Opportunity for Moorhead

[msstate7]

We're a favorite in the bowl, and quite frankly, we should just be able to push around Louisville. Next season, Moorhead will get to face 3 1st year sec coaches with 2 of those games at home. If he can win those, OOC games, and beat Kentucky, that's 8 wins. If he can get to 8 next year and makes strides with shrader, he has a chance to really get the fanbase behind him headed into a favorable schedule in 2021.

I'm not saying he will do it... I have severe doubts, but I hopeful this season's disappointment was enough to send Moorhead back to the drawing board and figure some things out.

[timotheus]

Imma stick with callin him "2 less" cuz he always wins bout 2 less than expected. Too many if's with Joe. I'm with u on State should push Louisville around but I'm expecting it to be close like the BFTGE.

[DogsofAnarchy]

We're a favorite in the bowl, and quite frankly, we should just be able to push around Louisville. Next season, Moorhead will get to face 3 1st year sec coaches with 2 of those games at home. If he can win those, OOC games, and beat Kentucky, that's 8 wins. If he can get to 8 next year and makes strides with shrader, he has a chance to really get the fanbase behind him headed into a favorable schedule in 2021.

I'm not saying he will do it... I have severe doubts, but I hopeful this season's disappointment was enough to send Moorhead back to the drawing board and figure some things out.

I agree we should be able to win 8 but we will have a very young offensive team and with no coaching changes on that side of the ball, I see the same stupidity.

[msstate7]

I agree we should be able to win 8 but we will have a very young offensive team and with no coaching changes on that side of the ball, I see the same stupidity.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not predicting 8; I really don't think we will. I do think it's possible though if Moorhead improves

[timotheus]

2 less. remember it

[Todd4State]

I’ll take it a step further. He needs to win those eight and at least split with Auburn and A&M.

[DogsofAnarchy]

Don't get me wrong... I'm not predicting 8; I really don't think we will. I do think it's possible though if Moorhead improves

The only predictions I have given have stated: I do not believe JoMo will make any changes to his staff. He will not hire an OC and I highly doubt you see a change in ST or S&C coaches.

[BulldogDX55]

I agree we should be able to win 8 but we will have a very young offensive team and with no coaching changes on that side of the ball, I see the same stupidity.

Coaching changes usually get made after the season.

[parabrave]

We're a favorite in the bowl, and quite frankly, we should just be able to push around Louisville. Next season, Moorhead will get to face 3 1st year sec coaches with 2 of those games at home. If he can win those, OOC games, and beat Kentucky, that's 8 wins. If he can get to 8 next year and makes strides with shrader, he has a chance to really get the fanbase behind him headed into a favorable schedule in 2021.

I'm not saying he will do it... I have severe doubts, but I hopeful this season's disappointment was enough to send Moorhead back to the drawing board and figure some things out.

2 of those 1st year coaches are upgrades to what he faced this year so you can throw that out the window and he dam should've lost to one of them.

[Todd4State]

The only predictions I have given have stated: I do not believe JoMo will make any changes to his staff. He will not hire an OC and I highly doubt you see a change in ST or S&C coaches.

And you’re going to be wrong about the no staff changes part.

[Coach34]

No way in hell we will 8 games next year

We will struggle at RB
Our WR's will remain bottom 3 in the SEC
Our pass rush will remain weak because we lack DE's that can get after the QB
New Secondary in 2020
If Gay leaves- we will return only 10 starters. That's a rebuild in StarkVegas

Add to that:

Kentucky returns 15 starters and we play there- where we have lost our last 2
Mizzou returns 17 starters- including 10 on defense
NC State returns 19 starters- and its on the road
A&M returns 19 starters unless someone leaves early- return all but 1 in the trenches (this is an example of a young team- which we were not)
Egg Bowl on the road

We will be fighting for 6 wins next year

[Todd4State]

No way in hell we will 8 games next year

We will struggle at RB
Our WR's will remain bottom 3 in the SEC
Our pass rush will remain weak because we lack DE's that can get after the QB
New Secondary in 2020
If Gay leaves- we will return only 10 starters. That's a rebuild in StarkVegas

Add to that:

Kentucky returns 15 starters and we play there- where we have lost our last 2
Mizzou returns 17 starters- including 10 on defense
NC State returns 19 starters- and its on the road
A&M returns 19 starters unless someone leaves early- return all but 1 in the trenches (this is an example of a young team- which we were not)
Egg Bowl on the road

We will be fighting for 6 wins next year

You left off Joe is coming back.

