Leach will be a disaster...

[DLGDawg]

Of a hire. Yeah I know there are other threads talking about him. But I didn't see one that says hiring Leach will be a disaster.

Please. Someone step up and take Cohens phone and keys away from him.
(If only half of what's being reported he's doing )

[preachermatt83]

Leach would be a grandslam

[Quaoarsking]

A disaster ... for our opponents.

[Churchill]

The only coach kinda like Leach I've seen succeed in the SEC had an alligator on his visor and Florida/soon to be NFL talent on the sideline....for that reason I would be very skeptical about Leach at MOST SEC schools.

[reno hightower]

Of a hire. Yeah I know there are other threads talking about him. But I didn't see one that says hiring Leach will be a disaster.

Please. Someone step up and take Cohens phone and keys away from him.
(If only half of what's being reported he's doing )



Examples on why this will be a disaster??

[Commercecomet24]

Examples on why this will be a disaster??

OT I like your handle. That's one of my favorite movies!

[defiantdog]

This hire would be great because he would always win the press conference and how can you get mad at this guy?

[DeviousDawg]

Of a hire. Yeah I know there are other threads talking about him. But I didn't see one that says hiring Leach will be a disaster.

Please. Someone step up and take Cohens phone and keys away from him.
(If only half of what's being reported he's doing )

Did Momma ground you from your Black Bear stuffed animal "Colonel Rebear". I know losing your favorite little furry friend "Baby Shark" was tough, but I hope you can survive without both of your best furry friends.

If you aren't a troll, please expound on why it will be a disaster rather than just simply spewing the words out of your ignorant ass mouth. I know it must be unBearable to see State hire a real coach. Maybe you can pull out your secret weapon "Lane the Toy Train" and ride him straight to bed.

This board is just awful right now. Ignorance everywhere

[Tbonewannabe]

His recruiting is between 44 - 60. No chance that level recruiting makes you competitive. He might can coach his ass off but bottom line is you have to at least have a minimum talent level to compete in the SEC West.

[deadheaddawg]

Leach would be great

Napier, Sark, or Leach would all be great hires

[Cloak]

Leach would be a great hire.

[Goosedawg68]

Leach would not work here, simply because this is not the Big 12 or PAC 12.

[DLGDawg]

Did Momma ground you from your Black Bear stuffed animal "Colonel Rebear". I know losing your favorite little furry friend "Baby Shark" was tough, but I hope you can survive without both of your best furry friends.

If you aren't a troll, please expound on why it will be a disaster rather than just simply spewing the words out of your ignorant ass mouth. I know it must be unBearable to see State hire a real coach. Maybe you can pull out your secret weapon "Lane the Toy Train" and ride him straight to bed.

This board is just awful right now. Ignorance everywhere

Dang devious ...I was 100% with you on the Sark write up you did. Now I've got you accusing me of being a rebel troll???? Good grief man. PLEASE ask the enforcer to have me vetted. If not, dm me and I'll give you my phone number and we'll talk about it.

I expressed an opinion of Leach based on what I have seen from him over the years. I don't feel he has the leadership qualities that our program needs right now. It's just my honest opinion.

ETA. I have personally met several of the people who started this website. Not that that makes a difference....but dang man...don't call me a rebel. Go back and read every one of my posts before you spout off ignorant shit at me!!

[TrapGame]

The SXM guys on SEC Radio were as giddy as school girls over the thought of Leach in the SEC. They thought it would be a canon ball splash of a hire.

And IDGAF anymore. I'm ready for this to be over. Sark, Napier or Leach just hire one and let's get going.

[DeviousDawg]

His recruiting is between 44 - 60. No chance that level recruiting makes you competitive. He might can coach his ass off but bottom line is you have to at least have a minimum talent level to compete in the SEC West.

He would recruit in the 25-30 range, same as Mullen, maybe dip down below 20 once every couple classes, and also up to 35ish every now and again, but on average he would recruit at the level that we have always recruited. He is gonna get his guys like Mullen, just like Mullen.

Washington State has a recruiting profile closer to Southern Miss than Mississippi State, and honestly Southern Miss may have a better recruiting profile over the last 20 years. Looking at WSU's all time recruit list, they have signed and enrolled 10 4-stars since recruiting rankings begin around the new millennium. 5 of those were signed by Leach. They have never signed a 5 star. We think it's hard for us to recruit, we have no idea.

In short, it's WSU, not Leach that recruits poorly. Also, you can look at that glass half empty if you want, or you can look at it and say, wow Leach has only had 5 4-stars enroll since he started there, and he still has built a program that competes on a national scale. Leach would be a YUGEEEEEEEEEE hire. That's not an opinion, that's a fact.

[DeviousDawg]

Dang devious ...I was 100% with you on the Sark write up you did. Now I've got you accusing me of being a rebel troll???? Good grief man. PLEASE ask the enforcer to have me vetted. If not, dm me and I'll give you my phone number and we'll talk about it.

I expressed an opinion of Leach based on what I have seen from him over the years. I don't feel he has the leadership qualities that our program needs right now. It's just my honest opinion.

ETA. I have personally met several of the people who started this website. Not that that makes a difference....but dang man...don't call me a rebel. Go back and read every one of my posts before you spout off ignorant shit at me!!

Man, I was obviously just 17ing with you. I know you aren't a troll, sorry all of this BS and ignorance around the board has me a bit on edge, but it wasn't personal. You just ended up being the victim because I am tired of people stating "not a good hire", without even the smallest explanation. You are entitled to your opinion, and I can see what you are saying leadership wise, but he is just wayyyyyyy too good of a FOOTBALL COACH to not take if he wants to come, period.

[DeviousDawg]

Right now, this program and our fanbase needs a shot of adrenaline more than anything. Get everything back on track, get a good FOOTBALL COACH in there and the rest will take care of itself. The risk is miniscule compared to that with Judge, Grantham, Sark, and even Napier. He will win games here and that's what we need, along with something to be excited about.

[DLGDawg]

Man, I was obviously just 17ing with you. I know you aren't a troll, sorry all of this BS and ignorance around the board has me a bit on edge, but it wasn't personal. You just ended up being the victim because I am tired of people stating "not a good hire", without even the smallest explanation. You are entitled to your opinion, and I can see what you are saying leadership wise, but he is just wayyyyyyy too good of a FOOTBALL COACH to not take if he wants to come, period.

