Has 10 Straight Bowl Games Helped Our Program?

[ShotgunDawg]

For many older dogs, going to 10 straight bowl games must be something you couldn't have envisioned in your wildest dreams.

However, other then slightly altering the expectations of MSU football (and I say slightly because keeping Moorhead proved our expectations haven't dramatically changed), how has 10 straight bowl games helped our program?

Do we sell more tickets?

Do we recruit better?

Have we closed the gap on the blue bloods?

Has our brand grown?

All we had been told is that we just needed to win, but now that we've won for a decade, that doesn't seem to be really working.

How do we move the needle? Should we take more risk?

[msbulldog]

I like it.

[Liverpooldawg]

The answer to all of those is yes.

[ShotgunDawg]

And I'm not trying to make an argument against bowl games. Just questioning why we've reached this incredible level of stagnation when you'd think the program and program's profile would be growing.

[ShotgunDawg]

The answer to all of those is yes.

Really?

[lefty96]

Brand has certainly grown. Think of what the stadium was like a decade ago. I graduated in the 90's and what we have now is just barely recognizable.

The rest, I get what you are saying and it is true to a point. The problem is the gap is so large and the other programs are exactly treading water waiting on us.

[Dawgbite]

Yes, but its made most of our fans recruiting and coaching genius's as well as raging assholes!

[TrapGame]

Brand has grown but I think Mullen missed some opportunities to expand our footprint. If Mullen had held his ego in check and spent most Novembers coaching instead of looking we could have been to more NY6 bowls and a couple of extra 10-2 seasons on his resume. There was no huge PR/marketing push for our 2014 year. That was probably the biggest missed opportunity under Mullen.

[StateDawg44]

Meh. I mean I guess, but it's not like they were primetime bowls.

Making it to a lower-tier bowl now just seems like the equivalent of not having a college degree in today's job market. Yeah HS diploma is great and definitely is a plus but doesn't carry as much weight or have the luster as it once did.

The 10 we have been to have in no way hurt the program so. So what's the point of the questions?

[Liverpooldawg]

Really?

Yes, really. We are light years ahead of where we used to be. That isn't even debatable.

[Liverpooldawg]

Meh. I mean I guess, but it's not like they were primetime bowls.

Making it to a lower-tier bowl now just seems like the equivalent of not having a college degree in today's job market. Yeah HS diploma is great and definitely is a plus but doesn't carry as much weight or have the luster as it once did.

The 10 we have been to have in no way hurt the program so. So what's the point of the questions?

10 years ago we had a GED.

[Maroonthirteen]

Yes
Yes
Yes
No, but that has more to do with the make up off college football rather than MSU individually.
Yes.

State needs to do a better job marketing. Fans need to be more positive. State needs to make more of presence in Jackson, Memphis and Bham.

[Dawgbite]

10 years ago we had a GED.

Ten years ago we were still shitting in our own pants and watching Scooby Doo on TV.

[Liverpooldawg]

Ten years ago we were still shitting in our own pants and watching Scooby Doo on TV.

That was pre JWS.

[Dawgology]

It's kind of interesting. There were several national media members a few weeks ago implying that State could do better than Moorhead. That indicates to me that the national perception of our program may be improved a bit. 10 years ago the national media would have been saying that State should be happy with a coach that gets them to 6 wins.

Funny thing is that I think internally the perception is still "po' ol' mittitipi tate" by the folks who hold the purse strings. As you stated above, keeping Moorhead signaled to most that our own expectations for our program haven't really shifted.

[BulldogDX55]

We average a rank of about 25-30 in recruiting despite one of the smallest budgets in P5 conferences. We're punching above our weight. Part of that is SEC membership, part is sustained success.

[basedog]

I remember the days when ALL Msu fans hoped for a winning season and go to a bowl say 3 or 4 times a decade!

Answer is simple:

University is growing which brings in more money.
Better facilities.
Better Coaches.
Better Players.
Sec expanding which brought more TV and National coverage to all teams along with money.
StarkVegas is growing.
Bowls expanding to around 70 teams.
Better Leadership.

All of the things listed are all positives for our University And Sports teams!

[Pipedream]

For many older dogs, going to 10 straight bowl games must be something you couldn't have envisioned in your wildest dreams.

However, other then slightly altering the expectations of MSU football (and I say slightly because keeping Moorhead proved our expectations haven't dramatically changed), how has 10 straight bowl games helped our program?

Do we sell more tickets?

Do we recruit better?

Have we closed the gap on the blue bloods?

Has our brand grown?

All we had been told is that we just needed to win, but now that we've won for a decade, that doesn't seem to be really working.

How do we move the needle? Should we take more risk?

The answers you are looking for is really outlined by a different question. Like "Has going to 10 bowl games made the impact you'd usually associate with that type of consistent success?" To that the answer would be no. During the 10 year bowl streak, not much has changed. Recruiting at about the same level with respect to inflation. Prestige/exposure the same. But the following numbers really show the old adage that it's easy to go from bad to average to good than it is to go from good to great. We are a good program right now. Probably a top 25 by most metrics, but we're still in the bottom half of our own league/division.

