What coaches would bring the most entertaining brand of football?

[HoopsDawg]

Joe Brady, Hugh Freeze, Mike Leach?

Joe Judge maybe b/c it would be an interesting experiment.

[hacker]

A coach that wins

[yjnkdawg]

Joe Brady, Hugh Freeze, Mike Leach?

Joe Judge maybe b/c it would be an interesting experiment.


Leach vs Kiffin would probably be entertaining.

[Bdawg]

A coach that wins

MY EXACT WORDS before reading your post.

[Dawgology]

I mean...Mike Leech would be a circus. It would blow up and fail miserably pretty quickly but it would be an entertaining ride.

[HoopsDawg]

A coach that wins

Sure. But until scholarships are reduced and/or the playoff is expanded, we are playing for the Outback bowl as opposed to the Music City bowl. In other words, I want to be competitive in most games and I want to be entertained.

Having said that, Napier's offense is 8th in the country so that's good.

[ShotgunDawg]

Entertaining football does not fit our brand or recruiting ability.

If MSU wants to win, we've to turn into a Southern version of Wisconsin. MSU has a certain formula in which we have to color between the lines to win with. If our recruiting profile changes, then we can do more, but until then we can win 7-9 games a year with an occasional 10 by coloring between the lines of what our recruiting base produces.

[HoopsDawg]

Entertaining football does not fit our brand or recruiting ability.

If MSU wants to win, we've to turn into a Southern version of Wisconsin. MSU has a certain formula in which we have to color between the lines to win with. If our recruiting profile changes, then we can do more, but until then we can win 7-9 games a year with an occasional 10 by coloring between the lines of what our recruiting base produces.

I think that's our best course. Wasn't my question, but that's probably our best course.

Though Pullman, WA doesn't produce a lot of elite WR's.

[ShotgunDawg]

I find the Joe Moorhead tenure very interesting.

Jackie & Mullen taught us how to win, but their limitations always made us wonder what the limits were as to how aggressive MSU could get offensively with our current recruiting.

What the Moorhead tenure kind of taught us is that until we recruit significantly better at WR, we've got to color between the lines of what our recruiting base provides offensively to be successful.

However, as we found with Mullen, until we can throw enough to get the safeties out of the box, we will struggle to take the next step.

Thus it's my opinion that the correct formula for MSU is power spread + creative, between the tackles run game + occasional RPO + recruiting better at WR = 8-9 win program with occasionally better.

It won't be pretty because we don't recruit pretty players. We have to maximize our strengths while finding a way to slightly improve our passing game over the Mullen era

[Todd4State]

Entertaining football does not fit our brand or recruiting ability.

If MSU wants to win, we've to turn into a Southern version of Wisconsin. MSU has a certain formula in which we have to color between the lines to win with. If our recruiting profile changes, then we can do more, but until then we can win 7-9 games a year with an occasional 10 by coloring between the lines of what our recruiting base produces.

I think we're going to try to change our recruiting profile in that in that I think we're about to invest a lot more into it.

I also think our issues at WR are a lot more about Dan sucking at recruiting than anything else. Jackie was able to land some good ones- Orlada Truitt and Eric Moulds both played in the NFL and I remember in 1994 we had Chris Jones and Shaston Coleman who were both solid. After that we were able to get Kelvin Love, Kevin Cooper, Kevin Prentiss, Larry Huntington, Matt Butler, and Terrell Gindle who were all pretty solid. I can think of at least one pretty prominent catch made by each one of those guys. We were able to get Chad Bumphis and Fred Ross and both are among the school's best- along with Bear Wilson and Fred Brown. And then we hired Billy Gonzalez.

Oh- we also have two four star WR's signed with us currently. Both former or current UA All-Americans. And yes, I'm aware they played Tulu at DB.

[Todd4State]

I find the Joe Moorhead tenure very interesting.

