Mark Hudspeth's 3 Head Coaching Jobs

[ShotgunDawg]

Just did some research and discovered that this guy must be ELITE at developing a plan, hiring a good staff, and implementing a culture.

Let's look at each of his stops as head coach and look at the year before he got there and his 1st year:

2001 North Alabama - Year before - 3-7. 1st year 4-7 (took him a year in his first head coaching job to figure it out. 2nd year - 13-1.

2011 ULL - Year before - 3-9. 1st year - 9-4

2018 Austin Peay - Year before - 5-6. 1st year - 9-3

So here we have 3 stops and we've seen basically the same outcome. He comes in, cleans it up, and wins.

You can absolutely question his ability sustain things due to what happened at ULL or you can just blame that on the NCAA investigation. That's up to you, but what you can't question is this guy's ability to develop a plan, institute a culture, and hire a good staff.

Now, ask yourself this: what does MSU need? Then ask yourself, if there is any coach in America that has more successful experience in taking over a program, instituting a culture, having a plan, and hiring a good staff?

[DogsofAnarchy]

I know him personally and he is a hell of a football coach. He is so far above what we have now it isn’t funny. He would put Peterson as on field coach which should have been done anyway.

[ShotgunDawg]

Here's my opinion: should've hired this Mf'ker yesterday

[Homedawg]

I know him personally and he is a hell of a football coach. He is so far above what we have now it isn’t funny. He would put Peterson as on field coach which should have been done anyway.

Agree w the part about Brad. Very good coach.

[Thick]

He’s really what we need, plus this would be his dream job. I know everyone thinks we should go after other young coaches, but Hud is experienced HC, understands how to recruit in our area vs other SEC programs and he has contacts in TN, AL, LA, & MS. He runs a power spread too which is tried and proven at MSU. He loves the maroon & white, just some food for thought.

[Jack Lambert]

He could also be the HC and the S&C coach. That could save a coaching spot for someone else.

[ShotgunDawg]

Are we going to wait for him to turn around 5-6 programs before hiring him or is 3 enough?

[smootness]

Then ask yourself, if there is any coach in America that has more successful experience in taking over a program, instituting a culture, having a plan, and hiring a good staff?

Urban Meyer
Nick Saban
Dabo Swinney
Dan Mullen
Brian Kelly
James Franklin
PJ Fleck

[ShotgunDawg]

Urban Meyer
Nick Saban
Dabo Swinney
Dan Mullen
Brian Kelly
James Franklin
PJ Fleck

Exactly

This should be the quickest coaching search in MSU history.

[TrapGame]

His resume is actually better than Moorhead's.

[smootness]

Exactly

This should be the quickest coaching search in MSU history.

There are coaches with more successful experience in those things. That's all I was saying.

[CovertDawg]

Yes, hiring David Saunders was a brilliant choice by Hud.

[Todd4State]

Agree w the part about Brad. Very good coach.

What position group would he coach?

[MetEdDawg]

Here's a question. If he's this amazing at turning programs around, why has he been the HC at UNA, ULL, and Austin Peay?

Why has no one bigger snagged him up after almost 30 years of coaching?

[Todd4State]

Yes, hiring David Saunders was a brilliant choice by Hud.

The good news about that- it will never be our problem.

[ShotgunDawg]

There are coaches with more successful experience in those things. That's all I was saying.

Like who? Name them

[Lord McBuckethead]

If we hire him Friday, I say let him coach the bowl game.

[was21]

Why hasn't he been offered a P5 job?? Asked this question previously and no answer(s)

[dawgday166]

Why hasn't he been offered a P5 job?? Asked this question previously and no answer(s)

If you use this as a criteria you'll always be watching other teams hire a Satterfield or Klieman. Then when they leave Lville or KSU it ain't to come to MSU. You always be one step behind.

[Lumpy Chucklelips]

Here's a question. If he's this amazing at turning programs around, why has he been the HC at UNA, ULL, and Austin Peay?

Why has no one bigger snagged him up after almost 30 years of coaching?


Why hasn't he been offered a P5 job?? Asked this question previously and no answer(s)


These are the same questions we were asking about Kermit Davis. Now I'm not saying Hud would ever be as successful as Kermit has been for a year and a half, which I know is not that long. But it is a great start. More than I can say for our football head coaches debut. But I can say the following with much surety.....Hud will give every ounce of what you've seen Kermit give since he's been given a chance.

[Homedawg]

What position group would he coach?

Wr, rb, te. Something on offensive side of the ball.

[bobtail bob]

Hud would be a turn key coach for our program and could repair what sloppy has broken quicker than anyone else. I?m on board with it

[Cooterpoot]

Hud is the Larry Templeton hire. Cheap and easy. You guys were loving Chiz this weekend.

[Pipedream]

Why hasn't he been offered a P5 job?? Asked this question previously and no answer(s)

He has never even been a P5 coordinator. He's run an offense at the G5 level 8 times. As OC at Navy in 01 they averaged 18 ppg. His average ULL offense was 58th in points and 55th in ypp-smack dab in the middle of FBS. I just think if you're hiring an offensive coach that he'd have better metrics than that. Contrast that with Norvell (whom we may not can get, I'm not sure)-his 8 years leading an offense were 4 as OC at ASU, 4 HC at Memphis where his average was 13th in ppg and 30th in ypp. And he was playing a big step up in competition.

ETA: Might as well throw in Napiers numbers as well. 2 years as OC at Clemson, 1 as OC at ASU, 2 HC at ULL. Averaged Offense 41st in ppg/43rd ypp. And he had a horrendous year in 2010 as Clemsons OC that skews his numbers. I don't know the correct way to filter these numbers, but objectively over the big picture, it's clear Norvell is an offensive juggernaut, Napier is adequate, and Hud is mediocre.

[Cooterpoot]

Don’t bring real shit into this Pipedream. Hud is 17ing Incredible! He’s a legend. Shotgun is getting moist.

[Todd4State]

Hud is the Larry Templeton hire. Cheap and easy. You guys were loving Chiz this weekend.

Technically he was a Byrne hire. And the last coach Byrne hired here worked out pretty well.

Most thought Chizik was a horrible hire. But I’ll say it’s better than who you’ve mentioned.

[Cooterpoot]

Technically he was a Byrne hire. And the last coach Byrne hired here worked out pretty well.

Most thought Chizik was a horrible hire. But I’ll say it’s better than who you’ve mentioned.

Byrne never hires him as a HC. He thought more highly of Mullen. I mean, you can keep chirping this line but it’s never changing.

[Fader21]

I would still take a look at some other candidates before hiring Hudspeth.
Good thing about him is he would bring back people like Reed Stringer (Very good recruiter), I think DJ Looney might be brought back, Keep Hughes and T-Buck
Also if he brought in the likes of Will Hall

Defensive Coordinators:
Keep Shoop
Or look at Kevin Steele if Gus is fired
David Reeves at UAB

[Thick]

Don’t bring real shit into this Pipedream. Hud is 17ing Incredible! He’s a legend. Shotgun is getting moist.

You either know how to attack defenses with your offensive approach or you don’t. It’s got nothing to do with being a P5 coordinator. You either know your shit or you don’t. JoMo....P5 coordinator hasn’t worked out for us.

[MetEdDawg]

I would still take a look at some other candidates before hiring Hudspeth.
Good thing about him is he would bring back people like Reed Stringer (Very good recruiter), I think DJ Looney might be brought back, Keep Hughes and T-Buck
Also if he brought in the likes of Will Hall

Defensive Coordinators:
Keep Shoop
Or look at Kevin Steele if Gus is fired
David Reeves at UAB

Some Auburn people seem to think of Gus is canned that Kevin Steele might become HC. Auburn apparently wants to keep him at all costs. They might just make him their HC which would be really dumb.

