If Joe Judge played at UAB....

[DogsofAnarchy]

then was a Special Teams Lifer (which he has been) how many of you would really want him as a Head Coach in then SEC West? He cannot be who Cohen wants. I don’t care about these supposed assistant coaches. Some of those are pipe dreams. We have to have someone with more experience.

[Big4Dawg]

If Joe Judge was being interviewed for a NFL head coaching job, how many of you would want him as Head Coach?

It's going to be telling if McDaniels leaves and he gets promoted as OC

[HoopsDawg]

But he didn't play at UAB. He played at MSU. And he was a special teams coach under Belichick, not Croom. John Harbaugh went from special teams coach to coach of the Ravens and he may be named coach of the year.

[chef dixon]

Yes would be super random and WTF. But it does matter that he played here. Fit and his passion matters. Doesn't mean he is the guy but it helps. Sometimes a guy thats not super focused on offense or defense is a much better HC as well.

[HoopsDawg]

Yes would be super random and WTF. But it does matter that he played here. Fit and his passion matters. Doesn't mean he is the guy but it helps. Sometimes a guy thats not super focused on offense or defense is a much better HC as well.

Yeah, I almost view it as a positive than he's not a system guy. The game evolves and sometimes a head coach that's married to a system won't change. Give me a smart leader, who can coach his coaches, and build a culture over a guy with a flashy system all day long.

[Wade Garrett]

But he didn't. He played at MSU. And he was a special teams coach under Belichick, not Croom. John Harbaugh went from special teams coach to coach of the Ravens and he may be named coach of the year.

Belicheck also started as a special teams coach

[Big4Dawg]

So did Harbaugh

[HoopsDawg]

Belicheck also started as a special teams coach

He did, but he was the defensive coordinator under Bill Parcells before he became the head coach.

[DogsofAnarchy]

Incumbered by idiots...I pushed on.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

Belicheck also started as a special teams coach

Does Belicheck recruiting 16-18 year old kids? Why can?t you people realize that NFL experience don?t mean success as a college coach. Much different environment

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I dont think dogsofanarchy was saying that because Joe Judge is a "ST lifer" hes for sure not our guy. I'm sure he agrees that hiring a coach is a crapshoot and good coaches can come from the ST ranks

But the fact good coaches can come from that level doesnt mean he's one of them either. I mean Dabo was a WR coach, but kve yet to see the name of one WR coach this whole search. Why? Because it's about playing the odds:

A proven HC is more likely to work here than a proven coordinator, who's more likely to work than a ST coach. You cant deny that from a % standpoint.

His point in asking "would you want him if he didnt play here" is that whether Judge played at State or UAB has absolutely no bearing on his coaching abilities. It means he cares about us, or means he knows what he'd be stepping into, but it doesnt make him a better coach.

All that said, I think judge pay be our best option if Napier truly isn't going to accept our offer. I still think he will though and was just trying to win 11 games in peace

[Wade Garrett]

Does Belicheck recruiting 16-18 year old kids? Why can?t you people realize that NFL experience don?t mean success as a college coach. Much different environment

Lighten up Frances. if I have offended you by pointing out a fact that several good coaches started out as a special teams coaches my apologies. I never said anything about a NFL coach being a good college head coach.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

Lighten up Frances. if I have offended you by pointing out a fact that several good coaches started out as a special teams coaches my apologies. I never said anything about a NFL coach being a good college head coach.

Haha so you are just pointing out just to point it out? You has to be pointing it out to prove that Judge as a Special Teams coach could succeed because Bill B started out the same way

[Todd4State]

Would you have wanted Ed Orgeron three years ago as head coach?

And what "pipe dreams" as assistants are we talking about here? Todd Grantham the guy who was our DC two years ago who has a son on the baseball team? Yeah- no way he would listen.**

The thing is Judge has a decent chance at becoming a NFL head coach one day. That's pretty attractive to high level assistants- especially if we pay like we are rumored to.

[HoopsDawg]

Incumbered by idiots...I pushed on.

"Encumbered". LOL.

