Why is Joe Worth Saving?

[ShotgunDawg]

I get the feeling that there is an effort to save Joe & surround him with better assistants, kind of like what Ole Miss did with Rich Rod & McIntyre.

However, what does Joe bring to the table that makes it worth doing that?

For LSU - It was worth doing that for O because O is a great recruiter, tremendous salesman for Louisiana, & has a created a top shelf culture of effort & positive energy in that program. The fans have always loved him. Thus he is was worth surrounding with great coaches.

For Ole Miss - With Luke, OM had fewer reasons to surround him with high dollar assistants than O, but the players played their ass of Luke & love him. The pee incident withstanding, that team seemed to have a quality culture of effort & respect with Luke in charge.

So what does Moorhead bring? What ingredient does he bring to MSU that isn't easily replaced?

Culture? LOL

Recruiting? Honestly it seems fairly average to me. Maybe a slight tick up, but is it worth everything else being bad?

Offensive scheme? LOL

Fundamentals? LOL

So this is my issue. I'm cool surrounding a coach that is elite in a certain area but below average in others, with coaches that fill those gaps, but I can't figure out what Joe is good enough at that makes him worth saving.

This is why surrounding him with better assistants is worthless.

[MrKotter]

There is no logical reason to save him or for him to still be here. He has more than proven himself incapable of this job.

[OLJWales]

looking at ole miss make those adjustments to a run oriented offense due to the personnel impressed me. I'm still not figuring out how we beat them. but that's what competent coaches do, they utilize the talent available to them and run the best way they can. Others are in a bubble and don't know other ways to be successful.

[JoseBrown]

He's a people pleaser as he said. And dammit people like him.*** He's got Cohen snowed.

I tried answering your question, I really did. Then logic took over and I overruled my analytical side, and hit the cancel button twice.. So thats all I've got. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. 17! We're screwed dude. One more year of the same old, same old. I just don't believe it's in him to make real change. Maybe he proves me wrong.

[ShotgunDawg]

Can you imagine how much easier Keenum & Cohen's jobs would be if they just fired him?

All the anguish, bitching, complaining, emails from fans, phone calls from boosters, etc. All gone if they just fire him.

If they keep him, those continue & we go through all this again & again

[OLJWales]

Can you imagine how much easier Keenum & Cohen's jobs would be if they just fired him?

All the anguish, bitching, complaining, emails from fans, phone calls from boosters, etc. All gone if they just fire him.

If they keep him, those continue & we go through all this again & again

this is exactly why I think good news will be forthcoming soon.

[ShotgunDawg]

this is exactly why I think good news will be forthcoming soon.

I mean, surely they get it right?

[OLJWales]

I mean, surely they get it right?

I would love to hear from a Cigar Boy , Cohen or Keenum as to why we keep him and don't just clean house. If we are stupid enough to keep him, don't we at least deserve an explanation as to why?

[AROB44]

Shotgun.....you do realize that when you reach 30,000 posts you are permanently banned from posting any further.

[ShotgunDawg]

Shotgun.....you do realize that when you reach 30,000 posts you are permanently banned from posting any further.

Do you realize I don't give a 17?

[HoopsDawg]

There's no reason to keep him except to save money in the short term. Cohen would have to buy out Joe and pay big dollars for a new coach and staff.

Also, need to have a new coach ready to go before you can fire him. It's getting very late in the hiring cycle. Most hires are done before the early signing date.

[Bdawg]

I mean, surely they get it right?

If they don't, we got a dumb bunch leading us. Hopefully they are talking to coaches as we speak. But to answer your question, he brings nothing to the table except decent recruiting. I think he works hard at that. Other than that, it look like he brings unprepared, undisciplined, no effort giving(some not all), non-caring, selfish(some again) players and some coaches to games with him every weekend. Egg bowl was best effort, but why did it take till the last game? If Cohen and company enjoy that s***show, then they can sit in the stands by themselves cause Starkville will be a ghost town when trot the same crap out there game 1 next year. There has to be huge changes somewhere.

[ShotgunDawg]

To me, Cohen has one more chess move with the football program before he's fired.