[tcdog70]

Look at what he did on our staff--We were better every time he was on our staff. Plus he can recruit. Good example bringing up Kermit.. He is a proven winner at schools that don't normally win--but the same naysayers for Hud were naysayers for Kermit. Now he is at our rival and doing well. Why are we hard on MSU people? it is like we would rather go sign some Yankee who knows nothing about Mississippi or the South than to welcome on of our own--who have proven they can win.

[PMDawg]

He pretty much flamed out in his last years at ULL.

[Cooterpoot]

And if Hud gets hired, so be it. But there’s no 17ing way he’s one of our first several calls. He’s our backup plan. And we won’t need a backup plan. I can tell you, there’s interest in this job. Solid interest.
Hud can take us to a bowl game. It’s time we shoot higher than that. If all else fails, go get Hud.

[basedog]

I'm a wait and see who is interested and who may come available for now. I think all this speculation will become reality after Thursday Night.

I do think Cohen will be getting many more calls from agents.

[Thick]

Why would you hire Steele as your HC at AU? AU could do much, much better then that. Hiring Steele is an MSU move.

[Jack Lambert]

Don’t bring real shit into this Pipedream. Hud is 17ing Incredible! He’s a legend. Shotgun is getting moist.

As a young Marine I had some really good time with those cheap and easy. Just saying.

[Pipedream]

You either know how to attack defenses with your offensive approach or you don’t. It’s got nothing to do with being a P5 coordinator. You either know your shit or you don’t. JoMo....P5 coordinator hasn’t worked out for us.

I don't have Moorheads numbers from Akron, but in 6 years leading an offense-2 at UConn OC, 2 at Penn St OC, 2 at MSU HC his average offense is 43rd ppg, 44th ypp. Even with all of Moorheads issues, his metrics are still stronger than Huds at the FBS level.

[HailStateSZN19]

And if Hud gets hired, so be it. But there’s no 17ing way he’s one of our first several calls. He’s our backup plan. And we won’t need a backup plan. I can tell you, there’s interest in this job. Solid interest.
Hud can take us to a bowl game. It’s time we shoot higher than that. If all else fails, go get Hud.

Can you name any names of who's interested aside from Napier and Norvell? Who is interested that you're labeling as "solid" interest? Just curious. I wouldn't be excited about Hud but I wouldn't hate it either. I think he's a great option to have as a "fall back" guy if he is on down the list once others told us no since he'd take the job in a heart beat and would do pretty well here you'd think. Just curious if you can throw out the solid, interested names if possible?

[StarkVegasSteve]

I would still take a look at some other candidates before hiring Hudspeth.
Good thing about him is he would bring back people like Reed Stringer (Very good recruiter), I think DJ Looney might be brought back, Keep Hughes and T-Buck
Also if he brought in the likes of Will Hall

Defensive Coordinators:
Keep Shoop
Or look at Kevin Steele if Gus is fired
David Reeves at UAB

If this is the hire for OC/QB coach then Hud would knock it out of the park and hell Will was his QB at UNA. So it's not farfetched to think that he hasn't already made this call.

[Coursesuper]

As a young Marine I had some really good time with those cheap and easy. Just saying.

Did that depended on which country you were in? Just Sayin****

[Jack Lambert]

Did that depended on which country you were in? Just Sayin****

Philippines! Just in case you want to know.

[Coursesuper]

Philippines! Just in case you want to know.

Ahhh Yes, ROK was the same.

[WinningIsRelentless]

He relies on huge influence of transfers first couple of years and then falls off after that.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Some of you people are straight up delusional.

If Hud has that "it" factor on O, why were his Os at ULL objectively mediocre?

If hud is such a great recruiter, developer, and hirer of coaches, why did he never do better than his year 1 record at ULL?

If Hud is so good at managing culture why dod his ULL time end in 3 bad years? 1 I could forgive due to the NCAA stuff, but 3? That's inexcusable.

Nobody has answers for these points

[Jack Lambert]

Ahhh Yes, ROK was the same.

I did a team spirit there and yes I agree. We had a guy in my unit who was Korean and he spoke the language. That made our experience a lot better. Okinawa was kind of crazy with the NAHA music club in NAHA city and whisper alley in Okinawa city. I was at camp Foster and spent time at Camp Schwab but never spent time at Camp Geiger and I am pretty sure they had some wild places around Geiger but the classy places were in NAHA city.

[ShotgunDawg]

He has never even been a P5 coordinator. He's run an offense at the G5 level 8 times. As OC at Navy in 01 they averaged 18 ppg. His average ULL offense was 58th in points and 55th in ypp-smack dab in the middle of FBS. I just think if you're hiring an offensive coach that he'd have better metrics than that. Contrast that with Norvell (whom we may not can get, I'm not sure)-his 8 years leading an offense were 4 as OC at ASU, 4 HC at Memphis where his average was 13th in ppg and 30th in ypp. And he was playing a big step up in competition.

ETA: Might as well throw in Napiers numbers as well. 2 years as OC at Clemson, 1 as OC at ASU, 2 HC at ULL. Averaged Offense 41st in ppg/43rd ypp. And he had a horrendous year in 2010 as Clemsons OC that skews his numbers. I don't know the correct way to filter these numbers, but objectively over the big picture, it's clear Norvell is an offensive juggernaut, Napier is adequate, and Hud is mediocre.

It's just amazing to me that people care more about this type of stuff than winning games & turning around 3 programs. Talk about missing the forest for the trees.

There's a lot more to building a winning program than just where you rank on offense & Hud is apparently very good, looking at facts, at those things

[ShotgunDawg]

Some of you people are straight up delusional.

If Hud has that "it" factor on O, why were his Os at ULL objectively mediocre?

If hud is such a great recruiter, developer, and hirer of coaches, why did he never do better than his year 1 record at ULL?

If Hud is so good at managing culture why dod his ULL time end in 3 bad years? 1 I could forgive due to the NCAA stuff, but 3? That's inexcusable.

Nobody has answers for these points

He kind of did do better after his first year.

In his first year, they only played 1 power 5 opponent (Oklahoma State) & lost. In the next two years they played two power 5 opponents & lost. So the record stayed the same but the schedule did not

As for his last 3 years at ULL, I think that's obviously the elephant in the room that even I would need answer about. Was it because of the investigation or something else? IDK

[ShotgunDawg]

He pretty much flamed out in his last years at ULL.

Finding the reason as to why would certainly be important. However, with his track record of turning programs around, it's probably worth investigating if the downfall of that program was within his control or were there uncontrollable circumstances that caused it.

[HoopsDawg]

Hud is the Larry Templeton hire. Cheap and easy. You guys were loving Chiz this weekend.

I agree.

[ShotgunDawg]

Hud is the Larry Templeton hire. Cheap and easy. You guys were loving Chiz this weekend.

I don't disagree but that doesn't mean it's not the right hire. Richard Williams was cheap & easy as well. Dabo was cheap & easy as well.

Cheap & easy is also a code word for obvious

[HoopsDawg]

And if Hud gets hired, so be it. But there?s no 17ing way he?s one of our first several calls. He?s our backup plan. And we won?t need a backup plan. I can tell you, there?s interest in this job. Solid interest.
Hud can take us to a bowl game. It?s time we shoot higher than that. If all else fails, go get Hud.

To get to a bowl, this years team had to win 2 games. 4-7 Ole Miss and UK before they put Bowden at QB. Both games at home. The other 4 wins were near impossible to lose.

[HoopsDawg]

I don't disagree but that doesn't mean it's not the right hire. Richard Williams was cheap & easy as well. Dabo was cheap & easy as well.