[C222]

then was a Special Teams Lifer (which he has been) how many of you would really want him as a Head Coach in then SEC West? He cannot be who Cohen wants. I don?t care about these supposed assistant coaches. Some of those are pipe dreams. We have to have someone with more experience.

Like who?

[Cowbell]

Incumbered by idiots...I pushed on.

Well you probably need to state some more facts here. You are selling the guy short a bit. Also a WR coach. Best dynasty of pro football in recent memory. Under the best coach. Just interviewed to be HC of NEw York football giants.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Would you have wanted Ed Orgeron three years ago as head coach?

And what "pipe dreams" as assistants are we talking about here? Todd Grantham the guy who was our DC two years ago who has a son on the baseball team? Yeah- no way he would listen.**

The thing is Judge has a decent chance at becoming a NFL head coach one day. That's pretty attractive to high level assistants- especially if we pay like we are rumored to.

Ed O turned out to be a great retred. For all we know Chiz might be the next, yet none of us want him. Again all coaches are gambles, you have to play the odds.

Moreover Grantham is making almost 2M a year at a school that's more likely to have ADs sniffing around it than they are here. Diaz, Collins, Dan, Addazio too right? These are the UF coordinators to get HC jobs. It's stupid but ADs look at blue bloods if they want to hire an assistant, they dont look at State. So Grantham is more likely to be a HC if he stays a UF. Lastly, it's a lot easier to recruit there and that means it's easier maintain good Ds, which means he more likely to get a HC job.

So Granthsm does have his son here, but we probably can't give him a pay raise and probably aren't what's best for his career future.

And as far as assistants go, a guy with a lot of coaching history will have a lot more relationships. Those seem to matter more in the coaching world than how highly thought of you were by others.

For the record if Napier really is out I want Judge. But I'm not going to sugar coat what he is- a complete gamble. He could be pocket aces or 2-8 off suit. We have no idea because hes never ran anything, not even an offense.

[OLJWales]

good info on the board says he and Cohen's gonna have a sit down. Why not? if the NYG are looking at him (prolly not gonna happen) why not us? Do you seriously think we are above interviewing a guy whose interviewing for a head gig for an NFL team is beneath us? damn.

[DownwardDawg]

Would you have wanted Ed Orgeron three years ago as head coach?

And what "pipe dreams" as assistants are we talking about here? Todd Grantham the guy who was our DC two years ago who has a son on the baseball team? Yeah- no way he would listen.**

The thing is Judge has a decent chance at becoming a NFL head coach one day. That's pretty attractive to high level assistants- especially if we pay like we are rumored to.

Great points. I would have puked if we had hired Orgeron!!! Lol.

[Maroonthirteen]

I get what you're saying.

No, every State fan would be upset and asking who?????

Just go back to October and look at the threads of replacements. All head coaches somewhere and mostly P5. Now our nuts are on the table.... and people are talking up an assistant in the nfl. Very Croomish candidate.

[C222]

I get what you're saying.


No, every State fan would be upset and asking who?????

Just go back to October and look at the threads of replacements. All head coaches somewhere and mostly P5. Now our nuts are on the table.... and people are talking up an assistant in the nfl. Very Croomish candidate.

Who would you suggest?

[Really Clark?]

Does Belicheck recruiting 16-18 year old kids? Why can?t you people realize that NFL experience don?t mean success as a college coach. Much different environment

You know it would be interesting to look at guys who were mainly NFL guys coming to the college ranks as HC and how they have done the last 20 years or so.

[Todd4State]

Ed O turned out to be a great retred. For all we know Chiz might be the next, yet none of us want him. Again all coaches are gambles, you have to play the odds.

Moreover Grantham is making almost 2M a year at a school that's more likely to have ADs sniffing around it than they are here. Diaz, Collins, Dan, Addazio too right? These are the UF coordinators to get HC jobs. It's stupid but ADs look at blue bloods if they want to hire an assistant, they dont look at State. So Grantham is more likely to be a HC if he stays a UF. Lastly, it's a lot easier to recruit there and that means it's easier maintain good Ds, which means he more likely to get a HC job.

