Hud Question

[ShotgunDawg]

For those that know, what was Hud and Mullen's relationship like?

Did Hud think he was a better coach than Mullen?

Anyone have some insight here?

[gtowndawg]

I don't know but that's two Alpha Dogs. I'm not surprised they could not co exist. At the time Hud was also a proven head coach so I'm sure he thought he was better that Mullen.

[Schultzy]

Mullen was demeaning to him and other coaches as well, especially in the early years.

[Jack Lambert]

Mullen was demeaning to him and other coaches as well, especially in the early years.

Mullen went through some coaches until he either learned or found coaches he jelled with.

[Homedawg]

To say they don't care for one another is an understatement

[Cooterpoot]

Megan wouldn’t even kiss him on the mouth.

[ShotgunDawg]

Megan wouldn’t even kiss him on the mouth.

Done. I want him.

[Jack Lambert]

Done. I want him.

It's a wonder she doesn't break face bones with those teeth when she kisses. She's probably a nice lady but those choppers freak me out. It's a wonder she hasn't been hit in the head for the Ivory.

[Dawgtini]

Megan wouldn’t even kiss him on the mouth.

lol +1 Rep Given

[KOdawg1]

To say they don't care for one another is an understatement
Sign him up

[Tbonewannabe]

It's a wonder she doesn't break face bones with those teeth when she kisses. She's probably a nice lady but those choppers freak me out. It's a wonder she hasn't been hit in the head for the Ivory.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Jack Lambert again.

Thanks for the laugh.

[Tbonewannabe]

For those that know, what was Hud and Mullen's relationship like?

Did Hud think he was a better coach than Mullen?

Anyone have some insight here?

Didn't Byrne basically hire Hud as OC and that was one of the deals with incoming head coaches? It seems like Mullen was basically told Hud was on his staff and maybe didn't really like the idea of a successful head coach already on his staff.

[Dawgtini]

Didn't Byrne basically hire Hud as OC and that was one of the deals with incoming head coaches? It seems like Mullen was basically told Hud was on his staff and maybe didn't really like the idea of a successful head coach already on his staff.

Yes. And had Mullen been a JoMo hire Hud was there to take over. Byrne was a sharp one.

[DownwardDawg]

Hated each other. Hud has always thought/knew he is better than Mullen. He would work his ass off to prove it too if we give him that shot.

[Coach34]

Mullen treated him poorly because Byrne hired him. Mullen felt threatened by him. Always felt like his possible successor was working for him.

[DogsofAnarchy]

His is a good coach and he is definitely better than what we have now!!

[StarkVegasSteve]

So Greg Byrne thought he was a good coach?? Hire him now and see if he'll coach Thursday. Hell he already knows the playbook. We can just run what we ran against Auburn.

[Todd4State]

Mullen treated him poorly because Byrne hired him. Mullen felt threatened by him. Always felt like his possible successor was working for him.

I'm not sure why he really cared since he didn't plan on staying that long anyway.

Probably also pissed that he took Billy's spot on the staff initially.

[DownwardDawg]

I met Mullen and Hud the same year. Spent several hours with them. It was obvious to everyone in my family who the better coach and person was. Hint..... it wasn’t Dan.
I was excited about Mullen. After that day, I knew we had hired the lesser of the two.

[Cooterpoot]

If Hud was better than Dan, he’d already be a P5 HC. That’s simply laughable. But he’s at Austin Peay after screwing up and getting fired at ULL. Damn this Hud legend grows by the day. We’ve passed on him twice. Think about that.

[R2Dawg]

If Hud was better than Dan, he’d already be a P5 HC. That’s simply laughable. But he’s at Austin Peay after screwing up and getting fired at ULL. Damn this Hud legend grows by the day. We’ve passed on him twice. Think about that.

I don't know if Hud is better than Dan or even how good Hud is but just because he isn't at a power 5 doesn't mean jack. There are lots of great, great coaches at high school and lower college levels that never get the chance to move up or just like where they are. Same in any line of work. Just because everyone doesn't want to be CEO doesn't mean they are not good at the lower levels.

Mullen got where he did by riding Urbans coat tails and then winding up at UF as coord. MSU made Dan by giving him a shot and letting him learn on the fly.

[Really Clark?]

I'm not sure why he really cared since he didn't plan on staying that long anyway.