Cheap & easy is also a code word for obvious

Hud is a nice insurance policy if we brick out on everyone else.

[PMDawg]

Finding the reason as to why would certainly be important. However, with his track record of turning programs around, it's probably worth investigating if the downfall of that program was within his control or were there uncontrollable circumstances that caused it.

Don't disagree, but that's one of several "strikes". I know, no candidate is perfect so don't read too much into this.
NCAA issues - strike (I know, it wasn't necessarily on him)
Last 3 years at ULL - strike
Middling offensive numbers - strike
No other P5 program has come calling - strike

None of these alone are a deal breaker, maybe not even combined. But, it does make you pump the brakes a little and say "hmmm".

[ShotgunDawg]

Hud is a nice insurance policy if we brick out on everyone else.

Pretty damn good insurance policy.

[ShotgunDawg]

Don't disagree, but that's one of several "strikes". I know, no candidate is perfect so don't read too much into this.
NCAA issues - strike (I know, it wasn't necessarily on him)
Last 3 years at ULL - strike
Middling offensive numbers - strike
No other P5 program has come calling - strike

None of these alone are a deal breaker, maybe not even combined. But, it does make you pump the brakes a little and say "hmmm".

He's be a power 5 head coach if the NCAA thing didn't happen at ULL. He's was easily on that path.

So that doesn't really bother me because we have an actual reason as to why he's not a power 5.... YET

[HoopsDawg]

Pretty damn good insurance policy.

I guess. FCS coach. 17-22 last 3 years at UL.

[Pipedream]

It's just amazing to me that people care more about this type of stuff than winning games & turning around 3 programs. Talk about missing the forest for the trees.

There's a lot more to building a winning program than just where you rank on offense & Hud is apparently very good, looking at facts, at those things

Ok, what have I posted that isn't "facts"? Stats are the objective truth. You want wins now when it's convenient to your position? Winning games is important now? Ok, cool. Let's look at 4 guys-Norvell, Napier, Moorhead, and Hud and see what their teams records are when they are the OC/HC at an FBS School:

Norvell 71-34*assuming he wins this weekend, he's a 10 pt favorite (67.6%)
Napier 39-27*assuming he wins this weekend, he's a 21 pt favorite* (59.1%)
Moorhead 66-48*assuming he wins this weekend, he's a 3 pt favorite* (57.9%)
Hudspeth 51-48 (51.5%)

[BhamDawg205]

I did a team spirit there and yes I agree. We had a guy in my unit who was Korean and he spoke the language. That made our experience a lot better. Okinawa was kind of crazy with the NAHA music club in NAHA city and whisper alley in Okinawa city. I was at camp Foster and spent time at Camp Schwab but never spent time at Camp Geiger and I am pretty sure they had some wild places around Geiger but the classy places were in NAHA city.

Psst Psst Gi me love you long time... Did you see the woman count coins out of her puzz in Naha. I was station at Futema

[deadheaddawg]

what is his Overall record at his 3 schools? It looks like his last years at ULL was not good. I see some references to vacating wins, so I am not clear on what his actual W-L record is on the field

[PGHBulldogBG]

I think Hud would be a good choice for stability and if he is successful I don’t think the media would be shopping him for every big job available due to his ties here. Just like any coach it can be a wildcard but I would prefer him to Moorhead any day. His resume passes the eye test a lot better than Joe.

[RougeDawg]

I don't have Moorheads numbers from Akron, but in 6 years leading an offense-2 at UConn OC, 2 at Penn St OC, 2 at MSU HC his average offense is 43rd ppg, 44th ypp. Even with all of Moorheads issues, his metrics are still stronger than Huds at the FBS level.

What have Penn States offensive numbers looked like after SloMo left? They appear to have not even missed a beat. Give SloMo a sure fire first round starting running back and semi-elite talent at WR, and his offense may look better. Breaking news, Mississippi State will never have that talent. We need a coach who does more with less. Not less with more.

[preachermatt83]

I know him personally and he is a hell of a football coach. He is so far above what we have now it isn?t funny. He would put Peterson as on field coach which should have been done anyway.

I agree. Exact same sentiments

[Irondawg]

Truth is it's all complicated and while you have to look at some analytical metrics you also have to determine fit and believe in the plan the candidate is selling. I bet Moorhead interviewed fantastic, had a great resume, etc. The problem is his inability to implement his plan here for whatever reason. But I sure as hell hope Cohen knows that reason better than any of us.

Norvell - great resume, personality issues potentially a concern. He's taken over a ready-to-win program and not screwed it up. But the little I've watched with his O, does it translate to the SEC and can we get the right players to implement it?

Napier - looks to be up and coming but has relied on a ton of veterans on offense this year. Would love to see what he does next year with a big turnover in talent, but we don't have that luxury. Interview and some digging around his programs with past players would be key. Does he have the personality to turn around the culture here?

Hud - some ups and down and as mentioned my biggest question would be what happened at ULL the last few years and if that's a real concern or not. He's been here so there shouldn't be any surprises on how his personality would or wouldn't fit. We know he loves this place and would give us everything he has. His interview take on why Moorhead didn't work and how he'd fix it would be great to hear since he was here during Mullen and Moorhead.

If these were our final 3 then I don't think there is a truly right or wrong answer b/c they all check different boxes. All of them have been mostly successful over their career. The biggest thing of all is to figure out the personality and avoid whatever has caused Moorhead to fall on his face here.

[trojandawg]

he is a really good football coach. we could do much worse than him. he would be an upgrade from Moorhead. he has proven what he can do when he takes over a program and he has the sec experience. i wouldn't hate it. i was coached by him in some camps year ago. i personally know what type of motivator he is as a coach. i'm not sure what caused his slide at the end of ULL, but he was and is a good coach.

[Pipedream]

What have Penn States offensive numbers looked like after SloMo left? They appear to have not even missed a beat. Give SloMo a sure fire first round starting running back and semi-elite talent at WR, and his offense may look better. Breaking news, Mississippi State will never have that talent. We need a coach who does more with less. Not less with more.

They've taken a step back. A considerable step back. Probably a combo of losing Moorhead and losing a ton of really all time great players for them. 16/17 their offense avg 14th ppg/18th ypp; 18/19 O avg 27th ppg/50th ypp

[trojandawg]

yes and the OC at Notre Dame played under him at UNA also.

[trojandawg]

Byrne likes guys like him, Mullen, and Rich Rod. guys that are intense get after it coaches.

[Thick]

I don't have Moorheads numbers from Akron, but in 6 years leading an offense-2 at UConn OC, 2 at Penn St OC, 2 at MSU HC his average offense is 43rd ppg, 44th ypp. Even with all of Moorheads issues, his metrics are still stronger than Huds at the FBS level.

Those stats are great, but at MSU in the toughest conference and division it hasn?t happened. That?s where it matters. That?s exactly why I said if you understand the defensive side then your offense should work if you are willing to make adjustments without P5 OC experience.

[ShotgunDawg]

Those stats are great, but at MSU in the toughest conference and division it hasn?t happened. That?s where it matters. That?s exactly why I said if you understand the defensive side then your offense should without P5 OC experience.

Plus it appears that Hud's real skill is not necessarily as an OC as much as it is his ability to implement a system & culture.

[BrunswickDawg]

He kind of did do better after his first year.

In his first year, they only played 1 power 5 opponent (Oklahoma State) & lost. In the next two years they played two power 5 opponents & lost. So the record stayed the same but the schedule did not

As for his last 3 years at ULL, I think that's obviously the elephant in the room that even I would need answer about. Was it because of the investigation or something else? IDK

You missed ULL playing Arizona in Hud's first year in addition to OK St.