Jackie & Mullen taught us how to win, but their limitations always made us wonder what the limits were as to how aggressive MSU could get offensively with our current recruiting.

What the Moorhead tenure kind of taught us is that until we recruit significantly better at WR, we've got to color between the lines of what our recruiting base provides offensively to be successful.

However, as we found with Mullen, until we can throw enough to get the safeties out of the box, we will struggle to take the next step.

Thus it's my opinion that the correct formula for MSU is power spread + creative, between the tackles run game + occasional RPO + recruiting better at WR = 8-9 win program with occasionally better.

It won't be pretty because we don't recruit pretty players. We have to maximize our strengths while finding a way to slightly improve our passing game over the Mullen era

Cohen tried to follow the "blueprint" that Scott Stricklin left him and tried to find another Dan Mullen and then somewhere along the way realized that we can be better if we are about to do what I think we are with the football program. The low expectations from the AD in football has held us back for years. And as I've said before there has been a disconnect between what the fans want/expect and believe we can do- because of what Jackie and Dan did- and what the AD believed our fans thought and expected- just win the Egg Bowl and go to the Liberty Bowl and we'll love you for life as a coach.

We still want to and expect to win the Egg Bowl. But there are other expectations. I think most of us want at least 8-10 wins a year, beat the teams we are supposed to/clearly better than which amounts to our non P5 OOC teams and lower tier SEC teams like Arkansas and Kentucky as well as blue bloods that are down like Auburn and Texas A&M sometimes are and then upset a blue blood every other year or so like Jackie did. I think we expect to go to NYD bowls at a minimum although. And of course- win the Egg Bowl. I know I mentioned that already.

Our fans are becoming more and more invested in football and it's time for the AD to step up and deliver.

[ShotgunDawg]

I think we're going to try to change our recruiting profile in that in that I think we're about to invest a lot more into it.

I also think our issues at WR are a lot more about Dan sucking at recruiting than anything else. Jackie was able to land some good ones- Orlada Truitt and Eric Moulds both played in the NFL and I remember in 1994 we had Chris Jones and Shaston Coleman who were both solid. After that we were able to get Kelvin Love, Kevin Cooper, Kevin Prentiss, Larry Huntington, Matt Butler, and Terrell Gindle who were all pretty solid. I can think of at least one pretty prominent catch made by each one of those guys. We were able to get Chad Bumphis and Fred Ross and both are among the school's best- along with Bear Wilson and Fred Brown. And then we hired Billy Gonzalez.

Oh- we also have two four star WR's signed with us currently. Both former or current UA All-Americans. And yes, I'm aware they played Tulu at DB.

I agree that Dan is much to blame with WR recruiting, but the 4 stars we get still aren't going to be as polished as the ones Bama, LSU, & others get.

Getting better WRs will hopefully allow us to improve enough throwing the ball that we can move the safeties out of the box, but fineness passing will never ever be what leads us to big seasons. It's not our identity.

Our formula to winning big is similar to Auburn's. Auburn is a smash mouth power running team but throws enough to keep defenses honest.

[ShotgunDawg]

Cohen tried to follow the "blueprint" that Scott Stricklin left him and tried to find another Dan Mullen and then somewhere along the way realized that we can be better if we are about to do what I think we are with the football program. The low expectations from the AD in football has held us back for years. And as I've said before there has been a disconnect between what the fans want/expect and believe we can do- because of what Jackie and Dan did- and what the AD believed our fans thought and expected- just win the Egg Bowl and go to the Liberty Bowl and we'll love you for life as a coach.

We still want to and expect to win the Egg Bowl. But there are other expectations. I think most of us want at least 8-10 wins a year, beat the teams we are supposed to/clearly better than which amounts to our non P5 OOC teams and lower tier SEC teams like Arkansas and Kentucky as well as blue bloods that are down like Auburn and Texas A&M sometimes are and then upset a blue blood every other year or so like Jackie did. I think we expect to go to NYD bowls at a minimum although. And of course- win the Egg Bowl. I know I mentioned that already.