Probably also pissed that he took Billy's spot on the staff initially.

Gonzales was not leaving with Mullen, don?t know where you got that. He stayed at Florida until he got the WR coach/passing game coord at LSU. Stay there 2 years the. Became Co-OC at Illinois. He was never a part of the plan to come with Mullen. He hoped to get the OC at Florida but that went to Addazio and he left the following year in 2010

[Cooterpoot]

I don't know if Hud is better than Dan or even how good Hud is but just because he isn't at a power 5 doesn't mean jack. There are lots of great, great coaches at high school and lower college levels that never get the chance to move up or just like where they are. Same in any line of work. Just because everyone doesn't want to be CEO doesn't mean they are not good at the lower levels.

Mullen got where he did by riding Urbans coat tails and then winding up at UF as coord. MSU made Dan by giving him a shot and letting him learn on the fly.

And we hired him twice. He could?ve stayed and been the next guy in line both times possibly. But he chose to leave, so I?m guessing he knows there?s no HC job here for him. But, boosters got him the jobs here. Maybe those same people hire him. And no, if he was an incredible HC candidate, he?d already be somewhere big. Fact is, he?s blown that too by hiring a known cheat. So, he?s back in the small school ranks trying to prove he can handle things right.

[DownwardDawg]

And we hired him twice. He could?ve stayed and been the next guy in line both times possibly. But he chose to leave, so I?m guessing he knows there?s no HC job here for him. But, boosters got him the jobs here. Maybe those same people hire him. And no, if he was an incredible HC candidate, he?d already be somewhere big. Fact is, he?s blown that too by hiring a known cheat. So, he?s back in the small school ranks trying to prove he can handle things right.

You’re about to be sad. Really sad while were averaging 9-10 wins a year. You’ll be a sad MF while the rest of us celebrate winning regardless of who our coach is.

[DownwardDawg]

If Hud was better than Dan, he?d already be a P5 HC. That?s simply laughable. But he?s at Austin Peay after screwing up and getting fired at ULL. Damn this Hud legend grows by the day. We?ve passed on him twice. Think about that.

Since you loved Dan so much, get ready. Hud will win way more than Danny boy. There ain?t much doubt about that.

[msstate7]

You’re about to be sad. Really sad while were averaging 9-10 wins a year. You’ll be a sad MF while the rest of us celebrate winning regardless of who our coach is.

9-10 wins a year? Boy, I don't know bout that...

[Todd4State]

And we hired him twice. He could?ve stayed and been the next guy in line both times possibly. But he chose to leave, so I?m guessing he knows there?s no HC job here for him. But, boosters got him the jobs here. Maybe those same people hire him. And no, if he was an incredible HC candidate, he?d already be somewhere big. Fact is, he?s blown that too by hiring a known cheat. So, he?s back in the small school ranks trying to prove he can handle things right.

Except for the fact that the biggest reason why Byrne didn't go ahead and hire him as the HC in the first place was because he had no FBS experience at that time. And this also around the time that Raffo didn't get hired in part for the same reason. So, he leaves to get some head coaching experience and did well until they got on probation because of his friend who got caught in the crossfire of the Ole Miss investigation. Meanwhile he gets cleared by the NCAA, comes back to MSU and then goes to Austin Peay where he just led them to their first OVC championship since 1977.

You can't criticize someone for leaving to better themselves and then wanting to come back as the CEO when that was precisely the reason WHY they left in the first place. Just like Hugh Freeze left Ole Miss as an assistant for Arkansas State to get head coaching experience.

But hey- if we actually hired Dabo Swinney or Nick Saban you would find reasons why they aren't good enough for us either so it would be really nice if you actually threw some names out there instead of bitching about every coach anyone brings up.

[Todd4State]

9-10 wins a year? Boy, I don't know bout that...

I bet we would get back to 8 consistently pretty quickly though. With some 10 win seasons mixed in. And maybe actually get some upward trajectory with our football program.

[dawgday166]

And we hired him twice. He could?ve stayed and been the next guy in line both times possibly. But he chose to leave, so I?m guessing he knows there?s no HC job here for him. But, boosters got him the jobs here. Maybe those same people hire him. And no, if he was an incredible HC candidate, he?d already be somewhere big. Fact is, he?s blown that too by hiring a known cheat. So, he?s back in the small school ranks trying to prove he can handle things right.