But, it does bring up something I think people are missing about Hud's tenure at ULL - and that's some of the changes made in the Sunbelt. App state, Georgia Southern, Georgia State, Idaho, and USA coming into the league seriously changed the dynamics beginning in '14 & '15. Just like there was a shake out period for Mizzou and A&M when they moved to the SEC - unfamiliar travel, unfamiliar stadium, unfamiliar opponents - all benefited Mizzou and A&M early on and surprised the rest of the conference (yes, Mizzou was bad for the first season, but then won the east 2 straight years). App State and Ga Southern were 2 of the most successful programs in FBS for decades - and they translated very well to the Sunbelt - and the Sunbelt teams had to adjust and up their games.

[R2Dawg]

Ok, what have I posted that isn't "facts"? Stats are the objective truth. You want wins now when it's convenient to your position? Winning games is important now? Ok, cool. Let's look at 4 guys-Norvell, Napier, Moorhead, and Hud and see what their teams records are when they are the OC/HC at an FBS School:

Norvell 71-34*assuming he wins this weekend, he's a 10 pt favorite (67.6%)
Napier 39-27*assuming he wins this weekend, he's a 21 pt favorite* (59.1%)
Moorhead 66-48*assuming he wins this weekend, he's a 3 pt favorite* (57.9%)
Hudspeth 51-48 (51.5%)


Come on now, don't confuse shotgun's opinion with facts.

Truth is none of us really know who the hire is that is gonna work out. We absolutely can't hire a guy that only has one O or D way of doing things if we want to win long term. They have to know the game and adapt/adjust to talent they have vs what others have. Don't adjust and you lose. That is what we had with Croom and Moorhead.

[ShotgunDawg]

Come on now, don't confuse shotgun's opinion with facts.

Truth is none of us really know who the hire is that is gonna work out. We absolutely can't hire a guy that only has one O or D way of doing things if we want to win long term. They have to know the game and adapt/adjust to talent they have vs what others have. Don't adjust and you lose. That is what we had with Croom and Moorhead.

Was my first post not facts?

Did I just make up his records?

Do you understand the difference between a fact & opinion?

[was21]

Another non answer but thanks anyway. The reason is he is considered dirty...just answered it myself

[Thick]

And for the record, maybe if Hevesy was still here our offensive line would have been mean spirited SOB’s with a chip on their shoulder we would have produced offensively vs SEC teams. Maybe Jo as the OC and ANYBODY at HC with bowling ball sized nuts and a drive to win at all costs, we would have a better record based on accountability, discipline, and better S&C. Jo’s just not a HC in this league, the end.

[RiverCityDawg]

Truth is it's all complicated and while you have to look at some analytical metrics you also have to determine fit and believe in the plan the candidate is selling. I bet Moorhead interviewed fantastic, had a great resume, etc. The problem is his inability to implement his plan here for whatever reason. But I sure as hell hope Cohen knows that reason better than any of us.

Norvell - great resume, personality issues potentially a concern. He's taken over a ready-to-win program and not screwed it up. But the little I've watched with his O, does it translate to the SEC and can we get the right players to implement it?

Napier - looks to be up and coming but has relied on a ton of veterans on offense this year. Would love to see what he does next year with a big turnover in talent, but we don't have that luxury. Interview and some digging around his programs with past players would be key. Does he have the personality to turn around the culture here?

Hud - some ups and down and as mentioned my biggest question would be what happened at ULL the last few years and if that's a real concern or not. He's been here so there shouldn't be any surprises on how his personality would or wouldn't fit. We know he loves this place and would give us everything he has. His interview take on why Moorhead didn't work and how he'd fix it would be great to hear since he was here during Mullen and Moorhead.

If these were our final 3 then I don't think there is a truly right or wrong answer b/c they all check different boxes. All of them have been mostly successful over their career. The biggest thing of all is to figure out the personality and avoid whatever has caused Moorhead to fall on his face here.

Good post.

One comment I would make is that Norvell will run the hell out of the ball if needed. Under center around the goal line and short yardage, two back sets, power, etc he'll do all that at times. They average around 200 rushing yards per game, got two RBs drafted last year and have two very good backs this year. I think the running aspect of his offense gets lost because his teams throw it so well. With him I'm more concerned about his ability to turn it around, to your point about taking over a ready-made program. That, and his defensive focus.

I agree about the question marks you list on the others. Really anyone we could possibly get is going to Have questions, just like Joe did (which is why I don't blame Cohen too much). But we've reached the point where it's worth the risk to make a change.

[TrapGame]

Jo’s just not a HC in this league, the end.

And Joe knows it too. He has no clue what to do.

[JoseBrown]

I don't have Moorheads numbers from Akron, but in 6 years leading an offense-2 at UConn OC, 2 at Penn St OC, 2 at MSU HC his average offense is 43rd ppg, 44th ypp. Even with all of Moorheads issues, his metrics are still stronger than Huds at the FBS level.

How are Moorhead's strong metrics working out for us, though?

[RougeDawg]

Just keep in mind that there has been a Howland type coaching replacement plan in place the last few weeks. The pieces are in place to make the move. Just wonder when it will happen.

[RiverCityDawg]

Just keep in mind that there has been a Howland type coaching replacement plan in place the last few weeks. The pieces are in place to make the move. Just wonder when it will happen.

Just so we're clear, do you just mean immediate replacement or immediate replacement with a guy who isn't currently a head coach anywhere?

[Johnson85]

I don't have Moorheads numbers from Akron, but in 6 years leading an offense-2 at UConn OC, 2 at Penn St OC, 2 at MSU HC his average offense is 43rd ppg, 44th ypp. Even with all of Moorheads issues, his metrics are still stronger than Huds at the FBS level.

Were Mullen's offensive numbers that good his first five years? Granted, he improved our offense a lot in the first couple of years and it was in the best defensive conference out there at a point that it was strong, but I would say Mullen's first five years he wasn't successful b/c he was a great offensive coordinator (although he mostly did a good job) but because he was good at managing a program. Outside of 2012 and the Sirmon experience, I think we really relied as much or more on defense than offense in every year?

All that to say, I think it's possible to be a good head coach without being a great coordinator.

[Pipedream]

How are Moorhead's strong metrics working out for us, though?

I don't consider top 35% of FBS to be "strong", but that's just my POV. I think those were solid numbers but don't jump off the page at you. And I think it's to be expected these guys numbers will drop when they get to a place like State where the talent gap becomes wider and more important and the home field advantages swing games more. Moorhead at State avg O is 72 ppg/35 ypg. So he's down in points, up in yards. Net close to even. I think we're getting pretty close to his historical averages. Long story short-it's not working out for us so you better get someone with better "metrics" than he has/had coming here to run the offense.

[sandjunky]

Did Hudspeth take a pay cut to go to AP?

[War Machine Dawg]

If you use this as a criteria you'll always be watching other teams hire a Satterfield or Klieman. Then when they leave Lville or KSU it ain't to come to MSU. You always be one step behind.

Nailed it. If we ever want to have a big time winner at HC, we're going to have to roll the dice on him before other P5 programs are willing to do so. Satterfield & Kliemann are the perfect examples. They aren't leaving Louisville or KSU for State. They'll leave for a blue blood. But we could've gotten either last year. They would still probably leave us for a blue blood, but we'd be a better program for it.

Now is the time for us to hire a Norvell, Napier or even Hud. Being risk averse isn't a success for formula at State when it comes to hiring a football HC. We've gotta gamble on a proven winner at G5 or FCS level.

[R2Dawg]

Was my first post not facts?

Did I just make up his records?

Do you understand the difference between a fact & opinion?

