Report on the Business Trip- it's NOT pretty

[Todd4State]

I'll say it. I want to believe in Joe Moorhead. I've tried. And I just don't. I can understand the excuses about QB injuries and Tutor Gate. But the reality is you can't defend the sloppiness in all facets of the game. I'm talking about people not knowing when to be on the field or not. Or getting a penalty because you have a guy that's hurt trying to run off the field and you tell him to try to hobble back to the LOS instead of just falling down. We aren't physical and quite frankly our players act entitled on social media. "You don't know what it's like to get up at 5 AM and work out and then go to class." And you don't know what it's like to pass chemistry without cheating (I do). It's just not a good look but not surprising that I see that when you watch the press conference and the coach is telling us to pound sand and kick rocks. That still absolutely blows my mind.

Joe needed to win the bowl game. He didn't and even worse he managed to embarrass MSU in the process with Willie Gay and Garrett Shrader fighting and the QB getting knocked out. And no one is buying any players saying that fights happen all the time and it's no big deal because the reality is none of us can remember a time the QB was ever injured in a fight in practice to the point where he couldn't play. Or any other player really. It turned out to be a factor in the game as Tommy Stevens was horrible. He looked like someone playing with football PTSD and just seemed to freeze time and time again like he didn't know what to do. The tackling was atrocious all year long. Except for the Egg Bowl. And we all see how bad special teams has been and even Joe has not excused that to the press. The fact that Willie Gay is the leader of this team speaks volumes about how much is wrong with our program right now. Yeah- the guy who routinely gets kicked out of games, suspended for cheating, and beat up the QB is our leader. It's a wonder that we somehow managed to cobble together bowl eligibility. But hey- congrats on being better than Matt Luke led on probation Ole Miss (barely) and Arkansas.

I could tolerate the excuses better if we played hard. And we just don't. And that's probably a symptom of what we saw all year long. We think we work hard. We don't. That's the reality.

The other reality is the real root of our problem is actually not Joe. The root of the problem is the people that want to keep him in place for another year for some unknown reason. They can end this and it's not too late but the sun is setting for this year. They're essentially the board of chairmen supervising this business trip which was a collosal failure. We'll see if they drop the axe. Or if they want to pound sand.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I'll say it. I want to believe in Joe Moorhead. I've tried. And I just don't. I can understand the excuses about QB injuries and Tutor Gate. But the reality is you can't defend the sloppiness in all facets of the game. I'm talking about people not knowing when to be on the field or not. Or getting a penalty because you have a guy that's hurt trying to run off the field and you tell him to try to hobble back to the LOS instead of just falling down. We aren't physical and quite frankly our players act entitled on social media. "You don't know what it's like to get up at 5 AM and work out and then go to class." And you don't know what it's like to pass chemistry without cheating (I do). It's just not a good look but not surprising that I see that when you watch the press conference and the coach is telling us to pound sand and kick rocks. That still absolutely blows my mind.

Joe needed to win the bowl game. He didn't and even worse he managed to embarrass MSU in the process with Willie Gay and Garrett Shrader fighting and the QB getting knocked out. And no one is buying any players saying that fights happen all the time and it's no big deal because the reality is none of us can remember a time the QB was ever injured in a fight in practice to the point where he couldn't play. Or any other player really. It turned out to be a factor in the game as Tommy Stevens was horrible. He looked like someone playing with football PTSD and just seemed to freeze time and time again like he didn't know what to do. The tackling was atrocious all year long. Except for the Egg Bowl. And we all see how bad special teams has been and even Joe has not excused that to the press. The fact that Willie Gay is the leader of this team speaks volumes about how much is wrong with our program right now. Yeah- the guy who routinely gets kicked out of games, suspended for cheating, and beat up the QB is our leader. It's a wonder that we somehow managed to cobble together bowl eligibility. But hey- congrats on being better than Matt Luke led on probation Ole Miss (barely) and Arkansas.

I could tolerate the excuses better if we played hard. And we just don't. And that's probably a symptom of what we saw all year long. We think we work hard. We don't. That's the reality.

The other reality is the real root of our problem is actually not Joe. The root of the problem is the people that want to keep him in place for another year for some unknown reason. They can end this and it's not too late but the sun is setting for this year. They're essentially the board of chairmen supervising this business trip which was a collosal failure. We'll see if they drop the axe. Or if they want to pound sand.

I think yall need to let up on Willie Gay. He plays hard every single snap and if people knew that the other 6 started the fight, and that the other 6 isnt an angel himself they'd let that go.

