In defense of our administration and cigar boys (long and likely unpopular)

[HeCannotGo]

I've read much criticism of Joe, Cohen, Keenum and our big donors over the past week. Some of this was very justified, while other statements went way over the top. Hopefully everyone has vented their frustration by now and we can start the process of moving forward together.

But I'd like to try to dispel a couple of narratives that have developed since the Egg Bowl win. I've seen numerous statements to the effect that our administration and donors are just fine with mediocre results. Others say our decision makers don't care what happens as long as we beat Ole Miss. Finally, many have claimed that Cohen/Keenum retained Joe simply because they lacked the courage to fire him. I respectfully disagree with these three ideas.

Mark Keenum and John Cohen want to win football games (not just against Ole Miss) just as much or more than any of us on this message board. The Intense Bastard didn't get his nickname by accepting mediocrity. And our big donors are not big donors because they don't have anything better to do with their millions: they passionately want to win and to win big. These donors are successful, driven individuals who demand excellence in all areas of their lives. They could give money to any number of causes, and they aren't about to waste millions of dollars on, or continue to be associated with, an organization that tolerates failure.

The average fan has the luxury of getting emotional. Don't like the play call on 3rd and 3? Fire the coach! Think Joe should have started Schrader or KT all year? Fire him, pay the buyout and hire Hud or Napier or Norvell. It's only $7 million. Surely MSU or our donors can easily write that check. And that may even be true, but it's a lot easier for us message board posters to spend other people's money than it is to actually pull that trigger.

Instead, the decision makers have to set emotions aside and be rational. They have to consider the possibility that firing Joe, paying him $7MM not to coach, and hiring another guy for $3.5MM or so might not produce better results. It might, but it's far from certain. Many on this board have decided that Joe is a complete failure and beyond redemption and that it can't possibly be worse from a coaching perspective. But that's just not true: it could be worse (see, e.g., Croom, Sylvester circa 2004). And even if the new coach is equal or better, he likely wouldn't produce huge dividends in the win column right away. Instead, we'd likely have some of the same growing pains/SEC learning curve we've already endured in Joe's first two years.

And although you likely think otherwise, I think it's reasonable to conclude that Joe has learned a few things in the past two years and that the growing pains associated with the new offense are now behind us. Tutorgate is also over and Joe is recruiting fairly well. With an improved S&C program (and the benefit of the law of averages), the injury situation should be better next year. Like most of you, I don't think Joe has done a good job so far. My guess is that our decision makers agree. However, I also think it's reasonable to conclude (as they evidently did) that a third year of Joe Moorehead will be better than a first year of a new coach plus a $7MM budgetary hit for the buyout.

Finally, as to the lack of courage narrative, it seems to me that the vast majority of our fans wanted Joe fired. Thus, I think it took more courage to keep him than to fire him. Cohen could cite fan discontent and Joe's press conference as reasons and made of lot of Bulldogs happy by cutting ties. As it is, if next year is the disaster that many of you are predicting, Cohen is probably gone along with Joe. But if he'd fired him after the Egg Bowl and the new coach disappoints us by only winning 6 games next year (same number as the underachieving coach won this year), Cohen could cite the need to give the new guy some time in order to save his AD position for at least another year or two.

Let's go win a bowl game, sign a good class and move forward on a somewhat more united front.

[Liverpooldawg]

I've read much criticism of Joe, Cohen, Keenum and our big donors over the past week. Some of this was very justified, while other statements went way over the top. Hopefully everyone has vented their frustration by now and we can start the process of moving forward together.

But I'd like to try to dispel a couple of narratives that have developed since the Egg Bowl win. I've seen numerous statements to the effect that our administration and donors are just fine with mediocre results. Others say our decision makers don't care what happens as long as we beat Ole Miss. Finally, many have claimed that Cohen/Keenum retained Joe simply because they lacked the courage to fire him. I respectfully disagree with these three ideas.

Mark Keenum and John Cohen want to win football games (not just against Ole Miss) just as much or more than any of us on this message board. The Intense Bastard didn't get his nickname by accepting mediocrity. And our big donors are not big donors because they don't have anything better to do with their millions: they passionately want to win and to win big. These donors are successful, driven individuals who demand excellence in all areas of their lives. They could give money to any number of causes, and they aren't about to waste millions of dollars on, or continue to be associated with, an organization that tolerates failure.

The average fan has the luxury of getting emotional. Don't like the play call on 3rd and 3? Fire the coach! Think Joe should have started Schrader or KT all year? Fire him, pay the buyout and hire Hud or Napier or Norvell. It's only $7 million. Surely MSU or our donors can easily write that check. And that may even be true, but it's a lot easier for us message board posters to spend other people's money than it is to actually pull that trigger.

Instead, the decision makers have to set emotions aside and be rational. They have to consider the possibility that firing Joe, paying him $7MM not to coach, and hiring another guy for $3.5MM or so might not produce better results. It might, but it's far from certain. Many on this board have decided that Joe is a complete failure and beyond redemption and that it can't possibly be worse from a coaching perspective. But that's just not true: it could be worse (see, e.g., Croom, Sylvester circa 2004). And even if the new coach is equal or better, he likely wouldn't produce huge dividends in the win column right away. Instead, we'd likely have some of the same growing pains/SEC learning curve we've already endured in Joe's first two years.

And although you likely think otherwise, I think it's reasonable to conclude that Joe has learned a few things in the past two years and that the growing pains associated with the new offense are now behind us. Tutorgate is also over and Joe is recruiting fairly well. With an improved S&C program (and the benefit of the law of averages), the injury situation should be better next year. Like most of you, I don't think Joe has done a good job so far. My guess is that our decision makers agree. However, I also think it's reasonable to conclude (as they evidently did) that a third year of Joe Moorehead will be better than a first year of a new coach plus a $7MM budgetary hit for the buyout.