So Granthsm does have his son here, but we probably can't give him a pay raise and probably aren't what's best for his career future.

And as far as assistants go, a guy with a lot of coaching history will have a lot more relationships. Those seem to matter more in the coaching world than how highly thought of you were by others.

For the record if Napier really is out I want Judge. But I'm not going to sugar coat what he is- a complete gamble. He could be pocket aces or 2-8 off suit. We have no idea because hes never ran anything, not even an offense.

The difference is Coach O has an emotional connection to LSU. Just like Judge has one to us. That's not everything- but it is something. Chizik based on what I can tell is emotionally attached to Auburn. Basically has come out and said that he is always going to have a home there no matter what. In a way- the O/LSU set-up worked at Auburn with Chizik as well when they had Mahlzahn as OC and Ted Roof as their DC. Things fell apart completely once their coordinators left- went 14-0 with Cam and then a respectable 8-5 the next year with the same staff.

Grantham is going to totally depend on the price point. If we hire a coach for 4.1 million we could probably go as high as 2.3-2.5 million which Florida could certainly counter. I'm fine with causing them collateral damage even if we don't get Grantham honestly. Grantham makes 1.8 currently I believe. I'd offer 2 million and see if he bites.

[MedDawg]

His point in asking "would you want him if he didnt play here" is that whether Judge played at State or UAB has absolutely no bearing on his coaching abilities. It means he cares about us, or means he knows what he'd be stepping into, but it doesnt make him a better coach.


It has no bearing on his coaching abilities, but it does have bearing on whether he will be job shopping at the first sign of success. Mullen did, and it affected the end of a few (or several) seasons. You know Kiffin will bolt OM if he wins. A successful Joe Judge would be more likely to stay at State than many others, Napier included. Being a former MSU player and GA, Judge might not even leave State for a top NCAA job, especially since we could pay him whatever is necessary.

Fans who say, "I don't care if they leave if they are successful here" haven't been paying attention. Mullen's job shopping and the difficulty in finding another successful coach after he left show there should be at least some concern whether a new coach would be prone to leave early.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I just dont get how people here go "I can find another coach that was successful who came from a similar spot, therefore X candidate would be amazing here!". This is basic logic.

Just because Ed O was mocked and it turned out great meay anyway doesnt mean Judge would also be a great hire. Hell Chiz has more in common with Ed O and nobody wants that. And just because great coaches sometimes come from NFL assistant ranks doesnt mean Judge will be good. Look at Croom.

Judge may be the next Saban. But the logic I'm seeing used to defend him is what I expect from my 5 year old.

Play the odds. Judge may be better than Napier but who would you rather have? The proven guy, that's who. Chiz may be better than Judge, but most of us agree Judge is more likely to work out for us than Chiz and wed take Judge.

Play the odds and evaluate the candidates fairly

[Todd4State]

You know it would be interesting to look at guys who were mainly NFL guys coming to the college ranks as HC and how they have done the last 20 years or so.

Bellichick's guys have done better in college than they have in the NFL.

We'll consider Saban an outlier.

Kirk Ferentz at Iowa.

Pat Hill at Fresno State

Bill O'Brien at Penn State- won the Bear Bryant Award and then went to the NFL

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

It has no bearing on his coaching abilities, but it does have bearing on whether he will be job shopping at the first sign of success. Mullen did, and it affected the end of a few (or several) seasons. You know Kiffin will bolt OM if he wins. A successful Joe Judge would be more likely to stay at State than many others, Napier included. Being a former MSU player and GA, Judge might not even leave State for a top NCAA job, especially since we could pay him whatever is necessary.

Fans who say, "I don't care if they leave if they are successful here" haven't been paying attention. Mullen's job shopping and the difficulty in finding another successful coach after he left show there should be at least some concern whether a new coach would be prone to leave early.

I'm far far far more concerned with having a good coach and being competitive than I am with having to nail another hire in 4 years.

If Napier can get us 6, 8, 9, and 10 wins and then bolt, that's damn good. We mess up this hire and we turn into Arkansas. Cant have back to back bad coaches

[Really Clark?]