SP+ average rating (how many points are you better than an average FBS team on a neutral field)
2005-2009 Croom + Mullen Year 1: -3.16 (associates to roughly a top 75 team)
2010-2014 Early Mullen and Year 1 of Full Dak: +11.92 (associates to roughly a top 30 team)
2015-2019 Late Mullen and Moorhead: +12.96 (associates roughly to a top 25 team)

You could probably pull that decade out and say it's the best decade in program history.

[SheltonChoked]

For many older dogs, going to 10 straight bowl games must be something you couldn't have envisioned in your wildest dreams.

However, other then slightly altering the expectations of MSU football (and I say slightly because keeping Moorhead proved our expectations haven't dramatically changed), how has 10 straight bowl games helped our program?

Do we sell more tickets?

Do we recruit better?

Have we closed the gap on the blue bloods?

Has our brand grown?

All we had been told is that we just needed to win, but now that we've won for a decade, that doesn't seem to be really working.

How do we move the needle? Should we take more risk?

IMO, The largest benefit of bowl games is the extra practice time.

Even more so with the new early signing period, and allowing Signees to practice.

Having freshmen participate in drills against SEC athletes before the spring let's them see what it is really about.

A bowl game gives you 2 spring trainings. (each 15 practices)

To answer your other questions, during the bowl streak we expanded the stadium, and were ranked #1.

We don't move the needle enough to get the star bump of a bama, lsu, osu to get our recruiting profile up.

As for catching the blue bloods, being in a division with Saban makes that almost impossible. Auburn, LSU, and recently TAMU have had Top 10 recruiting classes for the last 10 years, and had to catch lightning in a bottle in addition to matching Alabama's talent to win the SEC. And TAMU couldn't even do that.

The name and likeness rules are about to completely change the game, even more than the Transfer Portal has. If I knew how it was going to change, they would pay me a lot more than they do now.

[AROB44]

Yes, but its made most of our fans recruiting and coaching genius's as well as raging assholes!

+1000

[ShotgunDawg]

We average a rank of about 25-30 in recruiting despite one of the smallest budgets in P5 conferences. We're punching above our weight. Part of that is SEC membership, part is sustained success.

If you mean by just money then yes. If you mean an SEC team located in a state with the 2nd highest per capital rate of producing NFL players then we aren’t punching above our weight.

It’s about a lot more than money.

[BrunswickDawg]

For many older dogs, going to 10 straight bowl games must be something you couldn't have envisioned in your wildest dreams.

However, other then slightly altering the expectations of MSU football (and I say slightly because keeping Moorhead proved our expectations haven't dramatically changed), how has 10 straight bowl games helped our program?

Do we sell more tickets?

Do we recruit better?

Have we closed the gap on the blue bloods?

Has our brand grown?

All we had been told is that we just needed to win, but now that we've won for a decade, that doesn't seem to be really working.

How do we move the needle? Should we take more risk?

The answer to all is yes.

I'd be interested to know how many respondents to this question are in-state versus those of us who are out of state. I can tell you being 9 hours away the profile for MSU is much higher than it was a decade ago, and light years away from what it was when I started school in '91. It may help having a bonafide NFL star like Darius Slay being from this community, on top of having a semi-local kid as our QB for 3 years - but awareness of MSU is significantly better here than it has ever been.'

the answer to you last question is - keep winning, and take calculated risks

[gravedigger]

And I'm not trying to make an argument against bowl games. Just questioning why we've reached this incredible level of stagnation when you'd think the program and program's profile would be growing.

The problem is in defining it as stagnation. It isn't

[msu15]

One of your all time worst takes big man.

[ShotgunDawg]

One of your all time worst takes big man.

Feel free to actually add to the discussion

[MoreCowbell]

I will say this, we have been getting the benefit of doubt more now than ever. People know who Miss. State is now and I believe we are viewed much more favorably by national media than 10 years ago. We were going to fire a coach 2 years in after an 8-5 and possible 6-6 season and national media would have agreed with the decision. Reaching #1, 10 straight bowls, Dak Prescott, Orange Bowl, besting Lamar Jackson, #1 Defense, Mullen, numerous too 10 wins, we are looked at as a top 25 program right now IMO.

[BrunswickDawg]

And I'm not trying to make an argument against bowl games. Just questioning why we've reached this incredible level of stagnation when you'd think the program and program's profile would be growing.

How is it stagnation when only 5 SEC teams have been able to accomplish it? How is it stagnation when we had never been to more than 5 bowls in a decade? How is it stagnation when we went to 2 bowls in the previous decade?

It's a BFD. We can be unsatisfied with this season, but to diminish positives things like this is stupid.

[FriarsPoint]

I will say this, we have been getting the benefit of doubt more now than ever. People know who Miss. State is now and I believe we are viewed much more favorably by national media than 10 years ago. We were going to fire a coach 2 years in after an 8-5 and possible 6-6 season and national media would have agreed with the decision. Reaching #1, 10 straight bowls, Dak Prescott, Orange Bowl, besting Lamar Jackson, #1 Defense, Mullen, numerous too 10 wins, we are looked at as a top 25 program right now IMO.