Finally, as to the lack of courage narrative, it seems to me that the vast majority of our fans wanted Joe fired. Thus, I think it took more courage to keep him than to fire him. Cohen could cite fan discontent and Joe's press conference as reasons and made of lot of Bulldogs happy by cutting ties. As it is, if next year is the disaster that many of you are predicting, Cohen is probably gone along with Joe. But if he'd fired him after the Egg Bowl and the new coach disappoints us by only winning 6 games next year (same number as the underachieving coach won this year), Cohen could cite the need to give the new guy some time in order to save his AD position for at least another year or two.

Let's go win a bowl game, sign a good class and move forward on a somewhat more united front.

Best post on here in a LONG time.

[gravedigger]

I've read much criticism of Joe, Cohen, Keenum and our big donors over the past week. Some of this was very justified, while other statements went way over the top. Hopefully everyone has vented their frustration by now and we can start the process of moving forward together.

But I'd like to try to dispel a couple of narratives that have developed since the Egg Bowl win. I've seen numerous statements to the effect that our administration and donors are just fine with mediocre results. Others say our decision makers don't care what happens as long as we beat Ole Miss. Finally, many have claimed that Cohen/Keenum retained Joe simply because they lacked the courage to fire him. I respectfully disagree with these three ideas.

Mark Keenum and John Cohen want to win football games (not just against Ole Miss) just as much or more than any of us on this message board. The Intense Bastard didn't get his nickname by accepting mediocrity. And our big donors are not big donors because they don't have anything better to do with their millions: they passionately want to win and to win big. These donors are successful, driven individuals who demand excellence in all areas of their lives. They could give money to any number of causes, and they aren't about to waste millions of dollars on, or continue to be associated with, an organization that tolerates failure.

The average fan has the luxury of getting emotional. Don't like the play call on 3rd and 3? Fire the coach! Think Joe should have started Schrader or KT all year? Fire him, pay the buyout and hire Hud or Napier or Norvell. It's only $7 million. Surely MSU or our donors can easily write that check. And that may even be true, but it's a lot easier for us message board posters to spend other people's money than it is to actually pull that trigger.

Instead, the decision makers have to set emotions aside and be rational. They have to consider the possibility that firing Joe, paying him $7MM not to coach, and hiring another guy for $3.5MM or so might not produce better results. It might, but it's far from certain. Many on this board have decided that Joe is a complete failure and beyond redemption and that it can't possibly be worse from a coaching perspective. But that's just not true: it could be worse (see, e.g., Croom, Sylvester circa 2004). And even if the new coach is equal or better, he likely wouldn't produce huge dividends in the win column right away. Instead, we'd likely have some of the same growing pains/SEC learning curve we've already endured in Joe's first two years.

And although you likely think otherwise, I think it's reasonable to conclude that Joe has learned a few things in the past two years and that the growing pains associated with the new offense are now behind us. Tutorgate is also over and Joe is recruiting fairly well. With an improved S&C program (and the benefit of the law of averages), the injury situation should be better next year. Like most of you, I don't think Joe has done a good job so far. My guess is that our decision makers agree. However, I also think it's reasonable to conclude (as they evidently did) that a third year of Joe Moorehead will be better than a first year of a new coach plus a $7MM budgetary hit for the buyout.

Finally, as to the lack of courage narrative, it seems to me that the vast majority of our fans wanted Joe fired. Thus, I think it took more courage to keep him than to fire him. Cohen could cite fan discontent and Joe's press conference as reasons and made of lot of Bulldogs happy by cutting ties. As it is, if next year is the disaster that many of you are predicting, Cohen is probably gone along with Joe. But if he'd fired him after the Egg Bowl and the new coach disappoints us by only winning 6 games next year (same number as the underachieving coach won this year), Cohen could cite the need to give the new guy some time in order to save his AD position for at least another year or two.

Let's go win a bowl game, sign a good class and move forward on a somewhat more united front.

THeyCannotLetitGo


Fixed your username for you

[TrapGame]

Sure are a lot of low count posters telling us to "get in line" all of a sudden.

[Charlie_Sheen420]

But are the wheels still in motion?**

[FriarsPoint]

Remember all of this when the product you see on the field in a month is the same product you’ve seen for the last two years. Remember all of this when next season looks exactly like this one.

[ShotgunDawg]

- You're right. The new coach might not have gotten better results, but if you're sold that Joe isn't capable of better results, then what's the risk?

- Most all good/successful coaches make a big jump in year 2. Saban, Freeze, Smart, Oregeron, Mullen, etc. All year 2. Now, maybe Tutor gate effected this, but the offense was garbage.

[Churchill]

So you like kicking sand and pounding rocks or whatever the hell he said...I don't. Our administration has botched this thing about as badly as it could from hiring this bafoon til today. Nice try Ms. Croomhead.

[BhamDawg205]

Sure are a lot of low count posters telling us to "get in line" all of a sudden.

The good shepherds looking for more sheep. I hope they told him to go get an OC, S&C, and ST coach. At least then the that pill would be easier to swallow.

[Doggie_Style]

I've read much criticism of Joe, Cohen, Keenum and our big donors over the past week. Some of this was very justified, while other statements went way over the top. Hopefully everyone has vented their frustration by now and we can start the process of moving forward together.

But I'd like to try to dispel a couple of narratives that have developed since the Egg Bowl win. I've seen numerous statements to the effect that our administration and donors are just fine with mediocre results. Others say our decision makers don't care what happens as long as we beat Ole Miss. Finally, many have claimed that Cohen/Keenum retained Joe simply because they lacked the courage to fire him. I respectfully disagree with these three ideas.

Mark Keenum and John Cohen want to win football games (not just against Ole Miss) just as much or more than any of us on this message board. The Intense Bastard didn't get his nickname by accepting mediocrity. And our big donors are not big donors because they don't have anything better to do with their millions: they passionately want to win and to win big. These donors are successful, driven individuals who demand excellence in all areas of their lives. They could give money to any number of causes, and they aren't about to waste millions of dollars on, or continue to be associated with, an organization that tolerates failure.

The average fan has the luxury of getting emotional. Don't like the play call on 3rd and 3? Fire the coach! Think Joe should have started Schrader or KT all year? Fire him, pay the buyout and hire Hud or Napier or Norvell. It's only $7 million. Surely MSU or our donors can easily write that check. And that may even be true, but it's a lot easier for us message board posters to spend other people's money than it is to actually pull that trigger.

