Arkansas implosion teaches a great lesson

[BeastMan]

I know Arkansas has a lot more money than State and Ole Miss but they are the closest thing to dealing with what we deal with in the SEC. What they've done from a hiring standpoint has totally bottomed them out and destroyed their roster. And I don't mean the coaches per se more the opposite spectrum of philosophies between staffs. I think it's up to the brass of the institution, namely the AD and president (to an extent) to determine what your identity is and hire to that identity.

What we've seen Arkansas do is go from a vertical passing attack to a power running scheme and then to a air raid spread. There is no identity and continuity schematically between hires, especially where they sit right now with upperclassman recruited to a power running scheme and underclassmen recruited to the air raid. Their roster is in no way ready for any system to come in and change it over night. They are a total rebuild no matter what scheme they hire next.

So I guess the discussion is how much should scheme and philosophy come in to play in your next hire? I think it should a lot, particularly at a MSU, OM, or Arkansas where we play a schedule where we are rarely the most talented roster in conference play. There has to be some translation between staffs. Even though we're running similar formations I think that's the number one issue with MSU at the moment. OM has gone from air raid to spread option and their offense is terrible. Look at Geoff Collins struggles at GT...

This isn't a "fire Joe" thread as much as it's a philosophical discussion of what is MSU? What is our identity and culture that should translate to staff to staff? Joe isn't going to be here forever no matter if he's run or he leaves for greener pastures so what are the attributes you want MSU to consider first and foremost?

[calidawg]

Power running spread team. Run 55-60% of the time offensively. Mullen ran the perfect system here. 2015 was the only season we didnt do it because the O line was so bad and Dak made massive improvement in pass game. We would have won 4 or 5 games in 2015 without Dak.

[Coursesuper]

What Mississippi State football needs to be about it toughness period. Regardless of scheme it need to be 60 minutes of tightening up you chinstrap hitting the other guy in the mouth football. It's what we do well, and is what will keep you in a game more often than not.

[gravedigger]

I know Arkansas has a lot more money than State and Ole Miss but they are the closest thing to dealing with what we deal with in the SEC. What they've done from a hiring standpoint has totally bottomed them out and destroyed their roster. And I don't mean the coaches per se more the opposite spectrum of philosophies between staffs. I think it's up to the brass of the institution, namely the AD and president (to an extent) to determine what your identity is and hire to that identity.

What we've seen Arkansas do is go from a vertical passing attack to a power running scheme and then to a air raid spread. There is no identity and continuity schematically between hires, especially where they sit right now with upperclassman recruited to a power running scheme and underclassmen recruited to the air raid. Their roster is in no way ready for any system to come in and change it over night. They are a total rebuild no matter what scheme they hire next.

So I guess the discussion is how much should scheme and philosophy come in to play in your next hire? I think it should a lot, particularly at a MSU, OM, or Arkansas where we play a schedule where we are rarely the most talented roster in conference play. There has to be some translation between staffs. Even though we're running similar formations I think that's the number one issue with MSU at the moment. OM has gone from air raid to spread option and their offense is terrible. Look at Geoff Collins struggles at GT...

This isn't a "fire Joe" thread as much as it's a philosophical discussion of what is MSU? What is our identity and culture that should translate to staff to staff? Joe isn't going to be here forever no matter if he's run or he leaves for greener pastures so what are the attributes you want MSU to consider first and foremost?

I dont think you can pick an offensive or defensive philosophy and narrow your candidates down that way. I think you have to interview candidates and take the most impressive leader with a good record of staff management on whatever level they have participated on.

[TrapGame]

Power Spread focusing on running the ball but a QB who can throw it accurately 20+ yards. Tough as a brick shit house mentality. And after watching the Vikings truck Dallas' LBs with a big ass FB we need to incorporate some of that as well. Hanrahan was a bad ass m'fer. Farrod Green would have made a good TE/FB hybrid when we needed him.

[BeastMan]

I dont think you can pick an offensive or defensive philosophy and narrow your candidates down that way. I think you have to interview candidates and take the most impressive leader with a good record of staff management on whatever level they have participated on.

For discussion sake only let’s say Joe leaves and we interview 10 guys, one of them being Paul Johnson, and he’s far and away the best interview and vision do you hire Paul Johnson?

[BeastMan]

Power running spread team. Run 55-60% of the time offensively. Mullen ran the perfect system here. 2015 was the only season we didnt do it because the O line was so bad and Dak made massive improvement in pass game. We would have won 4 or 5 games in 2015 without Dak.

Based on the talent we recruit in MS, AL, and LA, I think this is the right answer.

[BeastMan]

What Mississippi State football needs to be about it toughness period. Regardless of scheme it need to be 60 minutes of tightening up you chinstrap hitting the other guy in the mouth football. It's what we do well, and is what will keep you in a game more often than not.


I think you’re right about toughness. I don’t think the air raid for a specific example, breeds toughness

[dantheman4248]

For discussion sake only let’s say Joe leaves and we interview 10 guys, one of them being Paul Johnson, and he’s far and away the best interview and vision do you hire Paul Johnson?