I did not see any sarcasterics so I thought you were dead serious. My bad if misinterpreted. I'm 51 and some of this younger folk talk is sometimes over my head or takes me a bit to "get it".

I agree that Leach is a good coach. You don't create an offense like his without being arguably a "great" coach. But Moorhead is a good coach to. So I don't know.
To me this is such an important hire for us at this time. I have been hoping for Napier. But then you wrote the piece on Sark and it made a lot of sense to me. So right now I am just hoping that it's Napier or Sark.

[Tbonewannabe]

He would recruit in the 25-30 range, same as Mullen, maybe dip down below 20 once every couple classes, and also up to 35ish every now and again, but on average he would recruit at the level that we have always recruited. He is gonna get his guys like Mullen, just like Mullen.

Washington State has a recruiting profile closer to Southern Miss than Mississippi State, and honestly Southern Miss may have a better recruiting profile over the last 20 years. Looking at WSU's all time recruit list, they have signed and enrolled 10 4-stars since recruiting rankings begin around the new millennium. 5 of those were signed by Leach. They have never signed a 5 star. We think it's hard for us to recruit, we have no idea.

In short, it's WSU, not Leach that recruits poorly. Also, you can look at that glass half empty if you want, or you can look at it and say, wow Leach has only had 5 4-stars enroll since he started there, and he still has built a program that competes on a national scale. Leach would be a YUGEEEEEEEEEE hire. That's not an opinion, that's a fact.

At Texas Tech, Leach was recruiting in the 33-45 range. The two years after were both in the 20s. So Texas Tech recruiting improved when he left.

Washington St is last or within the bottom three in the Pac 12 in recruiting almost every year under Leach. His best recruiting class at Washington St is with an average star rating of 2.88 on rivals which was around 8th or 9th in the Pac 12.

Not sure if he can overcome the recruiting short fall that would be in the SEC. It is a lot easier to coach them up when your recruiting at a level of 35-40 when the average team in the PAC 12 is closer to top 25 level talent vs the SEC having top 10-15 talent.

I wouldn't hate the hire but it wouldn't surprise me if Leach never won more than 7 games at MSU.

[Spiderman]

At Texas Tech, Leach was recruiting in the 33-45 range. The two years after were both in the 20s. So Texas Tech recruiting improved when he left.

Washington St is last or within the bottom three in the Pac 12 in recruiting almost every year under Leach. His best recruiting class at Washington St is with an average star rating of 2.88 on rivals which was around 8th or 9th in the Pac 12.

Not sure if he can overcome the recruiting short fall that would be in the SEC. It is a lot easier to coach them up when your recruiting at a level of 35-40 when the average team in the PAC 12 is closer to top 25 level talent vs the SEC having top 10-15 talent.

I wouldn't hate the hire but it wouldn't surprise me if Leach never won more than 7 games at MSU.

Take a step back and read what you posted. He recruited in the 35-40 range and won the number of games he did. That is impressive. That means he can coach. He does more with less. That's what state has to have. Any coach can win with top recruiting classes and at big programs.

What Leach has done is impressive as hell, as your research has just demonstrated

[dawgday166]

Take a step back and read what you posted. He recruited in the 35-40 range and won the number of games he did. That is impressive. That means he can coach. He does more with less. That's what state has to have. Any coach can win with top recruiting classes and at big programs.

What Leach has done is impressive as hell, as your research has just demonstrated

Bingo. That's what I noticed too when I did my research was a more with less coach. If Shoop were to stay we might could be in high cotton with Leach.

[Maroonthirteen]

I refuse to believe Leach is a serious candidate. Maybe Cohen gave him an interview but he has to be option 10 for Cohen. No way those two could co-exist.

[Coach34]

Would be a complete disaster At State. They play defense in the SEC. This isnt flag football that they play in the Big 12 and Pac 12. Moorhead has learned what constant man D does to your offense. The Pirate would too

DO NOT WANT

[HoopsDawg]

I'm team Leach. 100%.

[Tbonewannabe]

Take a step back and read what you posted. He recruited in the 35-40 range and won the number of games he did. That is impressive. That means he can coach. He does more with less. That's what state has to have. Any coach can win with top recruiting classes and at big programs.

What Leach has done is impressive as hell, as your research has just demonstrated

No doubt that he is a great coach and does more with less. My worry is that our recruiting wouldn't stay in the 20-25 range. I am worried that the level of recruits that he brings in won't be enough to compete. There is only so much coaching up and scheming that you can do. At some point you have to have Jimmy and Joes rather than Xs and Os.

[sandjunky]

Aye matey....lfg

[Mobile Bay]

The only coach kinda like Leach I've seen succeed in the SEC had an alligator on his visor and Florida/soon to be NFL talent on the sideline....for that reason I would be very skeptical about Leach at MOST SEC schools.

If you are talking about Spurrier, remember that coach led his #1 team in the nation to Starkville. When it was 3rd and 57, his QB ran out the back of the endzone in surrender.

[Spiderman]

No doubt that he is a great coach and does more with less. My worry is that our recruiting wouldn't stay in the 20-25 range. I am worried that the level of recruits that he brings in won't be enough to compete. There is only so much coaching up and scheming that you can do. At some point you have to have Jimmy and Joes rather than Xs and Os.

. I'll just say this Leach has a 60% winning percentage at TT and Wazzou. Sark was 56% at Washington and USC.

Which 2 schools are easier to recruit to and win at?

[HoopsDawg]

Leach does more with less better than anyone.

[defiantdog]

Cohen has lost the interview with basic coaches..... what makes y'all think he can convince a cut throat attorney to call him sir?

[Tbonewannabe]

. I'll just say this Leach has a 60% winning percentage at TT and Wazzou. Sark was 56% at Washington and USC.

Which 2 schools are easier to recruit to and win at?

See Coach34's post above. I am not sold on Leach's offense working in the SEC. That offense was close to what UK ran with Couch and they were only a bowl team with NFL level QBs and even then wasn't a great SEC team. I am not saying Leach would be a bust but I could see us going back to only beating UM, UK, or Ark on a regular schedule.

[Quaoarsking]

. I'll just say this Leach has a 60% winning percentage at TT and Wazzou. Sark was 56% at Washington and USC.

Which 2 schools are easier to recruit to and win at?

Boom. This should be stickied at the top of the forum.

