Joe Mo, if you are a smart guy like Cohen says you are...

[HoopsDawg]

build an offense like the Ravens that doesn't rely on Wide Receivers.

https://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/news-notes-why-greg-roman-loves-the-pistol-formation

I have read 20 articles on the Ravens system this season. It's pretty much the perfect system for MSU. It's a Power based offense. They lead the NFL in rushing. It's very simple. Multiple formations allow you to be extremely VERSATILE in the run game. That's something that JoeMo severely lacks with our 100% 11 personnel.

[parabrave]

Dan Mulleg agrees

[TUSK]

Not to hijack, but isn't Mark Ingram their RB, now? If so, how does he help the scheme...?

[HoopsDawg]

Not to hijack, but isn't Mark Ingram their RB, now? If so, how does he help the scheme...?

Ingram is a stud. He's been wearing teams out running between the tackles either downhill out of the Pistol or on basic shotgun read option plays. The Ravens passing game is built on play action passes that Ingram and Edwards set up.

They also have a cool formation called "Heisman" where Lamar, Ingram and RG3 line up in the backfield together-3 Heisman winners.

[dawgday166]

Not to hijack, but isn't Mark Ingram their RB, now? If so, how does he help the scheme...?

He's what makes it tic. He upper-tier talent. We more interested with the average players in that scheme like ... Lamar Jackson ****

[trojandawg]

Yes it?s a very good system and smart. Definitely not something Moorhead would do. It?s not him or what he wants to run though. Nothing wrong with his system.

[HoopsDawg]

He's what makes it tic. He upper-tier talent. We more interested with the average players in that scheme like ... Lamar Jackson ****

Garret Shrader can play the Lamar Jackson role. He's not Lamar, but he's mobile. Kylin Hill and Nick Gibson were a good version of Ingram and Edwards. The Ravens ran the ball 8 times on their opening drive the other day out of 8 different formations.

[HoopsDawg]

Yes it?s a very good system and smart. Definitely not something Moorhead would do. It?s not him or what he wants to run though. Nothing wrong with his system.

I disagree. There's a whole lot wrong with Moorhead's system. I will expand later when I have time.

[dantheman4248]

It's crazy because they talked about Greg Roman consulting with Joe Moorhead in the offseason to help develop a system for Lamar. Heard it during Ravens-Texans game and am sitting here wondering how our coach can be in such great company all the time and not be smart. I'm convinced Moorhead will be a career great OC if he accepts that he's not a lead man.

[chef dixon]

Every year our tight ends are the next big thing and they end the year with 2 catches each

[timotheus]

i noticed that as well. Farrod looked good on the 1 play early in the BFTGE but we never looked at a TE again.

[HoopsDawg]

It's crazy because they talked about Greg Roman consulting with Joe Moorhead in the offseason to help develop a system for Lamar. Heard it during Ravens-Texans game and am sitting here wondering how our coach can be in such great company all the time and not be smart. I'm convinced Moorhead will be a career great OC if he accepts that he's not a lead man.

Roman brought in Paul Johnson to teach option concepts. He may have consulted with Moorhead on RPO concepts. Moorhead is extremely well versed in RPO principals. But the RPO is not an offense. In the NFL, teams run it about 8 times per game on average. Joe at MSU probably runs more RPO's than any team in sports. It should be used 20% of the time max. As far as I know, we run RPO's more than 80% of the time.

[bulldawg28]

KT threw the ball to TE's a fair amount.

[Todd4State]

I think a lot of Joe's problem is his insistence on staying with mostly the same personnel groupings for most formations. Three receivers and a TE might be fine if we were strong at WR but the past two years we've had at least two top notch running backs and typically only use one of them at a time in a formation. Aeris could block well. Kylin can catch the ball pretty well. Gibson is a very underrated back who makes plays and is consistent. All are three of our best players. But yet we insist on receivers who are near the bottom of the SEC in YAC. If we had some two back sets or used Kylin as a WR some- I mean I know we motion him into the backfield from the slot sometimes but oddly enough we never leave him in the slot much less throw the ball to him from the slot.

Basically we're leaning more on our weakest sill position group (WR) and relying less on our strongest- the running backs even though we finished third in the SEC in rushing and are almost last in passing.

[timotheus]

Gosh quit reminding me about Joe******

[Political Hack]

Ravens have better athletes on offense than the defenses they're facing. But yeah, the system is creative too. Very difficult to stop. Looked like SF ran some similar misdirection type stuff today in the run game. Saints defense was out of position all day. Ravens have done it great all year and with LJ you only need a half-a-step.

[HoopsDawg]

Todd, that's my biggest issue as well.

We run 11 personnel out of the shotgun 100% of the time. No one in the NFL does this. The Rams run it the most at 80%. This leads to very little creativity in the run game and relies too much on having elite WR's.

My other big issue is his tempo. We have been 107th and 117th in plays per game under JoeMo. And the other big issues is too many RPO's. We should be running RPO's maybe 20% of the time. I bet we are north of 80%.

[Todd4State]

Todd, that's my biggest issue as well.

We run 11 personnel out of the shotgun 100% of the time. No one in the NFL does this. The Rams run it the most at 80%. This leads to very little creativity in the run game and relies too much on having elite WR's.