Well I believe that we could run a kickass triple option program and seeing how much other teams struggle with the FCS ones that come in and do it, I wouldn't hate it. It's not the best option by any means but I firmly believe MSU boys could run a variation with 6-7 down lineman and 3 halfbacks with the powerful big running QBs we keep getting.

If we run paul johnson's offense last year, I think we win 11 maybe 12 games... Bama would be a tossup and the others coupled with our defense would be astounding.

[SheltonChoked]

I know Arkansas has a lot more money than State and Ole Miss but they are the closest thing to dealing with what we deal with in the SEC. What they've done from a hiring standpoint has totally bottomed them out and destroyed their roster. And I don't mean the coaches per se more the opposite spectrum of philosophies between staffs. I think it's up to the brass of the institution, namely the AD and president (to an extent) to determine what your identity is and hire to that identity.

What we've seen Arkansas do is go from a vertical passing attack to a power running scheme and then to a air raid spread. There is no identity and continuity schematically between hires, especially where they sit right now with upperclassman recruited to a power running scheme and underclassmen recruited to the air raid. Their roster is in no way ready for any system to come in and change it over night. They are a total rebuild no matter what scheme they hire next.

So I guess the discussion is how much should scheme and philosophy come in to play in your next hire? I think it should a lot, particularly at a MSU, OM, or Arkansas where we play a schedule where we are rarely the most talented roster in conference play. There has to be some translation between staffs. Even though we're running similar formations I think that's the number one issue with MSU at the moment. OM has gone from air raid to spread option and their offense is terrible. Look at Geoff Collins struggles at GT...

This isn't a "fire Joe" thread as much as it's a philosophical discussion of what is MSU? What is our identity and culture that should translate to staff to staff? Joe isn't going to be here forever no matter if he's run or he leaves for greener pastures so what are the attributes you want MSU to consider first and foremost?

This is a good point. We should be careful not to change the system too quickly.

I'm not certain a power spread is the best offense of the future of MSU in the SEC. Yes, it worked with Mullen. I just have questions about being a Power running team in a division with LSU, Alabama, Auburn, and TAMU (https://www.pacifictakes.com/2014/7/17/5913241/where-nfl-defensive-linemen-come-from-and-why-it-holds-the-pac-12-back The SEC has about 350 players in the NFL, 100 are D Line).

Offense is the name of the game now in college football. But the Elite DL talent in the SEC is a game changer.

As a counter point, it seems like the middle and low tier schools can only be elite on one side of the ball. If that's the case, maybe it plays more to MSU recruiting to get an elite defense and a above average offense.

[HancockCountyDog]

For discussion sake only let?s say Joe leaves and we interview 10 guys, one of them being Paul Johnson, and he?s far and away the best interview and vision do you hire Paul Johnson?

If you want a program where the absolute ceiling is 8 wins - then sure Paul is your guy.

He would struggle to recruit almost every position because he doesn't run a system that produces NFL talent.

It would be a terrible hire.

[BeastMan]

If you want a program where the absolute ceiling is 8 wins - then sure Paul is your guy.

He would struggle to recruit almost every position because he doesn't run a system that produces NFL talent.

It would be a terrible hire.

Agreed. And Paul Johnson also means your next hire is a full rebuild unless you’ve decided you’re running the triple option for life. I used him as an example that I think you should hire to a philosopher and scheme. What I’m essentially saying is you hire to fit.

[Maroonthirteen]

For discussion sake only let?s say Joe leaves and we interview 10 guys, one of them being Paul Johnson, and he?s far and away the best interview and vision do you hire Paul Johnson?

I think Cali nailed it. State can recruit athletes to play defense and a strong run game. It?s always been our most successful recipe.

However if we hired a triple option coach, I?m done.

[Todd4State]

I think we need to start to transition to a more balanced passing offense. LSU was a power run offense and that limited their ceiling until they changed. Power run spread has only gotten us to 8-10 wins a year. Mississippi has QB’s and WR’s in the class of 2021. Football is changing and we are getting behind. Ole Miss and USM can run offenses that can throw the ball. There is zero reason why we can’t. Other than our fans that don’t think we fans and don’t want to try or be patient enough to transition.

[TrapGame]

This is a good point. We should be careful not to change the system too quickly.

I'm not certain a power spread is the best offense of the future of MSU in the SEC. Yes, it worked with Mullen. I just have questions about being a Power running team in a division with LSU, Alabama, Auburn, and TAMU (https://www.pacifictakes.com/2014/7/17/5913241/where-nfl-defensive-linemen-come-from-and-why-it-holds-the-pac-12-back The SEC has about 350 players in the NFL, 100 are D Line).

Offense is the name of the game now in college football. But the Elite DL talent in the SEC is a game changer.

As a counter point, it seems like the middle and low tier schools can only be elite on one side of the ball. If that's the case, maybe it plays more to MSU recruiting to get an elite defense and a above average offense.

But that's where the spread part of power spread comes in. Got to have a QB that can throw it more than 20 yards with some accuracy and a couple of SEC level WRs.

