coach that’s a hell of a lot better than rushing to the wrong one.

[Irondawg]

The problem is good dc options won’t want to come play for a guy that is going to put his unit on the field constantly. You might be able to get someone older who want stability but I bet Leach is a hard guy to work for.

We would score but you mentioned Sumlin running some of the concepts and it didn’t work at TAMU with NFL receivers. I’d have to see his record against SEC teams as well.

It would be entertaining but I don’t think it would be successful.

[StarkVegasSteve]

He's Kevin Sumlin without Sumlin's ability to recruit. You might be able to bottle an 8-4 season once every 4 years. If I believed for one second a DC worth a damn would come coach for him I could get on board, but no DC wants to work for him. He caught lightning in a bottle with Alex Grinch last year.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Anthony Gordon. Was average. But Leach said he was the best he ever had....and no I didn't have to Google that. There was a huge Bleacher Report article on him. Air Force shut him down.

Yep. They lost to Air Force who would have kicked the absolute living shit out of us and Moorhead.

You saying he is average is further proving my point. Its about Leach's system not the kid. Minshew is a proven winner who got overlooked bc he doesnt look like Josh Allen or Ryan Mallet. A lot like Will Rogers who has a stronger arm than Minshew had.

Do you want to win or not? Jackie asked us that in 91 and we took him and look what happened. He is an upgrade. If you cant see that its bc you dont want to see it

[BuckyIsAB****]

He's Kevin Sumlin without Sumlin's ability to recruit. You might be able to bottle an 8-4 season once every 4 years. If I believed for one second a DC worth a damn would come coach for him I could get on board, but no DC wants to work for him. He caught lightning in a bottle with Alex Grinch last year.

Kevin Sumlin and Houston beat us twice I believe in Starkville. Both times we were still trying to run the I and our Mullen/Malzahn run the QB out of empty offense. Sumlin is vastly superior to Moorhead.

Leach is vastly superior to any other candidate we are looking at besides Sark (still better than him but not vastly) and Napier (much more proven than Napier)

[Spiderman]

He's Kevin Sumlin without Sumlin's ability to recruit. You might be able to bottle an 8-4 season once every 4 years. If I believed for one second a DC worth a damn would come coach for him I could get on board, but no DC wants to work for him. He caught lightning in a bottle with Alex Grinch last year.

Shiiiiiit.

[dawgday166]

Nobody in the SEC has lineup and just run the ball and beat Bama.

The teams that have beat them have had to throw it all over them in shoot outs.

Look at Bama's losses the last few years and see how they got beat.

Nobody is gonna line up and run the ball down Bama's throat as long as they keep
recruiting DL and OL like they are

Normally I would agree but Bama Dline and Backers haven't been what they used to be last 3 years. So I don't think you have to go Hugh Freeze on them necessarily and you do have to pass, but they can be run on better than from 2009 - 16. We could've run on them last year if Moorhead had tried to.

I will say also tho that Saban probably will work on getting them back to that level. But they ain't been the same since Kirby left. Pruitt wasn't huge dropoff but they been declining without him.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Kevin Sumlin and Houston beat us twice I believe in Starkville. Both times we were still trying to run the I and our Mullen/Malzahn run the QB out of empty offense. Sumlin is vastly superior to Moorhead.

Leach is vastly superior to any other candidate we are looking at besides Sark (still better than him but not vastly) and Napier (much more proven than Napier)

Actually only beat us once. We kicked the shit out of them in Houston the next year. But since you're so for him, who would be the DC? If he was able to pull a Kevin Steele type hire I would feel better about it. Still against it, but an elite DC would give us a fighting chance

[StarkVegasSteve]

Kevin Sumlin and Houston beat us twice I believe in Starkville. Both times we were still trying to run the I and our Mullen/Malzahn run the QB out of empty offense. Sumlin is vastly superior to Moorhead.