Bellichick's guys have done better in college than they have in the NFL.

We'll consider Saban an outlier.

Kirk Ferentz at Iowa.

Pat Hill at Fresno State

Bill O'Brien at Penn State- won the Bear Bryant Award and then went to the NFL

Yep. Of course you have Pete Carrol at USC. Lovie Smith hasn’t done that well but Herm Edwards is looking pretty good so far. And seems to really be connecting with his players

[Todd4State]

I just dont get how people here go "I can find another coach that was successful who came from a similar spot, therefore X candidate would be amazing here!". This is basic logic.

Just because Ed O was mocked and it turned out great meay anyway doesnt mean Judge would also be a great hire. Hell Chiz has more in common with Ed O and nobody wants that. And just because great coaches sometimes come from NFL assistant ranks doesnt mean Judge will be good. Look at Croom.

Judge may be the next Saban. But the logic I'm seeing used to defend him is what I expect from my 5 year old.

Play the odds. Judge may be better than Napier but who would you rather have? The proven guy, that's who. Chiz may be better than Judge, but most of us agree Judge is more likely to work out for us than Chiz and wed take Judge.

Play the odds and evaluate the candidates fairly

It doesn't. That's why Napier is the favorite and preferred candidate. (wink)

But if you're other options are:

A known hot head and a guy that is a recovering alcoholic after your last coach embarrassed the school with his team's off the field behavior and you had to fire a baseball coach after off the field issues (Grantham and Sark)

A guy that has failed in the SEC and has proclaimed his love for Auburn when you are trying to unite the fans. (Chizik)

Two triple option guys...or one who may or may not run the triple option here and our recruits will no doubt be told that no matter what reality is. (Monken and Calhoun)

A guy who was the head coach of ULL when they were on probation while we're currently on probation. (Hud)

Or a guy that is an alum who has ties to Bill Bellichick and Saban and is a rising star in the NFL coaching world but has zero head coaching experience. (Judge)

I mean based on that it's pretty clear who I would roll with if I was in Cohen's shoes IF Napier isn't available. Because reality is we're going with the same program model that Saban uses whether it's Napier or not and support with high end assistants.

[parabrave]

Belicheck also started as a special teams coach

And everyone on his coaching tree has sucked at the next level.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

It doesn't. That's why Napier is the favorite and preferred candidate. (wink)

But if you're other options are:

A known hot head and a guy that is a recovering alcoholic after your last coach embarrassed the school with his team's off the field behavior and you had to fire a baseball coach after off the field issues (Grantham and Sark)

A guy that has failed in the SEC and has proclaimed his love for Auburn when you are trying to unite the fans. (Chizik)

Two triple option guys...or one who may or may not run the triple option here and our recruits will no doubt be told that no matter what reality is. (Monken and Calhoun)

A guy who was the head coach of ULL when they were on probation while we're currently on probation. (Hud)

Or a guy that is an alum who has ties to Bill Bellichick and Saban and is a rising star in the NFL coaching world but has zero head coaching experience. (Judge)

I mean based on that it's pretty clear who I would roll with if I was in Cohen's shoes IF Napier isn't available. Because reality is we're going with the same program model that Saban uses whether it's Napier or not and support with high end assistants.

Which is why I've said Judge is probably the 2nd best candidate last Napier (though I like Calhoun). My issue is either the horrible logic people are used to make him something hes not. He may be the best we can do but that's sad if true

[Maroonthirteen]

Who would you suggest?

A guy with head coaching experience.

[Cooterpoot]

If we hire Judge, Cohen will go down in history as worse than Larry Templeton.

[Joebob]

then was a Special Teams Lifer (which he has been) how many of you would really want him as a Head Coach in then SEC West? He cannot be who Cohen wants. I don?t care about these supposed assistant coaches. Some of those are pipe dreams. We have to have someone with more experience.

This was my thoughts exactly. It makes no sense. I wish somebody would explain the rationale in this.

[MedDawg]

If we hire Judge, Cohen will go down in history as worse than Larry Templeton.

Not if he wins.