That move can either be:

1. Keep Joe & get him new assistants

2. Fire Joe & hire someone else.

This is it or it should be. He gets one more move. Take your pick John

[Bothrops]

Unless he quits, he's here next season from what I understand. New assistants will be the storyline this off season.

[defiantdog]

Unless he quits, he's here next season from what I understand. New assistants will be the storyline this off season.

Only issue is there are no big time assistants looking for a job. We're ****ed.

[DogsofAnarchy]

If we are going the new assistants route, then Joe will have to publicly say he has hired an OC to install and call plays. Joe Moorhead will not do that and the offense will not change next year. As far as the Culture problem....if Joe is here the Culture will remain the same.

[Indndawg]

I wished Moorhead would pull a Cutcliffe

[ShotgunDawg]

Great quote by Dabo here. This is from Dabo's notebook that the HS coach that coaches all the Clemson coach's sons got to look through.

This is why replacing assistants won't work. of course, I'm sure Cohen & Keenum believe they're smarter than Dabo with this stuff.

https://i.imgur.com/uvTXjpX.jpg

[Dawgface]

I would love to hear from a Cigar Boy , Cohen or Keenum as to why we keep him and don't just clean house. If we are stupid enough to keep him, don't we at least deserve an explanation as to why?

I was told by one cigar boy you simply can't fire a coach after year 2 with bowl appearances in each. This guy is also good friends with Keenum so I suspect they are on the same page. This was before the 'fight' and bowl loss so who knows if they still feel the same way.

[dawgday166]

Is this even a question?? He's not IMO. He needs a ton more seasoning to even be a good enough head coach for a G5 school.

[maroonmania]

If we are going the new assistants route, then Joe will have to publicly say he has hired an OC to install and call plays. Joe Moorhead will not do that and the offense will not change next year. As far as the Culture problem....if Joe is here the Culture will remain the same.

New assistants aren't going to fix the offense nor will it fix the culture. Its Joe's offense and the HC sets the culture of the program so I really don't see why we wouldn't either just fire Moorhead or leave him alone and see how it plays out for another season. If you had a CEO type coach like Orgeron you could change offensive or defensive styles with a coordinator hire but when your HC is tied to your offense you really don't have that luxury.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I would love to hear from a Cigar Boy , Cohen or Keenum as to why we keep him and don't just clean house. If we are stupid enough to keep him, don't we at least deserve an explanation as to why?

You won't hear a damn thing. It comes down to Cohen has given power back to the CB's that they didn't have under Byrne or Strick. They aren't giving it up. They could care less if we suck or not. Them feeling important is the only thing they care about.

[HoopsDawg]

Is this even a question?? He's not IMO. He needs a ton more seasoning to even be a good enough head coach for a G5 school.

Disagree on G5. I think he needs to coach Ivy League or FCS level if he wants to be a head coach.

[HoopsDawg]

New assistants aren't going to fix the offense nor will it fix the culture. Its Joe's offense and the HC sets the culture of the program so I really don't see why we wouldn't either just fire Moorhead or leave him alone and see how it plays out for another season. If you had a CEO type coach like Orgeron you could change offensive or defensive styles with a coordinator hire but when your HC is tied to your offense you really don't have that luxury.

A coach can overcome losses and a lot of things, but I don't see how an unproven head coach can survive a bad culture. It's mind boggling.

[dawgday166]

Disagree on G5. I think he needs to coach Ivy League or FCS level if he wants to be a head coach.

LOL ... he is more of a patty-cake type of coach. When teams are knocking your dick in the dirt he don't know what to do.

[maroonmania]

A coach can overcome losses and a lot of things, but I don't see how an unproven head coach can survive a bad culture. It's mind boggling.

Survive it? He created it.

[HoopsDawg]

Survive it? He created it.

Yeah, that's my point. You can make a lot of excuses for the on field performance if you want to. But you can not excuse away the culture he has created.

And we already know his ceiling is 8 wins. He will never have a more talented D than he had last year with 3 NFL offensive linemen and 2 1000 yard backs.