I assume your original facts were correct that wasn't my point. You typically spout off one fact and then bloviate a mountain of opinion. Everyone can pull up some stat that says their guy is better and spin it their way. You did that saying if you want to win now, Hud is the guy so everyone quick questioning my wisdom.

You are always thinking you are the smartest guy in the room - "do I know the difference in fact & opinion?" You are about three or four thoughts behind everyone else. I'll slow it down for you below the difference in fact and opinion.

Hud being the guy is your opinion. Pipedream just threw some winning facts at you comparing coaches. Doesn't mean Hud may not be the best guy just don't go telling everyone else they are wrong because they have different facts or opinions supporting it. I like Hud; not sure if he is the best #1 pick or not. People in the know hopefully can make a better decision than we can. We are a talk board and can discuss facts but mostly opinions about fandom all day.

[Pipedream]

Were Mullen's offensive numbers that good his first five years? Granted, he improved our offense a lot in the first couple of years and it was in the best defensive conference out there at a point that it was strong, but I would say Mullen's first five years he wasn't successful b/c he was a great offensive coordinator (although he mostly did a good job) but because he was good at managing a program. Outside of 2012 and the Sirmon experience, I think we really relied as much or more on defense than offense in every year?

All that to say, I think it's possible to be a good head coach without being a great coordinator.

Mullen at State 09-13 averaged 64th ppg/ 54th ypp 56% win %
14-17 avg 37th ppg/39 ypp 63.5% win %

Now, some of that is you had a future MVP candidate come through for 2 years, but they recruited him and signed him and a lot of other schools had that same opportunity. He also had time to build his base and culture up from the doldrums we were in.

[ShotgunDawg]

I assume your original facts were correct that wasn't my point. You typically spout off one fact and then bloviate a mountain of opinion. Everyone can pull up some stat that says their guy is better and spin it their way. You did that saying if you want to win now, Hud is the guy so everyone quick questioning my wisdom.

You are always thinking you are the smartest guy in the room - "do I know the difference in fact & opinion?" You are about three or four thoughts behind everyone else. I'll slow it down for you below the difference in fact and opinion.

Hud being the guy is your opinion. Pipedream just threw some winning facts at you comparing coaches. Doesn't mean Hud may not be the best guy just don't go telling everyone else they are wrong because they have different facts or opinions supporting it. I like Hud; not sure if he is the best #1 pick or not. People in the know hopefully can make a better decision than we can. We are a talk board and can discuss facts but mostly opinions about fandom all day.

It not my fault that you're incapable of formulating quality opinions that you can back up

[MedDawg]

What have Penn States offensive numbers looked like after SloMo left? They appear to have not even missed a beat..

This is said often on State boards so I looked it up. In 2017 Penn State was #6 in scoring offense. After Moorhead left, Penn State dropped to #32 and are #23 this season.

[Dawgology]

Just keep in mind that there has been a Howland type coaching replacement plan in place the last few weeks. The pieces are in place to make the move. Just wonder when it will happen.

Chizik it is then.

[Tbonewannabe]

This is said often on State boards so I looked it up. In 2017 Penn State was #6 in scoring offense. After Moorhead left, Penn State dropped to #32 and are #23 this season.

Not a huge drop off after losing possibly the best RB out of college in the last decade. For reference, we returned one of the best QBs in total offense in the country along with a veteran Oline and a RB that was a 1K rusher. We dropped from 40 to in the 60s. We also were garbage in SEC games that teams had a better defense than in the 20s.

[War Machine Dawg]

Good post.

One comment I would make is that Norvell will run the hell out of the ball if needed. Under center around the goal line and short yardage, two back sets, power, etc he'll do all that at times. They average around 200 rushing yards per game, got two RBs drafted last year and have two very good backs this year. I think the running aspect of his offense gets lost because his teams throw it so well. With him I'm more concerned about his ability to turn it around, to your point about taking over a ready-made program. That, and his defensive focus.

I agree about the question marks you list on the others. Really anyone we could possibly get is going to Have questions, just like Joe did (which is why I don't blame Cohen too much). But we've reached the point where it's worth the risk to make a change.

For me, that's actually a positive for Norvell. Who has ever kept Memphis successful? Every time they've had a decent coach who left, the program would fall back off the map. And Norvell has kept it going past the group of Fuente recruits, so no one can say he's living on Fuente's scraps. Throw in the number of coaches he's had hired away for promotion (6 took HC jobs) and I think the guy is about as good as there is available. While I like Hud, I'd much rather have Norvell.

[HailStateSZN19]

Chizik it is then.

I want a change at HC, but I can't wrap my brain around hiring Chizik. That's so far out of LF there's no way that's not just a smoke screen. Give me Norvell 1st but I'm afraid we're going to miss out on him when FSU screws the pooch on Franklin/Franklin uses them for a raise and then they fall back on Norvell. If not Norvell, I'd personally like to see Clawson get a shot and if not him, then I'd turn to Napier. But there's so many better options than Chizik. Cooter has mentioned today there's "solid interest" in our job should it come open so my gosh surely there are plenty of options that are waaayyyyyy better than Gene Chizik.... Should we lose Thursday night or if we're already just 100% moving on regardless, it'll be really interesting to see what "solid interest" there really is and what names start surfacing that we haven't even discussed.

[Mjoelner34]

This is said often on State boards so I looked it up. In 2017 Penn State was #6 in scoring offense. After Moorhead left, Penn State dropped to #32 and are #23 this season.

Before their last game, I think they were averaging around .6ppg less that JoMo's last year there. That's not much difference.

[ScrotieMcBoogerBalls]

As a young Marine I had some really good time with those cheap and easy. Just saying.

3130

[sandjunky]

Damn, either HUD likes being a HC or he saw the future and didn’t want to be tied to it
As AHC and TE coach —> $400k
As HC AP —> $265k

That’s a nice haircut

[trojandawg]

Damn, either HUD likes being a HC or he saw the future and didn?t want to be tied to it
As AHC and TE coach ?> $400k
As HC AP ?> $265k

That?s a nice haircut

Ding ding ding. A lot of coaches cut ties with Moorhead last year. Everyone said it was because they were stepping up. Maybe it?s because they were getting away.

[ShotgunDawg]

Damn, either HUD likes being a HC or he saw the future and didn?t want to be tied to it
As AHC and TE coach ?> $400k
As HC AP ?> $265k

That?s a nice haircut

My guess is that it's a combo of both. Either way, I think he'd be tremendous here.

I'd be super curious to hear how much of that Auburn game plan last year was his idea. Also makes sense as to why we haven't seen it this year.

[sandjunky]

For shits and giggles- go check page 300 of the forum and work your way back down to around 280....the melt was real in yr 1

[bulldawg28]

HUD is a lower level coach. He tried to cheat,cut corners, and failed. It is what it is.

[R2Dawg]

It not my fault that you're incapable of formulating quality opinions that you can back up

Opinions are like, well you know. Everybody has one, some just bigger than others.

The fact that you think bringing up useless obscure data to make a point that no one else should or can question and then when someone brings up alternate data to counter your point with which you begin to argue with others exposes your capability. I'll give you some free advice as I have nothing personal with you (yes you continue to try to insult me but I understand little man syndrome).

Here is the advice. Best for you just to express your opinion and discuss with others without telling anyone that doesn't agree with you they are stupid or an idiot. Quit being a cyber bully. Grow up.

[DLGDawg]

Just keep in mind that there has been a Howland type coaching replacement plan in place the last few weeks. The pieces are in place to make the move. Just wonder when it will happen.

To me that means a highly successful coach ...possibly older and possibly not currently coaching.

Howland was considered a home run. Gene Chizik comes NOWHERE near a home run hire.

[shrimp]

Just keep in mind that there has been a Howland type coaching replacement plan in place the last few weeks. The pieces are in place to make the move. Just wonder when it will happen.

