The Entire Point of Hiring An AD Like John Cohen...

[ShotgunDawg]

The entire point of hiring an ex coach like John Cohen is so that hirings & firings of coaches & the evaluations of programs can be done with the addition of experience & instincts on such things.

I continue to see posts about how MSU can't fire a coach that goes to back to back bowl games & that, if Joe beats Ole Miss he'll be back. Those two things may or may not be true, but it's important to realize that the entire point of hiring a guy like John Cohen as our AD is for exact circumstances like this. The entire point of giving a successfull coach that job is so that MSU isn't beholden & imprisoned by only objective data. The entire point is so that in addition to objective data MSU has a decision maker that has been in the foxholes of competition, has hired & fired baseball coaches for his entire professional career, & has an instinct about whether things are moving in the right direction or not, the pulse of a team, & ability to project what the future of the program will look like under the current regime vs what it would look like under a new regime.

If Cohen is just beholden to 6 wins & a bowl game, then we may as well as hired someone that was an awesome financial guy or marketer. Hiring a former coach as your AD would be completely pointless in that case.

Nobody said it was going to be easy for Cohen, but his skill set was hired for this exact reason. To make a judgement based on experience & instincts while understanding the objective data & odds associated.

[TrapGame]

Just b/c we get into a Thunderdome fight with ole miss and exit the victor means shit. Beating ole miss means nothing other than beating your in-state rival and going bowling. Beating a top 25 team with a pulse would have been a job saver. If the rumors are true about locker room tensions caused by Moorhead and how he was told several times to toughen up practices I doubt winning Thursday night is going to matter on him staying.

[sandjunky]

He fired Cannizzaro quickly; didn’t hire Gary after the improbable run to CWS where he was the emotional favorite of some; hired who he thought was best to lead baseball

[Lord McBuckethead]

Cohen has a tough job. This post isn't discussing the issues, its basically painting the situation without discussion. This post, along with the shitty outcome with our football program are not dissimilar. Let Cohen do his job, and stop pretending you understand what is happening or should happen behind the scenes.

[Todd4State]

He fired Cannizzaro quickly; didn’t hire Gary after the improbable run to CWS where he was the emotional favorite of some; hired who he thought was best to lead baseball

Those are baseball moves. Which is his wheelhouse.

[Coursesuper]

One day y’all are going to figure out who actually makes these kind of decisions. Until the carry on.

[timotheus]

ding ding ding

[msbulldog]

Let Cohen do his job.

[WSOPdawg]

One day y’all are going to figure out who actually makes these kind of decisions. Until the carry on.

^^^^ What he said.

[ShotgunDawg]

One day y’all are going to figure out who actually makes these kind of decisions. Until the carry on.

You continue to say this & everyone realizes it's the guys with the money. Everyone knows that.

But even those people need a decision maker that has credible instincts about such situations

We aren't stupid.

[timotheus]

And if John makes a stupid move by keeping Joe and next season end up much like this one then John will be the one whom the cigar boys will want axed. John understands this very very well.

[Pipedream]

The entire point of hiring an ex coach like John Cohen is so that hirings & firings of coaches & the evaluations of programs can be done with the addition of experience & instincts on such things.

I continue to see posts about how MSU can't fire a coach that goes to back to back bowl games & that, if Joe beats Ole Miss he'll be back. Those two things may or may not be true, but it's important to realize that the entire point of hiring a guy like John Cohen as our AD is for exact circumstances like this. The entire point of giving a successfull coach that job is so that MSU isn't beholden & imprisoned by only objective data. The entire point is so that in addition to objective data MSU has a decision maker that has been in the foxholes of competition, has hired & fired baseball coaches for his entire professional career, & has an instinct about whether things are moving in the right direction or not, the pulse of a team, & ability to project what the future of the program will look like under the current regime vs what it would look like under a new regime.

If Cohen is just beholden to 6 wins & a bowl game, then we may as well as hired someone that was an awesome financial guy or marketer. Hiring a former coach as your AD would be completely pointless in that case.