[WPS]

The Arkansas offense is actually mostly Morris recruits.

QB- Morris
RB1 - Morris
RB2 - Bielema
WR1 - Morris
WR2 - Morris
WR3 - Morris
TE - Bielema
LT - Morris/Bielema (started two different guys there as season has gone on)
LG - Bielema
C - Bielema
RG - Morris
RT - Bielema

Defense is mostly Bielema holdovers but defense isn't Morris' "specialty" regardless. The thing that probably doomed him is bringing in two of "his guys" in Hicks and Starkel at QB who ended up not getting the job done.

[Fred Garvin]

I know Arkansas has a lot more money than State and Ole Miss but they are the closest thing to dealing with what we deal with in the SEC. What they've done from a hiring standpoint has totally bottomed them out and destroyed their roster. And I don't mean the coaches per se more the opposite spectrum of philosophies between staffs. I think it's up to the brass of the institution, namely the AD and president (to an extent) to determine what your identity is and hire to that identity.

What we've seen Arkansas do is go from a vertical passing attack to a power running scheme and then to a air raid spread. There is no identity and continuity schematically between hires, especially where they sit right now with upperclassman recruited to a power running scheme and underclassmen recruited to the air raid. Their roster is in no way ready for any system to come in and change it over night. They are a total rebuild no matter what scheme they hire next.

So I guess the discussion is how much should scheme and philosophy come in to play in your next hire? I think it should a lot, particularly at a MSU, OM, or Arkansas where we play a schedule where we are rarely the most talented roster in conference play. There has to be some translation between staffs. Even though we're running similar formations I think that's the number one issue with MSU at the moment. OM has gone from air raid to spread option and their offense is terrible. Look at Geoff Collins struggles at GT...

This isn't a "fire Joe" thread as much as it's a philosophical discussion of what is MSU? What is our identity and culture that should translate to staff to staff? Joe isn't going to be here forever no matter if he's run or he leaves for greener pastures so what are the attributes you want MSU to consider first and foremost?

Do we want to beat Alabama? You have to have a legitimate passing game to beat Alabama. You will not beat them by "out-toughing" them. Mullen couldn't do it without a passing game. LSU has shown once you get a passing threat, Bama can be beat. That's how Freeze beat them. I think Cohen hired Moorhead because of the passing element he thought he was getting. And you can't get the receiver you need without showing that you have an offense that will utilize them beyond blocking downfield for the running game (ala Mullen).

If you concede the Alabama element , then yes let's get coaches that can rely on the Misssissippi high school talent base.

[R2Dawg]

I know Arkansas has a lot more money than State and Ole Miss but they are the closest thing to dealing with what we deal with in the SEC. What they've done from a hiring standpoint has totally bottomed them out and destroyed their roster. And I don't mean the coaches per se more the opposite spectrum of philosophies between staffs. I think it's up to the brass of the institution, namely the AD and president (to an extent) to determine what your identity is and hire to that identity.

What we've seen Arkansas do is go from a vertical passing attack to a power running scheme and then to a air raid spread. There is no identity and continuity schematically between hires, especially where they sit right now with upperclassman recruited to a power running scheme and underclassmen recruited to the air raid. Their roster is in no way ready for any system to come in and change it over night. They are a total rebuild no matter what scheme they hire next.

So I guess the discussion is how much should scheme and philosophy come in to play in your next hire? I think it should a lot, particularly at a MSU, OM, or Arkansas where we play a schedule where we are rarely the most talented roster in conference play. There has to be some translation between staffs. Even though we're running similar formations I think that's the number one issue with MSU at the moment. OM has gone from air raid to spread option and their offense is terrible. Look at Geoff Collins struggles at GT...

This isn't a "fire Joe" thread as much as it's a philosophical discussion of what is MSU? What is our identity and culture that should translate to staff to staff? Joe isn't going to be here forever no matter if he's run or he leaves for greener pastures so what are the attributes you want MSU to consider first and foremost?

Agree with that for the most part. If you are going to change the culture type team/program, you need to have a reason and need to know that up front. Either Moorhead wasn't honest about that or changed his mind or something or we didn't probe him good enough. We went from don't have to build anything to we got to build it from ground up with same coach??

Another point with Ark and maybe others. If you don't have the right guy in sight then be careful firing too quick. Belima may not have been the best but he was better than Morris. A wrong hire can sink your program further than anyone can imagine.

[OLJWales]

What Mississippi State football needs to be about it toughness period. Regardless of scheme it need to be 60 minutes of tightening up you chinstrap hitting the other guy in the mouth football. It's what we do well, and is what will keep you in a game more often than not.

Yep, and thanks to a piss poor S&C coach / program, we are not able to to that this year and it's too late to fix that mid / late season. We will suck for the remainder of the year and with luck, we'll win 2 more and get to a shitty bowl. If we get to the bowl game, chances are we keep Joe another year because that would involve a season ending Egg Bowl win. 2 things need to happen though IMO if that materializes.