Thing is it’s time for Joe to shit or get off the pot. He wants to run his mouth and he need to back it up. If he is a genius he will find a way to win 8-9 with that schedule.

[DogsofAnarchy]

Coaching changes usually get made after the season.

Assuming there will be changes. I surely hope you are right and I am wrong.

[DogsofAnarchy]

And you’re going to be wrong about the no staff changes part.

Ok. I hope I am Todd.

[maroonmania]

Imma stick with callin him "2 less" cuz he always wins bout 2 less than expected. Too many if's with Joe. I'm with u on State should push Louisville around but I'm expecting it to be close like the BFTGE.

We had every chance in the world to win 8 this year. We didn't beat anyone that we didn't expect to beat this year and TN and K State could have easily been wins had we played like we should have. Granted, Kansas State was better than we thought they would be coming into the year, but NC State next year could end up being better than expected in 2020 as well.

[TrapGame]

Moorhead couldn't coach this team to a NY6 bowl with a loaded team in 2018. Even with any coaching changes I don't see more than 6 wins. It will be called a rebuild year and Joe gets 2021 as the "final" year to see if he can get it going.

[msbulldog]

JoMo can kick Rocks!

[Goldendawg]

Don't get me wrong... I'm not predicting 8; I really don't think we will. I do think it's possible though if Moorhead improves

So, what these type statements really say is that we still have a "Head Coach in Training" going into year 3 of his under achieving tenure. Hoping again for 8 wins. Goal has been reset really low since he arrived with promises of Heismans and Championship Standards! Hail State.

[Dawgology]

6 wins is our ceiling next year. We will only win 5. Book it.

[HailStateSZN19]

I?m not saying anything is ?going to? happen because well, we haven?t been given a ton to draw optimism from. But to keep pointing back to the 2018 season is getting old. Yes, he absolutely underachieved and it was criminal what was done with all the talent on that team. But to continue to suggest that a coach can?t learn from HIS FIRST YEAR AS A P5 COACH, well that?s just ignorant. Joe is a smart man. He CAN learn and grow from things as a coach. WILL he? That remains to be seen. But to keep acting like there?s not the possibility that he can grow from his first 2 seasons & change up some things now that his back is against the wall at his first P5 HC gig, well I just get tired of driving the 2018 crap into the ground. It?s done & happened. I put just as much blame on Cohen for the 2018 season for going out and hiring a non-proven HC with no P5 or G5 coaching experience to take all that 2018 talent. Again, I was on the ?fire Joe? train from the UT game throughout the rest of the season this year. But once it became apparent that he?d be our coach, I moved on and have been trying to find reasons to find any optimism. Well, I?m getting it from the hope that since Joe is a smart guy, he can realize things need to change next season or he?s gone. Hopefully, he goes out and makes some serious staff changes. If he doesn?t do that, then my optimism is out the window. But until the time has come & gone that he could make some serious staff changes, I?m going to try to be optimistic and not be just miserable about MSU football. That?s JUST my take on all this. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and feelings and rightfully so. But I think we can all agree we want what?s best for MSU football and that?s success. And our best possible outcome is for Joe to sign a good class coming up, win the bowl game, make some staff changes, and win 8 games next season.

[MaroonFlounder]

Assuming there will be changes. I surely hope you are right and I am wrong.

Joe has said that changes will be made, he did not elaborate who and where.

[Coach34]