Leach is vastly superior to any other candidate we are looking at besides Sark (still better than him but not vastly) and Napier (much more proven than Napier)

Actually only beat us once. We kicked the shit out of them in Houston the next year. But since you're so for him, who would be the DC? If he was able to pull a Kevin Steele type hire I would feel better about it. Still against it, but an elite DC would give us a fighting chance

[CadaverDawg]

I like you. You're smarter than this. Do you want to win or not? If you want to win, if you want a proven HC that has won at the P5 level you'll be ok with Leach.

If not then you are just picking and choosing who to like based on something other than the only thing that matters....Wins

I want wins....just more than 6-7 of them at max in a year. Leach is old, unmotivated, a side show, great offense, no defense, no balance on offense, and in my opinion would at BEST win 6 or 7 wins in his best year here. No thanks. Give me Sark all day every day over him, and give me Napier over both. My opinion

But he's not Joe, so there's that.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Actually only beat us once. We kicked the shit out of them in Houston the next year. But since you're so for him, who would be the DC? If he was able to pull a Kevin Steele type hire I would feel better about it. Still against it, but an elite DC would give us a fighting chance

Im pretty sure Sumlin was at Houston when we played them under Croom. Maybe Im wrong.

The DC would be vital. That would be very interesting and it would be something I would have to feel good about before I hired him. Im not saying he's perfect dude but he is what we asked for when this thing started.

Edited to say Art Briles was the HC at houston that beat Croom in 05

[Cowbell]

I swear some of you must have never watched Texas Tech during their rise with Leach. the big 12 was actually good then and those teams were legit. But they fell off the cliff after he left. Lubbock is a tough place to recruit too. Maybe the single worst place yo recruit to in the country.

[msu15]

Im pretty sure Sumlin was at Houston when we played them under Croom. Maybe Im wrong.

The DC would be vital. That would be very interesting and it would be something I would have to feel good about before I hired him. Im not saying he's perfect dude but he is what we asked for when this thing started.

Edited to say Art Briles was the HC at houston that beat Croom in 05
Don't remind me of that game. I was there and watching Norwood run for 250+ with no help was infuriating.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Unless Napier is really coming, you hire Mike Leach. Period. I could be talked into Sark bc he is a proven recruiter and is younger but if we hire anybody but these 3 at this point, assuming they want the job, we are screwing the pooch

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

Well the smart people were saying we should do what fits our kids. No other SEC team has got him to leave WSU bc he is winning. Im pretty sure the entire board wanted a proven winner P5 coach to come. Here it is. I'd hate to work with some of yall if yall act like this in real lfie

I keep seeing ?proven winner? at where? Big12 and Pac12? We are talking about the SEC west for God?s sake. And he is not that great of a recruiter. I don?t think he has ever had a top 25 class. I am not sure he?s ever had a top 30 class. And he is supposed to come hear and do better? We would take a step back in recruiting and we can?t afford to do that.

[Matt3467]

I keep seeing ?proven winner? at where? Big12 and Pac12? We are talking about the SEC west for God?s sake. And he is not that great of a recruiter. I don?t think he has ever had a top 25 class. I am not sure he?s ever had a top 30 class. And he is supposed to come hear and do better? We would take a step back in recruiting and we can?t afford to do that.

He had a top 25 class once at Tech.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

He had a top 25 class once at Tech.

Oh ok 1...thanks for clarifying

[Todd4State]

You and Downward can go argue with the Washington State newspaper and the Seattle times if you dont believe he is a candidate.

He is the most proven coach we can get. If yall dont want a proven winner, then dont hire him. If you do, we'll get him.

I'm just saying it's pretty odd. He just doesn't seem to check off a lot of boxes of what Cohen seems to be looking for.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I'm just saying it's pretty odd. He just doesn't seem to check off a lot of boxes of what Cohen seems to be looking for.

What boxes?