Instead, the decision makers have to set emotions aside and be rational. They have to consider the possibility that firing Joe, paying him $7MM not to coach, and hiring another guy for $3.5MM or so might not produce better results. It might, but it's far from certain. Many on this board have decided that Joe is a complete failure and beyond redemption and that it can't possibly be worse from a coaching perspective. But that's just not true: it could be worse (see, e.g., Croom, Sylvester circa 2004). And even if the new coach is equal or better, he likely wouldn't produce huge dividends in the win column right away. Instead, we'd likely have some of the same growing pains/SEC learning curve we've already endured in Joe's first two years.


Let's go win a bowl game, sign a good class and move forward on a somewhat more united front.

Too Long Didn't Read.....Fire Joe!

[bulldawg28]

Too Long Didn't Read.....Fire Joe!

Lol

[BhamDawg205]

Too Long Didn't Read.....Fire Joe!

Needed that... Lmao

[DeputyDawg94]

Fortunately we live in America and you have the right to be wrong. This recruiting narrative that keeps getting put out is fake. Joe is at 21, Mullen average 27. If he and Saban swap classes at the end of the year joe still hasn’t proven he can coach them. I didn’t like Mullen as a person. I don’t have to like joe as a person to support the team and go to games. I do have to have the expectation of a quality product being put on the field before I waste my money and time going to the games. As of now he has only proven that he can dismantle a team as opposed to building one.

[BhamDawg205]

Fortunately we live in America and you have the right to be wrong. This recruiting narrative that keeps getting put out is fake. Joe is at 21, Mullen average 27. If he and Saban swap classes at the end of the year joe still hasn’t proven he can coach them. I didn’t like Mullen as a person. I don’t have to like joe as a person to support the team and go to games. I do have to have the expectation of a quality product being put on the field before I waste my money and time going to the games. As of now he has only proven that he can dismantle a team as opposed to building one.

Plus... What till he get his QB. Now we the narrative is he needs Bama and LSU quality WRs. So how long till that happens? As matter of fact we can count those kind WRs that have passed through MSU on one hand. A coach adjust scheme to players.

[R2Dawg]

I've read much criticism of Joe, Cohen, Keenum and our big donors over the past week. Some of this was very justified, while other statements went way over the top. Hopefully everyone has vented their frustration by now and we can start the process of moving forward together.

But I'd like to try to dispel a couple of narratives that have developed since the Egg Bowl win. I've seen numerous statements to the effect that our administration and donors are just fine with mediocre results. Others say our decision makers don't care what happens as long as we beat Ole Miss. Finally, many have claimed that Cohen/Keenum retained Joe simply because they lacked the courage to fire him. I respectfully disagree with these three ideas.

Mark Keenum and John Cohen want to win football games (not just against Ole Miss) just as much or more than any of us on this message board. The Intense Bastard didn't get his nickname by accepting mediocrity. And our big donors are not big donors because they don't have anything better to do with their millions: they passionately want to win and to win big. These donors are successful, driven individuals who demand excellence in all areas of their lives. They could give money to any number of causes, and they aren't about to waste millions of dollars on, or continue to be associated with, an organization that tolerates failure.

The average fan has the luxury of getting emotional. Don't like the play call on 3rd and 3? Fire the coach! Think Joe should have started Schrader or KT all year? Fire him, pay the buyout and hire Hud or Napier or Norvell. It's only $7 million. Surely MSU or our donors can easily write that check. And that may even be true, but it's a lot easier for us message board posters to spend other people's money than it is to actually pull that trigger.

Instead, the decision makers have to set emotions aside and be rational. They have to consider the possibility that firing Joe, paying him $7MM not to coach, and hiring another guy for $3.5MM or so might not produce better results. It might, but it's far from certain. Many on this board have decided that Joe is a complete failure and beyond redemption and that it can't possibly be worse from a coaching perspective. But that's just not true: it could be worse (see, e.g., Croom, Sylvester circa 2004). And even if the new coach is equal or better, he likely wouldn't produce huge dividends in the win column right away. Instead, we'd likely have some of the same growing pains/SEC learning curve we've already endured in Joe's first two years.

And although you likely think otherwise, I think it's reasonable to conclude that Joe has learned a few things in the past two years and that the growing pains associated with the new offense are now behind us. Tutorgate is also over and Joe is recruiting fairly well. With an improved S&C program (and the benefit of the law of averages), the injury situation should be better next year. Like most of you, I don't think Joe has done a good job so far. My guess is that our decision makers agree. However, I also think it's reasonable to conclude (as they evidently did) that a third year of Joe Moorehead will be better than a first year of a new coach plus a $7MM budgetary hit for the buyout.

Finally, as to the lack of courage narrative, it seems to me that the vast majority of our fans wanted Joe fired. Thus, I think it took more courage to keep him than to fire him. Cohen could cite fan discontent and Joe's press conference as reasons and made of lot of Bulldogs happy by cutting ties. As it is, if next year is the disaster that many of you are predicting, Cohen is probably gone along with Joe. But if he'd fired him after the Egg Bowl and the new coach disappoints us by only winning 6 games next year (same number as the underachieving coach won this year), Cohen could cite the need to give the new guy some time in order to save his AD position for at least another year or two.

Let's go win a bowl game, sign a good class and move forward on a somewhat more united front.

Nice post and thanks for the attempt to mend fans. However, here is where you missed the whole issue with everyone. From what I've seen hardly anyone on here wants Joe gone over a bad play call or QB decision, a single penalty, single game, etc.

It is his whole body of work for two years that is obvious he is lost. I'll not repeat all of the issues as it has been beat to death. If Joe has learned anything he hasn't showed it yet. Every fan that wanted him gone has given him chance after chance because we all want him to succeed, not because we just love Joe but because that is best for MSU. I don't know of one MSU fan who doesn't want that. Joe has put himself above the program since day one.

Was it courage or something else to not do something? If he had any courage he would have Joe (as the leader he is supposed to be) unify the fan base not split it or really kick rocks at 80% of it.