1. Joe understands the shitiness of the S&C coach / program and fixes it.

2. Cohen makes contract changes with Joe that makes it cheaper to fire his ass if this shit continues.

[BeastMan]

The Arkansas offense is actually mostly Morris recruits.

QB- Morris
RB1 - Morris
RB2 - Bielema
WR1 - Morris
WR2 - Morris
WR3 - Morris
TE - Bielema
LT - Morris/Bielema (started two different guys there as season has gone on)
LG - Bielema
C - Bielema
RG - Morris
RT - Bielema

Defense is mostly Bielema holdovers but defense isn't Morris' "specialty" regardless. The thing that probably doomed him is bringing in two of "his guys" in Hicks and Starkel at QB who ended up not getting the job done.

Right. The roster is incredibly unbalanced because of 2 very specific and different recruiting strategies. That’s what I’m saying. Morris inherited players he can’t do anything with. What is Arkansas’s identity going forward?

[DownwardDawg]

The Gus Malzahn offense. Especially the one he ran a few years ago. I can?t ever remember his players names but he had a rushing QB that was pretty damn accurate too and big powerful RB?s. That?s who we are. That?s the type players that come out of Mississippi. Not much different than what Mullen ran but with much more creative play calling.

[MetEdDawg]

The Arkansas offense is actually mostly Morris recruits.

QB- Morris
RB1 - Morris
RB2 - Bielema
WR1 - Morris
WR2 - Morris
WR3 - Morris
TE - Bielema
LT - Morris/Bielema (started two different guys there as season has gone on)
LG - Bielema
C - Bielema
RG - Morris
RT - Bielema

Defense is mostly Bielema holdovers but defense isn't Morris' "specialty" regardless. The thing that probably doomed him is bringing in two of "his guys" in Hicks and Starkel at QB who ended up not getting the job done.

What doomed him is that the majority of his starters are guys he recruited and he was in year 2. Unless you are recruiting majority top tier talent, it's not a good thing to be in year 2 and have guys you recruited playing a ton of snaps. There are only 2 or 3 schools in the SEC that can get away with playing a lot of youth. Bama and LSU are the only 2 that can consistently do it.

[DownwardDawg]

I think we need to start to transition to a more balanced passing offense. LSU was a power run offense and that limited their ceiling until they changed. Power run spread has only gotten us to 8-10 wins a year. Mississippi has QB?s and WR?s in the class of 2021. Football is changing and we are getting behind. Ole Miss and USM can run offenses that can throw the ball. There is zero reason why we can?t. Other than our fans that don?t think we fans and don?t want to try or be patient enough to transition.

Well, I certainly understand your point, but that?s what Moorehead is trying and so far it looks like a train wreck.
Also, I think we would actually get ahead by sticking with our old identity, especially while everyone else is getting away from it. It will turn back around. Coaches get caught up in what other teams are doing. Bama doesn?t need to run the offense they do now. They just choose to. A dominant D along with smash mouth type offense will still work. Just gotta have the right players.

[OLJWales]

Arkansas thrived on TX Talent for a LONG damned time but these TX H.S. players have more options these days. AR H.S. talent just ain't enough to field an SEC team. Fayetteville and Knokville have similar probs these days due to the dominance of the black athlete IMO. Those towns are so lacking in diversity.

MSU has IMO, something they need to take advantage of in that we are the most ethnically diverse school in the SEC. Or am I wrong? I thought I read that somewhere a while back. just saying.

[MetEdDawg]

Arkansas thrived on TX Talent for a LONG damned time but these TX H.S. players have more options these days. AR H.S. talent just ain't enough to field an SEC team. Fayetteville and Knokville have similar probs these days due to the dominance of the black athlete IMO. Those towns are so lacking in diversity.

MSU has IMO, something they need to take advantage of in that we are the most ethnically diverse school in the SEC. Or am I wrong? I thought I read that somewhere a while back. just saying.

Arkansas has two 4 stars in the entire state this year for 2020. The days of some of that top tier Arkansas talent coming out are gone. Arkansas football is a shell of what it was a decade ago. And with texas A&M having the SEC influence they are going to go in and take some of what the state of Arkansas is offering

[Todd4State]

Well, I certainly understand your point, but that?s what Moorehead is trying and so far it looks like a train wreck.
Also, I think we would actually get ahead by sticking with our old identity, especially while everyone else is getting away from it. It will turn back around. Coaches get caught up in what other teams are doing. Bama doesn?t need to run the offense they do now. They just choose to. A dominant D along with smash mouth type offense will still work. Just gotta have the right players.

Alabama and LSU can transition much more easily than we can because of the talent that they both have. For us it will take a couple of years. Dan failing at recruiting WR and OL didn’t help either. Or running an offense where it basically eliminated getting Gardner Minchew.

We really need to have a coach that is flexible to recruit what the state produces from a year to year basis because it’s never consistent. One year there will be a ton of receivers then dry for a few years.