It is true this is the first time I can ever remember it costing a player a start bc of a fight involved injury but Willie Gay is a difference maker and to run him off over this would be just as dumb as tolerating Moorheads bullshit. Which we are already doing.

[defiantdog]

I'm not sure who would buy the product after that business trip.

[dawgday166]

I think yall need to let up on Willie Gay. He plays hard every single snap and if people knew that the other 6 started the fight, and that the other 6 isnt an angel himself they'd let that go.

It is true this is the first time I can ever remember it costing a player a start bc of a fight involved injury but Willie Gay is a difference maker and to run him off over this would be just as dumb as tolerating Moorheads bullshit. Which we are already doing.

I don't know for sure but ... I have suspected that Shrader was the primary instigator of it.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I don't know for sure but ... I have suspected that Shrader was the primary instigator of it.

Shrader talked shit to Willie after Stevens threw a TD pass in practice. Shrader got in Willies face and Willie slapped him with his helmet on. No big deal.

But after breaking it down to end practice Shrader couldnt leave well enough alone and they got to bitching and Gay put him in a headlock and hit him several times. This is what happened

[smootness]

I think yall need to let up on Willie Gay. He plays hard every single snap and if people knew that the other 6 started the fight, and that the other 6 isnt an angel himself they'd let that go.

It is true this is the first time I can ever remember it costing a player a start bc of a fight involved injury but Willie Gay is a difference maker and to run him off over this would be just as dumb as tolerating Moorheads bullshit. Which we are already doing.

No, it wouldn't be. Keeping a player like that because he's a 'difference maker' is actually a window into part of the problem with the program.

Sometimes gaining discipline is worth losing a player's talent.

[smootness]

If Shrader did something worthy of having his face broken, he shouldn't still be around.

If he didn't, Gay shouldn't still be around.

The fact that they both are with 0 consequences is a complete joke and an embarrassment.

[BuckyIsAB****]

No, it wouldn't be. Keeping a player like that because he's a 'difference maker' is actually a window into part of the problem with the program.

Sometimes gaining discipline is worth losing a player's talent.

Ask Saban about Reuben Foster and Rolando McClain. He will tell you. McClain was ready to fight Saban in his office and he brought him out of it. He tells the story all the time at his clinics. Youtube it, its easy to find. Gay should not be kicked off the team.

Put yourself in the players shoes, this freshman who is an asshole himself, talking shit to an experienced guy who has been thru the ringer and had his own demons. Whos back are you going to take? If Im those other kids Im with Willie also. Shrader aint done shit to earn that and neither has Stevens or Moorhead.

[Todd4State]

I think yall need to let up on Willie Gay. He plays hard every single snap and if people knew that the other 6 started the fight, and that the other 6 isnt an angel himself they'd let that go.

It is true this is the first time I can ever remember it costing a player a start bc of a fight involved injury but Willie Gay is a difference maker and to run him off over this would be just as dumb as tolerating Moorheads bullshit. Which we are already doing.

It's not so much JUST the fight. It's the entire resume of getting ejected and suspended among other selfish moments. I sit behind the MSU bench and I have seen Gay get in one of our coaches face too because he almost got a penalty for dancing around and celebrating.

Both are at fault in the fight. Highly doubt that Shrader deserved to have his eye broken. Today was the most restraint I have seen Gay play with- probably in large part because our fans jumped his ass. Would have been nice if Moorhead has jumped his ass a year ago.

[Todd4State]

Ask Saban about Reuben Foster and Rolando McClain. He will tell you. McClain was ready to fight Saban in his office and he brought him out of it. He tells the story all the time at his clinics. Youtube it, its easy to find. Gay should not be kicked off the team.

Put yourself in the players shoes, this freshman who is an asshole himself, talking shit to an experienced guy who has been thru the ringer and had his own demons. Whos back are you going to take? If Im those other kids Im with Willie also. Shrader aint done shit to earn that and neither has Stevens or Moorhead.

Here's the thing about Shrader. He's the QB. And he is trying to establish himself as the leader. That has to be hard for a true freshman and he could have handled himself better but Gay acting like he did potentially makes it even harder for Shrader to become the leader. And that makes it harder for the football team down the line.

[hacker]

If Shrader did something worthy of having his face broken, he shouldn't still be around.

If he didn't, Gay shouldn't still be around.

The fact that they both are with 0 consequences is a complete joke and an embarrassment.