Im guessing some of yall think he is soft and allows shit like Moorhead did? You're wrong if so.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I keep seeing ?proven winner? at where? Big12 and Pac12? We are talking about the SEC west for God?s sake. And he is not that great of a recruiter. I don?t think he has ever had a top 25 class. I am not sure he?s ever had a top 30 class. And he is supposed to come hear and do better? We would take a step back in recruiting and we can?t afford to do that.

Yeah he's won more than any other candidate has in their conferences that we are attempting to hire. People forget he has already ran this offense and won in this league.

Again, and nobody has had a decent argument against this yet, we wanted a proven winner that is still at a P5 program. Here it is. What else do you want

[Todd4State]

What boxes?

Im guessing some of yall think he is soft and allows shit like Moorhead did? You're wrong if so.

Not a great recruiter. Not known for great defenses. Soft- no, but he also put a guy in a shed.

[dantheman4248]

Not a great recruiter. Not known for great defenses. Soft- no, but he also put a guy in a shed.

Leach waxed the James family in court. Craig and his son both made shit up about Leach because Craig's son couldn't hack it. Craig is an awful human being and sadly it rubbed off on his son. #CJK5H

[timotheus]

with all the discipline in the program, a shed may come in handy........ next coach will probably have to release a few guys to get the point across

[Commercecomet24]

Leach waxed the James family in court. Craig and his son both made shit up about Leach because Craig's son couldn't hack it. Craig is an awful human being and sadly it rubbed off on his son. #CJK5H

Yeah when some of the stuff came out about that kid after Leach was gone it was easy to see that kid was an entitled little punk. Tech fans were way more pissed off at the James family than Leach

[Todd4State]

Leach waxed the James family in court. Craig and his son both made shit up about Leach because Craig's son couldn't hack it. Craig is an awful human being and sadly it rubbed off on his son. #CJK5H

My bad.

[deadheaddawg]

Leach would be a better long term hire than anyone mentioned

Including Napier

[ShotgunDawg]

Leach would be a better long term hire than anyone mentioned

Including Napier

Not if he recruits in the 40s

[Santiago]

Not if he recruits in the 40s

Why is this a constant jab on Leach as if he was coaching in the south, with plenty of recruits. Him recruiting in 30's or 40's where his campus is located is remarkable. His offense recruits itself.
MS kids would be excited to play in this system.

[Tbonewannabe]

Not if he recruits in the 40s

That along with his offense working against SEC defensive speed are the two things I worry about with Leach. At least he has coached in the SEC before. UK was mediocre when he was there under Mumme. Maybe his offense would do better this type around but who knows. It is all a gamble unless you are hiring a sitting SEC head coach.

[Tbonewannabe]

Why is this a constant jab on Leach as if he was coaching in the south, with plenty of recruits. Him recruiting in 30's or 40's where his campus is located is remarkable. His offense recruits itself.
MS kids would be excited to play in this system.

He very well could get a bump in recruiting just from the recruits that want to play in the SEC. If he could manage to recruit in the 20s like we are used to now then that would be at least one box checked off.

[RiverCityDawg]

Not if he recruits in the 40s

Isn't it about winning though? If he's always recruited below his peers and still won, isn't that a good thing when coming to a place like State? We are going to recruit below at least 4 teams in our division no matter who the coach is. Maybe he has access to better players in this area so he recruits in the 30's. Is that good enough?

I'm not sold on Leach because it would be such a change in style from what we've done historically. But I can't deny he's been able to pull it off his whole career... even with sub par recruiting.

[ShotgunDawg]

Isn't it about winning though? If he's always recruited below his peers and still won, isn't that a good thing when coming to a place like State? We are going to recruit below at least 4 teams in our division no matter who the coach is. Maybe he has access to better players in this area so he recruits in the 30's. Is that good enough?

I'm not sold on Leach because it would be such a change in style from what we've done historically. But I can't deny he's been able to pull it off his whole career... even with sub par recruiting.

Different level of athleticism in SEC defensive backfields than any other conference. Think back to Coach 34's points about Joe's offense not working in the SEC due to man to man coverage.