(Unless we hire Sark and need to rally around him, of course.)

[Coach34]

Kentucky went 5-6 and 7-5 with Leach as OC and an NFL QB

[DownwardDawg]

Would be a complete disaster At State. They play defense in the SEC. This isnt flag football that they play in the Big 12 and Pac 12. Moorhead has learned what constant man D does to your offense. The Pirate would too

DO NOT WANT

We will be back to the 80’s after 2 years of Moorehead and then 2 years of Leach. And we’ll be poor too paying Leach’s buyout just 2 years after paying Mooreheads buyout.

[HoopsDawg]

Kentucky went 5-6 and 7-5 with Leach as OC and an NFL QB

That's pretty good.

[dawgday166]

Kentucky went 5-6 and 7-5 with Leach as OC and an NFL QB

You making some good points. I haven't watched Leach coached teams at all and just did some preliminary research on the fly this afternoon.

[Liverpooldawg]

. I'll just say this Leach has a 60% winning percentage at TT and Wazzou. Sark was 56% at Washington and USC.

Which 2 schools are easier to recruit to and win at?

Washington was 0-12 the year before Sark took over. The were literally the worst team in the P5 and one of the worst in D1. USC was at the depth of the destruction left by the NCAA and Kiffen.

[Churchill]

Would be a complete disaster At State. They play defense in the SEC. This isnt flag football that they play in the Big 12 and Pac 12. Moorhead has learned what constant man D does to your offense. The Pirate would too

DO NOT WANT

I am absolutely amazed that so many folks don't understand this. He would crash and burn like the Hindenburg.

[Liverpooldawg]

That's pretty good.

We just fired a guy for doing better than that with a QBs that couldn't throw the ball consistently.

[Quaoarsking]

Washington was 0-12 the year before Sark took over. The were literally the worst team in the P5 and one of the worst in D1. USC was at the depth of the destruction left by the NCAA and Kiffen.

Second worst. The worst team in P5 was easily the Washington State program that ... [checks Wikipedia] ... Mike Leach took over and miraculously turned around and took to greater heights than Sark ever took Washington.

[dawgday166]

Damn ... reading this thread I'm half for/half against Leach. I may have to go YouTube all his previous games and try to figure it out **

[Maroonthirteen]

If you are talking about Spurrier, remember that coach led his #1 team in the nation to Starkville. When it was 3rd and 57, his QB ran out the back of the endzone in surrender.

Hahahahaha. Spurrier was so frustrated in that moment. "F it, take a safety". Which if I recall correctly.... was a horrible decision given the score and time left. He lost his sh**. It was glorious.

[HoopsDawg]

We just fired a guy for doing better than that with a QBs that couldn't throw the ball consistently.

Different era bub.

[Spiderman]

Kentucky went 5-6 and 7-5 with Leach as OC and an NFL QB

Akili King and Ryan Leaf were "NFL" QB's. Couch was a bust in the NFL

[Spiderman]

Washington was 0-12 the year before Sark took over. The were literally the worst team in the P5 and one of the worst in D1. USC was at the depth of the destruction left by the NCAA and Kiffen.

Washington St was just as bad when Leach took over, and had less money and was harder to recruit to. In Leach's first year at Wazzou, he beat Sark, who was in his forth year at Washington.

[dawgday166]

Washington St was just as bad when Leach took over, and had less money and was harder to recruit to. In Leach's first year at Wazzou, he beat Sark, who was in his forth year at Washington.

Damn Spidey .. you making some damn good points here too. You know Leach pretty well seems like.

[Spiderman]

Damn Spidey .. you making some damn good points here too. You know Leach pretty well seems like.

Met him in '03 at a coaching clinic. In those days, outside of football geeks, he was not real known. He was interesting as hell and changed a lot of my thinking about football. Mainly the old "you can't do this or can't do that" mentality is horse shit.

He saw football as so simple. In his words "hell it ain't rocket science, but some coaches try to make it that hard". His simplicity was genius, to me. He took up all the time I wanted with me.

So I watched his teams play all I could and read everything I could on him. A couple of years later, we had a talented QB and I was able to convince our HC to put in more and more of Leach's stuff. Too his credit he saw the possibilities of what they did. I called and asked for drill and practice tapes for my QBs and WR's from Leach. They sent whatever I needed.

We lead the State in total offense 3 straight years.

We had a a WR who was 6 feet and maybe 150 who ran MAYBE a 4.9 40 who set the state record, at that time, for receiving TD's in a season, public or private school.

It made a believer out of me.

He's a different dude, but I think that is what has made him successful in places like he's been.

Should State hire him? I don't know, but I know it will take a different type dude to win here. Not an in the box thinker.

[deadheaddawg]

Leach knows people say he can't win in the SEC. If he wants this job he knows what he is up against with the schedule and recruiting..

He would not come here to ride off into the sunset. Especially since he knows this isn't the old MSU. We will fire your ass. Bowl games are not enough. The program has to be going up.

He's a smart guy..I believe he was an attorney before he was a coach.....he knows what people say. He knows what he up against.

I think he will have a chip on his shoulder. I think he wants to prove he can run with the big boys.

I don't know if it will work, but the idea of Mike leach with a chip on his shoulders, maybe coaching with more fire than ever.....the thought of that I can get behind and support

[Commercecomet24]

Met him in '03 at a coaching clinic. In those days, outside of football geeks, he was not real known. He was interesting as hell and changed a lot of my thinking about football. Mainly the old "you can't do this or can't do that" mentality is horse shit.

He saw football as so simple. In his words "hell it ain't rocket science, but some coaches try to make it that hard". His simplicity was genius, to me. He took up all the time I wanted with me.

So I watched his teams play all I could and read everything I could on him. A couple of years later, we had a talented QB and I was able to convince our HC to put in more and more of Leach's stuff. Too his credit he saw the possibilities of what they did. I called and asked for drill and practice tapes for my QBs and WR's from Leach. They sent whatever I needed.

We lead the State in total offense 3 straight years.

We had a a WR who was 6 feet and maybe 150 who ran MAYBE a 4.9 40 who set the state record, at that time, for receiving TD's in a season, public or private school.

It made a believer out of me.

He's a different dude, but I think that is what has made him successful in places like he's been.

Should State hire him? I don't know, but I know it will take a different type dude to win here. Not an in the box thinker.

Good post.