[smootness]

Yada yada yada...Joe's not a good coach, and every year we don't let him go is a deeper hole we're digging.

I said as much after the Florida game last year, and it's been obvious since.

[sandjunky]

Cliffs? That shits way too long on a phone

[TimberBeast]

I've read much criticism of Joe, Cohen, Keenum and our big donors over the past week. Some of this was very justified, while other statements went way over the top. Hopefully everyone has vented their frustration by now and we can start the process of moving forward together.

But I'd like to try to dispel a couple of narratives that have developed since the Egg Bowl win. I've seen numerous statements to the effect that our administration and donors are just fine with mediocre results. Others say our decision makers don't care what happens as long as we beat Ole Miss. Finally, many have claimed that Cohen/Keenum retained Joe simply because they lacked the courage to fire him. I respectfully disagree with these three ideas.

Mark Keenum and John Cohen want to win football games (not just against Ole Miss) just as much or more than any of us on this message board. The Intense Bastard didn't get his nickname by accepting mediocrity. And our big donors are not big donors because they don't have anything better to do with their millions: they passionately want to win and to win big. These donors are successful, driven individuals who demand excellence in all areas of their lives. They could give money to any number of causes, and they aren't about to waste millions of dollars on, or continue to be associated with, an organization that tolerates failure.

The average fan has the luxury of getting emotional. Don't like the play call on 3rd and 3? Fire the coach! Think Joe should have started Schrader or KT all year? Fire him, pay the buyout and hire Hud or Napier or Norvell. It's only $7 million. Surely MSU or our donors can easily write that check. And that may even be true, but it's a lot easier for us message board posters to spend other people's money than it is to actually pull that trigger.

Instead, the decision makers have to set emotions aside and be rational. They have to consider the possibility that firing Joe, paying him $7MM not to coach, and hiring another guy for $3.5MM or so might not produce better results. It might, but it's far from certain. Many on this board have decided that Joe is a complete failure and beyond redemption and that it can't possibly be worse from a coaching perspective. But that's just not true: it could be worse (see, e.g., Croom, Sylvester circa 2004). And even if the new coach is equal or better, he likely wouldn't produce huge dividends in the win column right away. Instead, we'd likely have some of the same growing pains/SEC learning curve we've already endured in Joe's first two years.

And although you likely think otherwise, I think it's reasonable to conclude that Joe has learned a few things in the past two years and that the growing pains associated with the new offense are now behind us. Tutorgate is also over and Joe is recruiting fairly well. With an improved S&C program (and the benefit of the law of averages), the injury situation should be better next year. Like most of you, I don't think Joe has done a good job so far. My guess is that our decision makers agree. However, I also think it's reasonable to conclude (as they evidently did) that a third year of Joe Moorehead will be better than a first year of a new coach plus a $7MM budgetary hit for the buyout.

Finally, as to the lack of courage narrative, it seems to me that the vast majority of our fans wanted Joe fired. Thus, I think it took more courage to keep him than to fire him. Cohen could cite fan discontent and Joe's press conference as reasons and made of lot of Bulldogs happy by cutting ties. As it is, if next year is the disaster that many of you are predicting, Cohen is probably gone along with Joe. But if he'd fired him after the Egg Bowl and the new coach disappoints us by only winning 6 games next year (same number as the underachieving coach won this year), Cohen could cite the need to give the new guy some time in order to save his AD position for at least another year or two.

Let's go win a bowl game, sign a good class and move forward on a somewhat more united front.

This might be the biggest waste of time and space I?ve ever seen on this board.

[TStationDawg]

So it took more courage to keep a bad coach, then fire him. Got it.

[TStationDawg]

meant to add- if you disagree, pound sand or kick rocks- your preference. I will not support a Joe led program any longer. The day he leaves, the better our program will become.

[mparkerfd20]

This post is even more stupid than Liverpool's or any or the 1000s Shotgun has written this week. That's quite the accomplishment.

[Todd4State]

I thought the post was well thought out and had some good points.

Doesn’t mean that Joe is right or they are making the right decision.

[Tbonewannabe]

I've read much criticism of Joe, Cohen, Keenum and our big donors over the past week. Some of this was very justified, while other statements went way over the top. Hopefully everyone has vented their frustration by now and we can start the process of moving forward together.

But I'd like to try to dispel a couple of narratives that have developed since the Egg Bowl win. I've seen numerous statements to the effect that our administration and donors are just fine with mediocre results. Others say our decision makers don't care what happens as long as we beat Ole Miss. Finally, many have claimed that Cohen/Keenum retained Joe simply because they lacked the courage to fire him. I respectfully disagree with these three ideas.

Mark Keenum and John Cohen want to win football games (not just against Ole Miss) just as much or more than any of us on this message board. The Intense Bastard didn't get his nickname by accepting mediocrity. And our big donors are not big donors because they don't have anything better to do with their millions: they passionately want to win and to win big. These donors are successful, driven individuals who demand excellence in all areas of their lives. They could give money to any number of causes, and they aren't about to waste millions of dollars on, or continue to be associated with, an organization that tolerates failure.

The average fan has the luxury of getting emotional. Don't like the play call on 3rd and 3? Fire the coach! Think Joe should have started Schrader or KT all year? Fire him, pay the buyout and hire Hud or Napier or Norvell. It's only $7 million. Surely MSU or our donors can easily write that check. And that may even be true, but it's a lot easier for us message board posters to spend other people's money than it is to actually pull that trigger.

Instead, the decision makers have to set emotions aside and be rational. They have to consider the possibility that firing Joe, paying him $7MM not to coach, and hiring another guy for $3.5MM or so might not produce better results. It might, but it's far from certain. Many on this board have decided that Joe is a complete failure and beyond redemption and that it can't possibly be worse from a coaching perspective. But that's just not true: it could be worse (see, e.g., Croom, Sylvester circa 2004). And even if the new coach is equal or better, he likely wouldn't produce huge dividends in the win column right away. Instead, we'd likely have some of the same growing pains/SEC learning curve we've already endured in Joe's first two years.