[BrunswickDawg]

Do we want to beat Alabama? You have to have a legitimate passing game to beat Alabama. You will not beat them by "out-toughing" them. Mullen couldn't do it without a passing game. LSU has shown once you get a passing threat, Bama can be beat. That's how Freeze beat them. I think Cohen hired Moorhead because of the passing element he thought he was getting. And you can't get the receiver you need without showing that you have an offense that will utilize them beyond blocking downfield for the running game (ala Mullen).

If you concede the Alabama element , then yes let's get coaches that can rely on the Misssissippi high school talent base.

I think you can run a power spread offense and still have a passing attack that is viable enough to beat Bama. And I think we have had enough passing since 2013 to be able to do it. That being said, what failed us with Dan was his conservative nature in the big games - the same issue he is having at Florida. In those big games you have to be ready to throw the kitchen sink at Bama (or UGA) - and Dan never takes that approach in big games.

And I think the power spread does fit the culture well at MSU, but doesn't fit at OM. For whatever reason, OM always seems to be better when they are a pass first offense. They rarely seem to be able to get the type RBs and OL we do, but over the past 30 years always have seemed to be able to cobble together a decent QB and WR. That's why I think long-term, Rich Rod's offense and Ealy/Plumlee running like the do doesn't fit OM and won't get them much further than where they are rihght now.

[SheltonChoked]

But that's where the spread part of power spread comes in. Got to have a QB that can throw it more than 20 yards with some accuracy and a couple of SEC level WRs.

So Joe Moorhead's offense?

But with SEC Wide Receivers?

[TrapGame]

So Joe Moorhead's offense?

But with SEC Wide Receivers?

LOL, all Joe's offense does is spread chaos. He ain't spreading shit.

[OLJWales]

LOL, all Joe's offense does is spread chaos. He ain't spreading shit.

Nice.

[Coach34]

Outstanding thread topic. Dan Mullen got it right at Miss State and that is the blueprint for getting it done at State.

We are not the sexy school that will attract top 10 recruiting classes. We aren't the party school that will attract some top talent. So what do we have to do?

1. Recruit Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama well. Keep as much top tier talent as we can in Mississippi and then sign some of the guys Bama, Auburn, and LSU just don't have room for

2. Find those diamonds that are all over Miss, Alabama, and Louisiana. There are 3-4 diamonds to be had every recruiting year in that footprint.

3. Do a better job than Mullen recruiting WR's. When were we good enough to contend with Bama? When we had Dak, Ross, JRob, Wilson, and the other Fred. Ross was the only 4-star of the group- but all of them were damn good college football players. Mullen never could seem to get groups together like that except 2013-2015. Hevesy telling WR recruits the 1st thing they were going to learn to do was block- so that didn't help WR recruiting at all. If Mullen recruits just a little better at WR- 2017 and 2018 teams contend in the West. So that tells me the rest was where we needed it to be.

4. Power Spread. Your recruiting footprint and the WR talent you can pull to Sville will never allow you to be a Slang-It type of team. It's not happening. Find another Dak, Fitz, and the like and put decent WR's around them- along with good talent in the trenches that we can surely acquire- and State can contend. Bang on Fitz all you want- Ross caught 70 passes from him in a season. Ross is a legit college WR.

That is what you need to do at State. You match your coach to your recruiting footprint- because ours is what it is.

[DownwardDawg]

Outstanding thread topic. Dan Mullen got it right at Miss State and that is the blueprint for getting it done at State.

We are not the sexy school that will attract top 10 recruiting classes. We aren't the party school that will attract some top talent. So what do we have to do?

1. Recruit Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama well. Keep as much top tier talent as we can in Mississippi and then sign some of the guys Bama, Auburn, and LSU just don't have room for

2. Find those diamonds that are all over Miss, Alabama, and Louisiana. There are 3-4 diamonds to be had every recruiting year in that footprint.

3. Do a better job than Mullen recruiting WR's. When were we good enough to contend with Bama? When we had Dak, Ross, JRob, Wilson, and the other Fred. Ross was the only 4-star of the group- but all of them were damn good college football players. Mullen never could seem to get groups together like that except 2013-2015. Hevesy telling WR recruits the 1st thing they were going to learn to do was block- so that didn't help WR recruiting at all. If Mullen recruits just a little better at WR- 2017 and 2018 teams contend in the West. So that tells me the rest was where we needed it to be.

4. Power Spread. Your recruiting footprint and the WR talent you can pull to Sville will never allow you to be a Slang-It type of team. It's not happening. Find another Dak, Fitz, and the like and put decent WR's around them- along with good talent in the trenches that we can surely acquire- and State can contend. Bang on Fitz all you want- Ross caught 70 passes from him in a season. Ross is a legit college WR.

That is what you need to do at State. You match your coach to your recruiting footprint- because ours is what it is.


I agree with this all day long.

[TrapGame]

Outstanding thread topic. Dan Mullen got it right at Miss State and that is the blueprint for getting it done at State.

We are not the sexy school that will attract top 10 recruiting classes. We aren't the party school that will attract some top talent. So what do we have to do?

1. Recruit Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama well. Keep as much top tier talent as we can in Mississippi and then sign some of the guys Bama, Auburn, and LSU just don't have room for

2. Find those diamonds that are all over Miss, Alabama, and Louisiana. There are 3-4 diamonds to be had every recruiting year in that footprint.