Ok .. I'll buy all of that. Don't know all those circumstances and I still would be good with him getting the job if that happens. If he doesn't it probably means he burnt some bridges with what you say above. The biggest that sticks out to me tho is him leaving when he could've been in line for the job. The know cheat .. not sure of circumstances there but lots of guys get 2nd chances ... or maybe that was Saunders' 3rd or 4th chance. I don't know.

[Huntsville Dawg]

I have always been on board with hiring a coach who wants to be at MSU for the long haul. If a coach is good and they leave after a few years then we just have to restart the process again, and we all know how coaching searches can go....

[Dawgcap]

Seriously. We should pray for 7-8. The SEC aim studying us in a consistent 8-10 win right now. If anyone believes that they gonna be sad. We are lower tier SEC West team. Our goal should be slowly moving up the pecking order. We ain’t got the tv eyes to be above that right now. When we made a slight run in 14 the calls sent us back. No one complains about calls now because they have us in our place. We are at best 4-6 in the West because of talent but mainly because we don’t bring eyes to the tv viewership

[Todd4State]

Seriously. We should pray for 7-8. The SEC aim studying us in a consistent 8-10 win right now. If anyone believes that they gonna be sad. We are lower tier SEC West team. Our goal should be slowly moving up the pecking order. We ain’t got the tv eyes to be above that right now. When we made a slight run in 14 the calls sent us back. No one complains about calls now because they have us in our place. We are at best 4-6 in the West because of talent but mainly because we don’t bring eyes to the tv viewership

The way to get above that is to recruit well. Hud can do that. And then either develop or coach up the talent. I feel like Hud can coach up talent.

[ShotgunDawg]

And we hired him twice. He could?ve stayed and been the next guy in line both times possibly. But he chose to leave, so I?m guessing he knows there?s no HC job here for him. But, boosters got him the jobs here. Maybe those same people hire him. And no, if he was an incredible HC candidate, he?d already be somewhere big. Fact is, he?s blown that too by hiring a known cheat. So, he?s back in the small school ranks trying to prove he can handle things right.

You're that guy that thinks he has real insight but over values his own information while not believing that people can learn from their mistakes and become better for them.

You made your mind up on Hud a long time ago and thus won't let the narrative die. An irrelevant narrative at that.

You don't talk about his coaching ability. Only the fact that he hired a cheater. Do you think he'd do that again? If so, why?

If not, then why does it matter what happened at ULL when he was cleared?

[ShotgunDawg]

Ok .. I'll buy all of that. Don't know all those circumstances and I still would be good with him getting the job if that happens. If he doesn't it probably means he burnt some bridges with what you say above. The biggest that sticks out to me tho is him leaving when he could've been in line for the job. The know cheat .. not sure of circumstances there but lots of guys get 2nd chances ... or maybe that was Saunders' 3rd or 4th chance. I don't know.

You're really upset that he left for a D1 head coaching job when he was the WR coach, not an OC, a WR coach at MSU?

So you expected him to stay here for 9 years under Mullen in hopes that he MAY get an interview?

What a stupid opinion.

[dawgday166]

You're really upset that he left for a D1 head coaching job when he was the WR coach, not an OC, a WR coach at MSU?

So you expected him to stay here for 9 years under Mullen in hopes that he MAY get an interview?

What a stupid opinion.

That's not what I said you damn idiot. I said I can understand why he might've burned some bridges by doing all that.

Personally, I don't care about all of that. If the guy can coach, get a good staff and players to follow him, and can recruit and run a program, then I want him.

[ShotgunDawg]

That's not what I said you damn idiot. I said I can understand why he might've burned some bridges by doing all that.

Personally, I don't care about all of that. If the guy can coach, get a good staff and players to follow him, and can recruit and run a program, then I want him.

Anyone that holds anything against Hud because he left a WR position coaching job for a D1 head job is an idiot. If that wasn't you, then you're not an idiot.

[Dawgfan77]

I like HUD a great deal. What?s odd is that yes he has a down cycle at ULL his last few years but was about to turn it around 15 was bad then in 16 he went 6-7 and with a young team. In 17 they went 5-7 he was fired mainly due to the NCAA stuff and three losing seasons. In comes Napier and wins with HUD recruits. They are SR laden this year all those guys were signed by HUD.