Urban! Urban! Urban!

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

This thread has devolved into A) a bunch of irrelevant bickering, B) cherry picked stats and arguing about which ones are/aren't relevant and who is/isnt' taking the appropriate level of big picture view, and C) Hud supporters making very specific counters to doubters like me while ignoring all our other points.

"Hud learned from hiring Sauders!" - How in the world do you know what he did or didn't learn?

"Hud actually improved over time at ULL because they played 1 more P5 team a year and they had to play new teams as the Sun Belt expanded" - OK, but at the end of the day he went (regular season) 9-3, 8-4, 8-4, and 8-4 in his first 4 years... His own recruits picked to run his own system coached by his own coaches in his own culture, and they did NOT show improvement that implies he didn't reach his potential there.

"His time at ULL was derailed by the NCAA sanctions" - Does NOT explain why the last 3 full seasons sucked. That's way too long for a coach to have and not right the ship. Seriously, any coach that's good at bringing in talent, hiring good coaches, and managing the culture should have 1 bad year, 2 at worst, due to NCAA stuff. Hud showed to me he lacked some combo of the 3.

"He's got that IT factor on O! Remember how good that Auburn gameplan was!" and yet Napier has taken Hud's recruits and built a far better O than Hud did with Hud's recruits. And Hud's overall offensive numbers aren't impressive at all, AND he's not an OC so we'd have to find the money for a good OC AND make the right hire there, whereas Napier would handle the OC duties himself while probably getting better offensive results than Hud's OC (I'm saying this based on statistics, not made up opinion).

But go ahead, ignore this post, or just half address one of the points if it makes you feel better. It's clear this board has zero intent of seriously thinking about this, and just wants to live in a fantasy land where Hud is fantastic in every way. Hud won't leave us, he won't "cheat" on us. After Mullen betrayed us I think many place way too much emphasis on finding someone who will be loyal, and when they find one who will they ignore all the other flaws in the relationship

[lastmajordog]

"He would put Peterson as on field coach which should have been done anyway.?
THANK YOU.....been hollering this for years......a total waste of coaching talent for WAY TOO LONG.....

[ShotgunDawg]

This thread has devolved into A) a bunch of irrelevant bickering, B) cherry picked stats and arguing about which ones are/aren't relevant and who is/isnt' taking the appropriate level of big picture view, and C) Hud supporters making very specific counters to doubters like me while ignoring all our other points.

"Hud learned from hiring Sauders!" - How in the world do you know what he did or didn't learn?

"Hud actually improved over time at ULL because they played 1 more P5 team a year and they had to play new teams as the Sun Belt expanded" - OK, but at the end of the day he went (regular season) 9-3, 8-4, 8-4, and 8-4 in his first 4 years... His own recruits picked to run his own system coached by his own coaches in his own culture, and they did NOT show improvement that implies he didn't reach his potential there.

"His time at ULL was derailed by the NCAA sanctions" - Does NOT explain why the last 3 full seasons sucked. That's way too long for a coach to have and not right the ship. Seriously, any coach that's good at bringing in talent, hiring good coaches, and managing the culture should have 1 bad year, 2 at worst, due to NCAA stuff. Hud showed to me he lacked some combo of the 3.

"He's got that IT factor on O! Remember how good that Auburn gameplan was!" and yet Napier has taken Hud's recruits and built a far better O than Hud did with Hud's recruits. And Hud's overall offensive numbers aren't impressive at all, AND he's not an OC so we'd have to find the money for a good OC AND make the right hire there, whereas Napier would handle the OC duties himself while probably getting better offensive results than Hud's OC (I'm saying this based on statistics, not made up opinion).

But go ahead, ignore this post, or just half address one of the points if it makes you feel better. It's clear this board has zero intent of seriously thinking about this, and just wants to live in a fantasy land where Hud is fantastic in every way. Hud won't leave us, he won't "cheat" on us. After Mullen betrayed us I think many place way too much emphasis on finding someone who will be loyal, and when they find one who will they ignore all the other flaws in the relationship

No, the fantasy land is that you & Cooter believe there is this perfect, can't miss, no risk candidate out there that we can get. If there is, then by all means let's hire him.

I am not delusional enough to believe that there is no risk with Hud. However, when forced to choose between flaws & what is the right fit for MSU, I'm choosing him until I see a candidate that is clearly better.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

No, the fantasy land is that you & Cooter believe there is this perfect, can't miss, no risk candidate out there that we can get. If there is, then by all means let's hire him.

I am not delusional enough to believe that there is no risk with Hud. However, when forced to choose between flaws & what is the right fit for MSU, I'm choosing him until I see a candidate that is clearly better.

No! I believe all coaching hires are gambles. C34 might be the next Saban here. Urban Meyer might bomb here. But you still play the odds and hire Urban over C34.

Hud is far from a bad candidate. His resume is a hell of lot better than Morris' was when he got hired at Arky, and that was considered a decent hire by most national media folk and Arky fans. I would be disappointed if we hired Hud, but would soon be excited and ready to rock and roll next season with some physical Mississippi State brand football, which I agree Hud would bring back.

However, I am saying 2 things:

1) this board is ignoring all his questions. It wants to focus on his early ULL days and this season and skip the middle. That's not how this should be done; give a real reason for why then end of his ULL days isn't a MAJOR red flag (which it is), and then support him. But don't just pretend like he was set up to fail by the evil David Saunders and that excuses 3 straight losing seasons. I sound harsher on Hud than I am because I want the baord to THINK rather than just FEEL how nice it would be to have a loyal State fan as HC.

2) He does have much less of a track record so it's fair to say he could have a Saunders situation followed by 3 straight loosing seasons ahead of him, but Napier's resume is FAR better than Hud's is as far as recruiting and offensive numbers go, and he's going to have a better year this year than Hud ever had at ULL. Did Hud ever have the #1 recruiting class in the conference? Well Napier does, twice. ULL's current O blows any under Hud out of the water and that's statistics, not an opinion.

Downsides of Napier? Well he's only won immediately at 1 program, so Hud is a safer bet to be able to come in and manage our culture. He's also probably going to jump ship if he does well enough to get a blue blood offer. Lastly, his resume is short so he could have hidden flaws. But he's winning bigger than Hud, has never had a program fall apart like Hud did, puts a better offensive product on the field, and is a better recruiter, at least at ULL.

Hud may be the right choice. Napier may be Morris 2.0. But length of resume is the only thing Hud has on him- and every metric we can compare so far is better than Hud's. Does that meet your standard of "clearly better"? It does to me. I have a lot of respect for you but I think you're using your heart and not your head a little too much here. And I agree, it's a much better story to have a MS fan "come home" than it is to have some dude with zero ties to us come in. But at the end of the day what matters is getting the best coach for us

[Cowbell]

Just keep in mind that there has been a Howland type coaching replacement plan in place the last few weeks. The pieces are in place to make the move. Just wonder when it will happen.

Has this guy Head coached in the SEC?

[Cooterpoot]

No, the fantasy land is that you & Cooter believe there is this perfect, can't miss, no risk candidate out there that we can get. If there is, then by all means let's hire him.

I am not delusional enough to believe that there is no risk with Hud. However, when forced to choose between flaws & what is the right fit for MSU, I'm choosing him until I see a candidate that is clearly better.

While you’re running this circle jerk of a Hud thread in the ground, you need to understand something. Nobody expects a perfect candidate. But I expect the best candidate available and Hud is not that. He’s not close. He took a UNA program that was one of the best programs historically in their division. Wallace came back and had another run himself. Healy built up that Peay job from nothing before Hud got there. ULL ended in his firing. He’s nothing special. He’s what Bobby Wallace once was. That’s it. So you can carry on with this thread or one of the other 800 you start here each day, but it won’t change that. Just because he grew up a fan and was from down the road should never matter. Carry on. Hope you find a job, because you’re killing this site with your constant over-saturation of bullshit.