I?m not saying anything is ?going to? happen because well, we haven?t been given a ton to draw optimism from. But to keep pointing back to the 2018 season is getting old. Yes, he absolutely underachieved and it was criminal what was done with all the talent on that team. But to continue to suggest that a coach can?t learn from HIS FIRST YEAR AS A P5 COACH, well that?s just ignorant. Joe is a smart man. He CAN learn and grow from things as a coach. WILL he? That remains to be seen. But to keep acting like there?s not the possibility that he can grow from his first 2 seasons & change up some things now that his back is against the wall at his first P5 HC gig, well I just get tired of driving the 2018 crap into the ground. It?s done & happened. I put just as much blame on Cohen for the 2018 season for going out and hiring a non-proven HC with no P5 or G5 coaching experience to take all that 2018 talent. Again, I was on the ?fire Joe? train from the UT game throughout the rest of the season this year. But once it became apparent that he?d be our coach, I moved on and have been trying to find reasons to find any optimism. Well, I?m getting it from the hope that since Joe is a smart guy, he can realize things need to change next season or he?s gone. Hopefully, he goes out and makes some serious staff changes. If he doesn?t do that, then my optimism is out the window. But until the time has come & gone that he could make some serious staff changes, I?m going to try to be optimistic and not be just miserable about MSU football. That?s JUST my take on all this. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and feelings and rightfully so. But I think we can all agree we want what?s best for MSU football and that?s success. And our best possible outcome is for Joe to sign a good class coming up, win the bowl game, make some staff changes, and win 8 games next season.

Name the last time we won 8 games in a season while returning only 10-11 starters? The years we have had good football teams were years we had over half the team's starters returning. Years we had to fight to win 6? We had to replace half our starters. It's really pretty simple breaking us down

[maroonmania]

I?m not saying anything is ?going to? happen because well, we haven?t been given a ton to draw optimism from. But to keep pointing back to the 2018 season is getting old. Yes, he absolutely underachieved and it was criminal what was done with all the talent on that team. But to continue to suggest that a coach can?t learn from HIS FIRST YEAR AS A P5 COACH, well that?s just ignorant. Joe is a smart man. He CAN learn and grow from things as a coach. WILL he? That remains to be seen. But to keep acting like there?s not the possibility that he can grow from his first 2 seasons & change up some things now that his back is against the wall at his first P5 HC gig, well I just get tired of driving the 2018 crap into the ground. It?s done & happened. I put just as much blame on Cohen for the 2018 season for going out and hiring a non-proven HC with no P5 or G5 coaching experience to take all that 2018 talent. Again, I was on the ?fire Joe? train from the UT game throughout the rest of the season this year. But once it became apparent that he?d be our coach, I moved on and have been trying to find reasons to find any optimism. Well, I?m getting it from the hope that since Joe is a smart guy, he can realize things need to change next season or he?s gone. Hopefully, he goes out and makes some serious staff changes. If he doesn?t do that, then my optimism is out the window. But until the time has come & gone that he could make some serious staff changes, I?m going to try to be optimistic and not be just miserable about MSU football. That?s JUST my take on all this. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and feelings and rightfully so. But I think we can all agree we want what?s best for MSU football and that?s success. And our best possible outcome is for Joe to sign a good class coming up, win the bowl game, make some staff changes, and win 8 games next season.

I totally agree with you. My concern though is that Joe, in his 3rd year, is going to have less offensive weapons to work with than either of his first 2 years. That is just a really significant problem for him to overcome. I think Shrader is going to be much improved and QB will likely be a strength but we will have no proven playmakers at RB or WR and OL loses a couple of big pieces as well. He has his work cut out for him to improve the offense next year over what he had this year.

[DogsofAnarchy]

Joe has said that changes will be made, he did not elaborate who and where.

Yes. I know what Jomo and Cohen have said and I know what I have said. I....doubt there will be ANY changes at all. Now some coach may decide to take another job but we will not fire or replace any coaches.

[OLJWales]

We're a favorite in the bowl, and quite frankly, we should just be able to push around Louisville. Next season, Moorhead will get to face 3 1st year sec coaches with 2 of those games at home. If he can win those, OOC games, and beat Kentucky, that's 8 wins. If he can get to 8 next year and makes strides with shrader, he has a chance to really get the fanbase behind him headed into a favorable schedule in 2021.

I'm not saying he will do it... I have severe doubts, but I hopeful this season's disappointment was enough to send Moorhead back to the drawing board and figure some things out.

Good post 7 and I hope you are right despite my reservations and lack of confidence. Wake me up once (hopefully) we have a new S&C Coach. That's all we got now, might as well hope for the best. Hail State.

[OLJWales]

Yes. I know what Jomo and Cohen have said and I know what I have said. I....doubt there will be ANY changes at all. Now some coach may decide to take another job but we will not fire or replace any coaches.

So you are confident we will retain the S&C Coach?

[DogsofAnarchy]

So you are confident we will retain the S&C Coach?