So in closing I say this I like Napier. But let me ask the board a question is he a good coach or rising in the rank due to his coaching acumen or is it because s the players he inherited from Mark Hudspeth?

[MrKotter]

You're that guy that thinks he has real insight but over values his own information while not believing that people can learn from their mistakes and become better for them.

You made your mind up on Hud a long time ago and thus won't let the narrative die. An irrelevant narrative at that.

You don't talk about his coaching ability. Only the fact that he hired a cheater. Do you think he'd do that again? If so, why?

If not, then why does it matter what happened at ULL when he was cleared?

That?s not CP at all. He is just stupid and wants to argue. He argues every coach that is brought up sucks while never once attaching himself to a single one. He does not have the courage to say his choice because he does not have the backbone to handle any possible ridicule

[CovertDawg]

You would have thought Hud left Lafayette by his own choice reading these boards. He would basically be like if Ole Miss hired Jay Hopson. Solid coach but low ceiling.

[ShotgunDawg]

You would have thought Hud left Lafayette by his own choice reading these boards. He would basically be like if Ole Miss hired Jay Hopson. Solid coach but low ceiling.

Why a low ceiling?

[Cooterpoot]

Since you loved Dan so much, get ready. Hud will win way more than Danny boy. There ain?t much doubt about that.

Ok...you must be his dad.

[Cooterpoot]

Except for the fact that the biggest reason why Byrne didn't go ahead and hire him as the HC in the first place was because he had no FBS experience at that time. And this also around the time that Raffo didn't get hired in part for the same reason. So, he leaves to get some head coaching experience and did well until they got on probation because of his friend who got caught in the crossfire of the Ole Miss investigation. Meanwhile he gets cleared by the NCAA, comes back to MSU and then goes to Austin Peay where he just led them to their first OVC championship since 1977.

You can't criticize someone for leaving to better themselves and then wanting to come back as the CEO when that was precisely the reason WHY they left in the first place. Just like Hugh Freeze left Ole Miss as an assistant for Arkansas State to get head coaching experience.

But hey- if we actually hired Dabo Swinney or Nick Saban you would find reasons why they aren't good enough for us either so it would be really nice if you actually threw some names out there instead of bitching about every coach anyone brings up.

He was our backup plan 10 years ago. Only because of the boosters pushing him and because our program hasn’t really grown to where we are today. We don’t have to settle for Hud now. The guy has been coaching for two decades and has never been a P5 head coach. That says a lot.

[CovertDawg]

Why a low ceiling?


He had 7 years at Lafayette, and yes they had a miserable program prior, but all he had to show for it was some New Orleans Bowls and vacated wins...and he had three losing seasons in a row to finish. We have people wanting to blame Joe for tutorgate yet want to give Hud a free pass for vacated wins.

[Cooterpoot]

I bet we would get back to 8 consistently pretty quickly though. With some 10 win seasons mixed in. And maybe actually get some upward trajectory with our football program.

Any decent coach can win 6+ games a year at State now. We set them up with a positive schedule and with the 12th game, it’s not that hard. Hud is such a false legend here for some reason. And no one has anything to support the fact he’d be a great SEC coach. He got fired at his only big school shot. And I constantly hear about ego on here in reference to Moorhead. Guess what, you haven’t seen ego until you get Hud here. Then you get the swapping blood deal and weight lifting competitions at ULL. I have no doubt he could win 6 games here. But so could the guys with a better job history. Hud is the cheap and easy route.

[ShotgunDawg]

He had 7 years at Lafayette, and yes they had a miserable program prior, but all he had to show for it was some New Orleans Bowls and vacated wins...and he had three losing seasons in a row to finish. We have people wanting to blame Joe for tutorgate yet want to give Hud a free pass for vacated wins.

So regardless of all his other championships, you're stuck on that and don't believe people can evolve and learn from their mistakes?

Do you think his downfall at ULL was more about his coaching ability or the NCAA investigation?

I don't think you're wrong for being concerned about that but you have to decide if you think it's a deal breaker

I don't.

[ShotgunDawg]

He was our backup plan 10 years ago. Only because of the boosters pushing him and because our program hasn’t really grown to where we are today. We don’t have to settle for Hud now. The guy has been coaching for two decades and has never been a P5 head coach. That says a lot.