^^^^^^^^^Agree

[TrapGame]

I will say this, we have been getting the benefit of doubt more now than ever. People know who Miss. State is now and I believe we are viewed much more favorably by national media than 10 years ago. We were going to fire a coach 2 years in after an 8-5 and possible 6-6 season and national media would have agreed with the decision. Reaching #1, 10 straight bowls, Dak Prescott, Orange Bowl, besting Lamar Jackson, #1 Defense, Mullen, numerous too 10 wins, we are looked at as a top 25 program right now IMO.

Too bad Moorhead doesn't have a damn clue what to do with this.

[Cooterpoot]

And I'm not trying to make an argument against bowl games. Just questioning why we've reached this incredible level of stagnation when you'd think the program and program's profile would be growing.

We?ve maxed out. We?re a middle of the pack program. Until we decide to get serious about football, we?ve reached our limits. Current admin is happy with 6-8 wins and a 9-10 win year every decade. Bowl games are more for the players than the program.

[confucius say]

It absolutely has helped sell tix. Look at our paid attendance then and now.

Our brand is larger than ever, though still not huge.

And your absolute floor being a bowl game is a huge thing. If nothing else, it shows consistency. Which is how you build a program for the long haul. Try being OM and not going to a bowl game for years. It is why they will sell out the next one they go to, just like Birmingham in 2012.

Frankly, we should have billboards all over the state touting it. Just a white board with the phrase, 10 straight, written in maroon.

[NaborhoodDawg]

I think that it mainly helps from a recruiting standpoint. As it has been said, there are only 13 FBS teams in the country to go to a bowl every year this decade. Don?t think that that isn?t a main point on the recruiting trail.

[Commercecomet24]

I will say this I have a lot of friends in the West and Pacific Northwest and they all know who MSU is now. 15-20 years ago they had no idea. I do agree with Cooters assessment that we are maxed out as program right now and our ceiling is 6-8 wins a year.

[Coursesuper]

We?ve maxed out. We?re a middle of the pack program. Until we decide to get serious about football, we?ve reached our limits. Current admin is happy with 6-8 wins and a 9-10 win year every decade. Bowl games are more for the players than the program.

This is an excellent assessment of where we are at this point.

[StateDawg44]

10 years ago we had a GED.

Glad what I was trying to say made sense. I totally agree and it's definitely an accomplishment and worth mentioning.

I'm just saying making it to a bowl now isn't the same as it used to be even 10 years ago. Besides different payouts and the extra practice time you get, unless you are in a NY6 bowl or get a playoff berth, the 3rd tier bowls all measure out to be the same in the eyes of a recruit I'd have to imagine.

[TrapGame]

We?ve maxed out. We?re a middle of the pack program. Until we decide to get serious about football, we?ve reached our limits. Current admin is happy with 6-8 wins and a 9-10 win year every decade. Bowl games are more for the players than the program.

Truth.

[TaleofTwoDogs]

We average a rank of about 25-30 in recruiting despite one of the smallest budgets in P5 conferences. We're punching above our weight. Part of that is SEC membership, part is sustained success.

This myth of MSU being at the bottom of the barrel in finances needs to stop. State is ranked #35 of all Div I schools and probably middle of the pack in P5. Our budget is over $100 million (per USA Today). How much does it take to win?

[ShotgunDawg]

I think that it mainly helps from a recruiting standpoint. As it has been said, there are only 13 FBS teams in the country to go to a bowl every year this decade. Don?t think that that isn?t a main point on the recruiting trail.

But with our recruiting ranking, I'm not sure it's helping.

[basedog]

We?ve maxed out. We?re a middle of the pack program. Until we decide to get serious about football, we?ve reached our limits. Current admin is happy with 6-8 wins and a 9-10 win year every decade. Bowl games are more for the players than the program.

No way we have maxed out. We will always have ups and downs but never 1-Tech again. I've seen so much improvement over the decades and I see better days, maybe after Joe.

[dawgs]

I will say this I have a lot of friends in the West and Pacific Northwest and they all know who MSU is now. 15-20 years ago they had no idea. I do agree with Cooters assessment that we are maxed out as program right now and our ceiling is 6-8 wins a year.

That's cause all us out here are transplants these days, ha. There's probably some rise in awareness, but for the most part I think there's just a rise in awareness of every P5 program with every game on tv and access to scores and stats just a click away.

[DogsofAnarchy]

For many older dogs, going to 10 straight bowl games must be something you couldn't have envisioned in your wildest dreams.

However, other then slightly altering the expectations of MSU football (and I say slightly because keeping Moorhead proved our expectations haven't dramatically changed), how has 10 straight bowl games helped our program?

Do we sell more tickets?

Do we recruit better?

Have we closed the gap on the blue bloods?

Has our brand grown?

All we had been told is that we just needed to win, but now that we've won for a decade, that doesn't seem to be really working.

How do we move the needle? Should we take more risk?

Made us about 40 Extra million to pay for shit with.