Nobody said it was going to be easy for Cohen, but his skill set was hired for this exact reason. To make a judgement based on experience & instincts while understanding the objective data & odds associated.

Cohen has been basically removed from this process. He had his chance to make a hire on his terms and bungled it. Then went on Finebaum and sounded like a bumbling damn fool. The $ guys will make this decision and the decision on who to hire next.

[Coursesuper]

You continue to say this & everyone realizes it's the guys with the money. Everyone knows that.

But even those people need a decision maker that has credible instincts about such situations

We aren't stupid.

Come on, this isn't a win the argument contest, I never even insinuated that anyone was stupid. Your assumption of how this works is incorrect and you are perpetuating a false narrative, I cant blame you, you don't know how it really works so you are putting out the best info you believe is correct. But its not, the guys that are running this both university and private don't need a decision maker either. Carry on.

[ShotgunDawg]

Come on, this isn't a win the argument contest, I never even insinuated that anyone was stupid. Your assumption of how this works is incorrect and you are perpetuating a false narrative, I cant blame you, you don't know how it really works so you are putting out the best info you believe is correct. But its not, the guys that are running this both university and private don't need a decision maker either. Carry on.

So it was kind of a waste to hire an AD with Cohen's skill set?

[Coursesuper]

So it was kind of a waste to hire an AD with Cohen's skill set?

What skill set, that he was able to kiss the proper asses to get himself shoved in the AD seat by Stricks backers in pretty much a coup.

It's better to just be silent and let those around you think you're and idiot than to open your mouth and confirm it for all to see and hear. I'm done here nothing more to gain.

[Pipedream]

So it was kind of a waste to hire an AD with Cohen's skill set?

What skill set is that exactly? A mediocre baseball coach?

[ShotgunDawg]

What skill set, that he was able to kiss the proper asses to get himself shoved in the AD seat by Stricks backers in pretty much a coup.

It's better to just be silent and let those around you think you're and idiot than to open your mouth and confirm it for all to see and hear. I'm done here nothing more to gain.

You seem emotional about this for some reason. Odd

[Cooterpoot]

So it was kind of a waste to hire an AD with Cohen's skill set?

He wasn?t hired for his skills. He was put there by the same people that?ll make the football decision.

[Jarius]

If the money people are the only ones who hire coaches then why aren't we mad at them instead of Cohen about the Moorhead hire? Or do they only get credit for the hires when they work out? That is how it is spun with literally every single successful major sport head coach we have ever had in my lifetime.

[Coursesuper]

If the money people are the only ones who hire coaches then why aren't we mad at them instead of Cohen about the Moorhead hire? Or do they only get credit for the hires when they work out? That is how it is spun with literally every single successful major sport head coach we have ever had in my lifetime.

Because every one of theses hires is different, this one is very different.

[timotheus]

Cohen didn't have much outside input on Joe

[ShotgunDawg]

Cohen didn't have much outside input on Joe

Is that a problem?

[timotheus]

Looks like it possible could have been from the way it looks now.

[ShotgunDawg]

Looks like it possible could have been from the way it looks now.

Not defending John but it seems like a pretty shallow group of people to think that just because he made a bad hire that his process was poor.

I'd be curious if these same boosters that want to help with the coaching search have ever made bad hires in their businesses that made them rich?

[Dawgfan77]

Y?all need to think about this..... Adidas. What candidates have an adidas contract? Howland was an adidas guy... .

[ShotgunDawg]

Y?all need to think about this..... Adidas. What candidates have an adidas contract? Howland was an adidas guy... .

Different sports though. The shoe companies line the basketball coach's pockets. So it makes sense that they would have power in the sport

I just not sure the shoe companies are as tied in with football coaches.

[OLJWales]

Has Shoop learned what happens when you ignore the S&C Program? Or do DC's just don't do that? his squad rolled into Fall wearing thongs.

[maroonmania]

Cohen has been basically removed from this process. He had his chance to make a hire on his terms and bungled it. Then went on Finebaum and sounded like a bumbling damn fool. The $ guys will make this decision and the decision on who to hire next.

So basically the same process that brought us Howland after Stricklin bungled the hire that brought us Rick Ray.