3. Do a better job than Mullen recruiting WR's. When were we good enough to contend with Bama? When we had Dak, Ross, JRob, Wilson, and the other Fred. Ross was the only 4-star of the group- but all of them were damn good college football players. Mullen never could seem to get groups together like that except 2013-2015. Hevesy telling WR recruits the 1st thing they were going to learn to do was block- so that didn't help WR recruiting at all. If Mullen recruits just a little better at WR- 2017 and 2018 teams contend in the West. So that tells me the rest was where we needed it to be.

4. Power Spread. Your recruiting footprint and the WR talent you can pull to Sville will never allow you to be a Slang-It type of team. It's not happening. Find another Dak, Fitz, and the like and put decent WR's around them- along with good talent in the trenches that we can surely acquire- and State can contend. Bang on Fitz all you want- Ross caught 70 passes from him in a season. Ross is a legit college WR.

That is what you need to do at State. You match your coach to your recruiting footprint- because ours is what it is.

YEP!

This isn't rocket science.

[msugolf]

For discussion sake only let?s say Joe leaves and we interview 10 guys, one of them being Paul Johnson, and he?s far and away the best interview and vision do you hire Paul Johnson?

There wouldn't be any need to follow recruiting anymore since nobody worth a damn would want to play in that offense. And watching that offense is sort of fun when you aren't a fan of the school but having to endure it every weekend? No thanks.

[BeastMan]

There wouldn't be any need to follow recruiting anymore since nobody worth a damn would want to play in that offense. And watching that offense is sort of fun when you aren't a fan of the school but having to endure it every weekend? No thanks.

You gotta read the response that I responded to with that post. I wasn’t advocating for Paul Johnson. I was making a point

[BeastMan]

Outstanding thread topic. Dan Mullen got it right at Miss State and that is the blueprint for getting it done at State.

We are not the sexy school that will attract top 10 recruiting classes. We aren't the party school that will attract some top talent. So what do we have to do?

1. Recruit Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama well. Keep as much top tier talent as we can in Mississippi and then sign some of the guys Bama, Auburn, and LSU just don't have room for

2. Find those diamonds that are all over Miss, Alabama, and Louisiana. There are 3-4 diamonds to be had every recruiting year in that footprint.

3. Do a better job than Mullen recruiting WR's. When were we good enough to contend with Bama? When we had Dak, Ross, JRob, Wilson, and the other Fred. Ross was the only 4-star of the group- but all of them were damn good college football players. Mullen never could seem to get groups together like that except 2013-2015. Hevesy telling WR recruits the 1st thing they were going to learn to do was block- so that didn't help WR recruiting at all. If Mullen recruits just a little better at WR- 2017 and 2018 teams contend in the West. So that tells me the rest was where we needed it to be.

4. Power Spread. Your recruiting footprint and the WR talent you can pull to Sville will never allow you to be a Slang-It type of team. It's not happening. Find another Dak, Fitz, and the like and put decent WR's around them- along with good talent in the trenches that we can surely acquire- and State can contend. Bang on Fitz all you want- Ross caught 70 passes from him in a season. Ross is a legit college WR.

That is what you need to do at State. You match your coach to your recruiting footprint- because ours is what it is.

Nailed it and that’s exactly what I was asking. Great answer. I think that style of football breads toughness as well and that’s what we have to have.

[msugolf]

You gotta read the response that I responded to with that post. I wasn?t advocating for Paul Johnson. I was making a point

Yeah I saw it after I posted. Made the mistake of pausing my post for a while and after I replied it refreshed with all the latest replies.

[BeastMan]

Yeah I saw it after I posted. Made the mistake of pausing my post for a while and after I replied it refreshed with all the latest replies.

I might be stupid and crazy but not that stupid and crazy

[msugolf]

I might be stupid and crazy but not that stupid and crazy

His offense fits what our mentality has been and what our region produces. Plus he's a realistic candidate with experience already in the southeast.

[gravedigger]

For discussion sake only let’s say Joe leaves and we interview 10 guys, one of them being Paul Johnson, and he’s far and away the best interview and vision do you hire Paul Johnson?

You certainly do with a stipulation that his offense must be more dynamic than the wishbone due to recruiting. It can certainly have it as an element. All the RPO is at its core is the veer which is an inverted wishbone. Rehiring Mullen wouldn?t be much different.

I don?t think the wishbone offense or the triple option is a good thing either, but interviews aren?t in a vacuum. Many things can be considered. If he is far and away the most impressive and you select someone else, THAT is a problem.

[Lord McBuckethead]

I think Cali nailed it. State can recruit athletes to play defense and a strong run game. It?s always been our most successful recipe.

However if we hired a triple option coach, I?m done.

Our most successful recipe hasn't won a damn thing. Sure its good to win A game, but we need to look bigger picture than one game or a few games. I still believe, that a system like Moorhead's could get us to another level. We always recruit good LBs, DL, and bad ass running backs. But that doesn't, in my mind, mean that should be our goal with our team. For the past 25 years, that shit didn't work.