I’m not confident we will retain the S&C coach. I just highly doubt we will FIRE the S&C coach even though that’s an obviously deficient part of our program. Same as ST and not having a REAL OC.

[Todd4State]

Name the last time we won 8 games in a season while returning only 10-11 starters? The years we have had good football teams were years we had over half the team's starters returning. Years we had to fight to win 6? We had to replace half our starters. It's really pretty simple breaking us down

Without looking so I may be wrong as this is just a total guess- but maybe 2017. I know we added a ton of JUCO players on defense that year- hence why I am making that guess.

Anyway- next year we return our QB, Osirus and four guys that have started before on the o-line. I suspect we will start Payton and Dontae Jones who will both be seniors and probably should have started this year anyway. Payton is definitely an upgrade from Guidry. Have to find a running back- I think Marks will be OK, a slot WR- probably Austin Williams if I had to guess, and a LT which will probably be Cross or Dolla Bill both of whom yes are inexperienced but are also our two highest rated OL as far as recruiting rankings go.

Defense we have two senior DE's and three of our top DT's coming back plus the JUCO guys. Yeah we won't be 2018 good here but we should be better than we were this year. Errol will be back and if Gay goes pro we have Wheat and Aaron Brule. Should be OK here especially considering we normally play two LB's anyway. Emerson, Jones, and Williams all played a lot this year and I know Emerson started. Should be Ok there. Marcus Murphy would have been a starter for us if not for Tutor Gate. Other safety is a question mark right now but Peters played better late in the year, we'll see how CJ Morgan looks coming off of surgery and then we have Forbes and Dean coming in who could potentially help us right away.

We also return all of our kickers back.

Anyway- unless Bracky screws us over again we're returning a lot of guys that have played a lot whether they have started or not. And yes we have a few question marks but if Joe can't figure out how to win eight he needs to move back to New England.

[Todd4State]

I’m not confident we will retain the S&C coach. I just highly doubt we will FIRE the S&C coach even though that’s an obviously deficient part of our program. Same as ST and not having a REAL OC.

I'm not sure why optics matter but if Jones and Bichy leave on their "own" it's still a change. It's not like MSU to rake someone over the coals no matter how bad they are.

Joe even called our special teams ridiculous multiple times on live TV....why would he want to KEEP that up? He obviously sees it.

[RougeDawg]

JoVester had a great opportunity in 2018 with a roster full of NFL talent and the SEC’s all time leading rusher at QB. Only a complete incompetent moron could f*ck that up.

We may win 6, but that does not matter. If we beat the lowly bearsharts next November he will get a raise and an extension.

[Todd4State]

I?m not saying anything is ?going to? happen because well, we haven?t been given a ton to draw optimism from. But to keep pointing back to the 2018 season is getting old. Yes, he absolutely underachieved and it was criminal what was done with all the talent on that team. But to continue to suggest that a coach can?t learn from HIS FIRST YEAR AS A P5 COACH, well that?s just ignorant. Joe is a smart man. He CAN learn and grow from things as a coach. WILL he? That remains to be seen. But to keep acting like there?s not the possibility that he can grow from his first 2 seasons & change up some things now that his back is against the wall at his first P5 HC gig, well I just get tired of driving the 2018 crap into the ground. It?s done & happened. I put just as much blame on Cohen for the 2018 season for going out and hiring a non-proven HC with no P5 or G5 coaching experience to take all that 2018 talent. Again, I was on the ?fire Joe? train from the UT game throughout the rest of the season this year. But once it became apparent that he?d be our coach, I moved on and have been trying to find reasons to find any optimism. Well, I?m getting it from the hope that since Joe is a smart guy, he can realize things need to change next season or he?s gone. Hopefully, he goes out and makes some serious staff changes. If he doesn?t do that, then my optimism is out the window. But until the time has come & gone that he could make some serious staff changes, I?m going to try to be optimistic and not be just miserable about MSU football. That?s JUST my take on all this. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and feelings and rightfully so. But I think we can all agree we want what?s best for MSU football and that?s success. And our best possible outcome is for Joe to sign a good class coming up, win the bowl game, make some staff changes, and win 8 games next season.

People want Joe to be Croom so bad. The reality is he's not as bad as Croom. Now that doesn't make him the right guy or good or anything like that.

The biggest thing is Joe has to stop running his mouth off at our fans and boosters. He's just making it harder on himself. And I would be fine personally dragging his Yankee ass out of the Bryan Building if it came down to it. If that's how he wants it to end that's fine with me.