Our fans are becoming more and more invested in football and it's time for the AD to step up and deliver.

I agree.

To me, MSU football expectations should be:

1. Always flirting with top 25
2. Average year is 7-9 wins.
3. Most years we are in the top 25 between 13-20
4. Every 3-4 years we are building towards a top 10 type team.
5. Top 25 recruiting classes every year with a trend towards top 20.

Those are my expectations & I think they are completely reasonable & reachable with our modern resources

[Todd4State]

I agree that Dan is much to blame with WR recruiting, but the 4 stars we get still aren't going to be as polished as the ones Bama, LSU, & others get.

Getting better WRs will hopefully allow us to improve enough throwing the ball that we can move the safeties out of the box, but fineness passing will never ever be what leads us to big seasons. It's not our identity.

Our formula to winning big is similar to Auburn's. Auburn is a smash mouth power running team but throws enough to keep defenses honest.

That's true for every single position group we recruit though. That doesn't excuse dropping passes left and right and half assing routes. We don't say that we can't recruit good OL or QB's because they aren't Tua caliber once they step onto campus.

Some of our fans need to stop coming up with obstacles that don't exist as far as what "we" are or can and can't do based on nothing other than personal preference.

It wasn't just our WR's that were soft under Joe. The entire team was. That's a symptom of poor discipline which is a non-negotiable for ANY football team if they want to succeed. We really weren't THAT finesse- we were third in the SEC in rushing coming into the Music City Bowl and had significantly more carries than pass attempts. Not to mention the leading rusher in the SEC in Kylin Hill.

I don't think we should be Air Raid because we are going to HAVE to run the ball some and we need to be able to do that. But at the same time we need to be able to throw the ball some and need to be fairly efficient at it or teams will load the box and stop us and we will continue to not have a prayer against Saban. That's why I've always said that we need to be balanced. And also why I railed the Country Club for their shitty recruiting- because we can afford to recruit worse less than most teams in the SEC.

[Todd4State]

I agree.

To me, MSU football expectations should be:

1. Always flirting with top 25
2. Average year is 7-9 wins.
3. Most years we are in the top 25 between 13-20
4. Every 3-4 years we are building towards a top 10 type team.
5. Top 25 recruiting classes every year with a trend towards top 20.

Those are my expectations & I think they are completely reasonable & reachable with our modern resources

Absolutely. Heck- USM and Tulane both today had receivers that were better than any of ours. If they can find them there is ZERO reason why we can't. Omar Bayless and Jamarcus Bradley are Sun Belt receivers from Mississippi- Bradley's from Ackerman- and both would start for us if they were on our team. What we've done as far as WR recruiting is criminal.

[yjnkdawg]

Joe Brady, Hugh Freeze, Mike Leach?

Joe Judge maybe b/c it would be an interesting experiment.


Hoops your thread sure got hijacked, from the question you asked, but that's nothing new on here.

[Walkerhill]

I find the Joe Moorhead tenure very interesting.

Jackie & Mullen taught us how to win, but their limitations always made us wonder what the limits were as to how aggressive MSU could get offensively with our current recruiting.

What the Moorhead tenure kind of taught us is that until we recruit significantly better at WR, we've got to color between the lines of what our recruiting base provides offensively to be successful.

However, as we found with Mullen, until we can throw enough to get the safeties out of the box, we will struggle to take the next step.

Thus it's my opinion that the correct formula for MSU is power spread + creative, between the tackles run game + occasional RPO + recruiting better at WR = 8-9 win program with occasionally better.

It won't be pretty because we don't recruit pretty players. We have to maximize our strengths while finding a way to slightly improve our passing game over the Mullen era

Unfortunately this is our second time learning that lesson. Croom brought an exotic West Coast Offense and then struggled to recruit and develop qb and wr personnel capable of running it.