[dawgday166]

Met him in '03 at a coaching clinic. In those days, outside of football geeks, he was not real known. He was interesting as hell and changed a lot of my thinking about football. Mainly the old "you can't do this or can't do that" mentality is horse shit.

He saw football as so simple. In his words "hell it ain't rocket science, but some coaches try to make it that hard". His simplicity was genius, to me. He took up all the time I wanted with me.

So I watched his teams play all I could and read everything I could on him. A couple of years later, we had a talented QB and I was able to convince our HC to put in more and more of Leach's stuff. Too his credit he saw the possibilities of what they did. I called and asked for drill and practice tapes for my QBs and WR's from Leach. They sent whatever I needed.

We lead the State in total offense 3 straight years.

We had a a WR who was 6 feet and maybe 150 who ran MAYBE a 4.9 40 who set the state record, at that time, for receiving TD's in a season, public or private school.

It made a believer out of me.

He's a different dude, but I think that is what has made him successful in places like he's been.

Should State hire him? I don't know, but I know it will take a different type dude to win here. Not an in the box thinker.

I think you just sold me dude. At least I'd be willing to give it a shot with him if Cohen did make him the coach. Someone said he loved Mississippi too. Might have 10 or 12 good years left in him.

[Political Hack]

Leach would be a Mississippi grand slam.

[Coach34]

Leach would be a Mississippi grand slam.

hahaha- exactly

[Commercecomet24]

Leach would be a Mississippi grand slam.

Good one! Rep given!

[OSCAR]

Of a hire. Yeah I know there are other threads talking about him. But I didn't see one that says hiring Leach will be a disaster.

Please. Someone step up and take Cohens phone and keys away from him.
(If only half of what's being reported he's doing )

I?d bet a decent amount of money it won?t be Leach. He is a hot name in most searches at one point and then he isn?t. Plus, his contract currently is nuts for what you?d get from a value standpoint.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

Of a hire. Yeah I know there are other threads talking about him. But I didn't see one that says hiring Leach will be a disaster.

Please. Someone step up and take Cohens phone and keys away from him.
(If only half of what's being reported he's doing )

But he's a proven winner...in the Big 12 and PAC 12. He would fit right in with the SEC West. Plus the most important thing, He will be entertaining in interviews.*

[bluelightstar]

Wouldn't be able to recruit in our recruiting ground.

[Anonymous]

His recruiting is between 44 - 60. No chance that level recruiting makes you competitive. He might can coach his ass off but bottom line is you have to at least have a minimum talent level to compete in the SEC West.


Exactly, his recruiting is 44-60, and he still wins. Now imagine what he could do here with top 20-30 classes.

We need an offensive guy who can put up points against anyone. Given even a decent DC, our defense will always be fairly good due to where we are. Look at the talent that comes out of Mississippi, and specifically to State over the last 20 years, the state is an absolute hotbed for defensive recruiting. That talent isn't going anywhere, it's in the state every year. We need a coach who can bring in what we don't already home grow organically, which is an elite passing game.

[MedDawg]

Kentucky went 5-6 and 7-5 with Leach as OC and an NFL QB

UK went 1-10, 4-7, and 4-7 before Mumme and Leach got there. They took UK to the Outback Bowl and had only been to 1 bowl in the 12 years prior. 7-5 was their best record in 13 years.

[Really Clark?]

UK went 1-10, 4-7, and 4-7 before Mumme and Leach got there. They took UK to the Outback Bowl and had only been to 1 bowl in the 12 years prior. 7-5 was their best record in 13 years.

Yeah and Mumme flamed out and went 2-9 just 2 years later and was removed. Guy Morriss was the replacement who also worked developing the offense and lasted 2 years (went to Baylor and bombed as well).

Also, I have yet to see one person allude to the fact that large a part of the reason they did get better and the offense improved was the fact that Mumme and the staff put UK on probation for huge recruiting violations including paying players. They were also tied up in the Albert Means saga. They came in hot with illegal benefits and it got them 5, 6, 7, 2 wins under Mumme.

[smootness]

Kentucky went 5-6 and 7-5 with Leach as OC and an NFL QB

You can pull numbers out of context with the best of them.

They won 1, 4, and 4, games in the 3 years preceding those two. Than 7-5 year was better than the 13 years that preceded it and the 7 years that followed it.

If anything, the success of that offense even back in the late 90's proves the offense would do just fine in today's SEC.

[DLGDawg]

But he's a proven winner...in the Big 12 and PAC 12. He would fit right in with the SEC West. Plus the most important thing, He will be entertaining in interviews.*

I know Leach is a good coach. My point is that where our program is right now vs where it was when Mullet left is why Moorhead was fired. Right? I feel that we need a different type of leader at this point.
Leach is entertaining, quirky, rain man ish. Is that the type man that will bring our program back up to where we want it?? Gain the respect of the players? I don't know the answer.
In my humble opinion, Leach is not the answer AT THIS TIME.

When Mullet left, I would have been all for Leach. Certain standards were set in place. I think Leach could have at least maintained that.

[smootness]

Yeah and Mumme flamed out and went 2-9 just 2 years later and was removed.

So it sounds like Leach was pretty instrumental to the success.

[Really Clark?]

So it sounds like Leach was pretty instrumental to the success.

And the massive cheating that busted them in just 2 years.

[Spiderman]

Yeah and Mumme flamed out and went 2-9 just 2 years later and was removed. Guy Morriss was the replacement who also worked developing the offense and lasted 2 years (went to Baylor and bombed as well).

Also, I have yet to see one person allude to the fact that large a part of the reason they did get better and the offense improved was the fact that Mumme and the staff put UK on probation for huge recruiting violations including paying players. They were also tied up in the Albert Means saga. They came in hot with illegal benefits and it got them 5, 6, 7, 2 wins under Mumme.

They went down offensively when Leach left. In the book, Perfect Pass, they talk about how Leach was Mumme's security blanket.

That when Mumme, who was a 2 back guy at heart, wanted to get conservative or go back to his old ways, it was Leach in his ear saying NO. Be more aggressive. Take more chances. Don't be scared to try it. And Mumme would push the limits even more.

One thing you can say about Leach, he is fearless when it come to coaching

[Really Clark?]

You can pull numbers out of context with the best of them.

They won 1, 4, and 4, games in the 3 years preceding those two. Than 7-5 year was better than the 13 years that preceded it and the 7 years that followed it.