How does one have a fractured orbital bone without a black eye? That's what I'd like to know.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Here's the thing about Shrader. He's the QB. And he is trying to establish himself as the leader. That has to be hard for a true freshman and he could have handled himself better but Gay acting like he did potentially makes it even harder for Shrader to become the leader. And that makes it harder for the football team down the line.

I've seen leaders. Leaders know when to let sleeping dog lie. They are both at fault. I will leave it at that. But twitter and here is ready to kick the best player on the team (by far) off for something each of you would have done yourselves.

Our kids on twitter are constantly crying and constantly moaning, finger pointing and complaining. It all comes down to being soft and not being held accountable. Period

[Todd4State]

I've seen leaders. Leaders know when to let sleeping dog lie. They are both at fault. I will leave it at that. But twitter and here is ready to kick the best player on the team (by far) off for something each of you would have done yourselves.

Our kids on twitter are constantly crying and constantly moaning, finger pointing and complaining. It all comes down to being soft and not being held accountable. Period

And I'll say for me personally I don't think either one should be kicked off the team. But they both need to be disciplined. I know Joe says he did but I don't believe it. I think most of Gay's behavior would have been curbed with discipline. Joe isn't doing his job.

[Todd4State]

How does one have a fractured orbital bone without a black eye? That's what I'd like to know.

I thought he did? The bruising has probably gone down. That injury typically takes two weeks to heal.

[BuckyIsAB****]

And I'll say for me personally I don't think either one should be kicked off the team. But they both need to be disciplined. I know Joe says he did but I don't believe it. I think most of Gay's behavior would have been curbed with discipline. Joe isn't doing his job.

That is obvious. The twitter stuff has to go. Almost every one I see is arguing with a fan and whining and moaning

[TXDawg]

Shrader talked shit to Willie after Stevens threw a TD pass in practice. Shrader got in Willies face and Willie slapped him with his helmet on. No big deal.

But after breaking it down to end practice Shrader couldnt leave well enough alone and they got to bitching and Gay put him in a headlock and hit him several times. This is what happened

So you’re saying that Gay put Schrader in a headlock and punched him repeatedly because Schrader was talking smack and you’re defending Gay?!? If that’s truly what happened, it’s just another scenario where Gay lost control and hurt his team. Pathetic.

[BuckyIsAB****]

So you’re saying that Gay put Schrader in a headlock and punched him repeatedly because Schrader was talking smack and you’re defending Gay?!? If that’s truly what happened, it’s just another scenario where Gay lost control and hurt his team. Pathetic.

I am defending Gay bc if I am him and Im in that situation and this freshman who has done enough stupid shit all year and was no stranger to the doghouse gets in my face twice at practice, I am going to do something about it. They are both at fault. Willie hasnt had a good year off the field at all.

[tireddawg]

I am defending Gay bc if I am him and Im in that situation and this freshman who has done enough stupid shit all year and was no stranger to the doghouse gets in my face twice at practice, I am going to do something about it. They are both at fault. Willie hasnt had a good year off the field at all.

No1 deserves their face broken over a constitutionally protected right. Now if GS put his hands on WG 1st, & WG was defending himself, that's different, but putting some1 in a headlock and punching them repeatedly, nah, not cool. That's just losing control. I don't think you necessarily kick them off the team, but since GS had to miss the game due to WG's dumbness, WG should have been suspended for the bowl game. The consequences should have been the same for both.

[PKADogs55]

Shrader talked shit to Willie after Stevens threw a TD pass in practice. Shrader got in Willies face and Willie slapped him with his helmet on. No big deal.

But after breaking it down to end practice Shrader couldnt leave well enough alone and they got to bitching and Gay put him in a headlock and hit him several times. This is what happened

That right there ... Just wrapped up this entire Shit Show Season.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

Cohen: Joe, this bowl game is strictly business, not vacation with a football game at the end for shits and giggles.

Joe's response: Promptly maxes out the company credit card in the strip club VIP room.

[RougeDawg]

I am defending Gay bc if I am him and Im in that situation and this freshman who has done enough stupid shit all year and was no stranger to the doghouse gets in my face twice at practice, I am going to do something about it. They are both at fault. Willie hasnt had a good year off the field at all.

Willie made a late hit on Tommy in practice that Garrett yelled at him that kind of play is a penalty in a game. Gay started jawing back. Is a late hit on a QB in a bowl practice, something that shows self restraint?

Some of you defending Willie are probably the same ones that didn?t see this train wreck coming after Kentucky 2018. You are blinded by zero common sense.