[Jarius]

Has Shoop learned what happens when you ignore the S&C Program? Or do DC's just don't do that? his squad rolled into Fall wearing thongs.

He learned what happens when you have 3 starters out out for suspension and 2 more out with injury after losing 3 first round draft picks. I mean Jesus.

[Jarius]

Because every one of theses hires is different, this one is very different.

Yes, like I said. The hires that are good are because the boosters hired them. The ones that suck are because the AD hired them. Been that way since I have been alive. Templeton got no credit for Jackie but all the blame for Croom. Stricklin gets blamed for Ray but no credit for Howland. Cohen will get all the blame for Moorhead and noCredit for whoever we hire next....or be blamed after the fact for whoever we hire next if it does not work out.

[Todd4State]

Yes, like I said. The hires that are good are because the boosters hired them. The ones that suck are because the AD hired them. Been that way since I have been alive. Templeton got no credit for Jackie but all the blame for Croom. Stricklin gets blamed for Ray but no credit for Howland. Cohen will get all the blame for Moorhead and noCredit for whoever we hire next....or be blamed after the fact for whoever we hire next if it does not work out.

That's because it has been documented that LT didn't hire Sherrill. I think he wanted Ray Perkins. He loves him some Alabama football coaches.

And hell yes he should get blamed for Croom. He had a chance to hire Jimbo Fisher and whiffed.

And Cohen should get blamed for Moorhead. He hired him.

[dawgday166]

And Cohen should get blamed for Moorhead. He hired him.

Even if he didn't he sure bragged like he was prepared in advance and ready to make a move ... saying he knew 6 months or so earlier and had been on top of it researching it. After the hire I myself drew pause when looking at the PSU performance against OSU ... but just attributed that to big disparity of talent without realizing PSU had so much talent other than Barkley. And that was just glancing through it ... not really researching it.

So I'm inclined to say Cohen didn't research it well enough IMO. And he also got conned well in the interview ... Joe can sound impressive. He a good smoke blower.

[Jarius]

That's because it has been documented that LT didn't hire Sherrill. I think he wanted Ray Perkins. He loves him some Alabama football coaches.

And hell yes he should get blamed for Croom. He had a chance to hire Jimbo Fisher and whiffed.

And Cohen should get blamed for Moorhead. He hired him.

Documented by who? I have a SI article here that talks about the 2 man search committee which Templeton was half of....what do you have except for message board people with “sources” that hate Templeton? I mean maybe I am wrong. I am open to some real evidence proving otherwise.
https://www.si.com/vault/1990/12/24/123337/what-price-glory-lusting-for-football-success-mississippi-state-hired-jackie-sherrill


I am all for blaming the right people. This idea that boosters with money only decide to hire certain coaches and let the aD hire other coaches is pretty far fetched though. If they wanted their hand in hiring Sherrill they also wanted to hire croom. Same with Moorhead and Mullen and every other big hire. People that spend that much money aren’t just sitting back so let’s stop giving them credit if we are not also going to give them blame. If they are that damn smart then they need to stop letting any AD hire anyone so we can only make super awesome hires every time.

Or we can just give Cohen all the blame when he makes a shitty hire and all the credit when he makes a good one.

[Todd4State]

Documented by who? I have a SI article here that talks about the 2 man search committee which Templeton was half of....what do you have except for message board people with “sources” that hate Templeton? I mean maybe I am wrong. I am open to some real evidence proving otherwise.
https://www.si.com/vault/1990/12/24/123337/what-price-glory-lusting-for-football-success-mississippi-state-hired-jackie-sherrill


I am all for blaming the right people. This idea that boosters with money only decide to hire certain coaches and let the aD hire other coaches is pretty far fetched though. If they wanted their hand in hiring Sherrill they also wanted to hire croom. Same with Moorhead and Mullen and every other big hire. People that spend that much money aren’t just sitting back so let’s stop giving them credit if we are not also going to give them blame. If they are that damn smart then they need to stop letting any AD hire anyone so we can only make super awesome hires every time.