If anything, the success of that offense even back in the late 90's proves the offense would do just fine in today's SEC.

Massive paying of recruits did more of that than just the offense

[Spiderman]

Massive paying of recruits did more of that than just the offense

That was after Leach had left and was one rouge assistant with just a couple of players. You really ought to research that and see that Mumme probably should have sued folks over that deal. It was a wild story

[Tbonewannabe]

Exactly, his recruiting is 44-60, and he still wins. Now imagine what he could do here with top 20-30 classes.

We need an offensive guy who can put up points against anyone. Given even a decent DC, our defense will always be fairly good due to where we are. Look at the talent that comes out of Mississippi, and specifically to State over the last 20 years, the state is an absolute hotbed for defensive recruiting. That talent isn't going anywhere, it's in the state every year. We need a coach who can bring in what we don't already home grow organically, which is an elite passing game.

The more I think about Leach, the more I am warming up to him. I am just so damn scared to get another "offensive genius" whose offense doesn't work in the SEC.

Napier's offense is very similar to Mullen's offense. Sark has been in the SEC for a while now. Grantham knows the SEC well and supposedly will bring a guy to run the spread like Mullen. Hudspeth runs a version of the spread and we kind of know what he would do. Leach just seems like a wild card. The wild card can win for you or randomly cut your brakes and jump out of the back of the van (Always Sunny reference for anyone interested).

[Really Clark?]

They went down offensively when Leach left. In the book, Perfect Pass, they talk about how Leach was Mumme's security blanket.

That when Mumme, who was a 2 back guy at heart, wanted to get conservative or go back to his old ways, it was Leach in his ear saying NO. Be more aggressive. Take more chances. Don't be scared to try it. And Mumme would push the limits even more.

One thing you can say about Leach, he is fearless when it come to coaching

Oh I don’t disagree but the buying of recruits was a big part of how they went to 7 wins as quickly as they did. And Morriss wasn’t on the same level as Leach. Not even close but Kentucky thought he could get it back. I just want everyone to have context of how that 7-5 team...that was their best team, was actually built. Leach is a great offensive mind and they set records but that wasn’t the only reason they got to 7-5.

[smootness]

And the massive cheating that busted them in just 2 years.

Yeah, because Kentucky was swimming in football talent in 97-98.

They went 2-9 in 2000 before the sanctions came down. They weren't recruiting well.

[smootness]

Oh I don’t disagree but the buying of recruits was a big part of how they went to 7 wins as quickly as they did. And Morriss wasn’t on the same level as Leach. Not even close but Kentucky thought he could get it back. I just want everyone to have context of how that 7-5 team...that was their best team, was actually built. Leach is a great offensive mind and they set records but that wasn’t the only reason they got to 7-5.

So give me the recruits they brought in after Mumme was hired that were instrumental to that 1998 team.

[Spiderman]

Oh I don’t disagree but the buying of recruits was a big part of how they went to 7 wins as quickly as they did. And Morriss wasn’t on the same level as Leach. Not even close but Kentucky thought he could get it back. I just want everyone to have context of how that 7-5 team...that was their best team, was actually built. Leach is a great offensive mind and they set records but that wasn’t the only reason they got to 7-5.

They didn't have anyone that good except Couch, and he was recruited by the previous staff.

And the players they inherited from Curry were all recruited to play in a 2 and 3 back offense that ran the I Bone.

[Tbonewannabe]

They didn't have anyone that good except Couch, and he was recruited by the previous staff.

And the players they inherited from Curry were all recruited to play in a 2 and 3 back offense that ran the I Bone.

In your opinion, do we have the players currently on the team that would do well in Leach's offense? Our QBs other than Will Rogers are probably more of the run first type of QB. Would it take another year of recruiting to get his type of players?

[smootness]

In your opinion, do we have the players currently on the team that would do well in Leach's offense? Our QBs other than Will Rogers are probably more of the run first type of QB. Would it take another year of recruiting to get his type of players?

It would certainly take a year or two for the offense to start really clicking. The question is simply whether he is the right guy long-term, not necessarily whether or not the success in 2020 would be maximized.

[Spiderman]

In your opinion, do we have the players currently on the team that would do well in Leach's offense? Our QBs other than Will Rogers are probably more of the run first type of QB. Would it take another year of recruiting to get his type of players?

I do, to an extent. GS's accuracy concerns me. And that's Leach's big deal with QB's. Rogers being a freshman is a concern. But with the WR's we have coming in plus Williams and Payton, and the 2 redshirts, I think we would be fine. If you can catch, you will play. An intriguing guy would be Cumbest at the Y position. He looks like the great ones Leach has has had at that position. Problem is he seems to be more about baseball. If Hill doesn't come back, I think it would fit Witherspoon. He's more of a space player.

I will say Hill could be special in it. As much as Leach throws to the RB.

Here is the deal, look at our roster and tell me what coach is gonna put up big numbers? Especially if Hill is gone.

[Tbonewannabe]

I do, to an extent. GS's accuracy concerns me. And that's Leach's big deal with QB's. Rogers being a freshman is a concern. But with the WR's we have coming in plus Williams and Payton, and the 2 redshirts, I think we would be fine. If you can catch, you will play. An intriguing guy would be Cumbest at the Y position. He looks like the great ones Leach has has had at that position. Problem is he seems to be more about baseball. If Hill doesn't come back, I think it would fit Witherspoon. He's more of a space player.

Here is the deal, look at our roster and tell me what coach is gonna put up big numbers? Especially if Hill is gone.

I don't know but I do know we have a lot more options to do well if we run the spread that Mullen installed. We have 3 QBs that could run the power spread and do well, I am not sure we have a QB that would do "well" in Leach's system. Of course that could also be said of Sark's offense, although he did well with Hurts.

If you told me that next year would be a 5 win season with Leach and then would be 8-11 win seasons after then I would be ok with it. The problem would be if we are getting blown out, would the fans stay until 2021. Today's culture doesn't want to wait. Some people think we were too quick with Moorhead and he had two years of shitty offensive results in SEC games. If we struggled against NC State right out the gate next year then it would be rough.

[Santiago]

They didn't have anyone that good except Couch, and he was recruited by the previous staff.

And the players they inherited from Curry were all recruited to play in a 2 and 3 back offense that ran the I Bone.

I think I read that Couch was considering transferring from Kentucky until Mumme and Leach entered the scene there. So they are the reason that Couch stayed.