So did Vick Schaffer. Was an assistant at A&M for goodness sakes.

It's valid point but there are numerous reasons people never get opportunities other than their ability.

[Coursesuper]

So did Vick Schaffer. Was an assistant at A&M for goodness sakes.

It's valid point but there are numerous reasons people never get opportunities other than their ability.

Vic failed at Sam Houston State before going to Arkansas then to A&M as an Asst. before striking gold with MSU.

[Pipedream]

Hud career winning % (on field): 66.9%
Moorhead career winning %: 68%

I don't see the allure other than him being the easy choice and everyone loves the hometown boy story. Just get the best coach/fit available. If a guy leaves after 5 years that's okay. That means you got 5 good years out of an upwardly mobile employee. Everyone is so freaked out about having to hire someone. It's not that big of a deal. Happens every year. Napier is a guy on the way up. His team this season is the best in their school history and it's by a WIDE margin over one of Hud's teams. He can recruit (back to back number 1 classes in the Sun Belt) and runs the same power spread that everyone loves so much. Give me the guy on the way up over the guy that has the cinderella story. Narratives are for movies. Just get the best coach available. Don't overcomplicate it.

[ShotgunDawg]

Vic failed at Sam Houston State before going to Arkansas then to A&M as an Asst. before striking gold with MSU.

Well there you go. Even better. He failed at a mid major first.

Good coaches learn. Nobody knows everything the first. There is some trial and error in coaching.

My thing with Hud is that he wins everywhere he's gone. He's won championships

When people start winning at different schools, it tells me that they are really good at implementing a culture and plan. They aren't just living off past successes.

[ShotgunDawg]

Hud career winning % (on field): 66.9%
Moorhead career winning %: 68%


This is so incredibly shallow and irrelevant that it's not even worth debating.

[Pipedream]

This is so incredibly shallow and irrelevant that it's not even worth debating.

So records are now irrelevant? You can't be successful without winning. That's literally the determining factor.

[RiverCityDawg]

So records are now irrelevant? You can't be successful without winning. That's literally the determining factor.

If you really believed that's all there is to it, you wouldn't be for firing Joe.

By the way, I'm with you on Napier over Hud, but think both could be successful here.

[Pipedream]

If you really believed that's all there is to it, you wouldn't be for firing Joe.

By the way, I'm with you on Napier over Hud, but think both could be successful here.

I don't, but it's the best barometer. I think incorporating the spread and cross referencing the w/l is the best way to track a coach because its performance with added perspective. Hud has only coached the power 5 for 2 years, both at State. He's never been a P5 coordinator. I just think his resume is a little short on diversity and big game/stakes experience. I think he's a fine coach, but there's easily 3,4,5 guys that should get hired in front of him.

[Johnson85]

Hud career winning % (on field): 66.9%
Moorhead career winning %: 68%

I don't see the allure other than him being the easy choice and everyone loves the hometown boy story. Just get the best coach/fit available. If a guy leaves after 5 years that's okay. That means you got 5 good years out of an upwardly mobile employee. Everyone is so freaked out about having to hire someone. It's not that big of a deal. Happens every year. Napier is a guy on the way up. His team this season is the best in their school history and it's by a WIDE margin over one of Hud's teams. He can recruit (back to back number 1 classes in the Sun Belt) and runs the same power spread that everyone loves so much. Give me the guy on the way up over the guy that has the cinderella story. Narratives are for movies. Just get the best coach available. Don't overcomplicate it.

Napier has had a decent season and a good season as head coach. That's not much of a track record. I'm not opposed to Napier. The way the market has evolved MSU is going to have to take a G5 coach with a short track record, a P5 coordinator, or a retread unless the stars align like they did with Howland. But Napier doesn't have much of a track record and it's foolish to think that two good seasons means he's a great coach. Lots of coaches have two good years and then flame out. Lot's of coaches have down years and go on to be really good. There is more luck to it than people like to admit. One Dak can completely change a coach's tenure since most tenures don't last that long now. A couple of team leaders that are leaders in the wrong direction, but not so bad that a coach can cut them loose, can derail a couple of seasons.