Willie has continuously shown, on and off the field, that he has zero ability to hold himself in check. Shit, even today he was flexing at the UL sideline after a tackle. Could have been flagged.

Bottom line is Willie does not have his head on straight. Anyone who disagrees, please provide the evidence. Sloppy Joe could have nipped all of this in the bud if he wanted to be a head coach, instead of best friends with the players.

Please stop defending stupidity and please start seeing train wrecks 15 miles up track, not as it is already off the rails. It is quite clear from posters here and real life, that people either are too ignorant or choose to deny the truths/facts laid before them. I clearly am not one of those and have a hard time understanding how any other human being can deny water is wet, if them denying water is wet goes against everything they ever wished to be true.

[Bothrops]

This coaching staff has repeatedly shown the world that it is incapable of fielding a competitive team away from home. They make a hell of a lot of money to be missing the mark like this. Can I please suck this bad at my job and make at least a 5 digit income per month?

[msstate7]

If Shrader did something worthy of having his face broken, he shouldn't still be around.

If he didn't, Gay shouldn't still be around.

The fact that they both are with 0 consequences is a complete joke and an embarrassment.

Ding, ding, ding

[Dannyripms]

Willie Gay is probably one of the very few bright spots on the team. That dude plays hard every down. Not his fault Slowmo sucks. Fire him today please.

[msstate7]

Willie Gay is probably one of the very few bright spots on the team. That dude plays hard every down. Not his fault Slowmo sucks. Fire him today please.

He missed 8.5 games this year bc of his actions.

[BeastMan]

Shrader talked shit to Willie after Stevens threw a TD pass in practice. Shrader got in Willies face and Willie slapped him with his helmet on. No big deal.

But after breaking it down to end practice Shrader couldnt leave well enough alone and they got to bitching and Gay put him in a headlock and hit him several times. This is what happened

You?re close but that?s not exactly it. Just copy and paste the post from sps because that?s exactly what happened and Willie is 100% at fault.

[Charlie_Sheen420]

Shrader talked shit to Willie after Stevens threw a TD pass in practice. Shrader got in Willies face and Willie slapped him with his helmet on. No big deal.

But after breaking it down to end practice Shrader couldnt leave well enough alone and they got to bitching and Gay put him in a headlock and hit him several times. This is what happened

I don?t know what really happened, but from what I was told via a source who knows someone on the team, told me Willie knocked a player down (assumed to be Stevens) and Willie stood over him I guess almost taunting, and Shrader came out and said that would be a penalty. Willie didn?t want to hear it, and I was told he didn?t punch Shrader, but hit him in the face with his helmet (like the Cleveland Pittsburgh incident). Would make more since to me if that happened due to the orbital fracture that occurred. I?ve also heard during the season there was another big fight during practice between the team and led to the entire practice being cancelled which then carried over into the locker room, again don?t know if really true or not, just what I heard. Sounds like the inmates are running the asylum....

[Charlie_Sheen420]

Willie Gay is probably one of the very few bright spots on the team. That dude plays hard every down. Not his fault Slowmo sucks. Fire him today please.

Are you serious? Yes he has talent, but he doesn’t have his head on straight. He’s more of a liability at this point for a penalty. He literally couldn’t even stay in the game for a full half against Kentucky in his first game back for getting 2 unsportsmanlike penalties. He hasn’t been held accountable or disciplined and that’s on the coaching staff, but some people have to help themselves as well and he hasn’t

[Dawgology]

Willie Gay is probably one of the very few bright spots on the team. That dude plays hard every down (in the games he actually plays in). Not his fault Slowmo sucks. Fire him today please.

Fixed it for you

[basedog]

All one needs to say is we really sucked badly yesterday and this past year. First and big mistake for Joe was Stevens not being the QB he and "we" Msu" fans hoped. Second to me anyway was just the lack of play calling skills. Third has to be our "so call strong suit" offense line play, they never looked good, fat and slow. Fourth was our special teams......aw hell not more of this crap we just sucked and so does Joe and most of the staff. It's obvious even to my outside Msu friends Joe isn't the answer.

I still think there is a chance he will be gone in a few days. IF he is smart imo he will take the buyout money and sit next year and recoup, IF he stays he will not win 4 games and his reputation will be further down the gutter as a coach.

I knew as many watching just a few minutes of the game we were not prepared and motivated. I use to think it wasn't as bad as Croom but I think now it is because we had a little more talent on offense. Oh what the heck happened to Mitchell the last few games, he was a non factor and our only receiver with potential?