[smootness]

I don't know but I do know we have a lot more options to do well if we run the spread that Mullen installed. We have 3 QBs that could run the power spread and do well, I am not sure we have a QB that would do "well" in Leach's system. Of course that could also be said of Sark's offense, although he did well with Hurts.

If you told me that next year would be a 5 win season with Leach and then would be 8-11 win seasons after then I would be ok with it. The problem would be if we are getting blown out, would the fans stay until 2021. Today's culture doesn't want to wait. Some people think we were too quick with Moorhead and he had two years of shitty offensive results in SEC games. If we struggled against NC State right out the gate next year then it would be rough.

I can assure you, Mike Leach will put up better offensive numbers, at least by year 2, than anybody else we could possibly hire.

[Really Clark?]

That was after Leach had left and was one rouge assistant with just a couple of players. You really ought to research that and see that Mumme probably should have sued folks over that deal. It was a wild story

What? Franklin testified that if it was wide spread and occurred before and after Bassett and that the administration was complicit and wanted it all to fall on Bassett. Mumme state’s that Bell and the Admin wanted everything tied to Bassett and it was in the university’s best interest. The NCAA cut a bunch of deals with Ark, TN, GA, and Kentucky to nail the Albert Means case. Even with that they still got hit hard losing 19 scholarships and bowl eligibility. And it wasn’t a few athletes but over a dozen listed in the NCAA report and we know how that goes and how many there really were.

[Spiderman]

I think I read that Couch was considering transferring from Kentucky until Mumme and Leach entered the scene there. So they are the reason that Couch stayed.

He was. Dumbass Curry was trying to make him a option QB.

Here's another Leach story that shows how he ticks...

Couch was the Top QB in the nation. Mumme and Leach were at Valdosta St. Leach comes in and asks Mumme if he can go recruit Couch.

Mumme about laughs him out of the office. Leach insists and Mumme says go ahead. Mumme said Leach recruited him like they were Notre Dame.That Leach was fearless and wasn't worried about being shunned.

Of course Couch wasn't gonna go, but he was intrigued by what they were doing. So when they got hired at Kentucky, Couch, because he knew Leach and knew what they were gonna do, stayed at KY. Mumme said he wasn't sure if Couch would have stayed without the prior contact.

So you never know.

[smootness]

What? Franklin testified that if it was wide spread and occurred before and after Bassett and that the administration was complicit and wanted it all to fall on Bassett. Mumme state’s that Bell and the Admin wanted everything tied to Bassett and it was in the university’s best interest. The NCAA cut a bunch of deals with Ark, TN, GA, and Kentucky to nail the Albert Means case. Even with that they still got hit hard losing 19 scholarships and bowl eligibility. And it wasn’t a few athletes but over a dozen listed in the NCAA report and we know how that goes and how many there really were.

Regardless, they weren't able to make the players they had work nearly as well either before or after Leach.

[Spiderman]

What? Franklin testified that if it was wide spread and occurred before and after Bassett and that the administration was complicit and wanted it all to fall on Bassett. Mumme state’s that Bell and the Admin wanted everything tied to Bassett and it was in the university’s best interest. The NCAA cut a bunch of deals with Ark, TN, GA, and Kentucky to nail the Albert Means case. Even with that they still got hit hard losing 19 scholarships and bowl eligibility. And it wasn’t a few athletes but over a dozen listed in the NCAA report and we know how that goes and how many there really were.

It's Mumme that was the HC. Why are you saying Leach is tainted? Again, name a player on that 98 team they "paid" that made them winners.

Leach hasn't had a hint of major NCAA problems since he has been a HC in 18 years.

So how has he won at 2 bottom feeding P5's at 60%? He been cheating ?

If so, he is a master at it by not getting caught

[smootness]

It's Mumme that was the HC. Why are you saying Leach is tainted? Again, name a player on that 98 team they "paid" that made them winners.

Leach hasn't had a hint of major NCAA problems since he has been a HC in 18 years.

So how has he won at 12 bottom feeding P5's at 60%? He been cheating ?

If so, he is a master at it by not getting caught

He's also a master at getting the recruiting services to underrate his studs, too, apparently.

[Really Clark?]

Regardless, they weren't able to make the players they had work nearly as well either before or after Leach.

I mean yeah,it was a bad team before they got there, cheated to get them to 7 and 6 wins tops. I’ve never said he hasn’t put up points but the actual wins and losses, with them cheating and putting up offensive numbers, still was 5, 7, 6, 2 wins. And Morriss was still running it but the NCAA investigating them during that time hurt, of course he wasn’t near as good. And I’ve never included Morriss in the discussion about his offense in the SEC like with Franklin, Brown, Sumlin with Spavtial, etc. because the investigation really hurt anything Morriss and Kentucky was trying to do at that time.

[smootness]

I mean yeah,it was a bad team before they got there, cheated to get them to 7 and 6 wins tops. I’ve never said he hasn’t put up points but the actual wins and losses, with them cheating and putting up offensive numbers, still was 5, 7, 6, 2 wins. And Morriss was still running it but the NCAA investigating them during that time hurt, of course he wasn’t near as good. And I’ve never included Morriss in the discussion about his offense in the SEC like with Franklin, Brown, Sumlin with Spavtial, etc. because the investigation really hurt anything Morriss and Kentucky was trying to do at that time.

So did the cheating start with Mumme?

And once again, tell me these players they cheated to get.

BTW: Players drafted each year at UK:
87 - 3
88 - 4
89 - 4
90 - 3
91 - 2
92 - 0
93 - 4
94 - 3
95 - 1
96 - 2
97 - 2
98 - 1
99 - 2
00 - 1
01 - 3

Man, they really loaded up those years.

[Really Clark?]

It's Mumme that was the HC. Why are you saying Leach is tainted? Again, name a player on that 98 team they "paid" that made them winners.

Leach hasn't had a hint of major NCAA problems since he has been a HC in 18 years.

So how has he won at 2 bottom feeding P5's at 60%? He been cheating ?