You simply can't win in the SEC without good recruiting.

NOW... if you told me we would continue to recruit in the low 20s with Leach, then hell yeah! I'm all in. However, I don't know if his personality would allow it.

[Santiago]

The WR upgrades alone in recruiting would up us always in the 20's.
The man wrote and published book about Geronimo. Doesn't that supercede anything else? **
Maybe as a perk, he will teach the class at MSU that he is currently teaching at Wazzou

[Really Clark?]

Does it not concern anyone that we have seen his offense basically play out in the SEC west recently with a school with a ton more money, much higher recruiting than we ever had, recruiting players who have been running this offense or a version of it all their life in Texas, and outside of having a Heisman QB for the first year it got their coach exactly an 8 win average for 5 years, 4-4 conference record for 5 years, never finished higher than 4th in the league his last 5 years, soft as charmin defense that was always wore out and giving up yards and points and him fired. And almost fired this year after 2 years in AZ. That’s at a school, Texas AM, with a much richer tradition, recruiting profile and money and they couldn’t get over the 8 win hump with all of their resources.

Or when other OC’s under his coaching tree or direct off shoot of his tree have tried to run it in this league the last decade, it’s mainly been below average to horrid. Outside of Josh Heupel’s second year at Mizzou it has not worked close to what everyone is thinking. Whether it’s lower tier schools in Kentucky (Neal Brown which were not great), Mizzou (Josh Heupel first year was horrid, second year very good), or at schools that recruit at a much higher level and has a much better history like Texas A & M or Auburn with Tony Franklin...that was a horrid year...3-2 game, etc. but in fairness it was also in a mess with TT and the boosters.

I’m not saying you don’t interview him if he is interested because his record is great. You have to interview him and strongly consider him because of his track record is really good. But for all the ones who keep bringing up how they would like to see how he would do in the SEC, well we have a track record already or a facsimile of what a version of his offense would look like. He set records at Kentucky and help rebuild that program, that’s great and a huge positive but with him as OC they went 5 and 7 wins and the same thing that plagued that team is an issue still now, puts up points but gives up more, see the upset win by UCLA this year when he had a big lead..67-65 or something like that. Like I said you interview him and if he knocks out if the park and your guy he is the guy and it’s the right time and fit (has to been another big concern), then he is our guy. But it’s a concern that so many think we haven’t seen what this will do in the league and we actually have some idea and it’s mostly been below average or bad

[Matt3467]

Oh ok 1...thanks for clarifying

Yes I'm going to clarify because when people like you and ShotgunDawg are out to delegitimize Leach just because you don't like the guy I have a problem. Know what you're talking about before both of you go out talking about how he hasn't had a top 25 or 30 class and in Shotguns case he argued as fact that Leach never had a top 46 class in his whole career when in his career at Tech except for pre '02 which I couldn't verify he only once had a class below 46 and that was 47th.

[Matt3467]

Not if he recruits in the 40s

I noticed you never responded to my other post where I completely debunked your "fact" that he never had a recruiting class better than 46th.

Show me where Wash St has ever recruited itself well. He did well recruiting at Tech and averaged recruiting classes in the 30's with one top 25.

You're telling me you don't think he can recruit at State better than he did at Tech when State averages top 30 classes?

[StarkVegasSteve]

It all comes down to this, who is he going to bring to be the defensive HC, cause he hates defense. So you'll have to overpay to get an even an average DC or you pray he can strike lightning in a bottle and find the second coming of Dave Arranda. The biggest thing I worry about with Leach is that you HAVE to be able to recruit both sides of the ball really well to compete in the SEC. He hates recruiting and hates defense, both his quotes. I just don't want to hire a guy because he might be entertaining in a press conference and would put up points. It doesn't matter if you're beat 13-6 or 53-36. A loss is a loss. I think Leach is wildly entertaining, I just don't want him running our football program. FWIW, it seems the candidates are down to Sark and Napier.