The most paramount thing is, being damn tough.

[Todd4State]

Our most successful recipe hasn't won a damn thing. Sure its good to win A game, but we need to look bigger picture than one game or a few games. I still believe, that a system like Moorhead's could get us to another level. We always recruit good LBs, DL, and bad ass running backs. But that doesn't, in my mind, mean that should be our goal with our team. For the past 25 years, that shit didn't work.

The most paramount thing is, being damn tough.

I think there is the misconception that a team that throws it around a lot isn't tough.

LSU and Alabama both have more pass attempts than rushes at this point. I would say both are very physical teams. Dan's team this year also has more pass attempts than rushes as well. Of course their 68% completion percentage isn't likely to be sustainable over the long run.

This year we have 372 rush attempts compared to 224 pass attempts this year and are soft.

Being physical come from the coach- not the scheme itself.

The solution is get the very best players in Mississippi. Which is another reason to be balanced because when Dan was here I'm 100% sure that his run first philosophy was used against us in recruiting WR's. Compounded by the extraordinary laziness that his staff had in recruiting. Since Joe has been here- we have three four star WR recruits committed. So yes, we can recruit them and get them. But we have to be attractive and not lazy. We also have a four star RB committed as well and our o-line recruiting has improved since Joe came on board as well too.

It may not be popular to say- but I like the direction that we're going in as far as acquiring talent. Whether Joe coaches them or not remains to be seen.

[Maroonthirteen]

Well.... I’ll give Moorhead credit for bringing in Shrader. I would not guessed State could Land a 4 star QB from Out of state. He will continue to have to do that to build any type of program with his offense.

My comments are more directed at the type player State lands more so than a specific offense. State can get enough athletes from all over the southeast to build a physical and fast defense. Then build from
There. Have a ground andpound or air raid. Don’t care, just have a tough defense every year.

[dantheman4248]

Well.... I’ll give Moorhead credit for bringing in Shrader. I would not guessed State could Land a 4 star QB from Out of state. He will continue to have to do that to build any type of program with his offense.

My comments are more directed at the type player State lands more so than a specific offense. State can get enough athletes from all over the southeast to build a physical and fast defense. Then build from
There. Have a ground andpound or air raid. Don’t care, just have a tough defense every year.

So do we give Moorhead credit for Mayden too or is that Mullen? Cause he's a 4* OOS QB...

[bluelightstar]

So do we give Moorhead credit for Mayden too or is that Mullen? Cause he's a 4* OOS QB...

So was KT actually. We've signed multiple 4-star QBs recently.

[dantheman4248]

So was KT actually. We've signed multiple 4-star QBs recently.

But he's a WR who can't run this system and quit on the team so he doesn't count. ****

[Maroonthirteen]

A 4* that can actually pass with accuracy. A pocket QBs that can solve differential equations while under a pass rush

Mayden needs to move to safety or OLb yesterday.

[bluelightstar]

A 4* that can actually pass with accuracy. A pocket QBs that can solve differential equations while under a pass rush

Mayden needs to move to safety or OLb yesterday.

Ah, there go the goalposts

[dantheman4248]

Ah, there go the goalposts

Yep. Even called it sarcastically beforehand.

[dawgs]

You certainly do with a stipulation that his offense must be more dynamic than the wishbone due to recruiting. It can certainly have it as an element. All the RPO is at its core is the veer which is an inverted wishbone. Rehiring Mullen wouldn?t be much different.

I don?t think the wishbone offense or the triple option is a good thing either, but interviews aren?t in a vacuum. Many things can be considered. If he is far and away the most impressive and you select someone else, THAT is a problem.

By the time he'd be able to shed the reputation (since that's what matters on the crootin' trail), he'd be too far behind the 8-ball. He also hasn't proven he can win playing a non-traditional triple option offense.

[Maroonthirteen]

Yep. Even called it sarcastically beforehand.

Say what you mean instead of sarcasm. What you don’t get, I’m not defending Moorhead’s offense. If that’s what you think..... no idea.

[dawgs]

Mullen's system was fine and probably our best shot to make waves consistently. That said, mullen s conservative approach with that system capped us. We always reacted and were never forcing the issue. We never really tried to go up tempo to keep the defense on their heels, which is where less talented teams can catch more talented teams off balance and land some punches. Instead, we'd putter around until the play clock was under 5 seconds, letting the defense catch their breath, get in position, read the formation, etc. that's tough to do when the offense is running a play 10-15 seconds after the previous one.

[dantheman4248]

Say what you mean instead of sarcasm. What you don’t get, I’m not defending Moorhead’s offense. If that’s what you think..... no idea.

You literally said "I would not guessed State could Land a 4 star QB from Out of state."

We provided two examples that Mullen did.

I sarcastically made a comment about moving the goalposts.

You then literally moved the goalposts.

[Really Clark?]