And although you likely think otherwise, I think it's reasonable to conclude that Joe has learned a few things in the past two years and that the growing pains associated with the new offense are now behind us. Tutorgate is also over and Joe is recruiting fairly well. With an improved S&C program (and the benefit of the law of averages), the injury situation should be better next year. Like most of you, I don't think Joe has done a good job so far. My guess is that our decision makers agree. However, I also think it's reasonable to conclude (as they evidently did) that a third year of Joe Moorehead will be better than a first year of a new coach plus a $7MM budgetary hit for the buyout.

Finally, as to the lack of courage narrative, it seems to me that the vast majority of our fans wanted Joe fired. Thus, I think it took more courage to keep him than to fire him. Cohen could cite fan discontent and Joe's press conference as reasons and made of lot of Bulldogs happy by cutting ties. As it is, if next year is the disaster that many of you are predicting, Cohen is probably gone along with Joe. But if he'd fired him after the Egg Bowl and the new coach disappoints us by only winning 6 games next year (same number as the underachieving coach won this year), Cohen could cite the need to give the new guy some time in order to save his AD position for at least another year or two.

Let's go win a bowl game, sign a good class and move forward on a somewhat more united front.

The problem is that you can't just say, he has learned some things over the past two years. That is the same thinking that gave us 5 years of Croom. His one game plan that was actually tailored to fit his team and the opponent, he had nothing to do with (Auburn 2018). Sure he takes credit for it, he is the head coach. But if he really had anything to do with it then we would have seen it happen more often. Instead we have the same dumb plays ran over and over against teams like Bama where we barely get to the 50 yard line.

I don't see how anyone that saw what he did at UT and Abilene Christian in the first quarter, thinks this guy is going to magically figure it out. He has shown nothing to make you think that. Also if Cohen had to literally sit down and point out 40 things wrong with his program then he definitely isn't the guy. Hell, it would have probably been easier to point out the 4 things he does right.

[Fred Garvin]

Good post

[TrapGame]

The problem is that you can't just say, he has learned some things over the past two years. That is the same thinking that gave us 5 years of Croom. His one game plan that was actually tailored to fit his team and the opponent, he had nothing to do with (Auburn 2018). Sure he takes credit for it, he is the head coach. But if he really had anything to do with it then we would have seen it happen more often. Instead we have the same dumb plays ran over and over against teams like Bama where we barely get to the 50 yard line.

I don't see how anyone that saw what he did at UT and Abilene Christian in the first quarter, thinks this guy is going to magically figure it out. He has shown nothing to make you think that. Also if Cohen had to literally sit down and point out 40 things wrong with his program then he definitely isn't the guy. Hell, it would have probably been easier to point out the 4 things he does right.

I guarantee you, if my boss had to sit me down and explain 40 things about how I do my job needed to change it would be a firing. That's ridiculous. If it is really 40 changes to the program that must be done then Bucky's post is spot on and gospel truth.

[Jack Lambert]

I guarantee you, if my boss had to sit me down and explain 40 things about how I do my job needed to change it would be a firing. That's ridiculous. If it is really 40 changes to the program that must be done then Bucky's post is spot on and gospel truth.

This isn't like most jobs. If you get fired will they pay you 9 million dollars?

[Dawgbite]

Kicking sand is actually really good for your feet. It scruffs off the dead skin preventing cracking of the dry calluses, its like a free pedicure minus the toes. You also get to hear the waves crashing against the shore which is very relaxing!

[TrapGame]

This isn't like most jobs. If you get fired will they pay you 9 million dollars?

If your boss comes with you with 40 things you need to change you're not doing your job. That's the point.

[Jack Lambert]

If your boss comes with you with 40 things you need to change you're not doing your job. That's the point.

I am not disagreeing I am just saying coaching isn't like any other jobs.

[Liverpooldawg]

If your boss comes with you with 40 things you need to change you're not doing your job. That's the point.

The point is he is expensive to fire.

[TrapGame]

The point is he is expensive to fire.

Oh, here we go with the "We didn't have the money." narrative.

I'm not buying that.

[Liverpooldawg]

Oh, here we go with the "We didn't have the money." narrative.

I'm not buying that.

I was told 5 weeks ago that we wouldn't buy him out. Y'all didn't want to hear it then and you don't want to hear it now.

[TStationDawg]

The point is he is expensive to fire.

I would argue- he's more expensive to keep.

[Doggie_Style]

I was told 5 weeks ago that we wouldn't buy him out. Y'all didn't want to hear it then and you don't want to hear it now.

I actually believe this was the main reason he is still here.

[TrapGame]

I was told 5 weeks ago that we wouldn't buy him out. Y'all didn't want to hear it then and you don't want to hear it now.

Not buying him out doesn't mean the money isn't there.

[Liverpooldawg]

Not buying him out doesn't mean the money isn't there.

Actually it does. It means it wasn't worth it to those that write the checks. Those folks writing those kind of checks ain't letting emotion spend their money for them.

[TrapGame]

Actually it does. It means it wasn't worth it to those that write the checks. Those folks writing those kind of checks ain't letting emotion spend their money for them.

LOL!! Emotion is the reason they aren't writing the check to begin with. The money was there. People got cold feet.

[Liverpooldawg]

LOL!! Emotion is the reason they aren't writing the check to begin with. The money was there. People got cold feet.

Nope, other way around, completely the other way around. I was told that too.

[TrapGame]

Nope, other way around, completely the other way around. I was told that too.

Okay. I'm not going to argue. It won't change anything.

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

Okay. I'm not going to argue. It won't change anything.

Smart move. Never argue with idiots.

[basedog]

Not buying him out doesn't mean the money isn't there.

Money was short of the so call $4.4 so call buyout, they raised around $3.6 and that is when Joe said it would take a little over $6 million or at least what I was told. So.