If so, he is a master at it by not getting caught

Whoa. I never said that but everybody keeps touting his time with Kentucky, forgetting all the other coaches from his tree that has come in trying to make it work, and how great Mumme and Leach were. I always said they put up great numbers but the wins and losses wasn’t as great and the turn around has to be contributed to them cutting corners and paying recruits as well. At no time have I said that was tied to Leach. Like I said in the very first post, that time has to have context and Kentucky was cheating massively enough to get 3 years probation, loss of a postseason and 19 scholarship reductions and this is after cutting a deal and testifying in the Bama, Logan Young, Means deal. That’s bad and you have to acknowledge that it helped. But I agree I honestly don’t think Leach was wrapped up in that at all and has never had that taint.

[sandwolf]

Napier, Sark, or Leach would all be great hires
Agreed.

[Spiderman]

I mean yeah,it was a bad team before they got there, cheated to get them to 7 and 6 wins tops. I’ve never said he hasn’t put up points but the actual wins and losses, with them cheating and putting up offensive numbers, still was 5, 7, 6, 2 wins. And Morriss was still running it but the NCAA investigating them during that time hurt, of course he wasn’t near as good. And I’ve never included Morriss in the discussion about his offense in the SEC like with Franklin, Brown, Sumlin with Spavtial, etc. because the investigation really hurt anything Morriss and Kentucky was trying to do at that time.

You keep saying they cheating to get to 7 wins. Who did they cheat to bring in that helped them win gameson offense BEFORE Leach left?

[smootness]

Whoa. I never said that but everybody keeps touting his time with Kentucky, forgetting all the other coaches from his tree that has come in trying to make it work, and how great Mumme and Leach were. I always said they put up great numbers but the wins and losses wasn’t as great and the turn around has to be contributed to them cutting corners and paying recruits as well. At no time have I said that was tied to Leach. Like I said in the very first post, that time has to have context and Kentucky was cheating massively enough to get 3 years probation, loss of a postseason and 19 scholarship reductions and this is after cutting a deal and testifying in the Bama, Logan Young, Means deal. That’s bad and you have to acknowledge that it helped. But I agree I honestly don’t think Leach was wrapped up in that at all and has never had that taint.

I do not have to acknowledge that any cheating helped because I can't identify the players they apparently got with all this cheating. And who cares what any other coaches in the tree did? We are talking about Leach. Sumlin did have some offensive success in the SEC, and it's not like he's done nearly as well in the Pac-12 as Leach has, either. You conveniently leave off Kingsbury as well.

[Really Clark?]

So did the cheating start with Mumme?

And once again, tell me these players they cheated to get.

BTW: Players drafted each year at UK:
87 - 3
88 - 4
89 - 4
90 - 3
91 - 2
92 - 0
93 - 4
94 - 3
95 - 1
96 - 2
97 - 2
98 - 1
99 - 2
00 - 1
01 - 3

Man, they really loaded up those years.

Your right. The paying of recruits didn’t happen. Kentucky didn’t turn themselves in for over a dozen of violations because they were about to get ripped with the Albert Means situation and needed a scape goat with Bassett (who was extremely dirty), and it was ridiculous they got 19 scholarship reductions.

They cheated, brought in more talent than they had, rather if they were drafted or not, they also did a good job with what was left, especially with Couch. It got them 5, 7, 6, and 2 wins.

And none of that has anything to do with how good I think Leach is. He is good. His offense has been in the league multiple times in some fashion and it’s mostly, at best, looked like it did them. Lots of points put up, get beat by a lot of points a lot as well. Or in some cases horrid. It has to be brought up has a huge question mark and study. A & M with athletes growing up running this or a version of this, recruiting at a high level and it didn’t work like they thought it would.

[Spiderman]

I do not have to acknowledge that any cheating helped because I can't identify the players they apparently got with all this cheating. And who cares what any other coaches in the tree did? We are talking about Leach. Sumlin did have some offensive success in the SEC, and it's not like he's done nearly as well in the Pac-12 as Leach has, either. You conveniently leave off Kingsbury as well.

And Lincoln Reily

Sumlin isn't half as smart as Leach. It is what it is. Here is a problem the Sumlin's, Holgo's and even Kingsbury has.... they start monkeying with the system. They keep adding to it. And that defeats the purpose of Leach's system, it's simplicity.

When you complicate things, as Leach says, you start thinking instead of playing. His deal, as I heard him say, is that the coaches should be the only ones thinking.

Holgo is famous for saying "Leach don't change shit"

What he means is if a coach comes up with a new concept Leach likes, or he does himself, they have to take an existing play out. Never over complicate things.

Another thing I heard him say is " if you practice a whole lot of stuff, you aren't practicing a whole lot."

[Santiago]

Regardless, they weren't able to make the players they had work nearly as well either before or after Leach.

Bob Stoops at the time the DC for Florida - chose Leach as his OC when he took the OU job. So the best SEC DC at the time, wanted Leach to run his offense at his first gig as HC at OU.

[deadheaddawg]

To anyone putting UKs probation on leach......I really hope you are not hypocritical enough to be one of the guys wanting HUD

[smootness]

Your right. The paying of recruits didn’t happen. Kentucky didn’t turn themselves in for over a dozen of violations because they were about to get ripped with the Albert Means situation and needed a scape goat with Bassett (who was extremely dirty), and it was ridiculous they got 19 scholarship reductions.

They cheated, brought in more talent than they had, rather if they were drafted or not, they also did a good job with what was left, especially with Couch. It got them 5, 7, 6, and 2 wins.

And none of that has anything to do with how good I think Leach is. He is good. His offense has been in the league multiple times in some fashion and it’s mostly, at best, looked like it did them. Lots of points put up, get beat by a lot of points a lot as well. Or in some cases horrid. It has to be brought up has a huge question mark and study. A & M with athletes growing up running this or a version of this, recruiting at a high level and it didn’t work like they thought it would.

You just keep saying 'they cheated' as though that clearly means they were at an unfair advantage in 97-98. When in reality, even if this cheating resulted in better players in any way (which there is no indication it actually did), those players would have started having an impact on wins around 99, after Leach left. So you could actually use the cheating in Leach's favor to say that even with better players, Kentucky could not win as much as they did when Leach was OC, which was far more than they won before that as well.

It's still on you to show how they had better players and how those players were making an impact in 97-98. Because from all other measures, it looks like it was the same old Kentucky aside from Leach's short time there.

[Spiderman]

Bob Stoops at the time the DC for Florida - chose Leach as his OC when he took the OU job. So the best SEC DC at the time, wanted Leach to run his offense at his first gig as HC at OU.

yep

[Really Clark?]