[timotheus]

Moorhead has had plenty opportunities.........******** and Rouge is right, joe will prob win 5 or 6 next year and claim much improvement in continuity and continual pursuit of excellence.

[JoseBrown]

My $0.02 worth from reading this thread: I could see some changes made, but what I don't think we see change is anything on the field. Speaking of 2018, the AU game some changes were made and they worked. We haven't seen changes like that, on the field, again. And the two coaches I've seen rumored to be responsible for those changes are gone. Based on that, I'm not expecting any on field changes, even if he replaced everyone with a hand in HIS program. If he proves me wrong I'll warm up to possibly believing in him..

The roster and schedule will change, but I expect us to look very similar to every game he's coached here minus 2018 AU game. I'll be hoping new faces make the game work better for us on the field. Always support our players, coach's on the other hand can kick rocks and pound sand, because it's never THEIR program, it's ours. They can be one of us like Felker and the Kang, but they aren't one of us by default.

[Todd4State]

JoVester had a great opportunity in 2018 with a roster full of NFL talent and the SEC’s all time leading rusher at QB. Only a complete incompetent moron could f*ck that up.

We may win 6, but that does not matter. If we beat the lowly bearsharts next November he will get a raise and an extension.

That may very well be the case but if he doesn't start winning the ice is only going to get thinner. And our boosters now have the advantage of knowing that he's going to want the full buyout next year.

[Todd4State]

My $0.02 worth from reading this thread: I could see some changes made, but what I don't think we see change is anything on the field. Speaking of 2018, the AU game some changes were made and they worked. We haven't seen changes like that, on the field, again. And the two coaches I've seen rumored to be responsible for those changes are gone. Based on that, I'm not expecting any on field changes, even if he replaced everyone with a hand in HIS program. If he proves me wrong I'll warm up to possibly believing in him..

The roster and schedule will change, but I expect us to look very similar to every game he's coached here minus 2018 AU game. I'll be hoping new faces make the game work better for us on the field. Always support our players, coach's on the other hand can kick rocks and pound sand, because it's never THEIR program, it's ours. They can be one of us like Felker and the Kang, but they aren't one of us by default.

He better hope that Heath can be a consistent WR an that Osirus can become a legit deep threat his senior year. Good luck Joe!

[Bothrops]

He better hope that Heath can be a consistent WR an that Osirus can become a legit deep threat his senior year. Good luck Joe!

We will never have a deep threat WR at MSU again. We can have guys that occasionally catch deep, but never consistently. Just the way it is.

[Todd4State]

We will never have a deep threat WR at MSU again. We can have guys that occasionally catch deep, but never consistently. Just the way it is.

Why not? USM can find one. Football is becoming more and more of a passing game meaning the odds of finding one are higher because that trickles down to the high school level.

I'm not asking for Jerry Rice. I'm asking for another Chad Bumphis or Fred Ross.

[Coach34]

He better hope that Heath can be a consistent WR an that Osirus can become a legit deep threat his senior year. Good luck Joe!

Remember back in August how we kept hearing about Payton killing it at practices and would make an impact in 2019? 7 catches this season. Not to mention Heath hasn't signed yet.

[maroonmania]

The biggest thing is Joe has to stop running his mouth off at our fans and boosters. He's just making it harder on himself. And I would be fine personally dragging his Yankee ass out of the Bryan Building if it came down to it. If that's how he wants it to end that's fine with me.

Yea, when you barely squeak by a 4-7 team at home to avoid a losing season, that is not the time to run your mouth at your naysayers like you just unexpectedly led a team to a conference title.

[parabrave]

Why not? USM can find one. Football is becoming more and more of a passing game meaning the odds of finding one are higher because that trickles down to the high school level.

I'm not asking for Jerry Rice. I'm asking for another Chad Bumphis or Fred Ross.

If that Tim Jones you're ralking about at USM; he wanted to come to State but he tore his knee up in HS. USM was the only team that gave him a chance.

[parabrave]

Hey Aik eat shit and die. Whoops wrong thread

[DogsofAnarchy]

Remember back in August how we kept hearing about Payton killing it at practices and would make an impact in 2019? 7 catches this season. Not to mention Heath hasn't signed yet.