[Tbonewannabe]

All one needs to say is we really sucked badly yesterday and this past year. First and big mistake for Joe was Stevens not being the QB he and "we" Msu" fans hoped. Second to me anyway was just the lack of play calling skills. Third has to be our "so call strong suit" offense line play, they never looked good, fat and slow. Fourth was our special teams......aw hell not more of this crap we just sucked and so does Joe and most of the staff. It's obvious even to my outside Msu friends Joe isn't the answer.

I still think there is a chance he will be gone in a few days. IF he is smart imo he will take the buyout money and sit next year and recoup, IF he stays he will not win 4 games and his reputation will be further down the gutter as a coach.

I knew as many watching just a few minutes of the game we were not prepared and motivated. I use to think it wasn't as bad as Croom but I think now it is because we had a little more talent on offense. Oh what the heck happened to Mitchell the last few games, he was a non factor and our only receiver with potential?

I think a lot of that falls on Tommy. He just does not do well when he is pressured at all. Almost every time he was blitzed, he made the wrong read or decision including just going backwards to lose yards. Of course the few times he does get people the ball, it is about 50/50 if they drop it.

[Churchill]

I'll say it. I want to believe in Joe Moorhead. I've tried. And I just don't. I can understand the excuses about QB injuries and Tutor Gate. But the reality is you can't defend the sloppiness in all facets of the game. I'm talking about people not knowing when to be on the field or not. Or getting a penalty because you have a guy that's hurt trying to run off the field and you tell him to try to hobble back to the LOS instead of just falling down. We aren't physical and quite frankly our players act entitled on social media. "You don't know what it's like to get up at 5 AM and work out and then go to class." And you don't know what it's like to pass chemistry without cheating (I do). It's just not a good look but not surprising that I see that when you watch the press conference and the coach is telling us to pound sand and kick rocks. That still absolutely blows my mind.

Joe needed to win the bowl game. He didn't and even worse he managed to embarrass MSU in the process with Willie Gay and Garrett Shrader fighting and the QB getting knocked out. And no one is buying any players saying that fights happen all the time and it's no big deal because the reality is none of us can remember a time the QB was ever injured in a fight in practice to the point where he couldn't play. Or any other player really. It turned out to be a factor in the game as Tommy Stevens was horrible. He looked like someone playing with football PTSD and just seemed to freeze time and time again like he didn't know what to do. The tackling was atrocious all year long. Except for the Egg Bowl. And we all see how bad special teams has been and even Joe has not excused that to the press. The fact that Willie Gay is the leader of this team speaks volumes about how much is wrong with our program right now. Yeah- the guy who routinely gets kicked out of games, suspended for cheating, and beat up the QB is our leader. It's a wonder that we somehow managed to cobble together bowl eligibility. But hey- congrats on being better than Matt Luke led on probation Ole Miss (barely) and Arkansas.

I could tolerate the excuses better if we played hard. And we just don't. And that's probably a symptom of what we saw all year long. We think we work hard. We don't. That's the reality.

The other reality is the real root of our problem is actually not Joe. The root of the problem is the people that want to keep him in place for another year for some unknown reason. They can end this and it's not too late but the sun is setting for this year. They're essentially the board of chairmen supervising this business trip which was a collosal failure. We'll see if they drop the axe. Or if they want to pound sand.

Nice synopsis. One question going forward is if Shrader is a smart kid with as much upside as some think...why in the world would he ride this hopeless situation down the toilet ? For the record I'm beginning to wonder how bright he is .

[DeputyDawg94]

Cohen: Joe, this bowl game is strictly business, not vacation with a football game at the end for shits and giggles.

Joe's response: Promptly maxes out the company credit card in the strip club VIP room.
I?m confused. Are we talking Joe or Hugh?***

[basedog]

I think a lot of that falls on Tommy. He just does not do well when he is pressured at all. Almost every time he was blitzed, he made the wrong read or decision including just going backwards to lose yards. Of course the few times he does get people the ball, it is about 50/50 if they drop it.

No doubt TS was a deer in headlights. But so is Joe. I don't think we can blame TS for him wanting to play QB because it was Joe's decision to start him and bench KT. Plain disgusted with the situation right now, glad it's over for now anyway.

[MarketingBully]

He missed 8.5 games this year bc of his actions.

I agree with Msstate7 here. It’s not just the fight. Gay was a central figure in Tutorgate and has been thrown out of multiple games (Eggbowl 18 and Kentucky game this year). He has a history of ****ing up and the fight is just an add to. JoMo’s “program” sucks and I look forward to the day that he is fired.