[Gatordog]

When does the guy who negotiated a 7 million dollar buy out on an unproven coach get fired? My gosh dam toes hurt from kicking rocks and the skin is off my knuckles from pounding sand. There is zero consistency with this coach. One week we are world beaters the next week crape. This is what pisses everyone off. It is how we compete week in and out and that is what the coach should have his finger on and what is worse is the AD and others don't see it. I am tired of being guilted for not liking how this coach coaches. I am still Maroon and White. I give money I go to events I support by purchasing merchandise. But I don't have to get in line and kiss ass and or have my maroon and white card taken from me because this coach hasn't shown or proven to me that I should support him.

[99jc]

I've read much criticism of Joe, Cohen, Keenum and our big donors over the past week. Some of this was very justified, while other statements went way over the top. Hopefully everyone has vented their frustration by now and we can start the process of moving forward together.

But I'd like to try to dispel a couple of narratives that have developed since the Egg Bowl win. I've seen numerous statements to the effect that our administration and donors are just fine with mediocre results. Others say our decision makers don't care what happens as long as we beat Ole Miss. Finally, many have claimed that Cohen/Keenum retained Joe simply because they lacked the courage to fire him. I respectfully disagree with these three ideas.

Mark Keenum and John Cohen want to win football games (not just against Ole Miss) just as much or more than any of us on this message board. The Intense Bastard didn't get his nickname by accepting mediocrity. And our big donors are not big donors because they don't have anything better to do with their millions: they passionately want to win and to win big. These donors are successful, driven individuals who demand excellence in all areas of their lives. They could give money to any number of causes, and they aren't about to waste millions of dollars on, or continue to be associated with, an organization that tolerates failure.

The average fan has the luxury of getting emotional. Don't like the play call on 3rd and 3? Fire the coach! Think Joe should have started Schrader or KT all year? Fire him, pay the buyout and hire Hud or Napier or Norvell. It's only $7 million. Surely MSU or our donors can easily write that check. And that may even be true, but it's a lot easier for us message board posters to spend other people's money than it is to actually pull that trigger.

Instead, the decision makers have to set emotions aside and be rational. They have to consider the possibility that firing Joe, paying him $7MM not to coach, and hiring another guy for $3.5MM or so might not produce better results. It might, but it's far from certain. Many on this board have decided that Joe is a complete failure and beyond redemption and that it can't possibly be worse from a coaching perspective. But that's just not true: it could be worse (see, e.g., Croom, Sylvester circa 2004). And even if the new coach is equal or better, he likely wouldn't produce huge dividends in the win column right away. Instead, we'd likely have some of the same growing pains/SEC learning curve we've already endured in Joe's first two years.

And although you likely think otherwise, I think it's reasonable to conclude that Joe has learned a few things in the past two years and that the growing pains associated with the new offense are now behind us. Tutorgate is also over and Joe is recruiting fairly well. With an improved S&C program (and the benefit of the law of averages), the injury situation should be better next year. Like most of you, I don't think Joe has done a good job so far. My guess is that our decision makers agree. However, I also think it's reasonable to conclude (as they evidently did) that a third year of Joe Moorehead will be better than a first year of a new coach plus a $7MM budgetary hit for the buyout.

Finally, as to the lack of courage narrative, it seems to me that the vast majority of our fans wanted Joe fired. Thus, I think it took more courage to keep him than to fire him. Cohen could cite fan discontent and Joe's press conference as reasons and made of lot of Bulldogs happy by cutting ties. As it is, if next year is the disaster that many of you are predicting, Cohen is probably gone along with Joe. But if he'd fired him after the Egg Bowl and the new coach disappoints us by only winning 6 games next year (same number as the underachieving coach won this year), Cohen could cite the need to give the new guy some time in order to save his AD position for at least another year or two.

Let's go win a bowl game, sign a good class and move forward on a somewhat more united front.


When you get through with your reach around on SloMo?.give him a Slow Blow! where do these sunshine pumping morons come from?

[somebodyshotmypaw]

Oh, here we go with the "We didn't have the money." narrative.

I'm not buying that.

I wouldn't buy it either. So maybe you should just write the check. If you'll tell me where you live, I'll even pick up the check and hand deliver it to Cohen for you. Moorhead will be gone an hour after I deliver it.

[TrapGame]

I wouldn't buy it either. So maybe you should just write the check. If you'll tell me where you live, I'll even pick up the check and hand deliver it to Cohen for you. Moorhead will be gone an hour after I deliver it.

Funny. I tell you what why don't we just enjoy the mediocrity next season. Oh, and some of those people that can write big checks will stop doing so as long as you know who is still here. And speaking of checks. I wonder how many people will lose jobs in Starkville when we're down 20,000+ people for home games. But hey, we won the Egg and that's all that matters.

[basedog]

Funny. I tell you what why don't we just enjoy the mediocrity next season. Oh, and some of those people that can write big checks will stop doing so as long as you know who is still here. And speaking of checks. I wonder how many people will lose jobs in Starkville when we're down 20,000+ people for home games. But hey, we won the Egg and that's all that matters.

Ok, I bet there want be less than 20K for any game next year. I dint have the Vcash u do but match me? I need it, LOL

I think you under estimate Msu fans, I've seen way more games than most over decades and regardless of teams or sports we show up. So stop all this nonsense bout fans please. It ain't never fans fault.

[TrapGame]

Ok, I bet there want be less than 20K for any game next year. I dint have the Vcash u do but match me? I need it, LOL

I think you under estimate Msu fans, I've seen way more games than most over decades and regardless of teams or sports we show up. So stop all this nonsense bout fans please. It ain't never fans fault.

Local businesses took a hit this season already. We'll have more than 25,000 for every home game for sure but the sell outs are ancient history now. And if Joe can't get it turned around back to the glory days those late season home games will be paltry.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I love that its literally about 4 guys that are going to die on this hill

[Liverpooldawg]

Smart move. Never argue with idiots.

I need to learn that myself. I spend way too much time here doing it.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I need to learn that myself. I spend way too much time here doing it.

We all know you are way smarter and vastly superior to us in every way

[Liverpooldawg]

We all know you are way smarter and vastly superior to us in every way

Nope, just not as emotional.

[Dawgcap]

One thing I’ve always told my kids is nothing is black and white. No one is always right nor always wrong. The answer is in the gray. We as a fan base need to look for the gray.