Or we can just give Cohen all the blame when he makes a shitty hire and all the credit when he makes a good one.

It's written between the lines in that article:

"It wasn't that Felker was unpopular, understand. To the contrary, everyone, including those who forced his resignation, talked about his honesty, his integrity, his hard work. But some of Mississippi State's most influential boosters simply lost confidence in him after a tough 17-15 defeat at Kentucky and a 17-16 homecoming loss against Auburn. These Bulldog fans made their feelings known to Dr. Donald Zacharias, who has been State's president since 1985.
"

"You have to understand that Coach Felker resigned because supporters promised that significant amounts of money would be withheld from the university if he didn't," says Roger Easley, a professor of veterinary medicine who heads the university's faculty council. "They just want to win more, I guess."

Sherrill apparently wanted Mississippi State as badly as Zacharias and Templeton, the two-man search committee, came to want him. The car business had not been good to Sherrill. Said one Southwest Conference official, "Jackie lost his ass in the auto agency—lost in a big way. He needed a job."

There is, indeed. Even the faculty council was quiet in the wake of Sherrill's hiring, despite the fact that the administration had totally ignored the council's resolution. Chairman Easley said that the only way to interpret the professors' silence was as a vote of confidence in Zacharias's ability to judge character. "Faculty people are not sports investigators," said Easley, "and we're somewhat naive about these things."

Every job search is different. It seems to me like our boosters stay out of the way and give our AD's a chance to do their job until they show that they can't- and THEN they step in. You want to hire Rick Ray? You wan to hire Joe Moorhead? OK. But it better work out. And if it doesn't...well you're not making the next one.

I think the other big factor here is a LOT of our major boosters have always had questions about Cohen's qualifications to be the AD. Really there were no other candidates- by design by certain people. Not a lot that they can really do about it other than step in when necessary and let the kids in Starkville pretend to be awesome in their own minds.

[Todd4State]

Even if he didn't he sure bragged like he was prepared in advance and ready to make a move ... saying he knew 6 months or so earlier and had been on top of it researching it. After the hire I myself drew pause when looking at the PSU performance against OSU ... but just attributed that to big disparity of talent without realizing PSU had so much talent other than Barkley. And that was just glancing through it ... not really researching it.

So I'm inclined to say Cohen didn't research it well enough IMO. And he also got conned well in the interview ... Joe can sound impressive. He a good smoke blower.

Cohen obviously screwed up. If it's true that he bought into the "MSU formula of hiring a sitting OC/DC" that was a huge mistake. Experience is always preferred. Like with Norvell- we know that he can coach but we also know that his defense is a question mark. Because Joe had never coached above FCS there was zero way to know how he would actually run a higher level football team. Other than his word. Yeah we found Dan and that worked- but let's be honest had Byrne known that his recruiting was an issue and that he would be abysmal in big games would we have hired him knowing that going in? I don't know. But at least it would have been known. Really our "OC/DC" method has only worked once since 1985 and that was with Dan. Felker and Croom were both bad and Joe is not a fit and that's being nice.

So we should probably scrap that stupid method.

And again this goes back to inexperience as an AD.

[Cowbell]

Documented by who? I have a SI article here that talks about the 2 man search committee which Templeton was half of....what do you have except for message board people with ?sources? that hate Templeton? I mean maybe I am wrong. I am open to some real evidence proving otherwise.
https://www.si.com/vault/1990/12/24/123337/what-price-glory-lusting-for-football-success-mississippi-state-hired-jackie-sherrill


I am all for blaming the right people. This idea that boosters with money only decide to hire certain coaches and let the aD hire other coaches is pretty far fetched though. If they wanted their hand in hiring Sherrill they also wanted to hire croom. Same with Moorhead and Mullen and every other big hire. People that spend that much money aren?t just sitting back so let?s stop giving them credit if we are not also going to give them blame. If they are that damn smart then they need to stop letting any AD hire anyone so we can only make super awesome hires every time.

Or we can just give Cohen all the blame when he makes a shitty hire and all the credit when he makes a good one.