[ShotgunDawg]

While you’re running this circle jerk of a Hud thread in the ground, you need to understand something. Nobody expects a perfect candidate. But I expect the best candidate available and Hud is not that. He’s not close. He took a UNA program that was one of the best programs historically in their division. Wallace came back and had another run himself. Healy built up that Peay job from nothing before Hud got there. ULL ended in his firing. He’s nothing special. He’s what Bobby Wallace once was. That’s it. So you can carry on with this thread or one of the other 800 you start here each day, but it won’t change that. Just because he grew up a fan and was from down the road should never matter. Carry on. Hope you find a job, because you’re killing this site with your constant over-saturation of bullshit.

Yeah.... my 4 100 reply threads over the past week are killing the site*

[deadheaddawg]

Yeah.... my 4 100 reply threads over the past week are killing the site*
Thread length on a sports message board is not indicative of quality.

That's not to say it can't be entertaining in a Trainwreck sorta way. Look at what music and TV shows are popular. It's all crap.

Crap engages people. These threads are
the American'ss got talent of message boards. You are basically Nickelback.

[Todd4State]

While you’re running this circle jerk of a Hud thread in the ground, you need to understand something. Nobody expects a perfect candidate. But I expect the best candidate available and Hud is not that. He’s not close. He took a UNA program that was one of the best programs historically in their division. Wallace came back and had another run himself. Healy built up that Peay job from nothing before Hud got there. ULL ended in his firing. He’s nothing special. He’s what Bobby Wallace once was. That’s it. So you can carry on with this thread or one of the other 800 you start here each day, but it won’t change that. Just because he grew up a fan and was from down the road should never matter. Carry on. Hope you find a job, because you’re killing this site with your constant over-saturation of bullshit.

My issue is you have never once put who you think the best candidate is. You just criticize everyone that is put out there. And it's not just with Hud.

You can't compare Bobby Wallace to Hud based on Wallace's time at Temple. The guy pulled an 0-11 there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Wallace_(American_football)

And that's the thing that you don't seem to be getting. No one is saying that there is a perfect candidate- including Hud. That's why people are overlooking his last few years at ULL. Especially since there was a NCAA investigation going on during that time which started in 2015 and coincides with ULL starting to lose there.

[basedog]

Look at Arkansas, seems a few coaches are emerging that know one where discussing. Like I say, let's wait and see who comes calling after Thursday. Too early for a front runner.

[MrKotter]

While you’re running this circle jerk of a Hud thread in the ground, you need to understand something. Nobody expects a perfect candidate. But I expect the best candidate available and Hud is not that. He’s not close. He took a UNA program that was one of the best programs historically in their division. Wallace came back and had another run himself. Healy built up that Peay job from nothing before Hud got there. ULL ended in his firing. He’s nothing special. He’s what Bobby Wallace once was. That’s it. So you can carry on with this thread or one of the other 800 you start here each day, but it won’t change that. Just because he grew up a fan and was from down the road should never matter. Carry on. Hope you find a job, because you’re killing this site with your constant over-saturation of bullshit.

Still waiting on you to name your guy. It is easy to criticize every persons choice but when are going to have the stones to name yours? Let?s hear it since you are a genius. Got a feeling you are going to continue to hide from it.

[ShotgunDawg]

Thread length on a sports message board is not indicative of quality.

That's not to say it can't be entertaining in a Trainwreck sorta way. Look at what music and TV shows are popular. It's all crap.

Crap engages people. These threads are
the American'ss got talent of message boards. You are basically Nickelback.

Correct. Thread length is not a true sign of quality but that wasn't the accusation. The accusation was that my posts were killing the site & I would absolutely say that thread length is a sign that that most certainly isn't happening.

[Jack Lambert]

Psst Psst Gi me love you long time... Did you see the woman count coins out of her puzz in Naha. I was station at Futema

Yes and watched her sit on a tall beer bottle.

[Johnson85]

No! I believe all coaching hires are gambles. C34 might be the next Saban here. Urban Meyer might bomb here. But you still play the odds and hire Urban over C34.

Hud is far from a bad candidate. His resume is a hell of lot better than Morris' was when he got hired at Arky, and that was considered a decent hire by most national media folk and Arky fans. I would be disappointed if we hired Hud, but would soon be excited and ready to rock and roll next season with some physical Mississippi State brand football, which I agree Hud would bring back.

However, I am saying 2 things:

1) this board is ignoring all his questions. It wants to focus on his early ULL days and this season and skip the middle. That's not how this should be done; give a real reason for why then end of his ULL days isn't a MAJOR red flag (which it is), and then support him. But don't just pretend like he was set up to fail by the evil David Saunders and that excuses 3 straight losing seasons. I sound harsher on Hud than I am because I want the baord to THINK rather than just FEEL how nice it would be to have a loyal State fan as HC.

2) He does have much less of a track record so it's fair to say he could have a Saunders situation followed by 3 straight loosing seasons ahead of him, but Napier's resume is FAR better than Hud's is as far as recruiting and offensive numbers go, and he's going to have a better year this year than Hud ever had at ULL. Did Hud ever have the #1 recruiting class in the conference? Well Napier does, twice. ULL's current O blows any under Hud out of the water and that's statistics, not an opinion.

Downsides of Napier? Well he's only won immediately at 1 program, so Hud is a safer bet to be able to come in and manage our culture. He's also probably going to jump ship if he does well enough to get a blue blood offer. Lastly, his resume is short so he could have hidden flaws. But he's winning bigger than Hud, has never had a program fall apart like Hud did, puts a better offensive product on the field, and is a better recruiter, at least at ULL.

Hud may be the right choice. Napier may be Morris 2.0. But length of resume is the only thing Hud has on him- and every metric we can compare so far is better than Hud's. Does that meet your standard of "clearly better"? It does to me. I have a lot of respect for you but I think you're using your heart and not your head a little too much here. And I agree, it's a much better story to have a MS fan "come home" than it is to have some dude with zero ties to us come in. But at the end of the day what matters is getting the best coach for us

People are ignoring Hud's last few years at ULL the same way people are ignoring the lack of track record with Napier.

Again, through two years at ULL, Hud was more impressive because he brought that program up from the dead. If Hud had gotten another G5 job instead of Austin Peay and turned in a performance like this year, I think he'd be as much of a slam dunk hire as we could realistically get. As it is, it seems pretty clear he is fanastic at DII and FCS level. How good do you feel about that translating to P5? And would you rather take a guy like Hud who has the blemish on his resume that is counterbalanced by consistent winning in lower levels versus a guy like Napier who is off to a great start and has a good resume as far as his non-head coach experience, but doesn't have a long enough track record to really know what you are getting as a head coach.

I'm fine with either and basically indifferent, I think. SOmetimes I talk myself into Hud being a safer choice b/c his longer head coaching record means he's a surer bet even if his flameout at ULL means he's probably not going to be a game changer. Sometimes I think the DII and FCS coaching is just not as relevant and doesn't make him any safer than somebody like Napier. I would definitely be willing to trade theoretical upside in exchange for a higher floor b/c we can't afford two bad hires in a row, but I don't think you can really assure yourself of a higher floor, so I don't guess it matters.

I will say that I'm illogically against Norvell. Not sure why. Won't be upset if we hire him or anything, just have a bad feeling about him despite him probably having as good of a track record as we're going to get with four good years at G5.

[Pipedream]

People are ignoring Hud's last few years at ULL the same way people are ignoring the lack of track record with Napier.