My other big issue is his tempo. We have been 107th and 117th in plays per game under JoeMo. And the other big issues is too many RPO's. We should be running RPO's maybe 20% of the time. I bet we are north of 80%.

I agree on all accounts. If you are going to use limited personnel groupings- use tempo. Otherwise you're making it too easy for the opponent. RPO's leave a lot of room where something can go wrong. They're great when they work obviously. But if you have a weakness you can be baited into going to your weakness. I'd even be OK scaling it back to 10%. Everyone in the NFL is running stuff under center but with lots of misdirection and eye candy.

[HoopsDawg]

Todd, that's my biggest issue as well.

We run 11 personnel out of the shotgun 100% of the time. No one in the NFL does this. The Rams run it the most at 80%. This leads to very little creativity in the run game and relies too much on having elite WR's.

My other big issue is his tempo. We have been 107th and 117th in plays per game under JoeMo. And the other big issues is too many RPO's. We should be running RPO's maybe 20% of the time. I bet we are north of 80%.

Rams going under center a lot tonight. Using more 12 personnel as well. Damn, it's not that hard Jovester.

[msstate7]

Ravens have better athletes on offense than the defenses they're facing. But yeah, the system is creative too. Very difficult to stop. Looked like SF ran some similar misdirection type stuff today in the run game. Saints defense was out of position all day. Ravens have done it great all year and with LJ you only need a half-a-step.

Saints adjusted some in 2nd half. Bring down top 3 LBs is a recipe for failure vs any competent offense though

[trojandawg]

Sorry left out my sarcastricks. I hate his system. I think it is terrible given our history, recruiting base, and how we are built.

[Todd4State]

Sorry left out my sarcastricks. I hate his system. I think it is terrible given our history, recruiting base, and how we are built.

It's terrible common sense football wise period. Joe just happens to be the guy that came up with some RPO's that people like but really everything is left to be desired.

Joe is basically this guy who is known for innovating the fly sweeps that we see a lot in the NFL now but other than that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Stitt

[BrunswickDawg]

I think a lot of Joe's problem is his insistence on staying with mostly the same personnel groupings for most formations. Three receivers and a TE might be fine if we were strong at WR but the past two years we've had at least two top notch running backs and typically only use one of them at a time in a formation. Aeris could block well. Kylin can catch the ball pretty well. Gibson is a very underrated back who makes plays and is consistent. All are three of our best players. But yet we insist on receivers who are near the bottom of the SEC in YAC. If we had some two back sets or used Kylin as a WR some- I mean I know we motion him into the backfield from the slot sometimes but oddly enough we never leave him in the slot much less throw the ball to him from the slot.

Basically we're leaning more on our weakest sill position group (WR) and relying less on our strongest- the running backs even though we finished third in the SEC in rushing and are almost last in passing.

Not to mention the way Malik Dear wasted away on the bench pretty much all season. I realize he may have lost a step because of his injuries - but the couple of games we actually targeted him he looked good.

[TrapGame]

Sorry left out my sarcastricks. I hate his system. I think it is terrible given our history, recruiting base, and how we are built.

Yep, this offense is not a strength for us. And the "We need to recruit players to fit Joe's offense." is a recipe for disaster in this area of the country. It's not the players, it's the offense.

[Turfdawg67]

Delete

[timotheus]

And he's here for many years to come because even Joe can win 6 annually and continue the bowl streak. In my opinion, if the BAMA, LSU, Auburn type games continue to be over just after kickoff, he hasn't accomplished anything because a juco coach could change scheme and still win 6 as easy as the schedule is now.

[Todd4State]

Not to mention the way Malik Dear wasted away on the bench pretty much all season. I realize he may have lost a step because of his injuries - but the couple of games we actually targeted him he looked good.

Exactly. Malik could have helped us a lot this year but we kept throwing to Guidry.

[BrunswickDawg]

And he's here for many years to come because even Joe can win 6 annually and continue the bowl streak. In my opinion, if the BAMA, LSU, Auburn type games continue to be over just after kickoff, he hasn't accomplished anything because a juco coach could change scheme and still win 6 as easy as the schedule is now.

Money has separated P5 and G5 tremendously over the past decade. Going into this season, the G5 was 98-487 against P5 over the past 5 years. https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/9buxcv/table_alltime_g5_vs_p5_winloss_records/

With 2 G5 games and an FCS, 3 wins is an automatic. Are we really happy being 3-6 this year? Because that's how we need to look at it.

[DLGDawg]

Money has separated P5 and G5 tremendously over the past decade. Going into this season, the G5 was 98-487 against P5 over the past 5 years. https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/9buxcv/table_alltime_g5_vs_p5_winloss_records/

With 2 G5 games and an FCS, 3 wins is an automatic. Are we really happy being 3-6 this year? Because that's how we need to look at it.

I would feel a little better if we at least looked competent while going 6-6!!

[timotheus]

Money has separated P5 and G5 tremendously over the past decade. Going into this season, the G5 was 98-487 against P5 over the past 5 years. https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/9buxcv/table_alltime_g5_vs_p5_winloss_records/

With 2 G5 games and an FCS, 3 wins is an automatic. Are we really happy being 3-6 this year? Because that's how we need to look at it.

Oh i do agree.