[Pipedream]

Napier has had a decent season and a good season as head coach. That's not much of a track record. I'm not opposed to Napier. The way the market has evolved MSU is going to have to take a G5 coach with a short track record, a P5 coordinator, or a retread unless the stars align like they did with Howland. But Napier doesn't have much of a track record and it's foolish to think that two good seasons means he's a great coach. Lots of coaches have two good years and then flame out. Lot's of coaches have down years and go on to be really good. There is more luck to it than people like to admit. One Dak can completely change a coach's tenure since most tenures don't last that long now. A couple of team leaders that are leaders in the wrong direction, but not so bad that a coach can cut them loose, can derail a couple of seasons.

I don't disagree with the general idea here, but this is the most interesting thing/stat about Napier-ULL has been in what is now called FBS since 2001. There's a metric called SRS which evaluates teams historical strength with 0 being a historically average team. Since that time, ULL has fielded 2 teams that were above 0 in SRS. One of them was Hud's 2012 team at +3.45, which at the time was the best team that program has ever had. ULL this year under Napier is currently at +10.4. Not only has he put together their best team ever, but this team is nearly 3X as good as the 2nd best team they've ever had. I find that pretty amazing and impressive.

[Johnson85]

I don't disagree with the general idea here, but this is the most interesting thing/stat about Napier-ULL has been in what is now called FBS since 2001. There's a metric called SRS which evaluates teams historical strength with 0 being a historically average team. Since that time, ULL has fielded 2 teams that were above 0 in SRS. One of them was Hud's 2012 team at +3.45, which at the time was the best team that program has ever had. ULL this year under Napier is currently at +10.4. Not only has he put together their best team ever, but this team is nearly 3X as good as the 2nd best team they've ever had. I find that pretty amazing and impressive.

That's a really good point in Napier's favor. I am just nervous about getting too excited about what a guy does two years and giving a guy a contract based on what might prove to be an outlier for him. Again, probably not something we're going to be able to avoid unless there is a Satterfield out there that hasn't come up yet or unless we're willing to go with a guy with a longer track record that also has some blemishes. Norvell has an unblemished four year track record but of course also took over a program that was humming along. Still, seems to have held steady or improved over 4 years, which is something. Outside of him, everybody is either potentially a flash in the pan, a coach with some significant blemishes, or a coach with no real blemish but that hasn't taken off where he is. But that's the nature of a coaching search if you're not a blue blood and to an extent even if you are.

[Pipedream]

That's a really good point in Napier's favor. I am just nervous about getting too excited about what a guy does two years and giving a guy a contract based on what might prove to be an outlier for him. Again, probably not something we're going to be able to avoid unless there is a Satterfield out there that hasn't come up yet or unless we're willing to go with a guy with a longer track record that also has some blemishes. Norvell has an unblemished four year track record but of course also took over a program that was humming along. Still, seems to have held steady or improved over 4 years, which is something. Outside of him, everybody is either potentially a flash in the pan, a coach with some significant blemishes, or a coach with no real blemish but that hasn't taken off where he is. But that's the nature of a coaching search if you're not a blue blood and to an extent even if you are.

The only drawbacks I have for Norvell are his defense, which during his tenure has been downright bad-78th avg ppg/60th avg ypp and whatever skeletons he has in the closet of his personal life. His recruiting probably isn't as strong as Napiers. Napiers defense in year 1 was horrendous, but they're quite good this year-14th in ppg, 35 in ypp. Full disclosure, Norvells 19 D is by far his best-they're 48th in ppg and 33rd ypp-so there's been some improvement there.

[AROB44]

Mullen treated him poorly because Byrne hired him. Mullen felt threatened by him. Always felt like his possible successor was working for him.

Actually, this makes the most sense.

[DelBocaVista]

In early October, I mentioned Hud as a possible replacement to Joe and most thought that was a crazy idea. On Friday, we will see who was crazy.

As it was said in "The Wire", we all have a role to play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLa5Bfw2cnA

[Really Clark?]

In early October, I mentioned Hud as a possible replacement to Joe and most thought that was a crazy idea. On Friday, we will see who was crazy.

As it was said in "The Wire", we all have a role to play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLa5Bfw2cnA

You mentioned it where?

[CovertDawg]

If we have reached the point where we are in a hurry to hire Hud then I might just go sail around the globe for 15 years and hope that Dak has an interest in coaching college football when he retires.