Note to the AD of the future, if a prospective coach is an offensive genius, we do not want them. If they are described pragmatic and down to earth, and they have a successful track record, then that is your guy. It really is not that hard.

Joe will be successful someday, and it will be by finding a better school and league for his offense and also this humbling failure will hopefully necessitate more flexibility and humility in his coaching. Both sides are growing from this and imo are separating at the right time for both sides to benefit in the long run. The next step is critically important for both.

PS - Being from the north had nothing to do with it, and long term I actually think he may be a west coast guy in terms of offensive style. I could see him in the PAC 10 for sure, like UCLA or Cal. I will be a Joe fan from here on - not a fit here but a good guy

[RougeDawg]

Absolutely. Heck- USM and Tulane both today had receivers that were better than any of ours. If they can find them there is ZERO reason why we can't. Omar Bayless and Jamarcus Bradley are Sun Belt receivers from Mississippi- Bradley's from Ackerman- and both would start for us if they were on our team. What we've done as far as WR recruiting is criminal.

You bring up a point I?ve harped on for a few years. That even lesser conference teams appear to have better WRs than we do. The recruiting sites cannot be that far off, that many times, that many years, and we are the only program who receives the mis-rated WRs. There has to be something within our program we are not doing or doing wrong to be getting the results we have seen.

It would be damn near impossible for everything mentioned above to happen in sequence, year after year. We are doing something offensively/schematically or practice/development wise that is taking supposedly higher rated recruits than the Tulanes, and under developing them.

I have no idea what it is or how to fix it, but the eyes tell you something is amiss. Hopefully a new set of coaches can figure it out.

[TheLostDawg]

I mean...Mike Leech would be a circus. It would blow up and fail miserably pretty quickly but it would be an entertaining ride.

This

[RougeDawg]

Leach would be interesting but has he ever run his offense in a conference with the talent and depth of the SEC? I think that is the thing people overlook the most. Sure you can score 40+ points a game in the Big12 or PAC 10-12, whatever it is. But that does not translate well to scoring in the SEC. finesse anything gets eaten alive in this conference. That is why our coaching hires have to be viewed and conducted differently than amongst these other powder puff defense leagues. This is most likely why Dan has success. He had seen other leagues, and seen what tweaks were needed when the offense reached the SEC.

[TheLostDawg]

You bring up a point I?ve harped on for a few years. That even lesser conference teams appear to have better WRs than we do. The recruiting sites cannot be that far off, that many times, that many years, and we are the only program who receives the mis-rated WRs. There has to be something within our program we are not doing or doing wrong to be getting the results we have seen.

It would be damn near impossible for everything mentioned above to happen in sequence, year after year. We are doing something offensively/schematically or practice/development wise that is taking supposedly higher rated recruits than the Tulanes, and under developing them.

I have no idea what it is or how to fix it, but the eyes tell you something is amiss. Hopefully a new set of coaches can figure it out.

Have our recruiting analysts changed in the wr department since *******

[R2Dawg]

A coach that wins

This. I want us to play hard, disciplined, hard nose football and well prepared. It may or may not be exciting but it should produce some good wins. OK exciting O but suck on D, ain't gonnna make me very excited. Winning 10 games every year is pretty exciting though.

[TheLostDawg]

Leach would be interesting but has he ever run his offense in a conference with the talent and depth of the SEC? I think that is the thing people overlook the most. Sure you can score 40+ points a game in the Big12 or PAC 10-12, whatever it is. But that does not translate well to scoring in the SEC. finesse anything gets eaten alive in this conference. That is why our coaching hires have to be viewed and conducted differently than amongst these other powder puff defense leagues. This is most likely why Dan has success. He had seen other leagues, and seen what tweaks were needed when the offense reached the SEC.

Yes ten years in the SEC HC helped him figure a lot out

[RougeDawg]

Yes ten years in the SEC HC helped him figure a lot out

Meant more along the lines of when he and migraine made the first jump to Florida and were successful.