When is the last time we beat a ranked MBB team?

[chef dixon]

Or even won a game we were not favored in? We have won some games last year to get us in tourney position, but we have not won a truly big game in a looooooong time.

[CJDAWG85]

Fire Howland now

[Jacksondevildog]

I thought our effort was great today, but we still are lost offensively. To answer your question, Howland hasn't won many games where we were underdogs. He doesn't have that big win (don't sell me at UL in the NIT). He has gradually improved the program year by year, but this team should be better the 9-4 right now.

[OLJWales]

we've gotten to the point where a "good loss" to Villanova shows "we're on the right direction". How's Nova done since our "moral victory"?

Fire his 17ing ass yesterday. I've had enough. I'd almost rather have NO team than this embarrassing bullshit.

[DawgFromOxford]

Or even won a game we were not favored in? We have won some games last year to get us in tourney position, but we have not won a truly big game in a looooooong time.

This is why most fans haven't bought back into the program. Any time it looks like we are about to turn the corner, we throw it away. Until Howland puts a couple of big wins together the Hump is going to continue to remain fairly empty.

[OLJWales]

This is why most fans haven't bought back into the program. Any time it looks like we are about to turn the corner, we throw it away. Until Howland puts a couple of big wins together the Hump is going to continue to remain fairly empty.

Exactly. This is what you play for, the fans. Blaming the fans on lack of HUMP support is ridiculous. We're not asking for automatic final 4's or anything like that, just something competitive. We don't even play in the strongest NCAA conference in hoops. Just wake up and walk for crying out loud.

[Irondawg]

I go back to some post I made earlier in the season - this offseason he has to find a guy really good at coaching offense and turn the keys over to him on that side of the court.

[MarketingBully]

I go back to some post I made earlier in the season - this offseason he has to find a guy really good at coaching offense and turn the keys over to him on that side of the court.

It won’t matter as long as he requires his team to play man to man 100% of the time. That’s our biggest issue right now imo. You can’t play kids 35+ minutes and limit your bench minutes when you also ask them to play man to man 100% of the time. You aren’t going to get the effort necessary for 40 minutes. It’s just not possible. He’s not a good coach anymore.

[dawgday166]

It won’t matter as long as he requires his team to play man to man 100% of the time. That’s our biggest issue right now imo. You can’t play kids 35+ minutes and limit your bench minutes when you also ask them to play man to man 100% of the time. You aren’t going to get the effort necessary for 40 minutes. It’s just not possible. He’s not a good coach anymore.

Aight ... I might buy the minutes part to some extent.

[BB30]

we've gotten to the point where a "good loss" to Villanova shows "we're on the right direction". How's Nova done since our "moral victory"?

Fire his 17ing ass yesterday. I've had enough. I'd almost rather have NO team than this embarrassing bullshit.

Dumb dumb dumb dumb take. Our fans have to be the absolute worst fans in the country. You must have been born yesterday if you can’t see the incremental improvement over the last five years.

You don’t go from rick Ray to national championship overnight. Howland is one of the best coaches we?ve had.

Y’all act like we were some big time powerhouse before the ray debacle. News flash we weren’t. We weren’t close to being a powerhouse. We were a tick above average in a very average conference under stans. We haven’t been a legit nationally relevant team since the 90s and a few years in the 00s. Our tourney performance last year is about the definition of our history save one year and that one year was what two and a half decades ago?

Patience is a lost quality these days. It’s all “what have you done for me today?”. Learn to be patient. You can’t go around firing coaches after they drop a game against a top ten team.

[dawgday166]

Dumb dumb dumb dumb take. Our fans have to be the absolute worst fans in the country. You must have been born yesterday if you can’t see the incremental improvement over the last five years.

You don’t go from rick Ray to national championship overnight. Howland is one of the best coaches we?ve had.

Y’all act like we were some big time powerhouse before the ray debacle. News flash we weren’t. We weren’t close to being a powerhouse. We were a tick above average in a very average conference under stans. We haven’t been a legit nationally relevant team since the 90s and a few years in the 00s. Our tourney performance last year is about the definition of our history save one year and that one year was what two and a half decades ago?

Patience is a lost quality these days. It’s all “what have you done for me today?”. Learn to be patient. You can’t go around firing coaches after they drop a game against a top ten team.

Can't argue with too much of this but Howland does have the talent on this team to possibly compete for SEC this year (Ky seems down this year) and go to at least Sweet 16/Elite 8 IMO. Hopefully he'll get some things a lot better by early to mid Feb.

[chef dixon]

Dumb dumb dumb dumb take. Our fans have to be the absolute worst fans in the country. You must have been born yesterday if you can’t see the incremental improvement over the last five years.

You don’t go from rick Ray to national championship overnight. Howland is one of the best coaches we?ve had.