Mullen's system was fine and probably our best shot to make waves consistently. That said, mullen s conservative approach with that system capped us. We always reacted and were never forcing the issue. We never really tried to go up tempo to keep the defense on their heels, which is where less talented teams can catch more talented teams off balance and land some punches. Instead, we'd putter around until the play clock was under 5 seconds, letting the defense catch their breath, get in position, read the formation, etc. that's tough to do when the offense is running a play 10-15 seconds after the previous one.

Did you watch our games under Mullen? Or talking about not getting a play off until 5 seconds now under Moorehead? Because we were one of the faster tempo teams in country during Mullen’s last half here

[dawgs]

Did you watch our games under Mullen? Or talking about not getting a play off until 5 seconds now under Moorehead? Because we were one of the faster tempo teams in country during Mullen’s last half here

2014 we peaked at 16th most plays per game. 2017 we were 27th. Other than those 2 seasons we were outside the top 50. I'm sure there's other metrics out there too and plays per game isn't a perfect measure, but it's sufficient to show a few things:

1) Mullen's best seasons were also his fastest tempo seasons

2) even our peak tempo wasn't elite and other years we were below average

3) we were never "one of the faster tempo teams in the country"

[Really Clark?]

2014 we peaked at 16th most plays per game. 2017 we were 27th. Other than those 2 seasons we were outside the top 50. I'm sure there's other metrics out there too and plays per game isn't a perfect measure, but it's sufficient to show a few things:

1) Mullen's best seasons were also his fastest tempo seasons

2) even our peak tempo wasn't elite and other years we were below average

3) we were never "one of the faster tempo teams in the country"

Can’t find the actual seconds per play for every season but as to 2014 we were 14th in seconds per play just 3.2 seconds behind Baylor who was 1st. That’s is definitely one of the fastest teams in the country and elite.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-football/2015/5/15/8586169/hurry-up-offense-fastest-slowest

2016 31st at 23.3 seconds

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FZBMbxtBrwh-G4Dh-Czz-lRkOLuOEAjRgBfvldp6MmI/htmlview

The below article specifically mentions Mullen and us playing fast most years.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.footballstudyhall.com/platform/amp/2016/11/7/13549506/college-football-tempo-pace-increasing

So we were consistently one of the faster tempo teams in the country. Not sure why you think different. However the pace overall has slowed down the last few years as defenses and coordinators have adjusted to the up tempo.

[DownwardDawg]

Mullen's system was fine and probably our best shot to make waves consistently. That said, mullen s conservative approach with that system capped us. We always reacted and were never forcing the issue. We never really tried to go up tempo to keep the defense on their heels, which is where less talented teams can catch more talented teams off balance and land some punches. Instead, we'd putter around until the play clock was under 5 seconds, letting the defense catch their breath, get in position, read the formation, etc. that's tough to do when the offense is running a play 10-15 seconds after the previous one.

Yep. He had a great system. We just needed a better coach. Instead, we went backwards.

[DownwardDawg]

Can’t find the actual seconds per play for every season but as to 2014 we were 14th in seconds per play just 3.2 seconds behind Baylor who was 1st. That’s is definitely one of the fastest teams in the country and elite.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-football/2015/5/15/8586169/hurry-up-offense-fastest-slowest

2016 31st at 23.3 seconds

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FZBMbxtBrwh-G4Dh-Czz-lRkOLuOEAjRgBfvldp6MmI/htmlview

The below article specifically mentions Mullen and us playing fast most years.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.footballstudyhall.com/platform/amp/2016/11/7/13549506/college-football-tempo-pace-increasing

So we were consistently one of the faster tempo teams in the country. Not sure why you think different. However the pace overall has slowed down the last few years as defenses and coordinators have adjusted to the up tempo.

Stats are fine and good, but watching the games we never went fast when we really needed to go fast. Auburn does that as good as anyone. We would go up tempo some, but then we would go slow at some of the most inopportune times.

[MedDawg]

For discussion sake only let?s say Joe leaves and we interview 10 guys, one of them being Paul Johnson, and he?s far and away the best interview and vision do you hire Paul Johnson?

He did go 2-0 against Mullen/MSU.

[Maroonthirteen]

You literally said "I would not guessed State could Land a 4 star QB from Out of state."

We provided two examples that Mullen did.

I sarcastically made a comment about moving the goalposts.

You then literally moved the goalposts.

Yeah, TBH you got me there on recruiting rankings. That’s a terrible metric to use on my part to support the argument. Obviously there are 4 star bust every year.
To 4 star potential.

[dantheman4248]

Yeah, TBH you got me there on recruiting rankings. That’s a terrible metric to use on my part to support the argument. Obviously there are 4 star bust every year.
To 4 star potential.

All GS has really done this season is beaten a very bad kentucky team. Yea, he's looked decent and made some plays, but if we're being realistic to this point he's not much ahead of where Key was after '17 Egg and Bowl Game. Bit more accurate on Shrader's part but it's hard to say Key is just a bust when the offensive system we are running turned Nick Fitzgerald from a blown call away vs. beating eventual Champion Alabama to 7, 6, 3, and 0. This system is turning a lot of QBs bad. Is it bad recruiting or bad coaching..?