That’s not the players. That reeks of bad OFFENSE, bad Play Calling and bad scheme.

[maroonmania]

That’s not the players. That reeks of bad OFFENSE, bad Play Calling and bad scheme.

I think it speaks to the fact that the JoMo offense has a ton of in play reads and complexities that does not lend itself to getting much out of first year players. Especially in the passing game. Just too much to learn and adapt to.

[Todd4State]

Remember back in August how we kept hearing about Payton killing it at practices and would make an impact in 2019? 7 catches this season. Not to mention Heath hasn't signed yet.

Based on what I saw during the games he was better than Guidry. It?s not the experts fault if Joe can?t figure out that the guy drooping passes left and right isn?t going to figure it out by game 18.

[Todd4State]

Yea, when you barely squeak by a 4-7 team at home to avoid a losing season, that is not the time to run your mouth at your naysayers like you just unexpectedly led a team to a conference title.

At least now the marketing department is going to have to work.


If that Tim Jones you're ralking about at USM; he wanted to come to State but he tore his knee up in HS. USM was the only team that gave him a chance.

I was talking about Quez Watkins but your point remains.

[Bothrops]

I'm asking for another Chad Bumphis or Fred Ross.

We can get those guys here and there, but not enough at one time.

[Homedawg]

Moorhead has had plenty opportunities.........******** and Rouge is right, joe will prob win 5 or 6 next year and claim much improvement in continuity and continual pursuit of excellence.

While continually pointing out we've never won....

[Todd4State]

We can get those guys here and there, but not enough at one time.

I would be fine with one at a time. Especially if the other guy is a possession guy and is fairly consistent and the slot guy is at least Jameon Lewis caliber.

[RougeDawg]

Why not? USM can find one. Football is becoming more and more of a passing game meaning the odds of finding one are higher because that trickles down to the high school level.

I'm not asking for Jerry Rice. I'm asking for another Chad Bumphis or Fred Ross.

I’m just asking for someone who can catch a football when it hits their hands. I’d be willing to bet $10k that JoVester could go down to the intramural fields any given week and find 8-10 guys that can catch better than what we have. It’s laughable at this point to have so called “SEC” receivers that we do.

We need to change our WR group name to “uniform mannequins”. The only thing they have received on campus are their scholarships and 3 meals a day.

[DeputyDawg94]

I’m to the point where I don’t expect anything positive from Joe. With Kylin’s decision to go pro the O is going to really struggle and I have no expectations of winning more than 6. And if one of those is OM we’re probably stuck again.

I’ll be surprised if he makes any significant changes to either the staff or his O. If he does fire some coaches what quality replacements can you find to come work for a lame duck coach? The replacements might actually be worse with the exception on Joey Jones. My wife could coach ST better than him. Guess I’ll kick rocks till 2021 when hopefully we get OUR program back form this smart mouthed non coaching Yankee.

[RougeDawg]

I?m to the point where I don?t expect anything positive from Joe. With Kylin?s decision to go pro the O is going to really struggle and I have no expectations of winning more than 6. And if one of those is OM we?re probably stuck again.

I?ll be surprised if he makes any significant changes to either the staff or his O. If he does fire some coaches what quality replacements can you find to come work for a lame duck coach? The replacements might actually be worse with the exception on Joey Jones. My wife could coach ST better than him. Guess I?ll kick rocks till 2021 when hopefully we get OUR program back form this smart mouthed non coaching Yankee.

Speaking of kicking rocks, do the rocks inside of JoVesters skull count? Those have been kicked around by any team with a pulse for 2 seasons.

[lastmajordog]

I think Coach 34 is spot on.....I WISH he was wrong....I hope I?M WRONG....JOMO please prove me wrong.........

[Todd4State]

I’m just asking for someone who can catch a football when it hits their hands. I’d be willing to bet $10k that JoVester could go down to the intramural fields any given week and find 8-10 guys that can catch better than what we have. It’s laughable at this point to have so called “SEC” receivers that we do.

We need to change our WR group name to “uniform mannequins”. The only thing they have received on campus are their scholarships and 3 meals a day.

I agree. Again- I thought Payton was pretty good at least at catching the ball. I don't know why he didn't play over Guidry. He's not a game breaker but he works hard and he usually catches it when it's thrown to him. Austin Williams has made some nice catches in his career too.