Y’all act like we were some big time powerhouse before the ray debacle. News flash we weren’t. We weren’t close to being a powerhouse. We were a tick above average in a very average conference under stans. We haven’t been a legit nationally relevant team since the 90s and a few years in the 00s. Our tourney performance last year is about the definition of our history save one year and that one year was what two and a half decades ago?

Patience is a lost quality these days. It’s all “what have you done for me today?”. Learn to be patient. You can’t go around firing coaches after they drop a game against a top ten team.

I agree with your premise and also not firing Howland. But to say patience is a lost quality in regards to MSU basketball is comical. Have we beaten a ranked team in 10 years? I am having a hard time recalling it. That is not a lot to ask.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Dumb dumb dumb dumb take. Our fans have to be the absolute worst fans in the country. You must have been born yesterday if you can’t see the incremental improvement over the last five years.

You don’t go from rick Ray to national championship overnight. Howland is one of the best coaches we?ve had.

Y’all act like we were some big time powerhouse before the ray debacle. News flash we weren’t. We weren’t close to being a powerhouse. We were a tick above average in a very average conference under stans. We haven’t been a legit nationally relevant team since the 90s and a few years in the 00s. Our tourney performance last year is about the definition of our history save one year and that one year was what two and a half decades ago?

Patience is a lost quality these days. It’s all “what have you done for me today?”. Learn to be patient. You can’t go around firing coaches after they drop a game against a top ten team.

1) the "worst fandom in the country" line is complete BS and an overused way to put down the other person

2) no we aren't "improved" over last years team! Last years team at this point was solidly in the tournament and ended up a 5. This team will have to suddenly start playing better than they have all year to claw back in.

3) nobody is saying Howland hasnt done a fantastic job raising this program from the dead. His elite recruiting means our floor is raised and I agree there are far worse coaches out there. But none of that means he's the right move going forward

4) completely agree about the romantisation of Stans teams. He wasn't that good and I think a lot of it has to do with how much fun people had in the packed Hump.

5) nobody is saying fire Hiwland because he lost to a top 10 team. That's disingenuous to imply and you know it.

6) we will never have a team more talented and experienced than this one. 5* in the back and frontcourt and 4* everywhere else. We are also a pretty experienced team, with all of them having spent at least 1 year under Howland. So what makes you think we can get "incrementally better" from here?

Howland teams are consistently sloppy, inconsistent in effort, god awful on O, slow to adjust to what the other team does, and we never have an offensive plan like "we're going to force the ball to Perry" or "they have a slow PG so let Nick iso ball him". We are poorly coached. We just are, and always have been under Howland. Weve never had a run under him that makes you think he can put it together in the tournament, weve never had a signature win.

We win on talent that yes, Howland brought here, but he's hit his ceiling. And his ceiling is flirting with the Tourney, usually making the NIT, and never having the potential to get to the Sweet 16.

I want more from our program.

[maroonmania]

Basketball is just so hard to get excited about. Our ceiling with Howland seems to be just maybe slipping into the NCAA tournament. And if we do I don't see how we can go very far because, unlike the better Williams and Stansbury teams, it seems like we can rarely if ever beat a top quality team which means the odds of getting past the first weekend if in the NCAA tourney is close to zero. Today after watching us play the 1st half where we couldn't buy a basket I just set the 2nd half to record where I can go back and watch if by some miracle we came back and won. Needless to say it will get deleted.

[maroonmania]

Can't argue with too much of this but Howland does have the talent on this team to possibly compete for SEC this year (Ky seems down this year) and go to at least Sweet 16/Elite 8 IMO. Hopefully he'll get some things a lot better by early to mid Feb.

Exactly, this is likely about as much high end talent as Howland is going to have on an MSU team. We have two 5 stars (Perry and Weatherspoon) and a high 4 star (Woodard) because 2 are legacies and the other had a brother already on the roster. Those relationships don't happen that often. And that doesn't even count Tyson who is another legacy.

[dawgday166]

Exactly, this is likely about as much high end talent as Howland is going to have on an MSU team. We have two 5 stars (Perry and Weatherspoon) and a high 4 star (Woodard) because 2 are legacies and the other had a brother already on the roster. Those relationships don't happen that often. And that doesn't even count Tyson who is another legacy.

Pretty sure I remember Nick being a 4 *. Newman was a 5 *.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Pretty sure I remember Nick being a 4 *. Newman was a 5 *.

Nah he was a 5. Maybe a low 5 who was a 4 at one point, but he was a 5

[dawgday166]

Nah he was a 5. Maybe a low 5 who was a 4 at one point, but he was a 5

https://247sports.com/college/mississippi-state/Season/2017-Basketball/Commits/

[RougeDawg]

Nova was ranked 10 today before they lost to Marquette. So we have potential. Just no offense.