[Dawgcap]

Unless they are Mississippi fans!! Haha Natty Light time! Hail State!

[TaleofTwoDogs]

Actually it does. It means it wasn't worth it to those that write the checks. Those folks writing those kind of checks ain't letting emotion spend their money for them.

So, being a cigar boy is all about the numbers, just business. Nothing to do with emotion, ego, control or any other base vanity.

[basedog]

Local businesses took a hit this season already. We'll have more than 25,000 for every home game for sure but the sell outs are ancient history now. And if Joe can't get it turned around back to the glory days those late season home games will be paltry.

I'm not defending Joe. TV is hurting attendance all over the country, especially 11 am games. But reading so much negative which most may have merit, you would think we didn't win a game! I believe even in next year we will have a chance to go to another bowl. Six wins may be all Joe can do, I don't think he is the answer but time will tell and I will buy season tickets again. Gulp

[Homedawg]

Money was short of the so call $4.4 so call buyout, they raised around $3.6 and that is when Joe said it would take a little over $6 million or at least what I was told. So.

This is not accurate. The buyout was 7+.... He was fired if we lost. Money was t the problem. We, somebody, somebodies, chose another year. Move on.

[HoopsDawg]

The point is he is expensive to fire.

Whose fault is that? That's why you don't give him pointless extensions. He should be down to 2 years on his contract right now.

[basedog]

Whose fault is that? That's why you don't give him pointless extensions. He should be down to 2 years on his contract right now.

I'd be happy for that and I bet most would.

[Homedawg]

Whose fault is that? That's why you don't give him pointless extensions. He should be down to 2 years on his contract right now.

No he should be at 4 years. Need that for recruiting. You always "extend" we should have just lowered the buyout when we extended. One thing that's missing in this deal is this, Mullen had a buyout from us but basically didn't owe us crap when he left. Thanks to the guy that most call the great one greg bryne. It's hard to add one after the fact once a guy has been successful. So Jc got a deal form jomo that owed us if he ever left for another job. So that part he did well. The other is the part most are complaining about.... and before you say that's stupid, we have done that w other coaches as well under Cohen, ..... you can figure out who on your own
eTA this is NOT a defense of the decision made. I've been clear on my stance. Just clearing up so facts involved.

[HoopsDawg]

No he should be at 4 years. Need that for recruiting. You always "extend" we should have just lowered the buyout when we extended. One thing that's missing in this deal is this, Mullen had a buyout from us but basically didn't owe us crap when he left. Thanks to the guy that most call the great one greg bryne. It's hard to add one after the fact once a guy has been successful. So Jc got a deal form jomo that owed us if he ever left for another job. So that part he did well. The other is the part most are complaining about.... and before you say that's stupid, we have done that w other coaches as well under Cohen, ..... you can figure out who on your own

BS on recruiting. Just complete BS. It's a myth. Recruits don't give a shit about contracts.

Agree the buyout should have been lowered.

[Homedawg]

BS on recruiting. Just complete BS. It's a myth. Recruits don't give a shit about contracts.

Agree the buyout should have been lowered.

When other coaches are saying the guy is about to get fired, we can prove it,and using it against you, they didn't renew the guy, hell yeah it matters. Again, an extension, doesn't have to be a full extension. But he needs to have "on paper" a 4 year deal. It might be semantics. But it's there

[Dawgcap]

His point is the extension means absolute shit. Looks good to recruits( vote of confidence) but no extra money or obligation to us. Looks good where it needs too

[calidawg]

Outstanding! Many will not see the reality here.

[Dawgcap]

Simple marketing. Sell the future. If he is staying show a backing for belief in the future. He wins next year add shit if not, see ya. Players want to know coach is gonna be there. They believe in him they come to play. If we suck? Coach gone? If he is a great coach they both benefit. If he doesn’t produce the players who complain probably leave if they liked the culture of the staff.
If a player believes in a staff they will step up. If they in for a easy ride they will leave

[RougeDawg]

I've read much criticism of Joe, Cohen, Keenum and our big donors over the past week. Some of this was very justified, while other statements went way over the top. Hopefully everyone has vented their frustration by now and we can start the process of moving forward together.

But I'd like to try to dispel a couple of narratives that have developed since the Egg Bowl win. I've seen numerous statements to the effect that our administration and donors are just fine with mediocre results. Others say our decision makers don't care what happens as long as we beat Ole Miss. Finally, many have claimed that Cohen/Keenum retained Joe simply because they lacked the courage to fire him. I respectfully disagree with these three ideas.

Mark Keenum and John Cohen want to win football games (not just against Ole Miss) just as much or more than any of us on this message board. The Intense Bastard didn't get his nickname by accepting mediocrity. And our big donors are not big donors because they don't have anything better to do with their millions: they passionately want to win and to win big. These donors are successful, driven individuals who demand excellence in all areas of their lives. They could give money to any number of causes, and they aren't about to waste millions of dollars on, or continue to be associated with, an organization that tolerates failure.

The average fan has the luxury of getting emotional. Don't like the play call on 3rd and 3? Fire the coach! Think Joe should have started Schrader or KT all year? Fire him, pay the buyout and hire Hud or Napier or Norvell. It's only $7 million. Surely MSU or our donors can easily write that check. And that may even be true, but it's a lot easier for us message board posters to spend other people's money than it is to actually pull that trigger.

Instead, the decision makers have to set emotions aside and be rational. They have to consider the possibility that firing Joe, paying him $7MM not to coach, and hiring another guy for $3.5MM or so might not produce better results. It might, but it's far from certain. Many on this board have decided that Joe is a complete failure and beyond redemption and that it can't possibly be worse from a coaching perspective. But that's just not true: it could be worse (see, e.g., Croom, Sylvester circa 2004). And even if the new coach is equal or better, he likely wouldn't produce huge dividends in the win column right away. Instead, we'd likely have some of the same growing pains/SEC learning curve we've already endured in Joe's first two years.