I feel like you are overthinking this. Cohen may have been allowed to do his job the first time but I dont think any of us would allow him to do it on his own again. Regardless of joes past success, it should have been obvious he wouldnt fit it in here. I realized that day one. This is where the help comes in. And all the blaming/praising comes from us as fans, most not in the know, something none of us can control.

[Jarius]

It's written between the lines in that article:

"It wasn't that Felker was unpopular, understand. To the contrary, everyone, including those who forced his resignation, talked about his honesty, his integrity, his hard work. But some of Mississippi State's most influential boosters simply lost confidence in him after a tough 17-15 defeat at Kentucky and a 17-16 homecoming loss against Auburn. These Bulldog fans made their feelings known to Dr. Donald Zacharias, who has been State's president since 1985.
"

"You have to understand that Coach Felker resigned because supporters promised that significant amounts of money would be withheld from the university if he didn't," says Roger Easley, a professor of veterinary medicine who heads the university's faculty council. "They just want to win more, I guess."

Sherrill apparently wanted Mississippi State as badly as Zacharias and Templeton, the two-man search committee, came to want him. The car business had not been good to Sherrill. Said one Southwest Conference official, "Jackie lost his ass in the auto agency—lost in a big way. He needed a job."

There is, indeed. Even the faculty council was quiet in the wake of Sherrill's hiring, despite the fact that the administration had totally ignored the council's resolution. Chairman Easley said that the only way to interpret the professors' silence was as a vote of confidence in Zacharias's ability to judge character. "Faculty people are not sports investigators," said Easley, "and we're somewhat naive about these things."

Every job search is different. It seems to me like our boosters stay out of the way and give our AD's a chance to do their job until they show that they can't- and THEN they step in. You want to hire Rick Ray? You wan to hire Joe Moorhead? OK. But it better work out. And if it doesn't...well you're not making the next one.

I think the other big factor here is a LOT of our major boosters have always had questions about Cohen's qualifications to be the AD. Really there were no other candidates- by design by certain people. Not a lot that they can really do about it other than step in when necessary and let the kids in Starkville pretend to be awesome in their own minds.

So you have no evidence. You also did not highlight Templeton’s name to make a point, which is disingenuous at best.

[ShotgunDawg]

Even if he didn't he sure bragged like he was prepared in advance and ready to make a move ... saying he knew 6 months or so earlier and had been on top of it researching it. After the hire I myself drew pause when looking at the PSU performance against OSU ... but just attributed that to big disparity of talent without realizing PSU had so much talent other than Barkley. And that was just glancing through it ... not really researching it.

So I'm inclined to say Cohen didn't research it well enough IMO. And he also got conned well in the interview ... Joe can sound impressive. He a good smoke blower.

Cohen was bamboozled on this hire. No doubt.

[Coursesuper]

Yes, like I said. The hires that are good are because the boosters hired them. The ones that suck are because the AD hired them. Been that way since I have been alive. Templeton got no credit for Jackie but all the blame for Croom. Stricklin gets blamed for Ray but no credit for Howland. Cohen will get all the blame for Moorhead and noCredit for whoever we hire next....or be blamed after the fact for whoever we hire next if it does not work out.

Your hypothesis isn't exactly correct, but from the outside looking in I can see where your coming from. There are many factors why things go the way they do but understand this is Missippy and things happen a certain way.

Cohen and two others in the Athletic department ran the show on the Moorhead hire, their guy.

Ray was all on Scott his baby all the way, Scott had zero to do with the hire of Howland other than stand there and smile like he was told to do for the press conference.

Larry had a huge part in both Jackie and Croom. Jackie was a success Croom not so much.

When things go right people think that's the way is supposed to be and when they go wrong its all your fault was a big part of Larry's problem.

Larry was around so long he pissed people off that's Larry nature. I like Larry I've known him my whole life, and people give that dumbass general the credit for moving Larry out but it was a college board member.

There is so much bullshit out there about everything, especially on these message boards its hard to know what's true what's false and bullshit that is now called fact is common place. Be happy in your ignorance its very frustrating watching this, the same thing happens over and over year after year due to ego and pettiness and usually it blows up in our face.