Again, through two years at ULL, Hud was more impressive because he brought that program up from the dead. If Hud had gotten another G5 job instead of Austin Peay and turned in a performance like this year, I think he'd be as much of a slam dunk hire as we could realistically get. As it is, it seems pretty clear he is fanastic at DII and FCS level. How good do you feel about that translating to P5? And would you rather take a guy like Hud who has the blemish on his resume that is counterbalanced by consistent winning in lower levels versus a guy like Napier who is off to a great start and has a good resume as far as his non-head coach experience, but doesn't have a long enough track record to really know what you are getting as a head coach.

I'm fine with either and basically indifferent, I think. SOmetimes I talk myself into Hud being a safer choice b/c his longer head coaching record means he's a surer bet even if his flameout at ULL means he's probably not going to be a game changer. Sometimes I think the DII and FCS coaching is just not as relevant and doesn't make him any safer than somebody like Napier. I would definitely be willing to trade theoretical upside in exchange for a higher floor b/c we can't afford two bad hires in a row, but I don't think you can really assure yourself of a higher floor, so I don't guess it matters.

I will say that I'm illogically against Norvell. Not sure why. Won't be upset if we hire him or anything, just have a bad feeling about him despite him probably having as good of a track record as we're going to get with four good years at G5.

Just wanna clear one thing up here-3 years prior to Hud, ULL avg SRS was -11.38. 3 years prior to Napier, ULL avg SRS was -10.72. They inherited incredibly similar quality teams and Napier has already surpassed the first two years performance wise of Hud.

[ShotgunDawg]

Just wanna clear one thing up here-3 years prior to Hud, ULL avg SRS was -11.38. 3 years prior to Napier, ULL avg SRS was -10.72. They inherited incredibly similar quality teams and Napier has already surpassed the first two years performance wise of Hud.

I think they've made some pretty dramatic facility improvements at ULL over the past 5 years or so. That may have made it much easier to recruit.

[Pipedream]

I think they've made some pretty dramatic facility improvements at ULL over the past 5 years or so. That may have made it much easier to recruit.

May have. But that's more forward facing than retrospective. Tangibly, the two coaches inherited a very similar quality of team. Both of them did very well in their first two years. One of them has done extremely well and turned this years team in to the best in school history (Napier).

[Johnson85]

May have. But that's more forward facing than retrospective. Tangibly, the two coaches inherited a very similar quality of team. Both of them did very well in their first two years. One of them has done extremely well and turned this years team in to the best in school history (Napier).

I don't think they inherited different teams, but I think they inherited different programs. ULL had had some minimal success before Hud got there. In the ten years prior to Hud, which were also their first ten years in the Sunbelt, ULL average 4.4 wins a year and won 6 games four years (they also only played 11 games in 3 of the ten years). Before that they spent 5 years as an independent, winning 5, 1, 2, 2, and 1 games with 11 game schedules. The did have some moderate success in the Big West Conference for three years prior to that, winning 8, then 6, then 6 games (with the first two years being conference co-champions). But a pretty bleak history.

In the 7 years before Napier got there, ULL won an average of 7.3 games. Even when the train ran off the track, ULL still averaged 5 wins a season and was at the pre-HUD sunbelt highwater mark of 6 wins just two years before Napier took over.

Granted you also have to take into account probation, and there are a lot of other things going on in this time like conference realignments and the general distancing of P5 programs from G5 programs b/c of TV money. But all in all, just looking at it superficially as far as program prestige , I think Napier walked into a better situation than Hud.

ETA: Hud's overall winning percentage of 57.3% is also more than 50% better than the overall winning percentage in the ten years prior to him getting there (37.6%).

[MedDawg]

Just wanna clear one thing up here-3 years prior to Hud, ULL avg SRS was -11.38. 3 years prior to Napier, ULL avg SRS was -10.72. They inherited incredibly similar quality teams and Napier has already surpassed the first two years performance wise of Hud.

No he hasn't. Napier is 16-9 at ULL and Hud was 18-8 his first two years at ULL.

[bulldawg28]

No he hasn't. Napier is 16-9 at ULL and Hud was 18-8 his first two years at ULL.

It's more impressive from Napier coming off probation imo

[Pipedream]

No he hasn't. Napier is 16-9 at ULL and Hud was 18-8 his first two years at ULL.

This is the issue with counting wins without context. Napiers first 2 schedules were tougher than Hud's first two. There are metrics that take that into account like SRS. Not all 6-6 records are created equally. Napier has their best team in school history this year and it's 3 times as good as their second best.

[MedDawg]

This is the issue with counting wins without context. Napiers first 2 schedules were tougher than Hud's first two. There are metrics that take that into account like SRS. Not all 6-6 records are created equally. Napier has their best team in school history this year and it's 3 times as good as their second best.

Ok, I can see that.

If we are using objective ratings and not records:

In 2018 State finished #8 in the Sagarin ratings which was better than any Mullen or Sherrill year. Which makes Moorhead our best coach since 1941 or maybe ever.

[Pipedream]

Ok, I can see that.

If we are using objective ratings and not records:

In 2018 State finished #8 in the Sagarin ratings which was better than any Mullen or Sherrill year. Which makes Moorhead our best coach since 1941 or maybe ever.

Just using apples to apples, the SRS system had 2018 as the 9th best team in school history, behind two Mullen teams (14 and 15). It was better than any Sherrill season according to that ranking.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/mississippi-state/

[MedDawg]

Just using apples to apples, the SRS system had 2018 as the 9th best team in school history, behind two Mullen teams (14 and 15). It was better than any Sherrill season according to that ranking.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/mississippi-state/

Interesting. BTW, I'm not really defending Moorhead. I'm sort of ok if he stays but I'm also excited about getting a new coach if he leaves or is fired. I would be happy with Hud or Napier, but would rather Moorhead stay than hire Chizik.

I supported Moorhead until the UT loss. However, like UK and UF last season, UT has turned out better than everyone thought, so I'm not on the side that Moorhead HAS to go.

[Pipedream]

Interesting. BTW, I'm not really defending Moorhead. I'm sort of ok if he stays but I'm also excited about getting a new coach if he leaves or is fired. I would be happy with Hud or Napier, but would rather Moorhead stay than hire Chizik.

I supported Moorhead until the UT loss. However, like UK and UF last season, UT has turned out better than everyone thought, so I'm not on the side that Moorhead HAS to go.

I think it's a situation where he's not a bad coach, he's certainly not a bad guy, the fit was just never right. The system, his personality, his culture just never quite felt right. He needed to come out and show that he knew what he was doing this year and unfortunately with all of the suspensions and injuries, that wasn't in the cards. I think normally we'd give him another year, but I really believe that he realizes the fit isn't right either and he's found a parachute to another job. I still see a scenario where if he wins tomorrow night and gets some people back in his boat he might get a third year, but the tea leaves say otherwise.

[bulldog20]

I think it's a situation where he's not a bad coach, he's certainly not a bad guy, the fit was just never right. The system, his personality, his culture just never quite felt right. He needed to come out and show that he knew what he was doing this year and unfortunately with all of the suspensions and injuries, that wasn't in the cards. I think normally we'd give him another year, but I really believe that he realizes the fit isn't right either and he's found a parachute to another job. I still see a scenario where if he wins tomorrow night and gets some people back in his boat he might get a third year, but the tea leaves say otherwise.

I agree with all you said. I think if we would have hired Moorhead this season vs last year it would be different too. You could excuse a lot in that first year since all the circumstances he's faced have to some degree affected the team. With our basically NFL defense last year, tons of coaches would have put their pride aside and done what was necessary to adapt and win 9-10 games minimum.