And although you likely think otherwise, I think it's reasonable to conclude that Joe has learned a few things in the past two years and that the growing pains associated with the new offense are now behind us. Tutorgate is also over and Joe is recruiting fairly well. With an improved S&C program (and the benefit of the law of averages), the injury situation should be better next year. Like most of you, I don't think Joe has done a good job so far. My guess is that our decision makers agree. However, I also think it's reasonable to conclude (as they evidently did) that a third year of Joe Moorehead will be better than a first year of a new coach plus a $7MM budgetary hit for the buyout.

Finally, as to the lack of courage narrative, it seems to me that the vast majority of our fans wanted Joe fired. Thus, I think it took more courage to keep him than to fire him. Cohen could cite fan discontent and Joe's press conference as reasons and made of lot of Bulldogs happy by cutting ties. As it is, if next year is the disaster that many of you are predicting, Cohen is probably gone along with Joe. But if he'd fired him after the Egg Bowl and the new coach disappoints us by only winning 6 games next year (same number as the underachieving coach won this year), Cohen could cite the need to give the new guy some time in order to save his AD position for at least another year or two.

Let's go win a bowl game, sign a good class and move forward on a somewhat more united front.

Read my thread and think again. IB is not what you think he is.

[CadaverDawg]

I've read much criticism of Joe, Cohen, Keenum and our big donors over the past week. Some of this was very justified, while other statements went way over the top. Hopefully everyone has vented their frustration by now and we can start the process of moving forward together.

But I'd like to try to dispel a couple of narratives that have developed since the Egg Bowl win. I've seen numerous statements to the effect that our administration and donors are just fine with mediocre results. Others say our decision makers don't care what happens as long as we beat Ole Miss. Finally, many have claimed that Cohen/Keenum retained Joe simply because they lacked the courage to fire him. I respectfully disagree with these three ideas.

Mark Keenum and John Cohen want to win football games (not just against Ole Miss) just as much or more than any of us on this message board. The Intense Bastard didn't get his nickname by accepting mediocrity. And our big donors are not big donors because they don't have anything better to do with their millions: they passionately want to win and to win big. These donors are successful, driven individuals who demand excellence in all areas of their lives. They could give money to any number of causes, and they aren't about to waste millions of dollars on, or continue to be associated with, an organization that tolerates failure.

The average fan has the luxury of getting emotional. Don't like the play call on 3rd and 3? Fire the coach! Think Joe should have started Schrader or KT all year? Fire him, pay the buyout and hire Hud or Napier or Norvell. It's only $7 million. Surely MSU or our donors can easily write that check. And that may even be true, but it's a lot easier for us message board posters to spend other people's money than it is to actually pull that trigger.

Instead, the decision makers have to set emotions aside and be rational. They have to consider the possibility that firing Joe, paying him $7MM not to coach, and hiring another guy for $3.5MM or so might not produce better results. It might, but it's far from certain. Many on this board have decided that Joe is a complete failure and beyond redemption and that it can't possibly be worse from a coaching perspective. But that's just not true: it could be worse (see, e.g., Croom, Sylvester circa 2004). And even if the new coach is equal or better, he likely wouldn't produce huge dividends in the win column right away. Instead, we'd likely have some of the same growing pains/SEC learning curve we've already endured in Joe's first two years.

And although you likely think otherwise, I think it's reasonable to conclude that Joe has learned a few things in the past two years and that the growing pains associated with the new offense are now behind us. Tutorgate is also over and Joe is recruiting fairly well. With an improved S&C program (and the benefit of the law of averages), the injury situation should be better next year. Like most of you, I don't think Joe has done a good job so far. My guess is that our decision makers agree. However, I also think it's reasonable to conclude (as they evidently did) that a third year of Joe Moorehead will be better than a first year of a new coach plus a $7MM budgetary hit for the buyout.

Finally, as to the lack of courage narrative, it seems to me that the vast majority of our fans wanted Joe fired. Thus, I think it took more courage to keep him than to fire him. Cohen could cite fan discontent and Joe's press conference as reasons and made of lot of Bulldogs happy by cutting ties. As it is, if next year is the disaster that many of you are predicting, Cohen is probably gone along with Joe. But if he'd fired him after the Egg Bowl and the new coach disappoints us by only winning 6 games next year (same number as the underachieving coach won this year), Cohen could cite the need to give the new guy some time in order to save his AD position for at least another year or two.

Let's go win a bowl game, sign a good class and move forward on a somewhat more united front.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/p5h3GP4t5JjAQ/source.gif

[HoopsDawg]

When other coaches are saying the guy is about to get fired, we can prove it,and using it against you, they didn't renew the guy, hell yeah it matters. Again, an extension, doesn't have to be a full extension. But he needs to have "on paper" a 4 year deal. It might be semantics. But it's there

Except in our case with last year's extension, it wasn't just semantics.

[1bigdawg]

No he should be at 4 years. Need that for recruiting. You always "extend" we should have just lowered the buyout when we extended. One thing that's missing in this deal is this, Mullen had a buyout from us but basically didn't owe us crap when he left. Thanks to the guy that most call the great one greg bryne. It's hard to add one after the fact once a guy has been successful. So Jc got a deal form jomo that owed us if he ever left for another job. So that part he did well. The other is the part most are complaining about.... and before you say that's stupid, we have done that w other coaches as well under Cohen, ..... you can figure out who on your own
eTA this is NOT a defense of the decision made. I've been clear on my stance. Just clearing up so facts involved.

First, I agree that you extend the contract, but keep the buyout declining. This happens frequently when coaches are on the hot seat and helps with recruiting as recruits don't know the buyout situation.

On the other hand, I disagree that we could not have put "matching" buyouts into Mullen's contract after the original. It just takes some stones....

[BB30]

meant to add- if you disagree, pound sand or kick rocks- your preference. I will not support a Joe led program any longer. The day he leaves, the better our program will become.

I am sure there are plenty of other college teams that will take a fair weather fan. Bama most certainly has room although they only went 10-2 this year so you may be disappointed with them as well. I'm sure LSU will accept your fanaticism since you aren't going to support the MSU football team any longer. After all that is what stating "I will not support a Joe led program any longer" means. So we shouldn't expect to see you on the message boards next year during football season either, correct?

[timotheus]

Bet u wrong.