I do not have to acknowledge that any cheating helped because I can't identify the players they apparently got with all this cheating. And who cares what any other coaches in the tree did? We are talking about Leach. Sumlin did have some offensive success in the SEC, and it's not like he's done nearly as well in the Pac-12 as Leach has, either. You conveniently leave off Kingsbury as well.

No I’ve mentioned Kingsbury prior but maybe that was another thread. That’s a tough deal to place your finger own because of Manziel a Heisman player and it was the first season. So that’s a question of does he stay and the output stay the same or did it take the defenses a little bit to adjust. We do know that it was not as good with Spavital who is also directly tied to the Leach tree. Also, with how good Leach was at TT, Kingsbury was pretty below average. 35-40. So that’s a mixed bag. And I’ve also stated that Heupel had a really good second year with Mizzou. First year sucked though. I’ve also talked about how he has had a ton of offensive success everywhere he has been but some of the same issues have popped up with while he or his offense puts up a lot of points, they give it up a lot as well. In this league or even today. His record vs the SEC is very sparse so not much we can tell about that. Played UM 3 times, won 2 of those but that was in the Cutcliff days and beat Eli I believe. 0-2 since to Bama and OM (the Cotton Bowl with Nutt). So that’s hard to draw much from.

[smootness]

No I’ve mentioned Kingsbury prior but maybe that was another thread. That’s a tough deal to place your finger own because of Manziel a Heisman player and it was the first season. So that’s a question of does he stay and the output stay the same or did it take the defenses a little bit to adjust. We do know that it was not as good with Spavital who is also directly tied to the Leach tree. Also, with how good Leach was at TT, Kingsbury was pretty below average. 35-40. So that’s a mixed bag. And I’ve also stated that Heupel had a really good second year with Mizzou. First year sucked though. I’ve also talked about how he has had a ton of offensive success everywhere he has been but some of the same issues have popped up with while he or his offense puts up a lot of points, they give it up a lot as well. In this league or even today. His record vs the SEC is very sparse so not much we can tell about that. Played UM 3 times, won 2 of those but that was in the Cutcliff days and beat Eli I believe. 0-2 since to Bama and OM (the Cotton Bowl with Nutt). So that’s hard to draw much from.

You're saying Kingsbury's time at TT means it's a mixed bag for Leach's offense? Kingsbury was not a good HC but his offenses did fine...and regardless, we have direct evidence of what Leach himself would do at TT...and it's better than Kingsbury. Even still, Kingsbury's one year in the SEC produced an incredible offense.

This is pretty insane nitpicking over Leach's resume that no other candidate is going to bring. Can we investigate every coach who has come from a similar tree as Napier to see how successful he would be? Because he was an Alabama assistant after all. And the Saban coaching tree has produced Muschamp, McElwain, and Dooley, and they are not good SEC coaches. So that tree is busted, can't hire Napier. Sarkisian is from the Carroll tree, which produced Ed Orgeron, and when he initially left Carroll, he failed majorly in the SEC. Sarkisian now also has the stink of the Saban tree in addition to that, so you can't hire him, either. So who do we hire?

Leach has proven himself at least to the extent to get a shot in the SEC. I'm not saying we have to hire him or that he's even the best possible candidate, but the idea that by looking at others in the coaching tree and his previous, successful stint as an OC in the SEC, we can say that his offense wouldn't work or that it shouldn't be tried is ridiculous.

[Spiderman]

You're saying Kingsbury's time at TT means it's a mixed bag for Leach's offense? Kingsbury was not a good HC but his offenses did fine...and regardless, we have direct evidence of what Leach himself would do at TT...and it's better than Kingsbury. Even still, Kingsbury's one year in the SEC produced an incredible offense.

This is pretty insane nitpicking over Leach's resume that no other candidate is going to bring. Can we investigate every coach who has come from a similar tree as Napier to see how successful he would be? Because he was an Alabama assistant after all. And the Saban coaching tree has produced Muschamp, McElwain, and Dooley, and they are not good SEC coaches. So that tree is busted, can't hire Napier. Sarkisian is from the Carroll tree, which produced Ed Orgeron, and when he initially left Carroll, he failed majorly in the SEC. Sarkisian now also has the stink of the Saban tree in addition to that, so you can't hire him, either. So who do we hire?

Leach has proven himself at least to the extent to get a shot in the SEC. I'm not saying we have to hire him or that he's even the best possible candidate, but the idea that by looking at others in the coaching tree and his previous, successful stint as an OC in the SEC, we can say that his offense wouldn't work or that it shouldn't be tried is ridiculous.

Thanks for posting that. Was gonna post exact sme thing but was too lazy to type it all

[tcdog70]

I refuse to believe Leach is a serious candidate. Maybe Cohen gave him an interview but he has to be option 10 for Cohen. No way those two could co-exist.

DUDE--in the past we have hired Shira-Croom -and JoMo---so Leach would be a vast improvement over these duds.

[FISHDAWG]

Akili King and Ryan Leaf were "NFL" QB's. Couch was a bust in the NFL

and when Couch was in broadcasting he picked Jackson State to upset us ... he was also a bust in the booth

[Percho]

Leach knows people say he can't win in the SEC. If he wants this job he knows what he is up against with the schedule and recruiting..

He would not come here to ride off into the sunset. Especially since he knows this isn't the old MSU. We will fire your ass. Bowl games are not enough. The program has to be going up.

He's a smart guy..I believe he was an attorney before he was a coach.....he knows what people say. He knows what he up against.

I think he will have a chip on his shoulder. I think he wants to prove he can run with the big boys.

I don't know if it will work, but the idea of Mike leach with a chip on his shoulders, maybe coaching with more fire than ever.....the thought of that I can get behind and support

Would he take 3 mil a year to prove himself in the SEC and let us hire him the best defensive and recruiting guys?

[DLGDawg]

I will pull for him with all I got.

[Percho]

I dont know what he took but he the man.

[OSCAR]

Bump

[bigplayslay]

Bump

So we can make a judgement after three games? LOL

[Quaoarsking]

Bump

The OP is as dumb now as it was then. Leach is a badass and a winner.

[Commercecomet24]

The OP is as dumb now as it was then. Leach is a badass and a winner.

Yes, Thank you, Q!

[OSCAR]

No judgement should be passed yet, but many are, so I figured this thread was relevant. It is always interesting to me to read the old comments.